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By Christophe Besuchet
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I had not yet fully digested the scope of the Dalai Lama’s retirement when I was struck by a curious remarks made by Lobsang Sangay on BBC’s HARDtalk and NDTV’s Your Call. According to the newly elected Kalon Tripa, his surprising conversion to the Middle Way Approach was nothing but the result of maturity. This baffled me even more to find out that this argument had to be supported solely by a quote from Winston Churchill: “When you are young, if you are not liberal you don’t have heart, and when you are old, if you are not conservative you don’t have head.”
Looking at the current crisis faced by the Tibetan nation, I find this quote absolutely bizarre. It implies that the present dismantlement of the nation and of its governmental institutions is the logical culmination of a mature thought, and not the direct result of a disastrous and unsuccessful policy of reconciliation with Communist China launched twenty-five years earlier by the Dalai Lama. It also signals further attacks and belittlement of the issue of Tibetan independence and the marginalization of those Tibetans who still believe that Tibet’s independence can be restored.
This quote didn’t pop-up by chance, and is obviously a part of Lobsang Sangay’s “policy” speech. He repeated it word for word in both HARDtalk and Your Call, subtly adding: “So I’m right in the middle. So I have both head and heart, and I subscribe to the Middle Way policy of His Holiness the Dalai Lama as it stands today, and I support that because it’s a pragmatic approach.”
Pragmatic, conservative and intelligent. This is what Lobsang Sangay’s stance on Middle Way boils down to, if we are to accept this quote. By extension, it also implies that those thousands who believe in, fought and died for independence are good hearted but brainless citizens.
But there’s another big problem with the quote. And an embarrassing one. This quote is not from Winston Churchill as Lobsang Sangay claims. To the contrary. As explained by The Churchill Centre and by Paul Addison of Edinburgh University: “Surely Churchill can’t have used the words attributed to him. He’d been a Conservative at 15 and a Liberal at 35!” According to Wikiquote, “this quote was in fact first uttered by mid-nineteenth century historian and statesman François Guizot when he observed, ‘Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head’, and has been attributed variously to George Bernard Shaw, Benjamin Disraeli, Otto von Bismarck and others.”
Not only do I find regrettable that Lobsang Sangay had nothing else than a quote for clarifying his clumsy and embarrassing conversion to the Middle Way Approach — the source of which he didn’t even take the time to double-check —, I find a pity that he had to choose one that uses denigration as a justification. For it not only denigrates Rangzen advocates, it also denigrates the youth as well, whom, if I am correct, makes the largest part of his electorate.
It is also highly disturbing that Lobsang Sangay had to refer so often to prestigious leaders to make his point on TV and during his campaign, especially when he tries to appropriate their charisma. Would it be that Lobsang Sangay has very few arguments and thoughts of his own? Most of the leaders he refers to, be it Winston Churchill, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King, are people who fought actively for freedom with conviction and who, unlike Lobsang Sangay, never gave up on their original goals and never gave in to the might of the enemy. Referring to their struggle’s outcome to promote the surrender policy of the Middle Way is nothing but intellectual dishonesty.
Using the same method as the new Kalon Tripa, and in the hope of correcting the image given by Lobsang Sangay of this great wartime leader, let me quote two speeches of Winston Churchill, rightly attributed this time:
Never Surrender
We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing-grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!
—House of Commons, 4 June 1940, following the evacuation of British and French armies from Dunkirk as the German tide swept through France.
Never Give In
This is the lesson: never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never—in nothing, great or small, large or petty—never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
—Harrow School, 29 October 1941.
* * *
I must admit that criticizing a Tibetan prime minister before he even started his job is unfair. But one must also admit that it actually depends of the gravity of the offense and whether the criticism might be beneficial for the Premier’s tenure. Moreover, taking into account the political uncertainty brought by the recent constitutional changes and by the decision of the Dalai Lama not only to devolve his political power but also to put a definitive term to the Tibetan government, the need for scrutiny is higher than ever.
Lobsang Sangay, anyhow, deserves a chance. Even if I didn’t support his candidature, I believe that he will need the support of all of us to carry successfully his task of Premier and to make the best out of this mess. After all, we all strive to end Chinese tyranny in Tibet. This support is, however, reciprocal. The new prime minister cannot expect to rally all Tibetans and friends to his command simply on the basis that he secured 55 percent of the votes cast by exile Tibetans. If Lobsang Sangay seriously wishes unity, then he will have to make an extra effort to accommodate different opinions, in particular when it comes to the restoration of Tibet’s independence. Contempt is definitely not the best recipe.
The outgoing prime minister, Samdhong Rinpoche, has sparked a great deal of controversy and bitterness by launching a wide-scale crusade against supporters of independence. I hope Lobsang Sangay won’t fall in the same trap. On the contrary, I hope he will publicly keep a declaration of independence as an option if Beijing persists in not showing any interest at negotiating within the first year of his tenure.
just dandy – a sarah palin to head the tibetan government err… i mean, exiled tibetan association in dharamsala…sad… very sad! Inexperience already showing.
While they are at it, they should think of changing the green book collection from “thel” (tax) to “shendep” (donation).
Dr Sangay seems to be fond of quoting statistics and quotes from renowned figure, unfortunately they are almost always wrong or statistic cannot be sourced. Luckily for him there is no one to challenge him in the Tibetan community, who remains intellectually and academically challenged.
“if Beijing persists in not showing any interest at negotiating within the first year of his tenure”
Waiting for that would be simply another wasted years to add to the decades that have already been wasted ! It´s time for people not to speak about RANGZEN as an option or a wish or even worse a hope ! Now that the TGIE is no more and HH has taken His due break from carrying the load, nothing or no one that has validity can get in the way of the Cause becoming the Movement that Tibetans inside Tibet have always prayed, suffered and died for—A Tibetan Rangzen Movement ! The choice is simple…to continue down the one way street to extinction and assimilation or take on the task of being the legitimate voice of the Tibetans that have survived china´s brutal occupation. That means leaving the comfort zone and laying it on the line…no excuses ! That will defintely have impact on china´s greatest weakness–THE WEST !We will be arrested, we will be beaten, we will be sentenced ! But we will rock the boat that has been sailing back and forth filled with goodies made in the great Maotherland and has never seen a storm !That´s when we can achieve true profile and not be scorned as a bunch of new age or even old age Buddhists that are simply waiting for their next life to be better !It´s time to put up a real fight and we don´t have to go to china to do it !
@commentators,
Now the election is over, and Lobsang Sengye is soon assuming the kalong tripa office, instead of criticizing his wrong statistics and quotations, we should focus on how and what he is going to do with the hot seat. Publicly criticizing and nit-picking his follies, showing personal grievances, and prejudicing him will only hamper the unity among tibetans. Whether u personally support Lobsang Sengye or u don’t, being tibetan u should support the person who is popularly elected to the seat of kalon tripa.
And those who do not consider “Central Tibetan Administration” as their sole and legitimate representative, can withhold their annual Greenbook contribution, which is, to remind once again, not a forced duty but a voluntary contribution..
“And those who do not consider “Central Tibetan Administration” as their sole and legitimate representative, can withhold their annual Greenbook contribution, which is, to remind once again, not a forced duty but a voluntary contribution.”
And this is how you are presenting your case for Unity?
this is fucking garbage,do not blame him aby more.
I didn’t vote for LS, he wasn’t my type. But now, he is our katri and i am hoping that he will be at least better than Samdhong lama. Jamyang is right in calling us to support him and give him a chance but should have a reciprocal gesture.
LS should know that if he act reasonable and welcomes criticism and debate, Tethong supporters will reciprocate as we are mostly reasonable and intelligent people.
Anyways, Good luck LS. If possible try to change Tibetan govt. in-exile to its rightful name. Otherwise, you aren’t our PM. If the name is Exile Tibetan Association of Institution, its just an organisation for the exile people and you will be just a CEO/ Mangaer.Samdhnag is the one who pusherd for this name change. He wants to be the only and the last person to be elected directly to Tibetan Government. LS becomes the first Katri for the Tibetan administration.
Thats it.
What’s in a name? Exile gov. or association. Does it really matters as long as we get the end result. We have think why H.H proposed current policy changes.
I supported LS for the position, but now its upto him to defend for his own action.
Where are all these young courageous chinese these days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB70mWXrzEE&feature=related
What a spectacle to change Tibetan exile Government to Tibetan institute society “Bod mi degtsuk” This is so shame on Dalai Lama he cant bear to see the someone leads the Tibetan government better than Dalai lama himself. He got too attachment on his some amount work he done for Tibet. He completely destroyed Tibet finally, he is the worst king and god system country like for instance our Tibet, more worst than King Lang Darma.
Honestly he just trowing dry words on democracy, he is theocratic and trouble maker. I realized now that we Tibetans are working for him, not for country, what a nonsense.
If there is no Tibet and Tibetan’s entity then we no need you as The God and The King. You better get lost.
We know you and your family are now enough in material and became other’s country citizen, but we still need our land back.
JN La, You are working very hard but you getting no where because too intelligent or diplomatic, waste all the time. Now its too late to save Tibet and Tibetans from Dalai’s family.
HH Dalai Lama’s decision has 99.50% of Tibetan’s support and trust.
Do i have to say anymore?
They say you have to vote this way because dalai lama wants it that way… its that simple? Its all BS man…
Now the Tibetan Institution, so hard to come in terms with this new title to our exile government, should not try and lead the Tibetans in Tibet into believing that changes will happen if uprisings break in Tibet. With respect to all the freedom fighters who have sacrificed their lives and to those languishing in the prisons, it is waste of human life to sacrifice for something that your own government does not believe in.
Jayang Norbu,, what’s going on man? I think you have been criticizing the exile Tibetan Govt for your whole life as of today. What are you trying to prove man?
I thank Jamyang lak and Christophe for criticizing the CTA for all these long years. Because of criticism there is certain changes in the structure of CTA.
This is response to derlen59 | June 5th, 2011 | 4:04 pm:
Please speak for yourself – don’t use ‘WE’ in your comments. I think majority of the Tibetans support and trust His Holiness’ vision and proposal.
Shame on you for your arrogance and ignorance of what His Holiness has done for our Tibetan cause and impacted the world.
It is His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s notoriety that is upholding the Tibetan issues for discussion and Tibetans are gaining recognition.
His Holiness is the heart and soul of Tibetan people. Without His Holiness – Tibet issue does not stand a chance nor receive any attention. It will be a lost cause just like the Mongolia.
I pity you!!!
@Daveno # 111
<<<>>>>>>>>
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT NUMBER FROM?
We have to think why HH proposed those changes. could it be that china/ chinese intellectuals/ disciples urging HH into taking these steps? We already made so many cconcessions and China pays no attention so why this more and more overtures for what prupose? Is gyalo thondup has some hand in it? He thinks he knows much but he is just like an oldie chinaman.
@ Daveno # 11
Another question for you: Which came first, the decision or the support? If the Tibetans were going support whatever decisions HHDL makes, then why the pretence of having a so called “special meeting” in the first place. Why bother asking their opinion if in the end it was going to be superseded by HHDL’s decision.
Kalsang phuntsok la,
I am not sure if HHDL has invited for a special meeting.
The number is as good as i can recall all the events for and against HHDL.
HHDL gave a suggestion for the name change and OUR CHITUE APPROVED THE AMENDMENT.”It reads “TIBETAN PARLIAMENT AMENDS CHARTER”.
The wrong brother is the architect of this ‘middle way’ approach from ‘alpa to omega’. Unfortunately the Good brother is no more. Otherwise there could have been leverage for Rangzen wallahs.
For wu-thuk La,
This game is became very old, putting label that those who wants stand for their rights, you puppet using that game, oh, he is Chinese spy and financing from from China or you are pity Dalai Lama is Buddha and god and king, he knows everything, bla bla bla, I am just wondering when you guys will waking up and do something by yourself, There is no earth underneath your feet. OMG, still in 13th cen…..
The so called Chitui is a fake and they are the serfs of the Dailai Lama and they can do nothing but just follow what the old monk said. The Tibetans in in India never learn listen from history and they still blandly following an old monk who claims that he has some kind of super natural power and can predict the future of Tibet and so on.How many wrong decisions this old monk have taken so far including the Panchen Lama’s in reincarnation, worship of the deity and the dissolving the legitimate governemt and so on and so forth. wake up Tibetans!!!!!
I remember the Dalai Lama himself was telling that he was told that religion was poison by Mao zedong.The Dalai Lama still does not understand why Mao made such a statment which in fact is insightful and rational in the context of socio-economic development and the message Mao wanted to send his communist admirer the Dailai Lama was that too much religious involvement in the public life is not right.
It is pity to hear that the Dalai Lama does not want to be even the symbol of the Tibetan nation which is actually the sources of his reputation and his spiritual home instead he is going to promote harmony between religions of the world.
The Dalai Lama claims King and Gandi are the precedents and example for his action and many people are also like to compare him with those freedom fighters,but how much they are comparable and how much has this simple monk achieved in comprison with King and Gandi in term of gaining freedom for his people, this is questionable and as a matter of fact beside the boring mantra of compassion and tolerance and so called middle (the lazy way)way, as well as length lecture for New Age spiritual hungers in the west,what and how much he can do?
If he really does care about Tibet and its people,and he sincerely want to preserve its culture and want to be a real freedom fighter for Tibet, then he should come out of the palace to joint people who have been struggling in New Dheli and the city of New York and even should think of leading the Tibetan people in exile to their homeland by crossing the Himalaya ranges and confronting the the gun of the enemy like what King and Gandi once did in their struggle.Only under such a circumstance you really can earn the ultimate respects not only from Tibetan people but also the people around the world, and only then you filfull the mission of being as the Dalai Lama.Otherways, you are really just “a simple monk” as you always say!!!!!!!!!!!
If chitue are fake and serfs,we are responsible for that.We elected those goddame chicken-head as our Rep. to make the decision for us.
I am perfectly fine and happy for HHDL complete retirement from politics and even rejecting the head of the state stuff.
I am not fine with the name change to an institution.Delete ‘Ghaden phodrang’ and leave the rest as is ‘tsenchoel boeshung’.
NA two chitue will be getting lots of email to propose to reverse the name change.
We are looking forward to retirement from religion too, he makes a lot of controversial within Tibetan Buddhism. We all know that he is trying TO stain the Buddha Dharma with mixing the personal interest.
YOU OUT FROM TIBET BUSINESS! TODAY AND RIGHT NOW…..
WE SHOULD CREATE SCENARIO AS MIDDLE EAST IN DHARAMSALA FASCIST AND DICTATORSHIP BASE.ATTENTION FOLKS WE KNOW THAT HE DESTROYED THE TIBET FUTURE IN POLITICS AND HE RETIRED, NOW HE WILL DO DIFFIDENTLY THE SAME WAY AFTER DESTROY THE RELIGION OR SPIRITUAL IF YOU LIKE, AND HE WILL RETIRE. RAISE YOUR VOICE TO SAY NO RELIGION LEADER DALAI LAMA.
@Derlen59
吃你的屎 add some tomato seepen!
DERLEN @59
How HH is trying to stain buddha dharma? you begin to sound like the diety worshipper. If you are not, stick to what we talking about right now and not about buddha dharma.
Davend,
“two chitue will be getting lots of email to propose to reverse the name change”
This is a wonderful idea and every one who oppose the change of the name send petition to the two chitui to launch another additional meeting soon.No more HH please and please,,,,
By the way, who are the two chitui-the player(goalkeeper most likely) of daramsala team (drigzug in Tibetan)? hahaha
@ Jangbu la
Please do not make fun of our MPs and administration. Although I too do not endorse the change of name, but there are important reasons to that. It has been legislated by our parliament and Rinpoche’s explanation is here
http://www.tibetonline.tv/videos/660/tibetonlinetv-news-june-3,-2011
Lets us be responsible in our remarks, and think of what each one of us are doing.
Yeh,I checked that video…
Note around the 29:11 minute of the video…he clearly makes his ideology known.Here is how I heard:
“… the Parliament tried to learn the people’s opinion. Whatever the people’s opinion (one should ask) who has the authority to make laws? Once people elect their representative they have surrendered all power to make laws to the parliament…”
And he goes on to say that is how democracy works.
This man never fails to shock me.
who is the speaker of Chitui, has Sadong elected as the speaker of the chitui recently?
KP la,
I watched the video too, Kalon Tripa Rinpoche clear detail explanation with chronology dating back to 5 decades includes almost everything, and not only past Rinpoche was very precise in future too.
Reading your above note shocks me deadly because a) Rinpoche is our current Kalon Tripa, b) Rinpoche is a Tulku, c) Rinpoche has worked so hard for our community for last 50 years and you have zero respect to this kind and gentle elder human being.
I cannot go on to listen Samdong’s uniqueness on sophistry, he did not squander his time in the monastery.If you Listen his words carefully, this man saying nothing but like the chinese saying:There is no silver 320 here–a guilty person conspicuously protests his innocence.
Jangbu la,
My above note applies to you too.
Obama:
Two Phenchen lama,
two karma pa,
Lack of time i have to stop here if you insist then i have to write you whole dirty list of DL.
Jamyang, wishing you well and speedy recovery
Please do not disrepute JN’s blog by being irresponsible in our remarks, unless you are being paid to do so. S.Rinpoche bashing wont contribute a bit to Tibetan democracy, and he is the best Kalon Tripa that we have so far.
What some of the comments made here show pitfalls of a democracy of uninformed citizens. This is what we call in Tibetan “དགྲ་དགའ་གཉེན་སྡུག”
SR in this video is basically trying get away on technicality whether any principle of democracy was violated or not in this whole constitution amendment debacle. Obviously, he denies any violation. But that is not what the real argument is about. Although a legitimate case can be made and proved on the basis of testimonies of those who attended the special meeting that the democratic principles were clearly violated when the majority decision not to change the name of the exile government was ignored. However, the real question everyone should be asking is whether the end result of this exercise was good for the future of the Tibetans (be it Autonomy or Rangzen) cause or not. I would say NO. I welcome HHDL devolving his political powers to the elected leadership, but he should and must allow “Ganden Phodrang” and the office of the Dalai Lama to be the head of the state for symbolic, political, legal, historical and even spiritual reasons at least until a workable solution to the Tibetan situation is in sight. If he had done so I would have challenged anyone who argued that it’s undemocratic. SR argues that HHDL’s denial to stay as constitutional head of state is not a violation of democracy. It may be not, but it surely feels like a violation of something.
Keeping the name “Tibetan Government in Exile” now, in the post HHDL scenario, it will face a definite legal challenge from law of Land of India coupled with Sino-Indian geopolitics. All crying foxes out there, what will be your solution at least in general for such a problem? We are based in foreign land and subjected to the law of the land. Most of the people who comment are very emotional about it, which is a good thing, but lacks true knowledge how things work. TGIE is an informal use of name for CTA. Even foreign journalists report as TGIE even though the formal name is CTA. It is an understood thing. If foreigners do unstand it, then why is it so hard for us as Tibetns to get it? Is our name important or our mission important? In all legal and official documents, CTA is the name of our Tibetan institute or government or organization or NGO, whatever you call it or despise it. Only in Tibetan language, we have been using Tsenjol Bhodshung. If you think that other foreigners have to know about our hypocrisy and inconsistency because you think you are the real advocate of democracy without taking into consideration of our national future, then crying to the world about our political inconsistency at least in terms of terminology, well fine, let change it to Bhodmi Zhigzug. How about that? We will start teaching Bodmi zhigzu instad of Tsenjol Bodshung in our schools and our kids and let them know it is an NGO. How about that? We also trust in what we heaar, not what is the reality. We dont evne tend to spend more our times to researches because we dont have time. The result is, you can either be ignorant dudes or manipulated crying donkey. We became emotional because some more informed people write something, and taking everything true to his or her written articles, without even iotas of self-research.
NG
Hey guys,
I Like to read the comments but i loathe people talking expressing emotion in polictics.And RANGZEN WALAS,please come up a plan as how to get back our RANGZEN.You guys have been talking for several decades but failed to walk the talk.Barking dogs seldom bite!It’s the easiest to critize which is very common,you know where and of the criticism I find here are rather destructive,divided and dislike.If You guys can do something for our cause,please come on the stage and speak to us.We are not intelligent but we understand what is right and what is wrong!So lets talk about the plan as how to execute the RANGZEN GOAL.I am ready for it but I don’t need a gun makes big bangs but no targets killed!
“Misattribution of quotes just to get people to take their message more seriously is something that must be seriously frowned upon.” = Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
HH must have been been urged by Indian govt who must been pressured by chinese govt. But it would have made things so much clearer if HH gave a little explanation and most people can understand his position. But without that there are all kinds of speculations flying around. we should be careful not get carried away. and anyway its clear that lamas mind set and lay people mindset is so different so bear in mind that and besides lamas have throughout been worshipped and treated like god and always have “yes men ” so its very unnatural and difficult situation to be in. Its not easy and cant blame on just one factor only. Thanks to the lamas buddhist practise and wisdom and insights otherwise god only knows how the situation is for them. If any offensive by mistake i’m apologising now only.
Give Rangzen a Chance., Next Term should we have a katri candidate.
boe mi driktsuk dhand dhen pa nyid Nampar gyal gyur chik!
It is time for all the Tibetan blood man converge in front of the United Nation,I am painting my chest with the words appeared in the bodies of these three brave men from Nyarong, see you all there on Sunday!
All.
IF YOU CAPABLE YOU CAN MAKE NEW COUNTRY EVEN YOU DON’T HAVE HISTORY OF THAT AND OTHER HAND IF YOU ARE NOT THEN YOU HAVE ERASE YOUR HISTORY AND BEG TO ENEMY TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING.
THESE COUNTRIES DON’T HAVE ANY CHINREZEG OR GOD,
NEPAL, SRILANKA, BUTAN AND MANY EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRY, BUT THEY RUNNING THE COUNTRY.
BEST THINGS WE CAN DO IS….
DL HAS TO GO OUT OF TIBET MATTERS AND SR SHOULD BE SCHOOL PRINCIPAL OR ABBOT ROLE IN MONASTERY IS VERY SUITABLE…
THESE TWO RED THEY REALLY DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE POLITICS MEANS…. THEY ARE MORE LIKE DOING ROMANTIC OR TEASING OTHER SOMETHING LIKE
THAT…..
WHAT A WASTE!!!!!!
dene59
Look like again the buddhism. what wrong with him..
may be Mr.Derlen59 got huge money from PRC or shukten tsok pa
oooops Derlen59!!
See this is my personal thought. I belief best politics can be played by some one who is practicing buddhism. Be it monk, nun or lay I mean to say uncorrupted, selfless and thoughts for others. I wonder if you have any knowledge about these two great personalities. HH Dalai Lama and Sangdon Rinpoche. They have nothing for them, i mean materialistic. Faiths apart, just observe them as you admire some on of your idol. i mean just give a bit of critical thinking abilities in you. Then you will realize. Why Chinese are against having a cup of coffee with HH Dalai Lama in China! What, can’t they effort? i heard they are one of the richest economy now a days! for the simple reason they are afraid to be peeled off by seeing the real man from what they have been accusing him to their own people. Coz’ its truth and simple truth and thats what we have been taught, living life based on principles. Principles you can’t change! its universal and timeless. Ofcourse when there are things to be debate for sure we will do it. So my friend where ever you are whatever you do, and whatever you write try using bit of your critical thinking approach. I hope you know what i am saying. All the best in your life.
I heard few $0.25 CCP army got interested in the recent events..LOL!!MF..feces eater!
cleanpolitic,
these two donkey head monk do not know real politic. Why they are becoming some sort of popular is that they are in front of our great peope with rich cultural tradition and unique geographic location. without this they are nothing but wandrering monks,so they should treasure the chance given to them by the peope of tibet and make sure you are chosen to be a freedom fighter for tibet not misionary for the west and messebger for the prc.
Rinwang and daveno, you could remain that way…. i don’t care but for cleanpolictics, just to say you that they got power and many hidden materialism in different form and different names… they are drown in attached on power and fame….
I think materialism not that much worst than dictatorship….
we are the one who pushing so hard that these two red are out from politics from Tibet…… the result we saw it very clear resigned so on…. common guys keep it up unless they completely go out from Tibet issues.
We are on right path having PM and clean democratic system in our society….
YES WE CAN……
If we don’t do this way they will never ever become changeable…they ruin our country.
Never let them do those dirty things on us.
I do respect them when they settle in their own nest, DL in cave of Dharamsala, SR in monastery of south India, then i am going to love it….. Otherwise zero respect b’cause of our past bad experience histories…
Hey Christophe,
How about you mind your own business, Tibetans have to take matters into their own hands. You and your condescending drivel can shove it.
Jamyang Norbu, you fucking violent bitch, you allowed this foreign prick to post this on your site, fuck you!
Now, I really doubt the intention of JN. If you are really an Indipendence staunch beleiver why are you making a point by criticizing/creating gossips about middle way policy which is exactly what the chinese want and in this way aren’t you playing their game ?
Otherwise make your firm stand point and challenge the chinese regime stand and don’t create an additional conflict among the tibetans. You can have yours idea but the way to achieve is not by pulling the legs of middle way followers. Finally all of us want a free Tibet.
It seems you have mistaken the target, or it is intentionally ? Let me right away clear that I am not labelling you but yours strange way to promote “Rangzen” by criticising ALWAYS the middle way policy blindly has sprouted me this doubt. I will be happy if this doubt will come out only to be fruit of my paranoia.
This week question…
Do you know how many bank account and share hold for DL?
In India stop bothering DL b’cause biggest industry share holder is DL and he put SR is in charge of this business.
My friends don’t fool yourself… looking up in moon and begin to oh DL appears in moon, what typical red face….
Tibetan #56,
Well said! I’m sure everyone here will be impressed by your burst of intelligence, your courageous anonymity and especially the depth of your argument. Your dramatic plea is definitely needed, though perhaps not in the way you expected.
Christophe, the foreign prick
Hi Christophe,
I was actually feeling quite enraged by your post, that I typed the way I felt at the time. I do apologize for the harshness and brevity of my point, but sometimes I feel people are always condescending towards Tibetan people, including so called intellectuals (not necessarily foreign or Chinese, ie. the so called intellectual J.L.). At least my “burst of intelligence” was without a hint of ulterior agendas. If one chooses to subscribe to the Rangzen approach, so be it, but do so without condescension and a veiled approach. You employ a tactic of poking fun of Lobsang’s mistake in order to satisfy your seething appetite for condemnation of what he may have implied about young Rangzen advocates. I am Tibetan, and a rather young one at that, so I should be someone that should feel insulted by Lobsang’s quote according to your article, but I was not. If I elaborate here, we are going to get into the Rangzen/Middle way debate, but rather, I am just tired of being told what we should feel. Additionally, you took a quote, a mistaken one at that, and to be simple about it, mocked it to meet your underlying message’s end. I have no time for such a classless style. It is apparent you write well and intelligently, I don’t mean to be condescending to you as well, but I was just fed up with articles with that tone. We are trying to build a better world, and people continue to type in a manner that is vehement and vitriolic, or full of sarcasm and mockery, is there no other way to get our point across? Have we been stuck in the world of intellectual arguments for so long that we have lost sight of our veiled transgressions? Clear and simple, can you use your immense intelligence to write articles that are not so mean spirited and condescending in the future? I will work on posting more constructive comments in the future, and will look to be more civil whilst doing so. Although I did not show it until now, I appreciate your interest in the issues of Tibet, and apologize for my intelligent outburst. I also, however feel you are not a “foreign prick” (any longer), may I say I was misquoted?
The Intelligent Outburster Himself,
Mr. Hiding Behind a Computer Screen Shrouded in Anonymity
oh my Gosh….I saw HHDL in the moon last night…how fortunate am I! Does this bother anyone? If so, go and fuck your mother first and come out and ponder deeply about you are saying. Democracy, freedom, liberty, and so forth, everything has a limit and everyone has own faith, belief, spirituality, and what you call it. Don’t impose your fucking idiot attitude. If you something to discuss, be it substantial instead of unfounded name calling.
NG
# 60, you are not so anonymous. Its obvious you get pricked everytime somebody write about Lobsang Sangay. very obvious. If only you could use your intelligence and writting skills for something bigger purpose. And be a little appreciative of this forum where we can share honest opinions but not be driven by personal agendas.
Pasang, I laughed so hard, because this is one of the very rare occasions I have ever been to Jamyang’s blog. I don’t have a personal agenda whatsoever, in fact, I didn’t even vote for Lobsang Sangay to be abundantly clear. It was the tone and nature of Christophe’s post, and perhaps the fact he thought it was clever using the ruse of Lobsang’s quote to hide his true message. I simply perceived Christophe’s post as conniving and condescending towards Tibetans, I am not defending Lobsang (look I even called him by his first name, clearly not a sign of respect!)
1.Kashang,shapay,kudrak,regent 1920-1948 = Thank you all for the betrayal,selfish attitude and fooling the population ( May you all rest in peace).
2.CCP = thank you for waking us up, we will repay your kindness penny by penny (may you go to nyalwa thignak)
3.India= thank you for mistaking us as chinese by our looks,making us part of china.( we will repay your kindness,but dont be alarmed if repayment went to pakistan,we are your student)
4.Amrica=Thank you for the support but we have no oil and not so useful for geopolitics (May God bless amrica).
5.Others =thank you for all the financial and emotional support.(may you research more on the cure to our wound)
6.Tibetan = release your anger by banging one from china town long and hard.No make senses but works like magic.
Hi Christrophe,
By looking at the present European Union new reality,if you try to understand literally the first quote it looks not only outdated but ridiculious! Isn’t so?
I really doubt about the JN in this year, still he is barking on the LS,if You are not satisfy its better to suicide your self in the western community.
If you have an idea of prejudice in your brain,first you should know it is a cause of destruction and gape in the exile community.Even if you are shouting or crying, the LS is now our leader and we should respect him, if we are not respect Kalontripa which elected by major Tibetan, then it is just like irrespective action to our self.Also its can fulfill the demand of R China.
Re #64, Daveno, you you forgot to thank our holy monks (kushoks). That should go in your no. 1.
Also, forgot to thank BAba phuntsok wangyal and Ngaboe for betraying the Tibetan.
Yours Agu
Christophe,
Thank you for pointing out the misquote. Intellectual integrity is important to become a whole human being. It will be beneficial for the Tibetans to have a leader who is honest from every angle.
I hope you will keep on being interested in Tibet because if you stop I know we will cease to have this blog for example. Get well soon Jamyang la
Dank u
what has become of JN? When the Dalai Lama was at the peak of his political leadership, JN attacked him. When Samdhong Rinpoche came to power, he victimised him. Now look, JN’s bad eyeing on LS. Shame on u Rangzen Pola.
Socrates, gadfly. ring a bell?
LS had a landslide victory in the election with 55% of votes…considering Obama’s 53%(USA) and David Cameron’s 36%(UK). This bear clear testament to the fact that LS enjoys popular approval amongst reasonable masses.
Rangzen polas and molas should get a life and move on. Don’t cling on to pre-election resentment like old colonial wives! esp. rangzen pola JN.
Keep Thumping yourselves on the back – Short term VISION and victory.
Cut the nose to spite the nose.
Old monk you sound so much like Lobsang sangay. with lots of facts and figures, stats and not to forget quotes but with little substance. what can i do? i cant help it. i’m just the opposite so i detect easily.btw, i’m proud to be a ranzenwala and not some half baked go with the flow kind a person.
where is rangzen pola JN is hiden these days?
Sorry that LS’s landslide win has been eclipsed by the recent events in Dharamsala. Most Tibetans are consumed by the outcome that was 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. So Old monk your adolescent taunts and flaunts just fall by the way side……DUH..
Too bad that LS’s landslide win has been eclipsed by the recent events in Dharamsala. Most Tibetans are consumed by the outcome that was 2 steps forward, 3 steps back. So Old monk can’t you come up something better than ADOLESANT taunts and flaunts ……duh…..
Thank you Jamyang N.la, for getting people charged with their opinions.Some funny,some not so funny,some sensible,some not so sensible,and others quite angry that need perhaps some anger management.All in all,pretty entertaining.But I have a question to all of us (myself included) why is every body so caught up with “I am rangzen believer” or “I am a middle way path believer”and says nothing else to define it. To the rangzen believers, why don’t you write something to explain why you think we should fight for rangzen and convince others your conviction for Tibet’s independence by pointing out some kind of historical facts and figures,about treaties signed,where and between who and who etc. etc.Like wise middle way path believers should give reasons why they believe in what they believe.I do not think it is enough to say ,I believe in middle way path because His Holiness said so.His Holiness has said it time and again that it is His opinion.That means He has given us the opportunity to express our own truthful and honest constructive opinions too.My understanding is that His Holiness did not dictate the middle way path on us.Therefore TYC stands for “TIBETAN INDEPENDENCE” yet they fully respect and honor His Holiness like the rest of the Tibetans and hold Him to the highest esteem.I am a rangzen supporter.But I equally respect middle way path believers for their believes.So why cat fight?
Tibet for Tibetans #78,
Jamyang Norbu has already worked on that.
Rangzen Charter: The Case for Independent Tibet
http://bit.ly/iJbZnz
Independent Tibet – The Facts
http://bit.ly/b1tJrl
TRULY I TOO FELT STRANGE WHEN DR. LOBSANG SINGYE RELLIED TOO MUCH ON THE QUOTES OF WINSTON CHURCHILL AND OTHER FAMOUS PERSONALITIES, IT WAS AS IF HE DONT HAVE A IDEA OF HIS OWN , I STRANGELY FELT AS IF I WAS JUST LISTENING TO A SPEECH DELIVERY AT SCHOOL. TRULY, NO DOUBT HE HAS IDEA OF HIS OWN, AND HE REALLY NEEDS TO REFLECT MORE ON IT RATHER EMBARASSING TIBETAN PEOPLE WITH OTHERS IDEA.
Tibet for Tibetans: # 79 Christophe has directed you to some very good information.
BTW Rangzenwallas come in all categories. From the socio-religious conservatives members of CG community to the educated liberal and all the rest of us in between. We don’t come in one ‘box’; thankfully.
Being a Tibetan I really want to see LS do well especially representing us to world. But sometimes I think of: ‘BS can take you to the top but it won’t help keep you there’. But again I think LS will even make through that. Good luck.
Thank you all for your comments and advise.I agree with all of you.Lot of people have said and wrote on rangzen topic.Believe you me,Rangzen Charter by Jamyang Norbu la is with me constantly.I am not the most fanatic reader nor am I too intelligent to grasp things quickly.Please know that,this is not being sarcastic.It’s the truth about myself…more a confession for trying to fit myself with all of you,mostly young (I am proud of you all)and real bright, intelligent futures of future Tibet.
The books on Tibet and its past history are written in vast numbers.So those of you who have read them should not leave them behind… back in the books.Talk and discuss about them like Jamyang Norbu la does.Jamyang Norbu la is not just a great writer in our community.He is a great public educator according to the way I look at his works.
There are great many other Tibetan scholars.If you noticed some of them,you would notice, or at least get a sense that they are talking to a certain categories of scholars of high level… historians/intellects.Could this have some thing to do with arrogance? Not necessarily.I think they may not be in constant contact with main stream,rather the common and lesser informed people.I think Jamyang-la travels between both these levels.That is why you find him always so at ease, sure of himself at all time…a scholar like with scholars and a commoner like with commoners.In some of his talks,I found it most interestingly close my heart when he talked of future lives of the Tibetans drinking “chang” in some small chang-khang some where in Bhakhor etc in an “INDEPENDENT TIBET”.How beautiful is an idea like that?Don’t you think our chang loving palalaas and amalaas would understand that sentiment and love that idea,that fantasy! I would think so.Perhaps they might feel and understand that,here is a man who includes us because,we matter to him in his conversation.That’s the way I felt about him.
Sorry,it got bit wordy.Like I have confessed earlier,I do not know how better to express myself than this.
I would like conclude this again ask all of you to express yourselves,paraphrase things of importance and simplify for likes of me.
Thank you for all your time.
Honest to Goodness Pasang and other ‘ innocents’ – just a tip: please do not invoke ‘R’ word that sounds fanatical, dogmatic or rigid. Otherwise everything else seems to go. BTW: Tibet for Tibetans are you the PR. Image/Damage control Patrol for Blog? Just joke. Just joking. BTW2 this is a very good blog , may be the only one of the kind.
old monk please tell me you’re not LS coz whatever little hope i have will be dashed to the ground.
i too would like to have a leader i admire and respect like everybody else so i want to see LS become that leader who will inspire all of us and lead us to freedom like old monk wrote months ago. my fingers are crossed.
and blackberry i know i am the innocent types who use lot of taboo words. i cant help it. whatever happens happens.
I like your criticism….
Calm down guys. The Dalai Lama wants to fight China as an “ordinary monk” with no political profile. Mind you. His words then will ever more be powerful. He is not abandoning Tibet, nor is he doing the same to Tibetans. He is changing his tactics.
Here once again Dalai Lama proofed he is not a buddha and knows everything…. He lied on this interview pretending doesn’t know the Pizza Shop, really ha ha… check this out man…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlIrI80og8c&feature=share
Derlen59,
Certainly he si wiser than your parents and all grandparents added together. Are they known to people from various social, political, religious background,and so forth? If not, stop the stupidity. If you cannot have a decent and respectful talk even if we differ on important topics. Then, you are in the wrong boat.
Get a life
NG
He he he! Derlen59 just earned $0.25 = 1.60 cny.
Grow up guys,
Criticise, criticise criticise but with your brain always. lets see how LS will tackle his new role with no governments to govern.
In the meantime, enjoy JN’s web log.
Be wise though.
YOurs Agu.
Yo get over it. I think some people mad cow here. Everyone can critize but nobody came out do as Lobsang did. Who cares you voted for him or not. He won and he is PM of Tibet exile. so what!
Jamyang Norbu lak, this is my assessment of you.
1. I know you desire the best for Tibet. But, please ask yourself if you choose the any path and acted on it? Your critisisms are true in many ways, but did your methods work? Probably you know that there are lots of youth who wants to do something but are totally lost as to what to do in foreign lands with little room for menovoer. I was one such youth who looked up to you for leadership.
2. As you can see this block is creating some sort of movement and energy. For many its a healing process but will we get the time and opportunity to pass this stage and heal? Will you live long enough to see that time of healing. I am not against this blog, I am just afraid that it may be a long time before we reach a time to heal.
3. I am not too surprised at recent change in name change and there is not clear cut reason or rhyme. This has always been how things are done in Gangkyi. As evident, such situation will send people into a spriral speculation and will be left to creat there own reasons. I absolutlely do not buy the floating reason” legal case”. If there is a reason they should tell us, these days people are ready to understand reasons.
Dokpa
Why does it seem like suddenly we see all these
Idiots come out of the woodworks. Before u
Question JN, u need to look at ur own silly ass
And answer it urself. Too many idiots, no wonder
We can’t tell the difference.
It is easy to WRITE from SAFE and CONFORT ZONE! It is an interesting hobby for many people who lost in indentity crisis in the west. BIG MOUTH, no action and no impact! But considering oneself as the only politically enlightened being. This is the world!
NG
Had we listen to JN since the 80’s we should see a sea of changes and difference from his insight. It was jamyang Norbu and few like him that made the case that without independence as our goal we are doomed. Indeed, after 30 years, we are doomed with no goal and government. Don’t blame JN for that. He wasn’t our political leader but an outspoken scholar and patriot.
If we trust/pray to him like we did to Samdhong for the last 10 years, we should see a result. If we workship him like Ngabo and baba Phuntsok Wangyal, (Chinese Collaborator) like our TGIE and its populace did/do, then the fruits of our endeavor should have come to fruition.
If Ngaboe and Phuntsok Wangyal deserves so much praise from our people for being a traitor, how come JN deserve so much lower treatment than those traitors? Why don’t we just respect this brave, sharp-shooter, scholar, patriot, freedom fighter and give him some credit for letting us think out of the box and made our leaders stand on their toes.
When we have treated our own patriot such lowly and didn’t heed to his wisdom, we have forfeited our right to question him and his strategies and ideas. Besides, if we have question, pls save it for Samdhong lama.
Ofcourse, you have the right to challenge his ideas. And if having a “big Mouth” and considering writing an “easy” and Interesting hobby, please rebuttal with rhymes and reasons. The blog is open and you can write in TPR, Phayul or you can start your own web log. We’ll then see if your writing sparks this much discussion.
Always, Pls remember that wether you are for Rangzen or Autonomy we all care and wish the best for Tibetan and Tibet. Especially, When we have only a handful that can write with such authority, we must welcome and respect their ideas. After all, we all agree to disagree.
There are many who thinks/writes as if JN has an evil design over TGIE. If he does have such, he would definitely accepted the Chinese overtures to “Return to the Motherland” like in essence Ngabo did and Phuntsok Wangyal did some 50+ years ago.
Waiting eagerly for the next article.
Yours AGU
Newgeneration, u cannot even write under your own
name, and u think Jamyang Norbu has a big
Mouth? I have read ur comments on this blog and I can
Safely say u are the one with the big mouth with nothing
To show, and probably a coward too. U have nothing
Good to say about JN and yet u keep showing up like
A lost puppy. I think u are one of those people who
thinks highly of themselves and when real intellectual jaggurnats like JN
Gets the deserved acclaim, u die a little inside everyday. It is
Plain to everybody, whether u like JN’s essays and
Political criticisms, he is a force to be reckoned with and
somebody we should be proud of. U are not in the
Same league, i am sorry to say. U can go ahead and
support this suicide plan but don’t fault us for not
Putting our heads in the guillotine with u. Peace.
sorry about the text align, writing from phone.
A blog is a place where you write your thoughts. JN will not appreciate if his blog is empty of any comments.
But, before you write it will really help if you give yourself sometime to think. Reactive and combustable comments will not help the discussion. Neither emotional outburst will get our freedom back.
Healthy criticism and debate is a democratic process. If you lean towards one before hearing the other is a “bias”.
Happy commenting
Dokpa
RANGZEN CONFERENCE in DC on JULY 4
How is life in the WEST? All these big mouth people are far away from the reach of CCP, not just the big mouth individuals, also their families…..so you can prtend you are the only patriot and brave and know what is good for Tibetans in Tibet. Shall we call you a patriot and brave or useless coward with head full of empty thoughts or clueless chinky amongst the whites? Oh wait, JN’s entire family moved to India long time back, so whenever he writes on whatever topics, nobody picks on his family and persecute them. Am an ringing a reality bell or something else? Most these idiots with big mouth, does not even know where Tibet starts and where it ends. Are you still sure that you know best? Forget about u-tsang, kham, and amdo terminologies, these are traditional words which no longer has meaning in real geographical and administrative division, can you tell and list all the places? We not just seeing BIG MOUTH on this blog, also in real life, we came across a bunch! Keep talking dudes…keep going….I am 100% sure you will not let go of your comfort zone and will not let your family to suffer by CCP because of Tibetan cause. So be brave or coward whatever you like to be. Cheers!
You decide whether you are brave patriot or clueless coward with a big mouth!
NG
every tibetan who enters into the electoral office of tibetan govt in exile (be it ATPD or Kashag) tend to change their political stance. I was wondering be it for the goodness of tibetan struggle or be a political maneuvering to win the election. The only person who understood the ultimate political battle is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Except him all of the present elected tibetan leaders are in fact not a political leader to carry on the battle, but to head the exile administration.
We need a leader who can be as firm as steel in terms of political ideology. The manner in which we are fighting for freedom lacks both ideological strength and political support base even within us.
Dr. Lobsang Sangyey’s recent shift in political ideology is big lost as no one expect him for the same. His victory of election is a frenzied need for young leadership as we’re fully aware of the political experience of his rival candidates veteran Kasur Tethong and Tashi Wangdue la.
I was really impressed with the way Prime Minister elect Dr. LS responded to the NDTV interview. However, the interview presented to him by BBC HARDTALK as it was termed had a us little baffled with new PM’s response.
However, I wish him all the best for his tenure and hope he can bring not only hope as he did, but also real freedom.
The unilateral decision of your fight for Tibet’s complete independence is myth. If you’re considering yourself as a critic I’d always appreciate your intellectual comments and anti-Middle Path Way approach. However, I was wondering why you’re not contesting yourself election for any post for the electoral office to make change within
It would be hard for you to change the political mindset of the tibetans given the fact that most of the tibetans in disporas haven’t yet found the taste of political intellectual lessons.
I’d therefore, suggest you to change the system from within than from outside.
Tenin Pamnor
To fight alone with “shing Mendha” was outdated.We no longer can rely on people who got trained in operating ‘Shing Mendha’.
Then all journalists, writers and thinkers from worldwide of progressive, moving forward countries are just ‘big mouths’.
These international ‘big mouths’ just stay atop current news , keep distance from main seat of politics to maintain ethnics of journalism and not be ‘big mouth pieces’ of big bosses. That is all – just big mouths.
@# 103 Tenzin Pamnorla:
And ALSO: For healthy vibrant democracy –indepenant journalism writing & thinking can contribute to checks & balance. So also vibrant diverse community. If matured – then they will check on each other – civil and respect and good reasoning, not personal but no place of scared honest confrontation – not in democracy I hope. Journalist don’t make politicians always – different animals. But influencing is there too – definitely.
Samdong Rinpoche told the Tibetan Government in Exiled is not rolled back (actually they have no right to do so). If TGiE is not rolled back, where is it? The Central Tibetan Administration in Dharamsala? No, it says it is Exiled Tibetan’s Association on written paper. Now where is Tibetan Government? If you want to make officially this Association as Tibetan Government in Exile, now it is needed to declare so in written form, as it does for the change from government to association.
Hey New Generation!
You are just a “big Mouth” Old generation, with same way of thinking. It remind me of those old stories when Tibetan first came into exile and in the midst of their hard life as road construction worker announced that they will be resettling to the southern India.
All hell broke loose, so to speak. They refused vehemently first thinking that going farther from the himalayan ranges will harm our national struggle. Besides, they are thinking that Rangzen is on the horizon and they;ll have a hard time relocating back to Tibet.
Same thinking dude… Does it ring a bell in your small brain? You and some religious conservative worries about tibetan going to the west. HH the Dalai lama is very supportive of this initiative and He is very happy to see Tibetans here remaining actively engaged in our cause.
The Greenbook contribution from the Tibetan from the West, is a good and juicy by-product of Tibetan migration for the TGIE and its subjects in India. If not thankful, do not curse or hate them that much with such big mouth trash talk.
I don’t know how many red stamps you have it on your IC. I feel sorry for you. But given an opportunity, you’ll come join them. I would if i get visa. What’s there to stay in India? Whats more patriotic to stay in India if what you do is only big mouth trash talk and divide among us. Instead, if we Tibetan in India has atleast one family member in the west, our life will be much better.
Whoever, initiated the go-west program, may s/he live long. Our life has improved so much. we didn’t have rely so much on the foreing donations for our siblings education. Our friends and family in the west can send some money for our education and can pursue whatever we want. Thats why, today we have so many professional.
Thank you Tibetans in the west. More Tibetan the merrier in the West. Keep paying Greenbook contribution, so that our organisation CEO and program coordinators will get their pay check our breathen in settlement will have representative of Tibetan Association of Dharamsala (which used to called TGIE).
Tibetan Association in Exile Gyalo… What?????????
Yours agu.
What is “Shing Mendha?” Thank you.
“shing mendha” sounds like “wooden gun.”
Wow…if fighting for a just cause and stating
What is undeniably facts about our own national
struggle is being Big Mouth, then i guess u have
a different standard. At the same time, by ur own
Logic, aren’t u being a big mouth yourself as u
cannot claim to have the best solution for Tibetans
In tibet? U might be, under some standards,
Considered a Traitor for trying to muzzle the voice
Of conscience and freedom. Remember Ngabo?
His overriding reason for selling out Tibet runs along
the same vein. No wonder, he is a patriot. What
Do u think? Is he a patriot? He sure talks like
U.
And, since HH was fighting for Rangzen for
The first 20 years, would that make HH a big
Mouth too by your own logic?
“derlen59” or “derlen59s”,you must had an abnormal,anguished and pathetic childhood,I guess you’d came through a lot inhuman abuses,I really have pity on freaks like you.Though I’ve gone through all your crazy barks and am able to disprove all of them,that won’t help you any. Freak like you will always argue by talking insane B.S. but not reasons. For your unstable mind,I’ve got you four lines of wisdom,hope it’s capable of easing your pain,but if God’s blind that he makes you mentally retarded as well, ask some normal people to explain it to you. By the way,FYI,I’m a pure Rangzen advocate.
ཉོན་མོངས་གོམས་ན་གཉེན་པོས་བཟློག་དཀའ་བས།།
དྲན་ཤེས་སྐྱེས་བུས་གཉེན་པོའི་མཚོན་བཟུང་ནས།།
ཆགས་སོགས་ཉོན་མོངས་དང་པོ་སྐྱེས་མ་ཐག །
འབུར་འཇོམས་བྱེད་པ་རྒྱལ་སྲས་ལག་ལེན་ཡིན།།
New Generation:
Each time we do something Dalai lama interfere us and spending lots of money to stop us then how we gonna do, if Dalai Lama out from Tibet cause, we will show you diffidently what we can do….
Free Tibet….
@113, ha ha! show us what? Your Pot belly!
If you are a real rangzen hero or wannabe hero and have passed grade 12th. You,one person can create a real change in CCP.Just use what you had learned and no tibetan or HHDL will stop you.
Dear Tibetans,
Lets not get carried away by debate over finding blames. We are wasting precious time and energey. We must talk about action.
This is our situation: Majority are in Tibet. Rest, mostly in India. And, minority scattered all over the world. And, each of these countries have their own agenda.
Under this circumstance what can we do? LETS NOT talk and debate about Freedom or not.
Lets talk about what we can do now. Any creative ideas??? The goal is merely to do something which will force China to pay attention to our predicament. I am not propagating voilence, but something creative. Actually, voilence does not need any creativity in some sense.
Please don’t waste time being reactive to comments and blame finding. Thats when unwanted elements creep in and try to make us hate each other. And lets be fair, in lot of situation the accused don’t get a fair chance to defend themselves and lot of accustion themselves are questinable in accuracy. BE AWARE OF WRONG ELEMENTS.
Regards
Dokpa
Dokpa, you are correct. Violence is not an option for real tibetan.
PEN IS MIGHTier THAN SWORD.
Back to big mouths again – sorry guys.
Pen is indeed mightier if used correctly. Otherwise, it has potetial to wreak havoc in societies and misleads niave folks out there {i.e. who pretends and claim to the only patrio and brave, I think only on internet} and causing unnecessary troubles. Those who writes with a little sense of nepotism, then MIGHTIER the PEN IS, GREATER THE USELESS IT IS. We already learnt a lot throughout the election campaigns. Writers, commentators, editors, and so forth supposed to be nautral, not biased, from your all knowing JN to GROUPS of TPR. It is not nice at all. After all, if Lobsang Sangay quotes a wrong from Churchchill, so what? Just to satisfy your ego and undermine him? Do you realize, underminging him is undermining the whole movement. It is high time to move on and get together. Don’t rely too much on political gurus, be the guru yourself. Read about your guru’s works, then decide if he or she deserved to be taken by words or should be treated with doubts and skepticism. I love criticism and skepticism of anyone who starts his or her mouth big. And I do have reasons to be skeptical of folks whom I am skeptical of. Cheers!!!
Regards
NG
New Generation
AGREEE – we all- EACH of us participating with OUR own thougt & writing
3 CHEERS!
NG: since when writers, commentators and editors are supposed to be neutral? News reports are supposed to be neutral and unbiased, but not an opinion piece. Are Indian or Nepali newspapers unbiased when it come to politics? Are all American media supposed to be uncritical of Obama simply because he had a landslide victory? Should Chinese journalists and writers be uncritical when it comes to Beijing bastards?
Come on man, you must be kidding yourself! In which world do you live?
By the way, if undermining LS amounts to satisfying one’s ego, what about undermining JN? Does it make you feel better?
@Sonam, I thought we supposed to learn the good things from others and preserve good values in our own cultures. Filter the bad ones. This is my philosophy. If find an excuse for any statement from another socio-cultural, political-economic environment, then there is no end to debate. Kepp defending your beliefs from others TRASH.
Personally, I did not undermine JN, I know a FACT from his work, statement, interviews, and so forth. I did not find the guy is easily dependable. He can manipulate by writing capital and make it real, so the naive folks will jump on the wagon of RANGZEN and bla bla bla……
If I point out two of his political and writing inconsistency, here it goes:
As we all know, JN used to denigrate TGIE and openly accuss there is no democracy under Dalai Lama and he openly stated that Dalai Lama is the real stumbling block to Tibetan demorcacy growth and freedom movement. This year, when HHDL delcare to devolve his traditional political authority to the elected leaders, JN is again opposing it. JN is just dashing from two different directions and he is trying to manipulate religion in politics. I love that HHDL is the only honest person left for us and I am glad he decided to step down.
Another, JN found Lobsang Sangy’s Middle way is lesser desirable or inferior than his cousin T. Namgyal! These are hilarious development and openning. I only wrote my comments in response to intensely guru-dependent followers accusing everyone but JN regarding Tibet. If you are sensible and moderate in your evaluation, I got no problem.
Cheers
NG
NG: Of course, I forgot that we Tibetans are the most intelligent sentient beings on this planet and are sufficiently mature in politics to have nothing to learn from others!
You are completely wrong on JN’s opinion. Declaring that HHDL is a stumbling block to democracy and requesting him to remain the symbolic head of state are two different things. The first concerns his all-encompassing power, the second his role to represent the country. As a matter of fact that’s exactly where we stand after the charter amendments, minus the title “head of state”; HHDL has devolved all of his power but will still represent Tibet abroad and be the symbol of the nation.
As for TNT stand on Middle way, he had at least the gut to state that this policy should be reviewed in case of crisis, such as in 2008. LS on the contrary said it cannot be reviewed. Between the two, I definitely prefer TNT’s.
NG: By the way, if you think that we are “supposed to learn the good things from others and preserve good values in our own cultures”, how can you expect LS to campaign like a foreign politician (understand Western politician, with the entire campaign promotional kit, demagogic talks and army of goons to scare the shit out of voters) and yet expect him to be above criticism becoz that’s not common in our own culture? Wasn’t it you who mentioned inconsistency?
Even if u disagree…u lost the battle to LS for katri n lost battle for HHDL fo completelt abdicating political power. What u n jn do now? Crying foul language on the internet as u r the only patriot. To make it clear, I did not claim all tiibetans r enlightened sentient beings. Don’t cook ib between moth n nose. Keep crying……
first this is really a very sound platform to air our views notwithstanding the contradiction and often frictional terms of ideology. this platform certainly provides and mindful person to share their views using their mind and not might.
each of your word counts and will be fought with pen and not with might. What ever we say, the percentage LS earned to win the Katriship wasn’t as staggering and surprising given the fact that he is the only Harvardian candidate and his popularity among the youth specially college goers.
As for the other prominent candidates they didn’t or couldn’t campaign much among young and college goer Tibetan students. Their area of influence includes among those of older generations and the government officials. Both Kasur Tethong la and Tashi Wangdue la had opportunity to connect to Tibetan settlements in and outside india at same level with Dr. LS. However, Dr LS enjoys much greater support base among college going students. During most of his visit to India, Dr LS gets opportunity to connect to Tibetan college students even though he didn’t intend to.
This new Kalon Tripa carries not only hope from the oldies but from the young students and young monks from various monasteries who through thick and thin ensured that this time despite strong electoral rivals he (Dr. LS) should succeed Prof.Samdhong Rinpoche to become the first ever directly and popularly elected Kalon Tripa since Prof. Rinpochey.
NG: You are less and less convincing. Why can’t you answer this simple question of mine: How can you accept a western type of political campaign but the not the western type of debate that comes along?
In other countries, politician & legislature usually use their propagenda machinery to sell their ideas or propose change with all the explanation & reasons to the general population and then vote on to accept or reject the new idea or change based on their interpretation of poll results.
We kind of went the opposite way. I see many reasons and explanation coming from indirect machinery after the change was voted.
Just my observation..nothing serious!
Dear Tibetans,
The postings are very eloquent. I learned some historical facts. But, I ask myself what do I do with the new information??? Does it help our situation?? Does it make me a better person?? or is it just another addition to the my archive of information??
Agreed, I was a very frustrated young man when I witness how things happen in our administration even under the worst situation in Tibet’s history. “NO URGENCY” just plain hierachy, politics and individual/family promotion. But, my frustration lead no way.
What can we do to promote Tibet. Tibet belongs to Tibetan people, we must do something. For the longest time we entrusted Tibets in the hands of generation of Nobilities and history shows us, they have done nothing. They were dillusional in thinking that it was an entitlement, no accountability, no sense of public responsiblity and no leadership. let me stop here abruptly!
We must demand leadership from people who are on our heads at every level, especially in different branches of settlement. We must ask basic questions, what and how are you going to do and why?? When we expect nothing of them, they deliver nothing. Leadership demands courage, vision and determination to do at the expense of individual. Out with fat and chubby leaders !!!
Back to what to do. For a long time I have been thinking a world class “Soccer team” will do lot of good. We can raise a soccer team for this objective alone. A soccer team of freedom fighter. I can develop on this idea if more people a interested. We can talk about social, economic and political impact of such a project. Please pour in your ideas.
Only action will reinstate Tibet as a nation of proud and compassionate people.
Dokpa
Hi Sonam la,
Yes, you are right to say that we can’t expect the western kind of democratic electoral campaign, but given the fact that the new PM elect being raised in west provides much spontaneity in the campaign that had western leanings.
Please understand that we’re practically in the learning stage rather than processing stage when it comes to political electoral campaigning and debates.
I watched some of the talks by the erstwhile candidates where the responses are considerably satisfactory, the questions being raised to the candidates were less significant. That shows clearly the amateurishness of the political awareness among our diaporas populous. I hope that people will not misunderstand my statement here on this page to the extend of underestimating Tibetan political erudition. However, this is the fact that we got to understand.
Did readers get the chance & time to read the full article by Envoy Kelsang Gyaltsen posted on TPR?
It is after the fact – but finally explains (well) the devolution process, name change etc as seen through ‘Middle –way’ approach. Any comment?
And yes I agree “Leadership demands courage, vision and determination to do at the expense of individual.”
Tenzin Pamnor: You misunderstood me. I’m absolutely fine having a western type political campaign, but in that case we should also accept the type of critical debate that comes along. NG simply cannot have their cake and eat it. This is what I meant.
Dokpa #128,
There is already a national soccer/football team:
Tibetan National Sports Association
http://www.tnsa.info/
Tibet national football team (Facebook)
http://on.fb.me/jo5lLk
Tibet national football team (Wikipedia)
http://bit.ly/vfNeB
Christophe,
I am aware of the existence of such teams. K. Dhondup was my school phy ed teacher. I also saw the documentary on forbidden team. What I really meant is, we must develop skills that will woh! world community. It can be done through special focus and funding. The objective must be suctintly laid out. The players choosen and bred for an definite objective. Almost like preparing for a misson.
China does that all the time. They comb whole of China for Athelets. The selected ones are raised for country’s glory. They are taken away from parents for focused training.
We tibetans are a victim. What ever we do, we must do with intensity and focus, otherwise luke warm effort will not bear any fruits. Yes, we have team but are we pursuing any objectives ?? Our efforts will match our goal. Its not enough to be local heros. We must dream big.
Why can’t we have a team whose skill will be undeniable to the world. The question of Tibet will closely follow.
For Tibet, we must dream big or we perish in the tides of time.
THE NORBU #127, lS’S PLATFORM OF CHANGE HAS BEEN HIJACKED.WHAT YOU GONNA DO NOW? HE WILL BE REMEMBERED FOR HIS RELENTLESS CAMPAIGNING AND THATS IT.ARE YOU STILL JUST GONNA OBSERVE AND SAY NOTHING SERIOUS?HEHE..
TPR mentioned something to this effect in regards to Katri (Dr) Lobsang Sangay. They called it invest ing in ‘Human Capitol “?
@Sonam: what western debate are you talking about? I welcome any debates, in fact I am an embracing debate sort of a guy. However, what I don’t appreciate is twisted logic in the name of democracy and promoting family members openly with a hidden agenda. It is not just the promotion itself a problem if has an iota of truth in it. In our case, it is distorting logic for public consumption by manipulating public trust in the concerned individual. It is a laughing stock to differentiate middle way, my middle way is better than your middle way. Also, it seems you are not open to listen to mr sangay’s explanation. Tethong even went further to inject religion into politics by saying that coming katri must have the right karma to serve his holiness. It is an old political move n tactic to appeal to people’s emotion which blind facts. It is more amusing to see mix politics n religion when HHDL separates the two. Anyway, the battle is over n the winner is declared. So, now it is time to move n work together. Move on does not mean shy of criticism, in fact offer contructive criticism, not ill-intentioned criticism in order to express personal grudge. Disclaimer: I have no relation with LS, in fact he does not know if I am existed. I am purely arguing for the good of the society by using my acquired education and processing through my head. Regards NG
I think every one coming on Shadow Tibet seem to be very mindful about what they have to say.It is very good.If we could express our anger or disagreements,and displeasure by saying what needs to be said and refrain from unpleasant exchanges. That might add a feather to our hat as Tibetans.
I wonder how many of you watch We the people/NDTV.I am a huge fan of this show.I absolutely marvel the way they debate,discuss and argue so knowledgeably and intelligently on this show. Some participants some times on this show cross the boundaries too. For example,there was this gentleman on the phone who was totally disrespectful to a well respected Bollywood intellectual who dealt with the situation with such grace and poise.She has always been one of my favorite stars.It is good to see some one you admire as an entertainer is also full of wisdom and tolerance.I felt proud of being her fan.
Blackberry#84,you have a great sense of humor.I like that.Life is always little better with some colors in it.I thank all who wrote some comments on my comments.
Hi, If anyone believes that peaceful way of fighting for rfreedom without bloodshed on our part is going to bring back our homeland then you are totally mistaken.
Our fight is first for political struggle and all cultural freedom comes under it. So political battle should and must be fought politically and not with a sense of spiritual mind.
Having said that we need more people from diaspora society who can follow Pawo Thupten Ngodup la.
NG: What western debate am I talking about? The one which entitles people to criticize an elected leader, for example when wrong quotes are used to justify a treacherous political shift. And if you wish people to offer constructive criticism, then you should be pleased with Christophe’s article: in his latest interview LS don’t quote anymore Churchill and he even stop referring to great foreign leaders to make his point. That was constructive, no? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kU9UdzkbLY
You’re jumping from one issue to another without saying anything sensible. When your question on middle way is answered with hard facts (LS’s refusal to reconsider the middle way), instead of arguing on this you go on attacking JN about “promoting family members”, “distorting logic for public consumption”, “appealing to people’s emotion” and what else to make up for your lack of logic. When your remark on JN’s “inconsistency” is proven wrong, you conveniently dump the topic and speak of “losing the battle” and “crying foul language”.
If you really wish to be a “debate sort of a guy”, learn first to stick to the issues. Quoting from one of your earlier comment (written after you saw HHDL in the moon) here is my conclusion: “If you have something to discuss, let it be substantial instead of unfounded name calling”.
Dear Derlen59,
I’m really disturbed at the comments that you passed for it’s sheer foul language against His Holiness.I value this forum for it’s reflection of diverse views in our community and please don’t stain it by your rotten remarks which only serves to show what kind of mindset you are keeping.
S Rinpoche polices may not be flawless but one can’t deny that he has ran the best administration in our exile history till date and certainly doesn’t deserves the scorns heaped by few members of this forum.
Dokpa, I really appreciate and like your action oriented comments.Its infact a good initiative to build up a world class soccer player.
In my opinion, we could use the help of our friends in developed nation to take a lead on such developmental initiative as i feel they are equiped and have resources to achieve successful result.
For us Tibetan,CTA or TGIE or TI is the core or the root of our identity, culture or everything in exile.i feel CTA operations should be completely funded by tibetans alone. Our friends can help us to take us to the next level but we should be responsible for taking care of our identity.
Thats what i felt whenever i feel i am without a home.
Hi Gyalrong Khentrul la,
You are absolutely right I haven’t seen a single word from this person putting well judged words in this forum. This is totally a partial forum that not only invites critics to criticize but also to acknowledge the hard work and good work rendered by our Leaders His Holiness and Prof. Rinpoche.
We must have a middle and honest way of airing our views. A one sided view is never welcomed in this platform.
Hi Sonam la,
Let me raise you pertinent issue….What you think should we be fighting for Middle Path or Complete Independence and why. We can stick to this issue and discuss. With His Holiness, the author of Middle Path abdicating political authority and Katri and Chitue becoming more powerful and youthful what do you expect?
Tenzin Pamnor: if you think that our new Katri will have much to say in terms of foreign policies, you are sorely mistaken. HHDL has devolved his power as head of state and head of government, but he’s the only one in command as far as talks with China are concerned. In any case, as I pointed out to NG, Lobsang Sangay has already declared that this policy cannot be reviewed.
Anyway, this is a blog and not a discussion forum, and the issue here is not “Middle Way vs. Rangzen” but LS misquoting Churchill. Plus, it would take much more than a comment to make my point! If you need some arguments in favor of Independence, read JN’s Rangzen Charter.
tenzin panmor la and gyalrong khentrul la,
i too first get mad with darlene’s comments. but soon you learn democracy.If he saying these comments with our country in heart then there is nothing wrong but if he saying all these because he is diety worshipper then he has something very personal.thats all i can say.
@Sonam: Lobsang Sangey cannot change policy, it is the parliament who changes the policy. If LS does change,then there is no diference between dictator and popular leader through election as far as democracy is concerned. I heard LS was saying that Tibetans people has the right to SELF-DETERMINATION as far as international law is concerned. However, he said that he would follow middle way just like TNT declared before the election. Therefore, don’t try to poke hole, there is no huge or zero hole in LS’s policy inclination and statement as far as government policy is concerned. If you do need change, then elect your JN to Chitue and ur other representatives, and ask them to change. THis is the beauty of democracy. I think you are trying to play to a bunch of uneducated and niave folks. REgarding JN’s writing, his writing only concerned and confined to the area under Ganden Porang in which HN’s family has stake for being aristocrat. When it comes to kham and amdo, his writing is as scant as observing stars during the mid-day. Just read his short and void of substance article on Kyegudo when earthquake struck the region.
Regards
NG
NG: And here again you digress from the topic by raising an unconvincing provincialism of JN. You’re fantastic: the enthusiasm you show at discrediting Jamyang Norbu (or ‘undermining’ as you put it) is inversely proportional to the wisdom of your previous comment against name calling.
As for LS, where did I said that it was he who would change the policy? Don’t misquote me please. When I said that it can be ‘reviewed’ or ‘reconsidered’, it’s obviously understood within the framework of our democracy. Keep your dictatorship for the years to come…
Last (I’m tired to repeat the same thing again and again, and this is my last response to you on this topic), all Katri candidates said they would follow middle way, but only TNT mentioned that it can be reviewed. I definitely don’t know what you try to convey by ‘poking hole’, but I’m certain that you refuse to accept this simple fact. I also know that you hate the Tibetan Political Review, but everyone should read their editorial “Investigating the Candidates on the Middle Way” in order to get an idea of what we are discussing here.
http://tibetanpoliticalreview.com/project-updates/investigatingthecandidatesonthemiddleway
Dear friends,
Lets go beyoung intellectual debate. Lets brain strom.
” What can we do?”
” We need a rallying point”
Dokpa
Tashi Delek to all Tibetans and friends
Well, i have been reading many writings of Jamyang Norbu la and his use of words such as “election junkies” and in many articles directness of criticizing His Holiness The Dalia Lama, our government in exile or our newly elected prime minister is in a way reflection of his negligence about sentiments of many Tibetans who are strongly attached with our leader and government. I am not a professor nor any professional, but being a free human being and a true Tibetan by virtue of birth and culture my common sense tells me that one may doubt Jamyang Norbu la’s intentions.
thank you
Gungwa Karma Phuntsok
149 Gungwa Karma Phuntsok la, it’s a great comment.I enjoyed reading it.I am a huge fan of JN la.Still,sometimes I have difficulty agreeing with all his views/opinions.I personally felt little uneasy about the way Jamyang la held his views about our now prime minister elect Dr. Lobsang Sangay la during the Katri election. Jamyang la’s bios support for Kungo Tenthong la was pretty obvious. There is no denying about that.But,one thing is for certain,he has the highest regards for His Holiness,and the best of intention for Tibet and the Tibetans.That I do not doubt about him at all;and I hope you will not too.I hope you will continue to read his writings.If not,you will be missing out on one of the most(most of the time) honest, open, frank and a fantastic Tibetan writer of our time.That much I am certain of it.
Tashi Delex.
Gyalrong Khentrul la,
People in this forum are mostly intelligent people and a patriotic Tibetan. Soometimes, everyone can become emotional and illogical like you did in your previous writeup. You are short of supporting sentences for you claim.
How Can you say, “S Rinpoche has ran the best administration in our exile history till date and certainly doesn’t deserves the scorns heaped by few members of this forum.”
It may be few members here in this forum, but most people who know about exile administration are fed up Samdhong rinpoche of his falied policies, be it his educational policies, his organic farming policies, his economic policies,— everybody is done with samdhong and the older folks.
People are scare of criticising LAma because of religious beligious belief and sometimes of their own political benefit. Even Chithus cannot criticise his policies as sometimes he’ll threatened them of resigning and the chithus fear that they may not get elected the next time if they criticise samdhong too much.
In Nutshell, Samdhong is the worst katri who ran the exile administration, who basically sucked the blood out of TGIE. His kalon, rep, and official Appointments are all based on nepotism, favoritism, and chamchism if you will. There are not based on the “cream of the crop” way of appointing the official. His Nephew was appointed first as his body guard, now in Dept of security.
We all believe that a Monk will not rule or abuse power like that of dictators. But, this monk did. I am sorry to say this but its true. I know if you’re like me a khampa wouldn’t like to criticise another Khampa publicly. We need to support, right.
I am sorry thats too much. Some ways, i am commiting sin and i may go to hell if i criticise rinpoche. I say so be it. If telling the truth put in hell, i have no regrets.
Agu Tonpa la, you are damn right, our exile government is putrid, Samdon Lama did everything wrong,as well as the another old monk—–HHDL, these two old monks pushed us to the edge of death, so share some ideas with us, what the f##k shall we do? Shall we go back to Tibet and join the CCP to against HHDL？ Or what else can we do? Please! Please share your F##king ideas with us then!
A complete nonrelated question…if you don’t want to address it here, I understand…but I was listening to VOA Kham and “Jyana” just sounds so much like “China.” I wondered if there’s any chance at all that the name for China actually came from “Gyanak/Jyana.” Just a crazy thought. Probably been discussed a million times already, and I just missed it.
Dear Tibs,
I can see that you guys are very angry about how things are working in our exile govt. I was too. But, what can we do?
Do you know a family where the Dad is stresses, angry and drunk. He trashes his house, breaking everything in sight. Its very easy to find it stupid and absurd by any onlooker. Except the neighbour will be very happy.
First of all, if its a failure then we can not point to few individuals. When we look at history of any nation there had good kings and bad kings. But, the nation stands.
Nation is us, the people. How we are going to regain it, how we are going to build its struggle? what are we going to do? This is a more pertinent question.
Japan, rose back from ashes in II WW. Japan again is devastated by recent earth quake. They don’t give up. The have hope.
well Tibs, if we calm down and assess what we can do, nothing is impossible. the only question is will we do it?
Dokpa
Agu Tonpa:- honestly speaking,I am not a great fan of Sumtong Renpoche.His objections to send one thousand Tibetans to the United States of America in 1992,with the short sighted reasons that he gave truly made me doubt about his leadership.This was followed by his objections to having Miss Tibet beauty contest.Here was an international platform that was taking a birth,and he could not see that.(I can understand him a little here,him being a priest).But over all,his leadership has been much admired and appreciated by the great majority.If you,do not see it the same way,that makes all of us individuals with freedom to express like he/she sees it.I do not know how successful he was,but he worked very hard.He deserves some credit there.I do not know whether or not great majority are fed-up with him.It’s rather difficult to believe what you have said.But, if you are right,it’s very unfortunate.
Our politicians must be criticized,but never with vengeance.With them,it’s a pain where ever you go,and without them,where do we stand? Have you ever heard some one say,it’s a necessary evil.”Can’t do with them, and can’t without them”.
You are an individual with very strong opinions.I read every thing you write.Please continue writing.
Please take my comments well,for I meant well.
Thank you!
A fellow Tibetan.
Please get well soon, Jamyang la. We will love to read more of your incisive opinions. Hopefully, it is on the dastardly display of cowardice from our chitue and the issue with one man rule that is still not over. There is no democracy. Whatever H.H says goes. Who can disagree with a living god? Even otherwise intelligent people can’t seem to be able to separate the two unfortunately and all we can do is watch the train wreck in slow motion.
TseDor From Delhi
Hi Tsedor,
Yes I do understand how you feel. But we have to keep in mind few things.
1. First, we recognized him from his child hood.
2. We refused full Democratic institution far back as 2001.
3. He has a long list of achievements for everyone to see.
4. Do we ask enough questions to local “Dhonchoes” especially those heading tibetan settlements on Accountability and responsiblity? In Tibet, how did the nobilities function? Did they function as head of tibetan people or acted as masters based on “Ley”, sort of entitlement.
We can not blame H.H for the train wreck. According to me he did his best and he was sincere in what he did.
But, like any country different times and circumstance bring different rulers. Lets see what our people want and what leader we choose. And, we should never forget the role of “people” in this mess if you call it a mess.
Hope this helps
Dokpa
We have so many intelligent people on this commet section, I wonder why all these self-professed visionaries not running for the Chitue or not elected by their constituencies? The reason must be laying somewhere else….that has nothing to do with dedication for Tibetan cause or great vision for TGIE……it must be personal. When stomach is FULL….have to time to bother and look else where….before that…..you gotta find the best opportunities for the five senses!
NG
NGTIB, I THINK WHAT OUR MASSES WANT AND WHAT THESE INTELLIGENT INDIVIDUALS CAN OFFER ARE VERY DIFFERENT. MASSES TEND TO LIKE SOMEONE WHO WILL TALK THE TALK AND CAN PLAY TO THEIR TUNE. EVEN I AM GUILTY OF THAT AS A BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE MYSELF. RIGHT THINKING INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WILL HAVE MORE SELF RESPECT AND CONSCIENCE THAN THAT I THINK SO. SO THAT IS REASON WHY I THINK THE INTELLIGENTSIA IS NOT READY TO DO THE POLITICS. BUT IN FACT MOSTLY THEY ARE CONCERNED A LOT.
NG: So you’re back with your empty talks of “big mouth”? Weren’t you supposed to answer my previous questions #147 and justify all the bullshit you said about JN? By the way, aren’t you also leaving confortably in the US, spending your time arguing with a full stomach?
#152: Everytime we discuss, please donot drag His holiness in. This is very typical of Tibetan politician way of doing. If you haven’t noticed yet, please check when they see strong criticism towards his policies, Rinpoche and others drags HH and shield them from further criticism. They always paint a picture like as if TGIE policies are formulated by his holiness. Remember, for the last 10 years, all the political decisions are made by Kalon tripa. So, i’ll be criticising Samdhong Rinpoche and not HH the Dalai lama. His Holiness is more broad-minded and open than samdhong lama. What can we do? Nothing.. Atleast, the unlimited term for kalon tripa that was quitetly pushed in the clause of redrafted constitution was flatly rejected Chithus.
#155 Tibet for Tibetans:
Thank you for your well-intention letter. We all agree to disagree. YOu may not agree with my analysis but atleast didn’t flatly rejected by opinion without supporting sentences. That just leaves the door to discussion open. I became a very opinioted guy (in the closet though)since i care very much about TGIE. I could tolerate the distruction brought on us and our future generation by Samdhong lama. Until, media avenues like TPR and this blog, such kind of discussion are shared among our closes friend less Dahsa momolas, popolas, and Samdhong chamchagiri will stone you to death.
If you wanted to know more about Samdhong’s failure, please look at the latest article in TPR http://www.tibetanpoliticalreview.com/articles/disappointmentsofsamdhongrinpoche%E2%80%99s10-yeartenure
I am so disgusted with Samdhong may be because i know so much more about him. YOu gave only two examples. Let me give you few more example on top of the one listed in TPR post.
–First thing samdhong did was Cut ties with TYC; ordered civil servant to abstain from mingling/attending the TYC function as guest (obiviously to appease Chinese)
–I am not sure wether he actually wrote to different embassy, but they was a rumour that he requested them not to give visa to Tibetans without his recommendation.
— What i am sure is that he declared in the ATPD assembly that TGIE giving Birth certificate to Tibetan was “illegal” and subsequently ban issuing the birth certificate. The objective was clear as many Tibetans were moving out to US and the children and parent themselves need birth certificate to prove their relationship. Such a hassel for the common people! people, inturn paid huge sum of money to procure a fake one.
I wanted to give many accolades to Samdhong lama but if there is not a single good thing how am i suppose to be kind. May be …. one good thing …..May be his Tibetan Model School… Everybody say good thing about this school.. But, i swear on lord, i’ll will not send my kids. Other than that, he was great Chithu Tsoktso. Thats it for today.
Keep Researching,
Yours agu.
Agu Tonpa, I like your style. Researched based accusation.
Tibet’s exclusivity to protect Buddhism, so goes the reasoning. Will anyone take resposibilty for this statement ? Can we code? As a matter of fact we were isolated from the rest of the world. Until the wake up call.
Denial of mass education. What is the purpose of this barrier? Are we afraid of loosing our “good natured, good mannered” personality? Ha Ha!!!
Or was it a political plot of the nobilities.
With education we now know that we can maintain:
<< your country: Beyond doubt, religion can not.
<< religion: actually better with education. no blind faith.
<< culture: always evolves, no fixation needed. Actually our culture borrowed from China and India.
<< good nature- very funny
Tibetan people, we must wake up, take your rightful place to determine the fate of your own country. Lets ask more from our leaders. Do not assume they will do the best for our interest. Ask more questions.
We must put pressure on "Dhonches" (new name?)to represent the people. We must get rid of individuals who think "this chair" is an entilement( which comes with benefits and opportunities).
This is a beginning of a new Tibet. Modern, spiritual and strong. Why can't a good force have all these qualittie?
Dokpa
@Sonam: Regarding JN, it is upto you how you take it about him. There is no problem if you think he is the most enlightened or so, unless you impose your shallow view onto others. Imposition is the problem.
I am not bbad mouthing about TGIE or Samdon or anyone who is serving. Let appreciate their service. I do appreciate their service, I am troubled people like you who does nothing but dragging people down. In democracy, freedom is good thing if used constructively, is destructive when used with malicious intent. Therefore, instead of assassinating characters of those serving the TGIE, do some constructive criticism. I am not here to have a win-or-lose argument with ya, I got better thing to do.
NG
NG: You’re absolutely right. We all truely appreciate HHDL and Samdhong services, especially when it comes to surrender our country! And you’re so right to accuse JN of doing nothing: sending strong wake up calls against our government’s stupid policies is definitely not a “constructive criticism”. NG, you’re damn entertaining!
@Sonam, if a country could be formed with a pen and writing from behind the computer screen, then it could have been done long time back. I think they {HHDL, Samdong….} are not as stupid as you think. JN is not clear on what is Tibet, can you shed some more light on this term? Which Tibet? Tibet of imperial period? or Tibet of Mongol period? or Tibet of Gangden Podrang? On what historical fact does JN and your argument reliies? Instead of generalizing and showing off you as the smartest person in Tibetan world, lets get real and be specific?
Getting more interesting now! Go ahead!
NG
NG: Country can’t be formed with a pen? Have you ever heard (among many others) of Thomas Paine?:
‘Thomas Paine was an author, pamphleteer, radical, inventor, intellectual, revolutionary, and one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.’ (Wikipedia)
Pens and keyboards alone won’t free a country. One will have to fight for that. But in a modern world, liberation movements always require an intellectual backup.
As for what JN mean by ‘Tibet’ (this is the strangest question I ever came across), read “INDEPENDENT TIBET – THE FACTS”. It should answer most of your questions:
https://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2010/03/04/independent-tibet-%E2%80%93-the-facts/
NG: I forgot to provide the link to Thomas Paine’s on Wikipedia, but also a beautiful quote taken from that page. According to John Adams (second President of the United States):
“Without the pen of the author of ‘Common Sense,’ the sword of Washington would have been raised in vain.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
@Sonam: Thanks for getting to the real discussion instead of name calling and character assassination that many do. I still have trouble with your generalization and comparing situation with superficial analogy. Thomas Maine’s idea might have got great result in America, but it only happened because of white majority with more advanced education and technology over backward Indians and due to the weak overlordship of British corwns over a far away land across the Atlantic ocean. In case of Tibet, it is a fact that Tibetans are minority in Tibet and their own bowl of food is beeing threatened by aliens. Towns and cities are settled with Han Chinese and their descent certaily call whereever they are born as their home. Whether, CCP will last or not, we will have to deal with this mess with future Chinese rulers as well as these millions of born in Tibet Han Chinese. Therefore, I dont really see how Jamyang’s ideas are practical to solve the existing crisis. Tibetans inside Tibet are helplessly seeing they are being overwhelmed by Chinese. Even with a firm belief in Rangzen as JN expounds, it will surely cause a bloodbath between innocent people and of course, as always, the majority will win. I dont see any practicality about JN’s pronouncements, except it is a great historical piece. As for your provision of references for to JN’s early work, I would appreciate it, but I am no stranger to his work. I feel in the comotion of zeal for Rangzen, you forgot certain historical facts and interpretation of JN’s writing. Even if you looked JN’s posted Tibet Map before Chinese invasion, it only includes 3/1rd of actual Tibetan land that TGIE currently fighting for under the banner of middle-way. If you are only fighting for U-Tsang alone which was real Tibet before PLA entered Tibet before 1950 with the facts that JN provided as a legal tool, then I would say you are right. If you say entire Tibetan land, namely including amdo and kham, then JN’s facts about rangzen does not cover those areas. It is a common knowledge Ganden podrang did not politically exercise powers over entire amdo and east of chamdo in kham region. Due to this reason, I asked which Tibet. If you are only fighting for pre-1950 Tibet which is comprised of U-Tsang alone, then you are completely right about what you are saying. Maybe, you did not make clear of your notion of Tibet.
NG
NewGenerationTB #168,
Let me please answer this one. To legitimize any territorial claim, the loyalty and support of concerned people need first to be asserted. One way to assess the extend of present-day Tibet could therefore be measured with the loyalty shown by Tibetans coming in exile. Having people coming to Dharamshala from as far as Choni in the North-East or as far as Gyalthang in the South-East tell us a lot where the border is supposed to lie. The same can be said about 2008 pro-independence protests whereby protests’ locations could serve to draw a kind of “loyalty map”. On the other hand, I’ve never heard of any refugee from Pari (Tianzhu in Gansu) although it’s a so-called Tibetan autonomous county under PRC’s administration and although it’s claimed by TGIE maps.
One thing is sure though: if concessions shall not be made on Tibet’s independent status, some will probably be necessary on territorial claims. The Tsongkha valley will be, for instance, one of the main bone of contention with a very large majority of non-Tibetan settlers living there since more than one hundred years. None of the counties in the Tsoshar (Haidong) prefecture have an autonomous status, yet they are all claimed in TGIE’s maps.
TGIE is actually not clear on its claim. The “Memorandum on Genuine Autonomy” speaks of all areas with an autonomous status (this wouldn’t include Tsoshar’s counties) but all their maps include Kumbum or Taktser, as well as counties in Yunnan and Sichuan that are not recognized by Beijing as Tibetan (Gongshan, Balung, Lijiang, etc.). If you wish to know more about my views on TGIE’s maps, please check the following comment:
https://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2010/03/04/independent-tibet-%E2%80%93-the-facts/#comment-5562
Now let me ask you one question: do you really believe that Beijing will be kind enough not only to give a “genuine autonomy” to Tibetans but also go to the extend of including counties that have presently no Tibetan autonomous status?
Thank you Agu for posting that link of thokme’s romantic piece on SR la’s achievements.
Untill now, i believed that i was the only fan of SR political leadership but this guy proved me wrong with his ‘ TOE-NGAK to SR by
Nyen-ngak’,surely Thokme is from varna tholop.
His list on the ‘External front’ achievements of SR is clearly his way of proving that SR has been a courageous leader to move TGiE forward on middle way policy in words and in practice ( not an inch to the left or right).SR was elected by the majority for that reason, to stand firm on the middle way policy.
If someone else took the place of SR, the external front would stand more or less a “Ramaluk or Hichura or Shangtsong(anything goes) or pharee leywa mey tsuuree chowa mey”.
Another achievement of SR on getting rid of petty paljor business has re-positioned TGiE (untill then anathashram) more on political exile than economic entity.
This writer is clearly the greatest fan of SR….
Jamyang la, I hope you are feeling better and wish you a speedy recovery. Just thought I would direct people’s attention to a wonderful and thoughtful piece, and dare I say, one of the most honest and refreshing piece by a Tibetan to date on this subject: Tenzing Sonam’s “The Democracy Conundrum”. If you are like me, easily bored by repetitive opinions expressed by our writers by simply rearranging words and points, with no new insights or even a creative approach in the presentation, this piece won’t disappoint. With that said, I am waiting for your next piece. No rush though. Just chiming in. Punching my card in so to speak. hehe.
Opps! the link would have been nice.
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?c=4&t=1&id=29701&article=The+democracy+conundrum
Whether we agreed or not, Dr. Lobsang Sangye la is our new Katri. We all should respect our new katri rather blaming him everytime. We don’t have our own country like India. So, better stop blaming and give some respect to our new katri.
It’s not the best way for the development of our democracy…
Lobsang Sanghi la will get the respect he deserves when
He does somethinf that is noteworthy, not just because he
holds the “Katri” post. In the meantime , it would be
prudent for him to reign in his superfluos pandering
To gigantic historic personalities. He is no longer
talking to a group of gullible tibetans who would
Rather believe everything he says like listening
To a religious teaching. It is highly embarrassing to
watch him extol himself to great personalities and then
not even get the quote right on international TV.
also, ahem, how can a Digtsug have a prime minister? President
will sound much better, i think, since companies or
NGO have precedence. Just my two annas.
Dokpa – says:
“With education we now know that we can maintain:
<< your country: Beyond doubt, religion can not.
<< religion: actually better with education. no blind faith.
<< culture: always evolves, no fixation needed. Actually our culture borrowed from China and India.
<< good nature- very funny”
I agree with you whole heartedly that EDUCATION (the mighty pen) is the vital factor.
Regarding culture: I would say that almost all world culture that exists today is derived from: Ancient Greece, Egypt, China and India. Northern Europe was still a barbaric land during the height of Greek civilization & many words in English (especially the sciences) are derived from Latin besides a hundred other things. The wonderful thing is that most cultures that we know of have arrived at their own by borrowing from neighbors, the invaders and conquerors.
As for Tibet: We were still either an Agrarian society or a Nomadic one. There seems to have been no place and occupation for a ‘man of letters’ except if you were a member of the clergy. (Even in the then evolving modern western world – the educated class was the clergy.).
BIG omission – please INCLUDE – ANCIENT ROMAN civilization – the great conquerors. Thus LATIN……..
Happy His Holiness Birth day to all.
Dokpa
@Christophe Besuchet:
“To legitimize any territorial claim, the loyalty and support of concerned people need first to be asserted. One way to assess the extend of present-day Tibet could therefore be measured with the loyalty shown by Tibetans coming in exile. Having people coming to Dharamshala from as far as Choni in the North-East or as far as Gyalthang in the South-East tell us a lot where the border is supposed to lie. The same can be said about 2008 pro-independence protests whereby protests’ locations could serve to draw a kind of “loyalty map”. On the other hand, I’ve never heard of any refugee from Pari (Tianzhu in Gansu) although it’s a so-called Tibetan autonomous county under PRC’s administration and although it’s claimed by TGIE maps.”
You are correct on the topic “territorial” claim made through “loyalty” and “support” of the concerned people. However, if we zoom in from the generalization and try to understand the gray areas of “loyalty” and “support”, I meant the specificities of these often glossed over and generalized interpretations of “loyalty” and “support”, it is hard to differentiate whether it is the support for “rangzen”, “middle-way strategy” or person of the Dalai Lama; whether the “loyalty” lies with the political “Tibetan Government” or “loyalty” lies in the person of “Dalai Lama”. Amongst all these vioces, there are so many different slogans: “rangzen”, “freedom”, “independence”, “return of the HHDL”, “Religious Freedom”, and so forth. Therefore, categoraizing everything under the banner of “rangzen” is bit inconsistent and distorting the true voices of those stakeholders and harder to sustain the argument itself. Since March 10, 2011, HHDL gave up his political role, now TGIE is supposed to represent the Tibetan people and it will be a testing time for TGIE to see whether the same “loyalty” and “support”will be placed in itself or not. Your drawing of border based on the “2008” protest is bit ambivalent and I am afraid many areas will be left out since no apparent “protest” occurred in these areas. Regarding Taingzhu in Gansu, similarly Muli in Sichuan, are only recognized as Tibetan Autonomous counties in PRC because it was dominantly resided by Tibetans and it was a Tibetan cultural region and still predominantly Tibetan populated places. The logic of the TGIE including these areas as part of the map is because these are Tibetan areas and named so and recongnized by PRC itself, it is not based on whether there are refugees from these areas or not. Refugee issue itself should be viewed from multiple angles instead of being viewed from sheer oppression as many exile born Tibetans’s world view seems to report. Of course, we cannot blame them because they have hardly any contact or frank communication with newcomers from Tibet due to various reasons of their own. As I understand it, TGIE map is rough sketch, and not the ultimate. Moreoever, we need to understand the
fact that the map of Tibet taught in exile school system is simplied, it completely ignores the microscopic map itself. You only observe U-Tsang, Kham, and amdo along with few well know towns on it which is the macroscopic map itself. As result of this education, Tibetans educated in exile school systems, their understanding of Tibetan geography do not go beyond U-Tsang, Kham, and Amdo. If any other cities beyond these few terminologies mentioned whether in Chinese or Tibetan, then they start scratch their heads and saying I am not born in Tibet for an escape and saving face from their own ignorance. Therefore, I believe the TGIE map you mentioned is beneficial for exiles Tibetans for their understanding of Tibetan cultural regions achieved during Tibet’s imperial period, but cannot really serve as a basis of any negotiation between the parties involved {It is similar to Chinese students are taught in their educational systems, the entire Dia Yu Dao or Senkaku island, Nansha qun dao or Spratly Island and Xi Xha Qun Dao or Paracel Island as part of Chinese territory although Chinese government still compete for the claim with Japan and numerous other south east asian countries}. The border rearrangement will have to base on fact on the ground, population, culture, history, and importantly, opinions of those people who reside in those areas. If may I say another reason for the rough sketch of TGIE map is, it could have the source from the policy, “all those who call themselves as Tibetan should be united under one autonomous region in PRC for the convenient administration as well as linguistic and cultural preservation of Tibetan people and saving trouble for the Chinese Central Government to govern so many autonomous regions separately.” Of course, once negotiation started, there will be compromises and both side will take into consideration of actual ground realities. Regarding your question, “do you really believe that Beijing will be kind enough not only to give a “genuine autonomy” to Tibetans but also go to the extend of including counties that have presently no Tibetan autonomous status?” I dont think PRC will be kindly deliver to our door, however it will have to happen someday, it is just a matter of time provided those real patriotic Tibetans in Tibet stand on the ground and defend their own land, and keep fighting for the right and aspiration for their own nationalities. However, what I dont seem so hopeful about Tibet is, Tibetan issue will be solved and freedom will be ushered by exile Tibetans. Of course, exile Tibetans will be a mere spokeperson from a safe heaven.
NG
PS: Webmaster, please remove the earlier post, I posted on the wrong thread. Thanks!
To Mr.Newgeneration la, can you provide proof for millions of chinese born inside Tibet please? Just curious. Thank you very much.
Tsering Dorjee la,
Just curious is not enough if one is serious about Tibet. One needs to travel there and access the situation oneself. When one decides to support either ragnzen or middle-way or any other options, one should not base the decision on emotion which is based on uneducated and uninllegent decision. For your wake-up call and others who visit this site and involve in debate passionately, but detached from ground realities. I have here the comparizon of Tibetan and Chinese population in Tibet as it known to exiled Tibetans as amdo, kham, and u-tsang. If anything left out, please let me know and I will update it.
Comparizon of Chinese and Tibetan population in Tibet:
Gan Nan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 51.44% 329278
Chinese: 41.44% 267260
Haibei Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 24.15% 62520
Chinese: 36.63% 94841
Hai Nan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 62.77% 235663
Chinese: 28.06% 105337
Huang Nan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 66.32% 142360
Chinese: 7.65% 16194
Golok Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 91.63% 126395
Chinese: 6.59% 9096
Yushu Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 97.25% 288829
Chinese: 2.56% 7594
Haixi Mongol and Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 12.16% 40371
Chinese: 64.95% 215706
Mongol: 7.23% 24020
Ngawa Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 53.72% 455238
Chinese: 24.69% 209270
Qiang: 18.28% 154905
Garze Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture:
Tibetan: 78.37% 703168
Chinese: 18.24% 163648
Dechen Tibetan Autonomous Prefectre:
Tibetan: 33.12% 117099
Chinese: 16.39% 57928
Mili Tibetan Autonomous County:
Tibetan: 32.39% 40312
Chinese: 21.85% 27199
Tianzhu Tibetan Autonomous County:
Tibetan: 29.87% 66125
Chinese: 62.88% 139190
Xining or Ziling
Tibetan: 5.51%
Chinese: 74.04%
Tibet Autonomous Region:
Tibetan: 92.8% 2.91 million
Chinese: 6.1%
Note: Tibetan and Chinese population in Hai Dong or Tso Shar where Zongka is located is not
available. As far as this write knows, the population of TAR is disputed or figuratively not
trustworthy since all migrant workers and millitary personals are not accounted in the census.
Chinese government’s unwillingness to acknowledge about accerlation of Chinese population in
TAR through different means. Also, clear census of TAR is not always clearly available to the
public, the population make up is only available in summary figure as I cited above. The reason
is obviously due to intense debate about Sinization of Tibet by China in the international
community. All the figures used above are from publicly available census of China in 2000. In
all Tibet Autonomous region, prefectures, and counties, the figure for other minorities are
ignored due to its insignificant percent and primarily we are here to deal with Tibetan and
Chinese population. However, the figure for Mongol and Qiang are cited due to the fact the
autonomous prefecture is combination of Tibetans and these minorities separately.
A small request to all those who are born in exile, if you are in the west with the luxury of western passport and protection, instead of visiting Nepal, India, and Bhutan again and again for personal indulgence with no purpose at all, you should opt to visit Tibet and nothing will happen to you with foreign passport, your safety is guranteed. You will have access to real situation, otherwise, learning Tibet through the lens of one’s baises, filtered lens of news reports of any kinds, be it western, Chinese, or Tibetan, will only reinforce your own biased opinions which is far detached from reality. It will do nothing good for for your own knowledge as well as for the cause of Tibet.
NG
NEWGENERATIONTB la, are you working for the Chinese Embassy or are you a friend of Melvyn Goldstein? How dare you give any credit to these Chinese figures and how dare you use only Chinese spellings in Amdo (Huangnan instead of Malho, Haixi instead of Tsonub, etc.)? Don’t you have anything better to propose?
How dare him? Instead of barking like a retard, you should be giving him credit for doing some REAL research. How many idiots of your caliber actually take the time to dig up Chinese census data? Last time I checked, TGIE does NOT provide a comprehensive census for the TAR, only how many people they THINK died under Chinese “oppression”.
Do you think you can solve the Tibet problem using idiotic rhetoric alone?
Sorry, I didn’t know that a copy-paste was a REAL research… BTW, is using Chinese spelling also a REAL research?
Gyaltsen Norbu la,
Getting angry will not take you or Tibet anywhere. If you are passionate about Tibetan issue, then you need to know and understand the complexity of the issue, look and observe from different angles. Often, Tibetans from exile don’t really feel the pinch when we generalize how Tibetans are being a minority in Tibet with increasing influx of Han Chinese and Hui Chinese from China proper. However, they seems to feel little bit of pinch when actual figures are presented. I am neither working for Chinese Embassy nor a supporter of Goldstein whom I consider as the mother of all running-dog-propagandist as JN labeled few years back. Goldstein is one bad western guy with ulterior motives who promoted Chinese ideology amongst academics as well as political elites in USA in particular and west in general, however, he also have willing collaborators of Tibetan decent. His x-wife and their kith and kins are willing collaborators and they are decent of kudras who ruled commoners with iron head when in power in Tibet, they sold Tibet to Melvyn Goldstein in exile and it has done a irreversible damage to Tibet’s issue for a while in the past, and still has potential to mislead many more students of history. You should do a research about these traitors and hold them responsible when the right time has come for us, or start discussion about these folks in the community. I would highly appreciate it. Regarding my statistics, I dug up the statistics from wikipedia, as all know wikipedia is a neutral forum where facts are listed and disputed facts are listed so. The point is I did not get straight from the Chinese government website or trying to promote their cause or lasting domination of Tibet as such. In fact, China is arguing all the time that Tibetans are majority in Tibet and Tibetan areas although they do know Chinese population overwhelms Tibetans. It seems our rangzen wallas dont get this fact and simply buys into certain nice statement because it satisfies one’s ego, not because it is practical or rational. My reason of giving the statistics is, Tsering Dorjee on this blog asked me a proof of millions of Chinese in Tibet since he either never knew about it or never went to Tibet, so I did as he requested. Also few other rangzen wallas or wanna be and self-enlightened rangzen wallas’ pretense of all I know attitude, I hope my simple internet dig help you guys and encourage further study and research in these critical areas of study relating Tibet beside rhetorics. In nutshell, rejection does not help, recognizing fact does not mean accepting Chinese policy. In fact, the more informed one is, the better choices one will make in speech and action. In the following, I am going to list the Tibetan names corresponding to Chinese names of all Tibetan prefectures and counties,
Ganlho = Gan Nan
Haibei = Tsochang
Hainan = Tso Lho
Huang Nan = Malho
Guoluo = Golok
Yushu = Yushul
Haixi = Tso Ngu
Aba = Ngawa
Ganzi = Garze or Karze
Deqing = Dechen
Muli = Mili
Tianzhu = Thewuzhu
Ziling or Siling
Xizang = bhod rang jong jong
Regards
NG
New generation, nobody is disputing that we have a crisis in terms
of mass influx of chinese inside Tibet, anx by some estimates close to
7 million chinese inside Tibet. Wat u fail to take into account is ur
presentation of it and your holier than exile tibetans attitude that is a
Constant thorough out this blog. The second issue is ur prejudice against
JN without regard for his work. It is of course not only good but necessary
in a discussion to present ur argument but it should be done in the spirit of
learning together , instead of trying to prove something on the forum. U say
Here u consider Goldstein a chinese running dog propagandist and
apparenlty u like those articles, but u never wrote anything about those
wonderful articles on this blog. Why is that? That is why i take exception
to people like u whose only goal seems to be to denigrate JN without
paying kudos where they needed to be paid, not that JN would in either
case but becuase it tells us a little bit about the writer and his/her mentality
And purpose; his thirst for knowledge, her approach, his arrogance And so on
So forth. If u wish to be taken seriosly as a concerned Tibetan, it will
Be beneficial to be honest about ur motives and if u are sincere about
Getting exile Tibefans to learn more about the particulars, it woild be
better not to be condescending, which u have Done plenty. Ur objective
Will not materialize, unless it is to toot ur own horns. U mention generalization
and yet u have no problem generiling Kudraks for the failed Tibet nation when
anybody with a half a brain knows that wasnt the main problem even if
One takes a cursery look at history. when Ngabo was heralded as a
Patriot by Tibetan parliamnet, but it is very clear Kundun though so
judging by one interview on that topic, we dont hear one peep out of u
? Are u not letting ur own prejudice take over ur argument? it is highly
comical to observe a hypocrite calling out others but then most hypocrites
are like that.
Gen Jamyang Norbu la,
No second thought needs to be spared to declare that you have a damn good knack of criticizing anything that do not follow the path of Rangzen. When it is spiced up with ur good writing skill, then u simply tend to blow up the matter beyond proportion. In the above write up u have mentioned,”By extension, it also implies that those thousands who believe in, fought and died for independence are good hearted but brainless citizens.” Anyway why need to make the extension? Even if u make an extension, why did u do an opinionated extension? U also have stated, “If Lobsang Sangay seriously wishes unity, then he will have to make an extra effort to accommodate different opinions”. Your this very write up is spitting venom against Dr. Lobsang Senge’s middle way stand without the least hint of “accommodating different opinions” and there is no sign of your “making extra effort” to do the same. My view is that it would be good if u could use your good writing skill more against China, than against ourselves.
With much respect!
Tenzin Sonam,
This piece is not from Jamyang Norbu but from me, as indicated above and on the blog’s home page.
Its evident from posting that Tibetans are educated, thoroughly aware of global affairs and well versed in their history.
The only reason we are not able to produce any results is, we seem unable to focus our attention on a single objective.
All young and educated Tibetan must feel the need to put their time and energy together and brain strom what we can do under the present reality and scope.
Whenever we engage in a debate, the underlying objective must be to correct past mistakes and march forward. We can lay blames on the past generation, but what good will they do if we just dwell in it and be bitter.
What kind of rallying point we are going to use to unite and fight Chinese ?
Under fast globalisation, ” Non violence and unity” seem to be our choice of path. Lets be creative and walk on the path.
Guys, think.
Regards,
Dokpa
Newgenerationtb: thanks for the information. I was thinking it was a lot more than that number.
Dokpa la, if you have two different objectives which are opposites, it is very hard to create a unified objective. It is like being pulled in two different direction. I don’t know how to address that and I think a lot of young people are confused due to this issue and that leads to appathy for the movement itself.
since kalden lodoe doesnt pick up the phone any more. i sent this to his email which is catatibetan@yahoo.com , lodoek@rfa.org
everybody here do the same or something similar to protest his sick conduct on TYC President in clear cut terms so this sort of stupidity is not repeated in bodhgaya 2012 and in the future.
“”””Kalden Lodoe,
I don’t need to know why you did what you did or who or what influenced you to kick TYC President out of Kalachakra venue yesterday nor do I need to know your motive but the fact is you did insult and humiliate the President of the most trusted, beloved and democratic organization we have in exile working for our independence-the key to the survival of Tibetans as a people, culture and nation.
It is the most despicable and undemocratic conduct on your part as a Tibetan and especially as the President of a Tibetan community. I condemn your act of blatant disrespect toward TYC President and to those Tibetans who strongly believe in independence.
Therefore, I demand an immediate oral and written apology from you failing which I swear I will not fail to treat you as another CCP thug. As a Tibetan I demand your immediate resignation from your public post.
We may have differences of opinions on our cause which can be expressed through the freedom of speech or writing but not through any such undemocratic physical behavior. The less physical dramas we have among ourselves, the better or else uncle China will always continue to have last laugh.
Yes, I m absolutely shocked but not surprised. This is coming from Dhasa. That’s what I have been bitching for long. We have two fronts to fight:
1. China– as our number one enemy from whom we shouldn’t expect anything coming voluntarily
2. Our own leadership who has betrayed our trust since 1987 by abandoning the goal of national independence and burying its head deep in the wisdom of brown nosing chink ass. Sure, independence is not easy, but what is fucking easy anyway? Taking the stand in the wrong direction is not making anything easier or feasible or practical. Oppression has never complied with freedom voluntarily. Our leaders know this but despite this awareness they embrace this philosophy of lick and suck anything Chinese. Why? Easier and more comfortable, behind the Dalai Lama shield, and go about your govt jobs, business and political career?
If our people are a bit more aware and active politically, this lunatic philosophy of autonomy wouldn’t have taken its ugly birth, even if it did we would already have been thrown in the midst of a civil war to right the wrong within first. Fuck the political paternalism. Respect people’s freedom to be free. Fuck China . Fuck your poor conduct and lastly fuck you too.”””
Tsering Dorji la, obviously you did not read in between the lines. I said total numbers of Chinese in Tibetan Autonomous Area is not really counted and it always remains 95% of pupolation is Tibetan due to political reason. Dont think, but research and go there and see for yourself. You are one of those TYPICAL. If you need the big news on unbalanced population which is always enormouse, then wait another for 10 years in sleep and make irrational judgement far way, when you wake up, you will get the true number. By that time, you comfort will be threatened as well if you make too much public judge against the concerned parties.
Cheer dude
NG
Tsering Dorjee lak,
I totally agree with you. As a Tibetan we are subjected to to opposite world views and in this concrete world we are experiencing globalisation and nationalism at the same time. If our struggle were 50 years ago, it would have been easier. And yes, when we are pulled into two directions it will affect our objective. But, then should’t we take this “very unique challenge and see what we can do with it?” will Karmapa help us solve this unique puzzle?
Regards
Dokpa
“Wherever there will be aggression,there will be resistance”(Mao).We have seen the resistance in 2008.I have read this some where on this blog?I can’t remember;thought, might share it with any one who may or may not have read or heard of this.
NewgenerationTB #178:Excellent argument.Very true with what had to say.Your comments raised the bar of the conversation we are having on this blog.Personally do not have much to contribute,but am a very good and sensible observer,willing to pay close attention to knowledgeable level headed writers even if he is from the other-side.
Hi all,
Patient Name: Tibet
Doctor’s Name: Tibetan youths
Diagonosis: Loss of Homeland, Destitute, scattered feeling with no objective in sight, hallusination ” If I take of my family, all my life’s problem will be solved”
Medication: Violence ? Middle way path ? Local remedies?
Intervention: Doctor to implement or administer the medications.
Prognosis: Freedom or Autonomous regions within few years if the Doctor implements the remedies with unity and with intensity. Action !!!!
Dopka
Tomorrow will be the day for all Tibetans to come together to greet our new Kalon-Tripa.Let us all congratulate Dr Lobsang-Sangay for a bright and fruitful future for Tibet and the Tibetans and himself.Let us receive our new leader with open arms.
“CONGRATULATIONS Dr.LOBSANG SANGAY-LA”.WISH YOU NOTHING BUT THE SUCCESS !!!
All the best for the new Katri!!!
All the best, PM Dr. Lobsang Sangay la. Tashi Delek! Bhod-gyallo!
“blaming other is nothing more than executing our self”. Criticism is GOOD only if it criticize in a positive way.. Some time we forget about our destination and lose somewhere in the journey. In case of the above quote, that whether it is written by Winston Churchill or else. What is there to criticize. Such a Criticism looks like a childish act.. BODH GYALO.. FREE TIBET..
Thanks J.N. i regard you as God.
DEAR brothers and sisters,
this is really good plat form t discuss but would please mind the usage of language and it would be very helpful if you know the limitation of suggestions and criticism.
thinley jamphel