A Celebration of Lies

 

As the Beijing Olympics comes to a close there are probably not many people on this planet who have not heard, read about, or witnessed the series of lies, deceptions, scams, manipulations, control-operations, and cruelties that the Communist Chinese authorities perpetrated during the Olympic Games in Beijing. In fact there were so many that it might be a good idea to list them all down since I am sure that most people have overlooked one or two, or forgotten a few, if they were noting them to begin with.

First of all we had the spectacular computer generated giant “footprints” that were “added” to television broadcast of the firework display at the opening ceremony.

Did you know that the one thousand or more massed drum-performers at the ceremony were all PLA soldiers and members of the wujing or armed police? Probably on rotation or R & R from torturing people or shooting them in the back in Tibet or East Turkestan.

Then there was the annoyingly perky nine-year-old, Lin Miaoke, portrayed as singing the “Ode to the Motherland”, while in fact she was lip-synching to a recorded version sung by a girl who was deemed less attractive, the seven year old Yang Peiyi. If he was watching this on TV the real Panchen Lama (under house arrest in Beijing) might have had a deja vu kind of moment.

Ai Weiwei, the original designer of the Birds Nest stadium, and one of the very rare Chinese of any artistic or intellectual stature who still has a mind of his own, said that “the ceremony deceived and humiliated its six hundred million spectators”. In 2007 he condemned Zhang Yimou and Steven Spiegel for choreographing the opening ceremony, and accused them of moral failure in not living up to their responsibility as artists.

One of the events in the opening ceremonies was a procession of children bearing a large Chinese flag into the stadium, each child wearing a costume representing one of China’s “ethnic minorities”. Actually the children were all Chinese. Minorities were probably considered too barbaric or too troublesome for such a task. One of them might have shouted “Bhod Rangzen!”.

Actually it could just be that there were no “minorities” left in Beijing. We know that nearly every Uighur and Tibetan had been kicked out of Beijing, not just students and visitors but even the poor amala selling trinkets at the subway station. Tsering Shakya’s neice, Lhamo Pemba, was expelled even though she was a British national and had a visa and residential permit. We also know that transient labourers, out-of town petitioners and many other Chinese had all been forced to leave the capital.

But let’s not make too much of that, after all even Joey Cheek, an Olympian Gold Medalist speed skater, and activist, had his visa revoked because he spoke out against China’s sponsorship of genocide in Darfur. If Olympic Gold Medalists can’t attend the Olympic Games then who can?

While on the subject of activists we should note that Beijing human rights activist Zeng Jinyan disappeared on the eve of the Opening Ceremony. A number of other Chinese dissidents and activists appear to have suffered the same fate including Ji Sizun, a lawyer. A friend claimed that even the telephone line in her apartment had been disconnected. They disappeared, just like that. Like the desaparecidos in South America in the seventies.

According to Reporters Without Borders, 22 foreign journalists were attacked or arrested during the Games. At least 50 human-rights activists were arrested, harassed, or forced to leave Beijing.

All Beijing hospitals were ordered to lock up their psychiatric wards. Patients were not allowed outside during the period of the Olympics. The authorities might have done this for cosmetic reasons. A New York Times report noted the absence of old people in Beijing during the Games. But there could be a direct security connection, as many hundreds (possibly even thousands) of dissidents, labour-organizers, Falun Gong members, and others have been committed to special state-run psychiatric institutions called Ankang, where according to Human Rights Watch they are treated with drugs, electric shocks and psycho-surgery (possibly even pre-frontal lobotomies) to cure them of their anti-social behaviour.

On to the actual games. There were reports that at least three Chinese gymnasts, including the gold-medalist He Kexin, were under the required age of sixteen. A computer security expert for the New York-based Intrepidus Group, performed a detailed forensic search for He’s age that confirmed the growing accusations. What is interesting is that the US Olympic Committee is not asking for an investigation. If He Kexin and other were disqualified on an age basis the US would have much to gain but it seems that no one wants to upset the Chinese hosts.

In the individual women’s competition the American gymnast Nastia Liukin had the same exact score as He Kexin but ended up with the silver due to a “very complicated voting procedure.” So complicated that no one in the public was really informed how that decision was made. The Americans kept quiet on this one also. The Bible says somewhere that “the borrower is a slave to the lender”.

Brazilian pole-vaulter Fabiana Murer said Olympic officials lost her pole during the finals at the Bird’s Nest stadium, costing her a chance to compete for a medal. She was clearly one of the likely medal winners on the basis of the heat results. Murer says she’s ‘never coming back to China’. This could have been screw-up by officials, and on the whole China’s athletes have, according to most reports, been sporting and well-behaved. Its specially admirable when you have to consider what some of them have to go through in life.

The New York Times published a couple of articles about the many professional athletes in China who were performing under compulsion. Such gold medalist as canoeist, Yang Wenjun — the son of peasant rice farmers, and Ma Pengpeng, a provincial rower from Handan City, were recruited compulsorily as children. They were deprived of an education in order that they dedicate their entire life to train for the sport that the authorities had chosen for them. There were other stories of gold medalist weight lifters dying of poverty and disease, and other washed-out athletes dumped like garbage after their usefulness to the state had ended. Another article reported on the unusually high incidence of injuries sustained by China’s athletes because of compulsory overtraining. This is not to say the West does not have it own problems with sports and athlete’s health, but the extreme degree of compulsion and state-control over the careers, even lives, of athletes is another thing altogether.

To backtrack a bit. There appears to be an on going discussion about the authenticity of the Chinese summit of Mt Everest with the Olympic torch back in May. There are serious charges that it was faked. The Chinese made sure that every foreigner, even on the Nepalese side of Everest was kicked out, including the BBC team camped out in Khumbu to cover the event. Even foreign journalists who had earlier been invited to record China’s great victory found their invitations revoked at the last moment. The Everest torch team of thirty people did not have a single non-Chinese journalist or outside observer. According to Nepalese blog, Blogdai, a most compelling evidence of the fakery seemed to come from the official footage of the alleged summit, as released to the western media. No old, faded prayer flags that mark the summit and have been known to stay in place for a few seasons or more. A complete lack of visual reference points – specific peaks, ridges and other things in the background. Climbers too chatty for the altitude, etc., etc. One theory is that the Olympic torch wouldn’t light on the summit in May, so they simply enacted the great moment for the cameras further down the mountain.

About a week into the Games came the revelation that a 21-point instruction list had been issued by the authorities to all Chinese journalists, itemizing the kinds of negative reporting they were to refrain from during the Olympics. The list was revealed at an IOC (International Olympic Committee) press conference, but the IOC spokesman denied knowing anything about this and questioned the authenticity of the list. As a part of the deal for Beijing hosting the Games the Chinese government had agreed to allow press freedom not only to foreign but to Chinese journalists as well.

We should remember that China had also guaranteed the freedom of speech to its citizens as well, for the Olympics. Everyone now knows of the infamous official “Protest Zones” that were set aside by the authorities during the Olympics, where people would be allowed to protest and demonstrate. And we also know that those Chinese who applied for permission to protest (77 applications) were not only all refused but many applicants were even arrested. But surely the decision by the authorities to sentence two frail grandmothers, Wu Dianyuan, 79, and Wang Xiuying, 77, to a one year “re-education through labour” (láojiào) for applying to protest, must be regarded as the most extraordinary of the many inhuman, heavy handed and repressive actions taken during the Olympics. AFP said that Wang and Wu would be allowed to serve their sentences at home, but would be sent to a labour camp if they caused further trouble.

Wang and the nearly blind Wu were just two of the 1.5 million men, women, and children whose homes in Beijing were bulldozed to make room for the construction of Olympic facilities and urban beautification projects. According to a Boston Globe column “To clear them out, the Geneva-based Center on Housing Rights and Evictions found, Chinese authorities resorted to “harassment, repression, imprisonment, and even violence.” Demolitions and evictions frequently occurred without due process. Many dispossessed residents were not compensated; those who were usually received a fraction of the amount” – as in the case of our two grannies.

The Boston Globe’s “China’s totalitarian games” appears to be a part of a growing expression of outrage and condemnation that the world press is finally allowing itself to make about China’s repressive and untrustworthy regime and the International Olympic Committee’s disgustingly self-serving pusillanimity. Also check out The New York Times editorial “Beijing’s Bad Faith Olympics”. Is this all just a temporary phenomenon? Will everyone just shove their snouts back in the China trough, once the novelty of moral indignation has worn off? I hope not. Perhaps this time the cracks in Beijing’s facade are just too many and too wide to be papered over that easily. If the awareness does hold, then the the IOC must, in a sense, be thanked for unwittingly performing this service for freedom and democracy. By awarding the Games to China and by allowing the Chinese authorities every opportunity to indulge in their lies and oppression, they alerted the world to the inherently deceitful and evil nature of Communist China .

Comments

  1. RELIGION IS POISON | August 24th, 2008 | 4:10 pm

    It’s amazing that Jamyang Norbu can not find a single worthy thing in the Beijing Olympic Games at all!!!! BTW, I do have a problem with the underage athlete allegation, it should be thoroughly investigated.

  2. Hugh | August 24th, 2008 | 4:53 pm

    Good points, Jamyang.

    I am suspicious, since I remember Tiananmen Square from almost 20 years ago. There was massive outrage and vitriol against China’s government then. And it all got hushed up and poopooed.

    I wonder if the Olympics mishandling and the broken promises will likewise be swept under the rug. The media can be fickle. We will see how it plays out. I can only hope the reality of what happened away from the glittering spectacle would be remembered.

  3. Rich | August 24th, 2008 | 6:06 pm

    JN, it’s great to have an aggregate list of all the deceptions, but sadly I don’t think this article lives up to the quality of writing and scholarship we’re used to seeing from you. Some references (even in the form of internet links) for the accusations you make would help, but overall it’s just the style of writing. It’s not that I don’t believe the claims you’ve made (most of them I knew were true already), but I don’t think you’re making a very convincing exposition of the issues.

  4. Jamyang Norbu | August 24th, 2008 | 6:26 pm

    Rich you’re absolutely right. sorry to disappoint. It’s just a matter of time, really. I just don’t have the time right now as I have to finish a book. I know I have to get down to writing shorter pieces. Anyway I’ll work something out and let all of you know.

    Hugh, yeah I remember Tienanmen too and all the outrage thats been hushed up and forgotten. Of course China’s spin doctors are going to work on their Olympic blunders. But then again its for us to keep the awareness going and kick the pigs when they stay too long at the trough. Squeal! Squeal! Its the best game in town. When we stand up to China we’re playing at the big tables. Never forget that.

    Rangzen Revolution Now!

  5. Rich | August 24th, 2008 | 9:16 pm

    Thanks for the explanation. I’ll be looking forward to your book, of course.

  6. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 25th, 2008 | 8:00 am

    Beijing 2008

    CHINA 1
    FREE TIBET 0.0

    DON’T BE A SORE LOSER !!

  7. Yifan | August 25th, 2008 | 10:17 am

    I generally class anti-China activists in two catagories

    1. genuine pro-human rights activists

    2. white supermacists who cannot stand China become strong

    and you have done an absolutely great job in pursuading me that you are the latter, well done 😛

  8. shocked | August 25th, 2008 | 10:29 am

    You are just being a bad loser

    before the olympics you called for boycotts, you said that Olympic venues will be “littered with protests”, yet when all your trikery has failed you still behave like a bad loser.

    This Olympic has been certainly one of the most successful and spectacular, and a couple of columnist and idiocrats certainly will not change this very fact.

  9. flipsy | August 25th, 2008 | 10:33 am

    You simply cannot wait for us to fail, you simply will seize on any single oppurtunity to bash us.

    Maybe it is time we forget your pointless bashings and get on with our lives.

    You threatened to ruin our Olympic, calling for boycotts, trying to extinguish the torch on its route, all these actions showed that you are no more than a bunch of clowns, and saboteurs, and hypocrits, who holds absolutely no regard for the feeling of the Chinese people, who has no regard for the very fundamental human rights of the Chinese: feel proud of ourselves. And you still call yourself “pro-human right”, shame on you!

  10. Phuntsok Jordhen | August 25th, 2008 | 1:09 pm

    Please watch this powerful documentary from inside Tibet for the Olympics, with Tibetans speaking about how they truely feel: http://freetibet2008.tv/2008/08/25/leaving-fear-behind-complete-film/

    The courageous voices from Tibetans inside Tibet, hopefully, will help the discerning mind to access the true situation in Tibet, in a very simple straight forward way.
    Also for Tibet supporter, may their brave voices, inspire us to never, ever give up, work harder for the Tibetans in Tibet, to never forget our own history, and to preserve our culture.

  11. Rich | August 25th, 2008 | 6:35 pm

    Yifan, you’re an idiot since Jamyang Norbu is Tibetan, not “white”. Way to go.

    Flipsy, I’ll stop waiting for China to fail as soon as China gets out of Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and ends its partnerships with the brutal regimes in Burma, Sudan, etc. It’s not hard. The choice is up to the Chinese people: Allow your country to continue on an imperialist and genocidal path and be forever hated by the world, or get out and be recognized as a modern and civilized nation. I have nothing against China except for what China keeps doing to others I care about.

  12. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 25th, 2008 | 9:25 pm

    RICH,

    When the Dalai Lama first visited Beijing 50 years ago, he was welcomed at the train station personally by Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping. Then they took him to have a banquet with Mao. Any student of politics will tell you this means he had lots of leverage over them 50 years ago during the Cold War. Now (especially after the successful Olympics), if DL were to go to Beijing today, he’s be lucky to be greeted by Chris Tucker at the airport to have dinner with Jackie Chan.

    What does this mean to Tibetans and Tibetan lovers? Well, he had a great hand 50 years ago and he played it very, very badly. There was not a single T for Tibet nor a single boycott (except Brunei for different reasons) nor a single objection for all the major world leaders in Beijing to pay homage to the CCP. After their great success, do you really expect the Chinese to pack up now and just leave Tibet. Quit dreaming. You’ll have a better chance convincing the white people to pack up and leave North America and Free the American Indians. Good luck!!

  13. Billk | August 25th, 2008 | 9:42 pm

    Yifan wrote: “I generally class anti-China activists in two catagories

    1. genuine pro-human rights activists

    2. white supermacists who cannot stand China become strong”

    How many times have we heard this before?

    However “strong” does get to the heart of the matter.

    I think the Olympics have shown how committed the Chinese government was to projecting an image of might and power to the world. It wasn’t too committed to demonstrating its ability to use power wisely and for the general good.

    Unfortunately, a sizeable proportion of the Chinese citizenry – most particularly the fenqing – are only too willing to buy into the government’s vision that military and economic power are goods in themselves. Their readiness to accept the government’s line that human rights critics are simply jealous of China’s new power makes everything that much harder for those heroic Chinese people who risk their lives in the cause of building a democratic China where all of its people could live dignified lives.

    Perhaps if Yifan really does care about human rights, she/he should take pause to consider that people like Jamyang Norbu are far truer friends to the Chinese people than China’s compliant elites.

  14. Dawa | August 25th, 2008 | 9:52 pm

    Flipsy, I have to tell you that Tibetans, Mongols and Turkestanis do wish for you Chinese to fail and the reason is because your success means your colonies are repressed more effectively. My only hope is that the people you subjugate will become more violent and make your life so miserable that you will find it not worthwhile to hold on to their places any longer. Although you people spawn faster than cockroaches (forgive me, cockroaches, for the comparison) you are also creating enemies at an astonishing rate so it won’t be long before something very hurtful will be done against you people and I hope that day is not far off. I used to think that thesurely re must be enough decent people among more than billion people but so far I am disappointed. So yes, once again, whenever a Chinese skater falls down on his or her face there are people who rejoice in it and the reason for it is your insensitive and ungenerous attitude towards others.

  15. Rich | August 25th, 2008 | 10:30 pm

    John, quit writing about things you know nothing about. This issue has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama, his personal status, or any of his past of present actions. Tibetans have a right to assert control over their own affairs regardless of your assessment of the Dalai Lama’s political prowess. And they will. And your filthy country will suffer. And I won’t shed a tear for you. You’ve brought it all upon yourselves.

  16. Dzorge Guru | August 26th, 2008 | 1:33 am

    WHEN THE COMMUNISTS TOOK OVER a country, one of the first things that they did was to confiscate all the privately-held weapons, to deny the people the physical ability to resist tyranny. But even more insidious than the theft of the people’s weapons was the theft of their history. Official Communist “historians” rewrote history to fit the current party line. In many countries, revered national heroes were excised from the history books, or their real deeds were distorted to fit Communist ideology, and Communist killers and criminals were converted into official “saints.” Holidays were declared in honor of the beasts who murdered countless nations.
    I am not anti-Chinese people, rather anti-Chinese government. Regarding the government it’s a military mafia controled government. Under which it’s own citizens even cannot enjoy the basic rights of freedom of speach, freedom of gathering, freedom of publication, freedom of equal access to the law……..As a tibetan from Chinese colonized Tibet, I know how they rule Tibetans by brutal oppression and forces, seemingly they pass out many policies concerning Tibetan people, but in reality Tibetans are not ruled by the policies rather by those mafias. Therefore, the only ulternative choice for Tibetans is to get rid of Chinese rule and have their own country.
    Rangzen Daxi Xoh!

  17. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 7:24 am

    RICH,

    You’re the first Tibet lover I’ve ever heard say that it has nothing to do with the Dalai Lama. Every other Tibet lover is urging Beijing to speak to him.

    Also, why all the racist attacks on the Chinese people. You don’t see the pro-China posters resorting to classless stereotypes about Tibetans (and there are plenty). Just look at the choice of words here from the Tibetans and Tibet lovers: “spawn, “cockroaches”, and “filthy”. Keep trying to de-humanize the Chinese people, it will not promote Chinese-Tibetan relations nor result in better treatment for Tibetans in Tibet. Amongst the Chinese, the Tibetan Freedom movement is lately just identified with Anti-Chinese racism and promoting Western prejudices against the Chinese.
    Good job!!! That will help your cause.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/4975/

    As for your Tibetan self-determination argument. Get in line!! There are 80 other groups ahead of you and Tibet doesn’t even legally register with any country. And Chinese dynasties last centuries. So keep dreaming about China falling apart, it won’t happen in your lifetime.

  18. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 7:41 am

    DAWA wrote:

    “My only hope is that the people you subjugate will become more violent and make your life so miserable that you will find it not worthwhile to hold on to their places any longer.”

    Great DAWA, start promoting terrorism. That’s really going to help your cause. You can’t defeat the PLA. They have a budget 40 times bigger than the Israeli’s and they are free to use even more brutal anti-terror tactics than the Israelis. All terrorism will get you is a frozen bank account!!

  19. Rich | August 26th, 2008 | 7:47 am

    I know quite well that nothing good will come of Beijing speaking to HHDL’s representatives, much less speaking directly to him which will never happen in the first place. It’s all a game by Beijing to keep people quiet in “wishful thinking” that it will happen. But if you listen to HHDL’s own words, you’ll hear him say again and again that his is not an issue of his personal status or his return to Tibet, but an issue of the rights of a people and the roughly 6 million individuals that encompasses. You cannot judge Tibetans’ rights based on the political efficacy of the Dalai Lama. So you know, the same westerners who “love Tibet” and spend all their time talking about how China needs to have dialogue with HHDL also believe that “silence is more powerful than words” and that they can levitate buildings through prayer. Sweet but stupid people who are doing much more harm than good for the cause.

    John, if you want to talk about furthering prejudices against Chinese people, you need look no further than yourself. By coming to Tibetan blogs and posting anti-Tibetan comments that dutifully echo party line, you paint your people out to be brainwashed and blindly pro-government. I will acknowledge that there are probably many Chinese who are not like this, especially in the poor and rural areas of China which the West has little access to, but the vast vasy majority of Chinese I meet in the west and the vast vast majority of Chinese posting on the internet ARE brainwashed and pro-government. I’d love to see this change, but I’m not holding my breath. It’s a sad reality that China is like that, especially sad for the few (or many?) hidden good people of China who face backlash from their government of even their peers if they dare to dissent.

    Again, the easiest and best way for you to wipe away these prejudices would be to get out of Tibet, as quickly as possible.

  20. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 8:25 am

    RICH, wishful thinking will get you no where. China is never getting out of Tibet. Period. The US is never getting out of Hawaii or North/South Dakota or New Mexico. The sooner you stop day-dreaming, the sooner you can really help the long suffering people in Tibet.

    And the brainwashing argument is so weak and tiring. I work in the hedge fund industry and I travel Beijing-NY-WashDC-London 50 times a year. I have a Bloomberg terminal on my desk and I read news in real time. I’m not a puppet or mouth-piece of the CCP. I have an Ivy League education and a top MBA. I’m hardly brainwashed. Care to compare incomes and IRS returns?? So stop calling people who disagree with you brainwashed, it shows a real intellectual dishonesty and weakness.

  21. Rich | August 26th, 2008 | 8:38 am

    There are plenty of brainwashed people with Ivy League educations and MBA’s. Sadly ‘education’ these days is something that can be bought and has little to do with independent thinking or intelligence.

    My views have nothing to do with wishful thinking, a doctrine which I constantly criticize. Your thoughts could equally be described as wishful thinking: your life and wealth depend on China and you have a familiarity with and affinity towards China, and therefore you believe it will be strong and last forever. I believe you’re Chinese yourself too but I’m not sure. So it’s easy for you to overlook the fact that China is only politically “stable” because of the constant threat of brutality, that China is only economically “stable” by forcing a fifth of the world’s population to toil in poverty to hold up a few “modern” cities, and the China is only environmentally “stable” because it can rob Tibet (and Africa, etc.) once it finishes ruining its own environment. China will fall. It’s just a matter of time. And unless China gets out of Tibet, I’ll cheer on anyone who pushes China in the direction of collapse, simply because it means more of Tibet will be intact when the collapse comes.

    China will get out of Tibet because it will be left with no other choice. I hope that will happen peacefully for the sake of the many halfway-innocent Chinese, but I have no qualms about anyone using whatever means they find necessary to get China out when it comes down to it. If you love China so much, try getting China to do the right thing for its own people and for Tibet before it’s too late. Whatever suffering befalls China, it will be China’s own fault for the monster it has created.

  22. Jamyang Norbu | August 26th, 2008 | 8:39 am

    John
    You are brainwashed. The Communist Party puts on a massive publicity stunt and you Chinese have forgotten the millions who were deliberately starved by Mao, forgotten the Cultural Revolution, and even forgotten the Tienanmen Massacre. Just because you have been given the opportunity by the party to economically exploit Chinese labor, and poison their water and environment. I am sure your income is fantastic. Pathetic.

  23. Jamyang Norbu | August 26th, 2008 | 8:46 am

    John
    You are brainwashed. The Communist Party puts on a massive publicity stunt and you Chinese have forgotten the millions who were deliberately starved by Mao, forgotten the Cultural Revolution, and even forgotten the recent Tienanmen Massacre. Just because you have been given the opportunity by the party to economically exploit Chinese labor, and poison their water and environment. I am sure your income is fantastic. Pathetic.

  24. Rich | August 26th, 2008 | 8:50 am

    Yeah, the whole “let’s compare tax returns” thing made it pretty clear where “John’s” heart is. I won’t even go into the whole issue of his dirty line of business which, due to lack of regulation and transparency, quite likely invests directly in genocide.

  25. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 9:12 am

    When you call people who disagree with you brainwashed, you are only cheating yourself intellectually. It is the weakest argument one can make. And I work in the least labour intensive industry on earth. So nobody is being exploited, except maybe rich people. That’s why we are the highest paid on earth.

    If you really want to help Tibetans in Tibet. Stop with the racism or racist slurs against Chinese people. Shifts in Chinese government policy are generational. When the 6th or 7th generation of CCP leaders come into power in 30-50 years, hopefully they will relax controls on Tibet and grant more freedoms to Tibetans. The Dalai Lama will long be dead by then and the “Free Tibet” PR machine will long be drowned out by the multi-Billion dollar Chinese commercialism. The Tibetans in Tibet and Tibetans in exile will have nothing in common in 50 years. Think, north and south koreans. Nothing in common.

  26. Jamyang Norbu | August 26th, 2008 | 9:27 am

    Who’s the intellectual cheat? I put together a long list of all the deceptions and lies that Beijing perpetrated during the Games.You and the other Chinese who commented on this blog were unable to dispute a single one. All you could do was make childish comments about China winning and Tibet losing. Whatever money or medals you have right now, you lot are, in the moral sense, absolutely pathetic.

  27. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 9:44 am

    Jamyang Norbu, all governments are “deceptions and lies”. In case you didn’t know, all politicians lie from John Edwards to Chairman Mao. Do I really need to re-state the obvious and teach you the basics of how life works??

    The real point is what can you really do improve the lives and freedoms of Tibetans in Tibet ???

    Insult the Beijing Olympics which, 99%+ of Chinese people genuinely support — NOPE

    Use racist slurs and stereotypes to de-humanize Chinese poeple. (What does that win you?) — NOPE

    Call anyone with an opposiing viewpoint brainwashed — NOPE

    Pray every single day China collapses like the Qing Dynasty (GOOD LUCK !!!) — NOPE

    Like I’ve stated before, if you want real change in the lives of Tibetans for the better, you need to wait for the 6th/7th generation of Chinese leaders to assume power.

  28. Tsetop | August 26th, 2008 | 10:19 am

    I for one have protested against China’s holding games because of my concern about its human right situation and its occupation of Tibet. I never doubted about China’s ability to host this event considering they have a centralized system and money. I am sure even North Korea or Cuba if given a chance will match China in organizing and grandiosity in holding such an event. HOwever,If we consider Olympic to generate spirit of freedom and enhance core human values, then this Olympic has been a complete failure. There were times when IOC itself looked hijacked and trapped in Beijing’s Authoritarian grip.

    I am sure, now that the Beijing 08 is over, everyone in IOC and others must be breathing a sigh of relief and feeling themselves relieved at at last.

    I for one definitely felt that way. The arrival of British entertainers in that bus during the closing ceremony was itself such a fresh breath of air compared to all the steel faced chinese dancers and hundreds others strapped by wires pretending to be dancing while looking more like trying to free themselves from the strap.

  29. RELIGION IS POISON | August 26th, 2008 | 11:02 am

    Racial slurs is bad and should be avoided in this blog, I’ve spend a few years in the deep south, some racial slurs used by southerners actually made DAWA a little sweet saint in comparison.

    I disagree all the time with western commentators about the purpose of Olympic Games is about to legitimize the CCP regime argument, instead, it is to burry the last trace of xenophobia and isolation within the psyche of Chinese people, the past two weeks experience is a massive group therapy for Chinese people, I believe a new China will emerge on the world stage in the next decade. In terms of the collapse of China, no country or dynasty will last forever; but China is in the rising phase of the dynasty cycle. A country in prosperity with her people believe their country is on the right direction is the least likely one to revolt.

  30. Rich | August 26th, 2008 | 11:28 am

    John, your idea that your work is not exploitative because it’s not labor-intensive for you is preposterous. YOU are the one who is exploiting others. Not the rich people whose money you invest, but the people who are robbed of their natural resources, the rights, and their sovereignty by the investments you make in corporations and nations engaged in brutal and exploitative practices. The very fact that your work is not labor-intensive GUARANTEES that it is exploitative. The universe is a negative-sum game, physically speaking. The very fact that you’re getting a lot for doing almost nothing means that someone else is losing a lot to make it possible.

    As for your solution to “just wait”, that’s ridiculous too. Waiting without resistence means assimilation. It may take a long time, many years, many generations, or maybe even many centuries for Tibet to get independence. But perpetual resistence is essential so that, when the time comes, the opportunity can be seized. Waiting without resistence has no benefits. China will not magically become benevolent and stop genocidal population transfer incentives if Tibetans stop resisting. It will simply continue on its current course at a much greater speed, unimpeded by inconvenient talk about human rights and self-determination.

    While it could take many generations to achieve independence, I for one believe it will not be nearly that long. If you leave the issue unresolved and let the 14th Dalai Lama pass away, there will no longer be any restraint against Tibetans causing great harm to China and the Chinese people, and this will lead to a lot of suffering on both sides, and to massive destabalization of the Chinese state and a complete loss of legitimacy of the Chinese state when China retaliates. You should know well by now: no matter how hard China works on PR, it can never overcome the fact that it will always be seen as the villain in any clash with Tibet. Villains may be feared, but they are never respected. Is this the future you want for your beloved China?

  31. JOHN, Washington, DC | August 26th, 2008 | 12:15 pm

    RICH, What has 50 years of “resistance” achieved for Tibetans in Tibet?? What has all the racial slurs and Olympics bashing achieved for them?? The “Free Tibet” movement is suffering from a lot of “group think”. You guys need to come up with something new. If it isn’t working, maybe you should try something else. I don’t recommend Tibetan Terrorism because then you’ll immediately lose the PR battle and you’ll be no different than the Palestinians. For the past 50 years, “Free Tibet” has been much better at PR than the Chinese government. But the Chinese are learning Western marketing and they will only get better and stronger at it. One look at Chinese FHM and Maxim tells me they will do just fine.

    I won’t bother to explain my job. Just know everything in modern finance is done synthetically and economics is not a zero sum game.

    Why do you think not a single Olympic athlete openly stood up for Tibet?? How valuable is Michael Phelps to Nike if he’s banned from China. How can you get a promotion with IBM, Goldman Sachs or Coca-Cola et cetera if you are banned from traveling to China? The economic pressures going forward is on “Free Tibet”‘s side and not China’s. I wish you guys luck, but your chance of success is one in one thousand. Time is actually on China’s side.

  32. Jamyang Norbu | August 26th, 2008 | 12:29 pm

    What’s all this about racial slurs from John and Religion is Poison.Chinese reasons for taking over and keeping Tibet are the biggest racial slurs of all – that Tibetans were barbaric, backward, ignorant and that the Chinese are just helping them out.

    Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, during the American Civil War, insisted that slavery as it was practiced in the South was the best “form of government” for “those who are morally and intellectually unable to take care of themselves.”

    You Chinese should have received the gold medal for chutzpah.

  33. palden | August 26th, 2008 | 1:12 pm

    John might have an Ivy league education, he might not be brainwashed by particular agency including Chinese Communist regime, one thing is clear, even he gets his information from Bloomberg on live, but still the news is someone’s point of view and he is being cheated without realizing the fact, he does not realize that he is brianwashed simply because he is getting news from Bloomberg. I see a lot of mistakes and propaganda in those news, to be clear, I am from Tibet, stayed in India for a while, now in the US.
    John acknowledged that he is traveling to Beinjing-Lhondon-NY for 50 times, maybe john meant it just for information. HOwever, it could also be a subtle indication John is trying to tell us that he is very educated and can make his decision without outside influence. The fact is, John did not show his own research, rather a pieces of information that he got from his Bloomberg news. Anyway, John is an economic opportunist.

    The wrong view of John is, after 50 years, Tibetans in Tibet and outside Tibet will be totally different and nothing in common. That is a self-delusional view. What is the basis of such a statement? Since John is an Ivy-Legue MBA, every statement he makes must have a data to support his argument, but then where is the data in this instance? If no such a data to back up his statement, then he just has an MBA for the sake of making money, rather he does not have a brain to be critical thinking.

    Tibetan people are merged all over the glob from inside and outside Tibet, we are just one in unison after 57 years of Chinese occupation. China’s cultural destruction in Tibet did not alter the true culture and nature of Tibetans inside Tibet, in fact, they are more resilient. 57 years in exile, so called globalization and material lure did not change Tibetan’s culture and nature.

    The wrong view from John and like-minded westerners are, that Tibetan culture should only be preserved in museum coz it is being threatened by globalization and commercial interested.

    John’s view of China’s commerical power is something that will remain forever. Again, let invoke this Buddhist doctrine, nothing is permanent. So is the factors that luring foreign businesses into China will be gone in the future. Resources will be used, China the world factory will be an empty spot for poor Chinese live, while economic opportunist will turn somewhere else for their desire and money.

    John, if you care with the common people of CHina, then ask Chinese government to shut down all factories in those 10 most polluted cities of the world in China including Lanzhou and Beijing.

    Help those Chinese people who are fighting for their dignity and freedom such as Gao zhi sheng, hu jia and many more!

    Palden

  34. Rich | August 26th, 2008 | 3:24 pm

    John, why do you assume 50 years of resistence have been a failure? Just compare with East Turkistan or Inner Mongolia, or worse yet Manchuria, to see what Tibet could have become like if not for the unbreakable identity and resistence Tibetans have held onto for 50 years. Tibetans face the most brutal powerhouse colonizer on the planet, yet have managed to avert assimilation, and show no sign of giving up now.

    Resistence need not be aimed at sudden victory. Its aim is mere existence. Then, when the right time comes, victory is attainable.

    Furthermore, resistence is not asking the oppressor to give you what you want, but directly asserting what is yours, even if it comes at a great cost. In that regard, the 2008 uprising has achieved things which were probably unthinkable to most onlookers even just a few years ago, but which have been part of our long-term plan for a many years now. China’s hosting of the Olympics played a huge part in that. Anyone saying Tibet “failed” during the Olympics is grossly missing the point.

  35. RELIGION IS POISON | August 26th, 2008 | 4:14 pm

    Tony Blair’s opinion of Beijing Olympic Games.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121970878870671131.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

  36. Dawa | August 26th, 2008 | 8:12 pm

    Please give me a break. I just compared your spawning capacity with cockroaches’. I know cockroaches don’t go around stealing other people’s land and killing other people in any case. I thought the cockroahces would feel offended. You should feel proud. They are more decent creatures.
    You chinese can treat others the way you want and find nothing wrong with it but you are mighty sensitive about any little thing said about you. I have no word to describe you people.
    And threatening to freeze bank account for telling some truth? Well, too freaking bad for you that I don’t deal in your currency and have no desire to ever.
    Always the perpetrators of evil and then acting as though you are the victim. You hold grudge against the Japanese for what happened hundred years ago, and you make exaggerated museums to encourage hate towards the Japanese but you do worse things to your victims and expect other people to sympathise with you. The only reason you brutes have any crediblity is because of all unscrupulous politicians of the west. But people will wake up and when the right people lead the west they will no longer be stooges to you people and when that happens and when your air castles fall to earth there wil be people who rejoice. I regret having to argue in this manner but with you people there is no other way. You cultural-revolution, red-ribbon- decked, breathless -tuneless -singing-mob creatures deserve no civility. Just wait till your air castles drop to the ground or your peasants rise against you. So round eyed that your parents made some money and could send you to schools, probably to American schools. Ha. So much about China being so great. If you are great why do you have to come to the West to study? Why do you copy western electronics? Why do you dress in western clothes? Why? are you ashamed of your gowns and pigtails?
    Your own government didn’t think the culture you had before was wrong. What do you think of that government and the people like you who venerate it.

  37. Dawa | August 26th, 2008 | 8:18 pm

    Your own government did think the culture you had was wrong…

    Don’t praise your syphillitic Mao in front of me. He killed more people than Hitler and you people still worship him.

  38. Hugh | August 26th, 2008 | 10:47 pm

    John, Washington D.C.,

    You are an insult to the very D.C. which you have presumptuously assumed to include in your name. How would you like it if I called myself Bill Shanghai? I bet you would be decrying about the white supremacism of such an act, yet you think yourself fenqingy enough to allow yourself liberty to trash other cultures while your own dumbish smug fantasy of “China” should be held immune to criticism or insult.

    You feigned indignation is childish considering I have personally heard Chinese people call Tibetans “dogs” and “monkeys” “unfit for life” and I have heard many times as well how your people should kill them all and leave only museums to preserve Tibetan culture. A bunch of goddamned liars you all are. you remind me of the nazis saying things about the Jews. and when criticized they would decry the criticisms and then state boldly how civilized and humane they themselves were and how the Jews were merely vermin.

    I am not going to sit here and pretend that enemies of freedom are my friends. What are you going to do? Threaten me more than I have already been threatened by you morons? Yes, I call you all morons. Why is that? Because you refuse to think. Actually the ancient Greek word for a human who refuses to think would be “idiot” but I prefer “moron” because it expresses your dullness.

    I am less polite than many of the posters here. If I see a Tibetan throwing a rock at a Chinese soldier, I think “Hell Yeah! Shut it down!” The fact that the Chinese soldier can then shoot that Tibetan only tells me that that Tibetan should have had a gun instead. If this makes me warlike and unharmonious, so be it. Enemies of freedom do not have a right to decry any violence done to them since, by the very nature of their beliefs and anti-human ideals, they impose systems of violence on the rest of us.

    So John, can you refute any of Jamyang’s points? Or for that matter any of the points that Tibetans make in their determination to be free? Or are you just going to prattle on with the same self-serving spew you guys always go on about?

    Yeah, that’s what I thought. ………silence

  39. Hugh | August 26th, 2008 | 11:24 pm

    Addendum:

    To those Chinese nationalists, whether red or not, who claim that the western focus on human rights is a mere cultural imposition should study their history.

    The West was under the control of totalitarian theocratic states for much of the last 1500 years, and yet somehow, the spark of human dignity and freedom took hold and so many of us fought, bled and died for it, that here we are with the freedom to even contemplate such things openly without having to worry about being burned at the stake after being tortured for years for the crime of offending some imaginary being in the sky.

    What happened in the “West” since those times and since the horrors of colonialism is that some people in the West discovered the spark of dignity and freedom. Of individual human rights and self-determination. How improbable this was, and how lucky that it was enshrined into political and social ideals that now influence the cultures of the west. A common human idea and aspiration, shared by hundreds of millions throughout history across the world has now become celebrated and cherished by a significant portion of the human population. How precious this is. And those who would raise the idiocy of cultural arguments against this are only fooling themselves.

    Human rights and self-determination are actually morally superior. Not all cultural and moral ideas are equal. Sorry if this is a rain on the PC parade. I am not sorry if this is a slap to China’s face. Face? China has no face that doesn’t stick its nose up the ass hole of money.

  40. GyalpoT | August 27th, 2008 | 5:10 am

    Jamyang la’s article here puts the feelings of every single Tibetan into plain English; that there are only two kinds of Chinese in China, i.e., the deceivers and the deceived. It is amply proved that the deceived are arguably as vehement and vocal in their belief of the fiction that, “Tibet is an inalienable part of China” as can be demonstrated by the beating of Korean pro-Tibet marchers and the angry and vulgar outbursts of China government funded bloggers on the internet.

    Sadly, the lessons of the 2008 China Olympics have taught the world how to deceive and camouflage the cruel and sadistic intent of her tyrannical rulers. From the “pretty face” who couldn’t sing to the dressing up of Han Chinese as minority children, China inevitably is full of show and no moral substance.

    It is true that Tibetans once were slaves and beggars as were the Chinese themselves were till the early 20th century, but we were not morally as corrupt as the Chinese are. I’m confident that a Tibetan on the street has more moral and ethical aptitude that any Chinese leader in the CCP today.

    The occupation and enslaving of Tibet, inner Mongolia, East Turkistan and other minority nationalities are all about, robbing and stealing these peoples rich natural resources and not about “One world, one dream”. China has only one dream and that is to build a Han super race and to obliterate all other nationalities from the face of this earth.
    Hitler tried and failed, China will too!

  41. Phuntsok Jordhen | August 27th, 2008 | 12:27 pm

    Simply put, honestly we wish only happiness for the Chinese people, but we request China to please stop killing Tibetans, and please leave Tibet. Does that not make sense?

    ———
    Btw, I know the olympics is over, but I thought I’d share what human right activist Professor Johnny Su, recently said at a protest Toronto. roughly quoting from memory, he said, Beijing says “One World, One Dream”, CCP’s dream is to be the biggest power in the world, and completely control the people; their thoughts, words, actions, and dreams. CCP’s dream is actually a Nightmare. Besides how can billions of people around the world have the same dream. for example his personal dream, is that the CCP completely collapse, he hopes his dream comes true, for the sake of China and the entire world.

  42. Katie | August 27th, 2008 | 1:06 pm

    Dear Sir:

    My name is Katie Combs and I am an editorial assistant with an in-development Public Broadcasting Service world news program and its companion Web site. You can read more about the program in the New York Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/arts/television/20pbs.html?_r=1&ref=television&oref=slogin

    We are looking to develop a vibrant Web community and a strong network of bloggers from around the globe. In that vein, we are hoping to cross-post material from blogs such as yours, with full credit and links.

    If you would be open to cross-posting your content, please let me know! If you have any questions about Worldfocus or its Web site, please feel free to contact me.

    Thank you.

    Katie
    combsk AT thirteen DOT org

  43. Dava | August 27th, 2008 | 3:39 pm

    Hey, guys! Don’t let the united fronter 50 centers make you say bad things about the Han. Keep on target. It’s all about governance my dears. If you oblige them and get all hot and racist-sounding, they win. (Just like they win when they make you think that just because they rule the realm of Tibet-blog comments that every Han Joe thinks that way. Here’s news for you, perhaps. They don’t.) They succeeded well enough with that Falun Gong organ harvesting thing. Only anti-Chinese racists would believe a thing like that, don’t you know? Or maybe you don’t know? It’s all about credibiliy. If you start going on about pigs and roaches you lose all credibility. Find some other more effective way to express your anger please. The cause demands it, whatever else you might think it demands. And if you’re having problems with anger management, I could recommend some techniques that have proven effectiveness for over 900 years in Tibet. And I know of someone who teaches them better than anyone, although I’ve heard he’s been suffering from exhaustion, no doubt because he’s been doing more for the cause of Tibet than any of you guys ever will.

  44. Dawa | August 27th, 2008 | 4:49 pm

    Please hold it if you are talking about me. For one thing anger expressed against deserving cultrpits is no crime, and then you sound too new agey. You will be less so if you have more at stake.
    Keeping feigned or otherwise calm in such situation is no virtue rather it shows lack of spine. Whose pat on the head are you hoping for with this infuriating peace-beam-hog -tuf? Your rinpoche Steven Speilberg’s?
    I hate the chinese for several reasons and let me express it where I can. It’s not as though we are hitting them although I would if I could. And fyi i am hardly a Buddhist so don’t stuff your beliefs down my throat. In the real world your kind of people will need the help you are talking about.

  45. Dawa | August 27th, 2008 | 4:53 pm

    And FYI, I am not talking about hans. I don’t even know about those people. All I have beef against are the Chinese who stole my country and act as though people with my blood are their minority.

  46. RELIGION IS POISON | August 27th, 2008 | 5:08 pm

    Thank you DAVA @43, that’s a sensible opinion. I did not realize what I posted @1, 29, and 35 can remote control someone’s blood pressure upward that easily. Hey, I am independent; I don’t need Chinese government to subsidize my income to talk here, just want to learn something and talk back.

  47. tsering topgyal | August 27th, 2008 | 10:10 pm

    To all the John’s of the world.

    The reason why we Tibetans have not resorted to a normal reaction towards violence is due to our deep devotion towards H.H Dalai Lama.
    Unfortunately I do see a day when we Tibetans will resort to violence as we have been left with no other options.
    A violent struggle may not gain us independence nor win the PR battle!
    No one said that our fight was only to achieve independence…..it would simply be a normal reaction for our land stolen.

  48. Rich | August 28th, 2008 | 12:12 am

    Indeed, Tsering Topgyal’s words are very true. There are always meddlesome Chinese and Westerners too, scolding us along the lines of “You had better not use violence, or…”, and so on. What these peopel fail to understand is that it’s not “our” (as exile freedom fighters and supporters) choice to make. If or when violence happens, it’s the action of an individual person facing a desperate situation, a person who is likely not responsive to any leader, much less to ordinary folks like us.

    What the meddlers need to realize is that, with each day they prolong the occupation of Tibet through calls for inaction, the likelihood of violent outbursts keeps increasing…

  49. Dava | August 28th, 2008 | 3:37 am

    Which ever Dawa you are, at the moment you strike me as very stone agey, and not very pragmatic about arriving at any concrete goals. Your response goes toward proving my point. I’ll be happy if tolerance and compassion don’t go out the window. I see that as valid for every age and religion and philosophy. Tell me you’re young and hot blooded and I’ll do my best to take your age into account. But of course it was you who spat back about stuffing things down your throat. How did I do that exactly? Which of my words made it sound like that to you? Did you think I was talking about you? A little guilt playing out here, is there? Well, is there?

  50. Dava | August 28th, 2008 | 4:05 am

    18. All warfare is based on deception.

    19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

    20. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.

    21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.

    22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

    23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.

    New Agey stuff from The Art of War by Sun Tzu dished up especially for our friend Number One Dawa.

  51. Jamyang Norbu | August 28th, 2008 | 9:28 am

    Dava
    Your statment that only anti-China racists would believe Falun Gong charges about organ harvesting is the kind of “politically correct” view that prevails in pro-China circles. Another such view is that protests and demonstrations by exile Tibetans are only making things worse for Tibetans inside Tibet.

    Falun Gong does tend to overstate its case, but it is absolutely true that their members are being viciously persecuted by the PRC and that they deserve sympathy not sneers. By the way organ harvesting of prisoners is on the increase in China.

    When member of Jehovah’s Witness were locked up in Nazi concentration camps, there were people in the States who stated that the reports were exaggerated, or even that they only got what they deserved.

  52. Karma | August 28th, 2008 | 9:46 am

    to Tsering Topgyal

    Don’t worry Tsering Topgyala, we Tibetan are too coward to use violence. Now, Dalai Lama says “Tibet is part of China” We followers of Dalai Lama should say it together. However, China would not let us in Tibet forever no matter. One thing does matter “We Tibetans are deeply poisoned by religion. NO HOPE FOR A NEW TIBET.
    TIBET HAS TO BE FREE FROM CHINA AND FREE FROM RELIGION.

  53. Lobsang | August 28th, 2008 | 1:34 pm

    Bhoe Mi-Rhik la Rangzen gokpo yung washok!
    Gyalwa Rinpoche Kutse tritak ney tritak thuk shuk pa sho

    Bhoe Gyal-lo

  54. Dawa | August 28th, 2008 | 1:59 pm

    I am not surprised to see how rattled Dava is by my words, much more than by the Chinese killing Tibetans. It shows the depth of your tolerance. You patronise others about tolerance and all that new agey hogwash but when you are slightly insulted personaly you get nasty testy. Stone agey my foot. Stoned you are, but i don’t know on what.

  55. Dawa | August 28th, 2008 | 2:01 pm

    By the way…religion is poison thanks you. He is very gratified with your depth.

  56. Rich | August 28th, 2008 | 4:34 pm

    Dava, your condescending attitude towards Dawa is entirely inappropriate for a so-called supporter. Please acknowledge and respect Tibetans’ views about their country and their future rather than trying to hold HHDL over their heads, telling them they’re not helping Tibet, and acting like you think you’re more sophisticated than them. Leave that sort of behavior to the Chinese and their partners in crime.

  57. Dawa | August 28th, 2008 | 5:33 pm

    Thanks Rich. These types of insufferable hypocrites are almost as annoying as the chinese. If Dava finds that Machiavellianward bent chinese thought attractive then why postulate about tolerance! As for me I find plenty enough western and Indian philosophers who don’t advocate deceit.

  58. Dawa | August 28th, 2008 | 5:34 pm

    That was for post # 50

  59. Hugh | August 29th, 2008 | 5:56 am

    Dava,

    in #50, i am sure you had a point there somewhere. Would you be so kind as to make your point clearer the next time you post quotations from bad classics? (Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” may be cherished by many people, but I fail to see anything in the work that would not be known by the average person slightly educated with military tactics today. The fact that the work is hundreds of years old says little in regards to whether it is actually any good.)

    Karma,

    How about focusing on Tibet being free? Tibetans can deal with their religion when they have the space and liberty to do so, without everyone telling them this or that about it.

  60. RELIGION IS POISON | August 29th, 2008 | 11:50 am

    Hugh,

    The tactical discussion in The Art of War is certainly out of date but the strategic thinking part of that book is forever relevant to human beings; the essence of Sun Tzu’s philosophy is to avoid war at all cost, if possible, but prepared for one if unavoidable. The art of deception is particular of value for the weak against the strong, it’s a foundation of element of surprise; the torch relay protest by Tibetan supporters for example is a surprise to Chinese in terms of scale and impact. If I were the enemy of Tibetans in exile, I will worry about people like DAVA much more than DAWA.

  61. Dava | August 29th, 2008 | 1:33 pm

    OK. I see I don’t belong here. So I’m out of here. Have fun playing among yourselves. I’m not angry, just not happy with your company. I do support the Dalai Lama — only an inhuman idiot wouldn’t — and whatever kind of Tibet Tibetans want to have for themselves. Not you guys, especially. You’re not representative. So bye. And good luck. Just think it’s too bad J.N. is stuck talking with the likes of you. He deserves better.

  62. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | August 29th, 2008 | 2:35 pm

    Dava,

    I understand your point regarding the need to manage our anger.
    But is is not an easy thing to do!
    Especially when you know that Chinese will insult you for every tolerance and decency that you show towards them.
    I do understand your point about not making an enemy out of every Chinese.
    Unfortunately, it is as if most Chinese (especially Mr. John DC on this blog)are programmed to react pathologically to any real or perceived “attacks” on Han supremacy. Sadly, they seem have a congenital deficiency in recognizing the compromise & that we have shown toward them, and the sufferings that we Tibetans are being subjected to as a result of our big hearted nature.

    Having said that I don’t think it necessary for all bloggers to have exactly the same view point. For what is the point if we end up writing comments only to reassure each other?
    A blog comes alive we can gather information from different angles.
    So keep up your courage and continue to express your opinions frankly.
    As I see it, we Tibetans must learn to express ourselves clearly and frankly, and we must have the strength to defend ourselves ( thinking as well as our dialy way of life)under the oddest circumstances (for that is the environment that we are placed in unless the major powers sincerely support us…..

    I think we don’t have the luxury to run away from reality!

  63. Hugh | August 29th, 2008 | 4:06 pm

    Religion is Poison,

    I don’t doubt the tactical knowledge in the Art of War is relevant, just that it’s not so special. Deception and psychological tactics are common across all large scale societies that wage organized warfare. Surprise, the feigning of peace and infliction of terror against not only soldiers but also the social civilian base are ubiquitous tactics. Most large scale societies can wage war on the premise of ending the conflict as expediently as possible. Even avoiding actual violence if terror or demoralization could be used instead. (You can demoralize an opponent simply by destroying their economies and their ability to wage resistance. Use of these tactics were endemic in the USA’s several wars with native American nations, sadly to success. Many of these “wars” consisted of nothing more than destroying crops and food sources and killing enough non-combatants to break any morale.)

    The separation of overwhelming forces is an often used tactic of “weaker” opponents. Refer to the Finnish war with the Soviet Union just around WWII for an example of such tactics used successfully by a small nation which by all previous indications should have been swamped and destroyed.

    The tactical discussions in the Art of War are not special.

    However, I think my main thrust was toward Dava’s use of the quotes. I apologize if i was not clear on that.

  64. Dawa | August 29th, 2008 | 4:26 pm

    Religion is poison, I don’t try to cultivate your fear or your approval. I don’t like the Chinese and I don’t like those who excuse everything the Chinese do. I will do everything in my power to undermine China and hope there are enough like me who feel the same. I have friends who don’t buy made in china because of ME.
    And I won’t expand my energy on you and your wretched machiavellian philosophers. There is John Locke, Rousseau etc.

  65. Rich | August 29th, 2008 | 4:29 pm

    Dava, the views expressed here are fairly representative of what you’ll find among educated and politically aware Tibetans across Tibet and around the world. I’m sorry that your idea of Tibetan views is limited to what westerners tell you about how Tibetans are a bunch of passive Bodhisattvas.

    With that said, I would strongly recommend reading the Art of War to all Tibetans and supporters: not necessarily to follow its principles, but to understand Chinese philosophy and how their tradition praises subjugating others through deception. With the Art of War in mind, one can think much more clearly about what sort of tactics will work against an empire run by its precepts.

  66. RELIGION IS POISON | August 29th, 2008 | 4:57 pm

    Not a bad idea, Rich.

  67. Rich | August 30th, 2008 | 2:24 pm

    JN, is there a good way I can contact you outside the blog? Feel free to use my email address attached to this comment if you don’t want to post in public.

  68. sharma patel | September 4th, 2008 | 4:37 pm

    Perhaps a fruitful discussion being shall comprise the following tenets. On matter of lies it now appearing that Middle Way being made forth as Lie by China insincere duplicitiousness nature.

    Therefore on the table for discussion is detailed and forthright discussion of exactly which tactics proferrable to be made while still avoiding international designation as “terrorist” which shall be unbecoming to notable and noteworthy goal. What limits to the movement shall be assigned, if any.

    Future of China-catering on international scene resulting in terror designation to noteworthy group as Chusi Gangdruk et al should be unfair and unbecoming detriment to maximizing optimalized use of leverage of every means against China butchers.

    Therefore the frank discussion should occur on internet sites so Tibetan youth worldwide will clearly perseive the exact standards to which to be held…as various mosquitos have not luxury of mosquito training guidebook.

    “We are realistic enough to accept that there will be deaths…on both sides.”

    -Lhasang Tsering

    Anyone body?

    -sharma the bumble bee

  69. Hugh | September 6th, 2008 | 12:24 am

    Sharma,

    No matter what China or the kowtowed nations choose to call it, when a Tibetan throws a stone at a Chinese soldier, I think of that man or woman as a freedom fighter. Human dignity cannot be silenced, though sometimes it appears to be. Do I care for the soldier who just had his head cracked? Sure. Enough to tell him to go home to his own country.

    And to the Fenqings who post here,

    China, what part of freedom do you not understand? And if you cannot understand it, then you will be simply pay the price when your empire collapses. You cannot defeat human dignity. The West was under the thrall of such powers as yours and we were able to put a stop to the BS, finally. We were mad with tyranny, and this even caused the West to try to conquer the world. Yet, many of us stood up and brought that shit down to the ground. So China, what are YOU going to do about it? When are YOU going to grow up and join the human race. The human race, not the Han Fenqing race.

    I won’t suggest what Tibetans should do to get their country back, but I will amplify their voice. I know what dispossession is like, and I won’t be fooled.

  70. Billk | September 11th, 2008 | 1:29 am

    Hugh,

    The fenqing really do not understand many of the basic concepts of political/ moral discourse, especially those concering rights, responsibilities, privileges and freedoms. One might speculate that the Chinese education system is geared towards producing that very outcome.

  71. sharma patel | September 14th, 2008 | 3:43 pm

    Hugh,

    Throwing stones very noble hearted and generating in me the big sympathizing. But is not effective method of freedom fighting.

  72. sharma patel | September 14th, 2008 | 3:50 pm

    More on stone throwing:

    True freedom fighter throws stone at soldier out of love and not hate. So Hugh you are wrong to say you only care enough to tell him to go home. I tell him go home because I love him, love Chinese, love Tibetan people, love God and country…so out of love his head get cracked with deep sad heart. He don’t belong in Tibet and his China people needs him at home. Head cracked from too much love…love for the Tibetan women this soldier would rape…love for lamas he would torture…love for him so lost in confusion. But still need tactical better than stone throws. Maybe Che Guevarra said true revolutionary guided by love? Ha ha. Funny to quote that man is it not?

  73. Hugh | September 19th, 2008 | 6:30 am

    Sharma Patel,

    Love is good, tactically. To be sure. But love of one’s self and life, and those loved-ones, and their freedom and dignity is the core. We need to take care to not allow common love for fellow humanity turn into some sort of moral equivalency between aggressors and victims in a systematic conquest by such aggressors.

    Of course my choice of the image of a Tibetan throwing a stone at a Chinese soldier is deliberate. And I did explain that I feel that the Tibetan should be better armed. But we shouldn’t knock the power that even such an act as throwing a stone at a soldier implies. It means someone has had enough. They have gotten desperate and are willing to spark something off. Today, the stone throwers are rounded up and beaten, if not killed yet. But how many who witnessed such a thing are now thinking about the future and the many more possibilities to act in defiance of fear?

    Tibetans will decide which tactics will be tried. And they will learn on the ground, as all people in a struggle learn, how to apply these and change them to suit themselves.

    Love the Chinese soldier if you must. But don’t get fooled by that love when such a soldier can cause you more harm and grief. The greatest weapon of the tyrants is their tolerance of pacifists.

  74. sharma patel | September 20th, 2008 | 1:15 pm

    Hugh,

    This words are the well spoken eloquency of impassioned good man. I am feeling you are brother to good struggle of Tibet. Comrades in Delhi inform me freedom struggles not need resorting to baseness of cruelty in torture and rape but do feel needfulness of armed struggle. I pray to holy God that immediate loss of life will being long run greater stabilities. Problem being when whole world lie and say Tibet part of China how to do the armed insurgent so needful? You seem wise. Do answer if have idea.

    Yours brother,

    Sharma Patel

  75. Murphy | September 22nd, 2008 | 5:35 am

    Tashi Dele,

    What ignorance! Anyway, fun reading, especially the die-hard “F”-word supporters!!! By the way, any of you “F”s even Tibetan? Any of you ever been to Tibet? Speak Tibetan? Really, people, pack it in and peddle another cause some place, the Tibetans really DO NOT need you…

    Om mani padme hum

  76. Rich | September 22nd, 2008 | 6:14 pm

    Murphy, what “F word” are you talking about? I’m just trying to make sense of your comment which seems to be completely out of context..

  77. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | September 22nd, 2008 | 8:56 pm

    Murphy,

    Many of us on this blog are Tibetan and speak Tibetan.
    And we appreciate the intelligent, thought provoking articles and arguments put forth by the bloggers regarless of whether they are Tibetan or not, or whether they speak Tibetan or not.

    But we do not have the time to read unsubstantiated angry outpour like the one that you just made.
    If there is something that you wish to put across to us here, could you be more specific and provide some granularity to your arguments?

    I for one would like to know the reason behind so much anger and rudeness expressed in your comment above.

    Lejotsang

  78. sharma patel | September 27th, 2008 | 10:08 pm

    Murphy,

    Please be going a wee bit easier on the ale as the commenting reading like drunkenness stupor of stupidity. Ignorance can not be much accused of brethrens here excepting a few of the Chinese imposters. “F” word nonsense as no commenting to be found but in interest of lending credence to the argumentation you solicit, Patel will say: “F” China!

    Most very sincerely,

    Sharma Patel

  79. Rich | September 27th, 2008 | 10:40 pm

    Reading it again, I think the ‘dirty’ “F word” Murphy is referring to in his drunken and barely intelligible post is “freedom”. And with that, I don’t think he even deserves a reply. Since freedom is such a dirty concept to him, what he deserves is to be locked up himself and subjected to the lack of it, to see if that makes him happier. But thankfully for him, civilized people have higher standards. Our friends in Tibet are not so fortunate of course.

  80. Tsering Ringzin | October 3rd, 2008 | 4:19 am

    Dear Golok Ambum la

    I wonder if like myself and other contributors you are puzzled by the postings made by Sharma Patel. As noted previously the English used by this person has a curious nature. Having been born and schooled in India I have never heard any Indian use English in such a convoluted and mangled fashion.

    Can it be that Sharma is putting this on for some strange reason? I trust he understands that this is an important and serious forum on major issues for all Tibetans. If he is unable to contribute sensible comments, then one would ask him to please respect the discussions here and find another place to display his humour.

Post a comment