KYEGU, ON MY MIND

 

When I saw photographs of the tough, determined looking monks digging through the ruins of Kyegu town, I was struck by a sense of helplessness and frustration. Probably, some of you readers felt that way too. I wanted to be out there with those monks, helping to find survivors in the rubble, or at least unearthing the bodies of those that had perished — cleaning them up, restoring some dignity to them, before taking them away to be cremated.

The only thing I could actually do that was perhaps faintly comparable, in a feeble academic sort of way, was to go through my library and my notes and dig up all the information, geographical, historical, ethnological, cultural — everything I could — on the people and land where the earthquake had struck. I wanted, in my minds eye, to see all those who had perished there not as faceless victims, but as actual, flesh-and-blood individuals, with real lives and stories, and try to establish the role that they, their forbears, and their homeland or phayul had played in the ongoing story of the Tibetan people and civilization.

The area where the earthquake struck is known as Ga Kyegudo (spelled skye rgu mdo or skye dgu mdo), the Ga or Gaba (sga-pa) being name of the people of the area. Khampas tend to pronounce Kyegudo as Jyekudo or Jyegundo, softening the hard “k” sound to a softer “j or “ch”. They also do this in the case of the official title “dzasak” which Khampas pronounce as “chassak”. “Jyegundo is sometimes contracted to Jyegu, or these days, to the more sinicized Jiegu. One explanation I have come across for the name Kyegu is that it is a contraction of  “kyelwa gu” or nine lives. The claim being, I suppose, that one life lived in these beautiful and blessed grasslands is as fulfilling as nine lives lived elsewhere. But there are other explanations.

The suffix “do” denotes that the place in question is located at the confluence of two rivers, as in Chamdo, Dhartsedo and so on. In the case of Kyegudo the two rivers or streams are the Dza-chu and the Peltang-chu. The broad geographical description of the whole territory is Kham-toe, or Upper Kham.

The region in which Kyegudo is located, is nowadays called Yushu. Tibetans claim the name is derived from “yul shul“  or “yul gi shul“,  literally, “vestigial land” (of the Ling Gesar epics).  Yulshul is the land where Gesar’s beautiful queen Singcham Drugmo was born and where her father Ga Tempa Gyaltsen ruled. Because of this connection with Gesar’s queen, Drugmo, the women of Yushu have the reputation of being beautiful and regal.

Historically, the Yushu area became part of the Tibetan empire at the time of Songtsen Gampo. With the fall of the empire in the ninth century this area like the rest of Tibet broke apart into separate tribes and principalities. In the middle of the 12th century the region was united under Trebo Alu, the first king of Nangchen, and Yushu was incorporated into the Nangchen kingdom. The name Nangchen is said to be a contraction of nanglon-chenpo, as the descendents of an eminent (chenpo) and inner (nang) minister (lonpo) of the Tibetan emperor settled in the region. The Nangchen kings ruled over 18 inner tribes and 25 outer tribes. The Gaba tribe belong to the latter category. Nangchen was one of the six kingdoms of Kham, the others being Chagla (Dhartsedo), Derge, Lhatok and Lingtsang and Mili.

With Manchu colonial expansion into high Asia, Yushu came under the nominal control of the amban at Sining. But the growth of Chinese Muslim (Ma) military power in Gansu at the beginning of the last century further weakened traditional Tibetan rule in the region and a Muslim garrison was established at Kyegudo in 1915. In1928 the Chinese Nationalist government established Qinghai as a province and some areas of Gansu, including Yushu, were incorporated within it. Since 1951, Kyegudo has been the capital of “Yushu Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture” which an official handbook tells us consists of six counties, 121 monasteries and with a population of 237,000 people. The town of Kyegudo has a population of 37,000.

Kyegudo has traditionally been one of the most important centers and crossroads for trade and commerce in Tibet. It is the hub of many important routes. One road leads to Lhasa via the nomad center of Nagchu. Another leads to Chamdo and Derge. One road north leads to Kumbum and Sining, while an adjacent route goes to Tsaidam and Mongolia. But the most valuable route is one that runs from Kyegudo to Dzachukha, Kanze and finally Dhartsedo. This route is called the Chang Lam, as it is the northernmost routes from Dhartsedo to Lhasa. It is also called the Jha Lam, since most of the tea imported to Tibet is transported from Dhartsedo to Kyegudo and finally Lhasa.

I interviewed a Lithangwa who had worked on the yak caravans from Dhartsedo to Kyegudo and Lhasa. He told me that about 100, 000 (bum chik) yak loads (jha-khyel) of tea were transported through Kyegudo from Dhartsedo every year. About 60,000 loads were taken down to Lhasa and Central Tibet, the rest distributed to other areas of Amdo, Tsaidam and Mongolia.

Silks, brocades, chinaware, khatags, dhar, metalwork from Derge, medicinal plants, fine woolen material from Central Tibet, cotton cloth, cigarettes and other goods from India also passed through Kyegudo. The more valuable and expensive products were transported by mules. Some raw wool, untanned hides, and, of course, all of all tea, were carried on the back of yaks.

My informant told me that mule caravans took about three months from Dhartsedo to Lhasa, but yak caravans took at least ten months, if all went well. It could take longer, what with the snow, the incredible cold of the Changtang, and the occasional bandit. He boasted that many of these caravans were enormous, some easily consisting of 3000 yaks. The missionary, Susie Rijnhart writes of an encounter (in 1897) in the northern grasslands “We met immense caravans of yaks with loads of tea from Jyékundo, as many as 1,500 and 2000 yaks in each caravan, with the merchants well-dressed and well-mounted, and drivers some of whom were women and girls.”

Although Kyegudo was, in the past, not a large town, many Tibetan merchants had permanent homes there. Quite a few of the townspeople were also nomads, and moved back and forth from a nomadic existence to an urban one, taking advantage of both worlds. In the decade before the invasion Kyegudo became enormously rich and prosperous. Some Chinese merchants lived there too, but probably found it difficult because of the altitude and cold. This is probably why the present population of the place is 97% Tibetan, as I understand. The prosperity of Kyegudo depended not only on it being a vital hub of trade in Tibet, but also as the surrounding grasslands could sustain the enormous herds of yaks necessary for transportation.

The French ethnologist Andre Migot who visited Kyegu in 1946 noted “the real wealth of the region reside in its grasslands.” He also wrote how enormous the herds of yaks were that lived of the pasturage, and how wealthy the herdsmen were. In spite of the altitude (3700 metres) and the short-lived summer, barley, beans and various vegetable crops do very well there.

Dhondup Ling Sakya monastery, on the hill behind the old town, is the main monastery in Kyegudo. The site was consecrated by Drogon Chogyal Phagspa, spiritual preceptor to Kublai Khan.  Outside the town is the famous Gyanak Mani, the largest mendong, or mani-stone mound in Tibet, or, for that matter, the world.  Nearby are the two Karma Kagyu monasteries, Domkar and Trangu. Other Kagyupa monasteries as Zurmang, the monastery of Chogyam Drungpa Rimpoche and Benchen monastery of Chime Trulku, are further away.

Nearly all these monasteries were destroyed following the great Khampa Uprising of 1956, when the tribes in the region rose up against the Communists. During the Cultural Revolution what was left was razed to the ground. The sacred stones of the Gyanak Mani were used for paving-stones and to construct latrines for the Chinese military and civil personnel.

In mid-summer when the grasslands are covered with red blue and yellow wildflowers – mile after mile of a kind of rainbow carpet – nomads from all over the region, some as far away as Nagchu come together for a major annual gathering. This event can perhaps be best described as a happy fusion of multiple picnics, a week-long party, community dancing, religious observation, informal beauty parade, and an exciting horse festival, where the men (all dressed to the nines) show off their sensational equestrian skills. This marvellous gathering is held at Barthang, a wide plain twenty kilometers south of Kyigudo town, at the confluence of the Peltang chu and another stream the Zi chu.  Further south the river joins the Drichu or the Yangtze river.

Andre Migot was astonished at the sea of richly decorated tents that covered the plain. He noted that the tents were spacious and comfortably furnished with rugs, ottomans, low tables and even family altars, and that there were also attached kitchen tents which had everything necessary to prepare a feast.

“Nowhere in the world can a public holiday produce a more remarkable spectacle.”

Note:  Check out Michael Palin’s travel documentary, HIMALAYA (BBC) on disc 2 program 4, for wonderful scenes on nomadic life and the Horse Festival at Kyigudo. You can rent it from Netflix. Also Check out www.rangzen.net for a photo essay on the “Horsemen of Kyigu”.

Comments

  1. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | April 24th, 2010 | 11:00 pm

    Hi JN la great article. this will give a lot of people open eye experince.

    To be honest have learnt so much from my Ex-girl about Kyegudo when we were together 12 years ago. I have never been there but I know it is beautiful nomadic area and people are so kind, simple and sympathetic.

    When I first time heard horrible news I just didn’t know what to do and my whole body was shaking and I start to call my family in Tibet if they know anything about it. Then I learnt that Tibetans across the country are shocked and they were already collecting donations and some people voluntarily donating their time and efforts to help EQ victims.

    I am so appreciated all the Tibetans inside and out side came together when times like this helping our brothers and sisters EQ area. They really needs our support emotionally and financially. I really wish that I can be there to do something but unfortunately some of us living outside the country and we won’t be able physically be there but as we all know there so many ways that we can help, donate money, asked other organization to help, contact whoever capable of help, call whoever you know let them know that we are here with them, send letter to even those monks and nuns helped so much to appreciate their altruism and selflessness. And of course, we also can keep praying for those who tragically left us.
    I actually don’t like say that this happened because of our Karma. But if this isn’t our Karma then why this happened on us. Some people say this is nature disaster and it is nobody’s failure. It still difficult or awkward to except because 3000 lives is too much. And I am confused….
    However, this is the time we as Tibetans stand heart by heart and hand by hand to overcome this nature’s tragic treatment.

  2. A Salar | April 25th, 2010 | 12:44 am

    Jamyang La,

    I really enjoy your work when you write in your best scholarly mode. Just want to share a few pieces of information relevant to your topic. The presence of Muslim traders in Jyekundo long proceeded the Ma army garrison you mentioned. Indeed, one of the most traveled ancient trading routes out of Central Tibet ran through Jyekundo to the Tang capital of Chang’an (today’s Xian), on which King Songtsen Gampo brought Princess Wencheng to Lhasa (there is a monastery to honor her, which was not damaged because it was located fifty kilometers away on the other side of the maintain from the Gyanak Mani).

    Of the six-thousand some Muslims currently residing in Jyekundo, only sixty-two died in the earthquake. That is, the death toll for Muslims is one percentage point lower than the two percent ratio in the total population. The only Mosque in town stands firmly without any major damage. Almost none of the Muslims work in the public sector, thus few if any live in these better-built government structures that still stand today (and that is why most Muslims are not registered with the government and did not count in the reported total population). That says a lot about the quality of our craftsmanship. Also, the sixty-two dead were quickly transported back to their hometowns on the edge of Amdo for religious burial, organized by our Imams through the network of our own trucking industry. That speaks volume about the power of religion or religions, as it is also testified by the role that thousands of Tibetan monks have played in the rescue process.

    In contrast, it’s just too bad, as our folks told me, that the Han migrants unaffiliated with government organizations got the short end on two fronts–no initial government support because they were merely private migrant workers, nor organized religious support because they don’t have one there. They are mostly poor peasants from Sichuan, Qinghai, and Guansu. But we are praying for them, and hope you guys here can also join us.

    Peace

  3. Gyatso | April 25th, 2010 | 1:58 am

    A great pleasure to see JN’s master piece on this eathquake. _From a tibetan student in china.

  4. jigme | April 25th, 2010 | 6:44 am

    JN
    You said there were 6 kingdoms in Kham. I presume you included Minyak of ancient times, the one destroyed by chenghiz Khan in the 13th century and referred to as Xixia by the chinese or the Tangut Kingdom because as far as I know with my limited knowledge the Minyak as we know it today did not have a king since then .the geographical location of todays minyak doesnt exactly match the one of old so could we presume they were descendants of these guys but hat to move out coz Chengiz had decided to slaughter all of them?

  5. jigme | April 25th, 2010 | 6:48 am

    I mean the other 5 kingdoms were well and kicking right up to the time the commies came and chucked them out.

  6. Jamyang Norbu | April 25th, 2010 | 10:38 am

    Salar
    I agree there were Muslim merchants in Kyegudo, before the establishment of the Gansu Muslim garrison in 1915. Muslims have been great traders in Tibet. Your reminder that in ancient times the route from Lhasa to Chang’an went through Kyegudo, is appreciated.

    Of course, my prayers are with all those who perished in the earthquake, Tibetan, Muslim or Chinese. The sad thing is, as you pointed out, the poorer Chinese always get the short end of the stick. It has always been the history of Chinese people, and won’t change until the Communist/Fascist party is overthrown.

    Jigme,
    Thanks for pointing out the error. I might have been thinking of Mili, which had a king (gyalpo) who was also a celibate lama. The children of the lama’s brother (or sister perpetuated the royal lineage).

    The region of Minyak (not Ga Minyak) was within the rule of the Chagla kings, although the rulers of Chagla are said to be descendents of the earlier rulers of Minyak.There is a theory that Minyak (in Kham) is so called as it was settled by exile princes from Ga Minyak or Xixia, fleeing Jhengiz Khan’s destruction of the Tangut empire. Even the Sikkim royal family, which claim descent from Minyak, are possibly the descendents of Tangut princes.

  7. བསྟན་འཛིན་ཉིན་བྱེད། | April 25th, 2010 | 6:30 pm

    རྩོམ་པ་པོ་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ནས་སྐྱེ་རྒུ་མདོའི་ལོ་རྒྱུས་ཧ་ཅང་སྙན་པོ་ཞིག་བྲིས་གནང་འདུག་པར་སྙིང་དབུས་ནས་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ་ཞུ་རྒྱུ་ཡིན། རྩོམ་ཐུང་དེ་བཀླགས་རྗེས་དངོས་ནས་རྒྱ་གུང་བྲན་ཏང་མ་སླེབས་སྔོན་གྱི་རང་དབང་ཅན་གྱི་སྐྱེས་རྒུ་མདོའི་ས་ཁུལ་དེ་གང་འདྲ་ཡོད་མིན་གྱི་ཚོར་བ་ཤུགས་ཆེ་ཞིག་སྟེར་བྱུང་། ད་ལྟའི་ཆར་བོད་ས་ཁུལ་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་རྒྱའི་བཙན་དབང་འོག་ཡོད་ཅིང་། ས་མིང་དང་ལུང་མིང་ཚང་མ་རྒྱ་སྒྱུར་བྱེད་བཞིན་ཡོད་སྟབས་བོད་གངས་ཅན་ལྗོངས་ལ་འགྲོ་རྒྱུའི་ཚོར་བ་མེད་པ་མ་ཟད་བོད་འདི་བཞིན་རང་གི་ལུང་པ་མིན་པའི་ཚོར་བ་ཞིག་འདུག

    ཡིན་ནའང་བོད་བཙན་འཛུལ་མ་བྱས་གོང་གི་ལོ་རྒྱུས་འདི་འདྲ་བ་ཐོས་སྟབས་བོད་གངས་ཅན་ལྗོངས་འདི་རང་ཉིད་ཀྱི་ཁྱིམ་ལུང་ཡིན་པའི་ཚོར་བ་ཕྱིར་འཁོར་གྱིས་བོད་འདི་ཉིད་གང་མྱུར་རྒྱའི་བཙན་འོག་ནས་བཅིངས་གྲོལ་དགོས་པའི་འདུན་པ་སྐྱེས་བྱུང་།

    ལྷག་པར་དུ་འདྲ་པར་དེ་༷ཚོ་སྙིང་རྗེ་པོ་ཞེ་དྲགས་འདུག

    སླར་ཡང་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ་ཞུ།

    བསྟན་འཛིན་ཉིན་བྱེད།

  8. Pema | April 25th, 2010 | 7:57 pm

    I was expecting a good post from JN on Kyegudo.

    Very informative piece.

  9. Tibetan Mastiff | April 26th, 2010 | 8:42 am

    Jamyang Norbu La, Christophe La and dear friends,
    Check this out, This is the time and Tibetans inside Tibet are in action, taking the leadership of the MOVEMENT, the BIG MOVEMENT, advise us what we can do:

    http://www.highpeakspureearth.com/search/label/Shogdung

  10. Tibetan Mastiff | April 26th, 2010 | 8:57 am

    Dear Jamyang Norbu La and Christophe La,
    I send these to you for your research:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/26/tibetan-writer-detained-quake-critique/

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7108169.ece

    http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-47997320100426

  11. Tibetan Mastiff | April 26th, 2010 | 10:01 am

    http://www.khabdha.org/?p=8347

  12. Tibetan Mastiff | April 26th, 2010 | 10:04 am

    WOESER BLOG:

    http://woeser.middle-way.net/

    BAOXUN:
    http://news.boxun.com/news/gb/china/2010/04/201004261944.shtml

    LONDON GUARDIAN:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/26/tibetan-writer-detained-china-earthquake-critique

    Tibettimes:
    http://www.tibettimes.net/news.php?showfooter=1&id=2625

  13. T.D | April 26th, 2010 | 10:05 am

    I enjoyed reading this informative essay on Kyi gu do. Thank you very much.

    Wherever there is muslim community, there is a war or a kind of conflict. I hope this will not happen in Tibet in future. Buddha bless Tibet.

  14. A Salar | April 26th, 2010 | 12:29 pm

    T.D.

    I am shocked, but not surprised, that in a time of great tragedy and mourning for all victims of the earthquake, you sink so low as to violate basic human decency and sow racial hatred–and one that target the entire Muslim community. Clearly you have no respect for Buddha and the civilized discourse in which JN and I are engaged. So, let me play the devil’s advocate to talk tough in YOUR language so that you can understand what you were talking about.

    Do you want to take on one billion more people in addition to the Han Chinese? If you are truly heroic in your self-deluding chauvinism and want to take extremist action, I suggest that you follow the example of those suicide bombers to blow yourself up, perhaps best in the middle of Tiananmen Square. “Islamic” or not, these suicide bombers at least have the guts to kill themselves for martyrdom. Do you? You coward!

  15. tsering | April 26th, 2010 | 1:24 pm

    This sweeping generalization of muslims everywhere is a sign of immaturity on her(T.D) part and also a lack of basic research. I hope she grows up soon leaving her emos behind and learns from here to see things clearly.

  16. Dave | April 26th, 2010 | 2:42 pm

    TD’s remarks may have generalized too much about Muslims but still expressed the wish that there would be no conflict between Tibetans and Muslims in the future. It was A Salar who ignored this wish and started talking about suicide bombings and “taking on” a billion Muslims before calling TD an unpleasant name.

    I know very little about the Salars, but I know that the Muslim Uighyurs suffer terribly under Chinese oppression, just as the Tibetans do. These two nations should work together to free themselves of Chinese domination. A Salar seems to be trying to create conflict between Tibetans and Muslims, which can only harm both groups. I wonder if that’s his main purpose in taking part in the discussion here.

  17. Kalsang Phuntsok | April 26th, 2010 | 3:27 pm

    We should be wary of any kind of fundamentalism. Be it Buddhist fundamentalism or Muslim fundamentalism.

    T.D. and I don’t always agree and I think her generalisation of Muslims is a case of oversimpllification of the reality. Nontheless, there is some truth in her comment.

    I don’t want to turn this site in to a platform to debate on religion. I am not a religious person and I am strongly against organized religions. I am just a human being.

    We should not fool ourselves into believing that all the world religions are the same and deserve equal treatment in intellectual discourse. They obviously don’t always teach the same values and whereever they do they don’t teach them equally well.

  18. T.D | April 26th, 2010 | 3:47 pm

    Salar
    From any angle, I noticed that you are always ready to react at slight provocation. And you are boasting your fellow muslims’ support. Still you are claiming yourself as someone very civilised and mature.

    And here is what you just said “these suicide bombers at least have the guts to kill themselves for martyrdom. Do you? You coward!”

    Oh yes, are you suggesting me to be a terrorist by blowing myself among innocent Chinese people?

    In my culture, killing innocent is not considered martyor. It is an act of pure cowardice. We have a saying; Angry at Yak, Kicking the dog. (ཚིག་པ་གཡག་ལ་ཟ། རྡོག་རྐྱག་ཁྱི་ལ་ཞུས།)

    Nobody wants conflicts. And the sametime nobody wants to be dominated by other hostile forces.

  19. T.D | April 26th, 2010 | 3:52 pm

    By the way, I myself is not cowardice. I can die with dignity even somebody is slitting my throat. hahah

  20. T.D | April 26th, 2010 | 3:53 pm

    I myself is not coward. (correction)

  21. Christophe | April 26th, 2010 | 5:04 pm

    Tibetan Mastiff #9–12,

    I believe that every individual has a different role to play in Tibet’s struggle, based on his/her field of expertise, available time, finances, geographic location and citizenship. Being a Westerner, one of those “mgo-gser mig-ljangs”, the scope of my actions is obviously not the same as any Tibetan — even if I strongly wish it could…

    Would I be Tibetan, I would first ask Dharamshala why they don’t issue an official protest to Beijing over Shogdung’s arrest and don’t call, in strong words, for his immediate release as well as the release of Tashi Dhondup and all other Tibetan artists, intellectuals and activists abducted for their opinions.

    I would ask His Holiness how could he applaud the Chinese authorities and Premier Wen Jiabao for “visiting the affected areas” but not candidly applaud Shogdung and the seven other signatories for their bravery. Since His Holiness did not hesitate to laud Chinese leaders’ presence in Jyekundo, I would also ask him why he didn’t officially request Beijing to allow him a visit to the quake victims, instead of a timid “eagerness” mentioned at the end of a speech, and why he didn’t make such an official appeal widely known to foreign leaders, requesting their endorsement and support.

    More generally — and that may answer your question — I would ask Dharamshala how it could enter into such bizarre logic where its massive efforts to ignore and curb its citizens’ aspirations are inversely proportional to its criticisms of China’s dictatorial rule and arrogant behaviors. To remedy such a disastrous state of affairs, I would urge His Holiness, by means of petition, to take the lead and call for a nation-wide civil disobedience campaign. Since today is April 27, I would also ask him and his government if there was any plan to commemorate the 12th anniversary of Thupten Ngodup’s self-immolation.

    Many questions would need to be asked and many things would need to be fixed before being able to do something concrete. But, as said above, I’m only an Inji. I’ve got no rights to interfere in your business and can only offer to contribute my skills to actions that I consider worth of.

  22. Pema Kadag | April 26th, 2010 | 7:36 pm

    I wanted to write something which accurately expressed my respect for the culture of all tibetans. There simply is no words clever or sincere enough to express my respect and interest. I would like to share with you that I, for one, a westerner who practices dharma, was always the one that wanted to practice as purely as I possibly could. “As I possibly could”. For me, that means not very well. I was always the first to say,”I am not interested in Tibetan culture…I am interested in Dharma.”

    What little I have learned about Tibet and the natural world and the people in a short amount of time…I am in sincere awe. I do not consider myself naive nor do I not have plenty of pitfalls and victories in my own life. How does one describe the richness of the cultures of Tibet? Even this question is not enough. “Richness” is shallow in comparison to the reality of how Tibetans live and die. The richness, the relationship to the land, the spirituality, the customs which are so intricate and not without real practicality, is all proof that this land and people are their own. They belong only to themselves. I am happily humbled by what I have been learning about Tibet. Thanks JN.

  23. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | April 26th, 2010 | 10:03 pm

    Hey A Salar, just wondering what happened to the one billion muslims when the Uigyurs are getting annihilated right in their own land?

  24. A Salar | April 26th, 2010 | 11:24 pm

    T.D

    You are clearly very proud of your culture. That is highly admirable. The question is: How come my cultural pride was disparaged as “boasting”? I’m not a blind fundamentalist. When I was expressing my cultural pride, I was referring to something very specific that made me proud. If that is “boasting,” where would that leave your expression of pride? Judged from your willingness to correct a small lapse in English, I find you capable of self-reflection. Now that some of your fellow Tibetans have commented on your immaturity, there is no need for me to continue.

    Dave

    Judged from your “perfect English,” I must take every word of yours on the face value. So let me be very specific and clear. It is not I who started the argument. In fact, I made a specific effort to compare the role of Tibetan monks in the discussion, in the specific context of my observation that religions (read plural, that is, Islam and Tibetan Buddhism) brought out the best of humanity in a tragic disaster. How can you accuse me of dividing Muslims and Tibetans? Then T.D made a sweeping attack on all Muslims. I made it clear that I was playing the devil’s advocate to highlight the implications of what she just said. How come my heuristic provocation got lost on you?

    I don’t want to attribute your vicious attack on me to some unverifiable ulterior motives. All I can manage to detect from it is a sign of infantile idiocy or I.Q. deficiency on your part. Ignorance leads to arrogance, as you dare put yourself up like a god to speak for all Tibetans and Uyghurs, as if they were monolithic dummies. Did you want to get us Muslims killed as millions have perished in the former Yugoslavia and the USSR, or in Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Or will you join the Uygurs in their next uprising, or maybe set yourself on fire in front of the Chinese embassy in your country?

    BTW, please do some homework and stop flaunting your ignorance about the Salar people next time your attack me.

  25. T.D | April 27th, 2010 | 3:04 am

    salar
    There is no difference in blind fundamentalist and fundametalists.
    You said you people have the support of ONE BILLION MUSLIM. Is this your way of taking pride in your so called CULTURE?
    Or are you threatening us?

  26. kristin blancke | April 27th, 2010 | 4:01 am

    A few pictures of Barthang in 2006 during the horse festival in our italian blog
    http://viaggiinasia.blogspot.com/2010/04/pensando-yushu.html

  27. 译文:江央诺布 结古在我心中 « An Anachronist’s Life | April 27th, 2010 | 4:45 am

    [...] a comment » David: 文章来源Phayul,此文也在江央诺布的博客Shadow Tibet上发表,英文名Kyegu, On My [...]

  28. David Peng | April 27th, 2010 | 5:11 am

    Hi, Mr. Jamyang Norbu,

    I am a Chinese mainland amateur insterested in Tibet issues.

    I came across your article “Kyegu on my mind” and definitely that’s the best
    article on Kyegu/Yushu background so far. I translated it into Chinese and
    posted in my blog.
    - Hide quoted text -
    Therefore, I ask for your permission for doing so. Of course, the link to
    both the phayul and your blog is kept in my blog.

    I have to say, it is quite difficult to translate it into Chinese considered
    I am blind to Tibetan. Several questions here:

    1. Will you please show me a map with Dza-chu and Peltang-chu? I don’t know
    whether my Chinese translation is correct. In a latter paragraph, you said,
    the gathering place is at the confluence of Peltang Chu and Zi Chu. Is it a
    typo of Dza-chu?

    2. What’s the meaning of “Chang Lam” and “Jha Lam”? I translated “Chang Lam”
    to “North Road” and “Jha Lam” to “Tea Road”, are they right?

    2. I understand “bum chik” is Tibetan for ten thousand and “jha-khyel” for
    yak loads which is a weight unit, right?

    3. What’s ‘dhar’?

    Thanks,

    David

  29. Jamyang Norbu | April 27th, 2010 | 9:37 am

    David,
    I don’t have a detailed enough map but from what I have managed to put together, it seems that there are two confluences in that area. The first where the Dza Chu meets the bigger Peltang chu is at Kyegudo itself. The river (Peltang Chu) carries on south where it meets the small tributary the Dzi chu at the Barthang plains. This bigger river carries on further south and becomes the Drichu of the Yangtze.

    You are right Chang Lam means Northern road and Jha lam mean Tea road

    Bum Chik (pronounced boom chik) means one hundred thousand 100,000.

    Dhar is a rough cotton material used for prayer flags etc.

    Jha khyel is a unit of weight. The weight of one leather covered packet about thirty five kilos. Two of these were carried by every yak, and made up one load or gyap chik.

  30. A Salar | April 27th, 2010 | 10:02 am

    T.D

    As I said, you may be teachable. So I should be more patient with you. Let’s establish the facts on which we both can agree. You started the whole thing by attacking Muslims, totally out of the blue, right? Then you revealed your motivation because you thought I was boasting. Fine, then I asked you to reflect upon your cultural pride, granted that my “boasting” deserves your wholesale attack. Now you are evading my question on your cultural pride.

    Now, did I make a threat? You need to understand what the rhetorical posturing of playing the devil’s advocate means. I merely tried to provoke you into thinking through the implications of your negative generalization of Muslims. Recall your framing the issue by referencing to “wherever,” the logical implication is the one billion Muslims.

    You have said you are not a coward. I trust that you will be courageous to face yourself honestly.

  31. Danza | April 27th, 2010 | 12:13 pm

    Yushu is not Drukmo’s birthplace.
    Her birthplace is in in Golok Martoe.

  32. T.D | April 27th, 2010 | 12:18 pm

    Salar
    It seems you are more senior to me in terms of age. But I am wandering what you are going to teach me with patience ultimately.

    I have no reason to evade your question on my ‘cultural pride’.

    Considering all the facts recorded in the human history, I have reason to generalize that. But I did not say each and every muslim is like that.

    In the name of devil’s advocate, you are boasting your one billion-muslim support. You did that in the earlier posting too. That was about six-million non Tibetans in Tibet.

    In that posting, do you remember how did you represent yourself?
    Overall it has been a threat!

    Your attitude and tone of your language indicate strong arrogancy and scornfullness.

    Judging from your attitude and language, I am still in doubt whether there will be a peace in free Tibet or not!

    Bod Gyalo!

  33. Jamyang Norbu | April 27th, 2010 | 3:48 pm

    Danza,
    Could you name the source or sources for your claim.

    The great scholar Samten Karmay in THE ARROW AND THE SPINDLE PG 495 writes, “Gesar’s wife comes from one of the famalies of this tribe called sGa, hence sGa-bza”Brug-mo.”

    The earliest translation of the epic to English by David Neel and Lama Yongden, pg 92, we have a scene where Guru Rimpoche speaks to Gesar (as the boy Joru) and tells him ” A man named Tampagyaltsen lives in the land of Ga: he possess incalculable riches and his daughter is a tulku of the goddess Chomden Dolma (Dolma the Conqueress. Thou must wed her.”
    At the bottom of the page a footnote is provided for “Ga” saying ” N.E, of Tibet, region of Jakyendo.”

  34. A Salar | April 27th, 2010 | 6:26 pm

    T.D (and everyone)

    It’s great that you have told me where you actually came from, whether it is your general view about Muslims or your specific resentment about my previous “threat.”I didn’t know you had such a fragile heart that you so easily felt threatened. Hey, you guys have a rough road ahead and better tough it up. Anyway, it does help clear the smoke on the ground so we can get to straight talk.

    Speaking of threat, the biggest threat on the ground comes from the relentless onslaught of primitive accumulation of capitalism. And speaking of pride, the issue is how a people confronts that onslaught and harnesses the forces of the market for survival. Like it or not, that is the biggest story that has fundamentally transformed the world in the past five centuries, and has now spread to this small corner of the world we share.

    Just as it happened to your people in the Maoist era, most of our mosques were destroyed, our imams rounded up, and our religious schools shut down. But that is where our shared tragedies ended and our differences began. Today, the Muslims in Qinghai beat the Tibetans and even the Han people almost in every sector of the private economy, despite Tibetans and the Han control the government and are disproportionately represented in education and other public sectors. Until the railroad to Lhasa was completed, we Salar controlled 70 percent of the Xining-Lhasa transportation market. You guys think the railroad is the biggest threat, right? What you don’t know is that it almost destroyed our trucking industry. But you know what, we didn’t despair but turned the crisis into opportunity. Today our trucks can be found on all the highways of Western China.

    What do you make of it? Many Han people and, regrettably, Muslims think the Tibetans are too lazy. That is total nonsense! I haven’t seen more hardworking and tougher people than my neighboring Amdo nomads and farmers. Does that have anything to do with religion and culture? I don’t know. When you look at the legendary tradition of Khampa traders and some successful Tibetan entrepreneurs today, the answer is NO. Then what? I believe it has a lot to do with the educated elite and their attitudes. Just look at where the best and brightest of your people are today: in government and the public sectors and, of course, in the monasteries. What are they doing? Some are engaged in serious thinking and talking but do little on the ground, while the rest are just whining and fooling around.

    I will end my brief excursion into this blog with this observation: those of your who post and/or read this are at least bilingual, many trilingual. You are part of the scream of Tibet. Yet many of you suffer from a terrible persecution complex. If you keep whining like this, there is no hope for Tibet.

    Of course I will continue to read JN’s wonderful work in safe distance, not to “threaten” you guys anymore.

    Goodbye!

  35. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | April 27th, 2010 | 10:59 pm

    so what you are essentially saying is when you are getting raped, turn it into an opportunity and enjoy the ride. good to know. Thanks.

  36. Mila Rangzen | April 27th, 2010 | 11:49 pm

    salar,
    tibetans esp elders are very hardworking although i don’t think they are that smartworking. tibetans’ love for money is legendary.
    the two most important concerns for muslims in tibet(or chinese muslims as they are called)are islam and business. ?
    on the other hand the tibetan official guiding policy here is “buddhist economy…contentment rather than greed”. many of these folks believe that getting too much into capitalism(or even rangzen for that matter) will ultimately destroy the only thing that tibetans can take pride in..the only and the greatest gift that tibetans have for the world…tibetan buddhism.
    yes you are quiet right. we are not yet well equipped by system or attitude to face the harsh realities of the 21st century.
    your religion has not only survived but is flourishing despite muslims worldwide militant fight against oppression and for freedom in the last 200 years.
    ofcourse baby killers anywhere are always despised everywhere.

  37. Kalsang Phuntsok | April 27th, 2010 | 11:50 pm

    I think this Salar guy is actually two guys. May be more than two (a team). If not, then he is definitely suffering from split personality disorder.

    I hope he stays in his islamo-communist heaven and spend more time polishing his trucks.

  38. Thompa | April 28th, 2010 | 12:38 am

    Ae Sala, I am calling you ‘Sala’. because you are sala matherchod, not Salar bhai. salar are only 1.5% of population and you have detail info about what happen in partuclar to our muslim brothers in Keygudu? even how quickly tarnsport the dead to their home by their imam? I hope you didnt got this info from your CCP embasy office. ha ha..sounds fishy. let me clear this first. I dont agree with TD’s comment on moslim either. that was very unappropraite. And then you respond with all these fanatic activities sort of scare tacktic. doesn’t sounds very much of a salar speaking for all salar under chinese control. Remember your comment to Dave on your grandpa Wan jao bao’s speech? clearly shows your true face. I am happy for salar that they trun crisis into opportunity and Today their trucks can be found on all the highways in Western China.good for them. But our protest against railroad is not because of the economic reason. it is because, of all these chinese vagabond tramps are transported into Tibet in vest volume faster then before. And dont try to maneuver this endangered social issue into economic issue by saying, Oh, salar people took this into opportunity. you Sala Han bhanchod.

  39. Thompa | April 28th, 2010 | 12:56 am

    Agian folks here. lets not say any things about religion or ethnic. this is what he want us to do. This sala Mathachod is not a salar. He is definitely making good amount of yuan for doing this. he he sneeky bastard

  40. Arihant | April 28th, 2010 | 9:02 am

    I agree with some of the points Salar made here. One of them is Salar people’s adaptive nature in dire circumstances.
    In the harsh reality of the world, it’s not only a convenient phrase but “survival of the fittest” is the mantra and the dharma of any ecosystem.
    We Tibetans in exile have being complaining Chinese government since 1950s while failing to look introspectively what could have been done in otherwise dire situations.
    Many Tibetan folks in exile think (probably unconsciously)that they are perfect and what they do is also perfect so can’t take any complains and comments on their activities all the while complaining everything that China does. If these types of behaviors are bringing happier, freer and more prosperity to Tibetans in Tibet, the end justifies the mean. But it doesn’t seem that way.
    Many of Chinese policies in Tibet are ill-conceived. Such policies are Han migration (Han migration policy in minority regions in general)in Tibet, the railway links between Lhasa and Golmud. We see Han migration in Tibet as a part of Han invasion in Tibet. We see Qingzang Railway as a tool of the destruction of Tibetan culture. We can complain all we want but at the end of the day, it leaves us physically and psychologically drained and exhausted because we don’t see any results out of our activities.
    We can keep the spirit of our protest movements. At the same time we will have a critical look at ourselves and see what we can do to these dire situations in Tibet so that we can make the best out of the worst by having some result-oriented strategies.
    Tibetans in Tibet are doing it. Instead of complaining Chinese government about the rescue efforts in devastated areas of the Yushu earthquake, Tibetan artists, businessmen, medical personnel, teachers and everyday people from Amdo, Kham and other parts of Tibet are sharing their possessions (such as tsampa, butter, cheese, meats, money, clothes) and skills to the victims of the earthquake.
    Be responsible individual not a professional protester.

  41. T.D | April 28th, 2010 | 9:57 am

    Hi Salar,
    I read your comment three times. And I agree that Tibetan people are lagging behind almost in all areas of enterprises and professions.

    And yes, we have rough roads ahead!

    But I don’t expect any support from anyone other than exploitation. And you made very clear in your earlier posting about your political stance. Therefore we have nothing to share in common.
    You believe in the survival of the fittest. I will not let it happen anyway.

  42. Pema Kadag | April 28th, 2010 | 10:35 am

    If Tibetans, unfortunately I am speaking in a broad generalization, were more “intune” with what we are all perceiving as the 21st century and reacted as we would expect them to react in a manner which exemplifies the best of the 21st century then unequivocally we are talking about the westernization of Tibetans as a whole. Is this not what the PRC is doing already for them? Why should we always assume that the westernization of any group is the best thing? As if we do not get on the train we will miss out or perish. The notion that the current need for the westernization of Tibetans I think is not necessarily a good thing.

  43. Pema Kadag | April 28th, 2010 | 10:38 am

    Tibetans , if given the chance, could create a new system to live by. A more democratic socialist compassionate secular form of government.

  44. T.D | April 28th, 2010 | 1:15 pm

    I hate westernisation!

  45. Pema Kadag | April 28th, 2010 | 2:07 pm

    T.D I am glad to hear it. Don’t you find that conversation always tends to try to bring everyone or third world cultures “up to snuff” with westernization? That if you do not “get on board” you will be “left behind”? As I said, if given the chance to create something new from all of Tibet’s positive human resources, Tibet as a country could create a new democracy without the negative Trappings of the west. Or am I draming to much?

  46. Pema Kadag | April 28th, 2010 | 2:08 pm

    dreaming

  47. tsering | April 28th, 2010 | 3:01 pm

    take the best out of both or bitch later.

  48. Kalsang Phuntsok | April 28th, 2010 | 3:14 pm

    Pema and T.D.,

    I don’t know what one actually means by
    “Westernization”. This is one of those terms people use for different meanings.

    Western culture has a lot of good things to offer the world, and I don’t think we should categorically reject it. Western philosophy and science has been mainly the source of modern enlightenment.

    What is important is to condemn the “my way or the highway” attitude (except in extreme cases). No one people should impose its will on another.

    The Chinese have not only robbed the Tibetans of their lands but also our natural right as humans to evolve our own thoughts, develop our own culture, refine our language and adopt the best the world has to offer and in return offer the best of ours.

    For the past hundreds of years they have tried to eliminate our civilization and identity and have failed. They are still at it and guess what, they will fail again. We won’t let them succeed.

    WE MUST NOT. BHOD GYALLO!

  49. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | April 28th, 2010 | 3:27 pm

    T.D Can you please leave Salar alone? Let him say whatever he wants to say.
    Don’t you realize every time this Salar say something against Tibet and intentionally brought wrong reasons and argue with people.

    I am so tired. Salar should say “ thanks so much Tibetan monks and nuns save many Muslim families at Earth Quack at this time and we all should be on same page but he is such negatively sensitive and argumentative everything we saying anything.

    Please leave him alone.I know he is going to attack me but I don’t care. I am so tired leave him alone.

    Thanks brothers and sisters.

    .

  50. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | April 28th, 2010 | 3:46 pm

    Hi everyone:

    Did you guys see the video named” Mammy is here” at http://www.Khabdha.org.
    You all should see it. A story of a little girl from Earth quack in the hospital both parent were killed so far they haven’t heard from any relatives or family.

    Ahma Nyima kyi la a Tibetan woman lives in Xining city voluntarily spent full time take care of this girl and now she call her Ahma.

    I was so saddened and my tears rolled down my face.

  51. Pema Kadag | April 28th, 2010 | 4:02 pm

    Kalsang
    Good points. Westernization really is science and economics at the behest of capitalism. The direction of science is determined by the will of capitalism. Technology and the “enslavement” to it is determined by capitalism. Capitalism is not faceless. These are human beings who are deciding everyday how you and I communicate, what we eat, therefore, down to how we think. We have very little say. We can vote. But what we vote on is determined by the will of a corporation. Now…would I take this over the PRC? Of course.I guess that all though the West is controling the economic pulse of the world there is no escaping it. But when Tibet is given the chance to exercise their own will upon their own land, own resources, own people,I pray that all tibetans are equal to one vote each, that the caste system that was in place is replaced with equality,that it be a secular governing body, and that Tibetans themselves are given the vote and input as to whether or not these ideas of a democratic government are to their liking.

  52. T.D | April 29th, 2010 | 9:35 am

    I hate westernisation because it is corrupting everything we have from religion to our way of life. That’s all.

    Science and technology is not western culture. But there are deeply influenced by westerner’s value systems and culture. We need technology and need to learn science. However we should be vigilant of those VIRUS sneaking into our way of life.

    Choni,
    I am not tired!

  53. tsering | April 29th, 2010 | 12:19 pm

    T.D
    Curse science, technology and western values and you are in it for the most part enjoying it! From lipsticks to dildos! Hypocrites never get tired!

  54. tenzin | April 29th, 2010 | 6:48 pm

    haha tsering. good one. :O

  55. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | April 29th, 2010 | 11:11 pm

    There is nothing I can do to stop these kids fight.

    Alright! then go ahead and I am just 1-800-old man.com

    Om Ah hum…..

  56. tsering | April 30th, 2010 | 2:01 am

    Tenzin,
    But T.D is happily willing to adopt chinese life! Autonomy with chinese characters!

  57. Sonam Wangyal | April 30th, 2010 | 12:07 pm

    Hello Respected Sir,

    I am a tibetan living in toronto, canada, and I am big fan of your views and vast knowledge about Tibet and tibetan issues.

    I regularly listen to radio free asia tibetan on my ipod podcast on my way to work, and you are panel guest on the show.

    I would really appreciate if you can do podcast of your daily blog so that one can subscribe your podcast daily like rfa and other tibetan online radios.

    Thank You

    sonamsam23

  58. T.D | April 30th, 2010 | 12:42 pm

    Tsering
    With much love, I asked you to peruse my previous comment numbered 52th.

    Leaving comment arbitrarily with such language is total disregard and disgrace to Jamyang la and his blog respectively.

    So I urge everyone to treat J.N lak’s blog with respect.

  59. Kalsang Phuntsok | April 30th, 2010 | 2:09 pm

    Sonam Wangyal,

    Good Idea!

    We need to put out there a lot of content for the world to see and listen to. So that people really start talking about our issue.

    Thanks to western technology the means are already available. We just need people who can do it. I am not very good at speech otherwise i thought of this idea of starting a youtube channel to post videos like Pat Condell’s but obviously on Tibet issue.

  60. Christophe | May 1st, 2010 | 10:57 am

    I had read a few days ago on Woeser’s twitter account something about the late 10th Panchen Lama’s daughter visiting the earthquake zone; tibetcul.com published today some photos about this surprising visit: http://bit.ly/aqwJxR

  61. Tibetan Mastiff | May 3rd, 2010 | 8:13 am

    अब पंजीकरण करे
    तिब्बत मुक्त हो जाएगा
    एक फ्री तिब्बत के लिए छात्रों द्वारा एक वैश्विक ब्लॉग

    तिब्बती स्वतंत्रता राइटर्स एंड चीन Crackdown

    Tagyal या “Shogdung, तिब्बती लेखक अप्रैल 24 गिरफ्तार

    शुक्रवार 23 अप्रैल 2010 पर, अच्छी तरह तिब्बती लेखक और बौद्धिक Tagyal (पेन नाम Shogdung ཞོགས་དུང་) जाना जाता था, शीनिंग में गिरफ्तार कर लिया.

    स्पष्ट है Shogdung गिरफ्तारी चुप्पी को चीनी सरकार द्वारा एक बड़ा प्रवृत्ति का हिस्सा है प्रमुख तिब्बती लेखकों, कलाकारों और शिक्षकों. जैसा कि किसी भी समाज में लेखकों, कलाकारों और तिब्बत में आम व्यक्ति की आवाज बन गए हैं. चीन Shogdung की हाल ही में गिरफ्तार सभी नागरिकों को चीन के दावे के बावजूद कि यह अनुदान “अभिव्यक्ति की स्वतंत्रता ‘को दर्शाता है, आज तिब्बत में आज़ादी से बोल, कागज पर भी एक गंभीर अपराध है.

    एक दोस्त के Shogdung पर पोस्ट में एक ब्लॉग लिखा http://www.sangdhor.com (अब दुर्गम) है कि उसकी गिरफ्तारी के पीछे कारण क्या था, एक पुस्तक प्रकाशन से पृथ्वी स्काई इंतियाज़ी, जिसमें उन्होंने विरोध तिब्बती crackdown पर क्रूर आलोचना की है के लिए यह govenrment चीनी मार्च 2008 में.

    एक तिब्बती ब्लॉगर भी लिखा है कि Shogdung है Kyegundo भूकंप, जहां वह और दूसरों को उनके 7 अप्रभावी और संभवतः “भ्रष्ट” बचाव और राहत कार्यों के लिए अधिकारियों की आलोचना के शिकार लोगों को एक खुला पत्र लिख दिया गया है मई उनकी भागीदारी के लिए गिरफ्तार कर लिया.

    Shogdung सूचना के आधार पर करने के लिए और अधिक जानकारी के लिए पढ़ें: पूरी तरह से अनुवाद खुला पत्र यात्रा के उच्च Peaks पवित्र धरती.

    के रूप में चीन को तिब्बतियों उनकी अभिव्यक्ति के मौलिक अधिकार, तिब्बती लेखकों और कलाकारों से इनकार किया है कि चीनी सरकार के आलोचकों को बहुत ही लोकप्रिय तिब्बती छात्रों के बीच, विशेष रूप से बन रही है. चीन के सबसे अच्छे प्रयासों के बावजूद, तिब्बती लेखकों जारी रखने के लिए बाहर बोल द्वारा चीनी सरकार अवहेलना करना.

    तिब्बती हिरासत सूची के ज्ञात में लेखक:
    डोलमा Kyab. डोलमा Kyab. “हिमालय की हलचल पर (लेखक” मूल शीर्षक: डी साओ Ximalayashan डोंग के तहत चीनी में लिखा). एक किताब है कि मार्च 2005 में गिरफ्तारी के समय पर अप्रकाशित था के लिए एक दस साल की सजा भुगत रहे. कार्रवाई लो: http://bit.ly/9vtYjb

    Tshe अंगूठी डॉन कोड़ना. इस लेखक अक्टूबर 2009 को, अपने निजी “उपन्यास ‘dmar’ उर” उर Rlung प्रकाशन के बाद कुछ ही महीनों में अपने RMA lho अभिलेखागार में सरकारी नौकरी खो दिया है. जानकारी के लिए और अधिक: http://bit.ly/9kjtf8

    ताशी Rabten (पेन नाम: Therang). लंज़ौ विश्वविद्यालय में एक छात्र नॉर्थवेस्ट के ‘राष्ट्रीय अल्पसंख्यक किताब. प्रकाशित एक बुलाया “yig Khrang” (रक्त का पत्र). अप्रैल 2010 में गिरफ्तार किया. कार्रवाई: http://bit.ly/97XeIT

    Sherab Gyatso. Nga tsho के लेखक दुखी (प्रकाशित भागा 2007). 2008 में कैद. उनकी रिहाई की खबर उच्च Peaks पवित्र धरती द्वारा जनवरी 2009 में दिया गया

  62. Christophe | May 3rd, 2010 | 3:01 pm

    Impressive photos of devastated Jyekundo on The Big Picture: “Yushu Earthquake, 12 days later” http://bit.ly/ddvfK2

  63. Pema | May 4th, 2010 | 4:25 pm

    What is your comment on hhdl comment “quake as result past bad karma”.

    For me this really is strange and see no rational in it.

    The deaths were due to the poor housing and being in an seismic zone.

  64. Mila Rangzen | May 4th, 2010 | 10:34 pm

    from buddhist perspective this is no surprising. you are not talking about one life but many countless lives and forms from beginless beginning. karma includes all good stuff bad stuff big small. physical, mental and speech. all. negative consequences that could be avoided and those beyond control. all a result of one’s individual or collective karma(action), not a punishment from a creator/god. it goes beyond the immediate causes.

    do i know if there is such a thing as karma, God, creator, buddhahood, rebirth, heaven, hell etc?

    no. i don’t know.

    do i believe in the existence of any or all the above?

    no i don’t believe.

    does that make me atheist?

    so be it. this is my last life.

    if that which one has not experienced does not necessarily mean it does not exist
    then on the same note one cannot claim it exist without having the experience of it.

    blind faith?

  65. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 6th, 2010 | 8:37 pm

    发布者:唯色
    请不要把地震灾害当成表演的舞台

    4月14日7点40分左右,我们在寺院感受到地震的震动,没过多久,传来我们寺院一位僧人的两名家人在结古镇因地震去世的消息,随后,有关人员伤亡的噩耗接踵而至。我们二百余名僧侣随即前往结古救援,但因大货车速度慢,加上道路拥挤,傍晚八点我们才抵达结古镇。

    途中,到达距离结古只有十公里的巴塘时,尚还看不出地震造成的巨大破坏,到距离州上(结古,为玉树州所在地)两、三公里时,才令人惊恐地发现地震所造成的巨大破坏,左右山坡松动,电线杆东倒西歪,眼前所有的房子都已经倒塌。

    到州上后,前往指挥部询问怎样救援时,答复竟然是:“今天已经下班,明天再来。”无可奈何中,我们只好自己去寻找需要救援的地方。到了广播电视大学,看到一间半塌的教室,听说下面压着二十多个学生,有少量军人正在挖。绕到房子后面,看到一个学生的下半身露在外面,在场的一个人说,太阳落山前,呼喊小孩时有人应。在场的僧人们立刻行动,用袈裟绑住窗户铁栏后拉拽,这时一个军官过来厉声喝道:“你们在干什么?不要拉。”告诉他这里有一名学生时,他瞄了一眼说:“哼!这个已经死了,头被压了;从这里进去很危险。”一个年轻僧人说: “没事,我进去,即使死了也不后悔。”但不管怎么说,他就是不让僧人进入废墟,我们只好到前边和军人一起挖。

    无论是基于慈悲或是民族同胞情,僧人干活的时候都与他人不同,特别地卖力。他们迅速地清理废墟时,那些军人带着惊讶的表情休息旁观。不一会儿,来了几个摄影的,这时不可思议的现象再次发生了,一个不知道叫什么名字的人,据说是州长,他一上来就非常粗暴地抓住僧侣的肩膀,一边往后推一边叫嚷:“下去!下去!”一些年轻的僧侣气愤地要回应,那些年纪大的僧侣劝导说:“不要这样,救人要紧,”就把那些年轻僧侣拉开了。

    我们退出后,那些原先休息的军人立刻拿着钢钎和绳子等工具做出挖掘的样子,由摄影师在那里拍摄。当时我不禁产生了到底是救人第一,还是在摄影机面前表演第一等疑惑和想法。

    我们离开那里后,到城市各角落不停地高喊“需要帮忙吗?”由于当时谣传水库会溃堤,人们都跑到山上,很少有人响应。一名在地震中失去父亲的囊谦人告诉我:“仅就地震灾害而言是无可奈何的,但很多人之所以没能救出来,都是被这个溃堤的谣言给害的。”

    地震次日早晨七点,我们前往被分配的镇西北部进行救援工作,有一个囊谦籍的人,他的妻子被压死,他已经挖到了尸体,他说他四岁的儿子还被压在这个倒塌的两层楼下面,他对自己儿子可能还没有死抱着很大的期望,我们就和军人一起挖掘,这时又有一个很小的余震发生,那些军人立即四散而逃,再也不肯过来。当时我想:汶川地震中传说的不顾生命危险抢救人民生命财产的那些英雄到哪里去了?似乎没来这里救灾啊。中午,军人们准备离开去吃午饭时,那个年轻的父亲流着泪哀求那些士兵:“吃完饭请快点来帮忙。”看着这一幕,心里真有一种说不出的难过。

    这些军队,是肚子稍微一饿就放弃救援的救难军队。由此想到,汶川地震时的电视新闻报导把我给骗了,那些英雄事迹,毫无疑问仅仅是在摄影机面前非常艺术地表演出来的戏剧而已。实际上,救人根本不是一件轻而易举的事情,以眼前的房子为例,两层楼的房子已经倒塌,但还没有完全垮掉,仍被撑着,随时还会再倒塌。因此前去救援的人,必须要有爱人胜于爱己的菩萨心肠,或者是强烈的民族情感或责任感,然而具有这种真诚而不是表演的救援人员实在很少。

    下午,来了一些像是工人的汉族救援人员。他们在挖了一个小时左右以后表示:下面应该没有人,即使有人我们也无能为力。那个年轻的爸爸眼看他们要走,一再恳求:“请不要这样,下面有活人的希望非常大。”但那些人不予理会就走人了。在地震灾害的现实中,并不存在电视里所报导的那种各民族同心协力的感动,反而是令人遗憾或伤心落泪,乃至于愤怒不能自持。

    傍晚,我们绕着城市西北边缘救援时,那边仍没有任何一名国家救援人员抵达。而在城市中心,可以看到挂着某某救援组织牌子的各种各样帐篷和横幅,记者和摄影师都在拍摄那些,而救援人员也在镜头面前摆出各种救援的姿势。更令人气愤的是,他们还将僧侣和普通民众努力的结果揽为自己的功劳,宣称救了多少多少人等。与此同时,整个城市布满了手拿枪支或棍棒的特警。我当时就想,如果派来的是救难人员而不是这些特警的话该多好。又想到,这些特警拿着枪准备对付谁啊?当然是家破人亡的结古人民啊,想到这里,禁不住流下了眼泪。

    后来才知道是温家宝要来灾区。温家宝说:“你们的灾害也是我们的灾害,你们的困难也是我们的困难。”他讲的话虽然令人感动,但人民实际感受到的却是在家破人亡之际,没有人帮助救援或守卫他们的生命财产,所有的军警都被派去封锁温家宝将要经过的街口道路。谁都可以看出这是一种表演。

    地震第五天,胡锦涛主席前来视察,他对救援部队说:“你们辛苦了,我要向你们表示衷心的感谢!”

    然而在另一边,则是一万五千余名僧侣,官员们对他们不仅没有任何感谢的话,反而威胁说:你们已经做了很多过分的事情,该收敛了,等等。

    我在这里可以非常确定地说:在救援等方面,我们的所作所为相对于军队而言可能是过分了,但我们绝没有做任何违法的事情。我们并不期待当局的关怀和感谢,但是将我们救人的行为视若犯罪而进行恐吓,实在是不可思议,令人感到非常遗憾和伤心。

    而且,胡锦涛来的那天,从上午11点到晚上9点为止封锁交通,其后果无从说起。就我们而言,那天我们一百余名僧侣坐在大卡车里正准备前往禅古寺救援,结果不仅被禁止,驾驶员还差点被处罚。

    类似这种表面的虚伪行为,即不能拯救那些被混凝土和石块砸压而哭泣呼救的弱者,也无益于救济那些几天没吃到食物的饥饿灾民,相反还严重地阻碍了救援行动。最终,那些灾民也许可以得到栖身之屋,但那也不过是表演娴熟的戏剧一部分而已,这种表演也许还会感动世界各地的观众。

    最后,我期望未来遇到这样的灾害时,请不要把灾难变成政治表演的机会;请真诚地把拯救生命视为第一;希望无私地去帮助那些遭受灾害的人民,请不要给他们已经不幸的同时再增加痛苦。

    政治人物将埋着千百人的废墟作为舞台进行表演,这既是中国的不幸,也是违背人类道德的魔鬼行为。

  66. Mila Rangzen | May 6th, 2010 | 10:05 pm

    choni,
    i know you good at three different languages! tibetan, chinese and english! bravo!
    now can you translate the crap up here? thanx.

  67. Arihant | May 6th, 2010 | 10:15 pm

    Mila la,
    Woeser says don’t turn the earthquake tragedy into a political drama. I know Arihant had already said it on phayul but all he got was some suspicious looks from “real Tibetans” on phayul.

  68. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | May 6th, 2010 | 10:32 pm

    good for Woeser. Those chinese bastards were turning this into a political windfall, cancelling foreign trips, kissing babies, showing chinese troops helping out Tibetans like they really give a shit. Yeah, Hu was the architect of 1987 clampdown in Tibet and he expects us to believe he cares.
    Arihant, when did you start talking in third person?

  69. Thompa | May 6th, 2010 | 10:40 pm

    Ok, Pema la and mila. ‘Karma’or le dre, is such a complex subject that required deeper understanding and study. Simple explanation of affiliation on cause effect doesn’t do the job here.

    Mila your last two sentences may seems to be balancing your point of argument but it really does not. Both statement hits the same target. It sounds more like saying if 2 and 2 does not equal 4 then 4 is not 2 and 2. if you don’t see my point then try give me examples for each of your statement .
    1. “If that which one has not experienced does not necessarily mean it does not exist”. for exp?

    2. “then on the same note one cannot claim it exist without having the experience of it.”. for exp?
    best of luck :)
    And also think of what is your bases or logic for not believing in any or all of the above you mention?

  70. Kalsang Phuntsok | May 6th, 2010 | 11:40 pm

    Pema # 63,

    You are right. No complicated mumbojumbo reasoning is required to explain what happened in Jyekundo. It is bad enough that they are dead and crippled, now their past lives and deeds are condemned.

  71. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 7th, 2010 | 6:57 pm

    The earthquake Yushu

    Co-operation between monks and the government has been curtailed

    FOR Tibet’s rebellious monastic community, the earthquake that killed more than 2,000 people in a remote county on the Tibetan plateau on April 14th became a rare opportunity to forge some trust with the government of China. In an unspoken truce, the authorities allowed monks from far and wide to join the relief efforts. Chinese troops watched impassively as columns of red-robed Buddhists bearing the flags of their monasteries deployed near the epicenters. But mutual suspicions have been quick to resurface.

    The devastation struck in Tibet (Yushu), a county in Qinghai province, which Tibetans view as part of their historic territory. The government has seen the recovery efforts here as a chance to show its care for an ethnic minority suffused with misgivings about Chinese rule. The prime minister, Wen Jiabao, delayed an overseas trip and the president, Hu Jintao, cut short a trip of his own to fly to the disaster area and be photographed with grieving Tibetans. Just as it did after a far more destructive earthquake in Sichuan province in 2008, the government declared a national day of mourning, which was observed on April 21st.

    But official goodwill has its limits. Tibetan areas, including Qinghai, had been under a security clampdown since March 2008, when anti-Chinese protests and riots flared across the plateau. The government is still in no mood to give leeway to Tibetan dissenters who, it fears, might seize on any inadequacies in the relief mission to whip up public anger. One of China’s senior leaders, Jia Qinglin, said on April 19th that “hostile elements abroad”—often code for the Dalai Lama and his supporters—were trying to “sabotage” the relief work.

    Four days later, police in Qinghai’s capital, Xining, detained a prominent Tibetan intellectual, Tagyal (he has a single name, as do many Tibetans). He had joined seven others in signing an open letter to residents of the disaster area. It referred to the earthquake as another blow to Tibetans; on top of “armed force and cruelty”. And it urged people to give donations only to “trustworthy” agencies—implying that government bodies are too prone to corruption.

    Tagyal’s letter seems to have been the last straw. The authorities were already enraged by a book he wrote under his pen name, which he had been circulating informally in the past few weeks. “The Line Between Sky and Earth” praises the activism of monks during the Tibetan unrest of 2008 and calls for passive resistance as a way of pressing for more freedoms. Its message was particularly striking because Tagyal had been regarded by many Tibetans as someone who shared official China’s disdain for Tibetan religion. Police have informed Tagyal’s family that he is suspected of “inciting separatism”. Concerns about his book might have helped to inspire a campaign the government launched to prevent “illegal publications” from disturbing the relief effort.

    The authorities have reason to worry about the loyalties of this earthquake’s survivors. Some have been scrabbling in ruins to recover photographs of the Dalai Lama. The government has ignored the exiled Tibetan leader’s suggestion that he be allowed to visit Yushu. Woeser, a Tibetan writer living in Beijing, says survivors become excited whenever they spot an aeroplane overhead, hoping the Dalai Lama might be on board.

    Monks, unfettered by the altitude sickness suffered by many of the emergency workers sent from other parts of China, made valiant contributions to the rescue. But the government appears to have lost patience with them. Within a week of the earthquake, officials were making it clear that those from outside the county should return to their monasteries. Woeser says that many monks have decided to play safe and withdraw.

  72. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 7th, 2010 | 7:52 pm

    10 years old boy Lopsang Nyidak’s dream.

    Lobsand Nyidak is a very smart boy and he told reporter that he can read and write both Tibetan and Chinese. He was one of the best student in his class. He loves to point picture of deferent animals and specially yaks and keep them in his torn dusty books whenever family member birthday arrives he uses one of the paints wish them happy birth days or whatever celebration that will be.

    April 14 Earth Quack in Tibet unfortunately Lobsang Nyidak’s entire family was buried under his family house and he was the only one left behind.

    While this little boy was site on huge heap of garbage with nobody’s comfort and help. He haven’t had food and dink for three days. One News reporter approached him asked, if anyone in his family killed by Earth quack.
    Boy replied uncontrollably shake voice: “Some kids have brother and sister, some kids have parents but I have none”.

    Then reporter asked him again: what is his dream now? What is that he wish to have? The simply smile and said “I want to see HH Dalai Lama and go school”.

  73. Arihant | May 7th, 2010 | 9:08 pm

    TD Gashi la,
    Woeser la is saying not to politicize the earthquake tragedy all the while she herself is trying to earn some mileage from this event. So is you the rinpoche, a “quite religious one”.LoL.
    Arihant was condemning political dramas playing out from both side of spectrum. What Tibetans in Yushu need right now is immediate assistance in foods, water, tents, medical and psychological helps.
    To answer you question, I am sure that it was the first time I used the third person for myself to make the statement more convincing.

    Thank you Choni la for putting a human face to this tragedy.
    I hope Thompa la can expand “the Simple explanation” of affiliation on cause effect doesn’t do the job here. Or stop pretending there is more to know when there isn’t.

  74. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 7th, 2010 | 9:14 pm

    My feelings after read Woesar la Article:

    My beloved country Tibet has truly suffered a unthinkable devastation.
    There is no other way to describe pain people are experiencing.
    An earthquake of vast portions has hit Yushu with no reservation.
    The many aftershocks of the quake have not given in a bit.
    Homes flatted out and thousands are victimized.
    China still play TV camera game.

    To watch the sufferings going through – is such painful.
    Only a human soul– you can only bear so much.
    Watch the TV in disbelief at what you see – it puts me hopeless.
    I swear God Chinese official or rescuers felt nothing –
    But played game whenever there was TV camera.
    Heartless Chinese rescuer: You are way out of God’s touch!

    I have heard of such things happening – I am witnessing it with my own eyes.
    I know I am not there – but, I can almost feel their anguish and pain.
    God – Please help this my home Tibet and its people – I sigh.
    I am proud watch and hear of thousands of monks flood into Yushu
    And selflessly offered help and prayed for the victims no longer with us.
    China use earth quack for Politic stage-Shame on China.

    To the Victims Yushu I offer my prayers, love and support.
    You are suffering and there seems, at this time, to be no unpredictable end;
    But, with the abundance of outpour from all over the world of undying support,
    Our home Yushu will, someday soon, be rebuilt and amend.
    Alive Buddha compassion is always on heads of us.
    We all work together one drop at time to rebuild lake to ocean.

  75. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | May 7th, 2010 | 11:41 pm

    So mr Arihant, you think Woesar was trying to get mileage out of the tragedy. How about the people from Kyegudo who requested H.H to be there to comfort them? Do you think they are trying to get mileage out of this tragedy too? What about H.H’s wishes to go and see the devastation himself and offer his condolences and spiritual guidance? Mileage too? You can call me cynical if you like but don’t call people in Tibet like Woesar who is risking everything by voicing her opinions against chinese policies in Tibet ‘trying to earn mileage’. Maybe it is your cynical nature that you see bandits behind every stone. Lets at least respect to those who actually are true living heroes in our midst.

  76. tsering | May 8th, 2010 | 1:27 am

    Arihant,
    Is this name as same as arihat (pali/sanskrit)…the 8th stahe where the practioner conquers all his internal enemies…the state of no return…buddhahood is a matter of time!
    Can you put your actual name like others here so we can google you or facebook you? Your philosophical personality is very interesting. Thanks lot.

  77. Thompa | May 8th, 2010 | 2:03 am

    Arihant, I feel its not relevant to talk too much about LeDre in this blog but believe me people spent many years of study to understand this subject. Regardless of this I would like to point out few things that you mention in your previous comment # 40.

    You said we Tibetan are ‘complaining’ the Chinese gov. complaining?? What you think of us? A little school girl? We are demanding our right, not complaining. Many have died and still in prison. This is a fight in any form, not complain. And we will keep this fight alive until we restore our ranzen. There will be no end of the day until then and no power in this face of earth can physically or psychologically drained and exhaust us. This fight is and will be alive in any form of shape and size and goes on until there comes one and one only needed –he or she who will flip this comme regime upside down and free us all. This is not a prediction nor hope. That is part of human evolution. China may seems so big and powerful but she needs only one kick. History has proven us and all we have to do is keep the fight alive and there will be result.
    Bho Gyal lo

  78. T.D | May 8th, 2010 | 6:10 am

    I agree with Thompa’s 77th comment.

    Some of you express strong displeasure over the H.H Dalai Lama’s statement which says that the cause of those tragedies were the result of their negative actions of past lives.

    Many lable this statement as a condemnation of those people’s past lives. And many critize the statement just because they don’t believe in such things like previous lives and so on.

    However, this statement is focused mainly on those victims who strongly believe in Karma and Life after death. They have strong faith in Tibetan Buddhism. They won’t feel condemned because that is what they believe usually. They are just reminded by the STATEMENT.

    Those so called Tibetans who misundertood this statement is the indication of how much they are westernised so far. Because such people have some difficulties in understanding their own people’s mentality.

    But I am not questioning their love for our fatherland.

  79. tsering | May 8th, 2010 | 2:02 pm

    Faith in something that cannot be experimented or put to test is a sign of a backward mind.Beleif without evidence is sheer stupidity.

  80. NewGenerationTB | May 8th, 2010 | 3:10 pm

    Are there Tibetans who claim to be westernized or modernized? No….they just pick up the cultural junk that west discarded for a long time. Those Tibetans who claimed to be westernized or rather modernized are those who confused of realities. Whose kids wearing pants under their butt, their children hardly pass high school. Their news and modern education is cheap yet useless flash news about the so called “celebrities”.
    ng

  81. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 8th, 2010 | 8:57 pm

    <<>>

    Our Three Precious Jewels-Buddha, Dharma and Sangga. Everything is in temples, therefore, Tibetans pay respect from different directions and prostrating whenever sees any signs of three Jewels. We, Tibetans built our homes also near by monasteries. This way we feel save and secure. Under the protection of monasteries Tibetans have lived for thousand of years.

    Monastery is school and we learn things for free, Monasteries is hospital provide us free health care. Nowadays, even monasteries provide us to learn English, Chinese and even schedule villagers to participate Dharma teachings, some of monasteries provide adult centers to special old citizen care.

    In our lives , monastic community is indispensable. For example: when people passed away, or some body got sick monastery and monk are places and people to ask for prayer and help. When some body got new baby or get married monastery is the place to get new name for baby and get auspicious dates for matrimony.

    One of the most effective service monastery and monks provide is to help so many villages and people when they got argument each other or even fight for any reason monasteries is the place to go Seattle down the cases, specially after Chinese divided all the grassland in nomadic area. Animals didn’t get enough grass to eat. Some family has to protect their own grass yard make sure they have enough grass for their own animal. This new problem brought in nomadic area by Chinese. Some area in the past few lives were lost because of fight on grass to feed animal.

    The most happiest activities we do is circumambulations around temples and prayer and to build Mandala offering. Visualization of whole entire world as treasures mountain, rivers, even sun and moon offering to precious three Jewels Buddha, Dharma and Sangga accumulate meritorious deeds.

    Unfortunately, devil communist came to Tibet, accused monasteries were the Landlords of exploitation took away monasteries property rights, destroyed all the relic statue of Buddha’s, killed thousands of monks and burnt down all the religious monumental and texts.

    My three precious Jewel. Oh glorious monasteries, only thing left behind are destroyed walls and broken ramparts.

    Buddha, Dharma and Sangga, we all brutalized and deeply hurt. We are in fear and scaring our lives each and every single day.

    China, these were not only damages and sufferings brought to us, The most hurtful is that every time they baselessly accusing our great compassionate leader H.H the Dalai Lama and China‘s constant criticize and propagating Tibetan Exile government is only a group of Post-liberation land Lords.

    We all know Tibetan population in exile is from cross the country, majority are from peasants, nomads and our ancestors grazing sheep, yaks, horse escaped under Chinese rains of bullets.

    Because our supreme leader H.H’s left is simply sun set above us for ever, life in dark, died or alive simply not different. Everything can change on the world but our faith will never change.

    Earth Quack in Yushu in Tibet is a great example. Monks and Nuns first came, selflessly helped thousands regardless racial ethnicity this absolutely proved that Buddha, Dharma and Sangga are our best protection and helper.

    Nevertheless after all the hard works monks and nuns have done day and night first few days, for Chinese propaganda TV news camera game, China brought plenty lazy military garages called rescuer team, forcedly ordered Monks withdrawal from the scene, shamelessly criticized monks’ way of rescuer people. After few hours work almost all Chinese rescuers stay group by group just talk and eat even sleep in tents. Nobody really cared about rescuer people underneath debris.

    This is such a absurd Drama or disgraceful China’s political game on humanitarian cause.

  82. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | May 9th, 2010 | 12:40 am

    newgeneration, those baggy pants sagging at the knees group won’t be posting on this website. I am pretty confident about that. :)

  83. Mila Rangzen | May 9th, 2010 | 1:07 am

    ngtb,
    michael jacksons and jeans come and go. no doubt there are some causalities here and there but you need not be depressed by such superficial concerns. what’s more important is to help ourselves at large to suck the best out of west or east. juice for the brain and soup for the balls which we lack badly.

  84. Mila Rangzen | May 9th, 2010 | 1:33 am

    thompa,
    i suppose you are buddhist and to make it short i reject karma and rebirth on the lack of falsifiability of these two theories which at best are a good guess. such a theory that is thrice removed from reality can be cognitive biased. can it be tested and verified? probability is closer to reality as much as possibility is farther from it and between the two i would go for the former. until you come up with good evidence to suggest otherwise i will continue to stick to my flesh and blood here and now. again that rejection in no way gives me reasons to stop being good let alone start becoming evil.

  85. T.D | May 9th, 2010 | 3:33 am

    Mila Rangzen
    I suggest you to read a book titiled “LIFE BEFORE LIFE” by Jim B. Tucker.
    And also read books written by Prof. Ian Stevenson, university of virginia.

  86. Arihant | May 9th, 2010 | 6:15 am

    Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi la,
    We don’t want to idolize real Tibetans and indict them into almost to the state of deity-hood at which point we can’t even express our humble opinion about them. I acknowledge it was my mistake to attempt to dig the intention of Woeser’s article. But make it known that the immediate concern for Tibetans affected by Kyegu earthquake is meeting the desperate need of assistances to bring them back to their normal lives. For them, politicizing their tragedy is a luxury that they can’t afford at this moment.
    From videos I watched, news I read and conversations I had with people close to Kyegu, I am convinced that their wish to see His Holiness the Dalai Lama is sincere so is His wish to meet with them when they are in despair, lonely and disoriented with a cruel world presented in their face. His Holiness’s wish and wishes of Tibetans from disaster-affected Kyegu are in line with normal human behaviors when in despair. Also it’s worth to note that neither should Hu and Wen’s visits to Kyegu be criticized nor should the contribution from ordinary Chinese be underestimated. What ultimately good to the disaster affected people is good to me in this case.
    What if someone constantly criticizes you of your every action regardless of the merits of your action, could that criticism change your behaviors in any unexpected way? A self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing you know? I think we need to recognize with full conscious that the first and foremost, we are human beings and we act in some predictable patterns when we face similar circumstances.

  87. Arihant | May 9th, 2010 | 6:46 am

    K.P, T, M and P la. You people listen to me.
    Remember that religion is one of coping behaviors to ease the stress of disasters, personal tragedy, down and despair. You are not there to investigate whether their faith and belief can be substantiated into a tangible evidence that satisfies your “advanced” “rational” “logic”. What really matters here is whether their faith and belief can help ease their stress when they are in a stressful situation, uplift their mood when they are in despair, and optimize the meaning of life when they are in hopeless.
    After 9/11, most Americans surveyed said they turned to religion to cope with the tragedy. And the Bible sale rose up more than a quarter aftermath of the terrorist attack. Religion provides a sense of purpose and meaning when you face a difficult time by helping you developing positive and optimistic views of the world. His Holiness’s wish and wishes of Tibetans from disaster-effected Kyegu are in line with normal human behaviors when in despair. The karmic theory that His Holiness explained according to Buddhist doctrine can be treated as a Buddhist psychotherapy if you guys are comfortable with this western terminology. Of course this theory as many others can be manipulated to exploit poor people by the ruling class. That’s not fault of the theory itself.
    The earlier neurologist Jean Charcot and his student psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud proposed that religion caused neurosis and hysteria and largely shammed the religious role in treating psychological problem. And subsequently fool injees followed them for more than a century. Recently, there are researches popping up that show positive outcomes that recognizes religious roles in treatment provides significant coping behaviors when people are in stress, depressed and other mental distress.
    It’s fool you Digtruks LOL to blindly think any ideas coming from the West are advanced and scientific and so should be copied from, pasted into our society and be followed. Don’t assume that the West is the yardstick with which you measure everything against. Recognize the uniqueness of individual, the uniqueness of society and see beauty in them own right. I know Tibetans from Kugay Yigtsang to Songchid cleaners have positive discrimination against injees. Maybe subconsciously they all think that anything that comes from the West is “advanced” and “good”. I don’t care if you believe in atheism. That’s your belief. What I care is most Tibetans believe in religion in one form or others. As a Tibetan, it’s important to understand one’s own root and see faults in others. If you think it’s great to think outside of the box, don’t jump from one box into another and think that you are outside of the box.
    We don’t need to screen these religious ideas to see if they pass “the rational test”.

  88. Arihant | May 9th, 2010 | 7:11 am

    Thompa la,
    I made a poor choice of word in the comment #40.
    Psychologically, it’s more stressful to get nothing when you know you can demand for something versus when you complain about something. That’s beside the point.
    I hope you realize your rangzen dream. While you are in a dream, your brain automatically turns body off so that you don’t walk or do the things that appear in the dream and put you in danger.
    Is similar phenomena happening to Rangzen walas? I am afraid.

    Tsering la, That’s one dimension of Arihant who has conquered the inner enemies; some Tibetans, the outer enemies; some Chinese and the secret enemies; some injees.

  89. BodRangzen | May 9th, 2010 | 7:56 am

    Meanwhile Members of Congress cannot even allow themselves to describes quake victims as Tibetan!

    http://tibettruth.com/2010/05/09/honorable-congress-members-dishonor-tibet/

  90. tsering | May 9th, 2010 | 12:06 pm

    Years of conditioning and programming has taken the toll on him. He can’t see anything beyond boxes. Arihant was a student at Varanasi Layman Monastic Center for Higher Studies for 9 years and also Samdong Rinpoche’s first priority chamcha in exile govt for 15 years. With this in background it’s not hard to understand his clinging to the statusquo be it political or cultural and abhorance of anything west despite swimming with such joy in the western products such as the budweiser at Irish bar that he frequents! Have the guts to share your identity like others do here? I don’t think so.

  91. Arihant | May 9th, 2010 | 6:16 pm

    Tsering la, thanks for calling chamcha. I thought what I lacked most were the qualities of chamcha.

  92. Arihant | May 9th, 2010 | 6:18 pm

    “calling me”

  93. Mila Rangzen | May 10th, 2010 | 2:25 pm

    T.D
    several thousand stories of rebirth vs 100 trillion lives of no solid verifiable evidence in the last 2 million years as human and as a fish for 365 million years. skeptic that i am but if i were to choose one between the two i would go for the latter. may be i am wrong but probability decides in this largely guessing situation. i don’t remember a thing of my past life. do you?
    i ain’t stopping no one from sleeping in their belief system or faith. just curious how far mind can go into tricking us!

  94. Thompa | May 10th, 2010 | 10:51 pm

    Arihant,
    Well, Of-course it is stressful. It’s not a child game. The fate of six million Tibetans depends on this fight. But we don’t whine and cry like you Mr. Inner enemy conqueror. We don’t say, “oh, it leave us psychologically drain and exhausted when we don’t see any result”. There is thing call ‘Patient,’ I hope you heard of it before you conquer your inner little whiny enemy. Again, like I said, keep the fight alive and only time will tell. History has proven.

    Mila the coolest Tibetan atheist, I suggest you to be more mindful around your surrounding in your day-to-day life and activities. You will see the karmic process in progress every second. But if you need some thing more tangible evidence then try this. go out side for a walk, and just punch some stranger really hard and see what happen. But the stranger has to be your size or bigger for the sake of fairness. My good guess is you will not do it. You know why? Because you know in your head that the possibility of the same reaction is closer. so you wont do it. That’s tangible evidence of karmic process.
    Mila, there are so many examples of phenomena that we know it exist but cannot be tested with wire and tubes and verify with scientific math formula.

  95. Thompa | May 10th, 2010 | 11:28 pm

    Mila, Lol… So you don’t accept rebirth or past life, because you don’t REMEMBER a thing of past life?? Is that your logical reason?? He he he…. It dosnt exist because, “I don’t remember”.
    Mila, here is the question. did you flush your toilet last time you use? do you remember? probably not. so ‘probability’ decide largly guessing. so I am sure your reincaration little tulku is still in the toilet bowl. go there and flush it man. if some one sees it then they will think you are not the coolest atheist. ha ha ..

  96. Mila Rangzen | May 11th, 2010 | 12:00 am

    thompa,
    i thought you said karma is very complex. now you are making it so simple! i agree if you stab some one to death in the street most likely you will be arrested and sentenced to life in prison. but this is not what i am talking about here. jesus!
    your ‘reasoning’ in both your postings i heard a hundred times and i still find it child like at its best and childish at its worst. i expected a little more depth!

    this is your style if you were a christian.
    “have you seen oxygen?
    no.
    ‘but do you know it exists?’
    yes i do.
    so in the same way God-the creater exist although it can’t be seen!”

    as i said at the end of the day nobody knows for sure coz it lacks falsibiability. it’s a serious guessing system called belief/faith and let’s live it at that.

    belief or no belief
    up to each individual

  97. T.D | May 11th, 2010 | 3:01 am

    Mila Rangzen,
    I have nothing to say about the choice you made. But I, like many others, also choose my own.

    But is there any hard evidence that there is no life after death?

  98. Kalsang Phuntsok | May 11th, 2010 | 3:31 pm

    T.D

    The burden of proof lies on the shoulder of those who claim there is. Not the other way around.

    If you tell me that you see ghost in the dark and I don’t, why should I be required to prove there is no ghost.

    “Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence” – Carl Sagan

    Mila, sorry for jumping in.

  99. tsering | May 11th, 2010 | 3:48 pm

    Life after death cannot be proven or disproven. There is no actual direct evidence against an afterlife – only arguments refuting the specific examples of evidence for life after death as not being sufficient proof. Although it can easily be argued that not having direct knowledge of an afterlife constitutes evidence against life after death. Life after death cannot be disproven; only the evidence in its favour can be scrutinized and rational non-believers are left to make the conclusion that life after death cannot be proven.

  100. Mila Rangzen | May 11th, 2010 | 10:12 pm

    believers,
    your argument for karma and rebirth so far are not convincing at all in that it’s so shallow and explains nothing. but now tell me what is buddhahood, buddha and its qualities.

  101. Thompa | May 11th, 2010 | 10:44 pm

    Mila,
    Ok, I can sense these Dharmic talk are bit out of league since we are supposed to stick with rangzen topic. My apology to Jamnor la and folks here, but blame goes to Mila, lol. He he …
    Mila la, I think your cinch bet is three words, “I DON’T KNOW,’’ if some one ask you about life after death or karma. Instead of carrying huge banner with huge printed letter says, hey I am Tibetan but there is no karma or rebirth because the, Probability and possibility are tested and verified. Science never said life after death doesn’t exist. Because they know that they cannot prove it. So don’t get confuse of ‘knowing not existing,’ and ‘not knowing existing’. Let me conclude with this American smart ass comedian name Bill Mahar who made movie call, Religilous. Movie is about him looking for people who believe what they believe make any sense or any rational wisdom behind what they believe. He found none, and when people ask him if he believe in god. His answer was, simple,” I DON’T KNOW.”

    Kalsang la, I believe it is both ways around. Because if some one says there is NO BOMB in that un-claim box sitting on park bench is also, an extraordinary claim that require extraordinary evidence. Peace and Bho Rangzan…J

  102. Thompa | May 11th, 2010 | 11:00 pm

    Mila, No stabing please. Only punch..he he he

  103. T.D | May 12th, 2010 | 4:25 am

    Mila and Kalsang Phuntsok
    I am unable to express everything into English as I am not so good in this language. Therefore, today, I resort to use of Tibetan language in order explain you something I knew.
    འོ་ཡ།
    སྤྱིར་ནང་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་པའི་ཁྲོད་དུ་སྐྱེ་བ་སྔ་ཕྱི་འདི་བཞིན་དད་པ་ཁོ་ནས་ཁས་ལེན་བྱེད་མཁན་ཡོད་པ་དེ་དངོས་ཡོད་གནས་ཚུལ་རེད། འོན་ཀྱང་དད་པ་བྱེད་པ་ཙམ་གྱི་རྒྱུ་མཚན་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་དེ་ལ་རྒྱུ་མཚན་མེད་ཅེས་ཟེར་ན་རང་ཉིད་བློ་རྒྱ་ཆུང་བའི་སྐྱོན་ལས་མ་འདས།
    སྐྱེ་བ་ཕྱི་མ་ཡོད་ཚུལ་གྱི་སྒྲུབ་བྱེད་ནི་གཙོ་བོ་ཤེས་པའི་ཐོག་ནས་སྒྲུབ་ཅིང་། རྟེན་འབྲེལ་གྱི་རིགས་པ་ལ་བརྟེན་པ་ཡིན།
    ཡང་སྒྲུབ་བྱེད་ཡོད་ན་མི་ཚང་མས་ཤེས་རྟོགས་ཐུབ་པའི་ངེས་པ་མེད། དཔེར་ན་ཚན་རིག་པས་སའི་གོ་ལར་འཐེན་ཤུགས་ཡོད་པའི་སྒྲུབ་བྱེད་ཁག་མི་ཚང་མས་ཇི་ལྟར་བྱས་ནས་ཤེས་ཐུབ།

    ཡང་སྐྱེ་བ་སྔ་ཕྱི་དང་ལས་རྒྱུ་འབྲས་མེད་ཟེར་ན། མེད་ཚུལ་ཇི་ལྟར་ཡིན། སྐྱེ་བ་སྔ་ཕྱི་དང་ལས་རྒྱུ་འབྲས་ཡོད་པའི་སྒྲུབ་བྱེད་མ་རྙེད་པ་དེས་སྐྱེ་བ་སྔ་ཕྱི་དང་ལས་རྒྱུ་འབྲས་མེད་གོ་མི་ཆོད། མེད་ན་མེད་ཚུལ་གྱི་སྒྲུབ་བྱེད་དགོས། དཔེར་ན། དོན་གྲུབ་ཟེར་མཁན་ཞིག་མ་རྙེད་པའི་རྒྱུ་མཚན་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་ཤི་ཟིན་པ་ཐག་གཅོད་མི་ཐུབ། དོན་གྲུབ་གྱི་རོ་རྙེད་ན་ཤི་ཟིན་ཅེས་གཞི་ནས་བཤད་ཆོག་པ་ལྟ་བུའོ།

  104. T.D | May 12th, 2010 | 4:26 am

    I hope you two undertand Tibetan language as Tibetan.

  105. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 12th, 2010 | 1:47 pm

    “China good Luck”

    Massive earthquake devastated China’s Sichuan province two year ago, lost thousands of lives and many thousands are still unknown family finally get chance to register their loved ones for dead.

    China’s stupid law intentionally ignored families lost loved ones in earth Quack. 70,000 were killed and 18,000 unknown or yet disappeared in the devastation May 2008.

    China’s media press exaggerated so many ways that Chinese Government was stood on top of every possible way to help victims in Quack.

    Many thousand of families still in pain and suffering because lake of response and help from government medical, shelters and even foods and cloth. Families only accuse government not help but they also accusing so many Chinese NGOs and governmental organizations abused and corruption on so many millions of dollar donations from all over world.

    So many families are still been waiting government response why their children had been killed in such poorly constructed school building used inferior material. Some families spoke out for their dead souls came out stage to honor their only dead child’s spirit which crumbled in when poorly school buildings collapsed. Many of family kids mothers were jailed gave them an additional mental and physical pain and suffering.

    It is easy for China to recite their propaganda to attract world attention that they have been pending 96.3 billion dollars for reconstruction family home and school at earth quack zone Sichuan in China. The question is why there are still thousands of Chinese family yet not nearly satisfied what government have done for them. There are much be so many reasons yet to be discovered.

    Oh hold down….. I need to go to bath room and I will be right back.

    April 14 Yushu earth quack in Tibet is not so much different from Sichuan quack. So many thousand of families lost loved ones and homes were totally flatted by imaginable devastation. Monasteries, temples, office buildings, schools and homes of thousands are rootlessly vanished. Pains and sufferings that families and people in Yushu have been going through is hard to think.

    Thousands of monks from so many parts of Tibet rushed to Yushu to save lives and provide any help families need. Monk worked selflessly without food and even waters for days and nights saved so many lives and helped thousand of injured and of course enthusiastically prayed so deeply for our brothers and sisters victimized and let their souls peacefully passing through intermediate state and reborn again. Mothers, daughters, sons smashed up by the all thing still be try to be that compassionate Tibetans and peacefully singing Mantras and recite prayers with thousands of monks around the country came together to pay last respect and watched many heaps of firing bodies our brothers and sisters in cremation.
    Where is China? Where were those military rescuers sent to Sichuan to help? Why China took too long come over?
    Where there some body or group of Tibetan needs to abuse, China has thousands of military and Policy force ready to jump on, killing, torture, imprison even humiliation and we needs to wonder why China was on slow move when it comes to save lives in Tibet.

    Hundreds of people and school children were underneath collapsed building, homes for third day in debris still there wasn’t any sign governmentally help. Only reliability is that thousand of monk’s bear hands dig out holes saved hundred of lives.

    Even after some groups of Military came only thing they did was dig out some hole here and there. Screamed and yelled for few hours and then slowed down. For they most important thing act on camera. Whenever media or press of news reporter comes they acted like crazy as soon as camera go away nobody really cared about anything.

    According comment from Tibet, A father was begging a group of Chinese rescuers to help him dig his daughter inside collapsed building, they told him that “ Now is lunch time, you wait here and we will be right back after lunch” but nobody came back after lunch break.

    China shouted loud on TV but acted very little and disorganized and humiliated thousand monks hard works of whole rescue processes. Fifth day of earth quack Hu came to visit Tibet. He promised Tibetans to rebuild their lives. He picked up a chalk and wrote on a blackboard in front of Hundreds. “You will have school and you all will homes, I promise you” he kept saying that until he walked away from Yushu.

    The question is now; How soon all Tibetan families have livable home and kids have school to go to and monks have temples to do studies and prayer? How much money China plan to spend ? Is it just rely on sole international helps and donations? Or China will treat Tibetan no different from Sichuan Chinese plan to spend billions for million homes and school? What about their future? Is there any governmentally plan to help Tibetans to sustain their lives during this hardship?

    This is a very great opportunity for China to prove that they care about Tibetans and stay on promises that they made to rebuild and bridge the trust between local Tibetans and Chinese government.

    China this is chance, Good luck

  106. Dave | May 12th, 2010 | 9:04 pm

    quoting Arihant:
    ” If you think it’s great to think outside of the box, don’t jump from one box into another and think that you are outside of the box.” This is good, Arihant; I’m going to remember this one.

  107. Mila Rangzen | May 13th, 2010 | 1:21 am

    the membership fee for rangzen alliance can be raised to $100 per year. we need more of determined spirits than just many dead bodies walking around. a tiny office with one or two staff can be started in new york and dhasa within a year. when something like tibetan rangzen and mangtso party comes up our target will atleast be 2016 by which time we will have atleast 50 chitues and 10 kalons and 3 kalontripas within our own political party. whether this demand for equal access to power in dhasa shall be respected by our leadership remains to be seen.

    i wonder with what consistency, or decency TGIE will complain so loudly of no justice or freedom of opportunity inside tibet under enemy china if these very leaders were to dismiss this basic democratic opportunity to positions of authority that i, a citizen of tibet, am demanding, among other rights, to change the course of our struggle even if it’s for just one term?

  108. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 14th, 2010 | 11:35 am

    Where is the money for disaster victims?

    25/04/2010 23:41:00

    Secret China Staff

    In the wake of the southwestern China drought and the Qinghai Earthquake, the Chinese government announced that it was short in funds for disaster relief. When foreign governments offered rescue team and monetary assistance, the Chinese government responded by saying, “Yes please” to the money and, “No thanks” to the people. Let’s take a look at where the cash-strapped government spends its funds.

    In 2007:
    - Budget for the construction of the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail was increased to 220 billion yuan (U.S. dollar $31 billion)

    In 2008:
    - The central government unveiled a four trillion yuan ($571 billion) investment program
    - China cancelled over 40 billion yuan ($5.7 billion) debt owed by 46 countries
    - The Beijing Olympic Games cost 300 billion yuan ($43 billion)

    In 2009:
    - China exempted 150 debts of 32 countries
    - China’s assistance to African nations hit 76 billion yuan ($11 billion)
    - China’s assistance to North Korea reached 800 billion yuan ($114 billion)
    - Total holdings of U.S. debt reached 810 billion U.S. dollars; total external debt purchase reached 2 trillion U.S. dollars
    - Public bus expenditures hit 900 billion yuan ($129 billion) annually
    - State-controlled PetroChina announced, “Increasing our salary and wages by one billion yuan ($143 million) is small money”
    - Shanghai’s 5000 road sign replacement costs 200 million yuan ($29 million), an average of 40,000 yuan ($5,714) for each signs
    - total lending in China reached nearly 10 trillion yuan ($1.43 trillion)

    In 2010:
    - The 2010 Shanghai World Expo will cost 400 billion yuan ($57 billion)
    - The Shanghai-Hangzhou maglev cost 35 billion yuan ($5 billion) to save ten minutes of travel time
    - China promised North Korea an investment plan worth 70 billion yuan ($10 billion)
    - Hubei Province unveils a 12 trillion yuan ($1.7 trillion) investment plan

    In comparison, the 2010 drought in China’s five southwestern provinces is leaving 60 million people without water. The economical impact is 20 billion yuan ($2.9 billion). The Chinese government allocated 160 million yuan ($22.9 million) for drought relief. On the issue of universal healthcare, the government estimates that it would cost 160 billion yuan each year, and concluded that there is a lack of financial strength to achieve this!

  109. Choni Tsultrim Gyatso NJ | May 14th, 2010 | 11:46 am

    A slap in the face: Monks ‘not asked to leave Qinghai quake zone’?

    Xiusian Su (Secret China Staff)

    Did the Chinese government order the monks to go home? The Yushu prefectural governor, Wang Yuhu, was quoted by state news agency Xinhua on April 22 as saying that no such orders had been given or received by him.
    “We put no restrictions on the monks who joined the rescue and recovery operations, nor did we tell them to go home”.

    However the next day, a BBC’ report slapped Wang’s face. It said that China’s State Council recognized the positive contributions of Tibetan monks in the relief effort, “while we suggested to them that they return to their monasteries to ensure the high effectiveness and order of quake relief work.”

    Monks work tirelessly but asked to leave

    Hundreds of rescue workers had rushed to Yushu County in the wake of the 14 April earthquake. The most impressive workers were the monks. They began arriving in Yushu shortly after the earthquake and played a major role in digging people out of the rubble and tending to survivors. They also held cremation ceremonies by preparing hundreds of bodies and praying and burning the corpses in a massive trench outside of Yushu. Some netizens said that “the only intentions the monks have are rescuing people, not getting media coverage. Their relief efforts are more efficient than that of the officials”. Monks’ contributions are highly recognized.

    But China’s State Council said in a statement issued by its information office that “the duties of rescue workers in the quake zone are basically over and the focus has moved to disease prevention and reconstruction, which needs “specialized people”, therefore, the monks had been told to return their monastery.
    Some netizens responded that, “Spiritual consolation is very critical to the survivors. Not to mention a place like Yushu – high on the Tibetan plateau – Tibetans have their own belief. Pushing the monks out of Yushu is absolutely a major setback to the relief effort”.

    The harder the monks work, the more the Chinese government worries

    The population of Yushu is 350,000, and 97% is ethnic Tibetan, most of whom worship Buddhism. On April 19, Jia Qinglin, chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) said that, “Religious factors are too prominent” in the relief proceeding and worried about any disruption and damage caused by “outside forces” .

    Therefore, he required grasping unity while helping victims. Some netizens laughed at him and said that, “While the monks are rescuing people full heartedly, the regime still prevents them. How sad it is!”

    China Radio Network reported that the monks are far less “complicated” than what the central government suspected. Jiang Ga Luoren, the head of Yushu’s Dajie Monastery, said 83 of their monks went to Jiegu Town as soon as the earthquake stopped and dug people out of the rubble. Their intention was saving people, very pure

  110. bina | May 14th, 2010 | 11:49 am

    Well said Choni Tsultrim Gyatso, nice to read your words after all that silly squabling.
    The point is, Tibet suffers and will go on suffering as long as there are chinese in tibet.
    Should H.H. go to Tibet to pray for the suffering? He can pray in Dharamsala! At least He is safe there. Do any of you think he will be safe in Tibet? Please don’t say that He will be safe with all the attending publicity.The chinese have no shame, they will kill Him and smile and say it was an accident caused by militant Tibetans.
    My heart bleeds for Tibet and all the suffering Tibetans. I sorrow for the loss of life, the herds without pasture, the nonmads encarcerated and a foreign devil set on wiping out a whole people from their own land. I blame the united nations for refusing to help when H.H.went and asked for help.50 years ago they could have helped, now it is too late.
    I know I shouldn’t be so negative, but I realy believe that Tibet is lost.And I believed that when I was 10 years old and had just heard that the chinese had invaded. I could never understand why H.H. could be so compasionate towards the invaders: but then, I am not the incarnation of compassion and I have no compassion whatsoever for the invaders, I would like to see them all dead and Tibet left in peace.
    Never mind what anyone believes, religion is personal, it is what is in your heart that matters. The old life in Tibet may not have been perfect according to the western world or the chinese, but it was Tibetan and what could be better for Tibetans.
    Now I am English, but I know that aproximately 350 years ago, I was Tibetan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  111. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | May 14th, 2010 | 6:48 pm

    Choni, thanks for the financial stats. It is good to see it that way.

  112. Mila Rangzen | May 14th, 2010 | 7:19 pm

    bina,
    there are several other tibetan sites in english with great many articles, and some sweet comments but hardly any debate so i seldom go there. some sites have too many stuff packed on each screen that you wonder what the heck is going on there. but this site is plain and communication is very visible and i like some stimulation for growth and life. that’s why i am often here. debate however intellectually deficient it may be but to me it’s far better than some exchange of niceties, back patting and placating. i am a thinking person who likes questioning critically and i can’t afford to be credulous. i very much appreciate constructive criticism. debate where you shoot the opposing views with reasons, not the opponent with personal emotional crap, is very enriching.
    when the atmosphere for healthy exchange is missing you go “cut it out! next time”
    should any one feel the need to be sarcastic or need to look down upon the opponent just do so respectfully with a display of your intellectual prowess! not with cheap remarks. this way atleast silently i will acknowledge that you are a giant in the field of reasoning backed by evidence and may be i can learn a few things.

    in this case it all started with the earthquake in jekundo, HH’s karmic words of condolence in dhasa, buddhist viewpoint and atheist’s skepticism and so forth.

    is there really a need to worry about HH’s safety in tibet now while the door of chinese official policy toward him as tibet’s leader is firmly closed?
    wishing is one thing but can you ask yourself if you could make attempts to convert that wish into action, if not now, at a latter day in your life?
    well in 1939 you may have died as a young chinese soldier! trained to get rid of the savages on the roof of the world? ! ! today you are something and tomorrow a top chinese leader!
    circular reality! no end in sight. go ahead!

  113. Thompa | May 15th, 2010 | 2:16 am

    Mila i agree 100% with you. squiabling is not what i think we are doing here. but, Bina, you have raise few interesting. Choeni la, great info. thank you

  114. T.D | May 15th, 2010 | 10:26 am

    “life after death and Karma”?
    Afraid of Tibetan language?

  115. tsering | May 15th, 2010 | 7:47 pm

    People,
    Stop laughing at Tibetans who are weak in Tibetan language. It doesn’t make you ‘more’ Tibetan and they ‘less’. This is a casuality present in every culture and community. Just don’t make an issue out of it. It only makes you look cheap and childish. Of course it’s important for every Tibetan to be a part of cultural preservation and promotion. But almost every one is weak in some aspect of Tibetan. Just don’t stretch it too far.
    ‘Cultural diabetics’ due to natural individual difficulties and circumstances have the same right as any other to object the Chinese invasion and occupation by force. Reason to fight the Chinese is much more than some cultural issue.
    Can any one figure that out in a sentence?

  116. Mila Rangzen | May 16th, 2010 | 1:34 am

    Principles of Tibetan Democracy?
    Party system is the answer!

    1. What is the supreme law of the Tibetans in exile?
    A: the charter (of course constitution of host nation)

    2. What must the charter do?
    A: set up the government
    A: define the government
    A: protect basic rights of Tibetans

    3. The idea of self-government is in the first three words of the Charter. What are these words?
    A: We the People

    4. What is an amendment?
    A: a change (to the Charter)
    A: an addition (to the Charter)

    5. What are the basic rights or freedom from the charter?
    A: speech
    A: religion
    A: assembly
    A: press
    A: petition the government

    6. How many amendments does the Charter have?
    A: 9

    7. What did the Declaration of Tibetan Independence in 1913 do?
    A: announced our independence (from China)

    8. What are three rights in the Declaration of Tibetan Independence?
    A: life
    A: liberty
    A: pursuit of happiness

    9. What is freedom of religion?
    A: You can practice any religion, or not practice a religion.

    10. What is the economic system in the exile community?
    A: capitalist economy/ market economy (farming! cattle rearing! sweater selling!)

    11. What is the “rule of law”?
    A: Everyone must follow the law.
    A: Leaders must obey the law.
    A: Government must obey the law.
    A: No one is above the law.

    B. System of Government

    12. Name one branch or part of the government.*
    A: parliament
    A: legislative
    A: kalon tripa
    A: executive
    A: the civil courts
    A: judicial
    A: Kashag

    13. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?
    A: checks and balances
    A: separation of powers

    14. Who is in charge of the executive branch?
    A: the Kalon Tripa

    15. Who makes central laws?
    A: members of parliament
    A: national legislature

    16. What must be the two parts of the Tibetan parliament?
    A: upper house and lower house

    17. How many Tibetan MPs are there?
    A: forty six (46)

    18. We elect a Tibetan MP for how many years?
    A: five (5)

    19. What must the number of election seats be based upon in the lower house?
    A: population of a Tibetan area in exile. No choka cholug representation system.

    20. The lower House must have how many voting members?
    A: fifty (50)

    21. We must elect upper house member for how many years?
    A: five (5

    22.What must the number of election seats be based upon in the upper house?
    A: 2 from each province and 1 from each sect and bon religion

    23 Who does a Tibetan parliament represent?
    A: all people in the Tibetan world

    24. Why must some areas have more Representatives than other areas?
    A: (because of) the area’s population
    A: (because) they have more people
    A: (because) some areas have more people

    25. We elect a Kalon Tripa for how many years?
    A: five (5)

    26. In what month do we vote for Kalon Tripa?
    A:

    27. What is the name of the Kalon Tripa now?
    A: Samdong lama

    28. What is the name of the Tibetan deputy prime minister now?
    A: none. There must be a deputy kalon tripa.

    29. If the Kalon Tripa can no longer serve, who becomes Kalon Tripa?
    A: a Kalon or re-election?

    30. If both the Kalon tripa and the Deputy Kalon Tripa can no longer serve, who becomes Kalon Tripa?
    A: the Speaker of the parliament?

    31. Who is the president of Tibetan exile govt?
    A: the Dalai Lama

    32. Who signs bills to become laws?
    A: the Dalai Lama

    33. Who vetoes bills?
    A: the Dalai Lama

    34. What does the Kalon Tripa’s Kashag do?
    A: advises the Kalon Tripa

    35. What are Kashag-Level positions?
    A: kalon of Agriculture
    A: kalon of Finiance
    A: kalon of security
    A: kalon of Education
    A: kalon of Health
    A: kalon of home
    A: kalon of Treasury
    A: kalon of Religion
    A: kalon of culture

    36. What does the judicial branch do?
    A: reviews laws
    A: explains laws
    A: resolves civil disputes (disagreements)
    A: decides if a law goes against the Charter

    37. What is the highest court in the Tibetan world?
    A: the Supreme Court in Dhasa

    38. How many justices are on the Supreme Court?
    A: 3

    39. Who is the Chief Justice of the Tibetan world?
    A:

    40. Under our Charter, some powers belong to the Kalon Tripa. What is one power of the Kalon Tripa?
    A: to close govt run businesses including those that generates profits!
    A: to start organic farming!
    A: to force Tibetan medium of instruction in every Tibetan school!
    A: to put all govt money in banks!

    41. What must be the two major political parties in the Tibetan world?
    A: Uma and Rangzen

    42. What is the political party of the Kalon Tripa now?
    A: Uma (the only Party that exists now)

    43. What is the name of the Speaker of the Tibetan parliament now?
    A: Penpa Tsering

    C: Rights and Responsibilities

    44. Describe one requirement to vote.
    A: Tibetans eighteen (18) and older (can vote).

    45. What is one responsibility that is only for Tibetans?
    A: vote

    46. What are two rights only for Tibetans?
    A: apply for a govt job
    A: vote
    A: run for office
    A: carry a Tibetan green book

    47. What are two rights of every Tibetans in exile?
    A: freedom of expression
    A: freedom of speech
    A: freedom of assembly
    A: freedom to petition the government
    A: freedom of worship
    A: freedom of association

    48. What do we show loyalty to when we say the Pledge of Allegiance?
    A: Tibet
    A: the flag

    49. What is one promise you make as a Tibetan?
    A: give up loyalty to China
    A: defend the Charter and laws of Tibet in exile
    A: obey the laws of the Tibet in exile
    A: serve in the 22 military (if needed)
    A: serve (do important work for) the nation (if needed)
    A: be loyal to Tibet and Independence

    50. How old do Tibetans have to be to vote for Kalon Tripa?
    A: eighteen (18) and older

    51. What are two ways that Tibetans can participate in their democracy?
    A: vote
    A: join a political party
    A: help with a campaign
    A: join a civic group
    A: join a community group
    A: give an elected official your opinion on an issue
    A: call chithue, kalon and kalon tripa
    A: publicly support or oppose an issue or policy
    A: run for office
    A: write to a newspaper and media

    52. When is the last day you can pay green book dues?
    A: same year

    TIBETAN HISTORY

    A: Communist neighbor and Independence

    53. What is one reason Tibetans came to exile?
    A: loss of freedom, independence and sovereignty
    A: loss of political liberty
    A: loss of religious freedom
    A: loss of economic opportunity
    A: to escape persecution and forced starvation

    54. Who are the majority in Tibet now?
    A: Chinese colonists
    .
    55. Why did the Tibetans fight the Chinese?
    A: because of invasion, occupation and persecution

    56. Who wrote the Declaration of Tibetan Independence?
    A: the thirteenth Dalai Lama

    57. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?
    A: 1913

    58. There were 3 original states. Name them.
    A: dotoe
    A: domey
    A: utsang

    59. When was the Charter written?
    A: 1991

    60. What is one thing Andruk Gompo is famous for?
    A: led the fight against Chinese as an organization

    61. Who is the “Father of Our Country”?
    A: Songtsen Gompo

    62. Who was the first kalon tripa?
    A: Lhukhangwa

    63. What territory did Tibet sell to British India for arms and ammunition in 1910?
    A: Mon Tawang
    A: Ladak!
    A: Sikim!
    A: Bhutan!

    64. Name one war fought by Tibet in its history.
    A: China war in 7th century
    A: Persian war in 8th century
    A: Gurkha war
    A: Naga war
    A: Civil War 20TH century

    65. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.
    A: sectarian politics and lack of Democratic Party system

    66. What was one important thing that the thirteenth Dalai Lama did?
    A: declared Tibetan independence
    A: strengthened Tibetan military
    A: advised the military to use force against china when necessary

    67. What did Amdo Gedhun Chophel do?
    A: fought for free critical thinking and freedom of expression

    C: Recent Tibetan History and Other Important Historical Information

    68. Did Tibet since 1949 fight more or hoped more?
    A. of course hoped more! Despite being deceived over and over. And prayed even more!

    69. What happened to Tibet and Tibetans in 1959?
    A: Chinese occupation completed. Around 100,000 Tibetans got kicked out of their home country for the first time in its 2000 year old political history.

    70. What did Lhasang Tsering do?
    A: urged the exile leadership openly to lead the fight for Independence

    71. What did Jamyang Norbu do?
    A: wrote Rangzen Charter, Genuine Mangtso

    72: What did Thupten Ngodup do?
    A: He gave his life in flames for Rangzen in Delhi 1998.

    INTEGRATED CIVICS

    A: Geography

    73. Name one of the two longest rivers in Tibet.
    A: tsangpo
    A: drichu

    74. Name two important mountains in Tibet.
    A: mount kailash and mount everest

    75. Name one nation that borders Tibet.
    A: China
    A: India
    A: Nepal
    A: Bhutan
    A: Myanmar
    A: East Turkistan
    A: Mongolia

    B. Symbols

    76. Why does the flag have lions?
    A: to symbolize the bravery of a people on the roof of the world

    77. What is the name of the national anthem?
    A: sishi phende

    C: National days

    78. When do we commemorate uprising day?
    A: March 10

    Let those in political power not use their individual religious philosophy to influence or decide matters political.

  117. T.D | May 16th, 2010 | 1:36 am

    People
    I am not laughing at anybody.
    I just want to remind you that if you really want to criticise something you feel totally unreasonable, you should have thorough understanding about the idea/view/doctrine you disagree with.

    Before you criticise against certain aspects of our culture and religion, spend sometime to study them thoroughly. For that purpose, good understanding of Tibetan language is minimal requirement.

    genuine criticism is always welcomed.

  118. T.D | May 16th, 2010 | 2:03 am

    Former president of the US once said that God had asked him to invade Iraq. And he attented the funeral of Pope John Pual at vatican city. I think Tony Blair converted to Catholic.

    Songtsen Gampo, Trisong Detsen and Tri Ralpachen were Tibetan Buddhist practioners. Two of them, I am not sure of Tri Ralpachen, wrote commentaries on Buddhist scriptures.

    There is a difference between Church and Politics and Religion and Politics.

  119. Mila Rangzen | May 16th, 2010 | 2:29 am

    T.D
    My loving dharma practioner!
    I just want to remind you that if you really want to DEFEND something you feel totally reasonable, you should have thorough understanding about the idea/view/doctrine you AGREE with.

    Before you DEFEND your religion, spend sometime to study(and practice?) it thoroughly. For that purpose, good understanding of Tibetan language is NOT a requirement. It may very well help though. Translation is available in many languages. Major Buddhist texts in Tibetan are translation from Sanskrit or Pali.

    Neither the existence nor nor non-existence of karma/rebirth can be proved!

  120. Mila Rangzen | May 16th, 2010 | 2:35 am

    OMG!

  121. T.D | May 16th, 2010 | 3:57 am

    Mila
    “Translation is available in many languages”. This line implies your ignorance.

    I am not defending my religion because I don’t see you people as a threat. But as a Tibetan, I pity you people’s way of presenting your argument. So weak and illogical.

  122. Mila Rangzen | May 16th, 2010 | 4:10 am

    no one is saying or implying that you as an individual can’t have religious beliefs or that you as a politician can’t meet religious figures or that govt must not protect the religious rights.
    Let those in political power not use their individual religious philosophy to influence or decide matters political. let the constitution or charter be free from influences of any religion.
    are we clear?
    “There is a difference between Church and Politics and Religion and Politics.” what is it? if you don’t mind, i like to hear from your innocent delicate lips!

  123. Mila Rangzen | May 16th, 2010 | 4:40 am

    this is you saying.
    “that which is not seen need not mean it doesn’t exist, for there are many paths that a donkey has not come across”
    this is not explaining anything.sorry!

    “have you seen your great grand father?”
    no.
    “but do you know you had a great grand father?”
    yes, i do.
    “how do you know that you had one without having seen him all your life?”
    i am therefore he was!

    this is little better but again proves not karma/rebirth. sorry there is no need for you to entertain missionary pity!

    how long have you been studying, practicing and meditating buddha dharma?
    what’s your major? seen you at the school!

    beliefs or no beliefs
    basic human respect gets along

  124. Karen Stone | May 16th, 2010 | 5:09 am

    What a great piece, it is sad that such a tragedy was the impetus for sharing this rich history with us, but thank you for doing so. It is always so important to put these events into the context of the people who are involved. As you say, not just names or even faces, but flesh and blood and bones.

  125. T.D | May 16th, 2010 | 6:17 am

    Mila lak
    I am just a Tibetan who happens to have DELICATE lips prabably right from birth.

    Here is the answer.
    Religion is a personal choice and cannot be separated from individual. Therefore any decision taken by such people have certain impact from his/her own faith.

    Church is an institution based on certain rules and objectives. It can be separated from Politics.

    Therefore, before we jump to the conclusion, first we need a clear understanding about what CHOS means in our case(Chos Si Zungdrel). Does it mean religion or Church?
    If it means Church (in our case, ཆོས་བརྒྱུད་དམ་ལུགས།), then I am against it.

  126. tsering | May 16th, 2010 | 6:48 am

    T.D.
    Your are not reading his posts. You are just hearing things he didn’t say. Go take an introduction to philosophy class for 3 months
    (3 hours a week). Hopefully you won’t will so one sided.

  127. T.D | May 16th, 2010 | 7:18 am

    heheheh

  128. jigme | May 16th, 2010 | 8:44 am

    Mila
    Ignore T.D.!!!

    Shes a pseudo intellectual. She rants illogically.! Waste of time.

  129. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | May 16th, 2010 | 12:43 pm

    Unfortunately, we have too many of those and so few who are willing to be truthful and defend their position. One need to take only a cursory look at Tibetan history to understand mixing religion with politics is bad, not necessarily evil(I sincerely believe it wasn’t as manipulative as church in the middle ages) but bad nonetheless for the nation. Ask Europe about it. Watch it live in middle east. It has nothing to do with Buddhism. Buddhism as a philosophy and as a way of life, in my opinion, is the best out there. Trying to cherry pick words and meaning doesn’t help the conversation nor help to recognize the dilemma we have in exile. You have to be careful being a devil’s advocate all the time because that might end up being your intellectual disposition – you would not be seeking the truth but merely trying to find faults with it, forever plagued with the failure to weight issues. Destination: Intellectual wasteland.

  130. tsering | May 16th, 2010 | 4:54 pm

    T.D
    Does church not represent christianity? Is christianity not a religion?
    Go to http://www.kalontripa2011.org and listen to HH’s speech on choesi-sungdrel and why he does not support it.

  131. T.D | May 17th, 2010 | 4:10 am

    Sometimes this system is beneficial and sometimes not. It depends on the circumstances.

    Here, in this blog, what I am trying to convey is that the religion and politics cannot be separated as long as the politicians themselves are believers. Because that person is under the influence of his/her faith.

    Yes. Chritainity is a religion. But one type of church cannot represent Chritianity.

  132. arihant | May 18th, 2010 | 5:47 pm

    Tsering la, it seems that you have taken “the philosophy class” that tries to find answers to such questions as “Who am I?” “What is happiness?”
    If you have a good grasp on the basic principle of Buddhism, you will find out that such “philosophy classes” are for chota bacha. Most of these classes can’t dare to venture into more advanced eastern philosophy.
    There is an advice for you from the 6th Dalai Lama.
    Here it goes:
    ནོར་བུ་རང་ལ་ཡོད་དུས།།
    ནོར་བུའི་ནོར་ཉམས་མ་ཆོད།།
    ནོར་བུ་མི་ལ་ཤོར་དུས།།
    སྙིང་རླུང་སྟོད་ལ་འཚངས་བྱུང་།།
    It seems that some of us have some kind of biased inferiority complex toward our own bank of knowledge, and our own identity labeling pseudo intellectual for those who have a good knowledge of our own Rigshong རིག་གཞུང་། These Tibetans seem so beat up in some ways. I would love to find out why.

  133. Monsieur P | May 18th, 2010 | 5:56 pm

    Walk for Tibet 2010 Press Release

    For World Peace, Human Rights, and Tibetan Independence

    Walk for Tibet 2010 begins Sunday May 9, 2010 at 10:00am from Indianapolis Indiana Monument Circle and ends over 600 miles later in Minneapolis Minnesota. It will proceed through 3 of the largest Tibetan communities in the midwest: Chicago, Madison, and Minneapolis. Jigme Norbu (son of Taktser Rinpoche Thubten J Norbu and nephew of His Holiness The Dalai Lama) will walk the entire journey. Tenzin Jamyang, ex-President Tibet Alliance of Chicago, will also join and assist along the way. Jigme has completed more than 16 walks and bike rides altogether and have compiled over 4500 miles in the United States and overseas.

    Last year in March of 2009, Jigme Norbu completed a walk from Indianapolis to NewYork which was 900 miles for Tibet. Once again Jigme Norbu is dedicating this walk to his father who spent his life advocating Tibet awareness and Tibet Independence as well as the memory of all our brother and sisters who have died in peaceful protest to the brutal suppression of Tibet by communist China for the past 6 decades. Also in dedication to all the victims and lives that were lost and suffering to the families of the recent earthquake trajedy in Tibet.

    We would really appreciate your support by posting our press release and blog on your website. Please also send this event to all of your email list members and friends.

    Thank You!

    Stay Connected
    Web: ambassadorsforworldpeace.org
    Facebook: http://www.facebook.com
    Twitter: twitter.com/fightfortibet
    E-Mail: walkfortibet@ambassadorsforworldpeace.org

  134. A Salar | May 19th, 2010 | 12:54 am

    Hi Folks,

    I need to get some extra yuan from the Chinese embassy, so I’m back. Actually, I’m lured back because, as a commenter said previously on this thread, this blog is the most engaging and exciting one on Tibet-related politics. All credit goes to JN, Christophe, and every one of you to make it such a success. I hope that my modest observation won’t “threaten” anyone again.

    What I meant to say in my last post (No. 34) was that Tibetans inside Tibet need positive role models from among themselves for collective survival. And I suggested looking at us Salar people—a much smaller minority with far less government resources than Tibetans—as ONE example (that is, not THE example). Clearly it backfired because I was again “boasting.” So, I have found a recent book that may be useful to you folks (who read Chinese). The Tibetans in this book are “real”, both in the sense the book is not fictional and in the sense they come out alive a real humans, not the stereotypes of either Shangri-La monks or primitive savages. They are “successful” each in his or her distinct individual way that together should make every Tibetan and friends of Tibet proud!

    Here is the link: http://vip.book.sina.com.cn/book/index_118928.html

    T.D.
    I admire you for your determination to stop the onslaught of capitalism, but I trust that you will agree with me that no one can realistically accomplish that. Just think about how many people have tried, from Marx to Mao to Che. It’s easier said than done when you have the very luxury to say that. That, folks in Tibet don’t have.

  135. Mila Rangzen | May 19th, 2010 | 4:18 am

    TGIE has been asking for autonomy for more than two decades now with no result in sight. Instead the Chinese immigrant population inside Tibet is increasing even more rapidly, posing the greatest threat to us as a people in our own homeland. Hoping and waiting for some understanding and autonomy from China is like the lamb begging for mercy and freedom from the jaws of the wolf. Not only is independence desired by majority of the Tibetan people but also believed to be the only realistic and unifying goal worthy of a struggle however difficult and uncertain it may seem. For an independence struggle to be effective its government’s political stand for the same goal is of paramount importance.
    unfortunately, We, the independence believers, don’t have this crucial support from our own leadership. This support is rather impossible to come by from a government that is run by what can be called Middle Way Party(the only political party in exile) who stands between our hopes and dreams of a free and independent Tibet and who is unwittingly contributing to the destruction of our sense of nationhood and our longing for our homeland. how ludicrous! Our political system is an absolutely undemocratic one where an elected prime minister does not have the constitutional powers to make fundamental changes like changing the direction and vision of our struggle if the present ‘easy do nothing’ policy can be called one. it is massive deception. a lie that i can’t buy..not even if i were to be hanged this moment before tsuklagkhang. Of course if a Rangzen believer as Kalon Tripa decides to discard the Middle Way Approach, there can be no doubt that he would be removed literally from his office through some form of ‘struggle session’ and his political career effectively terminated. The job of the prime minister in the exile Tibetan government is, first and foremost, to carry out the policies and the wishes of just one individual..who in this case happens to be the Dalai Lama.
    So merely changing the Kalon Tripa and Chithues is not going to help. Therefore, I demand the formal introduction of bi-party system with blessings from HH so we too can have equal access and opportunity for power in Dhasa, among other rights, to change the course of our struggle for independence for once and for all.
    the day party system comes into being i shall voluntarily cease to have justification of any kind to bitch at the tibet-china policy of middle way party if it happens to be in power through fair democratic elections. but the million dollar question is …does TGIE have the guts to give us a chance in the first place? does it have the balls to practice what it preaches..democracy in action? does our leadership have the confidence to win the election and support of the majority of the Tibetan people with regard to its national policy? i don’t think so. if you do, i challenge you for a election showdown!

    independence believers and party system supporters! although the word democracy does not exist in the American constitution but we know it is democracy…democracy in equal opportunity in all aspects of life although i do not claim it is a perfect one. however in our case we cannot afford to sit tight and expect some legitimacy in action on its own. we have to demand it from our leadership! we have to do anything radical to create at least a stormy debate in the Tibetan diaspora that would shake the knees of the power lovers in dhasa! it is our duty, and our responsibility alone!

    you can express your self and i am open to new ideas…but lately too many obsessive missionary rantings here…please do so without shoving your opinions down my throat unless you want to be ignored like a drunk teenager on the rampage!

  136. འཇིགས་མེད། | May 19th, 2010 | 1:49 pm

    མཁས་དབང་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས། སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་ཡི་ལོ་རྒྱུས་བསྡུ་བསྒྲིགས་བྱས་པར་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ། གུས་པ་ནི་དབྱིན་ཇི་ཡག་པོ་ཤེས་མཁན་ཞིག་མིན་པས་ནམ་རྒྱུན་དབྱིན་ཡིག་གི་དྲ་རྒྱ་རྣམས་སུ་ཉུལ་བ་དགའ་བོ་མེད། འོན་ཀྱང་སྐུ་ཉིད་ཀྱིས་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་ཡི་གནས་ཚུལ་ཞིག་བྲིས་འདུག་པ་ཐོས་པས་ཆེད་དུ་འདིར་ཡོང་བ་ཡིན། གནས་ཚུལ་ཕལ་མོ་ཆེ་ཁ་གསལ་པོ་དང་། ཁུངས་བཙན་པོ་ཞིག་ཡོད་བཟོ་འདུག དེའི་ནང་ནས་དོགས་གནས་འགའ་ཞིག་འདུག་པས་གསལ་བཤད་བྱེད་འདོད་བྱུང་བས་དགོངས་འགལ་མེད་པར་མཛོད།
    ༡༽ཡུལ་ཤུལ་གྱི་ཐད་དུ། ཡུལ་ལུང་འདིར་ཆེས་སྔ་མོ་ཞིག་ཏུ་ལྡོང་རག་མ་རྒྱལ་མཚན་བྱ་བ་ལ་བུ་གསུམ་སྟེ། ཡུལ་རིས་དང་། རག་རིས། དགེ་རིས་གསུམ་བྱུང་བས་ཕ་ཡིས་ཡུལ་ལུང་གསུམ་གྱི་དཔོན་པོར་བསྐོས་པར་གྲགས། དེ་དག་གི་ཤུལ་དུ་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་དང་། རག་ཤུལ། དགེ་ཤུལ་བཅས་ལུང་པ་བྱེ་བྲག་པ་གསུམ་གྱི་མིང་དུ་གྱུར། འདི་དག་གི་ལྡོང་ཤུལ་ཆེན་བཅོ་བརྒྱད་ཀྱི་གྲས་ནས་ཡིན་པ་རེད། ད་དུང་འདི་ལ་བཤད་ཚུལ་མི་མཐུན་པ་ཕྲན་བུ་ཡོད་ཀྱང་སྤུན་གསུམ་གྱི་རྗེས་ཤུལ་ཡིན་པ་ཁ་གཅིག་མཐུན་ཡིན། ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ཐོག་མར་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ལིང་ཚེ་དྲུག་ཅེས་པའི་ཚོ་པ་ཆུང་ཆུང་དྲག་ཅན་གྱི་སྤྱི་མིང་ཙམ་ཡིན། དེ་ནས་ཕྱིས་སུ་༡༩༥༡ལོར་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་འདིར་བོད་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་གི་ཁུལ་གྱི་སྲིད་གཞུང་འཛུགས་སྐབས་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་གྱི་མིང་དེ་ཉིད་ཁུལ་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་མིང་དུ་འཕོས་པ་རེད། སྒ་སྐྱ་ལོ་སེང་ལྕམ་འབྲུག་མོ་དང་། སྒ་ཚ་ཞང་ལྡན་མ་བྱང་ཁྲ་སོགས་གླིང་སྒྲུང་ནང་གི་མི་སྣ་གཡེར་པོ་ཆེ་མང་པོ་ཞིག་འདི་ནས་བྱུང་བ་ཡིན་ནའང་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ཞེས་པ་གླིང་གེ་སར་གྱི་ཕ་ཡུལ་གྱི་ཤུལ་ཡིན་པ་གོ་མྱོང་མེད།
    ༢༽ནང་ཆེན་གྱི་ཐད་དུ། ནང་ཆེན་ཞེས་པའི་ནང་དེ་དམངས་ཁྲོད་དུ་ནང་བློན་ཆེན་པོར་འགྲེལ་སྲོལ་ཡོད་ཀྱང་དོན་ངོ་ནི་ནང་སོ་ཆེ་ཆུང་གཉིས་བྱུང་བའི་ཆེ་བ་དེའི་མིང་རེད། ནང་སོ་ནི་སྔར་བོད་བཙན་པོའི་སྐབས་སུ་ནང་གི་ཁབ་སྲུང་བའི་དམག་དཔོན་གྱི་མིང་དང་། དེ་ནས་རིམ་གྱིས་བོད་ཀྱི་མངའ་ཐང་ཉམ་ཞིང་དམག་གི་ལས་ཀ་ཤོར་རྗེས་བླ་བྲང་དང་། ཡང་ན་ཕྱག་མཛོད་སོགས་ལ་འཇུག་པ་རེད། མདོར་ན་སྡེ་པ་ནང་ཁུལ་དུ་བཀོད་འདོམས་བྱེད་པའི་དབང་ཚད་ཅན་ཞིག་ལ་སྔ་ཕྱི་བར་གསུམ་དུ་གོ་བ་རེད། འགྲོ་མགོན་ཏི་ཤྲི་རས་པ་དགོངས་པ་རྫོགས་རྗེས་བུ་སློབ་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་བླ་མའི་སྐུ་གདུང་བཞུགས་ས་སྐུ་འབུམ་རྩ་བའམ་སྐུ་འབུམ་དགོན་པ་ཞེས་པར་བཞེངས། དེ་ནས་དགོན་པ་དེར་ནང་སོ་ལྷ་ཁང་ཆེན་མོ་བྱ་བ་བཞེངས་པ་ནས་ནང་སོ་ཞེས་པའི་མིང་འདི་བྱུང་བ་རེད། དེའི་སྐབས་སུ་ནང་སོ་གཅིག་མ་གཏོགས་མེད་པས་ཆེ་ཅུང་གི་སྐད་ཅ་མེད་པ་རེད། དེའི་རྗེས་སུ་ནང་སོ་འདི་ལས་ཆུང་བ་ཞིག་བྱུང་བས་གདོད་ནང་སོ་ཆེ་ཆུང་བྱུང་བ་རེད། ཕྱིས་སུ་བསྡུས་མིང་དུ་ནང་ཆེན་ཞེས་བོས་པ་ཙམ་ལས་ནང་བློན་ཆེན་མོའི་གོ་དོན་དང་། ལྷག་པར་རྒྱ་ནག་གི་ནང་བློན་ཆེན་མོའི་གོ་དོན་དེ་ལས་ཀྱང་ཡོད་པ་མ་རེད།
    ༣༽རྒྱ་ནག་མ་ཎི། འདི་ནི་ཁམས་ཆབ་མདོར་འཁྲུངས་པའི་བྱ་གཏང་རྒྱལ་ཁམས་པ་རྟོགས་ལྡན་བྱང་ཆུབ་འཕགས་དབང་བྱ་བ་རྒྱ་གར་དང་། རྒྱ་ནག་ལྷག་པར་རི་བོ་རྩེ་ལྔ་ཡུན་རིང་བཞུགས་རྗེས་གནས་འདིར་བྱོན་པས་རྒྱ་ནག་རྟོགས་ལྡན་གྲགས། རྒྱ་ནག་རྟོགས་ལྡན་འདི་ནི་དཀར་དགེ་གཉིས་ཟུང་འབྲེལ་གྱིས་ཉམས་ལེན་གནང་མཁན་ཞིག་ཡིན། ཕྱི་ལོ་༡༧༡༥ལོར་རྡོ་ཨ་དཀར་གྱི་ངོས་སུ་བརྐོས་པའི་མ་ཎི་འགའ་ཞིག་བཞག་ནས་ནམ་ཞིག་ཕར་ཕྱོགས་ནས་རྟ་པ་མདུང་བཟུང་འགྲོ་སྐབས་ཚུར་ཕྱོགས་ནས་མི་མཐོང་བར་རྒྱས་ངེས་ཡིན་ཞེས་ལུང་བསྟན། དེ་ནས་ལོ་རེ་ནས་ཇེ་རྒྱས་སུ་སོང་། རིག་གསར་སྐབས་གཏོར་སྐྱོན་ཆེ། འོན་ཀྱང་གཏན་མེད་བཟོ་མ་ཐུབ། ༨༠ནང་དུ་རྒྱ་ནག་སྤྲུལ་སྐུ་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་དྲུག་པས་བསྐྱར་གསོ་འགོ་བཙུགས། དེ་རིང་དེ་ཙམ་ཡིན། ནོར་ན་བཅོས་རོགས། དྲ་ཐག་འདི་ལ་གཟིགས་རོགས།
    http://www.khabdha.org/?p=7868

  137. Arihant | May 20th, 2010 | 6:59 am

    སྔོན་མ་ནས་དབྱིན་ཡིག་ཏུ་Jyekundo བྲིས་པ་འདི་བོད་ཡིག་གི་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་ལ་གཞི་བཟུང་མིན་འདུག་བསམས་སོང་། འདི་ཕལ་ཆེར་ཀྱེ་སྐུ་མདོ་ལ་གཞི་བཅོལ་བ་འདྲ། ཡུལ་མིའི་ཁ་སྐད་དུའང་ཀྱེ་སྐུ་ཟེར་བ་མ་གཏོགས། སྐྱེ་དགུ་ཟེར་བ་ཞིག་གོ་མ་མྱོང་།

    འཇམ་ནོར་ལགས་ཀྱི་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་གྱི་འགྲེལ་བ་དེ་ནས་ང་ལ་རྣམ་རྟོག་གཞན་ཞིག་སྐྱེས་པ་ནི་གཡུལ་ཤུལ་ནས་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་དུ་གྱུར་བ་ཡང་ཡིན་སྲིད་པ་ཞིག་རེད་བསམས། གཡུལ་ཤུལ་ཟེར་བ་ནི་མཁྱེན་གསལ་ལྟར་དབྱིན་ཡིག་ཏུ་ battleground ཟེར་བ་དང་། འཇམ་ནོར་ལགས་ཀྱིས་གསུངས་པ་བཞིན་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ནི་གླིང་རྗེ་གེ་སར་རྒྱལ་པོའི་གཡུལ་འགྱེད་བྱེད་སའི་ས་ཆ་མང་པོ་ཡོད་པའི་ནང་གི་གཅིག་ལ་གོ་བ་མིན་ནམ། འཇམ་ནོར་གྱིས་བྲིས་གནང་པའི་ཚིག་ཟུར་ནས་བལྟས་ན་ཕལ་ཆེར་ Yushu is one of the battlegrounds of the epics of Ling Gesar. གསུངས་བ་མིན་ནམ།

    གླིང་ཇོ་རུ་གླིང་ཚང་གི་ལུང་བ་ཞིག་ལ་འཁྲུངས་ཟེར་བ་ལ་སོགས་པ་ལོ་རྒྱུས་སུ་འཁྲུངས་ཡུལ་མི་འདྲ་བ་མང་ནའང་། སྒ་བཟའ་སེང་ལྕམ་འབྲུག་མོ་འམ་སྒ་སྐྱ་ལོའི་སེང་ལྕམ་འབྲུག་མོ་ཟེར་བ་ཁོང་གི་མནའ་མ་ནི་སྒ་ནས་ཡིན་པ་གྲགས།

    གང་ལྟར་འཇིགས་མེད་ལགས་ཀྱིས་འདིར་མཆན་བཏབ་པའི་ནང་ནས་གནས་ཚུལ་མི་ཉུང་བ་ཞིག་ཤེས་བྱུང་བས་ཁྱོད་ཁ་བྲོ། ཚེ་རིང་། ལོ་བརྒྱ། དགའ་ཤོག དེ་ཡང་ཁུལ་འདིའི་འཚམས་འདྲི་ཞུ་སྟངས་ཡིན་པ་གྲགས།

  138. འཇིགས་མེད། | May 20th, 2010 | 1:31 pm

    arihant ལགས། དོ་སྣང་གནང་བར་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ། ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ཟེར་བ་འདི་ལྡོང་ཤུལ་ཆེན་བཅོ་བརྒྱད་ཀྱི་ནང་ཚན་རེད། དེ་ཡང་དབལ་ཤུལ་དང་། སེར་ཤུལ། རྡོ་ཤུལ། ཉན་ཤུལ། རག་ཤུལ། ཡུལ་ཤུལ། དགེ་ཤུལ་སོགས་བཅོ་བརྒྱད་ཐམས་པ་བགྲང་རྒྱུ་ཡོད་པ་རེད།་བགྲང་ཚུལ་མི་མཐུན་པ་ཕྲན་བུ་ཡོད་ཀྱང་ལྡོང་ཤུལ་ཆེན་བཅོ་བརྒྱད་ཀྱི་བྱུང་རབས་ནི་ཆེས་རྙིང་པ་རེད། ཡིག་ཅ་ཁུངས་མ་རྣམས་སུའང་གང་མཚམས་གསལ་བ་རེད།
    གླིང་གེ་སར་ནི་དུས་རབས་བཅུ་གཉིས་པའི་སྟོད་ཙམ་དེར། ལྡན་ཁོག་ཏུ་འཁྲུངས། ཆུང་དུས་ཡུལ་གྱི་དཔོན་པོ་ཁྲོ་ཐུང་གི་རྨ་སྨད་གཡུ་ལུང་སུམ་མདོར་རྒྱང་ཕུད་བཏང། དེ་ནས་མདོ་སྨད་རྨ་རྒྱལ་སྤོམ་རའི་ཉེ་འགྲམ་དུ་འཚར་ལོངས་བྱུང་ཞིང་གླིང་ཁྲི་གོང་འོག་བར་གསུམ་དུ་དབང་བསྒྱུར་བྱས་པ་རེད། དེ་ལྟར་ན་གེ་སར་གྱིས་གཡུལ་འཁྲུགས་བྱས་པའི་ཤུལ་དུ་བྱས་ནས་ལོ་རྒྱུས་ཀྱི་བྱུང་རིམ་བྱས་ན་ཅུང་ཙམ་འཕྱིས་སོང་སྙམ་པ་ཡོད།
    ཚེ་རིང་། ལོ་བརྒྱ། ཁ་གཡང་འདི་དག་ངའི་རྣ་བར་ཅི་བས་སྙན། ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ།

  139. Arihant | May 22nd, 2010 | 4:53 pm

    འཇིགས་མེད་ལགས། ཁྱེད་རང་གིས་ལོ་རྒྱུས་ལ་གཞིགས་ནས་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་གྱི་མིང་བཏགས་དོན་གསུངས་པ་དེ་དག་པར་སྣང་། ངས་བཤད་པ་དེ་ངའི་འཆར་སྣང་ཙམ་ཞིག་ཡིན། ད་དུང་གསེར་ཤུལ་ཟེར་བ་ཞིག་ཀྱང་ཡུལ་ཤུལ་ནས་ཐག་མི་རིང་བའི་ས་ཆ་ཞིག་ཡོད་འདུག་པས་དེའི་མིང་གི་གོ་དོན་གང་ཡིན་པ་ཤེས་སམ།

  140. Arihant | May 22nd, 2010 | 4:56 pm

    ལྡན་ཁོག་ལ་མིང་འབྲི་ཚུལ་གཞན་ཡོད་དམ། ངས་གོ་བའི་ས་ཆ་ཞིག་གི་མིང་ལ་འདན་ཁོག་ཟེར་གྱི་འདུག
    དེ་གླིང་ཚང་གི་ཁོངས་གཏོགས་སུ་རེད་དམ།

  141. འཇིགས་མེད། | May 24th, 2010 | 1:11 pm

    arihantལགས། ༡༽གསེར་ཤུལ་མ་རེད་སེར་ཤུལ་རེད། སེར་ཤུལ་ཟེར་བ་དེ་སྒ་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་དང་ཧ་ཅང་གི་ཐག་ཉེ་བོ་རེད། འོན་ཀྱང་དེང་སང་ས་བགོས་བྱེད་སྟངས་ཀྱི་དབང་དུ་བྱས་ན་སི་ཁྲོན་གྱི་ཁོངས་སུ་ཡོད་པ་རེད། མངའ་སྡེའམ་ཞིང་ཆེན་ལོགས་ཀ་རེད། སྔར་ཞུས་པ་ལྟར་སེར་ཤུལ་ཟེར་བ་འདི་ནི་ལྡོང་ཤུལ་ཆེན་བཅོ་བརྒྱད་ཀྱི་ནང་ཚན་དང་། འབྲོག་སྡེ་ཤ་སྟག་རེད། བྱང་རྫ་ཆུ་འབབ་འགྲམ་དུ་ཆགས་ཡོད་པ་ཡིན། རྫ་ཆུ་འདི་ཆུ་བཞི་སྒང་དྲུག་ནང་གི་རྫ་ཆུ་དང་གཅིག་པ་མ་རེད།
    ༢༽ལྡན་ཁོག་ཟེར་བ་འདི་ལྡན་སྒྲོལ་མ་ལྷ་ཁང་གཙོ་བོ་གྱུར་པའི་ས་ཅ་ལ་ལྡན་ཁོག་ཏུ་གྲགས་ལ་འགའ་ཞིག་སྡེ་དགེ་གླིང་ཚང་གི་ཁོངས་སུ་གཏོགས།། ལྡན་མ་དང་འདན་མ་ཅི་རིགས་སུ་འབྲི་གོ་དོན་གཅིག་པ་ཡིན། འདན་མ་ཞེས་པ་ཁ་སྐད་དང་། ལྡན་མ་ཞེས་པ་ཡིག་སྐད་ཡིན་པ་རེད་བསམས། སྔ་མོའི་དུས་སུ་སྒ་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་འདི་འང་ལྡན་མའི་ཡུལ་རེད། ལྡན་མ་ལ་སྟོད་སྨད་གཉིས་སུ་བྱས་ནས་ལྡན་སྟོད་སྒ་ཡི་ཡུལ་ཞེས་གྲགས། སྒ་སྐྱེ་དགུ་མདོ་འདི་ལྡན་མ་སྟོད་ཀྱི་ཁོངས་སུ་བྱེད་དགོས། དེངས་སང་སྒ་པའི་ཡུལ་འདི་ལ་ལྡན་མ་འབོད་མཁན་ཉུང་ཉུང་ཡིན། འོན་ཀྱང་སྒ་པའི་ཡུལ་ནས་བྱོན་པའི་གདན་སའི་དགེ་འདུན་པ་རྣམས་ལ་ལྡན་མ་ཞེས་འབོད་པ་ཡིན་ཏེ། ལྡན་མ་བློ་ཆོས་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་བཞིན་ནོ།
    ལོ་བརྒྱ།

  142. Arihant | May 27th, 2010 | 10:27 am

    འཇིགས་མེད་ལགས།
    ལྡན་ཁོག་དང་འདན་ཁོག་གཉིས་འབྲི་ཚུལ་མི་འདྲ་བ་མ་གཏོགས་གཅིག་ཡིན་པར་གསལ་བཤད་གནང་བར་བཀྲིན་ཆེ་ཞུའོ།
    སེར་ཤུལ་ལ་གསེར་ཤུལ་འབྲི་སྲོལ་མེད་པ་འདྲ། ཁྱེད་རང་གིས་གསུངས་པའི་ལྡོང་རག་མ་རྒྱལ་མཚན་ཞེས་པ་འདི་དུས་རབས་གང་དུ་བྱོན་པ་གསལ་བཤད་ཨེ་ཐུབ། ཁ་བྲོ། ཚེ་རིང་།

  143. འཇིགས་མེད། | May 27th, 2010 | 2:41 pm

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