Comments on: Nurturing the Embers of Rangzen http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/ Jamyang Norbu's blog Tue, 07 Oct 2008 01:06:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: BODGYALO http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-568 BODGYALO Sun, 11 May 2008 21:04:24 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-568 Religion was the cause that we lost our country. If we had more soldiers not monks, if we had more schools not monasteries, if we had more educated people, not aristocrats. No more religion mixed politics. NOW, ONLY ONE PERSON CAN BE OUR LEADER WHO CAN UNITE ALL THE TIBETAN POEPLE. THE ONE WHO DOESNT HAVE ANY RELIGION. ONLY HE CAN UNITE TIBETAN WITH DIFFERENT RELIGION AND NON-RELIGION TIBETAN. THEN WE CAN WORK TOWARD FREE TIBET. Religion was the cause that we lost our country. If we had more soldiers not monks, if we had more schools not monasteries, if we had more educated people, not aristocrats.

No more religion mixed politics. NOW, ONLY ONE PERSON CAN BE OUR LEADER WHO CAN UNITE ALL THE TIBETAN POEPLE. THE ONE WHO DOESNT HAVE ANY RELIGION. ONLY HE CAN UNITE TIBETAN WITH DIFFERENT RELIGION AND NON-RELIGION TIBETAN. THEN WE CAN WORK TOWARD FREE TIBET.

]]> By: Pema Thinley http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-459 Pema Thinley Thu, 08 May 2008 09:46:15 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-459 Tsering Choedonlak, It seems to me that you are having a good time when others are actively participating in their non-violent struggle for Tibet. Take the examples of Tibetans everywhere, who are voicing their concern for Tibet against the chinese atrocities. You still think the Tibetan people are simply relaxing and doing nothing? And then, when it comes to discrimination in your settlement, I think the people over there should realize the harmful effects it has on Tibet's cause and stop worshipping it. That's all they have to do. Of course they are people, who are really poor and worship the deity for their financial needs. In this case, my prayer and kindness is with them. Otherwise they have to do away with it to get better treatment. Tsering Choedonlak,

It seems to me that you are having a good time when others are actively participating in their non-violent struggle for Tibet. Take the examples of Tibetans everywhere, who are voicing their concern for Tibet against the chinese atrocities. You still think the Tibetan people are simply relaxing and doing nothing?

And then, when it comes to discrimination in your settlement, I think the people over there should realize the harmful effects it has on Tibet’s cause and stop worshipping it. That’s all they have to do. Of course they are people, who are really poor and worship the deity for their financial needs. In this case, my prayer and kindness is with them. Otherwise they have to do away with it to get better treatment.

]]> By: CHIME http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-446 CHIME Wed, 07 May 2008 17:56:37 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-446 RICHLAK All thoser unrelated blogs are related to Tibet and it's people. RICHLAK
All thoser unrelated blogs are related to Tibet and it’s people.

]]> By: Rich http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-422 Rich Tue, 06 May 2008 10:10:57 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-422 It's frustrating to see this blog getting filled with off-topic subjects like Shugden-worship. To begin with, I respect people's religious beliefs and whatever choice of deities they may wish to worship. But it seems that in recent years, a number of malicious outsiders - both Chinese and also injis - have exploited certain tenets of Shugden practice to attack the unifying political work which HHDL and other Tibetan leaders across the political and religious spectra have worked so hard for. In particular, the dubious rule that Gelukpa must refrain from all contact with teachers and texts from the older traditions (reportedly under penalty of death) stands to create religious strife and tension and seems to preclude unified political struggle. The Chinese have carefully accentuated this aspect of Shugden practice with the hopes of sowing intolerance, and have also taken advantage of the TGIE's unstrategic responses to blame the sowing of intolerance on Tibetans. None of this helps anyone's interests...except the Chinese. In my view, the most important thing to remember is that the demands for dignity, basic freedom, a life free of constant fear, and expulsion of a violent hostile foreign military occupation must always come first. In the end, no one benefits from collaborating with the world's most-criminal nation. As long as those pushing this noble struggle forwards hold in their hearts and live by the ideals of democracy, tolerance, and social justice, respecting and even encouraging the expression of dissenting viewpoints, there will be the necessary political room and process to address other conflicts in a civil manner as they arise. It’s frustrating to see this blog getting filled with off-topic subjects like Shugden-worship. To begin with, I respect people’s religious beliefs and whatever choice of deities they may wish to worship. But it seems that in recent years, a number of malicious outsiders - both Chinese and also injis - have exploited certain tenets of Shugden practice to attack the unifying political work which HHDL and other Tibetan leaders across the political and religious spectra have worked so hard for. In particular, the dubious rule that Gelukpa must refrain from all contact with teachers and texts from the older traditions (reportedly under penalty of death) stands to create religious strife and tension and seems to preclude unified political struggle. The Chinese have carefully accentuated this aspect of Shugden practice with the hopes of sowing intolerance, and have also taken advantage of the TGIE’s unstrategic responses to blame the sowing of intolerance on Tibetans. None of this helps anyone’s interests…except the Chinese.

In my view, the most important thing to remember is that the demands for dignity, basic freedom, a life free of constant fear, and expulsion of a violent hostile foreign military occupation must always come first. In the end, no one benefits from collaborating with the world’s most-criminal nation. As long as those pushing this noble struggle forwards hold in their hearts and live by the ideals of democracy, tolerance, and social justice, respecting and even encouraging the expression of dissenting viewpoints, there will be the necessary political room and process to address other conflicts in a civil manner as they arise.

]]> By: Tsering Choedon http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-412 Tsering Choedon Tue, 06 May 2008 02:43:25 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-412 Buchungla, I agree with you. I think there is a need to seperate religion and politics. One thing that we the average people might be able to do is to spearhead a movement to make our government accountable for politacal blunders that they make in the name of religion. As a first step, we should pressure our government to make a public announcement to the effect: 1. Everone has the right to believe in what ever religion/sect they wish to believe in. 2. TGIE was wrong in pressuring shugden worshippers to abondon their belief 3. Make sure that the announcement is heard by each and every Tibetan, especially in the settlements, where the descrimination against Shugden worshippers is most evident. Buchungla,

I agree with you.
I think there is a need to seperate religion and politics.

One thing that we the average people might be able to do is to spearhead a movement to make our government accountable for politacal blunders that they make in the name of religion.
As a first step, we should pressure our government to make a public announcement to the effect:
1. Everone has the right to believe in what ever religion/sect they wish to believe in.
2. TGIE was wrong in pressuring shugden worshippers to abondon their belief
3. Make sure that the announcement is heard by each and every Tibetan, especially in the settlements, where the descrimination against Shugden worshippers is most evident.

]]> By: Lhanzin http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-410 Lhanzin Tue, 06 May 2008 02:23:25 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-410 Tsering Choedonla, You said it!Thank you for expressing something that so many of us feel.Jamyang Norbula is a patriot of such high calibre that not suprisingly he was the only one who openly voiced that the diety issue was divisive.It is something that is tearing us apart from the inside,the last thing we need at this critical period.We must put Tibet first and nothing must distract us from this! Tsering Choedonla,
You said it!Thank you for expressing something that
so many of us feel.Jamyang Norbula is a patriot of such high calibre that not suprisingly he was the only one who openly voiced that the diety issue was divisive.It is something that is tearing us apart from the inside,the last thing we need at this critical period.We must put Tibet first and nothing must distract us from this!

]]> By: Bhuchungla http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-406 Bhuchungla Mon, 05 May 2008 22:35:04 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-406 That is the problem with our leaders. Our leader should resolve this issue asap so that we all can work together toward free Tibet. Dont you get it???? People can believe whatever they want, that is called Religion freedom. Unless this issue is solved, Tibetan cannot be united. For the greater benefit of Tibetan people at most critical moment, religion is not our concern but our country. We all fighting for our country not for Buddha. Those religion mixed politics had gone away. That is the problem with our leaders. Our leader should resolve this issue asap so that we all can work together toward free Tibet. Dont you get it???? People can believe whatever they want, that is called Religion freedom. Unless this issue is solved, Tibetan cannot be united. For the greater benefit of Tibetan people at most critical moment, religion is not our concern but our country. We all fighting for our country not for Buddha. Those religion mixed politics had gone away.

]]> By: Bhuchung http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-401 Bhuchung Mon, 05 May 2008 15:31:46 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-401 Hi Tashi Dhondup, I am one of tibetan who used to think may be the Dalai Lama made mistake by taking a firmed stand against tibetan Shugden practioners. Now seeing yours linked video it really made me believe what he meant the practice is harmful to the tibetan cause. How cheap and means are these practioner? Specially in such critical period every sa lha, yul lha, shi dak, sung ma and spirits of Tibet should be working towards benefits of Tibet. Though I saw most of these protesters are Injis with few tibetan among them. In critical time we have to be very clear where you want to stand, this happen even in the most democratic country of this world. Hi Tashi Dhondup,

I am one of tibetan who used to think may be the Dalai Lama made mistake by taking a firmed stand against tibetan Shugden practioners. Now seeing yours linked video it really made me believe what he meant the practice is harmful to the tibetan cause. How cheap and means are these practioner? Specially in such critical period every sa lha, yul lha, shi dak, sung ma and spirits of Tibet should be working towards benefits of Tibet. Though I saw most of these protesters are Injis with few tibetan among them. In critical time we have to be very clear where you want to stand, this happen even in the most democratic country of this world.

]]> By: Tsering Choedon http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-400 Tsering Choedon Mon, 05 May 2008 14:07:17 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-400 I am not a Shugden worshipper, but I have seen the descrimination against Shugden worshippers in my settlement. I find it extremely disturbing. The way I see it, this was a blunder created by our own government. I think: 1. Religion is a creation of the human mind. 2. Likewise, all the gods and dieties and spirits are a creation of our mind, an abstract notion. 3. How can something as abstract as a sungma (diety) effect the Tibetan cause and Tibet policy in a negative way? 4. When we have so many other more objective and more pressing issues to take care of, where was the need for our government, especially HHDL, to go and create another problem? 5. The world will laugh at us to think that when we are fighting a life and death battle for the very existance of our nation, our leader had to create an issue something as non-existant (objectively) as a shugden. 5. This situation is especially grave given the current situation of Tibet, when it is of paramount importance that we all unite together to fight our common enemy. This is not the time for communal rifts and divisions. And to think that our own government has created this is unbelievable. I think the Tibetan government should publicly apoligise to all the shugden worshippers. I am not a Shugden worshipper, but I have seen the descrimination against Shugden worshippers in my settlement.
I find it extremely disturbing.
The way I see it, this was a blunder created by our own government. I think:
1. Religion is a creation of the human mind.
2. Likewise, all the gods and dieties and spirits are a creation of our mind, an abstract notion.
3. How can something as abstract as a sungma (diety) effect the Tibetan cause and Tibet policy in a negative way?
4. When we have so many other more objective and more pressing issues to take care of, where was the need for our government, especially HHDL, to go and create another problem?
5. The world will laugh at us to think that when we are fighting a life and death battle for the very existance of our nation, our leader had to create an issue something as non-existant (objectively) as a shugden.
5. This situation is especially grave given the current situation of Tibet, when it is of paramount importance that we all unite together to fight our common enemy. This is not the time for communal rifts and divisions. And to think that our own government has created this is unbelievable.

I think the Tibetan government should publicly apoligise to all the shugden worshippers.

]]> By: Tsering Choedon http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2008/04/30/nurturing-the-embers-of-rangzen/#comment-399 Tsering Choedon Mon, 05 May 2008 13:32:57 +0000 http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/?p=15#comment-399 It is interesting to see some people, one in particular, speaking with "holier than thou" kind of air. There is no need for us Tibetans to put on this "holy" "peaceful" act. No country in the whole of human history gained independance from non-violant movement alone. Even India went through periods of active violant protests against the British. Gandhi's non-violance could suceed only because others before him had sowed the seed of India's independance movement through their blood and life. Why should it be any different for Tibet? Who is going to take note of us if we all pretended to be "bodhisatvas" and put on this holy act? In his role as a world peace leader, HH has no other option but to preach non-violance. But that does not mean that we the average Tibetans have to stick to that dictum. As a matter of fact, I sometimes think that there is a conflict of interest between HH role as a world peace leader and his role as the head of the Tibetan state. It is as if HH is sacrificing the cause of Tibet at the expense of being the world peace leader. Non-violance alone cannot fetch us our independance, not even "autonomy". Only when we muster enough courage to stand up against China's might, can we gain any recognition from our enemy and the bystanders. The events of the past 50 days are vivid examples of this. What now needs to be seen is how we can capitalize on the immense media coverage and sympathy that we have gained these past 50+ days. Apart from activism, we also need to learn the art of diplomacy and negotiation. As ever in the past, China summoned us to a meeting. The very next day, they villify the very person who's envoys they met. What kind of diplomacy is that? More importantly, what kind of "kowtow" is that from our side? It is interesting to see some people, one in particular, speaking with “holier than thou” kind of air.

There is no need for us Tibetans to put on this “holy”
“peaceful” act.
No country in the whole of human history gained independance from non-violant movement alone. Even India went through periods of active violant protests against the British. Gandhi’s non-violance could suceed only because others before him had sowed the seed of India’s independance movement through their blood and life.
Why should it be any different for Tibet? Who is going to take note of us if we all pretended to be “bodhisatvas” and put on this holy act?
In his role as a world peace leader, HH has no other option but to preach non-violance. But that does not mean that we the average Tibetans have to stick to that dictum.

As a matter of fact, I sometimes think that there is a conflict of interest between HH role as a world peace leader and his role as the head of the Tibetan state.
It is as if HH is sacrificing the cause of Tibet at the expense of being the world peace leader.
Non-violance alone cannot fetch us our independance, not even “autonomy”. Only when we muster enough courage to stand up against China’s might, can we gain any recognition from our enemy and the bystanders. The events of the past 50 days are vivid examples of this.
What now needs to be seen is how we can capitalize on the immense media coverage and sympathy that we have gained these past 50+ days.
Apart from activism, we also need to learn the art of diplomacy and negotiation. As ever in the past, China summoned us to a meeting. The very next day, they villify the very person who’s envoys they met. What kind of diplomacy is that? More importantly, what kind of “kowtow” is that from our side?

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