In a media season dominated by stories of geriatric, lunatic and other sundry leaders-for-life (and family members) ignobly clinging to office like old chewing gum, the Dalai Lama stepping down from his position of (albeit modest) power, over the genuine and ubiquitous appeals by Tibetans for him to continue, was, of course, received favorably by the world media. The official Chinese press was predictably skeptical. Yet its disdainful speculations were hardly more credible than the suggestion by TV funny man Conan that the Dalai Lama had been prompted to step down on hearing there was an opening in the CBS series “Two and Half Men.”
I called up a couple of old official acquaintances in Dharamshala who are better informed on Tibetan politics than most. They dutifully endorsed His Holiness’s decision but did not seem too happy about the timing of the announcement nor the absence of any official or unofficial consultations regarding the process.
His Holiness’s statement came, quite literally, on verge of an election for a new prime minister. Everyone in the Tibetan world had assumed that this particular election was going to be for the same office of kalon tripa or prime minister, as we had had before. This office was one whose main responsibility, as the outgoing PM, Samdong Rimpoche, had earlier described, was “to carry out the wishes of the Dalai Lama.” No one had thought they would have to vote for someone to actually replace His Holiness as a political and national leader.
Common sense suggests that the announcement should have been made at least a year or two earlier so that people could have prepared themselves to elect a political replacement for the Dalai Lama. Or, the announcement could have been made some time after the elections when the Dalai Lama had gotten to know his new prime minister and cabinet and could judge if they were capable of taking over his political powers, or at least serving as an interim government to prepare for the elections of a new national leader. To be fair, His Holiness had on some earlier occasions talked of retiring, but such general speculations made to the Western or Indian press are clearly very different from an official announcement of an actual and imminent decision to retire.
His Holiness’ announcement has been deeply unsettling for Tibetans in exile, and perhaps even traumatic for Tibetans living under Chinese oppression for whom He is the living symbol of their hope for freedom. The current Prime Minister, Samdong Rimpoche, attempted to explain to the Tibetan public that his administration had repeatedly requested the Dalai Lama not to step down.” His exact words were “We have been urging His Holiness not to give up the political leadership.” But he admitted that it was to no avail. The exile Parliament immediately convened and passed a resolution urging his Holiness not to retire. But on March 19th at a public gathering, His Holiness rejected the resolution by the Tibetan Parliament and declared that he stood firm on his initial decision to resign. And he sounded very final about it.
So what can Tibetans do now?
On December 18, 2007, Phayul.com published an article of mine “The Jewel in the Ballot Box“, which I wrote in response to an earlier such statement by His Holiness’s about retiring and about seeking new ways to select a future incarnation of the Dalai Lama. In the article I laid out, in some detail, a possible solution to, yes, this very crisis Tibetans are facing right now. I described how the Dalai Lama could retire from the day-to-day task of being the political leader of Tibet but yet, retain a symbolic leadership role which would ensure the continuity of the Tibetan governmental system and also stabilize, and I believe even strengthen, the present structure of Tibetan governance in a genuinely democratic manner.
For details readers should go through the original article on Phayul.com and also on my blog Shadow Tibet where I re-posted it a couple of years later. I’m just going to reproduce an excerpt here:
But no matter how important we Tibetans may regard the institution of the Dalai Lamas, and would like nothing better than to see it continue unchanged, His Holiness himself has, on a number of occasions, made it clear that he would like to retire. Constitutionally this might create a problem since Dalai Lamas are not appointed or elected, so the question of retiring should not really arise. The Dalai Lama’s position is not even like that of a king, who does not become one until his coronation. Rather, the Dalai Lama’s is a lifetime job. He is born a Dalai Lama, and it is assumed that he is one even if the search party hasn’t yet made it to his village and found him. Even in his minority when he does not have the authority to skip a calligraphy lesson, he is still the Dalai Lama. Being the Dalai Lama does not seem to require that he have actual political powers.
And this is where I can begin to make out a single overall solution to these numerous problems that Tibetan society now faces: of His Holiness wishing to retire, of searching for a new Dalai Lama, of maintaining the tradition as the people in Tibet would want it, of countering Chinese efforts to control the reincarnation process, and of maintaining unity in exile society till the next Dalai Lama returns to his people.
The Dalai Lama should not retire and should remain head of state, but he should modify his role to that of a constitutional one like the King of Thailand’s. In this way His Holiness need not be burdened with the routine problems of government or with the unpleasant squabbles and strife of political life, but still retain a constitutional role to advise perhaps even arbitrate, in the case of a major national crisis. Political power should rest entirely with the Tibetan people, as His Holiness has repeatedly said was his intention.”
I think the exile parliament and the cabinet made a mistake by requesting His Holiness to completely reverse his decision and continue to assume his role as the political ruler of Tibet – exactly as before. We all know His Holiness is very strong-minded and not amenable to reversing or changing a decision after he has made it.
Hence, if I may offer a suggestion, the Tibetan cabinet or parliament, or both together, should once again approach His Holiness and inform him that they now understood and appreciated the fact that His Holiness had carried the enormous political and administrative burden of the Tibetan nation for over sixty years and that it was more than timely for him to retire from political office. Then they should follow up that statement with this request that in order to ensure the continuation and eventual success of His Holiness’s legacy of democratizing Tibetan society, he should assume just the symbolic role of head of state, which would not encumber him with burdensome duties or responsibilities, but help to bring stability and continuation to the democratic process.
They should present this as a compromise solution to the current crisis, in keeping with Holiness’s own Middle Way approach to political strategy. I think that His Holiness, in keeping with his philosophy of moderation and compromise, could not refuse this middle-ground solution, if presented in a completely genuine and sincere way by ministers and members of parliament, and not as a ruse, a roundabout way, to get him to rescind his earlier decision.
If we are unable to convince his Holiness of the need for him to accept the role of a titular or constitutional head of state, I am afraid that, going forward, the government-in-exile will face a number of constitutional, perhaps even existential problems. Some of these will most certainly prove to be damaging to the national struggle itself, even within Tibet. I am not a constitutional scholar so any corrections or additions to the few points I am raising below would be much appreciated.
1. If His Holiness resigns from office as he has announced, we would have to change our system of government fundamentally. We cannot maintain our present parliamentary and prime-ministerial system if we do not have a separate head of state. In a parliamentary system like ours there is a clear differentiation between the head of government and the head of state, with the head of government being the prime minister and the head of state often being a president (as in India or France), a hereditary monarch (as in Thailand or Britain) or representative of a monarch as a Governor-General (in Canada or Australia).
Hence it is necessary for His Holiness to remain at least as the titular or symbolic head of state, if we are to continue with our present system of government, otherwise we would have to elect a separate figurehead president as we have in India, or change our system completely to a presidential system as in the United States.
2. Then there is the more important question of legitimacy. Our present exile government had its genesis on the 29th of March, 1959, when the Dalai Lama made a formal proclamation at Lhuntse Dzong establishing the legitimate government of Tibet (which subsequently became the government-in-exile). The proclamation (reproduced from Tsepon Shakabpa’s great history) clearly states that “…the re-founding of the independent Ganden Phodrang government, with religious and political authority, has been undertaken in the Yugyal Lhuntse Dzong.” The proclamation also noted that the two former prime ministers of Tibet, Lukhangwa and Lobsang Tashi who had been forced to resign from office because of Chinese pressure had been officially reinstated.
This proclamation was read out to all government officials, soldiers and populace assembled at Lhuntse Dzong. Copies of the proclamation, signed and sealed by His Holiness, were sent to district headquarters all over Tibet. The traditional investiture ceremony was conducted by the Dalai Lama’s two tutors, and such traditional dances as the Droshay, or the Dance of Propitious Fortune, performed by the people. In My Land and My People, the Dalai Lama writes that the proclamation was made to counter the announcement by the Chinese that they had dissolved the Tibetan government in Lhasa.
And this claim has been maintained ever since. The government in exile was not merely the administrative authority for Tibetan refugees but also the true government of Tibet. Hence the name Ganden Phodrang (or Joyous Palace) was kept, along with the old seal, but most important of all, its sovereign head, the Dalai Lama. Without these the claim of the exile-government to represent the legitimate government of Tibet, a claim that is hard enough to maintain internationally even with his Holiness at present, would be impossible to establish in the future. Even the fact of the exile-government being elected would merely make it the elected administrative body of Tibetans living outside Tibet.
3. Then there is the matter of Tibetans inside Tibet. The two most recurring slogans shouted by demonstrators in Tibet have been “The Dalai Lama must return to Tibet” and “Full Independence for Tibet.” I don’t believe that this pairing of the two demands is merely a coincidence. For those Tibetans struggling to survive, day after day, year after year, decade after decade, under the unrelenting and pitiless tyranny of Communist China, the Dalai Lama is not only a religious “tsawae lama” or “root guru” (of which there are many great ones in the Tibetan world). For Tibetans in Tibet he is unquestionably and preeminently the sovereign ruler and living symbol of a free and independent “Land of Snows” – a land to which they stubbornly believe he will surely return one day.
Jamyang, let us hope that your insightful suggestions are heeded, as the potential instability and erosive factors you highlight will not serve Tibet’s rightful cause for independence.
Mr. word Khampa…… your views are acceptable to many youths in exile but the question is who can really take forward and lead Tibetans in HH absence.
I just read on Phayul.com that ‘Constitutional Amendment Drafting Committee’ has been formed. The members are Penpa Tsering, Samdhong Rinpoche, Dolma Gyari, Thupten Lungrik and Pema Jugney.
Some people might think that this change hasn’t come soon enough but I am concerned about the unusual ‘enthusiasm’ (for lack of a better word) that this parliament is displaying. First of all timing of HHDL’s announcement is a little bit off I am sorry to say. We have a new Kalon Tripa and a parliament coming in matter of weeks. We don’t know the composition of this new parliament and Samdhong Rinpoche is surely not going to be the Kalon Tripa. Amendment of constitution is not a quick-fix job that can be decided among five people in five days. This process may take months and years and I am wondering if this committe has plans to consult with the experts and intellectuals of the diaspora. Personally I would like to see JN la in that committee. This committe should wait till the new Katri and Parliament has been announced.
Damn, first I used to recall that all the so called die-hard rangzen warriors fanning the flame of having no real democracy in exile and blaming him for the absolute obstacle in your rhetoric goal of rangzen and democracy. Now, he truly wants to retire and all political decisions leave to public. I speculated that you guys might come out and lead…now again blaming HHDL. Maybe you guys need to go back and read your own argument about exile theocracy and devoid of true democracy or need to see a psychoanalyst. In any case, if HHDL is tied to TGIE in any way, it is not true democracy, so I totally support his decision and time at which it is made…..now the truth is, instead of shouting from distance, come to the front and lead, the battle ground is open……..you got absolute power to transform…you got absolute power to make decision to take war on China if you want to…..at least do something substantial…..writing does not serve any real purpose……
NG
NG
With your essay, the issue appears to have become far more complex than what the Dalai Lama himself have thought of it to be.
There is one very practical problem and that is the government of India’s position towards the exiled Tibetan government without the Dalai Lama. Government of India has given asylum to the Dalai Lama and not the government of Tibet.
Hi,Jamyang Norbu la,
For years,me,enthusiastic follower of your ideas(your revolutionary write ups).I thought and believed in that you are truly intellectual revolutionary in Tibetan society,next to Khewang Dawa Norbu la.
But, some times,it seems that you are forgetting where you hardly stood for last many years ,and will be led yourself in which direction.Let me remind some of your own articles that have written ” After the Dalai Lama”, “Waiting for Mangtso” and so on,,,,,And your great and innovative metaphorical Banyan tree of Tibetan society.
Today, you are saying “Then they should follow up that statement with this request that in order to ensure the continuation and eventual success of His Holiness’s legacy of democratizing Tibetan society, he should assume just the symbolic role of head of state, which would not encumber him with burdensome duties or responsibilities, but help to bring stability and continuation to the democratic process.”
Still much to say but pardon me to remind you some other things after my paper presentation in this week.
Gen Jamyang Norbu la,
It is sad to know that you are also the person who believe in the instability of Tibetan government in Exile and the inspiration of Tibetans after in the absence of Dalai Lama.
I am sorry to say that it is exactly what Chinese government has been chanting since 1959,,,,,
Rewalsar,
We don’t have to worry about the Indian government. If JN la’s proposal is adopted our government will still be effectively the government of the Dalai Lama. And in my opinion that should be the logical outcome of this exercise. We are only introducing some modification with respect to how power is distributed in our political system. The Dalai Lama will still be very much part of this system as the “head of the State” or “head of the Tibetan people”.
In my humble opinion, there are two main reasons why HHDL made this recent announcement. First is that he believes that in order for our system to evolve towards a more genuine democracy, which has been his goal his entire life, he has to devolve his powers to a democratically elected body. And I can’t agree more. Second reason has more to do with the timing of this change. He has to be convinced, while he is still alive, that through this democratically elected body, the Tibetan people can stay united and continue to pursue their ultimate goal of freedom for all Tibetans, without him playing the pivotal role; as he knows that there will be a time when the Tibetans will not have a actively ruling Dalai Lama once he passes away. It is wise of him to avail himself the opportunity to test our ability and the international responses to this change, which will be a major factor in deciding how he will reincarnate.
Now it is up to the Tibetan people to show whether they can stand on their own feet.
I am sure you are familiar with the Tibetan saying, “Chu mayong ghong ne rakh, kyen mayong ghong ne doring”.
ONLY WISE CAN UNDERSTAND JAMYANG NORBU!
THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST JAMYANG LA ARE DOING EXACT SAME THING AS THE CHINESE COMMUNIST GOVT HAS BEEN DOING– MAIMING, SHISHIING, AND IMPRISONING THE INTELLECT.
YOURS AGU.
Another political gimmick by JN la, he can’t seem to resist any opportunity to capitalise on any chance that comes by and then project in ways, which are not necessarily true. In any case, I do not agree with many things in this piece. But have given up on him for some time now.
Agu,
If you write wise that doesn’t become of you and simil alike in that category. Jamyang la is an intellectual but that doesnot mean we have to beleive in everything he says , I beleive every one has a faculty of thinking and refuiting if what he write seems incoherent and out of track. It is very easy to label such and such ….If you don’t use your reasoning then you are very far from being WISE!
To
JNL & AGU TONPA,
Some of notable Indian philosophers(I hope you knew although I didn’t mention) were being mocked by plethora of intellectuals while they perpetuated themselves in 1930s(Showed their excessive fake loyalty toward Gandhi)in order to get the popularity among the Indian people.Later,they came to know that they were getting lost in the middle of no where.
You must know that I am not encouraging you to stand against the Dalai Lhama,but,I am reminding to remember what you claimed and attempted for so many years as a writer with certain vision of his own.
It is possible that you are afraid of Zamdhong Lhama’s critical speech on 52th anniversary of Tibetan democracy(directly attacked on you)and recent speech in parliament.Let me ask you,are you the member of Tibetan Gorila war(sorry if wrong spelling)who even decided to die for the sake of Tibet.
If you are losing your believe in Tibetan youth’s inspiration and their dream of freedom.Please don’t look at your feet tips only.We,new generation of Tibet,ready to take any responsibility at any time,,,,,,,
Here it seems, someone is a bit worried that Lobsang Sangye might “replace the Dalai Lama”. This worry (if someone indeed is)is nothing more than the Tibetan saying “riwong namdhip gyi semdrel”. If this so happens, then perhaps Tibetans will abandon the government itself.
What is happening, in my opinion, is that the Dalai Lama is trying to build a true democratic system, a system that is competent enought to replace the Gandhen Photrang system. The Dalai Lama is down to the earth and what he says is what he means. Tibet must move forward (into the future, and not backwards (into the past).He knows this very well, and through his “wisdom eyes” he sees how he must teach Tibetans to set up such a system. He said on television that the existing system (which he surely means that of the Gandhen Photrang)is “not a good one” and is “outdated”.
So what is best for the Tibetans is to follow and put into practice every word (in this respect)the Dalai Lama has and is saying. If Tibetans keep in trying to be fussy (trying not to obey what he is saying), that would cost heavily as far as the future of Tibet is concerned.
His Holiness has spelled many a times that we must start planning for the days when he is not around. At this point in time we have the luxury of having him to fall back on when we start faltering badly. Our democratic administration has already learnt to crawl and has started to walk with small stumbles and is not yet on a steady stride. Lets be brave and learn to walk with a steady democratic stride so that HH will be proud and happy of realizing his long held vision.
Since the exile government is not recognized by the world at large, we are bound to call it The Central Tibetan Administration in Exile. The exile Tibetan community needs an administrative bureau to look after their welfair. This is a politically correct name that goes with policy of Middle Path.
Now the charter of the exile Tibetan community must be revised to reflect true democratic credentials. This must be truly secular based on head count with no extra priveledges what so ever.
In short, during my a half century and a dozen years of life, I have never lost my faith in His Holiness both as a spiritual and temporal leader. After my intial shocks of hearing of His Holiness devolving his political power, and listening to his untiring explanation and reasonings and thereby trying on my own to analyze the political reality and unleashed potentiality of HH to benefit the world at large, I am convinced that HH is embarking on a rather much larger mission. As for me I am convinced and it is upto all Tsampa devouring Tibetans to decipher the reality.
I am not very acquainted with the debates going on but if its true that HH is also not going to remain atleast the symbolic head or titualr head as JN as mentioned here. then there really might arise the huge question of legitimacy. especially of the people in Tibet and who knows amongst the people in exile too.
This is a good news for tibetan to celebrate, the day of the beginning of a complete democratic system.There are many far reaching consequences if tibetan could not accept challenges of this decision.
There are times in history of any nation that certain action or decision that otherwise would never have been taken by religious/spiritual individual have proven successful.
Thank you Jamyang la for this piece.
In a recent interview His Holiness made a comment ‘ even if I am retired ,as a Tibetan I have my right to voice my opinion’.
His Holiness does have a right to voice his opinion but it may be at the expense of undermining the Kalon Tripa or the Government in Exile.
From Berbers of Africa to Bedouins of Arabia change is sweeping across the world.What is inevitable cannot be avoided. We tibetans should honour this responsibility that H.H. has charged us with. I for one am pretty optimistic that we the public will face up to the challenge and show ourselves to be self-reliant,innovative and ready to stand on our own two feet!
Just hope that the jasmine revolution takes root in China…’let a hundred flowers bloom……
In my opinion,this decision has sent a strong message to Peking leadership that they are hopeless student under a compassionate teacher and that they should now learn through the hard way or the human way.
The end of the 2011 is the beginning of a dark political period for peking’s leadership.Peking has not just Tibetan itching to deal with,they have many small wounds to deal with.Proper coordination amoung the wounds can open channels for virus to kill that communist regime forever.
What is there to be happy about to live our lives when the future genes of phatehur janjupsempa and maa draksemo will have no place on this earth to call home.It is wise to be the virus to kill the communist to bring happiness to our future genes.
his was posted probably as an April Fool’s joke on Elephant Journal Blog By a Benjamin Riggs…you think this is funny?
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Via Benjamin Riggson Apr 1, 2011The Last Twist In The Tibet-China Saga?
Things may not be as they appear.
This morning, while on a speaking tour of Europe, it was revealed that the H.H. the Dalai Lama was carrying a Chinese passport.
When asked why, the Tibetan spiritual leader seemed to be at a loss for words. All he said was, “I must be on my way.” He was quickly escorted out of the building by security, but detained by Interpol for further questioning.
A spokesperson for Interpol (Internal Criminal Police Organization) said, “The investigation is still in its infancy, but as of now, we know that the Dalai Lama was indeed carrying a Chinese passport, and his flight itinerary was under a false identity (Gyaltsen Rinchen) that had him landing in Beijing late Sunday evening.”
There is no doubt that the rumor mill is churning. The most popular theory has the Dalai Lama acting as a subversive spy for Hu Jin Tao and the Communist party. Many believe that Beijing may have been using the spiritual leader’s charisma and influence to spy on their Western counterparts.
As of now this is all speculation. Perhaps the Tibetan Government was working out a truce with the Chinese government, and wanted to keep the discussions under cover until something more tangible develops.
I will continue to cover this story as it unfolds: please stay tuned for more details.
I feel that the Dalai Lama’s announcement is backed by an ocean of inner wisdom that he inherently possesses. He is a man of great vision and to trust his judgement would be the implicit thing to do for all well-wishers of Tibet. It is now up to the new generation of leaders to take up the mantle of Tibet’s Homeland. Even through all the new terrain, His Holiness wil continue to guide, though not as explcitly…
This article is not bad, but it’s not like without Dalai lama Tibet will fall into debris. A secularleader will do a better job of politics. And, under the guidance of khewangs like Dr. lobsang Sangay, Tibetans don’t have to even breath an atom of insecurity.
“but it’s not like without Dalai lama Tibet will fall into debris”
Oh but it would fall very, very far. You of all people should understand that the office of the Dalai Lama is a political one as well as a religious one. To say that the Dalai Lama holds significant and centralized political power in the Tibetan realm is a vast understatement.
Thank you for this important and informative article – parts of which were written back in 2008 – once again ahead of the curve.
We should be so proud that His Holiness has come forward leading the process towards DEMOCRACY.
I would have to agree completely that the position of HH Dalai Lama be implemented as a SYMBOLIC HEAD of State. (Apparently Tibetan exile parliament has come out with the announcement that they are working along on those very lines.). This symbolism would serve to maintain a strong psychological link with the majority in Tibet; where ordinary rights and freedoms that we the ‘Elites’ outside Tibet consider the norm is denied them every single day. It is true that people from all the far regions of Tibet considered ( and still do) the Dalai Lamas the ‘Sovereign Rulers’ of the Nation.
But the “Seat ‘of the Dalai Lama is quite unlike other Sovereign Head of State. It is the great social equalizer. The Dalai Lama is reincarnated and not ‘inherited’.
The Editorial board of ‘Tibetan Political Review’ has also come out with very informative facts to get the ‘LEGAL’ aspect of the discussion going. I recommend their article as a useful tool for regular folks not too familiar with ‘legalese’ to get a head start with all the coming debates and discussions. . The simple ‘Flow Chart’ got my attention.
Sometimes the difference between survival and annihilation is significant and centralized political power. So I say hooray for it. There are plenty of 70 year olds watching the last speaker of their language die at this very moment, because they lacked that power. But fortunately that doesn’t describe Tibetan culture yet.
Retire now when one is of full mental capacity and will be around to advise and in a sense oversee the turbulent transition? I don’t know but it seems wise to me. The alternative is waiting until one is 113 and then having less ability to advise the transitional leaders. Why not “retire” now and be available to offer comfort and advice? I know the people in Tibet are disheartened, but isn’t it better to be disheartened now while HHDL is still around to continue speaking to the disheartenment, for them to see that life will still continue, and HHDL will still be speaking publicly throughout it all?
Sorry by the way to spout off on Tibetan politics again. I know it’s a private issue for the most part. But I just talked to someone from the tribe I used to work for and their situation is so sad (losing the language). The similarities of the situations struck me.
Tibetans must learn to pick up the fruits of Banyan tree by using their own hands. They must not always wait that fruits will directly fall into their mouth, as the three lazy men did in the in Indian classical story, “The Banyan Tree and the Three Lazy men”.
The Dalai Lama wants the Tibetans less dependent on him, and hence he is introducing a drastic change in the government system. Tibetan must respect his vision.
On the subject of Kundun’s resignation the discussion has attracted the attention of Mr. Robert Barnet http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/apr/06/dalai-lamas-deception/#
He offers an outline of historic episodes from Tibet in which the succession of the Dalai Lama was seemingly arranged to ensure a retention of political control and facilitate a trouble-free continuity to exclude external interference from either China’s Mongolian or Manchu rulers, both cultures having embraced Buddhism and eager to secure relations with the institution of the Dalai Lama.
The former part-time actor seems eager to elicit sympathy for China’s bloody regime by asking us to consider, that the recent decision by the Dalai Lama to retire, is thought by China’s regime to be a similar move aimed to prevent Chinese interference. He asks readers to ‘understand’ the position of China, its sense of distrust based on centuries of political history and occasions when the Mongolian and Manchu dynasties that ruled China were outflanked Tibetans, determined to prevent any foreign meddling in the succession between Dalai Lama’s.
Those who are familiar with Mr Barnett’s writing, and his troubling record of misrepresenting the nature of Tibet’s struggle, his long-standing denial and distortions regarding the forcible sterilization of Tibetan women by China’s coercive population control programme, will not be unduly surprised to note yet another article that peddles a barely disguised bias towards China. Occasionally the pseudo-intellectual guard is exposed and can glimpse crude propaganda of the sort engineered by China’s Xinhua agency. Take the following ‘gem’ asserted by Mr Barnet:
“When Mao briefly allowed Tibet almost total autonomy in the 1950s, it was probably in part because he knew from historians that it had never been a province or an integral part of China in the past”
What disinformation is this? It has echoes of other arch-China apologists Grunfeld and Goldstein and Shakya who chorus the line that Tibetans enjoyed some ‘golden age’ of ‘moderation’ following China’s annexation of Tibet. Not that the oppressed Tibetans took to the streets with tears of gratitude, having seen Mao’s jackbooted thugs trampling over Tibet and its culture!
Surely Mr Barnet is not suggesting Tibetans enjoyed a political freedom, or equates that with the autonomy experienced by the Scots, Basques or Catalans? Far from years of contentment sly suggested by his assertion, the decade he refers to was one of military tyranny, with cosmetic political posturing in Lhasa, while in Kham and Amdo Tibetans were being subject to ever increasing abuses, suppression and violent tyranny, hardly. Strange, how that reality was omitted in Mr Barnett’s piece.
I absolutely agree with comment no #4 written by newgenerationtb.
Answer him…
རྒན་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས།
དེ་རིང་ཁ་སང་གི་གཞོན་སྐྱེས་ཤེས་ཡོན་ཅན་ཚོ་ལས་སླ་པོ་མི་འདུག་ག གང་བཤད་བཤད་འགྲོ་ཡི་མེད་པ་གསལ་པོ་ཆགས་སོང་ངོ་། དགོངས་པ་མང་ཙམ་བཞེས་ནས་རྩོམ་ཡིག་གང་མང་སྤེལ་རོགས།
NG (no. 2 above).
Writing serves real purposes. Indeed.
(Or were you just wasting your time typing inconsequential stuff in this comment box?)
People,
First, Lets appreciate the fact that Jamyang la is giving this opportunity to write whatever we want- SOMETIMES OUTRIGHT HATEFUL COMMENT. So, don’t be surprise if he does that to anybody else. The only difference between the Haters and him is that Jamyang has a solid facts to prove his statement.
If any of his comments are contrary to what he’s been saying, then bring it up in a civilized way with rhyme and reasons. Don’t tell me read his previous articles, but tell me where and what he had written in the past.
Second, lets appreciate him and thank him for working/doing/speaking for Tibet for his entire life. His writing against the chinese, Pseudo Tibetologist like Goldsten and Stautman much need responds that only Jamyang la could do/ did that prompted response from them. His writing against our own people made us more vigilant of our own action and prompted Samdhong lama to respond albeit a whole length of video. More over Samdhong became more vigilant of his own action. No one but Jamyang la had kept those people on their toes.
After all, there is nothing that Jamyang la wrote that was factually incorrect and dismally poor analysis. His analysis were right on the bulls eyes. If you happen to read his early writings on the futility of the middle way policy, you will how visionary he is today. After over twenty years, we can see that middle way is good buddhist philosophy but not a pragmatic political solution.
#11 RAYMOND,
You don’t have to believe in what i pr JN have to say. Nobody was forced to believe JN’s view. You can believe in whatever you want: You can believe that world is flat and there exits mount meru. I have nothing to say anything against this. What i was saying was that only Wise CAN Understand JN’s Article more than the others.
#12 Darik Thokmey,
That notable Indian philosopher type person may be Samdhong Rinpoche and others like you but certainly not JN. JN doesn’t show excessive fake loyalty to HHDL. JN has loyalty towards HHDL in his heart but not in his mouth.
# 29 TD: No. 4 doesn’t make any sense. He doesn’t even know what exactly HHDL is saying. So, i ask both of you to study or try to understand what HHDL’s written and spoken words of his retirement.
We all agree that His holiness’ decision to devolve political authority is good for all of us in the long run. But having Gaden Phodrang to have nothing to do with Tibetan and Tibet is of practical problem for us. we are talking about two different things. HHDL can remain ceremonial head of the state like the queen of the england.
If you want to learn more about it, Please read TPR’s article or ask your friends. BUT DON’T GO-MATSOE-PA, LEPA DHAR-MA-DE.
IN THE END, LET ME REMIND ALL OF YOU, I AM REALLY PROUD OF OUR NEW GENERATION AND I AM SCARE OF NOBODY ELSE WITH DR. LOBSANG SANGYE AS OUR KATRI, BUT OF OURSELF.
IN ANTICIPATION OF MATURED DISCUSSION,
YOURS AGU TONPA.
#4 NEW GENERATION,
WHY DON’T YOU TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY? EXACTLY, IF WE GET THE CHANCE, RIGHT?
RIGHT NOW, IT LOOKS LIKE STILL GONNA BE THAT “LAR-GEN” WHO WILL HAVE A HUGE SAY AND NOT US OR FOR THAT MATTER JN.
LOOK AT THE COMPOSITION OF THE CONSTITUION REDRAFTING COMMITTEE…. THERE ARE ALL JOKES… VARANASI TEACHER AND HIS PUPILS FILLED THE REDRAFTING COMMITTEE. I BET ITS STILL GONNA BE SAME OLD, SAME OLD SHIT…
I AM SURE THEY WILL BE ONLY TWO SEATS AVAILABLE FOR THE RANGZENWALA AT THE NEXT UPCOMING GENERAL MEETING…..
TELL ME WHERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY? AFTER ALL, YOUR LEADER LS WILL TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY.. NO WORRIES!!!!!!!
Not all opportunities fall from the sky, we have to create the conditions necessary. Don’t wait for the chance to knock on your door. Make them!
Samdong Rinpoche is a Tibetan, a scholar and with 10 years of experiences–why not let him serve his nation in whatever way he wants, could ( if majority of the population wants his services).
If rangzen wala needs 50/50 , why not ask for it. I believe over 90% voted for middle way, so it cant be 50/50,after all democracy is a game of numbers.
LS will not take responsibilities unless you make him…YOU have the power to create your future.
Agu Tenpa once again hits the spot. He must be wise indeed. Lets see what they cook up next by this emergency drafting committee.
is samdong lama maneuvering to be the head of state? what is this meeting-selection controversy?
let’s abolish those 10 cholug seats n pave way for clean political democracy.
This opportunity fall from the sky or at least bestow upon us by HHDL rather unexpectedly. But then, Lar-Gen and his gang will prevent the much needed change.
The Norbu, there is reason why constitution limits a person to serve in political office even though people wanted to choose Samdhong. He’s had 10 years of “whatever way he wants” kind of governance and its time for a change. who were the people that were demanding “change” yesterday?
We need CHANGE, change of people in constitutional redrafting committee.
We need have younger people and scholars in the redrafting committe, not those politician.
CHANGE, CHANGE, IS OUR SLOGAN- STARTING WITH HAVING A YOUNGER AND SCHOLAR KATRI-TO SCRAPPING THE CHOELUK CHITHUS- TO- HAVE A YOUNGER GANDHEN TRIPA. IN A NUTSHELL, THROW AWAY OLD PEOPLE. HAHAHAHA. LONG LIVE LOBSANG SANGYE.
Dear Jamyang Norbu La,
Yours analysis is getting orthodox towards stinging establishment. I will come to the point right away..
1 ) Yours critical about the right time circa HH ‘s annoucement is too far politicized . Had HH has announced prior to the Kalon Tripa Election ( as you have suggested ), wouldn’t it be favouring a certain type of candidate than other? Perhaps certainly it would have favoured yours candidate ? I think HH did this purposely not to influence the “FREE” Election. I think HH is too far democratic and far sighted than many of ours hard headed intellectual. Yours short sighted reasoning about the critical time doesn’t withstand the far sighted coherent action of HH Dalai lama. You should have little bit of faith in tibetan people choice, all the tibetan people may not be too intelligent like you but I can assure you that we are not complete idoit ( kukpa ). I think we are reasonably a proud and sound people.
2 ) Another critical regarding HH’s drastical shift in to the nature of political incharge of Gaden Phodrang seems to have affect you negatively. What I can’t understand is reading through yours writing I thought for years that you are for more democratic system in our community. Now you and few others are covertly suggesting the authority of HH in deciding such a major change. I mean here it is happening exactly the opposite unlike in many part of the world where the leaders wants to be for ever clinged to their seat and power. I think HH is setting an example in our future leader and specially he is preparing us from right now to handle the worst outcome possible, of course we should hope for the best but be prepared for the worst as He always says.
3) Samtsul; In my opinion at this moment of our history , all the creams of the tibetan society
should be engaged in the critical and constructive operation rather than polemical and baised prepective. Only a small tip , avoid from the begining considering oneself The Only saver or as the last Wise man. I consider little bit of sound humility will let flow your opinion in a more objective and constructive way.
#32 Aku Tonpa lak,
I appreciate your in-depth knowledge about our government in exile. And of course i am very much proud of you… wishing you as my son. Anyway.. I have one question for you. Not very long before Jamyang Norbu la was very consistent in suggesting, covertly or overtly, that H.H Dalai Lama was indeed an impediment to the democracy in exile. We all witnessed his passion for complete demoracy besides revolution and Rangzen.
What happens to him now? Now he is suggesting the Dalai Lama to stay as the symbolic head of the exile government unelected. He should have envisaged all these things long before while penning his previous articles!!!
This is where we disagree… where I am so ignorant about!
With love
Ani Tonpa
before I too some times feel like because of HHDL and his position its very difficult to change things, but now i too feels sad if HH is not there to constatly guide and adivise us like a parent. I really feel wonder how other peoples who in the name of HH are always bashing people are so eager and enthused now. just my feeling o.k. its not easy being HHDL.
TD,
There is nothing new in Jamyang Norbu proposing that the Dalai Lama should remain Tibet’s head of state (and not “head of government” as you wrote); he mentioned this idea already in his article “The Jewel in the Ballot Box” (http://bit.ly/em3ybG) and it is one of the Rangzen Alliance’s three goals: http://bit.ly/gp8cKj
But it is maybe precisely because you don’t understand the difference between a head of state and a head of government that you are so confused…
Go the following Wikipedia’s page on “Head of state” and read through; I’m confident that after this reading Jamyang Norbu’s approach will make much more sense to you: http://bit.ly/8LH1MY
TD,
In particular, read the “Non-executive head of state” section on Wikipedia’s “Head of state” page.
JN is always have very negative attitude to Bhod Shung, I never saw any positive comment he made or make a suggestion in a cordial way. He is either outright negative or comment filled with negative meaning. This by no means I either dispute his scholarship in his respective field or deny his contribution in the rebuttal of western China apologist, or JN’s own term, running-dog-propagandists. JN once declared Exile Government is hollow democracy with a heart of theocracy where leaders are unelected. He clearly meant that HHDL is the real impediment for the progress of Tibetan democracy. Today, HHDL does not want to be the impediment, rather give back everything to the public. Again, HHDL is on the wrong side of history as per JN’s final solution.
If we are not careful, one day someone with all-I-know attitude comes into power, the TGIE will be den for the dictators where all other voices are labelled as either stupid or insignificant.
NG
With the change in the direction of the wind and to keep in line with middle way policy,the desolution of the gadhen phodrang in tibetan political world makes perfect sense.
It is much better for human to govern themselve.
“dissolution”
#44,45 Chritophe lak
I really enjoyed re-reading Jamyang lak’s some of previous articles. After going through his writings, i feel somewhat ashamed of being unable to write just a correct English. However, with this broken English, i am willing to argue with you… baby! hahha
Jamyang la writes in Waiting For Mangtso II:
Waiting For Mangtso, October 8 2009
“I am not saying that personalities don’t matter in politics. I am all for finding an honest and competent person to be the prime minister of our exile government. But first of all we have to put in place that one indispensable (but missing) institution in our incomplete democratic set-up, the lack of which makes the role of our current Kalon Tripa resemble that of a chanzoe (manager) of a monastery or labrang, and not the prime minister of a democratic nation.”
Jamyang Lak is actually comparing our Katri with the monastery manager… What does it mean?
And he writes: “Merely changing the members of parliament or the Kalon Tripa in 2011 will accomplish nothing.”
And it is quite popular that Jamyang lak once said; “The Dalai Lama is like a banyan tree under which nothing grows…”
INCONSISTENCY is the problem here!!!
More I go through the above readers’ comments, more I’m wondering how many of their authors really understand the implications of the Dalai Lama’s decision.
The Dalai Lama has left Tibet without a head of state and most Tibetans innocently believe that the job will naturally rest with the next prime minister. However, they don’t seem to realize that a prime minister cannot be, at the same time, head of government and head of state — except, of course, in some dictatorships or in transitory governments. Here, there’s unquestionably a big confusion about the meaning of both functions. For those who don’t get the difference by reading Jamyang Norbu’s post, please visit Wikipedia’s page on head of state (already mentioned above), the Tibetan Political Review’s editorial "The Shape of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile After the Dalai Lama’s Devolution of Power" and the subsequent response from Tsewang Norbu "Feedback to TPR Editorial on the Dalai Lama & Impacts of Devolution of Power."
Also, very surprisingly, no one seems to question the fact that the Dalai Lama, back in 1992, had written a quite different scenario. In his "Guidelines for Future Tibet’s Polity and Basic Features of Its Constitution" (one of the two documents that he recently declared "ineffective"), he had carefully mentioned the need of an elected president (as well as vice-president) to be Tibet’s head of state — the government’s executive power resting, however, with the prime minister and the Kashag. Why then such a sudden change? Why the Dalai Lama didn’t propose any alternative to his retirement, such as a presidential election as originally planned?
Those who accuse Jamyang Norbu of getting orthodox and laying down arms are either politically immature or displaying outright negativism towards his writings. The idea of having the Dalai Lama acting as a symbolic head of state, as he had outlined in his article "The Jewel in the Ballot Box", was a ground-breaking one for many even a few years ago. What is sheer naivety, however, is the "revolutionary" conviction that once all powers are in the hands of a prime minister — young preferably — everything will change for good.
TD,
Here again you are confused about terminology (obviously you didn’t visit Wikipedia as advised…). According to the Constitution of Tibet and to Prof. Samdhong, the Dalai Lama serves both as head of state and head of government. In a parliamentary system, this cannot be possible as the prime minister is supposed to be the head of government with all related executive power. Hence the "chanzoe" metaphor of Jamyang Norbu — entirely correct as long as the Dalai Lama was holding all power.
Now that the Dalai Lama has retired, the next prime minister will definitely act as the head of government, but as I wrote in my previous comment, he cannot act as the head of state. These two roles cannot be combined. As such, the idea of keeping the Dalai Lama as the head of state, but this time with a largely symbolic importance, is a rather sound judgment.
My question is: will HH accept if the Tibetan community in exile elect him head of state by means of a referendum?
Or must we go to the polls to elect a President and a Vice-president even if both the posts carry only ceremonial importance?
Why can’t HH carry on as a Ceremonial Head of state like the Queen of England or the President of India?
Or he remains the paramount leader of the Tibetan people without any formal portfolio?
In my opinion whether HH is offered any official title or not, he will forever remain the uncontested paramount leader of the Tibetan people. If so, why must we burden him and limit his dynamic reaches within the gamut of Tibetan political arena only?
Exactly! Head of the state as “ceremonial” could conform to the current system in practice in other countries.
However, we could do without and have a system that will fit to our situation. “Kha la pawai SO”.
#49 Chritophe lak,
Your comment “Hence the “chanzoe” metaphor of Jamyang Norbu — entirely correct as long as the Dalai Lama was holding all power.” implies that the Dalai Lama has been holding all powers during the ten-year tenure of Samdhong Rinpoche’s prime ministership. And at this point you are indirectly saying that the Dalai Lama’s semi-retirement statement was just a kind of bluff. And don’t forget that this Chanzoe sarcasm was directed against Samdhong Rinpoche!
And I have repeately made myself clear that my primary problem here is the inconsistency of Jamyang Norbu laaaaaaa’s view regarding Mangtso and Dalai Lama issue.
And what about Jamyang lak’s ‘Banyan tree’ master piece?
As to the issue of Dalai Lama’s retirement, I am listening right now! No comments! hheheh
Christrophy,
What’s your problem? Mind your business.Leave the Tibetans alone.
Do we really need to copy and paste either the french system or Thai system or Bhuanese system or English system as JN suggest? Absoultey not…..we can have our own version of democracy. JN’s suggestion of Tibetans must copy and paste these systems are absolutely wrong. The cultural context, social, political, and everything is different. Above-mentioned systems suggested by JN is that a figurehead who ruled those countries as KINGS who at times abused power and retained power through military might. As time advancing against themselves. They made a clever honourable exit in the name of transfering the real power and retaining the ceremonial power is kind of saving their onw name, honor, life, and so forth. If now, JN should give us a details about how these people or kings abdicate their powers? Rather than comparing the outfit, why not give us ins and out of political development forced them to do so. The Dalai Lamas of Tibet are not just a historical figure of king, beyong these worldly titles, he is a spiritual figure, manifested in human form for those Tibetans who believe in him. For the Dalai Lama, there is nothing to fear of his personal life (One of the guy in TPR called Tsewang Norbu suggested that devolution of power as right time to save kundun’s own fame…wrong wrong….living in the west, learnt nothing, but bunch of political gibberish and how to manipulate innocent and niave folks!). He never abused power, in fact, he has been like a gentle and compassionate father for those who lost verything, he designed the grand plan that Tibetans could able to rebuilt their cultural and political institutions in a land alien to us. He led us to rise like a phoenix…..he headed till date because Tibetans are not ready, now the time has come, and he envisioned it, and decided not to associated with the movement politically in any capacities, rather serve as an individual citizen, it should be inspiring us all and should do more than just crying and blaming him everything our own inabilities and incapacity. We need all the high minded and loud mouths folks in Dharamsala to do the real job….instead of living a lavish life in the west, writing few criticism as one is the only patriotic person in the world, nothing but a furt in the ocean. It is time to recheck ourselves…..
NG
What does “chanzoe” mean?
it means manager in monastery
This blog gives equal opportunity for those with a point of view, perhaps an axe to grind, a thought to be shared and even for the occasional ‘downright crazy’!
But guys you have to give credit to Chris La. He has been a consistent supporter of Tibet on this blog and we appreciate such support from our ‘friends’.
norphel,
christophe has been involved with tibetan independence movement since 1987. he was the only foreigner protesting with the tibetan demonstrators in the streets of lhasa that same year risking his limbs n life for tibet he cares. he is married to tibetan with 2 children who are tibetans. he is more tibetan than many of you here. so dont say shit to christophe and joe hamilton another tibet-truth supporter. norphel do us a fovor by going to hell never to return here. thank you with love.
Christophe lak,
Thank You very much for your unwavering support!!
Physical cleanliness and hygiene dos and don’ts for Tibetans for health, happiness and freedom
Bathroom rules:
As you wake up either in the morning or in the evening depending on your personal routine go to kitchen and
1. Grab a cup of sweet milk tea to stimulate your inside and go to bathroom and shit for 10 or 30 minutes depending on your need but make sure you take it out to the most you can. You don’t need to leave rotten stuff inside you when you can remove them out of your system completely. Open the bath room windows to let in fresh air and also to get rid of the stink from the bathroom.
2. Before you sit on the toilet seat, make sure you clean it with damp paper towel. Wipe it dry with paper towel. If you shit 10 times in a sitting, flush 10 times. Flush once after every shitting to reduce the stink and to leave no stains. Simultaneously, fill your bucket with warm water from the tap and use the jug to pour warm water on your ass from behind to help you come out easily if you have any level of constipation.
3. After you are done shitting, wash your ass off with warm water with Indian style or you can use ass spray faucet which comes with a handle and wash your ass off thoroughly including your balls and pussy to your heart’s content without you having to touch your shit if this is what you hate so much to do. Nothing cleans like water.
4. Then wipe your ass dry with paper towel so as to avoid wet ass, fungus and itching later on.
5. Go to the sink and wash your hands with soap 3 times to get rid of germs, bacteria and viruses.
6. Now floss your teeth for 1 minute. Rinse your mouth of the blood.
7. Brush your teeth for 3 minutes with tooth paste.
8. Clean your tongue red of all the food stuff with a metal tongue cleaner or just clean your tongue with a tooth brush. You can do it. It’s easy with a little practice. After you made sure all the food stuff on your tongue are removed from the whole length of the tongue and that your tongue is red clean, rinse your mouth 10 times.
9. Now go and take your shower in 10 minutes. Apply soap and rinse off. Shower every day.
10. Every time you are done using bathroom make sure you wipe the sink and toilet seat dry with paper towel and mop the floor dry.
11. Rinse your hands off with soap every time you are done with peeing.
Bad habits to overcome:
12. Change your underwear, socks, under vest every day after shower.
13. Clip your nails of hands and feet once every 10 days.
14. Never pick your nose in public! Blow your nose off in shower or in bath room sink.
15. Never spit in public or during meal times. Just do it in a bathroom.
16. Never belch or fart in public or during meal times. Do it when nobody is around in the open!
No one appreciates it.
17. Never dig your ear in public. Do everything in total privacy, preferably in a bathroom.
18. Never pick your teeth in public.
19. Never talk about blood, shit, pus during meal times.
20. Never slurp while having your thukpa or tea.
21. Never scratch in public.
22. Rinse you mouth thoroughly in a bathroom every time you are done with your meals. Now is the time to spit the sputum out of your throat and lungs.
23. Wash your hands off with soap before and after you COOK. Rinse your hands off every time you touch something in your KITCHEN.
24. According to doctors association, 90% of the stomach upset is caused by shit (whether it’s yours or others mean same thing) entering your mouth by some means. So while in bed don’t finger your ass and try to sniff the naughty finger! 90% of bad breath is caused by an unclean tongue. Clean it now. With clean tongue, kiss gets tastier!
Tibetans whether from Tibet or India or US, monks or lay, males or females, young or old extremely lack clean hygienic habits in their daily lives.
So I hope the above advice helps those who need it.
Thank you. Free Tibet!
Just to let you know that the RSS feed of your blog is featured on the new Tibet Central website: http://www.tibetcentral.net/
If you have any suggestions for additional RSS feeds or other ways of making this site even more useful, please let me know. If you could include a link back to http://www.tibetcentral.net/ on your blog it would most helpful in making it visible to more people and hence increase traffic to your and other Tibet-related blogs.
SEEEEEEEEEE., I told you earlier: “Only wise can understand JN’s article.”
Christophe,
Thanks for your attempt to clarify their confusion. I am sure it don’t matter that much because those people have a thick rusty iron lid on their head. Until, they themselves come out of it and be broadminded and think through what jamyang is actually talking about, there are same as those Chinese pigs who revered Mao and communist too much and regurgitate the communist mantra even when they have excess to all the news in the west. Those chinese pigs still thinks Dalai lama’s devolvement of power is game/politics. I am sure we all come across those people in our life and it drove us crazy wondering if they ever have a brain in their head.
Do you see any resemblance here? Don’t you become like one!
Hey people, Don’t go so negative about JN. We all know that he is also fighting chinese lies besides his criticism to HHDL and TGIE.
I don’t wanna repeat as chiristophe had clearly asnwered some of your question/confusion. But if you are still not satisfied or think that JN is cruel, hater, chinese spy and TGIE hater, pls answer tthis question: When did JN said, Dalai lama is not needed in Tibetan Struggle or not needed as head of State?
JN still thinks its good idea for HHDL to leave the day to day TGIE Task and should leave it to the elected people. We all think that without changing the present charter ours do not represent a true democratic government. With that being said, having HHDL as head of the state doesn’t do any harm and infact Thailand’s type system seems very fitting to our case.
JN always believes that HHDL is needed in our struggle. He categorically said that HHDL is a TIbetan leader first, and world leader second and he should come out to the street in dust and sun (may be little too much) like Gandhi to shake the Chinese evil empire.
Some view this statement very negatively but i see it in a positive way: that sends a message to the chinese that we can shake the chinese empire and we have a weapon, CHina be careful!
Seriously, we have it and if HHDL can lead us like the gandhi, Rangzen is attainable.
Too much for now!!!!!!!!
I JUST GOT THE MESSAGE FROM MY TGIE CONTACTS THAT COMMITTEE ACTUALLY FINISHED THE REDRAFTING WORK…….
THEY DISTRIBUTED HHDL’S AUTHORITY AMONG THE THREE PILLARS OF OUR DEMOCRACY: KASHAG, CHITHUS, AND TRIMSHIB.
THAT WAS A QUICK FIX. I SEE SO MANY PROBLEM WITH THAT BUT LETS LEAVE THAT FOR NEXT DISCUSSION.
THERE IS NO HEAD OF STATE: ALL OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS WOULD LIKE TO HAVE ONE EXCEPT SAMDHONG RINPOCHE AS HE FEELS/THINKS TIBETAN PEOPLE WILL FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE.
SO, WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOUR TEACHER SAID SO???
SAMDHONG RINPOCHE AND OTHERS ARE INFACT MORE WORRY ABOUT THE NEW KATRI AND HIS CABINET. HE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASY FOR THE NEW KATRI. THEY ARE THINKING OF WAYS TO SCRAP THE CHITHUS APPROVAL OF THE NEW KALONS APPOINTMENT BY THE KATRI….
OHHH, I SEE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HERE: CHITHUS PENPA, GYARI DOLMA WILL SUPPORT THIS CHANGE AS THEY ARE THE TALK OF THE TOWN AS NEW KALON APPOINTEE OF LS ADMINISTRATION BEFORE THE ELECTION RESULT.
ONLY PEMA JUNGNEY WILL HOPEFULLY NOT SUPPORT THE NEW DESIGN TO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER LS AND SAMDHONG’S CONTROL. HOW? SAMDHONG IS LS’S ADVISOR, AND NOW THUPTEN LUNGRIK WILL BE CHITHU AND HE IS ROOTING FOR CHITHU TSOKTSO FROM NOW. ITS THE TALK OF THE TOWN.
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE CALL ME AT 91+1 202-510-6178. OR WAIT FOR MY BREAKING NEWS.
SINCERELY,
YOURS AGU.
Agu Tonpo dude,
Don’t compare British rule in Inida with Chinese rule in Tibet. Just the comparizon makes you so ignorant about nuances of the situations compared.
How many Indians would be killed by Tiny army of Britain in India? India got billions of peaple….Also it got the human resources in other fields of human knowledge. If things can be changed merely coming on the street, of course, anyone will do it. The matter is not as simple as it seems ands propagated by Jamyang Norbu la, and fools like you repeat it again and again. I think you need to listen more HHDL’s talk on these issues. When you realize the hard reality, then you might pause and think differently. People truly came out into the street in 2008, nothing happenned, except slaughtered numbered in hundred. And do we have a program to support these traumatized and victimized families in Tibet? Of course not, because we the people in exile are too fond of talking big about coutry and nations, while oneself so selfish and does not even contribute to the struggle except writing few comments in our spare time. I think enough is enough. Who actually died in 2008? People in exile died for the cause…of course not. We cannot expect someone do the job while we sit comfortably. I don’t think people like their family members get murdered…..if JN and his followers go back to Tibet and sacrifice….then we will truly appreciate and might consider to follow. Otherwise, expecting someone to die for one’s political philosophy is no right.
Also, we don’t have to copy and paste either the Thai or Bhutan or English or whatever systems they have. We can have our own democracy. I would rather trust a people like HHDL who dedicated his entire life for the cause and welfare of Tibetan people in particular and every citizen of world in general, than trusting few so called scholars in this crazy world. To understand a situation, those people who spent their entire lives in the struggle with an active role in the movement have better ideas and strategies than those people who merely read news here and there, and interview, and then writing something smartass papers.
NG
JAMYANG LA
PLEASE CHECK WITH YOUR CONTACTS. I GOT THIS NEWS FROM A VERY CREDIBLE SOURCES. THEY ARE ACTUALLY TESTING THE WATER BY GOING TO EACH INDIVIDUAL CHITHUS INFORMALLY AND ASKING IF THOSE CHANGES SOUNDS REASONABLE… THEY HAVE ABOUT 12 OR 13 PEOPLE IN THEIR TEAM IN CHITHUS LENKHANG. I HOPE MAJORITY DOESN’T GET FOOLED BY THE SAMDHONG’S CUNNING TALK AND ISSUES BE HANDLED LIKE THE THE PRIVITIZATION OF TGIE’S BUSINESSES.
YOURS,
AGU TONPA
TW was LOL watching TNT COL…ha ha!
The election results are out and have just been posted on the Tibetan Review.
yea, TW was LOL on TNT and then went to backdoor and gave fist bump to LS. TW was also seen leaning towards LS’s ear as though to say something. its unclear but many who were around think TW whispered “yes, we did it” and left the spot before anyone could notice them :))
dont be stupid, even with TW’s vote added to TNT, its still less than LS’s vote. so the lesson learnt here is that monk vote bank is crucial. but is that fair? what kind of democracy is that? democracy of the monk denominator?
And Kusho la are not Bhoerig with no equal rights, atleast for Katri?
Folks, let us not use derogatory words/phrases.
It is true that Tashi Wangdu la and Tenzing Tethong la did not win the Katri-ship.
But not winning the Katri-ship in no way diminishes their life-long contribution to our people and our cause.
If anything, by engaging in the election campaign actively, they have once again demonstrated that they are ever willing and ready to serve our cause in every capacity possible.
1. Imagine an election where LS-la is the only candidate.
2. Or imagine an election where LS la and some other candidates from a completely different (lower) league were contesting in the election.
3. And now think about the current election where Tashi Wangdu la, Tenzing Tethong la and LS la contested the seat.
By virtue of their monumental stature in our society (hard earned through life long contributions), Tashi Wangdu la and Tenzing Tethong la helped impart a degree of radiance to the whole election process which would be acutely lacking in campaign version 1 and 2 outlined above.
Their participation rendered a degree of genuine competition hitherto unseen in Katri elections.
Let us think positive and take the result with grace and dignity.
TCL
I AGREE WITH NEWGENERATION! HE IS RIGHT!
# 64, New Generation:
Excuse me, where was I comparing? Even I did compare it isn’t a grossly overrated/mistaken comparison. You might have heard this, “the sun never sets on the British empire,” and if they’ve the will, they have the resources to kill as many Indian as they wish. In fact, in its 200 years of occupation deaths and massacres of Indian aren’t uncommon. Had they been pessimistic and coward like you India’s independence was a big dream.
Now whether you judge the glass half full to half empty, it is up to you. I still think that anything under the sun can be a possibility. Then, you have the audacity to tell me, “When you realize the hard reality, then you might pause and think differently.” Well, I should be saying this line to you. Do you realize the implication of no Dalai Lama in Tibetan struggle? Have you ever think through differently? Have you ever thought of those Bureau of HHDL/ HHDL cultural offices whose name has to be that way in those countries and doesn’t recognize TGIE?
You sounded like you have think through those points and have an answers. I am also sure that you have an idea not like British and Thailand system but of our own. This is exactly we are talking about. Discuss, discuss, and discuss until we have our own. JN wasn’t forcing us to accept his point. It was just one option out of many (hopefully). Don’t shun off of those ideas just because you don’t agree with JN on some issues. If you disagree JN totally, get the f**k out of this place.
“To understand a situation, those people who spent their entire lives in the struggle with an active role in the movement have better ideas and strategies than those people who merely read news here and there, and interview, and then writing something smartass papers.”
Yesterday, you were saying that to become patriotic you don’t have to working for TGIE 9-5. Today, I can’t believe you are saying those above words. The problem is that your eyes don’t notice its own eyebrows. You are projecting others of negativity, ill advice, and wrongdoings while it was actually your own projection of yourself. If you don’t know, let me tell you, Critical writings, giving talks and presentation about Tibet are as actively involved or sometimes more involved than those of Samdhong in the Tibetan struggle. After all, not many people are gifted writers and the fact that JN writes about Tibet all the time seems to me like his working for Tibet 24x7x365=Lifelong.
After all, don’t you wanted a Katri “who merely read news here and there, and interview, and then writing something smartass papers,” not other candidates who offered “lifelong service.” Who and what are you talking about?
When JN supports TNT who is actually the symbol of lifelong service and active involvement in the Tibetan struggle, all hell broke loose on you. You weren’t appreciative of TNT service then, why? TNT wasn’t your type of guy, right? Why such double standard?
Review you every writings, you’ll find that yours writings are full of nepotism, favoritism, cynicism, sectarianism, and devoid of rationalism.
“People truly came out into the street in 2008, nothing happened, except slaughtered numbered in hundred…Otherwise, expecting someone to die for one’s political philosophy is no right.”
What nonsense! That’s what happens when you don’t use your critical faculties. You are talking like those of Chinese “Gundas” as if we in the exile have “masterminded and premeditated” the 2008 revolt. I must say that there are no hands involved either from the TGIE or from TYC and leave alone JN supporters. We wish we had that kind of support, so that we can send pigs like you to Siberia.
Remember that 2008 riot/revolt was a direct result of Chinese occupation and systemic discrimination against the Tibetan people and it was a voluntary and abrupt reaction. We do not wish Single Tibetan to die nor do we wish single Tibetan to live under constant fears, threat, and discriminations. Do you want us not write or talk, and sweep everything under the rugs? If you are so concern, ask Samdhong to cease the TGIE operation not tell individual Tibetan to cease our activities. Tell samdhong they should be no TGIE rather change to Overseas Chinese Organization, ask Tibetan to accept Whatever Chinese master’s says. That might save more Tibetan lives.
In the end, I would disagree the following one more vehemently; “I think you need to listen more HHDL’s talk on these issues.”
Nope, not more. I think you need to put your thinking cap and listen with your critical faculties, and do the “chepa” (investigation) like HHDL advises and one would do to the teachings of the LORD BUDDHA.
Use your Marvelous human intelligence (HHDL).
Yours Agu,
Tonpa.
I am glad LS won, IF not whole hell will break loose. People in Bylakop, Bir, and monks were set to boycott the Greenbook contribution if TNT wins.
Sad, but true. At least, hopefully, we don’t have to worry about the revolt for another 5 years.
AGU.
Agu Lyenpa,If TNT won or TW won- i would wish them well–stop….continue .
Daveno,
Thats just you and looking at what you wrote earlier, you will not just wish then well.. Perhaps, you will wish TW well but surely not for TNT.
Look at our writings and our analysis, we’ll know who is Lyenpa. One wise man once said, Lyenpa will call others Lyenpa when they have nothing to rebuttal.
Take care,
Yours Agu.
Agu agu..yes pala! Election over !! no amala! i have to win!..yes popo la!
Guys, JN and Others, be calm…don’t battle around…now that prof. LS entered the TGIE, everything is gonna be alright! Bye-bye the stagnant era, bye-bye lukewarm adminstration. There’ll be a firework of hope. Long live HH DL, long live Dr.LS. May the duo bring peace and prosperity to the Land of Snows, and all sentient beings too.
hello,can you clarify for me please. Is LS a Dr, professor or he just atended Harvard? appreicate your answer.
even samdhong rinpoche is not a professor in the techinical sense of the world. still media call him prof. Samdhong rinpoche. prof. could perhaps imply huge mental calibre befitting a professor.
The Tibet Justice Centre has just released a legal Memo that’s been posted on TPR.
They are very much in favour of His Holiness maintaining position as Head of State.
The pace of changes since the Elections has been quite breathtaking. Will this Memo get a hearing in our Parliament?
Jayang Norbu la, is from the time immemorial an exponent or rather the forefront trend-setter of revolutionary ideas within the tibetan exile community. I give it to his credit that he prompted and spearheaded the contradictory ideas and opinions against His Holiness,the CTA set-up and its functionaries whenever he found it wrong, which amid stalemate situation of Tibetan issue, was somewhat a lift in the form of robust growth of democracy. But going through this essay rendered a doubt about the ambiguity of his perennial stand…When His Holiness is all set to relinquish his political powers, very much in concordance to one of Jayang Norbu la’s wishlist, he seem to become a poignant writer penning the melancholic essay citing reasons why His Holiness should retain the office, elucidating reasons which does not familiarize us to early him…
No one could replicate,not even an iota of what His Holiness has done for us,Tibetan and for the cause of Tibet. Those who live in Western countries must be knowing that we are not acknowledged or recognized as a Tibetan, but the people of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. May He live thousands of year and lead us both politically n spiritually.Long live kundun!
Taking into account the importance of the subject, I strongly invite you to read the two following articles and watch the following video:
“Failing to see the issue”
by Wangpo Tethong
http://bit.ly/mJJ1OO
“Issues Regarding Amendments in the Charter for Tibetans-in-Exile”
by Youth for a Better Democracy
http://bit.ly/jbi2yU
His Holiness’s remarks on devolution of power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pLexhc_Zjw
IMPORTANT: in the above video, His Holiness clearly insists that there’s no such things as a “government in exile” or a Tibetan “prime minister” (18:43 till end). This is nothing new, of course, but his remarks just makes a shiver run down my spine…!
The following statement from the Tibet Justice Center is also to be read imperatively:
TJC Identifies Legal Risks in Re-Naming Central Tibetan Administration
“May 20, 2011 – Tibet Justice Center notes that a proposal is being considered that the Tibetan Government-in-Exile, also known as the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA), officially change its name to the “Institution of the Government of the Exile Tibetan People.” (Tsenjol Bod Mei Zhung Gi Drik Tsuk).
It should be appreciated that such a change WOULD HAVE DRAMATICALLY NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW.
http://bit.ly/me8Fq3
To keep updated, watch also to the 2nd General Meeting Opening (May 21st, 2011) on TibetOnline.tv, and especially Prof. Samdhong address (46:10–87:00).
http://bit.ly/kitnqt
From Stephen Sackur’s “Hard Talk” questions, it appears as if: the Prime Minister elect Lobsang Sangye will have to be initiated as a trulku to make him a successful leader of the Tibetan movement. Funny!
Come on Rewalsar we have to go ahead ! campaign period is over. He is the legitimate kalon tripa of all of us for five years tenure. please refrain from speculating…. what it appears or seems bla bla….
You can criticize contructively his work but first give him a chance. Give me a break….Rewalsar
strangely quiet this blog. Almost dead.
Hallo anyone here other than the commentators?
all said and done,i thorroughly enjoyed reading JNla’s article,but greater still,the arguments put forth by all the commentators (“argumentative tibetans”).In thought,word,and deed….whether middle way(autonomy) or total independance….free tibet!……socially,politically,environmentally.
Christophe, Excellent work!
I am coming out!
Don’t have much time these days but I thought just wanted to write up something this morning about recent General Meeting, The charter drafting committee and the H.H. the Dalai Lama.
On the face of it, the document churned out by the Charter Drafting Committee looked like it was independently produced by the committee itself: the suggestions such as changing the name of exile Tibetan govt into an exile Tibetan institution, abandoning the name of Ganden Phodrang and with it the relinquishing the actual leadership post of the Dalai Lama in Tibet polity. However the question of its genuineness popped up when the Dalai Lama rejected the suggestions of 2nd General Meeting recently held in Dharamsala.
A lone wolf maybe but at this time, I want to express my take on the Ping Pong Tournament being played in Dharamsala these days. I am convinced that the offense player from Kashag team headed by Mr. Samdung is the façade of the H.H. the Dalai Lama. The new charter draft kicked off by Mr. Samdung had the influence of a heavy hand from the private office of the Dalai Lama.
How in the world Mr. Samdung came up with the idea of changing the name of exile government into some kind of an institution or department? What made him to come up with that idea? Was it the Dalai Lama’s decision to step down from the Tibetan polity made Mr. Samdung to think that now was the time to demote the status of Tibet from govt to an institution? I highly doubt that this maneuver of the kicking the Ping Pong ball is that of the independent sportsmanship of the Charter Drafting Committee itself.
This recent phenomena dubbed as a “General Meeting” is usually composed of castrated confused players with no vigor to produce any result of its own. So it’s hard to define whether this team plays offensive or defensive but in the end of each tournament, this team always succumbs to the offensive Samdung team couched by H.H. the Dalai Lama of Tibet government in exile.
So who is that unbiased referee that declares who is winner and who is loser in the Ping Pong Tournament? Unfortunately, there is none. Tibetan People’s Assembly seems to be deposited with full trust from the people. After all, they were elected by the people. Recently, its chairman clearly seems to see the dilemma, has started pronouncing their task to work for “Tibetan people” and “the Dalai Lama” ༼༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་བཀའ་དང་མི་མང་གི་མངོན་འདོད་གཉིས་ཀ་བསྒྲུབ་རྒྱུ་ཡིན། ༽
In fact Tibetan parliament is tragically trapped in the double bind. At least it is or should be recognized it’s.
Boy was I so wrong on this! Tibetan parliament doesn’t seem (at least in appearance) to think of themselves swimming in the hot water though the Dalai Lama’s intention and the overwhelming opinion of the 2nd General Meeting are vastly different. The Dalai Lama wants to resign the status of the exile government to an institution (or a department) and Tibetan peoples declared opinion to keep the status quo of exile Government as it is. Chithue now is debating to craft a provision in the future charter that “satisfies” both demands.
At the end of the tournament, in a traditional Tibetan funfair, the game will be declared that there is no loser but everybody in the tournament is the winner in the holy name and grace of the H.H. the Dalai Lama of exile Tibetan Department.
At this time Beijing doesn’t have to think of the embarrassing task of forging the new seal བདེན་པ་ཉིད་རྒྱལ་གྱུར་ཅིག and stamp it on the trophy of Tibetan Department because Tibet Department is already under the United Front Department of People’s Republic of China under People’s Liberation Army.
After all, the ultimately audience of this game is leadership from Beijing. Demoting the status quo of Exile Government may seem to please the Beijing. But if the history is any evidence, what the exile leadership has been doing is spiraling down a death hole, crawling one inch at a time hoping to see a “Happy Tibet” at the end with the mantra of “truth will prevail”.
In the end,those in exile will be defined as ‘Expat’. This is just one interpretation against everyone’s wishes.
However, there will be a wave of opportunities for us after these events,which will go against the wishes of commie Ching chong.
i whole heartedly support hh letting his political role, even ceremonial head of state, go for good.
1. it will pave way for separation of religion from politics(no other lamas-karmapa lama or sakya lama-can get there after hh is gone though their followers may crave for it)
2.it will pave way for multi party democracy
3. with this, rangzen party can come to power democratically thru elections. we get some chance which we dont have now.
4. it will help us politically stand on our own feet gaining total freedom from dependency on lamas. there will ofcurse be bumps and bruises along the way but our struggle wont die. infact hardships and uncertainities will stregthen our movement with people getting more involved and taking more responsibility out of sheer necessity for individual survival n with no GOD guiding us down the sewage collectively n unitedly. so much for unity.
we are catastrophically divided on 2 most important issues in our community. independence or middle way. parliamentary reforms or status quo. until n unless hh commands the chithues before hh leaves, secular multi party system will remain a distant dream for the majority of the lawmakers are the same law breakers! they do not support what we ask them to work on. with party system which party’s mp candidates won more seats will decide the course of our movement, external n internal. To quote HH “Union of Religion and Politics govt is outdated. Although democratic govt is not perfect but nevertheless it is the best form govt in the world. We must move on harmoniously with the majority/international community” despite this samdong says chosi sungdrel will go on for the next 50 years. why do people who claim to follow every word of hh go against it on major issues? people dont get it and i get why people dont get it.
The tibet’s problems can only be fixed by tibetans turning away from regionalistic and sectarian system that is competitive and exploitative (theocracy) and turning to secular multi party system and non-exploitative, sustainable individual freedom (democracy). I don’t want a system like the China is—so called unity n stability at the expense of the freedom of average citizens. We have to massively turn the Tibet world around. The details are complex and not simple. This stuff is not easy, and there are no easy answers. But, staying (or trying to stay) the way we are now is not an option. Things will not stay this way for long. Drastic changes are coming. If we don’t do something now while we are relatively free, we will not be able to do anything later when things drastically change and there is large-scale panic and confusion.
Well, things have never been very good for the working common people of Tibet, the greatest mass of Tibetan population. Things were not bad when Tibetans could try to live in individual family units in a sort of anarchistic, subsistence economy. But, for centuries the monasteries had become huge land-owning, surplus-value extracting, hierarchical feudal estates, exploiting the lowest level workers for the sake of the higher, and holier ones. So, you guys want the old system back under a different book cover. Why? Who will that benefit? Is secular multi party system great? Probably not that great. But, is the condition of the majority freedom better? I imagine so. Tell me if I am wrong. Why should “democracy” for the upper class-who the lamas represent matter at all? I reject that. Let the Lamas work in their spiritual domain. We wont bother them. That’s all I am asking. Do not claim ownership of our freedom like the Chinese do n like the way lamas/aristos/pons/gyalpos themselves did in history n they continue to do so now. It is a bogus concept that has no place in just social political thought.
What is the positive of the present choka cholug system? Pretty paintings? When the back of our freedom is broken, and our people are bleeding and dying, this doesn’t help. It denies us rangzen folks the support we could and should get from our own govt by denying access to govt systematically. we will all enjoy pretty paintings one day when everyone’s freedom is respected, access to govt machinery is granted and rangzen is regained, but to care about sheep like uniformity under the pretext of unity when our people are starving of rangzen is more than questionable.
Peoples freedom and lives are more important than out dated theocratic system of govt. i for one will not repeat this naive trust in this chosi sungdrel bull but will continue to work n support those who stand for my dreams and beliefs. history of tibet is a history of sectarian power struggle n bloodshed by those who claim to have renounced the material world for the pursuit of spiritual illumination.
sickness, perhaps a subtle one, invades and occupies those minds offguard that cannot imagine tibet life and unity without the dalai lama (or some other lama)who ascended to power through violence in the 17th century. tibet existed before the advent of the dalai lamas for millenia. tibet lost its independence for the first time in history during dalai lama’s rule. the fault lies with the system of chosi sung drel that rationalized n discouraged the strengthening of military system, modernization and what not. it did little or nothing to educate, uplift n empower the common people who formed 99% of the population. yes lamas n aristos had their balls! 50 years in exile n still we find ourselves brain washed and conditioned into thinking all iz well as long as as we have a lama on top. dalai lama has not left the world. dalai lama left our political world to help us stand on our own feet. secular multi party is the way to go. independence before unity.
with tgie reduced to an institution expect the following soon
1.we have have chinese flags on our govt buildings, offices etc
2.we will be singing chinese national anthem every morning
3.we will be carry overseas chinese passport
4.we will be closing down 22 army
5.we will declare that tibet was a part of chine even in the past
6.there will chinese-tibetan matrimonial alliance
7.we will declare taiwan, ladak, arunachal as part of china
8. we will ban tyc, sft
9. we will condemn any tibetan who protest chinese occupation.
i dont know about 2012 doomsday. but we tibet n tibetans are fucking doomed for sure.
Go for president as head of state. Did China or India demand to change the name? Why? What is HH private office’s role? How powerful is it?
Just a thought, but I wonder…http://tibettruth.com/2011/05/27/was-dalai-lamas-retirement-a-capitulation-to-chinas-demands/
So, without, as far as I am aware, any opportunity for the Tibetan people to agree or not; the exile (is that term still tolerated?) Tibetan authorities has decided to abandon a vitally important legal affirmation of Tibetan sovereignty by renaming itself no longer a government of Tibet.
Another nail firmly nailed into Tibet’s coffin and barely a whisper from it’s long suffering people. I am reminded of the closing scene to the film ‘Planet Of The Apes’ as the lead character finally realizes the immense folly that has resulted in the inverted world he now inhabits and shouts “You really did it..you maniacs..”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110529/ap_on_re_as/as_india_dalai_lama
Yeshi said “the parliament passed the amendments Saturday. They also include changing the name of the Tibetan government-in-exile to the Tibetan Administration to include Tibetans in Tibet.”
Are Tibetans in Tibet not included in Tibetan Govt-in-Exile? How not so? Why did it take 51 years to realize this?
A good point, do nt however overlook the immense consequence of exchanging the strictly defined term of ‘government’ for ‘administration’. In essence by removing the former, legitimacy is extended to China’s governance of Tibet, that concedes Tibet also as an internal matter of China’s. It is a very dark development in terms of Tibet’s cause, in terms of international law and one that sends sone troubling signals of what’s to come in regard to ‘negotiations’.
So by your logic, almost 60 years of grandiose nomenclature has done a lot of good for the Tibetan cause, right?
Let’s be honest here, you can name yourself “Mandate Under Heaven”, and you’ll still be a bunch of beggars sitting in Dharamsala waiting for western handouts.
Let me tell you why Chinese governance over Tibet is legitimate: it has nothing to do with the trappings of history nor some twisted sense of morality, it’s legitimate because the PAP, if it really came down to it, can stamp out every single source of Tibetan resistance, up to and including the extermination of the Tibetan race, and there is NOTHING a bunch of yak herders can do about it. You should count your blessings that Chinese culture does not contain an ideology full of absolutes that makes genocide such a frequent occurrence in western history.
Well,your somewhat less than balanced position has been made clear on previous occasions, to the extent that any genuinely intelligent contributions you may possess are obscured by a barely concealed dogma, that has the toxicity one associates with China’s official mouthpiece, Xinhua. A pity really as I suspect if only you could free yourself of the ideological harness you are obviously restricted by, you could turn your mind to the subject with objectivity. Unfortunately as demonstrated by your selective and biased comments on China, relating to implementing genocidal policies, your mental programming disables you from recounting the horrors and mass deaths of the so-called ‘Cultural Revolution’ and Great Leap Backwards (pun intended) which witnessed the deaths of hundreds of millions in a clearly genocidal like scale and social insanity, both of which emerged from China’s culture. Since 1979 of course China’s benign cultural sensitivity has seen the enforcement of a program of forced sterilizations and forced abortions, again more genocidal actions, waged against countless Tibetan, Uighur, Mongolian, Manchu and Chinese women. Medical atrocities of a scale and nature not seen since the Sterilization Laws of Hitler’s Germany.
Meanwhile, Tibetan and its people remain possessed of the right under international law to self-determination, and many would argue, correctly, independence. No amount of your poison alters that truth, nor will it diminish the resistance to China’s tyranny and illegal occupation.
Mental programming…I love it when retards with very little substance to contribute always come back to this pathetic line.
FYI, I am a US citizen who have lived the vast majority of my life here. My “mental programming” is simply a framework that is devoid of the trappings of unproductive ideologues such as yourself.
As an aside, when have I ever denied the atrocities of the cultural revolution and the great leap forward? This is, of course, a rhetorical question. I have never done so. Unfortunately you must cast me in such lights to mold me into a concept you can understand: that of a “mentally programmed” Chinaman. I have my own grievances with the CCP, but I certainly won’t discuss them with a bunch of ill-educated and delusional Tibetan exiles and their equally inane western mouthpieces such as you.
And I think it’s quite ironic that for all the sins the CCP has, according to you, committed, the average Chinese is quite content with his government, not to mention that there are quite a few of them around (and a plateau full of Tibetans to boot).
My position on Tibet has always been this: if 60 years of “none violent” resistance and begging didn’t work, try something else. Keep pissing in CCP’s eyes while the geopolitical situation continues to improve for the other side is not the smartest thing you can do.
You can toss around lofty ideals and brave words all you want, but meanwhile, stubborn Tibetans are refusing to take part in the economic developments of Tibet and, in the process, marginalizing themselves. The problem isn’t Chinese economic and demographic penetration of Tibet itself; that is already a fait accompli, and no amount of pissing contest can reverse it. The problem is how to empower Tibetans to gleam the most out of this process.
But you don’t really care about Tibetans IN Tibet, do you? What you care about is to uphold an image of perceived justice and sticking it to the CCP. You probably wish for some Tibetan massacre daily so that you can get your point across…along with significantly more funding for your little crusade against Chinese tyranny. Don’t worry Monsieur Bowe, this…disease is not limited to you. Almost every single western based Tibet organization suffers from it to one degree or another, which is why when (if) the proverbial tombstone is finally placed onto the Tibetan grave, it would be with you scumbags carving the date of death.
Talk about poison, heh?
@97: Whether or not one agrees with HH Dalai Lama’s “middle way” position for autonomy, it seems clear that it has been to China’s advantage to have HH to pretend to negotiate with. It doesn’t really make sense to me that the Chinese government would want him to give up political leadership as long as they are able to continue the game of buying time with pointless yearly “negotiations” while they consolidate their hold on Tibet by moving in more and more Chinese. I suspect they will miss him, despite all the names they call him. (And I mean no disrespect to HH – he is sincere, but his adversaries are not.)
(I mean his Chinese adversaries are not sincere – not you Tibetans who justly want rangzen.)
The fact remains that inside occupied Tibet there is a common aspiration for Tibet’s national freedom, while an ongoing resistance to China’s vicious rule continues to face bullets, torture and prison to demand Tibet’s rightful independence. Within international law Tibet remains an independent nation under illegal occupation, with at the very least the right to self-determination. Within that context Tibet is an international issue and it’s cause for freedom is just. Against such factors the decision of the exiled Tibetan authority to relinquish the title of ‘Government’ is an act of political suicide and one presaging dangerous consequences, in terms of the cause itself and as a case within international law. In formalizing that change to the Charter the exiled Tibetan leadership has in effect conceded that China is the only legitimate government of the Tibetan people in occupied Tibet. This action, along with the decision by the Dalai Lama to retire from his political role, seems to carry all the hallmarks of an orchestration, one designed to appease China regarding negotiations.
Hongkong pro-democracy rally is a nice to watch event.
@ Chinese Engineer #103
Your comeback at Jeff seems impressive but, as is the case with all your comments, it lacks logic and makes claims for which there are plenty of evidence supporting the contrary position. 60 years of Chinese good intention has yielded nothing but poverty, suspicion, hatred, crackdowns, kidnapping, imprisonment and murders. One wonders why.
Majority of Tibetans may be illiterate but they are not fools. They refuse to participate in the so called economic development programs because they know it is rigged to benefit only the Han migrants. 60 years of history have taught them that much.
As for the Han majority, they are so completely and hopelessly deluded that even the most informed and the educated of them think that their government is like a disciplining father who loves his children but never shows his love. This is so laughable. May be all the Chinese ARE born with the original sin for which they are disciplined and punished their entire life by their government. Talk about delusion… when the worst form of totalitarianism somehow appears to be heavenly rule.
Hey guys,
Lets forget about this chinese dude. Let him enjoy the precious FREEDOM that no one in CHina and Tibet enjoys. ENJOY dude.
Lets get back to our business. This amendment to the charter is so depressing and i can tell you that almost all of us got disheartened by fact that redrafting committee and those stupid Chithus had not only made HHDL irrelevant but also smashes TGIE to rubble. I just can’t believe we know have an exile tibetan institution but no govt. Whose ideas was it anyway?
#93 Arihant made sense lot of sense. It’s Samdhong who has the upper hand. But why did he push for such changes? i could only guess 3 reasons: first, perhaps he wants to be the first and the last directly elected TIbetan PM. It’s unfortunate LS has become Manager of this institution rather than our PM. Second, may be samdhong is scare of a big changes by LS, and thirdly may be some other issues.
I have vehemently opposed LS during the election and will criticised if they need be. But, after the election result, and espcially after that “hard Talk, interview, i accept him as my PM/ Katri and we should all support him.
Lets give LS a chance to be the PM of TGIE you. Don’t make him CEO?manager of the comapny
Some food for thought:
Decapitated, then emasculated: The programmed termination of the Tibetan nation
http://bit.ly/lTWCfp
“We Will Eat Tsampa with Chopstick”
The relationship between the exile Tibetan leadership and its people are that of the Shepherd and its flock in the Christian gospel, and Cherezig the omniscient one and its delusional beings in the Buddhist text, the master and it’s servant in the Marxist sense of the term, Krishna’s sudarshana chakra and pandvas of Mahabharata.
Except Marxist paradigm, all other relationship requires an unquestionable faith for the bond between the two from falling off. It is this faith that the gap between the delusional beings of Tibet and the Omniscient Deity of the land are seamlessly bridged by automatically rescinding opinions of the delusional mass and consciously suppressing them in favor of the “guidance” of Omniscient one. After all, Omniscient knows all.
The delusional mass just needs to follow the guide as we are also legally blind in the eyes of the Omniscient, the Dalai Lama, the Samdung Lama and Gyari Lama.
Worst yet, we are puppets (Samdung Lama puts it). We have no soul. No heart. No brain. No initiative. No muscle. No strength. No use. We are tied up with holy strings. We move only when the Master pulls to move, move only in the direction the Master intends to move. We are the puppets of the Master. The apostle of Tibetan Shepherd, Mr. Samdung pronounced that we are the Master Plan of the Lord, the Shepherd. We are flock.
The next decree the Master wants to declare is to “To tsampa with chopstick”.
Hello Lamas, we will respect your decree “to eat tsampa with chopstick” and “to wipe our asses with newspaper” to make doubly sure that we follow your decree.
Arihant,
What happened man? I thought you could digest these event for these are the steps towards the end result of Umey Lam.
Its the same feeling one have for dying process and death.We accept it with all the logical application of every teaching and then freak out in varying degree as the moment comes closer.
Be strong..Samdhong rinpoche will recite ‘Bardo thordol’ to guide us.
Please Support/Share Widely The Snow Lion Manifesto
http://twitpic.com/55fk2h/full
Did not know Samdon and Gyari omniscient. Which script says it? Making own version of Buddhism out of ignorance with clear understanding of faking the story in order to meet own politics. Lol….not all monks are Englightened or all Lamas are omniscient. Stay on truth and argue…you cannot make stories in order to vent your anger for whatever reason.
NG
Dalai lama outlineed some benefits, no need for me to state them again.
On the ground, the uncertainty is real. Many belief Tibet is unified more by religious sentiments than by national feelings. I hope the political byproduct of HH is not evaporated with his resignation.
My memory as a kid, “Tibet will regain its freedom through patience and through accumulation of mantras” How mantras work towards this objective? I really don’t know.
“Patience” how does this work. We normally associate patience when we have made some investment in the form of labour or struggle and then we patiently wait for the result, very much like a farmer. But, in Tibet case what is the meaning of patience to everyday citizen. What is the investment and what is the expected outcome? Are we patiently waiting for the time for investment made by Dalai lama alone? Dalai lama always says he devotes 80% on religious matter and 20% on official work. Are we expecting something from 80 or 20%?
Did we get something wrong? Are we willing to accept that something went wrong?
Hence forth, how are we going to go ahead? shall we do something the next time and wait “patiently” Thats very probable that something might happen.
Dokpa
Dear Tib friends,
First, we must accept that we are literrally in a war with China. Except we are not actively fighting.
Yes, Dalai Lama is retired. HH deserves his share or personal time. He has his own agenda like everyone of us has. Its fair.
If there is any pain out of this situation, we are ourselves to blame. Tibet belongs to Tibetans and we should be able to represent it and run it when we ragain it.
What we can do in the mean time as a citizen of Tibet? Make finanacial support and be sincere.
1. Pay green book on time.
2. Make your local representative accountable through support and by asking difficult questions. /such as:
a. what is your goal for the next 5 years?
b. what are you going to do to improve citizen economic life?
c. what kind of leadership you plan to provide?
d. what can you do differently from past Dhonchoes?
e. what new ideas do you have?
When we expect nothing from them, they deliver nothing.
3. Support creative intiative via financial help. The intiative should help exile community to become independent and objective must serve tibet as a rallying point.
We can only survice as a group. We will only have impact as a group. Thats a fact!!!! Don’t be a local hero, lets strive to become a global hereo.
To achieve any goal it demands sacrifices. We must be ready to make those sacrifices and real leaders will emerge naturally.
We can go on debating, its part of our buddhist culture but without concerete action we will achieve nothing as a nation. This fact needs no debating.
Dokpa
Dear Tibetans
I would like to appeal you all not to pay much attention to Yamyang Norbu. My reason for saying so is his writings and arguments does not serve to uplift our spirit, rather he put us in such a situation that His Holiness and our government becomes a matter of debate. At this juncture of our history we need to respect our leader and government more then ever. And we should preserve our identity and culture. We should pay more attention to people who are on path to doing that, not to intellectuals creating more confusion. Please hear me.
We dont have a government, get that in your head.
We are preserving identity by calling ourselves
Chinese and minority. What about our culture? The
Culture of appeasement and of lying? The cultur of
Tibet lies in the indominatble spirit of the highlands
Who will not bow down nor submit to oppression. Maybe
Those people died off and all we have left are bunch of
whiners and weaklings.
Muk-baha-duur!!..Action please..ladies and gentleman!!
Sonam lak,we do have a govt, only its in a bad shape. Shall we make it better?
Dokpa
Hi all,
Patient Name: Tibet
Doctor’s Name: Tibetan youths
Diagonosis: Loss of Homeland, Destitute, scattered feeling with no objective in sight, hallusination ” If I take of my family, all my life’s problem will be solved”
Medication: Violence ? Middle way path ? Local remedies?
Intervention: Doctor to implement or administer the medications.
Prognosis: Freedom or Autonomous regions within few years if the Doctor implements the remedies with unity and with intensity. Action !!!!
Dopka
Jamyangla is a great writter, full of wonderful ideas especially on matters of politics and international relations; he is the most prolific writter on the Tibetan issue and he writes with great verve and dedication and his English is just impeccable and readers just love him for that, but writing alone is not enough, he must join the hierarchy of the exile political establishment and start try translating his writings into action, may be if he so wishes he could well become the next Prime Minister,keeping in mind that forward looking and educated tibetans could favour him overwhelmingly, in case Lobsangla should misfire.
Sonam, Why should somebody work in a lame duck
organization that doesn’t rangzen as the goal? That
would stupid. Of course, if party system is introduced
and Rangzen party wins, then it makes sense for
him to work in that setup. Think before u request
such things. It makes no sense.