May 8th, 2008
NEGOTIATION NIGHTMARE
I must ask the reader’s forgiveness for my occasional forays into amateur psychology. I wrote about something like this in a previous article but I want to discuss another kind of recurring nightmare, also known to clinical psychiatry, in which the sleeper manages, after a tremendous struggle, to get out of a frightening situation and thinks he has woken up, when he realizes that he is back again in that same nightmare. What if this situation repeated itself seven or eight times in your dream till you began to suspect that perhaps you were stuck in it forever.
The following passage is from an article I wrote back in April 1993:
“Whenever the Tibetan issue has received any substantial attention in the world, be it with the demonstrations (1987-90) in Lhasa or the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to the Dalai Lama, the Chinese have nearly always succeeded in side-tracking international concern by making titillating press announcements soon after the event, declaring their willingness to sit down and talk with the Dalai Lama or his representatives. Those sympathetic to Tibet naturally heave a huge sigh of relief on hearing this, and the situation is then effectively defused.”
This March, when the Rangzen Revolution exploded in the international arena, Beijing, ever true to form, did exactly as it had done many times before and invited the Dalai Lama’s envoys for negotiations. Dharamshala, of course, did as it had done many times before, and accepted the invitation in a heartbeat. The IOC board and world leaders (George Bush being one) keen to attend the Beijing Games but being criticized for their attitude heaved a huge collective sigh of relief and the situation was effectively defused. Ministers of ASEAN countries welcomed the negotiations and “restoration of normalcy in Tibet” and “expressed confidence that the Beijing Olympics would be a success”. We can expect other leaders and celebrities to make their announcements soon. We just gave them the moral excuse that they needed.
Starting from around 1979 I’ve written about nearly all the attempts by Dharamshala to convince China to sit down to some discussion on “associate status” “one nation two systems” “zone of ahimsa”, “Middle Way Approach”, “real autonomy” and of course “meaningful autonomy. As the years went by I found myself getting jaded with the whole futile exercise, and even caught myself reproducing passages from some previous writing in the latest piece I was writing. On one occasion I tried to treat the issue with a little levity, borrowing a couple of characters from the Charles Schultz’s comic strip, Peanuts.
“Once in a while, though, the delegation does actually get to go to Beijing. They invariably return to Dharamshala in a daze, with a look on their faces not unlike that on Charlie Brown’s when he is lying flat on his back, after having been persuaded by Lucy, for the umpteenth time, to take a running kick at a football that she never fails to yank away at the last moment. “Isn’t trust a wonderful thing, Charlie Brown?”
This time the chief Tibetan negotiator, Lodi Gyari,) might have landed on his head when Beijing pulled away the football since the statement he gave to the press in Hong Kong didn’t make sense. “It was a good first step,” he said (What about all the previous talks? What sort of steps were they? Or have we decided to go backwards?) Lodi Gyari continued his briefing on this reassuring note “All very candid. We had very candid discussions,”
The New York Times of 5th May citing Xinhua (the official Chinese news agency) reported that the talks, “mostly involved finger wagging (by the Chinese) and a warning that future dialogue would be fruitless unless the Dalai ceased advocating Tibetan Independence. They also urged him to stop disrupting and sabotaging the upcoming Olympics Games.” The Chinese negotiators were two low level officials Zhu Weijun and Sitar, but they weren’t low enough for Chinese netizens who ridiculed the talks saying, “next time it will do just to dispatch a bureau chief,” or “the city management will be able to deal with the issue, do not bother the Chairman and the Prime Minister too much.”
The two officials talked down to Lodi Gyari and Kalsang Gyaltsen in the most condescending and arrogant manner, like ministers of ancient China dealing with troublesome barbarian sub-chiefs. They declared that Tibetans had through their evil behavior created obstacles to resuming negotiations but that “the central government still arranged this meeting with great patience and sincerity.” Throughout this period the Chinese press and intelligentsia kept up a continual barrage of incredibly abusive rhetoric against the Dalai Lama, which were reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution according to Woeser. Woeser’s own opinion of the talk was forthright “The Sino-Tibetan talk at present is completely tendentious. It is an effort to satisfy the pressure from the western society and to brag about itself.”
I didn’t write anything earlier because I hoped that the envoys might get an opportunity to confront Chinese leaders about their harsh crack-down on Tibetan protesters and at the very least initiate some discussion on the conditions of the Tibetans being arrested and persecuted, and obtain some minimal assurance about the condition of these people.
From the little information we are getting it appears that the Chinese are conducting massive crackdowns and reprisals all over Tibet. First of all it is clear that the trial of the thirty protesters in Lhasa, although a travesty in terms of real justice, is also possibly a red herring. The basic idea of the trial seems to have been to create the impression that not many people have been arrested in Tibet.
In reality thousand of Tibetans have been arrested and will probably be tried in secret (or not have a trial at all) and be incarcerated or shot. Woeser in her last Tibet Update reports that “thousands of Tibetans have met with the fate of being killed, being arrested, being tortured to confess, being missing, committing suicide or having mental disorder, and this has brought disasters to countless Tibetan families.”
I have also heard of many hundreds, maybe even a thousand or so men in rural Amdo and Kham hiding out in the mountains, to avoid police and military crackdowns in their districts. There has been the report of a gunfight between Tibetans and Chinese security personnel. A couple of days ago I received an unconfirmed account of two women in a village in Amdo who were harassed beyond endurance by Chinese policemen about religious images in their home. The women stabbed three policemen to death and were themselves subsequently gunned down. In all likelihood it appears that the situation in Tibet will deteriorate further. The situation is deeply troubling especially since there is little or no information on what is actually happening.
No amount of begging, pleading or further negotiating with Beijing will bring any resolution, even a little improvement, to this crisis. I think that Dharamshala has one real option left to deal with this situation. It must act in a way that is bold, dynamic and totally unanticipated by Beijing. The exile government must declare that in light of the sentiments expressed by Tibetan people in the recent protests, and the harshness and implacability of the Chinese government’s response to the expression of their basic human rights, the Tibetan government is compelled to reconsider its Middle Path policy. That the Kashag and the Tibetan parliament will immediately commence joint hearings to review the Middle Path policy and that representatives of Tibetan organizations advocating independence will be invited to offer their testimonies at the proceedings.
To His Holiness I would respectfully suggest that he make a public announcement stating that though he had genuinely and unreservedly supported China’s bid to host the Olympic Games, the lives and welfare of the thousands of Tibetans – victims of China’s crackdown – were far more important than a sporting event (even one as major as the Olympics). That unless China agreed to allow international agencies as the Red Cross, the UN or Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Reporters Without Borders, and other such organizations, to send their personnel freely throughout Tibet to verify the conditions of these people and check on their legal situation, he would be compelled to appeal to the world to boycott the Beijing Games. Furthermore he would call on all his subjects, his friends, supporters and disciples worldwide, to engage in non-violent but direct action to disrupt China’s massive ultra-nationalist propaganda exercise, for which the 2008 Olympic Games is being effectively employed.
Real negotiations might follow, for the first time.
Comments
Jamyang la, your your points are good to read but in reality it is like a paper tiger. If you have problem with your neighbor on fencing your house and your neighbor ask you to lets talk and discuss the problem. Are you going to withdraw from his invitation before you solve the problem. As far as concerned with recent visit of two Envoys there is problem with china’s treatment of Tibetan people and Dharamsala’s urgent concern is well being of those Tibetans who are imprisoned or under detention. More over over all situation in Tibet is very bad. If you go through statement from the Office of HH the Dalai Lama on Envoys visit it is very clear that why Dharamsala is sending Envoys to China. May be you don’t agree on any kind of dialogue but when it comes to your personal issue I can imagine you will definitely sit with your opponent and discuss the issue and try to solve for mutual benifit. My greatest concern with your writing is you are fooling so many young Tibetans who don’t go in depth to real issue of Tibet and read fantasy writing and make judgment. This is real danger for future Tibet. So, please be realistic and go through all sort of informations. Thanks
I doubt the babus of gangkyi or the old court of power in Dhasa will have the farsightedness or the courage to take, what is basically the most realistic and the right step to do. Confront China with their own lies instead of trying to clarify what the Tibetans and and HH is not doing. I dont think China is not aware of what Tibetans are upto.
The Tibetan is not an issue of ignorance or misunderstanding. It is simply China colonising Tibet and wanted this to continue.
I cannot, no matter how hard I try understand the “first right step”. Like you said, things are not turning normal. If at all, things are getting worse for Tibetans in Tibet.
I thought Samdhong Rinpoche said that dailogue on the future of Tibet is not possible when the situation is Tibet is bad. I dont think that has changed at all. SO what is the appropriate time they are talking about now?
Gyari Lodoe and Kalsang Gyaltsen comes back all the time with nothing but “free and frank” “free and candid” “candystore”. And on the other side all they get to meet is some lowly officials while the President Hu Jintao keeps on berating HH for sabotaging the olympics and spilliting the olympics.
So now, what if we try to do that exactly. What will they accuse us of? Nothing but the same. So why shouldn’t we do exaclty that, like Jamyang la said. Declare Rangzen as our goal and out fight. And then it will become our destiny.
Kyi hi hi!
A question: Are Woeser’s posts translated into English on a regular basis? If so, where might I find them?
Woeser’s TIBET UPDATE posts are not regular. They are translated by friends and appear on chinadigitaltimes.net . Check it out. By the way Woeser has said that she will discontinue her UPDATE temporarily. Her website is being hacked and bombarded with viruses.
Since March 10 she has been gathering and compiling information on events unfolding in Tibet. This has been a most valuable source of information on events in Tibet for the international press. Her information proved to be accurate and she has diligently corrected where there were errors regarding names and details in previous updates.
When I heard that Gyari was reporting in HK, “It was the good first start”! I was baffled to the fact, “The Good First Start” have been repeated for 7 times, we are still at the same position and our envoys reporting back the same “OLD STATEMENT”. I wonder what envoys have to hide! Enough is enough, we need to do something, at least first we need to change our policy back to “rangzen” which we are entitled to in any aspects of international laws. We need an immediate political discussion and should come to that conclusion. I have told myself that “Negotiation should not happen when murder, imprisonment, looting, destruction of human spirit, Religion and so on are taking place in the backyard.” Unfortunately, our envoys are doing exactly we did not expect!
Everytime there is some actions between the Tibetans and the Chinese, Jamyang Norbu becomes negative. Everytime when there is nothing happening, Jamyang becomes negative. So, i wonder why is he always so negative. Maybe he simply lacks the wisdom for providing constructive and practicle suggestions. Jamyang Norbu can only talk but HE PRACTICALLY DOES NOTHING for Tibet. Please someone tell me if I am wrong.
In a previous article he said that “the Dalai Lama has no understanding or modern politics”. Does he really mean that? Those Chinese who criticize His Holiness do so because they are ignorant of the issue. But when people such as Jamyang does it, I think, they do so with the motivation to demise His Holiness.
As he himself has said that he has written so many articles to criticize the policy of Tibetan govt. For the majority of the Tibetans his articles are like the same night mare happening again and again.
Jamyang Norbu, You said it’s wrong to talk to China. You said His Holiness is wrong to support Beijing Olympics. I have this question for you. Then What is right?
Sir:
Do you think it is possible that, at this point, it is simply too embarrassing for the TGIE (or CTA or whatever it wants to call itself) to admit that it has been wrong all this time?
Dear Jamyang,
I probably understand fully where you are coming from, but if His Holiness would do as you suggest, I would think two things will happen:
1. The CCP will say; ’see, we told you that he is a splittist’ - and that will be the end of any talks, not a beginning.
2. The (western) world would be pretty confused, as an independent Tibet is not only completely unrealistic (even if the Chinese would suddenly move out tomorrow, you would have a major problem fitting the Tibetans inside and outside of Tibet together), we know this is completely non-negotiable for the Chinese, so what do you think foreign countries should do? They certainly would not know. So in that case, you can be sure they will do nothing at all - no use fighting for a lost cause…
You seem to overlook the one thing that makes Tibet sympathetic in foreign eyes: that is the high moral ground that His Holiness is holding, and his peaceful, realistic approach. When that is lost, nobody would be interested in the Tibet issue at all!
Mind you, I don’t know what is best at the moment, otherwise I would preach it myself.
But I can tell you what will make things even worse…
writing on Tibet is one thing, while writing and doing something is also another. If you read and write, the experience is bit like copying ideas but if you write by doing something, it is more powerful and valid.
Rangzen is not easy, simply advocating and writing about Rangzen might only yield a bit more awareness, but I beleive a real rangzen believer would definitely have something done in quantity as well as quality wise.
I don’t deny Jamyang la’s advocacy of Rangzen and the concurrent wave of tide it arouse amongst us youngsters for which jamyangla rightfully deserve full credit, but if you say you wanted to be someone from exile to keep the flame alight, show us some path, some stretegies and lets have a CRACK NOW or never…. long live Rangzen Revolution
I fully agree with Jamyang Norbu; it’s time for a radical shift in Tibetan policy and a Declaration of Independence would be a timely decision. His Holiness would regain full support from his people (which, obviously, he gradually lost with every new failed attempt at negotiating) and would be remembered for the next generations as one of those “Great” Dalai Lamas, such as the Fifth, Seventh and Thirteen.
In regard to foreign support, is there really much to loose? What brought this patronizing support all these years? Apart of His Holiness receiving prizes and medals, did anything change in Tibet? Whatever occurred in the country, be it “reforms” or “liberalization policies”, were exclusively the result of internal Chinese decisions, not of American, European or any other government “efforts” to defend the Tibetan cause.
As for individual support, Tibetans would only loose the too many New Age and barefoot freaks who get in the way of Tibetan demonstrations and Dharamsala’s public audiences, with all the damaging consequences this has on Tibet’s image. The other “Injis”, those who really support Tibetan’s plea, could only be pleased of such a political shift; this would bring together again all supports groups that have been divided by this issue of autonomy vs. rangzen.
Finally, regarding our dear Chinese friends, they would at last know what to expect. Their country suffered greatly under foreign occupation but at no point their ancestors asked autonomy from the occupying power: a struggle for independence might thus ring another bell in their understanding of the Tibet problem and, who knows, cause them more respect and esteem for the Tibetan people…
Dear Rudy
I want to thank you making your points in a precise and organized manner. My answers
1. No matter what he says or does the CCP will always say he is a splittist. Forget about the “end of talks” there are no real talks at all, and there have never been. They are just a ploy to get Tibetans to keep Tibetans quiet and inactive till the Dalai Lama should pass away. In fact the Chinese have said as much in policy meetings.
2. The Western world is not doing anything for the Tibetans. Period. There is nothing more “not to do” if Tibetans should opt for independence. All freedom struggles were “unrealistic” when they started. Nobody ever believed in the 60s and 70’s that the Soviet Union would ever collapse or that Eastern Europe would be free.
3. You say “Nobody would be interested in the Tibet issue at all” if not for HH’s peaceful approach. Think again. It was the uprising in Tibet this year and all the activism of Tibetans and Tibetan supporters all over that created the real international interest. HH & Samdong Rimpoche did not want Tibetans to demonstrate at all.
Dear Mipham,
The way to create a Rangzen strategy is thru study and thinking and writing, but most of all thru free discussion and open debate. That is what we are doing here in this forum. There is no other way. I do not believe one man has the answer. The Rangzen Revolution will triumph, but that victory will be forged in the democratic crucible of free speech and voluntary and united action.
Jamyangla was absolutely right. And he is expert on what he is doing.That is why I value his every words.
Secondly, i heard somebody was saying about support from western world. Western world had been supporting us morally for a long time, but not on the side of international stage. What are you expecting more? American or French or British send Army to fight for us???
There is only one way to get our rangzen, our leader has to lead our people and take some serious non-violence resistance action. NOt just the talk.
Last word, Tibetan! stop not being yourselves. Stop being the Tibetans in Kundun movie; peace loving hypocrite people.
Do you think those terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan don’t love peace, do you think they just want to kill innocents?
I am not advocating violence here but our version of non-violence is a joke. I mean there is no objective, no motivation at all. Oh sorry one motivation exist; to show we are Buddhist.
Please next time, can we have a leader who can think and whom we can criticized for their mistakes. A leader who listen to the people and learn from the mistakes instead of listening from the BUDDHA’s prayer.
First of all I have no hope in Gyari and Kelsang’s negotiating, I have heard Gyari’s reports before, when he returned from China, I think it was around 5th talk, some are hilarious and some are pathetic. I heard one time Gyari said “this time the Chinese are smiling much more than before,” I also heard Gyari was saying “this time we were escorted with police serine vehicle.” Please, in China district secretary and county administrator is escorted with serine vehicles. First of all d they did not go to China for a smile from the low level negotiators, for that matter any smile. Gyari was also ordered by a Chinese contact person in previous talks, “do not bring any Chinese translator.” Why because the Chinese wanted to talk among themselves on the spot to discuss among themselves and give answer they wanted t, so they do not have to talk secretly while the so called negotiation was going, that is why we never heard this time there is translator from the Tibetan side. It is normal for any negotiators to bring their own translator. Have Gyari and Kelsang asked if they could bring their own translator? I doubted, because Gyari is already trained before not to bring and he would listen what the Chinese wanted and anticipate their desire.
The TGIE have wasted twenty years, twenty years in these meaningless talks. Most of these talks headed by Gyari and got nothing out of it.
Now is not the time to ask for talk anyway, it is time to bring pressure and continue to fight for our basic right, the right for independent Tibet. Tibetan people are not fighting for an autonomous Tibet, they are fighting for independent Tibet and want every control of their live, their future, their foreign and domestic rule. If we continue to fight, the world has to listen to us, because this is desire of Tibetan people. We fight and fight until Chinese have no choice but to listen. Tibetan problem is here for thousands of years and China could never ignore our dream and aspirations……..
Jamnor la,
Recuring of such a nightmare,definately harm the process of revatilising the exhausted being. But should we avoid sleeping altoghether, or making some neccessary changes in-search of short- nap.
Yeah, recent envoy,witnessed same stand in softer surface, and much hope was shifted to next round of talk, which date is not specified. It reflects some some kind of ploy to avoid the occurance of disturbances for Bejing Olmpic.
Bejing’s minor shift to Dharamsala, always heave undeserving relive in the eyes of Tibetan, and china found it most effective tricks to apply, when Tibet’s issue burning thier feet.
Since 1979, issue of Tibet confine to Genuine Autonomous
and no concrete result has yeild after the series of Talks. sporadic visit as just revitalising pills for not to lose the hope of One country with two systerm or genuine Autonomous. Bejing’s very uncompromising stand caste shiver in the section of tibetans and Its lost, when Bejing repeats same shift.
I feel, its high time to find realistic sources of hope and virtually we got to change our position, if this comming round talk yeild no desireable result.
let see.
Our defeatist policy and political approach are now seems producing quite a number of ignorant people.
China will never talk to Tibetan envoys, why? Consider the following:
1) China always accuss HHDL and Tibetans outside (including those who stage a peaceful protest or even doing a social work to benefit Tibetans in Tibet) are suspicous of Tibetan Independent Forces. The “splitist” is our name “TAG” from China. However, it is not that China has no basis for such accussation, it is because of the fact that “Tibet was an independent nation” and Chinese has this “GUILT”. Therefore, they never change their political “charges”. We need to stand “firm” on our “RANGZEN”.
2. It is bit niave that many of us thinking what “WESTERN GOVERNMENT WILL REACTION” will be if we change our policy back to “RANGZEN”. Why are we still at mercy of someone and let them decide our own instintive desire for a “FREE TIBET”?
3. Look at the Chinese party who talked to “SPECIAL ENVOYS”.
I have questions to those who argue against rangzen as unrealistic, why so? How autonomy is realistic and what is the concrete result produced by it? By making more concession, I think we lost more than any returns!
Now, it is high time to we move on finger pointing stuff such as “we did you do for Tibet or so forth?” We need to fight in own ways, but first, we need a clear “GOAL”.
Thankfully annoying meddlers like Rudy do not represent “the West”. On the contrary, it’s naive ideas like hers from injinangpa and hippies that made the Tibetan struggle A JOKE in the eyes of serious politically-minded westerners for many decades. Thankfully we’re finally escaping that. Keep up the good work!
By the way, this article on phayul shows the hypocrisy of injis who like to judge Tibet in a sad yet beautiful way:
http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=21107
Who do you wish to influence, and why is it important?
An independent Tibet, present and active in the United Nations and other international bodies, has a much higher value in the eyes of sympathetic, allied outsiders than Tibet as an (autonomous) part of China.
If I may refer this to Jamyang la for his insideful view.
The position of HHDL and TGIE on the past history is that ‘ history is history, no one can change it, lets look at future’, this narrative seems holding some water but in practical terms, I beleive they are actually changing the past records by submitting for Autonomy.
The independence of Tibet, rightfully n historically declared by HH13DL in 1912 is being erased from the history books for now and ever.
That is what I think, what is Jamyangla’s say on this.
There is a fundamental effort to rewrite Tibetan history from Dharamshala. For instance last year two biographies of Phuntsog Wangyal the Tibetan Communist official who actively helped the Red Army to invade Tibet, has been published with official support and encouragement.
In 2006, the anniversary of the Great Khampa Uprising nothing was done to honour this event. Not even a brief speech. Not a word. That year the Kashag met to discuss whether official participation at the 10th March commemoration should be discontinued, and whether the 10th March events should be made observed in a low key way.
“The rewriting of Tibetan history” has been something that China, Dharamshala and certain Western academics have been guilty of. Expect a detailled study in the near future.
Guys,you are all right.We need first of all to redefine our goal…what is it…autonomy or independence?For this,the views of the majority should be taken into consideration.After all what is democracy without listening to the voice of the majority.Secondly,i am already disgusted not only with the chinese government calling His Holiness as a splittist but also with some tibetans calling other tibetans as splittists for their different views!!!Thank you Jamyang Norbu lak,every soceity needs people like you to make people think,with real thinking can start real action.Boed Gyal Lo.
Hi Rich,
I think you are a very smart person, in fact I’m sure of it, but I think you are dumb to throw what Rudy says into that category of the Yinji Nangpa (English Insiders; I take it you mean silly New Agers).
And anyway, I fail to see how replacing a *Tibet* renowned for its inspiring and exceptionally human values and real-life wisdom with a *Tibet* known for its shrewdly underhanded political maneuvers and aggressive tactics will be a good thing for Tibetans or for the world. Besides it will fall smack dab in the middle of the Beijing trap. You’re a smart person, so I’m betting you’ll agree that there would be no reason for celebration when gods are turned into demons. (I’m alluding a 12th-century Tibetan spiritual classic here, with which you are no doubt familiar if you have ever attended HH’s teachings.) Not one bit of New Age-ism about it!
I think Jamyang is a truly great writer, a master of the English language in which he received his main education, and that his points of view play an extremely important part of the developing democratic atmosphere HH is doing His best to promote in the community. That does *not* mean I’m ready to elevate J.N. into some kind of godking. Not even a godling. (Sorry J.N.-lags, it’s really not about you. I’m talking to Rich here.)
Dear Jamyang-la,
1. You may be right in your assumption that the CCP will always call His Holiness a splittist, then again, it is my (only one of my two) hope for a change in Tibet when they withdraw that (see further under 4). Of course, I never said the Tibetans should keep quiet, and neither does His Holiness say that protests should stop - I thought (see 3).
2. The western world is not doing much, certainly, but you forget that all the media attention was due to the western world. The western world is already causing major ‘loss of face’ for the CCP. So far, the CCP have at least made the concession to having talks at all, however empty these are.
Regarding the collapse of the system, yes, that is my second hope for Tibet, however, that is likely still a long time from now, as the CCP still has full control over everything, and are backed by their youth of brainwashed Cultural Revolution kids.
Although I had hopes for a change started by students in the time of Tiannanmen Square, when I see the fanatical nationalism (close to fascism) that the Chinese students are showing now, I can’t see how these kids will make a change for the better.
(By the way, the situation in Russia is nearly back to square 1 under Tsar Putin…)
3. You are right, it is the uprising in Tibet this year that drew media attention, however, what you forget is that westerners know His Holiness pretty well at the moment, and what makes people angry is the aggressive stance of the CCP against basically peaceful demonstrations. If the non-violence stance would be dropped and His Holiness would go again for independence, another Tibetan uprising would get zero attention in the western media. Then, it would become ‘just another’ violent group fighting for independence, which means nothing to the western general public, because there are hundreds of these around the world.
Just to get this clear, did “HH & Samdong Rimpoche did not want Tibetans to demonstrate at all”? I was not aware of this, just that HH want non-violent demonstrations?
4. My best suggestion for now would be that the Tibetans should as soon as possible press for another round of talks, that should be aimed at getting HH directly involved with a high ranking Chinese official (Hu himself or at least not more then one level under him), not the jokers the Chinese sent this time. It seems likely that this second round will also end up nowhere, but Tibetan Govt. should let this know to the western media AHEAD of the meeting, that the CCP appears not at all serious about these talks, especially considering the continuous vitriolic attacks from the Chinese media, which proves they don’t want to talk at all, merely keeping appearancs up towards the west.
When they prove to be completely unproductive - as expected - then (while keeping up demonstrations everywhere) you would put the western media and governments under pressure to demand not ‘just talks’, but ’serious talks’.
This need to be done fast, before the olympics, because after the olympics Tibet may wel be out of the media forgood…
I personally see this as the last chance to get something started, only other option seems to be waiting for a Russia-like revolution. But that could take decades: by that time there is probably not even anyone left in Tibet who knows what Tibet was before the Chinese took over….
Love & clear light,
Rudy
To all the other commentators; good points everywhere. I do think that Tibetans need to make up their mind about independence or autonomy; at the moment, the Tibetans themselves are split in two, and that is the best way of helping the Chinese, really.
However much I think that independence is not at all feasible for many reasons, if Tibetans cannot make a united front, the CCP will make use of these divisions. It is also happening within the western media. There is really nothing worse for your case then being divided.
Yes, I am an ‘outsider’, but some of you seem to forget that the outsiders (the rest of the world) is all you have in your fight…
By the way, would any of you be interested discussing this on a dedicated discussion forum - this blog is not exactly the best place for an extended discussion?
Love & clear light,
Rudy
Jamyang la,
Sometimes I wonder where the history is disappearing to.
Dharamshala probably doesn’t want to anger the Chinese. I wonder why people still believe that talks with China would ever solve anything. The only reason China invites any Tibetans for talks is to show the world that China is in control and that Tibetans belong to China.
I wish those hapless negotiators who go speak to Chinese officials would realize this.
Unfortunately, the only way any talks would ever be of benefit to Tibetans would probably be after the Chinese colonial project has been made so costly to China, in terms of resources and lives, that they would look for a way to quit Tibet.
Rudy,
That is arrogant to say that all Tibetans have are outsiders in their struggle. You are wrong.
Tibetans have the right to take up their own national subjectivity without listening to what “outsiders,” the injiynangpa, or China wants.
I also would not say, as you have done, that there are probably no Tibetans inside Tibet who remember what Tibet before China was like. That is actually pointless to say. It appears, from the reports coming out of Tibet, that they do at least know that Tibet was independent and would like China to turn around and leave.
You could say that China leaving Tibet is an unrealistic goal, but remember, it is still costly for an occupier to maintain a colony. Occupiers will remain so long as they can extract either resources, or a sense of nationalist ego-pride. Once both of those are bruised and marred beyond recognition, that is when doubt and questioning starts to happen.
I don’t think Tibetans inside of Tibet are split in two, in terms of their desire and aspiration for themselves. No one is going to fly a banned flag or shout banned slogans because they want meaningful autonomy. It is disingenuous for the Dalai Lama and the TGIE to attempt to reframe this uprising into their own comfortable political terms.
Hi Jamyang lak,
Although your piece here really make sense but the very idea of blaming the whole thing on TGIE is foolish and illogical. It’s time we give them the necessary support and constructive suggestions to boost their confidence to face the mighty red devils. Do you think it’s easy to deal with the red chinese with your ideologies, which is quite different from the TGIE? Do you think it will bring more fruitful result? And do you have the confidence to get the desired result without going through the nightmares (as in your word)that the TGIE representative went though all these years?
Dava, there’s nothing underhanded about standing up for what’s right. This sort of implication it offensive and has got to stop.
Nobody, least of all myself, was suggesting that standing up for what is right is not right. If I made any such implication, then I was truly offensive and will stop.
Here’s another article relating to the recent talk between Chinese and Tibetan representatives.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/JE08Ad01.html
Dear Hugh,
But who else do the Tibetans have as their ‘allies’?
Of course, Tibetans don’t need to listen to anybody. I merely thinkj it would not be very wise to think you know everything, especially when you are in a bout with a country that outnumbers you something like 500:1, and so far, nothing much has been achieved, were it not with His Holiness efforts and aid from India and the west.
I meant to say that in a few decades, everyone in Tibet has been born in China so to speak, and all that people can show is a Chinese birth certificate of passport to show who they are. As of that time, it is not really going back to an independent Tibet, but it becomes ‘inventing a new Tibet’. This I merely meant from the pint of view of individual people.
Besides this, their also appears to be a huge gap between Tibetans in Tibet and the Tibetans that have fled; are there really any young Tibetans in India or any other country who would want to go back to a country which is basically very tough to live in? I would think this is a major question as well - because it actually makes even the TYC ‘outsiders’ in that aspect. I find it hard to believe that many of them would love to go to Tibet after they expereince their first winter there…
Regarding holding a colony, I think you miss the whole point there. I am from Holland, a tiny country in Europe. Some 400 years ago we were one of the few ’superpowers’ worldwide. Why was that? The incredible profits we made from our colonies, nothing else!
You may be entering the propaganda trap of the Chinese, who make you believe they spend so much money to develop Tibet. Make no mistake; stealing land and colonizing it is a very profitable business. They still have barely begun mining in Tibet because of the difficult access, but raw materials are becoming very scarce in the world, and Tobet will (perhaps literally) be a goldmine in not too long a time.
Besides that, I think that the old cultural Tibet covers almost a quarter of China; these 1.3 billion people need space.
I think you are right about Tibetans inside Tibet; the trouble is that the media almost eclusively talk to Tibetans outside Tibet. Crudely said, if you watch a documentary of Tibet, you almost without exception hear poorly educated, simple-minded Tibetans who are afraid to have repercussions from the CCP. The only people that foreigners can have a proper discussion with live outside China/Tibet. And when these people are divided, it is disastrous for the cause of Tibet.
For example, you get a report saying, ‘The Tibetan Govt. in Exile says …., but not all Tibetans agree with this.’ That is not only very confusing, it creates the feeling in people sympathetic with Tibet that ‘if even Tibetans don’t know what they want, what is the use of trying to help them?’
Please let me be very clear about this, it is up to Tibetans to figure out what they want, but if you stay divided, any goal you have will be even further away.
Of course, in reality, I have no doubt that His Holiness would prefer complete independence, just like all other Tibetans. However, he sees that independence is further away then Shambhala if you know what I mean. We have a saying in Holland that says, ‘better half an egg then an empty shell’. In other words, better have some smaller obtainable goals realized then never realizing anything.
There is perhaps one good thing about the Chinese continuously attacking His Holiness in an angry way; the CCP looks more stupid in the western media day by day, because His Holiness is such a morally superior person, and you need any help you can get in your current struggle.
Please do not let your (understandable) anger about the situation take over logic and reason.
Love & clear light,
Rudy
Rich,
Seems to be like you are the real culprit here. You have got a funny way to let others know; target them first and advise them to go against it when others pinpoint you.
just joking man, cool down. Afterall, it will teach us not to get hurt easily and in turn stop harming others.
It may sound offtopic but it is relevant to any given situation in our life. Tibet without Buddhism is like a trash of the red chinese. Even if we get our country back, they may grow a number of worthless and evil minded people out there and slowly started to degenerate. That’s why we really learn to practice our religion to live in peace and harmony. If there is no religion, then i think we are going back to that century without religion, where the pople……………….kill, disrespect, break the laws, no trials, intolerance, out-laws, and many more.
Learn to keep our culture intact otherwise we will lose a big treasure which is precious and irreplaceable. Sometimes fear while browsing through the blog and suddenly catching up with something which is against the religion and the one who is preaching it. Don’t know what they want to prove. tibetan atheist may be. Religion, I mean the four main religion of Tibet including other worthwhile ones.
Jamnor lak, don’t feel bad for writing something on religion and its necessity. It’s my responsibilty to remind others (tibetans) to learn and practice it otherwise we will be left with our nail biting. It’s time to act on tibet we dearly cherish and Tibet, others held high being peaceful and happy. That’s is the way of life. I would be feeling very bad if i find all sort of rogues here and there even if we got our tibet back.
Pema Thinlay la
I am not just blaming putting the entire blame on the TGIE, but also offering them different options to their present policy, which I think has entirely failed. I make my criticisms quite sharply, otherwise they would be completely ignored. If you’ve lived and worked in Dharamshala as I have (for over 30 years) you will know that. You have to get the attention of the kalons and big shots.
I know most of you won’t believe me but I have very good relations with most officials (past and present) of the TGIE, and I have always received unstinting cooperation whenever I have asked anyone in the Information Office or anywhere else for some information.
Last night I watched the biography of Mahatma Gandhi, and he was know as the “Father of the Nation” in his later years. From an age of about 25 untill his death at the age of 79, he worked continuously for the independence of India. He sacrificed his life for India, spent many years in prisons, risked death, and was a very shrewd leader. He led the Salt March, and walked 250 miles, walking 10 miles a day. I think that he was 68 when he went on the Salt March. And he gave-up Western clothes because wearing Western clothes would mean subscribing to Western culture and thereby run against the ideas. So, they burn all Western clothing ina huge fire and many start wearing white “dhoti.” He made huge sacrifices for his country.
Now, Gandhi was an ordinary man who later became Mahatma Gandhi. Why aren’t there Tibetan people who have convictions similar to Gandhi? What we really need is leaders who are willing to sacrifice everygthing just like Gandhi. And I don’t think that there will be any who can be like Mahatma Gandhi who worked from his 20’s unto his death in 1979. He dedicated about 60 years of life to the cause of Indian Independence. What I am really saying is we should not wait for HH the Dalai Lama to do everything for the Tibetans. What we need is a true leader like Gandhi who will become the voice of Tibet. Just think what would it have been like if HH the Dalai Lama was involved in the planned walk from Dharamsala to the border of Tibet, that was cut short. This is what Gandhi would have done, because he was one of the people and he was front-and-center of what he preached. We should stop talking about adhering to non-violence because we are really not doing what Gandhi preached. He said that inorder to practice his brand of non-violence one should be willing to die. Well, how many Tibetans out there truly are selfless enough to give-up their lives for Tibet? How about, how many Tibetans out there are willing to sacrifice their lives for Tibet (but not willing to die)? Where are our leaders when we need them right now?
Ghandhi was a great leader and the Indian people had enough conviction to follow in his footsteps. What is going to determe our future is our character and resolve as a people. Only time will tell if we as a people did enough to fight for our country be it independence or autonomy.
If Dalai lama who has all the power, publicity, cannot lead the people, who you expect to lead Tibetan??? Dalai Lama won noble peace award….. lots of lots of awards. If God can’t do it, no human being can.
Or you can admit that Dalai Lama had never taken any non-violence action. He just talk and talk. Even Buddha himself took extreme method to achieve his nirvana.
Or you may be expecting CHUSHIKHANDRUG to lead us. They fought for Tibet in the past,but the weird thing was that we had never admit their brave commitments instead people were degrading them.
If anybody who has a different opinion, different approach from Dalai lama, people will call them traitor. Think who will stand up for our cause. Nobody.
Tenzin100,
I think, you are thinking and trying to put your thoughts and ideas together.
When Tibetan marchers decided to go across the Indian continent to reach Tibet, and arrested by the Indian authority. The first thing in my my came was, HH Dalai lama, he should march and demand Indain government to “release my pleople”. If India so called the biggest democracy country in the world does not allow to exercise non-voilent democratic practice, why they are entittled to call the world biggest democracy? Ghandi did, Martin L King did, Aung San Suu Kyi did. Why not HH Dalai lama. The Indians are not going to arrest him.
Can you imagine when the Indian police try to arrest him, the world will be up with arms and that give Tibet cause more power and pressure all around the world. HH Dalai lama missed this oppotunity. Sorry,,,,,,,
WE THE PEOPLE OF TIBET
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU. AND I THINK THIS IS ONLY SOLUTION WORKS.
One good thing HH the Dalai Lama has done has been to NOT go into Tibet or return. For such a thing would most assuredly be a big propaganda boost to the PRC colonial mentality. No matter what the truth would be, the Chinese would most definitely tell the world that this is proof that a rebellious and errant “son of the motherland” has returned to the fold. Such a thing would be a tragedy.
No matter what the man does, he will be considered a splittist, unless he does give himself into the hands of the Chinese. Would this happen? I doubt it. Say what you will about HH, but he is no fool, at least in terms of his personal safety.
China is simply going to wait it out till HH passes on. Then they will announce a new Dalai Lama, at least giving themselves the self-seeking legitimacy they crave.
Sure. China will keep talking. They’ll talk for months or years. They’ll talk your damned ears off, if they must. No problem with talking, since they know they have all the cards.
Until the colonial project becomes painful for not only the Chinese government, but for all Chinese citizens who benefit from it….until that time, China will not be serious in any discussions with Tibetans. You may think this is wrong to say. But in national liberation against a colonial aggressor, the point that they are wrong must be made in a forceful way. This means making it costly for them to maintain any colonial presence. Even to the point of disrupting aspects of the colonial infrastructure and economy inside the metropolitan country.
But this needs to be smart, and not just hot headed. Since the point is to make the citizens of an empire also feel the pinch to the point where they question what they have been led to believe and why they are mucking about in someone else’s country.
There is a wealth of experience, social and historical, of such examples being brought to fruition that Tibetans can learn and then apply to their own circumstances, if they wish.
Dear rudy,
I have some remarks to your postings.
1. The media attention has stopped (in Europe) after China accepted dialogues with the envoys of the Dalai Lama.
2. In western democracy it is usual to have a government and an opposition. Why the Tibetans should not have the right to act in this way. It will prove, that Tibetans don`t want to go back to an absolutistic theocracy.
It is my impression, that the western media conceal the tibetan democratic opposition to have arguments in public against an independent Tibet.
Dear Martin & Hugh,
Please understand that I don’t approve of Tibetans having different ideas from His Holiness or the Government in exile; opposition is even absolutely necessary in a democratic system, otherwise the system falls apart.
Doing nothing will of course not help, at least demonstrations are necessary to keep the issue in the media.
The reason that media attention has stopped now is because the Tibetan government seems to do nothing right now, and it should - urgently. At least urge for a second round of talks, but also make clear that this first round had efectively no results, so that it is clear to the outside world who urged China for talks, that real talks are still not happening.
I also totally agree with Hugh that the Chinese talks in this way will probably go on until His Holiness passes away, however, western countries can apply much more pressure to the CCP to hold REAL talks, in which the CCP must do concessions to the Tibetans. However, again, the Tibetan government must become less diplomatic and put in much clearer words that the CCP needs to be pressurized. Go on the streets in Dharamsala, Delhi and in the South to have small, peaceful demonstrations to urge your government to get off their behinds. Why not symbolically block the entrance to the govt. in exile building in Dharamsala with banners, saying that unless they have a plan and do something, it is useless to meet anyway. But you must make a good plan of what these banners say, write up a good petition to your government and GET THE MEDIA INVOLVED.
As to what Tibetans in Tibet can do, well, it seems to me they are doing heroic stuff already; anything more will probably only cause summary executions like during the Cultural Revolution.
As to what Tibetans in exile can do: try to be creative rather then merely saying the Chinese and the Tibetan governments aren’t good!
I don’t know… why not have 24/7 peaceful ‘picknics’ with banners and large pictures of the killed Tibetans in the areas of Chinese embassies and consulates. If the police come to summon you should leave, just pack up your things peacefully, walk to the next park or public place and continue the ‘picknic’ with the banners. Similarly, you could have a 24/7 hungerstrikes in a similar manner, where people do 8 or 12 or 24 hour hunger strikes in the same manner. But in all cases, invite local and international press, have your own people around who can make good photos or videos that can be sent to the media, send photo & video reports twice a day to all the media you know. The point is not the demonstration itself, the point is to be in the media with a message. Make it clear that these talks are only a game by the CCP, and are not serious at all.
You should really try to be creative with little actions here and there, but always have a media plan ready. For example, there is the protest march to Tibet now; but I don’t see any media coverage apart from a Tibetan blog writing a story every week, that’s not media coverage. If there is no media coverage, these people could have just as well stayed home.
But right now, I would urge you to not bring up a violent alternative or do any violent action, simply because it will immediately destroy a lot of goodwill that you do have all over the world. The problem is only that the Tibetans as a whole do not effectively use this goodwill to pressurize the CCP into concessions.
Please understand, I’m only trying to provide you with suggestions, you of course need to decide what you want to do. One of the main issues is that the Tibetan people as a whole still have very little experience with democracy and demonstrations etc., and the whole trick is to get to the media with a gripping message and creative, sympathetic actions. If you look at all kinds of protests and actions in the west since the late 1960’s, you will notice that some things work, and others don’t.
Do this make any sense to you?
Love & clear light,
Rudy
Oops, I just made a serious mistake in the first line above; of course I mean to say that I approve of differnt ideas! Sorry!
Why Gyari is not telling what he talked with Chinese government? This kind of method and tactic is very grievous damaging for our cause. People around the world, and heads of governments think. Well, Tibetan and Chinese are talking and let them talk, this gives break for the Chinese from not having to talk and not talking meaningful negotiation when the situation is still tense and have the world tension on Tibet.
This meeting has broadcasted around the world. Tibetans, concerned citizens and supporters everywhere anxiously waiting, we have the rights to know, we have the rights to know what Gyari proposed and what agendas laid out. He refused to give details. This is typical of Gyari trying to put us in the darkness and leave us wondering. That makes us all wonder and scared what else they are giving up, on behalf of Tibetan people. We want open government not concealing from us. This is very important part of democracy, if they do not know!
We want to know now and be clear what they are talking on behalf us. Everyone should write to Dharamsala. If we let Dharamsala do what they want, we are waiting for a big disappointment and surpr
Please see the video on a speech given by Karma Choephel Tagluntsang in Tokyo on the 6th of May.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=2S26DL-zs8M#fFuELnjpGnw
This is the first time that Tibetan Government In Exile have explicitly publicly acknowledged what the Tibetan people want.
Tibetans want nothing less than COMPLETE INDEPENDENCE.
I am glad that the TGIE has at last used “PEOPLE’S DEMAND FOR COMPLETE INDEPENDANCE” card to pressure Chinese government to come to the negotiating table with sincerity.
That is the first step in the right direction in a long time.
The ball is now in the Chinese court. Let us see how they play it.
Why can’t we Tibetans send someone who will truly be able to stand up to the Chinese officials during the talks and not be bullied? Why must the same people who have not achieved anything go again?
Tsering Choedon,
I watched the vidoe, I don’t know if this is TGIE’s statement? or is it his statement? If this is TGIE’s position, then it should be made clear to everybody, what is their intension is and goal is. On the other hand, many of us have been saying this in the last 20 yrs and unfortunately TGIE ignored this suggestion and failed complete to achieve anything in the last twenty years. What discouraging and waist of time! I see there is no reason to listen to them anymore, unless other wise TGIE agrees with people’s demand, which is tatol independence for Tibet, they are out of touch with people. There are a lot smart people who can represent Tibetan people inside Tibet and outside much better then people like Samdong and Gyari.
BoRangZen!
Good point ‘we the people of Tibet’, TGIE is supposed to be a democratic government; you can contact them and demand an answer to these kind of questions.
Of course, the government in international negotiations cannot always just speak their mind; in many cases this ruins dimplomatic connections, but you are right that Tibetans and the rest of the world need to know exactly where TGIE stands. As a foregner, I urge you to use your democratic rights with your own government!
Try to get together with some people and draft (a bunch of these) questions, get some signtures and start bombarding them with emails and letters.
Love & clear light,
Rudy
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