Lobsang Sangay and the Issue of Overseas Chinese Visas

 

Kalon Tripa candidate Lobsang Sangay, when answering a question about whether he had traveled to China on an Overseas Chinese (OC) visa, stated in his defense that I (Jamyang Norbu), and others, had also traveled to Tibet on such a document. I want to make it absolutely clear that I have never traveled to Tibet on such a Chinese document. In 1980 I  received an official invitation from Lhasa (via our TGIE Security Office, Desung Leykhung) to return to Tibet but I refused the offer point blank. I would have loved to visit Tibet but one of the reasons I did not was because I would have to travel on OC papers.

Lobsang Sangay  in his reply emphasized repeatedly that Overseas Chinese papers do not make you a Chinese national. That point, of course, needs no explanation at all. If you were a Chinese national then you would have a Chinese passport and would not need any kind of visa, even an OC visa, to visit China.

But although the Overseas Chinese visa does not make you a citizen of the PRC, it clearly makes you of Chinese birth or descent (or partial Chinese ancestry) living outside the  PRC, and resident or citizen of another country. I do not blame Tibetans, desperate to meet long lost relatives, traveling to Tibet on an OC visa, if that is all they can get at the moment.  But to travel to China, to Beijing, on an OC visa for something as unimportant as meeting some run-of-the mill Chinese academics (not “great scholars” khelwang) clearly demonstrates that the person has no problem being regarded as Chinese.

[audio:http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/6pm.mp3]

Here is the link to the audio file of Lobsang Sangay’s reply to the question.  http://bit.ly/fw1sdv

Comments

  1. Gonpo | February 17th, 2011 | 4:53 pm

    The middle path approach clearly incorporate Tibet is a part of China, so when our exile govt. has no problem embodying it, does it really matters if an individual travels on OC? Why dig another dirt when our govt. is at fault.

  2. Sharu Chigpa | February 17th, 2011 | 6:41 pm

    @Gonpo…It is not digging another dirt. Whatever the TGIE stand as a whole, a person like LS standing for KT should have ltleast this much credibility and integrity to not sacrifice his Tibetan nationality for such an unimportant meeting with as JN la calls run-of-the mill Chinese academicians who are not even scholars, by accepting himself as an overseas Chinese. I know people who have seriously ill relatives in Tibet but didn’t go to see them because they have to accept themselves as Chinese which they can’t stand. These are just common people not running for any office. But here is our Kalon Tripa candidate Lobsang Sangay who has no problem at all accepting himself as a Chinese to go to Beijing for such a silly thing as quoted above.

    With this, LS brings his Obama of China claim more into the context and I have no doubt that he feels happy to be called a Chinese. If LS becomes Katri, all the Tibetans Martyrs who died for Tibet fighting the Chinese will come back to life looking for him!

  3. jamyang choephel | February 17th, 2011 | 6:44 pm

    It is too early to say Dr.lobsang sangay is not
    a great scholar. it clearly reflect on up coming result.

  4. Tibetan | February 17th, 2011 | 7:13 pm

    You cannot solve a problem without integrating, in another words, We need people to go to China in what ever way they can, and observe what is going on inside Tibet. WE need to talk to Chinese people, leaders and so on, in order to find a solution for our struggle. How can you make plans, without having any idea of what is your oponent’s? So, my point in here is. Why not go to China if you can? What really matters is your intention, and action, not a piece of document! In fact, we Tibetans need to learn Chinese history, interact more with Chinese people ans observe what they are thinking?

  5. Daveno | February 17th, 2011 | 7:16 pm

    So,you have no problem with those Tibetan who went to meet their family members in Tibet,although those travel are PERSONAL.

    But you clearly have problem when Lobsang sansay travels on a business trip, that too after getting permission from Kashag and office HHDL. Kashag should have stopped him if it is an issue.

    Why too much dislike to Lobsang sangay la? Is that because he is a rising commoner that you cant suppress!!

  6. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | February 17th, 2011 | 7:25 pm

    This is not even the issue. Lobsang Sangay said Jamyang Norbu WENT TO TIBET on OCN visa WHICH HE DID NOT. He is running for Kalon Tripa and he says things without thinking, things which are easily verifiable and refutable. This is not the first time either. Jamyang la is simply putting the record straight.

  7. Sharu Chigpa | February 17th, 2011 | 8:03 pm

    And also there is no issue of rising commoner. After 1959, only the Chinese are the once crying this foul and I hope you are not a Chinese spy here Daveno. The question here is about LS lying and LS’s personal principle and integrity. When he is standing for the highest office of the TGIE, all Tibetans expect some honesty from him and not serial lies.
    This is not the first time, he has lied on many other occasions earlier and all his lies are spread all over the net. Daveno and the likes colluding with LS, you can fool some people some time but you cannot fool all the people all the time. BEWARE!!!

  8. Gonpo | February 17th, 2011 | 8:27 pm

    Sharu Chigpa la, at the time when LS went to China, he was not KT candidate, it happened six years ago. Every Tibetans knows that he was not running for KT post six years ago. JN said, he got an opportunity to visit Tibet in 1980 but he rejected the offer because of OC string attached to it. In 1980, I don’t think His Holiness was seeking meaningful autonomy and not independence for Tibet. After 25-30 years later, TGIE approach changed and we are what we are right now which is part of greater china. If we have a problem of coming to terms with this issue than we should voice our grievances to TGIE.

    Regarding LS visiting china on OC is another mudslinging tactic because it’s not like LS has multiple options to go to China and he choose the OC one, we all know it’s not like that. Besides, who are we to judge whether his visit to China was run-of-the-mill kind. I wish people stay away or rather above from petty stuff like this.

  9. Sharu Chigpa | February 17th, 2011 | 8:42 pm

    @Gonpo&Daveno (May be same person) When we talk about PRINCIPLE, length of time does not matter. When LS has accepted to be a Chinese national, it is done. It doesn’t matter whether it is 6 yrs back or 10 years back.

    Another point is about his lies. He has lied that JN has gone to Tibet which is not the case. He has also earlier in Minnesota said that Prof. Roberto Unger of Harvard has gone on 5 yrs leave from Harvard to be a minister In Brazil. But the fact of the matter is that Prof. Unger returned after 2 years when Harvard refused extension of his leave. Here is Wikipedia link of the truth:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Unger

    And here is the Minnesota talk where he lied.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWrE6U_poQ

    Can any LS supporters justify these lies caught red handed!!!

  10. tdeed | February 17th, 2011 | 9:37 pm

    Gonpo, LS was not kalon Tripa six years back,but Six years back oc traveler is now fighting for KT and it matters.
    Bejing may twist it for worst political game,
    base on his controversial visit. its small matter but good tools for Bejing.
    Ombama Of china was his joke, boston’s fake support is lie, Tibet tour with JN is liar. lithang pary talk is partition. still more will…

  11. daveno | February 17th, 2011 | 9:43 pm

    Sharu nyingpa,
    Where are you at the level to Kudrak, at 8? You are dancing to JN Rangzen-melody.
    I will not have any objection if you call me ‘to-be’ Chinese.You are also a to-be chinese when you are part of middle way. So why these fuss on being chinese.

    Tendar,Have you listened to the audio or just saying because JN wrote it. Before pointing fingers and accusing someone of LYING we need the check the facts. Lobsang sangay has CLEARLY THROWN A QUALIFIER “If i am not mistaken and i dont remember correctly or could not recollect my memory”. These indicates that he is not sure about the matter related to KUTSAP NEGOTIATION TEAM AND JN & LHASANG TSERING .NOW JN SAID HE DID NOT WENT TO TIBET,SO BE IT.As we have no way to verify JN 24 hours whereabouts. These are the ‘not so’ important part of the conversation when the question and his answer relates to BEING A CHINESE.

    By the way,What troubles me is the girl who asked that question does not seems a tibetan by the way she speaks in phoekay. CHOERANG, CHOERANG…as if phoepay yarap choesang was lost along in the becoming of a US citizen or a Lhasa chinese speaking bhoekay.

  12. Youth! | February 17th, 2011 | 9:52 pm

    DAVENO>>>LS lied, YOU did not listen to the audio. I asked the question. JN said he did not travel on OC LS clearly said it and u can hear the audio where he says that JN did travel to Tibet w/ a “white paper” OC. So before you accuse others of not listening. Maybe its time you take your own advice, listen to the audio first.

  13. daveno | February 17th, 2011 | 10:04 pm

    I will repost what i wrote there. YOu have A.D.D. and needs to learn how to speak proper tibetan with little sheysaa here and there.It does not hurt.

    “Lobsang sangay has CLEARLY THROWN A QUALIFIER “If i am not mistaken and i dont remember correctly or could not recollect my memory”. These indicates that he is not sure about the matter related to KUTSAP NEGOTIATION TEAM AND JN & LHASANG TSERING.”

  14. tenzin | February 17th, 2011 | 10:50 pm

    Lobsang Sangay is misleading public in his talks to people of going to China with Overseas Chinese visa.

    He not only attacked a person raising question by saying that that person is a supporter of the Tenzin Tethong and labelled the person as “stubborn.”

    China allowed the Tibetan delegates visits to Tibet & China on I.C. Later when China demanded that they travelled on Chinese visa, the negotiation got cancelled over the issues.

    No Tibetans officials is known or reported to have acknowledge China’s overlordship.

    No doubt Tibetans are negotiating for Genuine Autonomy, which is still in negotiating stage and no arrangements have reached, thus no acknowledgment has been made of Tibet as a part of China.

    Tibetans agreed to be part of China only if China agrees to meet the terms of Genuine Autonomy, not otherwise… so don’t mixed the two things. Aspiring for something is different from owning something.

    Lobsang Sangay, with all his LEGAL degree, gave China the weapon that … TIBET’S PRIME MINISTERIAL CANDIDATE ACKNOWLEDGED TO BE AN “OVERSEAS CHINESE.”

    TIBETANS ARE NOT CHINESE… OUR PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS GAVE THIER LIFE FOR TIBET….

    ALSO LISTEN TO RINPOCHE’S REPLY TO LS’ Tibet visit——- Rinpoche la merely acknowledge that LS reported to the Exile government of his intented visit. It has nothing to do with what documents he travelled… [don’t drag man with reputations to cover your lies and mistakes]

    HE WAS NEITHER TIBETAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS NOR AN AFFILIATES, anyone would say, that is very good, it would be helpful [when LS glorifies and exaggerate by saying meetings SCHOLARS FROM MAINLAND CHINA AND building cooperations].

    LS says he wrote to Tibet government seeking advice on what to do next after his studies. As per the rule of the High Level Scholarship Committee, you report back to Department of Education and moves from there. No one seeks an advice of what to do next…. [ANOTHER LIE— HE IS ENSNARE IN HIS OWN WEB OF LIES]

    DON’T GET CARRIED BY TALKS, CHECK THE FACTS…. HE IS JUST SCARY. HE WILL SELL TIBET WITH A SMILE ON HIS FACE AND SWEET WORDS.

    I CANNOT TRUST TIBET ISSUE IN HIS HAND.

    He should remain as an activist not a PRIME MINISTER, never…

  15. dokpo serpo | February 17th, 2011 | 10:57 pm

    Whatever we’re debating here is being seen and followed by the communist uncles in Beijing. They are either happy to see us debating on many levels of petty issues or are jealous of what we’re enjoying about the freedom of speech in a free world.

  16. Gonpo | February 17th, 2011 | 11:07 pm

    To all those who wrote to me, as recent as last month President Obama reiterated that Tibet is a part of China and those of you who are US citizen, I bet most of the people’s naturalization certifate says “China” as your country of origin especially true to those who are aslyee. So the point is what option do we have, even here in America of not tagging china somewhere in our legal documents. So what is the fuss about whether we are Chinese birth or descent when our legal documents says we are.

  17. Sharu Chigpa | February 17th, 2011 | 11:31 pm

    @Daveno&Gonpo,
    What do you say about LS’s naked lies in the Minnesota video and the truth about Prof. Unger? Say something!!!

  18. kalsang | February 17th, 2011 | 11:47 pm

    Is LSla really a ‘khewang’ with a paltry oeuvre that underwhelms me ( I am not going to speak for anyone else). More and more, the other two candidates are looking better to me with their vast experience, dedicated service and proven track record – and I am still undecided and not a partisan for anyone. I projected back 15 to 20 years, when TNTla and TWla were LSla’s current age – and they were Kalons already with over 20 years of service to our TGIE. And, as for JNla ( a real Khewang, in my opinion), even 20 years ago he had published more than most Phds in their lifetime.

  19. Dawa | February 17th, 2011 | 11:54 pm

    Here is a write up of the Q&A at Sarah 2/14/11 and the next day in Mcleod 2/15/11:

    Lobsang Sangay came to Sara Institute for Higher Tibetan Studies on 2/14/11, to give the students and staff an opportunity to hear him speak and interact. After his speech I got the opportunity to ask him a few questions.

    My question, “As you may already know, when the 5th delegation to China was told by PRC that they needed to acknowledged themselves as “Overseas Chinese National” (OCN) before entering China, the incident became problematic and controversial (they refused to acknowledge themselves as OCN and did not go to China). In 2005, you went to China. Did you enter China admitting and acknowledging you are an OCN?”

    LS said he had talked to Sonam Dagpo la (part of the later delegation, not the 5th) and he had not heard any issues regarding the 5th delegation and OCN. This was surprising, since almost everyone who’s been following delegation news since the 1st, know that there indeed was this issue. He said he had gotten permission from the Kashang and KT, although Kashag recently came out with a statement that LS had indeed contacted them before going to China and they had thought it was a good idea but they did not explicitly give him any specific official “permission”. Kashag has no decision making power regarding official visits to China, only HH and his office has authorization. Regarding the visit, he didn’t answer whether he had to acknowledge himself as an OCN before entering China. Instead he said he was given a white piece of paper which was needed to enter China and after returning, you could simply throw it away.

    Luckily I was able to get another chance to ask a question based on the previous question. I explained that in the “white piece of paper” he spoke of, had the requirement for acknowledging oneself as an OCN and whether he had agreed to acknowledge himself as an OCN when entering China?

    He condescendingly remarks “she’s very persistent” in between a laugh, I return “because we are both from Boston” and repeated that he received permission from Kashag and would not answer the specific question. So I asked again “Did you or did you not enter China acknowledging yourself as an OCN written on the white paper”. He finally said “YES” and added that the other delegation members with IC’s also maybe entered China on the same “white paper” during “Dialogue”. He also went on to say that Tibetans in India often go on that same white paper when visiting family inside Tibet. I added “you would become the first KT and TGIE official to have acknowledged yourself as an OCN if elected”. He ignored that statement and went on to highlight the important work he did while in China and not receiving an opportunity to go to Tibet because he “is too forward. He also added sarcastically, “I have been living in the US for 15yrs and I could have also gotten myself a citizenship but unlike ‘some’ I held on to my IC, maybe I should have been more selfish, maybe I am more Patriotic [then them]”. He was then busy answering someone else question when he stopped and quickly asked “Dawa la, did you know TNT also went to China in the 80s?” I replied “Yes, as the second delegation to hold talks with China.” He chose to drop that subject and went back to answering the other person’s question.

    After his lecture was over, outside he approached me and sarcastically remarked if I was satisfied. I said “yen da yen” (ofcourse) and he remarked “you’re not going to put all this on FB are you” and I replied “of course”, all between laughs while other students outside watched on. He then laughingly remarks “did you guys know she is a TNT supporter?” to the other students.

    Yesterday (2/15/11), I got another opportunity to hear him speak, but at TCV day-school in Mcleod. I asked “yesterday you admitted to going to China in 2005 while acknowledging yourself as an OCN, you also stated the IC holders of the current and past delegation members for HH to China may have also carried the same white paper when they went to China for dialogue (shouldn’t he know this? he wrote a dissertation on the TGIE for 6yrs). That is actually wrong there has been no case of delegation members acknowledging themselves as OCN. If you were to be elected KT you would become the first KT and first TGIE official to have gone to China acknowledging you are an OCN. My question is, how would China view that fact and if this comes back to cause us trouble, how would you handle the problem?

    His answer began by telling the already over-enthused crowed for LS that “Dawa La is a TNT supporter, she is so ‘outsu-tsapo’ (persistant), she keeps asking me the same question since yesterday” condescendingly. He explains how he received permission from KT and Kashag, says the delegation members thus far has probably gone on the same white paper, again. Then goes on to say I am accusing him of becoming a Chinese citizen while in China. He goes on to explains in brief on how one has to obtain a green-card in order to appeal for citizenship in the US and how the process takes time and insinuates how that would be required if he were to actually become a Chinese citizen and that is however not the case, nor was it possible.

    The problem with that reply is, I did not ask him if he became a “Chinese citizen while in China” I asked if he acknowledged he is an OCN when entering China in 2005 (a requirement to enter). Also he did not even attempt at answering whether CCP would look at this as an opportunity to cause trouble in the future if he were to become the next KT. Even if he threw away the white piece of paper that requires he acknowledge himself as an OCN when he came back from China, the Chinese government do in fact have a record of it and will in fact use that information if and when they can.

    I found his condescending demeanour, his lack of patience and tolerance in being asked a challenging and tough question not only not professional but revealing. This will be the personality that will be filling the seat of KT if he wins and this is a reflection of how he will handle tough situations. The KT position is not isolated, he will have to work with the governing body that is TGIE and he will need patience, tolerance and professionalism especially, among other qualities, in dealing with tough situations. My question was a valid question and I felt it was an opportunity for him to clear the air ones and for all regarding his visit to China as an OCN in 2005. He could have chosen to handle this professionally while using this as a platform to clear any doubts we might have if and when this OCN comes back to haunt us if and when he wins KT. Instead, he chose to use this platform to make personal attacks through condescending jokes designed at me and indirectly at TNT and that is revealing of the type of leader he will be.

  20. Sharu Chigpa | February 18th, 2011 | 12:19 am

    Thank you very much Dawa la for this very detailed info. You have a valid point when you said LS’s admission as an Overseas Chinese National will definitely cause great danger to our cause if he becomes Kalon Tripa. This is starting to worry me more than all his lies added together. This issue of OCN will be the single most dangerous issue surrounding LS. How can we Tibetans have a Kalon Tripa who has gone to China as recently as 2005 openly accepting as an Overseas Chinese National. We cannot accept even a junior level Tibetan officer at Gangkyi if he has accepted as an OCN and how will it be a possibility for us to have a Chinese Kalon Tripa. LS should be treated as a traitor. This is the hottest issue and every Tibetan should discuss thoroughly about this. Oh my god….how can we Tibetans have a Chinese Katri????????

  21. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 12:19 am

    According to CCP’s overseas-Chinese-compatriot logic, even Vietnamese and Koreans also fall under this category. The long arm of the Chinese empire!

    The CCP department that conducts negotiations with the exile Tibetan leadership is the so-called United Front Work Department, whose responsibility is to ‘reach out to overseas Chinese compatriots and influential non-CCP members.’

    The implication is that all Tibetans are part of the ‘big family of Chinese motherland.’ In other words, Tibet has never existed as an independent nation.

    Between dictatorships and democracy, there is either surrender or resistance.

  22. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 12:34 am

    To me traveling to China on American passport and traveling to China on IC with ‘OCA’ visa status are two sides of the same coin.

  23. Sharu Chigpa | February 18th, 2011 | 12:37 am

    @TN…leave aside the koreans and the vietnamese, lets focus on our own business and the issue in hand i.e our Katri candidate Lobsang Sangay accepting openly as a Chinese!
    Can you accept a Chinese as out Kalon Tripa???

  24. Sharu Chigpa | February 18th, 2011 | 12:39 am

    Can we as Tibetans stoop so low as to accept a Chinese as our Kalon Tripa ??? No way!

  25. newgenerationTB | February 18th, 2011 | 12:40 am

    It is not only LS who travelled China, but also our delegates and envoys, including Tenzin Namgyal Tethong traveled to Tibet and CHina…..on what paper did they travel?Did JN have been sleeping on this issues?

    LS’s meeting should not be dismissed as JN’s cheap shots, “to meet some run-of-the mill Chinese academics “, it should be honestly viewed in the context of and in the spirit of “middle way policy” whether you love it dispise it.

    Regarding a Tibetan as Chinese national or not, it is a very complicated issue, those who born in another country, they are either an unrecongnized, stateless refugees who are actively seeking a citizenship or those are born with a citizenship of another country. Similarly, those Tibetans who are in Tibet, at least on papers, historical context and time period of birth, are technically Chinese of Tibetan national. As someone already pointed out above, almost 99% of Tibetans who seek asylum in the US or else where lie about their actual birth in Tibet (as a matter of fact not….somewhere in India, Nepal, or Bhutan!), they declare they are born in Tibet!nHilarious…. At end of the process and when asylum is granted, the invidual is documented as “citizen” of PRC. These are open secret and there is nothing surprising about these issues.

  26. Sharu Chigpa | February 18th, 2011 | 12:53 am

    @Newgen…There is a million miles of difference between a Tibetan willingly agreeing to accept himself as a Chinese like Lobsang Sangay and other helpless poor Tibetans with no choice. LS went to China as a proud Chinese and accomplished nothing for Tibet or Tibetan people.
    We Tibetans cannot have a Chinese Kalon Tripa and that is the roaring voice of 6 million Tibetans whether you like it or not!!!

  27. Dawa | February 18th, 2011 | 12:58 am

    UPDATE:

    Delegation:

    I asked Sonam Dagpo la (through his daughter) if the delegation go on the OCN as insinuated by LS. He clearly stated “NO”. Also the last delegation did not have any IC holders, they were citizens of US, Swiss and Australia.

    Permission from Kashag:

    He received a “verbal” ok. IC holders are subject to go through the proper channels and documents set up by the Donjoe office as set up by TGIE before going off to the Chinese embassy for the “OCN White book”. LS did not go through those channels.

    Holding on to IC cuz he’s “more patriotic” then those in the west with citizenship:

    He has VISA O (before that Student visa). He qualified for it in 2005. After few years he can qualify for green card (by 2007-8) and few more years later citizenship (2010-11). He started campaigning 2007. If he were to consider himself for citizenship, it would have taken him till 2010-2011 to become an actual US citizen. So the fact is, he did not have an option and by the time that option arose he had already decided to run for KT. Having an IC he can brag he “choose” to not become a US citizen because he’s less selfish and “more patriotic”.

  28. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 1:18 am

    @Sharu Chigpa,

    You didn’t get my point, sir. I said American passport or a piece of paper that insinuates one as an ‘overseas Chinese’ are same to me. Both are not Tibetan passports. At least the OCA (piece of paper) can be torn apart and thrown in the dustbin, as LS did when he reached Beijing airport.

    I wonder what kind of paper you are holding: RC/US passport/German/French?

  29. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 1:20 am

    @NGT, nice points. I like it man. Honesty. No intrigues.

  30. Agu Tonpa | February 18th, 2011 | 2:14 am

    Jamyang la,
    This is totally outrageous. Is he going nuts? He has been lying all these times and with the advent of modern technology all these lies and fabrications are coming out of LS’ closet. Boston Tibetan Community’s letter has correctly said, “Lies may take care of the present, but has no future.”

    Let me tell you the difference:

    TGIE delegation including Tethong travelled to China representing Tibetan as a separate govt. and separate people. They didn’t go their to organize conference or to party. They went there to negotiate a mutually beneficial solution considering the fact that Tibetans are different and has a long standing independent historical facts. They have never agreed to their condition as the OVerseas chinese.

    Lobsang Sangay’s visit is totally different. His is a personal one and he went to CHina as Overseas Chinese. The question was are you comfortable being called as overseas chinese? I hate those chinese when they call me, “so you are chinese” when i said, i am a Tibetan. I would never succumbed to such chinese arrogance and stubbornness Although i wanted to go China.
    According to his reply to the questions from TPR members, his two fold objective was unsuccessful. So in the end, LS objective of visit to China was not fulfilled, and he became Overseas CHinese. Perhaps, Chinese Yuan may be falling like a rain. hahaha.It just reminded me of that old saying, Chinese are like Kind parents, silver coins falling like rain.

    Anyway People, Enlightened yourself. Is LS deserve to be our Katri? Don’t you wanna have a leader who has backbone, integrity and vision and not an opportunist who say anything when there are some benefits for yourself while neglecting our nation’s priority? LS has made so much mistakes in his campaign trail. Obviously, he has to learn so much and he is nowhere near being called scholar but rather a Naive politician who is always trying to fool the tibetan public.

    But, you can’t fool our Tibetan people who’ll never accept the OVerseas Chinese Visa, especially when there are Jamyang norbu and Agu Tonpa.

    Bho Gyalo,

    Yours AGU.

  31. newgenerationTB | February 18th, 2011 | 2:28 am

    @Sharug……HHDL openly declared that he is ready to accept Chinese citizenship provided Beijing Government is serious about talk on Autonomy….can you tolerate a Dalai Lama of a Chinese citizen? Dalai Lama has a history of more than 360 years, katri….just last two decades……Also, when HHDL was born, it was not in the areas governed by Tibetan Government, rather in a place ruled by Chinese muslim overload whose allegiance is to the Chinese Nationalist government….thus by birth, HHDL was a Tibetan national of Chinese citizenship even before recognized as the Dalai Lama, can you digest this fact? After decades of struggle, TGIE gained nothing from the west, nothing from diehard rangzen warriors, nothing from Chinese government, and will happen nothing from anyone in the future as well. Therefore, the urgent and final task is, take the truthful issue of Tibet based on reason to the Chinese public, this is done through Chinese scholars, academicians, writers, artists, poeple of conscience, and so forth. You have to place LS’s travel importance in the context of this larger policy context. You cannot just dismiss him simply because you despise him for whatever reasons.

    @Dawa: If our delegations traveled on foreign passports, then that is the most stupid diplomacy that Dharamsala conducted. The reason we are talking and dialoguing with Chinese government is, we are Tibetan delegate, not foreign delegates. I think your argument has some loopholes. Please come back with concrete how did delegates including TNT traveled to China? You cannot leave the fact aside and babbling on something else. Evenif LS did not get a chance to apply for citizenship or GREEN CARD, he is a better Tibetan at least he has an IC….lol of US writing here, including JN and TNT are US citizens…..do they really have authority to comment on someone who at least has IC?

  32. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 2:31 am

    I think Agu might one day pick up a gun and sneak into Tibet and kill some CCP leaders!

    And then we will celebrate your matyrdom!

  33. newgenerationTB | February 18th, 2011 | 2:37 am

    @agu: I like your phrase: ” Perhaps, Chinese Yuan may be falling like a rain. hahaha.It just reminded me of that old saying, Chinese are like Kind parents, silver coins falling like rain.”, Just replace the phrase “Chinese yuan” with “Dayang”. It is even better ask Jamyang Norbu and TNT, because our kudras were fed with Dayang by the Communist when they first arrived and bought all the upper class forlks who were on top of the food chain. I think JN can shed more light in this regard.

    NG

  34. Dawa | February 18th, 2011 | 3:19 am

    New Generation:

    His holiness including the delegation and the TGIE said they are ready to accept Chinese citizenship WHEN China agree’s to autonomy. THAT my friend is the bargain. It would make no sense to accept yourself as a Chinese to hold talks about becoming Chinese if Autonomy is granted.

  35. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 3:24 am

    Good Job again, Newgeneration. You hit the nail right on the head, as we say here in the US. Oh, by the way I am still on IC. Might get a green card one day. Or might not.

  36. Rewalsar | February 18th, 2011 | 7:16 am

    An interesting issue. Yes, I believe that Jamyang Norbu would hate to see people calling him anything else than “Tibetan”. When the question of his nationality comes, then of course it is “Tibet” and only “Tibet”.

    I did not know there is something called OC Visa, but I know that there is one called “Travel Document” for the overseas Chinese, including Tibetans, Taiwanese and alike. This document clearly says that the holder “is a Chinese citizen”, and many exiled Tibetans visit Tibet and China on this document. They do so, because they do not have a proper passport (ie. they have not adopted any citizenship and are stateless). So for them there is no choice.

    For those who have proper citizenship and are holding proper passports, the normal visas are available. They can visit Tibet and China the way any foreigners do. So no need to go for OC Visa or the Travel Document.

    If Lobsang Sangye holds (or then held) the yellow book, then he has (or had)little choice. If his visit was something good for the Tibet Issue, then I think it is OK.

    According to Buddhism, Murder is no sin if its purpose is to protect Buddhism.

    Patriots do not have to be always conservative.

  37. Bhoepa | February 18th, 2011 | 8:10 am

    Dawa la and all other non supporter of Lobsang Sangye lak including Jamyang Norbu lak.

    As Tibetan have a bad habits of digging others mistake instead of correcting one’s own mistake. Lobsang Sangye is true that you (Dawa) are really persistent coz you chased him from Sarah to Mclod Ganj. Anyway whether he went to China with OC visa or not, he went their for meetings with Chinese Scholar and Teachers. It’s good though he is trying to familiarize with Chinese people and sharing his views on Tibet issue with them. That’s really wonderful job. As I heard that you (Dawa) are American citizen and doing nothing fruitful like Lobsang Sangye. First you should try to make your self to stand properly on your small foots and then shout to others OK???? You still have long way to go and it’s bit early for you guys to shout now.hahah

    Well, even you are supporters of TNT or whoever, do not try to criticise and disdain to others like you tried to do with Lobsang Sangye.

    Good luck

  38. tashi | February 18th, 2011 | 9:28 am

    this is a request to all Lobsang Sangay’s folks;
    we have been sticking Tethong la’s posters at Majnukatila(MT) for Tethong la’s visit on 20thfeb at bodhvihar and 21stfeb at MT, But the very next day after sticking poster, LS workers in MT torn apart most of the TNT posters and sketched improper drawings or words on remainings, there is hardly any poster left untouched. therefore If there is anything in ur power thn plz stop such immature and anti-democratic act.

    Regarding above topic and other controversial topics, and discerning all the available resources, i believe the matters are pretty much clear to public. Now we have to leave on to peoples to vote and decide. obstructing competitor’s campaign and telling lies to peoples are unfair tactics and unhealthy competition.

  39. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 18th, 2011 | 9:39 am

    Dawa, excellent job. Keep it up.

    As unsettling is the fact that we might soon have a OCN as Kalon Tripa, I am more concerned of the fact that LS can tell a lie so effortlessly.

  40. newgenerationTB | February 18th, 2011 | 11:37 am

    @DAWA: Again, the fundamental failed policy of TGIE and failed struggle of Tibetans in exile is achieving nothing over the half a century. At times, making enemies of common Chinese people. I think failure is realized deeply and TGIE is serious about reconnecting with everyday Chinese through whatever means, even if it is through Tibetan Buddhism. This will hugely help in exposing CCP’s doctored version of Tibet’s history and stance of TGIE. China is in the midst of great transformation, such initiative is greatly appreciated whoever did it. After realizing the true nature and policy of HHDL by Chinese people, TGIE hopes that CHinese government will change its policy regarding Tibet and thus have a meaningful dialogue and solve the Tibet China love-hate affair forever through public pressure. We have noticed Chinese Government’s change of tactics and even domestic policy due to public outcry and pressure through internet.

    If we are serious about gaining the mass support of Chinese people, then an orginary Tibetan must has to play the game and take the game to China instead of playing in india for self-gratification or writing some emotional and sensational articles online. We have to realize our delegations and envoys traveled to China, only talking to the same people who wanted to imprison 1.3 billion in the darkness of a closed system. They were never given any chances to interact with everyday folks. It is like preprogramed. However, LS travelled there and took the case to a Chinese university and interacted with Chinese academicians and students. This is the thing we need, someone who is able to take the case to China, not to the UN, US, INDIA, EUROPE, not online fighting….all are kinda bullshit! It is percisely the above reasoning, TGIE and Private Office ok-ied to LS to go ahead. You cannot paint a picture of LS as an opportunist and yourself trying to be more patriotic. Dawa la is a diehard fan of TNT, you guys promoted TNT as head of delegation to Tibet in 1982, what was his achievement through that delegation? To enjoy a Tibet scene when everyday Tibetans just able to come out of that crazy cultural revolution. Dawa la, you even did not respond what HHDL’s actual birth citizenship which I raised above! Remember, 2/3rd of the landmass was not politically under Tibetan Government, or Bhod Shung Ganden Podrang, which means people are not Tibetan citizen, but a group of people who shares cultural heritage. Your argument is also very problematic in the future as well, it wil obstruct any Tibetans born and educated in China from becoming a katri. Even the person is a true Tibetan by all accounts, even marriage. For you guys TNT’s spouse is not a big deal even though you guys raised the same issue before against LS, when lies fell apart, you guys are silent. Now when ask of your candidate, you tend to trialize the issue and trying to be non-racist of the American ideal. Come on…girl…we know us best! Don’t play double game, be simple, plain and reasonable. Don’t to be too American when it fits ya agenda….

    If China needs transformation, it is the Chinese people. If Tibet’s situation needs to be solved amicably, it is the Chinese people. There is no other way for it. So, We need people like LS take that case and exploring this unexplored political territory. JN and your sensationalizationg of LS’s travel is very malicious and does not serve any purposes. In the same way, JN and you have at least American resident or passport, LS does not have it. He is not living in two world simultaneuosly as you guys do. Be realistic, but not sensational! Remember, majority of Tibetans are still unrecognized refugees, these unfortunate folks need a home to call home, I think it is Tibet. So, the problem needs to be solved. We don’t need pseudo academicains and scholars keeping Tibet in political argument forever, we need pragmatic people is willing to take steps to solve it. We need all these unfortunate people, who are not born for a US resident or citizenship, have a home and be fortunate.

    NG

  41. newgenerationTB | February 18th, 2011 | 12:12 pm

    Dear Jamyang NOrbu, Dawa la, and all TNT supporters,
    What is your including your spouse and kids country of origin on your US document or foreign countries? Is it Tibet or India or PRC?

    Regards
    NG

    Note:This is a straight forward question, not expecting a convoluted answer….simply put the name of COUNTRY OF ORIGIN!

  42. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | February 18th, 2011 | 12:51 pm

    Daveno: Did you even listen to Dawa la’s question? Remember this is the second day at Dhasa after he has already insinuated that delegations might have traveled in similar circumstances in the past the day before at Sarah. Dawa confirmed it was not the case and clearly stated that in the question if you have been listening:

    “I got another opportunity to hear him speak, but at TCV day-school in Mcleod. I asked “yesterday you admitted to going to China in 2005 while acknowledging yourself as an OCN, you also stated the IC holders of the current and past delegation members for HH to China may have also carried the same white paper when they went to China for dialogue (shouldn’t he know this? he wrote a dissertation on the TGIE for 6yrs). That is actually wrong there has been no case of delegation members acknowledging themselves as OCN. If you were to be elected KT you would become the first KT and first TGIE official to have gone to China acknowledging you are an OCN. My question is, how would China view that fact and if this comes back to cause us trouble, how would you handle the problem?”

    Why did he even mentioning Jamyang Norbu and Lhasang Tsering’s names at all if you are not sure? Were they part of a delegation we don’t know about? I thought the basis of his claims that he can run TGIE without having even one day work experience in it was the fact that he had spend 6 years thoroughly researching it and he knows it inside out. The fact finding delegation forms a critical part of that research as on-going dialogue with China. Now, he claims he doesn’t know? If the 5th delegation made such a fuss about it and the dialogue broke down before it even started due to this very issue should be a strong indicator, don’t you think? Either he is deliberately lying or he is a very poor scholar – neither bodes well for Tibet.

    Moreover, Dawa clearly stated that she found out his previous claims delegations might have gone on same visa is FALSE and they did not do so. So, why is he still repeating it again? Very comprehension skills or deliberate attempt to deflect Dawa’s strong argument – again, something that doesn’t bode well for Tibet.

  43. Tenzin Nyinjey | February 18th, 2011 | 2:17 pm

    NewgenerationTb, you make more sense, arguing from a practical, humanistic approach – the fact that every one needs a home and security – be it in Tibet in ‘association’ with China or US and the West.

    Lobsang Sangay la has made a factual error by saying JN and Lhasang traveled to Tibet on OC papers. My assumption is that he was confused, because many Tibetan scholars outside Tibet do travel to China; so he thought JN and Lhasang were part of them too. That was a factual error.

    What I don’t like about LS detractors is that they are basically trying to ‘prove’ LS as a ‘traitor,’ who gives up the Tibetan struggle – a Chinese mole in brief, and themselves as staunch patriots, who have Tibet’s interest at their hearts.

    Such negative tactics can be called as ‘rigging of elections, Tibetan style.’

  44. Kalsang Wangdu | February 18th, 2011 | 2:33 pm

    Details of LS travel to China has been kept secret till now, and when exposed, he dragged JN and other people to exonerate himself. I do not think he made a big mistake by traveling to China on OC (given the fact that he informed TGIE), but he should have put the record straight by resorting to truthful explanation.
    As a Kalon Tripa candidate, he should refrain from talking without thinking (gang-jung mang-jung)….

  45. Sharu Chigpa | February 18th, 2011 | 2:55 pm

    @TN… As easily concluding as factual error! LS will have to defend all the lies that he has accumulated over the months of his campaign. He may have got away with his lies in some poor far-flung settlements but not everywhere. He has also told a naked lie about his Harvard leave. He dragged the name of a very respected Harvard professor and told lie about him. Can you also call this a factual error? If you the supporters of LS are not ashamed please watch this video of Minnesota where LS told the naked lie and also the Wikipedia fact about Prof. Unger having returned to Harvard after 2 years. What a shame….

    Minnesota video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWrE6U_poQ

    And Wikipedia fact:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Unger

    Can also Daveno and Gonpo share your view about this?

    LS seems to be terminally ill with lying disorder and also very minimally informed about TGIE both of which can cause great danger to the post of Kalon Tripa.

  46. Dolma | February 18th, 2011 | 3:11 pm

    Dear Jamyang La,
    Is this some kind of yours newly found hobby to make a fuss out of nothing? I see as a great pity and unfortunate that a person like you who possesed a skill in writing degrades in this manner. I used to think that you were not only a great writer but also a great “Thinker”. Now yours writing has lost its thinking potential. Infact day by day it is becoming more like useless gossip and scandal rubbish.
    Or is it an early symptom of Writer’s block?

  47. daveno | February 18th, 2011 | 5:05 pm

    He is the reason why we are having this discussion and the spirit of democratic forces are alive..ONLY BECAUSE OF HIM-Lobsang sangay la.

    If the Katri candidate were just TNT,TW and some other oldie…there will not be this HANGAMA AND TURTSAR TSONGDHUE.

    JAMYANG NORBU LA, you should better change your name now to jamyang nouibuoo.You are part of MIDDLE WAY.You are smart and could think a head of time..he he .oppps you are a citizen of US.

    Then stop INTERFEERING in our INTERNAL AFFAIR OF TIBET NATIONAL.This applies to DAWA,KALSONG PHUNTOSK,TENDAR,SHRUE NGYANSHOR.

  48. Tsewang | February 18th, 2011 | 5:26 pm

    Dawa la, highly impressed with your bold approach towards LS. I would love to see you taking part in the Tibetan Govt. in Exile in the future. I’m sure you would kick some serious ass.
    Just need to brush up on your Tibetan ‘shaysa’. I don’t care if you didn’t use any “shaysa” when addressing LS, he doesn’t deserve it anyway.

  49. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 18th, 2011 | 5:41 pm

    Davenobrain,

    May be your ability to sling mud indiscriminately is because of Lobsang Sangay, but my right to criticize and debate is because of the fact that I was born a human (with a brain). I don’t need anybody’s permission to exercise my natural right.

  50. daveno | February 18th, 2011 | 6:09 pm

    KP, I can see your huge brain behind the thick glasses. Who stole your right mr.brainy…”i am neutral- not decided type of brain”…who are u kidding Mr brainy?.
    Dont live in the state of denial mr.brainy…running after rangzen that was once SOLD by kudrak.

    Why am i wasting my time with Brainy manipulative deceptive tsokpa living in the state of denial.

  51. average tenzin | February 19th, 2011 | 6:57 pm

    I wanted a change in Tibetan politics and was interested in LS back in the summer of 2010, but since then, a lot of the lustre and Dal and rice eating commoner image has started to wear thin. I am not voting for someone just because they got a lot of Indian lentils in their diet. The more I got to see and hear him, the more it seems that he will do anything, sell anyone, and use every means to get elected. The problem is that he is concentrating more on getting elected than on saying why he should be the KT.
    Droong dha bhe kyon.

  52. Sharu Chigpa | February 19th, 2011 | 10:43 pm

    @TN… As easily concluding as factual error! LS will have to defend all the lies that he has accumulated over the months of his campaign. He may have got away with his lies in some poor far-flung settlements but not everywhere. He has also told a naked lie about his Harvard leave. He dragged the name of a very respected Harvard professor and told lie about him. Can you also call this a factual error? If you the supporters of LS are not ashamed please watch this video of Minnesota where LS told the naked lie and also the Wikipedia fact about Prof. Unger having returned to Harvard after 2 years. What a shame….

    Minnesota video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKWrE6U_poQ

    And Wikipedia fact:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Unger

    Can also Daveno and Gonpo share your view about this?

    LS seems to be terminally ill with lying disorder and also very minimally informed about TGIE both of which can cause great danger to the post of Kalon Tripa.

  53. tamding kyap | February 20th, 2011 | 12:54 am

    A MAN BEHIND THE CLOUD SHOULD APPEARED ON THIS PRESENT SITUATION OF TIBETAN IN EXILE…..I STRONGLY WANT REQUEST TO ALL THE TIBETAN PEOPLE THAT KALON TRIPA SHOULD BE LOBSANG SANGYAL LAK..!
    A MAN OF CHANGE IN THE EXILE …!!

  54. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 20th, 2011 | 9:49 am

    Daveno,

    I thought of posting a reply, but then realized since you won’t be wasting your time with us any more, what’s the point. You will be glad to know that you won’t be missed by any of us. Good luck… with whatever it is that u do…

  55. SONAM TOPDEN | February 20th, 2011 | 1:41 pm

    Thank you Dawa la for raising this important issue with LS directly during his campaing talk in Dhasa recently. I also like to thank JN la for making the record straight. Once again LS is caught not being sincere in his talk. If we all remember his last concluding remarks during Kalon Tripa debate in New York and everyone knew exactly what he was trying to say. Yet again later during his Madison campaign talk, he denied that during question answer session and he defended by saying he actually meant to say something else. One thing is for sure, either he thinks he is very smart or we Tibetan public are really fool. It is true LS informed about his China trip to TGIE. But we should remember that LS is not sent there by TGIE. Our Tibetan delegation never travel to China as Overseas Chinese. Ordinary Tibetan visit Tibet to see their beloved ones on Chinese OC visa but that is understandable. But someone who wants to be Katri and even one day Obama of China, then that becomes an issue and by basically LS has accepted Chinese OC visa, it clearly indicates he has accepted himself as one of Overseas Chinese. LS mentioned it is just a white paper that he dump it at the airport, but it is not simple as that. He claims he is a international legal expert but I find this very strange now.
    And please don’t ever try to bring His Holiness vision and policy of Middle Way Approach. This policy is there so that we Tibetans could preserve our culture and tradition and very identity so that Tibet could be saved before Chinese completely destroy our very identity. Middle Way policy never stated we are Chinese. Its a way to go forward to resolve our crisis as it is becoming critical now so that both Tibet and China gets mutual benefit. Remember we are not overseas Chinese. We are Tibetans who one day would like to go to Tibet and live alongside Chinese as a good neighbour country.

  56. ཁ་བརྡ། | བློ་བཟང་སེང་གེ་རྒྱ་ནག་ལ་ཕྱིན་པ། | February 20th, 2011 | 6:09 pm

    […] […]

  57. newgenerationTB | February 20th, 2011 | 8:43 pm

    @Sonam Topden: Firstly, Our Envoys, namely Gyari L. Gyaltsen and Kalsang Gyaltsen, including their assistants like Bhuchung Tsering of ICT travelled to China for talk on foreign passports. They don’t use IC to travel to China and talk. This is indeep a serious problem, do they represent Tibetans and do they represent US and European countries of residence?

    Secondly, they only talk to officials in the United Front Desk whose task is to oversee the various minorities, specifically, 55 official minorities of PRC including Tibetans. Thus, they already recognized they are citizen of PRC.

    NG

  58. Tador | February 20th, 2011 | 10:58 pm

    Am an ordinary Tibetan and am an eligible voter. I have listened and met all the three candidates, and I have made up my mind. I am not going to vote for someone who lies at point blank. All these untrue and manipulated so-called facts might fool us (common Tibetan voters) but internationally, it would do a great deal of harm to the credibility of Honorable Office of Kalon Tripa.

    Lobsang Sangay la for all his education, ethics and values, should not go on lying.

  59. Sherab | February 21st, 2011 | 2:25 am

    This all is beginning to sound creepier by the minute now. I think the rules and regulations pertaining to the entire candidature rights of a Tibetan for public office should be reexamined now after the LS revelations.

    The Tibetan struggle for preserving our identity should never be led by someone who has no qualms accepting that he is an overseas Chinese. LS la please, as much as you might want to dismiss it with your linguistic charm as a ‘white piece of paper’, the OC itself raises serious questions on your integrity as a down to the bone Tibetan.

    You really are scaring me now.

  60. Rewalsar | February 21st, 2011 | 3:45 am

    Yes, you are right, newgeneration! UF (Tungtenbo), most probably, has no power to decide anything politically important matters, such as the “Tibet Issue” as raised by the Tibetan Government in exile. Its main function (in addition to oversee the affairs of Minorities) is to “welcome home” the overseas chinese. It helps those (OCs) who get into practical troubles while travelling in Tibet, and arranges travel documents and accomodation.

    What actually the envoys had been doing in Beijing during those terms of visit? Did they end up with wrong counterparts?

  61. Dorjee | February 21st, 2011 | 4:08 am

    emotional masturbation

  62. nancy | February 21st, 2011 | 10:27 am

    At present,H.H. The Dalai lama’s blessing is there and it is high time we need to train the youth for leadership for future tibet.
    In any case,when chinese cant convert tibetan newly born educated and brought up in chinese environmet to be pro chinese then how can they change losang sangay la who is product of tibetan govt . in exile.i personally know him as student at delhi univ while taking part in tibetan youth movement as i am loved by acha rigden la .my real name is tashi

  63. Wangchuk | February 21st, 2011 | 12:34 pm

    This is the inherent dichotomy about the Middle Way & Tibetans’ true desires. His Holiness acknowledged in writing that it is the overhwelming desire for Tibetans to regain their independence. Yet our govt has clearly & unequivocally given up the claim for independence. So on the one hand, Tibetans want to be loyal & deferential so they say they support the Middle way for Tibetan autonomy. On the other hand, if you ask them are you willing to say you’re Chinese now & will carry a Chinese passport & pledge allegiance to the Chinese flag, they almost universally say no. There’s a mental disconnect about the whole Middle Way & what it really means. There’s deliberate avoidance of thinking the whole Middle Way proposal through to its inevitable conclusion & an avoidance of talking about the consequences if China were to accept the Middle Way offer.

    You can’t have it both ways. If you support the Middle Way for Tibetan Autonomy & you want to live in Tibet, then that would mean accepting Chinese citizeny, a Chinese passport & pledging allegiance to the Chinese nation. If that’s OK w/ you then fine but at least be intellectually honest about it.

  64. Wangchuk | February 21st, 2011 | 12:38 pm

    I wantched the Youtube video w/ the question that was posed to Dr. Sangay-la. I found his statements about Dawa-la being a Tethong supporter & stubborn to be condenscending & downright rude. Sangay-la was implying that Dawa-la’s question is not legitimate b/c she is a Tethong supporter as if it to dismiss the question. Joking about it made it worse b/c Sangay-la acted as if it were not a serious question, which it clearly was. Morever, I wonder if Sangay-la would’ve responded in the same manner if a prominent Tibetan man had asked the same question instead of a young woman. He probably would’ve been more respectful. Regardless of whether you agree w/ Dr. Sangay-la’s response or not, I think he owes Dawa-la an apology.

  65. ཁྲི་སྲོང་བཙན། | February 21st, 2011 | 2:31 pm

    འཇམ་ནོར་ལགས། དངོས་གནས་ངས་གཞི་ནས་ཤེས་སོང་། ཁྱེད་ནས་འདི་ལྟར་འབད་བརྩོན་གནང་བ་དེས་ཁྱོད་ལ་དམིགས་ཡུལ་ངེས་ཅན་ཞིག་ཡོད་པ་གཞི་ནས་ཤེས་སོང་།

  66. ཁྲི་སྲོང་བཙན། | February 21st, 2011 | 2:43 pm

    དངོས་གནས་མི་དམངས་ལ་རྫུན་བཤད་ཕོད་པ་དེས་ངས་ད་བར་ཁྱེད་ལ་འཛིན་པའི་ལྟ་སྟངས་ནམ་མཁའི་འཇའ་ལྟར་ཡལ་སོང་། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༢༠༠༦ ལོའི་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་དེས་ནིའུ་ཡོག་གསུངས་བཤད་གནང་སྐབས་་་སྔོན་མ་ང་རྒྱ་ནག་ལ་འགྲོ་དུས་་་་ཟེར་ནས་གསུངས་སོང་། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༢༠༡༡ སྟེ་ད་ལྟའི་འཇམ་ནོར་དེས་་་་ང་རྒྱ་ནག་ཏུ་འགྲོ་མ་མྱོང་ཟེར་་་་་་་ད་ནི་ངས་ཅིའི་ཕྱིར་བཤད་པ་ཤེས་མེད་ནའང་། ནང་འགལ་གྱི་སྐད་ཆ་འདི་གཉིས་ནས་གཅིག་རྫུན་གཏམ་ཡིན་པ་ཤེས་སོང་། ཕྱིར་དྲན་སླད་ནེའུ་ཡོག་ཏུ་བཤད་སྨྱན་གཟུགས་ངས་ youtube ནང་བཞག་ཆོག

  67. daveno | February 21st, 2011 | 3:21 pm

    An apology to a stalker! What a BS. If you ask stupid question in a political setting with malicious intend..you will get boooo and poooo.There is no ifs here.

  68. Ani Tonpa | February 21st, 2011 | 4:49 pm

    To all of you above,
    So in that case, Tibetans who hold citizenship of US, Germany, France, Belgium, England,Italy, Swiss, Australia, Canada, Nepal, India and other countries should not be given voting privelage. Because, they are either citizen of above mention countries. Furthermore, voters of above citizen should be asked to show their passport of above countries to verify country of origin. I bet 95% of them are listed as China in their passport/Green Card.
    I would like to argue here that neither the Kalon tripa candidate nor the tibetan voters who holds citizenship of other country should not be given the opportunity theeir rights.

  69. newgenerationTB | February 22nd, 2011 | 11:37 am

    @Ani Tonpa: You are right! But Dawa la’s consistent effort to exaggerate that LS wants to be Overseas Chinese National, Jamyang Norbu’s subtle implication of LS as wannabe Chinese, specifically “Obama of China”, through his article of “Obama of China”, worse is that, so called independent and transparent private website, run by three persons, THE http://www.TIBETANPOLITICALREVIEW.ORG, their so called Investigation of LS’s Obama of China and foregone conclusion that LS wanna be Chinese national, are highly misleading. These same people who do not have either IC or claimed as “citizenship of PRC” on their foreign documents. It is indeed need to be exposed. They owe an “apology” to LS. Hopefully, it is not an intention of Kudras will rerun the government for self interest in the absence of HHDL, or not preparing for such an eventualities. You never know, but it is always better put in check!

    NG

  70. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 22nd, 2011 | 1:53 pm

    The real question that Dawa La asked was at the end i.e. what does he thinks about the Tibetans having someone who has accepted to be a OCN as the Kalon Tripa and what he is going to do if this becomes a problem down the road for the Tibetans. He should have simply offered his opinion on that point. I would have respected his opinions if he had simply raised a few points that his supporters here are raising e.g. along the line that middle way already accepts Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, although I don’t agree with them. Instead he makes a condescending remark, tries to make fun of her and gives a long convoluted answer which had nothing to do with the question on the table. Dawa la had investigated and found that the Delegates didn’t travel on OCN visa as LS has stated the day before. When she refutes this point, LS had nothing to say. Perhaps realizing that he has been caught lying he goes on to tell another lie in a desperate attempt to numb the shock of the previous one by saying JN and LT had travelled on OCN visa. Of course, he throws in a qualifier like a typical cornered politician, but it doesn’t take a scientist to figure out what he is trying to do. This is pathetic. I mean he says things without thinking through. He is in danger of transforming from “Obama of China” to “George Bush of China”. The main mistake he makes is that he takes the question as a personal attack instead as a question that has significant implications on the future of our cause and which needs serious contemplation and honest answers.

  71. Tashi Dhondup | February 22nd, 2011 | 1:58 pm

    Jamyang la,

    If you and Lhasang la have not travelled to Beijing as an OCN like what Lobsang Senghe declared in the mass public gathering, I would serious request you to consider suing Lobsang Senghe at the Tibetan Supreme Court. It was an uncalled for and he has been using peoples name to justify himself. This would in a way serve the Tibetan community in exile in understang what the real LS is. I found his character very vulnerable and lacks wisdom in dealing with people and situations.

  72. Bhodme59 | February 22nd, 2011 | 2:03 pm

    If we would listen carefully to HHDL we will realize that HHDL never says Tibet is part of China. What HHDL says is Tibet is part of PRC, which is today a fact and I think this makes a huge difference. Why otherwise would you think should HHDL and the envoys not agree to one of the major conditions set by the Chinese government of us to accept that ‘Tibet has always been part of China’ in order to continue with the dialogue. You cannot ignore those details and this is why we cannot afford to have anyone as Katri who has voluntarily acknowledged to become an Oversea Chinese National.

    No one – not Prof. SR and not TGIE – can forbid any private person/Tibetan from such acknowledgement, but it’s the individual’s responsibility and judgment to evaluate the consequences, especially if this person has the intention to run for Katri.

    If Prof. SR has been informed by Dr LS about this visit to Tibet/China and if Prof. SR did not have any objection to Dr LS’s Tibet and China visits at that point of the time not knowing that Dr LS is going to run for Katri, it does not mean that this would not have any complication in our struggle if the same Dr LS would become our next Katri. Should Dr LS have aldready known at that time that this is something he is going to do, then it’s the most stupid thing he could have ever done, because there are good reasons why none of our envoys/delegation members, even when they were travelling on stateless/IC status, ever acknowledged the OCN status.

  73. Padma Kadag | February 22nd, 2011 | 2:04 pm

    my Tibetan wife who resides and born in India with all of the necessary documentation was recently interviewed at the US Embassy for her immigration to the US and was neither rejected or approved for a CR-1 immigration visa. She got a letter telling her to wait while they “do administrative” whatever. Can anyone give help us or tell me what is involved here?

  74. daveno | February 22nd, 2011 | 2:30 pm

    I wish Lobsang Sangay would say “I AM ALREADY YOUR KATRI! ” just to fire-up the nerves and give a kick to the jealous ego of the few.

  75. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 22nd, 2011 | 3:12 pm

    Daveno, Lobsang Sangay says “I am already YOUR Katri”. So be happy OK. He says he will be exclusively your Katri in the event he is not elected.

    For the rest of the Tibetans, he is not, not yet.

    Ouch! my jealous ego is hurting.

  76. PASANG | February 22nd, 2011 | 4:20 pm

    We have a right to question LS’s intentions and actions if He wants to be Kalon Tripa. it is quite apparent that LS’s liasing with the chinese too much has influenced his outlook, jsut as chinese masses influenced by ccp’s propaganda.Why couldnt he influence them to our point of view if he’s that samrt and charsimatic and all that. He didnt make any breakthrough as a matter of fact he is selling out.HH can do that but not any ordianry tibetan person. mind it!

  77. PASANG | February 22nd, 2011 | 4:38 pm

    before you guys start attacking me let me clarify that i did not mean HHDL is selling out. I meant to say that only HHDl has the right to make overtures, concessions etc.

  78. newgenerationTB | February 22nd, 2011 | 4:47 pm

    What do you guys think a Tibetan guy, a very accomplished guy, true patriotic, married a Chinese Wife and running for Katri in the future?

    We say, we are preserving our nationality, cutlure, religion, and so forth? What does this mean? Do we need a role model of absolute Tibetan or do we need a ramaluk?

    NG

  79. Sangay | February 22nd, 2011 | 5:18 pm

    Lobsang Sangay said he asked Kashag, Kugyer Yigtsang and Ari Dhonchoe if it was OK for him to go to China. According to him they all said “OK” and thus gave him green signal to fly. This is very confusing.

    Lobsang Sangay’s trip to China was his personal business trip and not an official one, and as such, technically, there was no need for him to seek “OK” from Kashag, Kugyer or Ari Dhonchoe. And Kashag, kugyer and Dhonchoe on their part should have dismissed the request on the ground that he was going there on his own and as such they have no ‘jurisdiction’ or say ‘yes/no’ over his personal matter.

    Lobsang Sangay claims that Samdhong Rinpoche ‘louded’ him at a Minnesota Tibetan gethering for his going to China. I haven’t seen the youtube video or heard that speech where Rinpoche validated his china visit. Assuming Rinpoche did say that, it should be understood as the personal opinion of Samdhong Rinpoche, and not as the Kalon Tripa of TGIE. If it was said as the ‘Kalon Tripa’ then we all should have problem with SR, not just me.

    Lobsang Sangay, as cunning as he is, by involving all these offices of TGIE to his personal trip made ‘complete fool’ of them and put them in an awkward position of sort to defend him. And this is actually what he’s doing now: Dawa la from Boston asked hm the question, and he indirectly said “go ask Kashag, Samdong Rinpoche, Kugyer and Ari Dhonchoe”. And Kashag, Kugyer and Ari Dhonchoe – whoever were responsible for saying OK to him from these offices, revealed how irresponsible they are and how little they know. If I’m to blame someone for this and hold answerable, I will heap all blame squarely on Kashag, Kugyer and Ari Dhonchoe. Because one is ‘thief’, thievery is what he will do. Our job is to keep away and let him not get away with anything. Instead of doing that, it was like they all ‘assisted’ him in stealing.

  80. Ani Tonpa | February 22nd, 2011 | 5:19 pm

    to Sharu, Gashi, Acu tonpa and specially Dawa stalker la,

    I totally agree with Nyinje la about OC and foreign passport are two sides of same coin. According to JN, LS travelled on OC is big deal than what about tibetans holding foreign passport/greencard and such other documents where country of origin is listed as CHINA, in other words birth place is(PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA)on their passport. How about that?

    So, above active commentators, did you mean that these people should present passport/greencard, any other documents during the forthcoming voting on March 20th 2011 to prove whether they can cast their vote or not because you guys accused LS for travelling on OC then these people are even worse. According to JN’s article, these tibetans will be regarded as chinese, chinese birth or descent(or partial chinese)living overseas and resident or citizen of another country, so they can’t vote, period.
    Some of you said LS travelled on OC Five years ago then these tibetans are holding the country of origin as China for their life and never be able to change unless they abondon the country.

    Dawa Stalker la, you are specially trained to be diligent and (outsu tsapo)has been stalking LS from Boston to Dharamsala, India to ask about his OC issue. Do us (Tibetans)a favour, since you are so diligent and adament about knowing people’s life, find out (just in your area, is that Boston?? okay so be it, your job is to ask the voters to present their most current travel document, greencard, citizenship documents to make sure they are not PRC living overseas. If the birth place shows PRC or country of origin says China thats it, they are not allowed to vote.

    As per you and others said that you do not support OC travellers.
    Also, LS should be given equal rights as other tibetans, who travelled to China/Tibet on OC whether to meet long lost family or business should be treated as same.Because OC is a OC does not matter what the purpose is. At least, LS went their for tibet cause not for personal or on business.

    LS does or says anything it is a big deal for TNT/ TW supporters. Last time its about Obama, next Tingmo Dali, then JD/PhD and now OC Big deal, LOL

    Do you guys think you are campaigning and supporting your candidate??? Neo way, ngo tsa ya mekyo, Bunch of liars are gathered here. you are in need of Kyakpa tsapo.

    Now people, you owe(Ani Tonpa) a reply to my previous blog and this one. You can write whatever you want when others try to explain or answer the questions, you do not want to know it or accept it. Like Dawa Stalker, she is never satisfied with LS explanation. You are Bostonian, ask him at your home town, why stalk to India. Do you have personal reason? Nyinje,Khame, OH you want a revenge!!! I got it.

    Lets write a letters to TGIE about the above movement whether these people(tibetans holding foreign documents, country of origin as China
    should be given voting rights or not and same with Kalon Tripa candidates. As some of you have mention, you do not want OC travellers as Kalon
    tripa then every single tibetan who travelled on OC should be investigated like you are doing to LS and given equal rights and treated fairly to everyone. Why single out LS??? Which means, we should postpone the voting date inorder to investigate which takes time.

    good Luck

  81. ཁ་བརྡ། | བློ་བཟང་སེང་གེ་དང་ཕྱིར་སྡོད་རྒྱ་མིའི་མཐོང་ཆེན་ལག་འཁྱེར། | February 22nd, 2011 | 8:57 pm

    […] འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུའི་ལན་ལ་འདི་ནས་གཟིགས། […]

  82. Arothondup | February 23rd, 2011 | 12:30 am

    Dr. Sengay does not clarify whether he had personally requested the TGIE or on the otherhand the TGIE had instructed him to continue to work from Boston. I wish he would clarify this!!!

  83. Agu Tonpa | February 23rd, 2011 | 12:56 am

    Ani Tonpa,
    # 54: Then those Tibetan living in India shouldn’t be given voting privilege too because they are neither Tibetan Citizen. There are Indian IC holder not Tibetan Passport holder.

    Ani, didn’t you know/see my passport says i am Tibetan. If you still behave like this i will not bring you here (I’m gonna divorce you).

    Well! Tibetan in US refused to have their country as CHina in the passport. Obiviously, Some like LS has no problem being called as Chinese. But many people i knew had their country changed to Tibet or India. They refused to accept that nonsense. We stood firm in our commitment. We complain or sought help from the Office of Tibet, NY. Through lobbying and with the help of office of Tibet, New York, if you check, you will find circular saying that Tibetan can choose Tibet as their country instead of China. Today, I have India written as my country of Birth in my Passport while my parents as Tibet. So proud of that.

    You have the option: If you want you can have it. After all we live in a democratic world. I have lived as a proud Tibetan, Fought with CHinese as a Proud Khampa/Tibetan and will die as a proud Tibetan. F**K with the Overseas CHinese.

    Why do you wanna wag your tail for that visit. You had our respect as a proud Tibetan youth Member, Harvard graduate, and eloquent speaker. You do not need to stoop down to such level. Look, now you have almost no chances for Katri. Don’t think that you can fool Tibetan. There are many intelligent people in our community unlike yesteryears with few scholars such as Jamyang la and lhasang la.

    The irony is LS doesn’t know that his lies are caught and was a very embarrassing situation. Yet he never acknowledges mistakes, forget about apology.

    His answer to Dawa la (TNT supporters are so childish. Hey LS supporters, Tell your Katri candidate not to lie that much.

    Dedra Mabhin dhang VOOR Tsa La;
    1. Gyemi Khepa 1000 nyam du debate cheyin.
    2. Bhoe Ki Dhon du Ari la Droyin.
    3. Agor bhum 3, 4 laa (salary) yuk ne Harvard the Bhoe ki dhon du dhep yin. kyakpa, Apple packing Jene Mangpo dhepa.

    Hampa la, Shenang la….. Sang Nyin Chu chenpo nang lhung na…. Nge Bhoe ki dhondu chom yin lapdho khapo dhuk.

    auuuutse, Me dhi dha, aaaaahar tsa la.

    Kyaktser Lobsang sangye.

    Yours Agu.

  84. dokpo serpo | February 23rd, 2011 | 3:01 am

    As long as we don’t have at least biparty system, there is no point in argument in the first place. After all China is also a one party nation. What’s the difference then?

  85. kyab | February 23rd, 2011 | 6:57 am

    What’s this?

  86. daveno | February 23rd, 2011 | 8:27 am

    Agu, Run run..

    Sera-jey gheykhoe is looking for you in sermey dhokhang with a Maar in his hand.

  87. gonpo | February 23rd, 2011 | 10:40 am

    Aro Agu Tonpa,

    I didn’t know any macho khampa guy (you claimed to be khampa) can name himself as a sissy name like agu tonpa. That itself shows what kind of personality you have or how you viewed yourself. Cho me chu drulo chig mans. Worse are the kind who claimed to be khampa yet they don’t have single drop of khampa blood in their body. As legends goes, agu tonpa was a sexually deprived character who can do anything to get laid by ani damchoe palmo. So your life in a nutshell has no credibility whatsoever.

    Proper respect to those people who were able to change their country of origin to tibet but again, it is just handful of people. By default, if you are tibetan, United States department of State automatically put china on a passport and naturalization certificate, there is not ifs and buts, except few lucky ones were able to amend their credentials. Also, there are few cases where they were not able to change their country of origin to tibet. US advised us that tibet as a country does not exist in their database of countries hence they can’t select it and change it. SO THE KEY THING HERE IS BY DEFAULT YOU ARE CHINESE NATIONALITY IF YOU ARE TIBETAN IN THE EYES OF USA GOVT. unless Agu can go and rig their database and add tibet there. No wait, why would Agu do that, he choose to be Indian on the passport than Tibetan, now what, he became GYAKAR KHAMPA now.

    Agu, you mentioned that you fought with chinese as a proud khampa/tibet, mind to tell us what did that happen? hope not in your sleep though. Again this indian thing is not settling well with me, why the hell did you choose to be indian when there is a option to be Tibetan after you have complained, lobbied etc.

    The bitter irony is there is sky earth difference between you and Khawang Dr. Lobsang Sangay la. I have no doubts in my mind if he said, he initiated dialogue with 1000 chinese intellectuals. The guy has a brain and gut to do this. Your colorful choice of words like hampa, kyakpa and what not suits and compliments you after all, you are nothing but sissy AGU TONPA.

  88. tintin | February 23rd, 2011 | 10:54 am

    Padma,
    That means the US embassy probably have some questions regarding the authenticity of some documents or want to check any inconsistencies during the interview and the petition. If all is fine then they’ll call her to come and pick up the visa.

  89. Thinley | February 23rd, 2011 | 11:12 am

    wow it is crazy! isn’t it? Kalon Trip candidate such lier. we should read more and think more, and we need more information about them soon as possible! the time is coming.

  90. lodhar | February 23rd, 2011 | 12:37 pm

    བློ་སེང་དེ་ལས་མ་རབས་དང་ཧམ་པ་ཚ་བ། རྙོག་འདྲ་ཚ་བ། བཀའ་ཁྲི་གཡུག་ཞོག ་གནས་སྐབས་བརྫཱུན་མི་ཤོད་ཐབས་ལ་སྦྱང་པ་གྱིས།

  91. Sangay | February 23rd, 2011 | 6:22 pm

    It’s still the same name-calling and there’s yet to come even a single argument in support of Lobsang Sangay’s OCN crisis from his camp that makes even a tiny sense. It’s the same thing: Tibetans are considered “chinese” by USA, India or any country so whats wrong if LS signed OCN document!

    Before jumping on half-baked conclusion, you must realize the ‘premise’ on which Tibetans in USA are ‘considered’ ‘chinese’ and Lobsang Sangay chose to be considered Chinese are totally different, almost to the point of earth and sky!

    Tibetans in USA or anywhere including India are refugees whose country has been invaded by China and thus forced them to flee thier homeland and seek shelter in these countries. What we need most beside ‘bread’ and cloths’ is a roof above our head. And one among us Tibetan refugees is Lobsang Sangay. We should be thankful to India and USA for giving us refuge. And in the course of living in these countries if we fulfill certain conditions which make us eligible to apply for citizenship of these countries, by all means we should. It makes our stay safer, reducing the threats of being deported to Tibet which only means facing the chinese bullets.

    Now in the course of applying for say US citizenship, if USA govt has a policy of writing ‘China’ instead of ‘Tibet’ in our passport, we may have to agree reluctantly. It is something which is ‘FORCED’ on us and we are helpless to do anything about it. I’m sure many Tibetans who are now US citizens have “china” as a birth place or origin are not happy about it and if they were given the choice to have Tibet written, I’m sure they all will do happily!

    Now lets go back to Lobsang Sangay. Lobsang Sangay has IC which means he sought refuge in India on the ground that China invaded his country Tibet and as such he’s a refugee from Tibet. If in his IC his place of birth or origin is stated as China, then he can’t be held liable for that. It’s GOI’s policy. Like the US govt we should be thankful that these countries provided us an Identity to carry and a place to stay in the first place; questioning their policy is the last thing you want to do no matter we might disagree with it. What Lobsang Sangay did unlike the Tibetans in US or India on whom “chinese nationality” is IMPOSED against their will by third countries, is he went before a Chinese govt agency on his own and WILLFULLY signed a document in his full conciousness stating that he admits he’s a Chinese national! See the difference?????

    Now if you put down LS hat for a second and try to see the difference (and predicament) of rest of the Tibetans and Lobsang Sangay on this nationality issue, you should not only be able to see there’s nothing much to ‘blame’ on other Tibetans for having thier passpsorts say “chinese national”, but should also see something that says wht kind of man Lobsang Sangay is, and more, at a time when Integrity and the spirit to not compromise on Tibetan race and nationality are the only things thats saving our culture and nation!

  92. mani rinpoche | February 23rd, 2011 | 7:44 pm

    Kunchok khen, gyok po dro, agu tonpa la, kup nang la gyap yong, tsabo tsabo

  93. Thinley | February 23rd, 2011 | 9:38 pm

    Actully I supporter LB, but now I don’t real know what he is talking about last few days. It was very dispointed to me when he had aswered the question at the Sara College.

  94. Bhuchung | February 24th, 2011 | 12:59 am

    LS as Dr.Frankenstein, Kasur Tashi Wangdi as Dumbledore

    TN Tenthong as????

  95. old monk | February 24th, 2011 | 8:19 am

    hey guys, just returned from a holiday trip to Italy. But no good news here still–LS bashing game is rife with melodramaic zest, fueled by the likes of JN, and elitist apparachiks. The hallmark of Tibetan politics– pulling down the leg of a rising can-do man– is still persistent. Sorrow is beyond measure in my heart.

    We need pragmatic leader like LS who has a broad vision of the global politics, who believes more in ‘ doing’ things rather than making inplausible, earth-shattering claims like ‘ We need independence’, while doing nothing. LS doesn’t engage in divisive politics, picking on fellow Tibetans instead of directing the energies on PRC. Politicians and activist make mistakes but they are 70% correct, which is acceptable, whether it is LS or kate saunters. PRC has 70% wrong. JN would do well to bite PRC thugs, rather than being a lion amongst the lamb, and achieve nothing.

    and fellas, don’t read shitty, shameful blogs like TPR. That is a laughable, immoral campaign by TNT fanatics masquerading behind the shadows of poison. And that so-called Dawa, the stalker, made a farce of herself. she’s a box of poison. LS rightly nailed her down, and the crowd stamped on her with thunderous applauses, and order was restored! None can beat the wit,humour, and fire of scholar LS, Obama of Tibet!

  96. Padma Kadag | February 24th, 2011 | 8:30 am

    TINTIN

    Thanks for the Info!!!

  97. daveno | February 24th, 2011 | 9:33 am

    Sangay la,
    You are correct that we should not compromise on our RACE and PURITY OF OUR NATIONALITY which came from Pha tehuu janchup sempa and ma drak seemo.
    We should have PURITY as our policy because we are classified now as “endangered human race”.This is not a joke.
    So, in the spirit of PURITY, Lets elect a Leader who represents PURITY and set an example to the younger generation.

  98. Lhundup Gyatso | February 24th, 2011 | 10:06 am

    Dear thinly.
    Neither i know should i cry nor get angry on seeing your pointless comment which have boastfully written here. Dear if really like to judge some one, you should be led by an accurate account of information as well as eye-to-eye deviances. You better to have a look in your sentence structure first. I think you have forgotten the traditional wisdom: “when you point one finger towards others, the rest of your fingers are pointing to yourself”. So please do not act as a foolish dog which will follow any one who trows him something to eat, rather act as a man, a man of dignity, a Buddhist and the son of a father. I thus really like to remind you that before you fox attempts to jump to where the majestic tiger had jumped, you better sleep in your fart-filled bed. I think clear information does not make any sense to your decision making, if your heart is a direction-less toilet paper carrying hither and thither on the dusty street.also the mere information without crystal-clear knowledge about the candidate leads you to an unexpected bottomless void of regret.Therefore please do not let your one and only vote go like throwing a stone into the vast ocean as that do make a whole difference not only to the ocean but to our eternal enemy!!!! Please, please…..

  99. Sangay | February 24th, 2011 | 10:15 am

    Diwana la,

    With Kunchok sum’s Katrin if Woeser la is able to come to India or any other country outside China and should she decide to live permanently, I’m gonna endorse her for Kalon Tripa of TGIE in a heart-beat!

  100. daveno | February 24th, 2011 | 11:28 am

    Sangha la,
    The word “IF” in your statement is a clear reflection of your defeatist attitude. Be a go getter and make it happen!

  101. gonpo | February 24th, 2011 | 11:46 am

    If and when Woeser la runs for katri post, I am sure these same people will have beef with her.

  102. Sangay | February 24th, 2011 | 4:06 pm

    Diwana and parawana of LS,

    Ok, that was a brief commercial break in between with a message but it went over your thick head. or you dodged it, as always. never mind.

    Lets get back to the business. So your ‘go-getter’ Lobsang Sangay one fine day knocked on Chinese embassy door in NYC and said, hello comrades, do hell with my Tibetan nationality, I consider myself Chinese, tell me where I do need to sign!

    Diwana, you are right, unlike us Lobsang Sangay is indeed a go-getter! He’s got Chinese nationality certificate, and now he’s onto getting the chair of Kalon Tripa of Tibetan govt in exile! It’s like he has got Tibet in left pocket and China in right pocket! wow, this man is mother of all go-getters!

  103. daveno | February 24th, 2011 | 4:40 pm

    Sangha!

    ha ha! cheap shot. Make it happen! Be a PAWO and not a replacement for basement heater.

  104. Sharu Chigpa | February 24th, 2011 | 6:10 pm

    Folks on the left right and middle: Here is my sincere take on the OCN issue of Lobsang Sangay. For a minute, we can all assume that this is just another hullaballoo from the groups or individuals opposing the Katri candidacy of LS but if we ponder a little deeper, there is more to this issue than meets the eye. If LS wins this election and becomes Katri, what is his answer going to be when the Chinese govt. flaunts LS’s visa application form on which he has signed sincerely agreeing to be an Overseas Chinese National. This is not an issue that can be solved by a few twisted answers from LS. He has to live with it the rest of his life and living with this guilt and burden on Kalon Tripa’s seat will be like turning himself into the Pied Piper of Hamelin and lead 6 million Tibetans to irreversible death and destruction.
    I will pray that LS voluntarily resigns from Katri candidacy with immediate effect.

  105. Ani Tonpa | February 24th, 2011 | 10:06 pm

    Aro Dawa la,

    I heard your father had been to Tibet long time ago, is that right??? If the answer is yes, do you mind telling us on what document did he travelled, was it on OCN????

    Waiting for your answer eagerly…

  106. Sharu Chigpa | February 24th, 2011 | 11:57 pm

    Ani Nyonma….A nonsense question here! Dawa’s father is not running for Kalon Tripa Okay? If Lobsang Sangay is not running for Katri, we would be least worried about his acceptance as a Chinese national. But here we are talking about LS’s status because we as Tibetans cannot have a Kalon Tripa who has openly accepted to the Chinese govt. that he is a Chinese national. I think, every supporter of LS will have to think a hundred times before talking in defense of LS on this OCN issue.

    Hope this answer is enough to change your mind into talking something positive for our nation Tibet than supporting a Chinese.

  107. Young Punk | February 25th, 2011 | 1:55 am

    We Don’t Want
    No Fucking Chinese
    No Slimey Opportunist
    No Zero Experience LoSer
    As our Kalon Tripa
    Truth always comes out eventually and hopefully it won’t be too late by then!

  108. ཆོས་འཕེལ | February 25th, 2011 | 4:40 am

    I was wondering that Tenzing namgyal is American Citizen or not ? If Tenzing la is American , is american going to be head of tibetan? I have never thought it before

  109. ཆོས་འཕེལ | February 25th, 2011 | 4:50 am

    I do not think it is big deal if one of three went to china with the chinese passport because that passport is just for visiting relative chinse citizen but big problem here is if someone is officially american and still can be head of tibetan? I do not think it is right? Main tibetan policy is planing to be chinese citizen, isn’t it? if not what for hoping to get through middle way?

  110. Datse | February 25th, 2011 | 8:23 am

    Though evidence is produced and truth provide,
    Blinded are the eyes of envious men.
    As she is on the second step to democracy,
    Narrow minded dimmed the future of Tibet!!!!

    Today’s burning issue of Katri upon which depends the ultimate hope of six million Tibetans has been so much politicized speculated that I began to suspect almost every articles and the manifestos written on the concerned subject. Especially when I came a cross the hypocritical and biased tone of Jamyang Norbu in black and white, the image I used to have of him as an awakened revolutionary guide or as role model to the younger generations of Tibet happened to change!. I hope I misunderstand his articles this time.

    The election of young and energetic Barrack Obama as the president of UAS against the withered and wrinkled Mchain had given a crystal-clear message world wide that the 21st century is the century of educated modern youths rather than the blue blooded aristocrats. But my Jamyang Norbu seemed missed by this universal message when he persistently dug, like a pig, the insignificant and imperceptible divts of Katri’s candidates.

    Many writers, both westerns and Chinese, have accused our Tibetan Government of being feudal and aristocratic like that of 1950s run by some despotic influential families such as Tethong family, Gyari family, Jhuchen family etc. so isn’t it paramount to disprove such baseless accusations by letting a none-backed youth on the people’s throne of Katri. But when I went through Jamyang Norbu’s word by word, I found that he seemed supporting their accusations of Tibet, no less!! Dear readers, are we destined still today to kowtow under the incongruous system of old Tibet? Hope the answer from you would be a big, big No!!!
    Above all and to utter surprise, Jamyang Norbu is vilifying one of the candidates as a Chinese spy, non-qualified Harvard degrees, Chinese Obama and what not!! It’s imperative to verify as soon as possible whether his claims are true or a sign of being jealous. The questions spray up here is who will be the real Chinese spy regarding our cause? If some one is causing troubles and destruction to Tibet in such situation then isn’t he worse than a spy? So it’s vital to remember the rest of your fingers pointing to yourself while you point one finger toward others .Chinese spy is on mature reflection a favorite accusation made against Tibetan immigrants who do not have a strong support of background. Under such unfair accusatory discriminations, we had lost a man of wisdom known as Amdo Gedun Choephel followed by Tsepan Lungshar, the finance minister and thirteenth Dalai Lama. Before such unrepeatable tragedies repeat again, we better wake up before it’s too late!

    To therefore sum up , much of how Tibet will go in the future will be strongly effected by the coming katri and the kind of katri will be deter minded by the number of vote .Thus , let’s our vote go for the best candidate so that Tibet won’t regret latter on.

  111. daveno | February 25th, 2011 | 9:26 am

    Sharu nyingpa!

    LS has maintained the PURITY of his nationality or Race.That shows his personal perception of being TIBETAN,for Tibetan and by Tibetan.

  112. old monk | February 25th, 2011 | 10:23 am

    An analysis: the way JN-fueled fanatics hit at LS with incongruous attacks, many people feel sympathetic towards LS. LS, unlike TNT, has no complicated back-up systems due to family backgrounds, the common tibetan people feel the need to side with LS.

  113. old monk | February 25th, 2011 | 10:32 am

    @ Datse, i agree with you.
    1. tibet is still bit fuedal, with power garnered by same aristocratic families like tethong.
    2. we should see who is the real chinese spy. LS or his prime critic. JN is, i believe, on very good terms with Woeser( writer in tibet)…she is widely believed to be a chinese spy in disguise of a brave Tibetan writer on basis of a string of facts. Her husband, Wang lan Xio was an advisor of Hu Jin Tao.When film maker like Ngawang can be easily arrested with American passport, how can china can do nothing to this frail women? China can do anything. Look at the recent spate of arrests. Nothing can get more complicated than CCP. JN should be doubted.

  114. jo lak | February 25th, 2011 | 10:32 am

    Friends, Jamyang Norbu clarified his own stand on comments made by so called kalon tripa candidate Lobsang Sangay/Singye (please pick one of your choice)in public. LS is just commoner not the incumbent kalon tripa. I have following questions. 1) Should our Kalon Tripa candidate transparent in his act n deeds? 2)Do you like your Kalon Tripa to be a man of inconsistence or consistent one? 3)Do you like your Kalon Tripa approachable one or inapproachable after elected for Kalon Tripa? 4)Why dont LS come clear on his association with Dharamsala based Chu Shi Gang drug, for whom he left the his post in Tibetan Youth Congress (CENTREX)?

  115. Chinese Engineer | February 25th, 2011 | 12:12 pm

    “how can china can do nothing to this frail women”

    because her husband happens to be wang li xiong. You have to understand that both woeser and wang li xiong target Han Chinese as their primary audience, and wang li xiong is somewhat influential, even in political circles.

  116. Kalsang Phuntsok | February 25th, 2011 | 1:28 pm

    I think in light of the fact that the supporters of LS have nothing left to say in defence of his complete indifference to the “OCN as Katri” question but have now resorted to cooking up conspiracy theories, the believers of truth, honesty and dignity can now declare victory on this debate. I would like to request the webmaster to close the Comments string on this article as nothing constructive is being contributed here.

  117. Sharu Chigpa | February 25th, 2011 | 3:02 pm

    Lobsang Sangay is an Overseas Chinese National. He went to Beijing twice on his own and I am suspicious of any deal that he may have stuck with the crazy Chinese communists about the future of Tibet if he becomes Kalon Tripa. He seems to have the backing and planning of a big power which is clear from his campaigning and interest in the Kalon Tripa post as early as 2009 when he started making the trips to various Tibetan places to garner support with unlimited cash flow. Such a great interest, planning and financial power is naturally suspicious.

    Now if he wins the Katri election, Chinese govt will be very proud as LS has signed on the dotted lines that he is a Chinese national. But can we as Tibetans be proud to have a person who didn’t have any hesitation accepting himself as a Chinese national to be our Kalon Tripa? I am sure no sensible Tibetan will accept this and will surely vote against LS.

  118. daveno | February 25th, 2011 | 3:27 pm

    Whatever is cooking in the pot.The smell of Lobsang sangay victory has been in the air all these time.Only the wise could smell, not the ranglung changlung type.

  119. Sharu Chigpa | February 25th, 2011 | 4:46 pm

    Yes, Divana of LS, I smell something too but it is the rotting of LS. If not for his serial lies and his OCN issue, I would not mind voting for him even though he has zero experience in the TGIE administrative skills. But enough is enough, LS’s only goal seems to be to take the Katri seat and then sleep on it for 5 years. Poor man!!!

  120. ཆོས་འཕེལ | February 25th, 2011 | 5:50 pm

    No supporter of Tenzing namgyal has explain about my Question include Jamyang norbu, I am worried that Tibetan leader is coming a not officially tibetan, tibetan leader is going to be a american.

  121. Sem-tsab | February 25th, 2011 | 6:03 pm

    Why lobsang Sangye is lying to get his post for Kalon Tripa. When he visited to China , did he clearify to Kashag and Private Office that he is visiting there with OCN .Why LS is misusing our dignitary like Kalond Tripa SR, Private Office and Lhasang Tsering, Jamyang Norbu as he never been to Tibet. I don’t think that LS explained our Kashag and Private Office, Office of Tibet that he is visiting the china with the OCN passport. I think LS is not eligible for Katri post as he is arguing with some individual people who ask him question. We don’t want to be our kalon Tripa who is always lying him as a khewang as he even don’t hold degree of Ph.D

  122. daveno | February 25th, 2011 | 6:11 pm

    Sharuu nyinpa,

    Your senses are deceiving you lady.You could not recognize your own smell “sharuupa smell”.

  123. Sharu Chigpa | February 25th, 2011 | 8:51 pm

    Divana of LS… don’t stray out of topic, we are talking about LS’s OCN issue. If LS wins this race and if China says here is a person who has accepted as a Chinese national by signing on paper, what will LS’s answer be??? This is not easy, China is always looking at opportunities and LS’s signature with the Chinese govt. accepting as a Chinese national will drag every Tibetan people in to the Chinese gutter that includes you too. Will that be fun for you? may be yes for you and LS but we Tibetans cannot have fun in such a situation. It is in-fact horrifying!

  124. daveno | February 26th, 2011 | 11:15 am

    Sharuu nyinpa,

    You are a chinese national when you part of middle way ( either by choice or not).We gave up our arrss through that referendum.
    The smell is yours alone , deal with it!

  125. Tashi Dorjee | February 26th, 2011 | 12:21 pm

    VOA TV:Tenzin Namgyal said: Tibet has been seprarated to three parts by CCP,it’s worng, it should be five parts.He doesn’t know the true situation in Tibet.

    VOA TV:Tenzin Namghyal said:people without experince who can not be a dishwasher-worker work at a Restaurant. It’s wrong,almost of people without experince who work at a restauran. I have no experince,but I worked at a restaurant . That means, Mr.Tenzin Namgyal doesn’t know people’s life and hardworking.

  126. Tashi Dorjee | February 26th, 2011 | 1:53 pm

    VOA TV:Tenzin Namgyal said: Tibet has been seprarated to three parts by CCP,it’s worng, it should be five parts.He doesn’t know the true situation in Tibet.

    VOA TV:Tenzin Namghyal said:people without
    experince who can not be a dishwasher-worker work at a Restaurant. It’s wrong,most of peopoe who without
    experince but they work at restaurant.I have no experince,but I worked at a restaurant. That means,Mr.Tenzin Namgyal doesn’t know people’s life and hardworking.

  127. Sharu Chigpa | February 26th, 2011 | 3:11 pm

    I have not signed at the Chinese embassy like Lobsang Sangay agreeing as a Chinese national and so has all Tibetans like me not signed like LS did. LS voluntarily signed that he is a Chinese national and how is it possible that we have a person who has openly and willingly accepted to be a Chinese national to lead Tibetans who are 100% against such move. I am dead sure that every freedom loving Tibetans will not vote a Chinese to be our Kalon Tripa.
    But you, Divana of LS, can agree to this because you seems more Chinese than a Tibetan, a sincere running dog of Chinese govt. Poor you!!!

  128. Tsenthar Gyal | February 27th, 2011 | 4:08 am

    I am really confused on the issue you guys are talking. In my view truth matters a lot if one is keen to lead the people at a high position. Now the tibetan leaders have blended with the dirtieness of politic if this is true. I hope anyone in this circle would justify this issue clearly without partiality. ok.

  129. kyab | February 27th, 2011 | 4:18 am

    One of my teachers used to emphsise on the importance of being truthful at any cost. Due to this influence i regard the truth as our soul which hold our life. So i urge any tibetan who faith and hope are put by the mass would be truthful in any case. Especially being truthful is an issue of life and death in not shattering the hope put on you. ok

  130. Gyakhab Rangzen | February 27th, 2011 | 5:38 am

    type “kalon tripa tnt!” on youtube. gud omen for tibetan people!

  131. sharmaptel | February 27th, 2011 | 11:20 am

    I believe Lobsang Sangye is a poor choice for the Tibetan people. The youth appear as if they are being confused by charisma, passion, and campaigning when the real questions should be of insight, experience, and capability. Lobsang Sangye is not qualified to lead the Tibetan people. There is no need to assassinate, his, or anyone’s character. But instead of getting caught up in waves of passion and hope, I urge the Tibetan people to make a careful and calculated selection based on credentials, rather than this distorted emotionalism that sometimes sweeps the political climate awry. What if His Holiness the Dalai Lama dies soon? Do you really want your entire nation represented by a young man, with no experience, who though highly intelligent, is completely unprepared to lead a NATION? The rise of Lobsang Sangye goes in my book with the railroad in Tibet, mass Han immigration, the sacrifice of Rangzen as the real goal, the death of Takster Rinpoche, and other events as yet another nail in the coffin of the Tibetan nation. So go ahead – elect an inexperienced Tibetan intellectual with no viable governmental experience to lead a stateless refugee nation with very little going for it already. Instead of getting “genuine autonomy for chok-lha-sum” you’ll be lucky if you get partial, disingenuous semi-autonomy in the city of Lhasa. Forget about Rangzen. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, but it doesn’t mean the loudest voice is the one that should get your vote.

  132. daveno | February 27th, 2011 | 2:30 pm

    I believe TNT is a poor choice.Many are confused by the so called achievements and are not realistic on his potential with the obvious lack of formal training and education.The section of population that supports him with a hope that their agenda could take centre stage is being fooled by the manipulative few.The rise of TNT could mean a century in exile and demoralize todays youth.The tibetan as a race will extinct so comfortably that china needs no efforts.The past is a history to celebrate but not a guarantee for brighter future.

  133. Chinese Engineer | February 28th, 2011 | 1:48 am

    I’m always amazed when Tibetans debate amongst themselves on this blog. It’s like reading the special Olympics version of a high school debate team outing.

    I suppose facts and knowledge carry little weight when it comes to driving a rather trivial point across, even for people who supposedly value “truth” and “purity”.

    It’s actually quite an interesting case study, you know; how a trivial topic has polarized a significant segment of the Tibetan population, not unlike Sarah Palin in 2008, with both sides acting like morons.

    And then there’s the odd Indian butting in “urging” the Tibetan people to pick one candidate over the other… ludicrous.

  134. vote | February 28th, 2011 | 4:20 am

    if lobsang sengey wins, the govt of india will withdraw its support to tibetan govt in exile. this was in hindhustan times. he has long been under the survelense of IP, CID n CBI since his secret meetings with chinese secret agents in beijing.

  135. vote | February 28th, 2011 | 4:22 am

    chinese engineer, most people here are to win by any means. are not here to debate intellectually. ugly, sad n true like the fox channel. u r right.

  136. daveno | February 28th, 2011 | 8:50 am

    If TNT wins, 60% of Tibetan population will give up the HOPE.

    The perception of an individual is biased based on his limited understanding and inability to go beyond present.
    Everything is beautiful in its own right and factual circumstances.you are what the MF chinese are!

  137. Mongol Doctor | February 28th, 2011 | 4:25 pm

    He is traveled in OSC document means he is a Overseas Chinese.

  138. Sharu Chigpa | February 28th, 2011 | 5:19 pm

    Hahaha @Divana of LS…you said U R what the MF Chinese are! Helloooo, this MF Chinese also includes your LS okay. He is a Chinese by his own choosing. So now are you against LS and calling him an MF!!! Good for you!

  139. GELEG | February 28th, 2011 | 7:29 pm

    #133 Chinese Engineer.

    Sharma Patel #131 is as much an Indian as you are an Engineer and a Chinese one at that…..or NOT?
    In any case you are always welcome to butt in with your ‘high brow’ comments; after all we live in a society where there is freedom of speech and debate even on political issues.

  140. Chinese Engineer | February 28th, 2011 | 8:41 pm

    freedom of speech is not a license for committing acts of blatant stupidity. There is no value added to discourse amongst idiots. This runs true for any situation in any race at any time.

    The problem with populist and consumer driven “democracy” is that the system caters to the lowest acceptable denominator (at least during the election phase), and I think we can both agree that this is far from ideal.

    Let’s look at this LS issue. Ultimately, I would think the primary electable attribute of any politician is if he can benefit his constituents. So how do you measure this trait? I would think intelligence, charisma, and international experience are right at the top of the criteria list.

    But instead of taking a systematic approach to evaluate the candidate, we have this pissing contest going on here over whether the guy should be allowed to run because he flew to China on an Overseas Chinese visa.

    So it seems the paramount fear is that if elected, PRC can claim that TGiE is run by a Chinese national, thus it should belong to China. But who really cares? According to your position, Tibet has unquestionable legal rights to self determination. Well, if that’s the case, no amount of ethnic change in the leadership can cause that legal vantage point to erode.

    Politics is dirty business, and you don’t get ahead without a few skeletons in your closet. If you want to succeed in your endeavors, you need to be practical, and that means getting rid of the naive assumption that honesty is the best policy in every situation; it’s not. It’s simply a game theory outcome perpetuated by adults to keep their parental roles more manageable.

    Remember, PRC didn’t become what it is today by clinging to ideology; Deng Xiao Ping famously said that it doesn’t matter if the cat’s white or black, as long as it catches mice. I think this sentiment is sourly missing in a lot of people here.

  141. GELEG | February 28th, 2011 | 10:39 pm

    Chinese Engineer:

    LS’s travel to China on an OCN visa is certainly a valid point for debate.
    We’re not talking of a regular Tibetan but a potential would- be- Tibetan Prime Minister in Exile.

    This reminds me of the outraged Indian officials from the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh on being issued ‘stapled’ visas for their visit to China (for talks over the border issue). My understanding is that applying for one such ‘stapled visa’ would be acknowledging that your home state was part of the greater motherland China.
    So there is certainly a ‘delicate’ nuance here….of semantics, ideology and more.

    The ancient Chinese philosophy & way of life is known for it’s pragmatism; and is quite admirable in many ways.
    But really is there much to be admired in the way the PRC came and held onto its power by the same quality of ‘pragmatism’?

  142. Rewalsar | March 1st, 2011 | 4:10 am

    The Katri candidates are all alike and it doesn’t matter whoever wins, because nothing is going to change during their tenure.

    As had been doing for years, Tibetans will hope and pray. Do prayers and recite millions and millions of mantras. Perform flowery rituals and ceremonies and say nice and emotion-laden words to attract aid.

    These things will continue. They will put hope in Amirika, thinking that it can threaten the PRC.

    Uless Chinese people rise against its government, nothing is going to change.

    Relax, guys. I would simply close my eyes and put cross on any one of them, if I think I must vote.

  143. Gyakhab Rangzen | March 1st, 2011 | 5:43 am

    ASK CHITHUE CANDIDATES THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS. THEY CANNOT IGNORE OUR CALLS!

    direct me to the link for list of prelim chithues from gyabhodruk. i need to catch them with the following message i sent to na n euro chithues. 1 responded with answers. 3 responded with no answers. norbu tsering n dekyi choeying not yet responded. no response from LS.

    “”””””hi!
    i am glad to see you as a chithue candidate. however, i like to have a direct glimpse of your stance or views to my specific questions here. i very much appreciate your response. it means a lot to me. pliz dont direct me to your site. time consuming! brief answers fine. thnx. we as voters need to know your mind, not your “explanations” to influence our mind!
    1. independence?
    2. multi party or bi-party system?
    3. Separation of religion from politics or abolishing the current cholog seats?
    4. One person one vote system?
    5. Opposition party?
    6. population/residence based voting/representation system in lower house?
    7. equal provincial representation in upper house?
    8. based on our history of pre 59 tibet n in exile, what are the 2 issues that could set us against each other, esp after hh is gone, with uncle china laughing the last laugh?
    9. which is MORE important, gud system or gud men?
    10. isn’t secular party system the best antidote to negative regionalism n sectarianism apart from practising democracy in totality? if not, why not? if yes, why are you not vocal about it?
    11. when will we let go this “unique exile situation” excuse?
    i am thankful for this page where i can interact and learn from informed folks like you for the expansion and solidification of ideas related not just to election and exile stuff but our cause as a whole. i hope our fb friendship will continue even long after chithue climax! your ma level education is gud, your love to serve is even better, your experience is grt! your english, articulation, performance and humility are all beautiful. i believe you have the courage and integrity to speak up for your inmost conviction. i hope you will not find any excuses not to bare your political views to us concerned voters on core issues. thank you.

    regardless of your takes, best of luck! “”””””

    pliz send to all chithues similar message on fb so they get better sense of wat change we are looking for. that is ofcourse if you agree with my stuff!

  144. daveno | March 1st, 2011 | 8:34 am

    GR my Friend,

    Good questions!

    7 of them are pretty much related to one thing.

  145. tsering topgyal | March 1st, 2011 | 6:18 pm

    None of the candidates are perfect and each of them have their strenght and their weakness.

    The attacks that Dr.Lobsang Sangay has faced for the most part have been petty and has not contributed in anyway to a healthy debate on the platform of the candidates.
    I find it disturbing that Dr.Sangay has faced the brunt of the attacks when a person like myself could easily quote a dozen cases of folly by one of the other candidates. I choose not to because it has no impact in the role of a Kalon Tripa.
    Now if we want to find a perfect candidate with no flaws then a trek to the mountain caves may help.

  146. Khampa boy ! | March 1st, 2011 | 7:36 pm

    Jamyang norbu, you are always there to create some problem among Tibetan community i personally feel you are more chinese spy than Lobsang sangay , you even criticized our great leader His holiness , so now can you tell me are you not really chinese spy ? be honest at lease sometime before its too late to become mess our Tibetan society from present unity , if any burst happen future you will be the responsible Jamyang norbu.

  147. pelsang (facebook name snow lion) | March 1st, 2011 | 9:48 pm

    We Tibetans have the choice to live or die like decent human beings or live and die with shame and insult. We Tibetans will be wiped out from this earth if we follow middle way. I think middle way is an incomprehensible compromise. You may ask me why? Because if the Chinese accepts Rinpoche’s middle way to solve the Tibetan issue, the Tibetans’ sovereignty will be given away forever. The Tibetan language will be the second language under the Chinese law. We the Tibetans will become the indigenous people from the American continent who have lost their culture, language, and identity. The Chinese has been immigrating millions of millions of Chinese into the Tibet, and We Tibetans will be terminated like some Parkour’s dog. (Dogs around the holy temple in Lhasa, all dogs were killed by the Chinese when they got firm grip on Tibet) We can die as a decent human being. Why we accept the middle way and die as Chinese dogs? Beside, our offspring will be shamed of what we have done in our generation if we accept middle way approach to sign the paper with the Chinese. Our offspring will think that we did not fight for independent, and tried to sell ourselves to the Chinese. We have been listening to some pessimists’ indoctrination, so we have lost the spirit to fight for our independent. I consider Rinpoche as my spirit leader, but this is exceptional matter how we as Tibetan die and live as a nation, and how we give inspiration or shame to the next generation, so I can not and should not follow his way to surrender my Tibetan dignity to the communist Chinese. There is a reason why there are many Tibetans outraged when they read the history of Tibet because the history not only teach us the truth, but also give us some incomprehensible results due to our leadership’ failure. I often asked myself in the past what we could do and had done differently so that we still have a little our own place to live with a decent live and dignity? One thing is clear when you read the Tibetan history that is compromise, compromise, again compromise, and more compromise. Some Tibetans question themselves why there were a very few intelligent and bravery Tibetans standing up against popular establishment’s compromises before and after the Chinese captured the Tibet? And after 50years, our offspring will ask the same questions to us? I do not think we Tibetans can not learn from our own history about own failures! I do not think we Tibetans want to live under the ruthless Chinese communist regime or any other forms of Chinese regime! I do not think we Tibetans want more compromises! Tibetans want and need independent Tibet only. If we do not take our country back soon, the Tibetans as a nation will be terminated from the world map; Therefore, I think all the Tibetan leaders should call for independent Tibet firmly and consistently.

    this article is for all my sleeping Tibetan Compatriots

  148. Pema | March 12th, 2011 | 9:34 am

    LS’s response are deceptive when ever tough question are asked about him.

    For instance he tries equate “Overseas Chinese” as Permanent Resident or Green cardholders. That is absolutely false.

    He dodges his total lack of community service by his occasional visit to Dhasa as his experience.

  149. sharmapatel | March 13th, 2011 | 9:37 am

    Chinese Engineer,

    I think I posted some time ago. I’m not sure what you’re doing on this forum. I expect you are likely not Chinese, represent some kind of agency, and are prying for information and small insights. Or you might just be a Chinese person who is educated to such a level that you have successfully refined your inborn stupidity to the level of moron-dom.

    btw….

    Whether I am Indian or not is irrelevant. I think it’s pretty clear at this point that “Sharma Patel” is simply the name I have chosen to use on this site. I could be Indian. I could be Tibetan. I could be Engi. Who the hell cares? I’m clearly not a Communist, so yes, I am better than you.

    COMMUNIST Chinese supporters are the most nationalistic, xenophobic, ill-educated, uncreative, midget wussies I have encountered in my life. They don’t qualify as men. They are just barbarian idiots. I have no respect for them. However, I have infinite respect for Chinese democracy activists in their courage to resist narrow-minded sociopaths who think power stems from their ability to imprison, torture, and murder anyone who disagrees with them. Chinese Engineer, you support a leadership of subhuman red devils. I would sooner save the life of a mosquito than any Chinese Communist…

    p.s. Lobsang Sangye still sucks, still has no qualifications, and still doesn’t deserve to be elected. But Chinese Engineer will only use this scenario to pry for more information, or to attempt to sow seeds of discord among the supporters of Rangzen. Personally, I think we need a little unifying activity. How about a contest. Who can make the best Chinese Communist jokes? Here’s my submissions:

    -How many Chinese does it take to sew a tshirt?

    Answer: Just two. One prisoner to do the sewing, and a Chinese policeman to beat the crap out of him every three seconds and yell “keep sewing.”

    submission number two.

    -How many Chinese does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

    Answer: Just one, but the cheap piece of crap still don’t work.

    submission three.

    -Did you hear that Hu Jintao supports women’s rights?

    Clarification: Yes, he thinks he should have the right to any woman.

    submission four.

    Why did Hu Jintao execute the mentally retarded Tibetan boy?

    answer: He got jealous when the kid beat him on an IQ test.

  150. daveno | March 13th, 2011 | 2:53 pm

    TNT sucks more than TW. He could not contribute a PURE tibetan to our struggle, talking about Rangzen like its Kuchuu’s icecream that anyone can buy it with a penny.
    IF you want to live in a dream world, your choice..please do…but dont drag our youngster into the that dream.I know its your bread and butter…but what would happen in future..atleast respect others lives and means to live happily.
    Chinese killed our brothers and sisters, but we lived under constant bullying of host nations for the last 50 years. There may be smile on my face,but my middle finger is UP for India and NEpal.

  151. Chinese Engineer | March 14th, 2011 | 12:21 am

    Oh Monsieur Patel, such eloquent diatribe. I do think your ad hominems need a bit more…variety, however.

    I haven’t really read something quite so reeking in its stupidity, although I think a bit of rhetorical deodorant could mask that particular problem.

    I come here to…for a lack of better words, break the monotony of my professional life. It is very rare to encounter people who are not fact and result driven in my occupation (at least not for any extended period of time), which is sometimes not very convenient because I find blatant stupidity to be oftentimes quite amusing. Since Tibet is a topic I take more than a passing interest in, I sometimes glance at this blog (despite the vast differences in perspective between JN and my lowly self, I do find his work much more stimulating than your run of the mill LibArt Free Tibet drone). And since the Rangzen crowd isn’t exactly the most rational, which is obvious given their goal, I know I will get a good dose of hilarious comments.

    But you, Monsieur, you are an absolute gem. You have somehow managed to condense stupidity and ignorance and xenophobia into such a pure and perfect package that I am in absolute awe of you. You truly are a paragon of the weakness of the mind.

    Keep up the good work, Monsieur.

    With the most eager anticipation

    Your No. 1 Fan

    Chinese Engineer

    ———————————-

    Jest aside, let me say that I am not in the employ of the Chinese government and I do not serve in any official capacity. My citizenship does not even belong to the PRC. Therefore your accusation of my trying to leverage some sort of negotiation is clearly false, considering that neither I nor the other patrons of this blog visit in any official capacity.

  152. Dell Boy | March 14th, 2011 | 4:01 pm

    First of all Jamyang Norbu seems to be obsessed with LS. Right from the time this election campaigns have started, he seems fixated on LS and keeps attacking only one candidate (LS) consistently.
    Secondly, he brings up the OCN issue for LS. So when TNT filled out his N400 forms for their US citizenship – they listed China as their birthplace. Does anyone mention that?

  153. Kalden | March 14th, 2011 | 5:25 pm

    This relentless attack & witchunt of LS is very sad, pathetic & very surprising. Perhaps JN feels jittery of LS’ rise to popularity & finds the later a direct threat… If not for this why would JN devote so much time & energy on raking up such an un-important/unecessary issue as this when it is a well known fact that LS has travelled to China with the full knowledge & blessing of the Tibetan Govt.-in-exile. And why would JN belittle LS by remarking laters visit to China as “umimportant as meeting some run-of-the mill Chinese academics(not great scholars)”

  154. Lhakpa | March 14th, 2011 | 6:59 pm

    kaldenla, I heard that you and your sis are in LS’s list of Kalon.Is that why you changed from critcizing LS( saying having Ph d at 40+ is no big deal and that your bro in law has some doctorate and knows nothing else besides his work. something like that remember?) now, you’ve become all gaga for LS because he promised you cabinet seat? is that so? educated people like you and so easy to be swayed? If this is not true then i am apologise but if its true then i am truly disappointed.

  155. Tashi | March 14th, 2011 | 7:07 pm

    Seems like LS is the only candidate who gets picked on repeatedly.
    How about JN write a blog titled – “The consequences of having a Tibetan PM with a non-Tibetan wife”. How about he writes about the effect it would have on our younger generation as a role model and on our ongoing efforts to preserve our Tibetan culture in exile!
    I doubt JN would attack his old Dharamsala Kudrag cronies!
    I doubt that the moderators would publish this comment of mine too – seems like this blog, TPR & Phayul are very pro-TNT and do not publish negative articles or comments on TNT BUT are trigger happy to do so about LS.

  156. Lhakpa | March 14th, 2011 | 8:18 pm

    hello, i am and have been supporter of TW right from the beginning. so dont think i am chamcha of JN or anything like that. I dont mind Tenzin Tethong but i dont like some of his supporters campaign style and I dont mind LS’s supporters because i understand where they coming from but really, its a mystery to me how they cannot see through that guy.If only he was a little different.

  157. Lhakpa | March 14th, 2011 | 8:29 pm

    And, yes, i appreciate the role JN played and continues to play in our tib society. We may not agree with him on everything but we should be glad that we have someone like him.

  158. daveno | March 15th, 2011 | 7:33 am

    HHDL said many times in the past that he will retire and is on semi-retire stage and has called in “YOUNG FELLA” to shoulder the leadership role. His recent passing of political authority to Kalon tripa is an ACT of Wisdom and something we should learn from.

    When i reach 61 and retire from the workforce, i will ensure all the TITLE of my ownership get passed to my children so that my children does not suffer or had a painful process to go through in the natural event.And to follow the Buddhist way by not CLINGING to any worldly attration at the time of changing cloth.

    TNT and TW if they have any brain to catch HHDL act of wisdom and follow his steps especially when they both are showing the SIGN of that stage.

  159. NEWGENERATIONTB | March 15th, 2011 | 12:23 pm

    @DAVENO: politics ruin people, even the good people. Politics ruined JN and his credibility is on the decline at such a fast pace, never imagined before. Regarding TNT, I think TNT forgot his Asylum papers and what he filled in it (Maybe his wife won the diversity lottery from Nepal and he just hooked up…who knows? Possibilities are endless!). At least TNT learn about “RACISM”, and I think he will include these most englightened subject in our exile school systems. Another 50 years down the road, pure Tibetans will 20% and movement will have almost at a fullstop, not because of the benevolent China, but because of TNT’s background. By then, only people who take interest int he movement will be 20% and they will lament and re-access why did we fell from the height of movement in 2011, the answeer will be that “section of Tibetans headed by TNT” promoted “non-racism” in public domain with an accuss that RACISM is bad for Tibet and our kids should be taught to cling to universal idealism and marrry whoever they want…….rest 80% of folks who is neither sheep nor goat, will not even give a damn to read about it and be concerned. By that time, JN and TNT, and all of US will be no longer around us. Is Rangzen achieveable? will still be continued……

  160. Skeptik | March 16th, 2011 | 1:36 pm

    Is that you, Phande Chow, under yet another online name? Palden Kyab aka Phande Chow aka NEWGENERATIONTB?

    NEWGENETATIONTB = new generation of tuberculosis.

    I’ve seen Phande’s comments on this youth facebook group, and it is filled with racist thoughts and demeaning attitude towards Tibetans.

    Don’t give him the time of your day. It’s better spent on something else.

  161. NewGenerationTB | March 16th, 2011 | 2:43 pm

    Om Ha Hum…Skeptics is a Buddha and Englightened One, he will save us from RACISM. Om Ha Hum…

  162. PASANG | March 16th, 2011 | 3:12 pm

    NewGenTib, how can you condemn it if any tib marry for love wheter its nepali, black, white or indian. It can happen to anybody, even you. I’m sure you have friends or know people who are married to other races. Did they go and on purpose seek out other races to marry? If that is the case then woe to them if not, then just accept it. 99% of the time thse people become tibetanised or their kids are brought up as tibetan.so why worry so much.

  163. daveno | March 16th, 2011 | 3:24 pm

    Po Passang,

    Why worry so much? Are you Tibetan?Do you listen to HHDL kachoe. NGenerationtib is concerned about loosing our “MERIG’.
    HHDL repeatedly urged tibetan on MERIG SHENGOG!

  164. NewgenerationTB | March 16th, 2011 | 4:31 pm

    @Pasang, I did not condemn anything anywhere. I just pointed out what kind of scenario will be faced by Tibetan Movement in the long years. In fact, on FB I declared whoever you love, marry, or whatsoever, is none of my business. Since we are talking about, I think I have the right to air my view regarding scenarios. All these bullshit about I am racist and condemning is actually hatching a plot to undermine whatever I say. For me, if I choose a Tibetan to marry for whatsoever reason and rfuse to marry any other races, does not make me racist. That how I live my life. However, my choise do in fact tremendously affect future of the movement.

    NG

  165. Skeptik | March 16th, 2011 | 6:00 pm

    Hey Palden aka NEWGENERATIONTUBERCULOSIS,

    Why don’t you worry about not putting out shitty, third-grade websites online, rather than worrying about how you’re going to save the Tibetan race by spreading your useless sperm around.

    http://www.oocities.org/palden_kyab/

    Good grief. No wonder you sound so frustrated. Where the ladies at?

  166. negenerationtb | March 16th, 2011 | 8:58 pm

    Good job, you did a good research. It was I made for my class assignment when I was in freshman. At thime, making website is like so esoteric to many. I just speent few hours to job in place. Lol…I never forgot it is still hanging in the air. I thump you for the research……don’t be threatened with my opinions. It seems like you are shitting in your pants when you read my opinion. I have no intention of going after who is who and who is writing what….

    NG

  167. gangchenpa | March 17th, 2011 | 7:23 pm

    From listening news, we have figured out that Samdong,among many conservitive people in Dharsa,is the key person who is distorting the will of the Tibetan people by saying that Tibetans inside Tibet do not want Dalai Lama to reform the political system of the Tibetan government in exile. The fact is that all the Tibetans in Tibet are fully understand the gesture of our leader is making in this critical moment and even a ordinary nomad in a remote region in Tibet know that it is time to make sure to leave a strong collective leadship for the people of Tibet after His departure.

    Many of us felt long before and currently firmly realized that the man named Samdong is harmful for the struggle of Tibetan freedom and he has been uttering a series of odd and dangerous statements such as he is only working for the sake of the Dalai Lama; Tibet is gaining international support is solely because of the personal chrism of the Dalai Lama; and he is not sure about the history of Tibetan independence and so forth. All his words and action are resembles to the Chinese propaganda which are totally non sense and they have caused serious political chaos and misunderstanding among the people both inside Tibet and in exile particularly.

    It is the right time to wipe out such a square minded old monk into the historical trash and to shed new light and energy to the Tibetan polity in exile in order to move the battlefield for the justice, dignity, and freedom for the people of Tibet beyond the small village of Dharamsala.

    We must be unified under the flag of HHDL and follow the leadership lead by our new Katri Dr. Losang Sengy.

  168. newgnerationtb | March 18th, 2011 | 2:41 pm

    Majority of people in Tibet do not know the existence of TGIE, but they do know existence of Gyalwa Rinpoche…..

    NG

  169. gangchanpa | March 18th, 2011 | 8:45 pm

    Newgnerationb,

    How do you know the majority people in Tibet do not know TGIX? I think you must be someone lives outside Tibet with nomadic origin in a remote area of Tibet,Bangga in Nagchu or Bangda in Kham, or Golog in Tshongon.

    The majority people of Tibet inhabitate in a more collective society and there are many well educated people in the region so that they are not only forgotten their history but also more aware of what is going on with their social and political lives.

    I am living in Tibet and it is hard to find someone who do not know Tibetan goverment Gadan Phodrang in India and all the people in Tibet in deepdown worry about what will happen after Dalai Lama and so forth.

    Therefore,I appeal to these who did not get proper education while they were in Tibet and not well versed with Tibetan history and reality not to make bold statement without knowing anything about Tibet beside Tsampa and Yark. Please think twice and make sure it is right and be carefu before you make any points.Thanks.

  170. dawa | March 19th, 2011 | 7:46 am

    Lobsang Sangyi should not give example of Tibetan people who had visited Tibet.Any one who had visited Tibet on OC paper were wrong and he should accept it. Clarification doesn’t make you clean. He should not encourage other Tibetans to go to China on OC paper.

  171. daveno | March 19th, 2011 | 7:00 pm

    Thank you..Goblok ambun (webmaster) and JN,

    ba bye!!

  172. tsering | March 21st, 2011 | 4:31 am

    Jamyang Norbu has never been to Tibet, and will never untill CCP leaves Tibet by itself.
    He always shows how he is patroitic by respecting history. In fact he has no courage to be in jail as other Tibetan have been doing by now.
    What a hero on in words he is!

  173. nyima | March 21st, 2011 | 4:40 am

    Jamyang Norbu is only an American Tibetan. He is not a Tibetan anymore. With his cityzenship of America, China won’t threaten him, but he is coward to visit Tibet, even with US passport.
    Don’t be a hero in US, just go to Tibet and prove yourself.

  174. gangchenpa | March 21st, 2011 | 2:21 pm

    do not complain about Jamyang Norbu, we know he is coward and the reincarnation of the Tibetan wise man and joker, but it is alright that he is doing what he can. If every one does something whoich he or she capable, then there is hope for Tibet no matter what citizenship they have. One thing I am sure is that JY and many others will not go back to Tibet and live there after Tinbetan got i=her independent.It is right that we Tibetan do not need double heads people we have and will have more decent people then.

  175. gangchenpa | March 21st, 2011 | 2:22 pm

    I mean the reincarnation of Aku Donpa

  176. Dokpa | June 27th, 2011 | 10:52 am

    Dear JN,

    The election is over, yes?

    Yes, LS went to China on a Paper. If you accuse him of anything or raise suspicion of something fishy do you have the resources or any plans to “go to the bottom of it”?

    If you put the seed of suspicion in people’s head, do you know what would it turn into? May be you know traditionally people feed on gossip and hardly anyone do any research or maintain of level of ” I don’t know yet”

    Shall we give LS a chance to do his job? Give all our support, not drag his feet or muddle issues. Lets be a good opposition. Attack or support as issues come along.

    Long live Tibet

    Dokpa

  177. Dokpa | June 27th, 2011 | 12:35 pm

    Dear JN,

    Is election over yet?

  178. Dokpa | July 28th, 2011 | 4:47 pm

    Hi all,

    Patient Name: Tibet

    Doctor’s Name: Tibetan youths

    Diagonosis: Loss of Homeland, Destitute, scattered feeling with no objective in sight, hallusination ” If I take of my family, all my life’s problem will be solved”

    Medication: Violence ? Middle way path ? Local remedies?

    Intervention: Doctor to implement or administer the medications.

    Prognosis: Freedom or Autonomous regions within few years if the Doctor implements the remedies with unity and with intensity. Action !!!!

    Dopka

  179. mehmet | June 23rd, 2014 | 10:34 am

    I am very much shocked to see this news and feedbacks. it seems quite normal for our Tibetan friends when their leaders and activists who are acting on their behalf pay visits to China even with Chinese papers.

    for us, as an Uyghur activists, there is strict rule put in place to travel to China even you are holding foreign passports,
    if you are member of leadership group, you have to wait at least 3 years after you have completely disconnected from the Uyghur organizations you have worked for.
    also our community is very sensitive and not welcomed any one who visited China as Chinese government could use all tactics to ” buy people” with tricks and conspiracy.
    Mr. Sangai can not survive politically and morally if he was an Uyghur activist.
    I am

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