WHAT MUST I DO?

 

In 1946 when the Muslim League declared “Direct Action Day” and some of the most horrendous and large scale Hindu-Muslim violence erupted throughout India, one of the worst hit areas was the Noakhali district of Bengal. Mahatma Gandhi walked barefoot through village after village in this district, in an angry and hostile atmosphere, trying to persuade people to take a pledge not to kill others. Some strewed thorns and filth in his path and one man even physically attacked him. Gandhi was then 77, but undaunted kept on with his march for peace. Even in this darkest and seemingly most hopeless moment of his life, he was single-mindedly action-oriented. He was heard constantly murmuring to himself.

Kya karoon? Kya karoon?”  “What must I do? What must I do?” A biographer noted: “At that moment, he was magnificent.”

Tibetans all over the world are asking that question in the wake of the “fire protests” of the eight young monks and, today, of the nun, Tenzing Wangmo (age 20) in Ngaba. Demonstrations, stand-ins, vigils, marches, hunger-strikes, petitions and signature drives have been organized in Minnesota, New York, Dharamshala, Taiwan, London, New Delhi, Geneva, Paris, and other cities.

In Tibet itself the acts of self-immolation have not taken place in isolation. and protests have been reported in the surrounding region and the calls for wider protests are growing. Four days ago two Tibetans were shot by Chinese troops during a protest outside a police station in another part of Sichuan province. Woser la has been blogging incessantly and so have other Tibetan writers and bloggers in Tibet and China, Check out High Peaks Pure Earth for an English translation of a poem “Mourning” by the blogger Sengdor which appeared on October 11th.

But little notice has been paid by the world to the “fire-protests” in Tibet, there has only been some passing references on CNN, and a couple of brief reports in the BBC. Of course the world media has never been noticeably outspoken or brave when it comes to reporting on Tibet and China, but that is a given. I think that something else is using up all the available media oxygen at the moment. The “Occupy Wall Street” protests have spread to over sixty cities worldwide and show every sign of getting bigger and noisier by the week. I am completely supportive of this protest, and since the issue is one that affects everyone (whether you support the protestors or not)  it is going to dominate the headlines for weeks to come. That’s why in my previous posting I suggested that our biggest demonstration of support to the people in Tibet should be five months from now on 10th March 2012. But I absolutely support the demands of feistier spirits that we have to do something right now

So what can we do?

A Tibet activist in Switzerland has come up with a brilliant idea. The beauty of the scheme is it’s unbelievable simplicity:

•    It needs no more than two people to execute.
•    It takes little time, about ten to twenty minutes at the most.
•    It is completely legal and not unsafe in any way.
•    It requires no resources other than a piece of chalk and a digital (cellphone) camera.
•    Each action, like an individual brick in a building, has a definite and structurally important place in the overall success of the project.

And that’s it. I am not kidding.

Go to http://www.chalktibet.org/  If you go to the site and click on the “How does it work…? Tab” you’ll get the instructions. This action can be done on the fringes of an organized demonstration, at periodic moments during a march, or at any opportune time and place (preferably a place with a lot of foot traffic, where people will gather and look on). This action began in Switzerland and is now being taken global. Join in! And pass on the web address to all your friends, support groups or other interested parties!

Here are the instructions (from the site):

________________________

How does it work…?
The recent self-immolation protests that took place in occupied Tibet call us to action! We can’t remain silent, yet what can we do to effectively generate broad awareness of the tragic situation in Tibet that is driving Tibetans to such desperate measures? Well, here is one simple, yet thought-provoking action that can be undertaken very easily, at no cost and with little time:
Using a simple piece of chalk, let’s outline the Tibetan dead in our streets.
The objective of this action is to generate the buzz which will cause it to go viral, along the lines of guerrilla marketing. This means that your particular action in this campaign needs to be shared among your friends and, via a dedicated website, among larger online communities.
How to proceed
This powerful action requires very little: two persons, one piece of chalk and a camera. Here’s how to do it:
1.    Choose a busy spot or a place with symbolic significance in your own town or city.
2.    One person lies flat on the ground, as if he or she were a dead body (this should draw much attention by itself).
3.    The other person draws a chalk outline of the body.
4.    Tape a piece of paper with a message inside the chalk outline or write the message directly on the ground with chalk. A typical message might read “Once again this morning [or yesterday, or last week] a Tibetan committed self-immolation in Tibet in protest against China’s brutal occupation”.
5.    Take a photo of the scene.
Post the photo here and on your favorite social networks, requesting your friends to do the same in their own towns and cities.

_________________________

A few suggestions of mine (JN) for color, identification and variety. Just one idea per photo. Keep it simple. Think up some new ones.

  • Stick a small paper Tibetan flag inside the outline. Maybe at the head?
  • Put the (framed) photographs of the the nine in the outline.
  • Place some flowers, wreaths and khatags inside the chalk lines
  • Spread some ash or make scorch marks within the outline.
  • Have a monk meditating within the chalkline.
  • Try for a little background in the shot: bystanders and something to suggest the place. But don’t sweat it. The outline comes first.

I believe these and other actions and projects will draw the attention of people the world over to the sacrifice of the young nun and monks and their demands for freedom and the return of the Dalai Lama to Tibet.  I believe that all the many marches, protests and future demonstrations will contribute to igniting a rangzen revolution throughout Tibet. I believe that in the not too distant future the Chinese Empire will “wither away” as all evil empires have invariably done so, and I believe I will have an opportunity to make a small contribution to the creation of an independent democratic Tibet.

Gandhi told me so. “Men often become what they believe themselves to be. If I believe I cannot do something, it makes me incapable of doing it. But when I believe I can, then I acquire the ability to do it even if I didn’t have it in the beginning.” Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

Comments

  1. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | October 18th, 2011 | 4:35 pm

    This is a brilliant idea and something that can be done easily. thanks for the heads up.

  2. Palden Gyal | October 18th, 2011 | 5:18 pm

    yes, brilliant!

  3. Cari Trousdale, St. Paul, MN | October 18th, 2011 | 5:38 pm

    What a wonderful idea. Thank you so much for posting this. I feel so helpless and overwhelmed by these desperate acts!

  4. PURBU GONPO | October 18th, 2011 | 6:49 pm

    Imagine these outlines chalked on the pavement outside every Chinese Embassy and Consulate office around the world!

  5. The Other Dawa | October 18th, 2011 | 7:22 pm

    Insanely brilliant idea.

  6. Tsering Dolker | October 18th, 2011 | 8:29 pm

    Ahhhh very good and creative.

  7. Elliot Sperling | October 18th, 2011 | 9:31 pm

    And please don’t forget to put your photos up at http://www.chalktibet.org in addition to any other sites at which you choose to post them.

    Get busy and start adding to the photos from Geneva!

  8. KALSANG PHUNTSOK | October 18th, 2011 | 9:47 pm

    i pledge to stand up for tibet with http://www.chalktibet.org

  9. tenzin migmar | October 18th, 2011 | 9:59 pm

    yap tats a good idea jamyang la but the question still remains ????? IS THIS ENOUGH???
    I think the public aweraness campaign is being done by the past few years but it had hardly any affect on the chinese policies against tibetan issue. I am not saying its wrong to campaign(media attention) but we have been doing all these years but issue remains the same.I discuss this with my friends and they say that it will make a difference but when asked “how” they seems to have no answer for that.

    The chalktibet campaign is a wonderful and innovative idea and ill tell my bodies here to implement this today at our fast cum strike !!!!

    BOD GYALO

  10. NewgenerationTB | October 19th, 2011 | 12:12 am

    Very nice! But informing the outsiders and ourselves past 50 years…..still continue the same old and futile way of struggling cause?

    NG

  11. The Other Dawa | October 19th, 2011 | 12:56 am

    NG buddy, you are almost giving me the courage to shoot myself.

  12. Marc lemieux | October 19th, 2011 | 4:36 am

    Je suis profondement inquiet du désespoir de ces jeunes tibêtains, moines et moinesses qui font une action si contradictoire avec leurs voeux , mais je suis tout autant bouleversé par ce monde, ces nations, leursmédias qui ont un silence complice avec cette Chine.
    How many young tibetans will it take for the nations of the world and their medias to acknowledge the suffering and the despair of the oppressed tibetans!

  13. Valerie | October 19th, 2011 | 6:26 am

    Hey guys, I’m participating in the German Occupy The Planet movement. We are camping in Franfurt, discuss this world in Berlin, etc.
    You probably know what conceptual mess this all is at this point, but demnds are being formulated, actions planned.
    We think of you a lot!!!!!!
    We think if you, who live in Mc Leod Ganj try set up an Occupy Dharamsala movement and connect yourselves to us and other countries involved in this, well, we hope to change things. You all know betterthan us, that happens to you is so insanely linked to what we’ve grown to feel so sick and tired about here in the West. With sincerety from us Injees.

  14. Valerie | October 19th, 2011 | 6:27 am

    Am sorry for all those typos! :(

  15. Gyakhab Rangzen | October 19th, 2011 | 9:43 am

    stick a flaming independence monk poster in the middle of the drawing.

  16. NewgenerationTB | October 19th, 2011 | 11:15 am

    Be careful folks, China is waiting for an opportunity to label US as terrorist thus take away our support from people across the world, they tried and failed….again tries….here you go…

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/usa/china/2011-10/19/content_13935032.htm

    http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=621011

    NG

  17. Agu Tonpa | October 19th, 2011 | 2:11 pm

    NewgenerationTB;
    Why do you care? Don’t you wanna happen it that way and live peacefully as Chinese Citizen? You cynic, moron f**k off from here.

  18. NewgenerationTB | October 19th, 2011 | 5:55 pm

    Agu Tongpa, Why do I care? Because I have bigger stake in this mess than run away coward people like you who is totally uprooted from the issue and land. Why I have bigger stake, my families and alike, majority of 6 million Tibetans live there and hold onto the land whose life is in danger. Therefore, we dont want useless rhetoric to hurt the relative peace however worse it is. Of course, we do desire and demand more for improvement, and it will be done with or without your empty rehtorics. It should be done without increasing suffering in the region because it affect real people with real lives. The core question is not about your rootlessness and detachment from the land of snow, it is about more than that. Whether I would love to be a citizen of China or not is not the question to ask, if there is/will be comfortable life and everyone is happy with their lives, citizenship will not bother and matter much. I think the empty rhetorics from rangzen wallas from the confort zone give fodder to Chinese government’s increasing crackdown as a rason. I am concerned because His Holiness’s life long establishment of the method of the struggle and internationally recognized non-violent way to address issue is at RISK because few zealous people who do not have to take the impact of politics, but rhetorics that satisfies their own political egos pretends as if they can take up arms, as a matter of fact, they dont dare to take up a ax against the Chinese government. So, I am telling you, be real, dont be fake in your rhetorics! Our lives are not a game on which your politics can gamble from comfort zone. People like you only increases confusion in communities across the globe and specially in Chinese establishment, without real positive effect, who dare not to take a match into Tibet on the excuse of “TOO DANGEROUS CHINEE GOVERNMENT” and will never go there, yet you and your rangzen guru JN encourage more immolation as if you really organize it, thus giving more fodder for China’s wild imagination, in real life, you dont have any impact over there. Your empty rhetorics only obstruct and undermine the policy of TGIE and Dalai Lama’s life long work, but more importantly, usher in more crackdown. If you really do something concrete and then talk, I would appreciate and I dont have comments, otherwise, I would say shut the fuck up and be real! So, in the future, when you talk, dont write with emotions, but write with reasons. This does not mean you have to support a specific political philosophy, but be responsible for your writings. Agu Tongpa is epitome of flip-flop liars in Tibetan cultural legend, you are truly epitome of him in real.

    NG

    PS: Webmaster, plz delete above comment, this is corrected version. Thanks!

  19. Tsering Dolker | October 20th, 2011 | 1:26 am

    How can u be a runaway coward if u were
    Never in the place to run away from? That is
    like accusing someone of cheating in an exam
    she never took.??? Lets see, if i get this right. So,
    everyone who came to India from Tibet is a
    runaway coward to u. I am sure they will be
    extremely pleased to be typecast like that.

    Can u also point to the specific paragraph and
    sentence where Jamyang la encouraged self-
    immolition.

  20. Agu Tonpa | October 20th, 2011 | 12:21 pm

    #18, Please find below the gist of what you wrote and find out yourself whether you wrote it with reasons OR with emotions. These are all your writings with my little additions(in uppercase):

    We dont want useless rhetoric to hurt the relative peace. WHERE? IN TIBET?

    Of course, we do desire and demand more for improvement. HOW ARE YOU DEMANDING MORE?

    I have bigger stake in this mess than run away coward people like you who is totally uprooted from the issue and land. DIDN’T YOU RAN AWAY FROM TIBET? I WAS BORN In INDIA, AND CHINA NEVER ALLOWED ME IN BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF ME.

    The core question is not about your rootlessness and detachment from the land of snow, it is about more than that. WHAT? I THOUGHT YOU WERE ACCUSING ME OF THAT, SOMETHING THAT I DIDN’T.

    Whether I would love to be a citizen of China or not is not the question to ask, if there is/will be comfortable life and everyone is happy with their lives, citizenship will not bother and matter much. THERE YOU GO. NOW YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE COMFORT ZONE! IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU’VE BEEN SONAMCHEN (LUCKY), YOU’D CHOOSE CITIZENSHIP OF ANY COUNTRY THAT PROVIDES A COMFORTABLE LIFE.

    People like you only increases confusion in communities across the globe and specially in Chinese establishment. I TAKE THAT AS COMPLIMENT. THANK YOU.

    thus giving more fodder for China’s wild imagination, in real life, you don’t have any impact over there. WHAT? YOU JUST TOLD ME I HAVE SOME ABILITIES TO CONFUSE ESPECIALLY CHINESE ESTABLISHMENT.

    yet you and your rangzen guru JN encourage more immolation. READ THE ARTICLE 100 TIMES BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

    HE THEN ADVISE US, LISTEN PEOPLE: So, in the future, when you talk, don’t write with emotions, but write with reasons. HHHHMMM! HOW SHOULD I UNDERSTAND THAT? WHEN I TALK, I TALK WITHOUT HESITATION, I DON’T WRITE DOWN LIKE A COWARD.

    NEVERTHELESS, I WILL WRITE HERE BOTH WITH REASONS AND EMOTIONS: F**K OFF, YOU DON’T BELONG HERE. YOU ARE BRINGING DISGRACE TO THE NEW GENERATION TIBETANS.

  21. Sangay | October 20th, 2011 | 12:34 pm

    Talking about ‘runaway coward’, now that should put NewgenerationTb squarely in the list of runaway cowards. He left Tibet for the comfort and freedom of free countries, first India and now USA. Lets put things in perspective.

  22. Chinese Engineer | October 20th, 2011 | 2:31 pm

    “ND CHINA NEVER ALLOWED ME IN BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARED OF ME.”

    more like they didn’t want any more retards.

  23. daveno | October 20th, 2011 | 2:59 pm

    Just as “How can u be a runaway coward if u were
    Never in the place to run away from?”.

    How can we not differentiate between ‘knowingly runaway with the intention to runaway’ from
    not-knowingly commiting the act without any runaway motive”.

    Tsangma lo shuk jap!

    chinese engineer..chakpa sa!

  24. Golok Ambum | October 20th, 2011 | 3:11 pm

    Advice to fellow commentators: don’t even bother to respond to Chinese Engineer. If China wasn’t scared of us, he wouldn’t spend his time around this blog.

    Golok Ambum, Webmaster

  25. Tsoltim N. Shakabpa | October 20th, 2011 | 4:13 pm

    Brilliant idea!

    Also put 9 burning candles in the middle of the chalked figure in honor the the nine selfless patriots who sacrificed their lives for us.

  26. Chinese Engineer | October 20th, 2011 | 5:13 pm

    “If China wasn’t scared of us, he wouldn’t spend his time around this blog.”

    Let me point out two obvious fallacies here:

    1) I’m not in the employ of the Chinese government. I’m here to poke holes in idiotic arguments

    2) If China were scared of you, they would be negotiating with you in earnest, not shoving you aside like the pile of manure that you are.

    Clearly a western lifestyle/education has not sharpened your logic.

  27. Young Punk | October 20th, 2011 | 11:17 pm

    h

  28. Young Punk | October 20th, 2011 | 11:19 pm

    Hwy NewgenerationTB arsehole. Just shut the fuckup! you worthless piece of shit!

  29. Tenzin Nyinjey | October 20th, 2011 | 11:50 pm

    Dear Readers,

    Chinese engineer and his ideas do make a lot of sense.

    Never forget Buddha’s wisdom ‘enemy is your best teacher.’ Or for that matter Sun Tzu’s, ‘to win the war, you have to know your enemy.’

  30. Dave | October 20th, 2011 | 11:57 pm

    DAVENO #23, should I ask my Tibetan teacher what “chakpa sa” means, or will she be embarrassed?

  31. Tibetan Engineer | October 21st, 2011 | 12:14 am

    I agree that china is not scared of us, you are right chinese engineer. but they are guilty as old dog. thats why they dont want to talk to us. they are thief who got caught red handed by the whole world. they have nothing to talk.

    The other point I agree with you is, yes, you are not employed by chinese Gov, because you dont get paid by them. but believe me, you are non paid employ like many other that we have seen. carrying huge red flag and talk to us with funny accent. you may not know you are employed by your gov, but trust me, they do, they already fucked up your brain since you are in grade three. I know some of those at my work and they dont look very good, man.. at my work we are just being nice and pretend they are normal but they seems to be living in completly diffrent world. they lie, cheat, exaggerate and they think it is right thing to do. well, actually they do think it is right thing to do. funny!

  32. Tenzin Nyinjey | October 21st, 2011 | 6:06 am

    For Tibetan Engineer,

    Master Thangtong Gyalop, the greatest engineer the world has every produced till date, the builder of the iron-bridges, the iron that never rusts (literally speaking) would be proud of you! Cheers!

  33. Rewalsar | October 21st, 2011 | 7:00 am

    At this moment, the world’s effort must be to stop this immolation, Chinese included. It is hard to understand why the world is so silent. Isn’t this something that people can not see any more?

    The world’s known “non-violence” advocate Mahatma Gandhi time and again threatened his enemy of his death, but he never did it in practice. Nor did he encourage people to take one’s life. He encouraged people not to co-operate with one’s enemy. This was the heart of his philosophy. And this doesn’t mean kill oneself in protest.

    The courage of those who immolated themselves are historic and will always be remembered. Their sacrifice will not go in vain.

    But dying is not a solution. It never will. Tibetans must adopt a path of life and not of death to fight for their freedom. Every single Tibetans must be educated not to kill oneself in protest whatsoever.

    Every life is precious and must be saved. This is truth and Truth Triumps.

  34. daveno | October 21st, 2011 | 7:46 am

    Cho cho Dave @30,

    The meaning sould be understood within the environment and background to which it belongs..not take it in general casual interpretation.
    She will be happy to know that tibetanness still exist in virtual world.

    otherwise, gondhak-thukdhen to you!

  35. THENORBU | October 21st, 2011 | 8:08 am

    Chinese Engineer,

    “”2) If China were scared of you, they would be negotiating with you in earnest, not shoving you aside like the pile of manure that you are.

    Clearly a western lifestyle/education has not sharpened your logic.”"

    They would not negotiate with us in earnest,they have nothing to negotiate in their favour,only the giveaway pieces from TGiE.They are shoving us not as pile of manure but as an stronger opponent that they need to AVOID.

    Your western style logic is fine but not upto B’s but you forgot to consider the Human elements that drive the forces.

  36. Dave | October 21st, 2011 | 11:33 am

    Rewalsar, the world is silent because the world doesn’t know. Where I live, in western Pennsylvania, USA, the city newspaper has mentioned only one of the self-immolations, and in a very short paragraph without any context about why it happened. The corporate-controlled media don’t like to report things that make business partner China look bad. The chalktibet idea should be a good way to attract some attention by making the story local and getting local journalists to report on it.

  37. Chinese Engineer | October 21st, 2011 | 12:38 pm

    “they have nothing to negotiate in their favour”

    Except, of course, military and economic control over your “homeland”. Oh, and international recognition of China’s ownership over Tibet.

    “They are shoving us not as pile of manure but as an stronger opponent that they need to AVOID.”

    Really? Because avoiding someone in your dictionary apparently means inviting delegates in from Dharamsala and then tell them to shut the hell up, right?

    My question for you, Norbie, is that do you really have to make yourself sound like an idiot everytime you talk? Because you track record right now isn’t that great.

  38. Sheila | October 21st, 2011 | 1:24 pm

    Imho suicides happen when a person or group has reached a point of desperation. You have felt pressure or unhappiness for a long time, with no relief, and it grows worse until it becomes so severe you feel there is no other recourse.

    I found myself wondering whether those westerners who are quick to condemn these suicides would be equally quick to criticize the thousands of Jewish men, women and children who committed suicide in the face of National Socialist Party persecution.

    I think there’s the feeling that because these are monks, they experience no sense of desperation and are doing it only as a political protest.

    Some western and Chinese news outlets are further reducing the deaths to an emotionless, terrorist-like “anti-China” act–even describing it as “violence,” as if it were somehow hurting innocent bystanders.

    In this case, it’s clearly not just individuals but a group which has reached the point of desperation, which feels it has no other recourse, and that group is Tibetans in Tibet.

  39. thenorbu | October 21st, 2011 | 2:14 pm

    “Except, of course, military and economic control over your “homeland”. Oh, and international recognition of China’s ownership over Tibet”,

    Only an idiot will go move towards those line to deviate from what needs to be negotiated.

    “”"Really? Because avoiding someone in your dictionary apparently means inviting delegates in from Dharamsala and then tell them to shut the hell up, right?”"”

    Wasn’t that avoiding or running away from negotiation by playing hide & seek and bullying?

    Engineer,I am not sure if you had an opportunity to learn sakya lekshey..get that book and come back.

  40. Chinese Engineer | October 21st, 2011 | 2:19 pm

    “Only an idiot will go move towards those line to deviate from what needs to be negotiated.”

    What’s there to negotiate from the Chinese perspective? I’m actually very curious on what you think the Tibetan exile community has to offer to the People’s Republic.

  41. daveno | October 21st, 2011 | 3:03 pm

    Points to be noted.

    ww.simonbradshaw.net/2011/10/17/the-hazards-of-cherry-picking/

  42. Sheila | October 21st, 2011 | 3:54 pm

    @ChineseEngineer

    “I’m actually very curious on what you think the Tibetan exile community has to offer to the People’s Republic.”

    For starters, a system that results in less than 59% illiteracy, 92/1000 infant mortality, and the shortest life expectancy in “China.”

  43. Chinese Engineer | October 21st, 2011 | 7:33 pm

    that’s a very counterproductive goal for a regime purported to be hellbent on genocide, you know.

  44. Tsering Dolker | October 21st, 2011 | 7:59 pm

    Chinese engineer, why are u here?

  45. Chinese Engineer | October 21st, 2011 | 8:23 pm

    earning my 3.2 yuan per post, obviously.

  46. Tibetan Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 12:06 am

    @ Chinese engineer, “except, military and economic control over your homeland”? Yes, you said it right. Indeed, that’s exactly what your government is doing, not just talking. Economically and Militarily CONTROLED. You said word “CONTROL”, what does it sounds like to you? ‘Control’ not over things, but over human being, human spirits and his and her freedom. That is why we are making some noise, just a bit of noise, not blowing our self inside your so call NEST fill up with rowdy Hans. But you couldn’t handle our little noise and call us, Idiot, manure. What happen to your sense of humanity? Are you human at all?
    Oh, an international recognition of ownership of china over Tibet? Good Luck to you and your comrade. You don’t seem to have any idea what our parents, and under the leadership of HHDL have done within fifty years of exile. There are many governments who may like your business, not you. Matter of fact, they hate you. These governments are democratic government. “Chosen by the people”, if you don’t know what democratic means. They are control by the people not the other way around and these people are very different then your people. Anyway, forget it. You are in deeeep shit. That’s all I have to say for now.

  47. Tsering Dolker | October 22nd, 2011 | 1:28 am

    No, really. Why are u here? In 59 words or less, can
    u tell us? Go!

  48. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 2:07 am

    Dear Tibetan “Engineer”

    Why do I call you people idiots and such? Because the posters here can’t draw up a logical argument even if their life depended on it.

    I understand that your education may be lacking, since you can’t even differentiate “then” from “than”, but this is really no reason to broadcast your ignorance and stupidity.

    Briefly:

    I know exactly what the exile community has done in the last 50 years: aside from supporting an armed insurgency, nothing much. Since you claim to be an engineer, what performance metric do you apply to judge the effectiveness of the Tibetan independence movement? That’s obviously a rhetorical question, because you clearly didn’t apply an objective perspective, your conclusion would be very different otherwise – in other words, you’re full of shit, which hardly comes as a surprise given your previous post.

    As far as international recognition of for Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, what’s there to say? Can you name me a country that recognizes the TGIE as the legitimate government of an independent Tibet? You see my ill educated friend, when it comes to territorial acquisition, China isn’t the only one with skeletons in her closet (and if you ask me, not even close to being the worst), and setting precedence over international partitioning of a country solely due to the efforts of a vocal minority is more or less unthinkable (this goes beyond a simple matter of pro forma).

    As for your lofty ideals regarding democracy, well, occupy wall st ring any bells? It really should be occupy capitol hill. I can divulge a few juicy tidbits about the actual structure of American political power, but that would be a waste of my time when taking my audience into consideration, so let me just say that your interests do not necessary align with those who hold the most political capital in our (US) society.

    So, fellow “engineer”, which 4th tier institution do you have the pleasure of calling alma mater?

  49. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 2:13 am

    Well Dolker

    Food inflation in China is serious business right now, so I was force to take a side job. I got kids to feed, you know, and you wouldn’t believe the price of pork here. 3.2 yuan might not seem like much, but they add up real quick when you do your job right.

    Thanks for another RMB3.2.

    (59 words exactly)

  50. Tsering Dolker | October 22nd, 2011 | 2:58 am

    In 59 words or less, u avoided answering a
    Very basic question. Some engineer u turn
    out to be.

  51. jigme | October 22nd, 2011 | 6:41 am

    tsering dolkar and tibetan engineer . Please ignore this jerk chinese engineer. Hes just here to spew off his pseudointellectual stuff. Hes probably a frustrated middle aged nerd without a wife.

  52. Rewalsar | October 22nd, 2011 | 8:26 am

    No matter how bad the situation is, one must not kill oneself. Also one must not kill oneself for the good of others. Death must not be a means for altruism. The bravest are the ones who fight to live and help others to live.

    If the world prefers to keep silence, then the Tibetans themselves must speak and act. They must speak and act not by glorifying the death, but by glorifying the life of Tibetans. Long live Tibetans. Indians say “Jindabad!” and it means a lot. Tibetans must live and live to make Tibet a free country.

  53. Padma Kadag | October 22nd, 2011 | 10:35 am

    Chinese Engineer…
    When I read your commentary I see Mao giving his famous proverb “religion is poison”. I think you are, unfortunately, without a mother that loves you. What will you spend your 3.2 yuan for each post on? Porno? Having said that, though I find you entertaining, You should go for a long walk away from the distractions of your cell phone and the internet and breath some fresh air. Maybe find a nice chinese girl and have a cup of tea together. Isn’t that what your mother would want for you?

  54. daveno | October 22nd, 2011 | 10:49 am

    Chinese Engineer,
    I will perform a SHAPTEN for your recovery from deep institutionalized indoctrination.

    Which one would you prefer…
    1.bharchey lampsang
    2.doma bhumdheng
    3.Doechok
    4.Bhumstsok
    You dont need to spend your 3.2, take it as a gift from a fellow human.

  55. tashi7 | October 22nd, 2011 | 10:51 am

    chinese engineer…
    you suck….son of a bitch..kids are universally so innocent like little buddha and you are feeding your children with money earned from propaganda which oppresses tibetan people (violation of human rights).why would you like that bad karma on yur children.

  56. WANGCHUK | October 22nd, 2011 | 10:54 am

    hey you @ 52, YOU talking about bravery? don’t even go there.
    I too like most people wish that those monks and nun didn’t self immolate but neither you or anyone of us enjoying freedom in exile have the right to talk in the tone that you just did. how could you preach sitting in comfort in exile?
    Maybe some lamas and injis dont look at it kindly sitting on their thrones and preaching non violence but it is for US to put it in perspective.

  57. tashi7 | October 22nd, 2011 | 11:16 am

    The communist chinese regime forced tibetan women to do abortion of their child.In some villages of tibet pregnant women are loaded into the chinese truck like cattle to be taken to the make shift arrangement for abortion under unhygienic condition and also against the parents wish as well as religion.This is inhuman treatment and it is happening in reality.Due to no freedom for the press the most barbaric acts of chinese regime escapes the eyes of the truth loving citizen of the world.The true picture of chinese government came alive during tienamen square when they started killing thousands of peace demonstrators for their own rights.So chinese govt. can kill its own blood when it comes to holding on to power.Moreover,most of the chinese people do not know the real truth about the tibetans in tibet.all they know is from chinese govt. propaganda which belives in divide and rule.they instigate hatred between tibetans and chinese people.let the tibetan ladies have as many children as they would like.

  58. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 4:40 pm

    for all this talk of forced abortion, there certainly are a lot of Tibetan kids running around protesting their core language requirements, heh?

    Tibetan population has more than doubled since the 60′s, clearly this purported policy of mass sterilization and abortion isn’t working. I guess CCP has to start gassing Tibetans now, heh?

    I mean honestly people. Before you start accusing the CCP of implementing policies of genocide or mass sterilization, can you at least take the time to read some demographic data on Tibet?

    Unless, of course, you are looking to spread propaganda instead of the truth. Oh wait, I think that’s exactly what you’re doing.

    Carry on.

  59. WANGCHUK | October 22nd, 2011 | 6:06 pm

    CHINESE, JUST SHUT UP AND DO ALL OF US A FAVOR. GO TELL YOUR BOSSES THAT TIBETANS WILL NEVER GIVE UP THE CAUSE. BY NOW YOU SHOULD KNOW US A LITTLE BIT. EVEN IF IT TAKES US ANOTHER 50 YEARS THE TIBETANS WILL KEEP UP THE STRUGGLE. SO WHY DONT YOU SAVE THE CHINA GOVERNMENT ALL THESE UNNECESSARY TROUBLE. TIBETANS HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE.

  60. tashi7 | October 22nd, 2011 | 7:05 pm

    Before illegal occupation of Tibet by Communist chinese Republic,there used to be millions of monks studing buddhism and residing in thousands and thousands of monasteries bulit since King Tsongtsen Gangpo.During Mao’s cultural revolution monasteries demolised and monks driven out and the monks were forced to lead a lay person’s life.Having said that Tibets Demographic figure should have soared to the sky as a result of thousands of monks as well as nuns joined the reproduction of new generation tibetans.But tibetans population certainly not increased accordinly that way.Off course,through chinese population transfer policy heh?
    The chinese govt. establish schools for immigrated chinese settlers in tibet.The fees are so high that tibetans could not afford to send their kids to those schools.While tibetan wanting to learn their own language has no access to school.Well you are right tibetan kids running around being neglected by their chinese govt. No wonder these children grew up and realised that their chinese govt. has neglected their right to education and took desperate measures as self immolation to protest against their giant handful of political leaders who brutally suppresed peaceful demonstrator of tiena mein square.

  61. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 7:31 pm

    would you spend another 50 years campaigning for a free tibet? Would your children? what about your children’ children?

    You see, while you might not have much to lose, that’s not the case with the People’s Republic. Chinese aggregate investment in TAR itself is in excess of RMB 300 billion. The Tibetan plateau is probably the largest freshwater source for China. Let’s not mention abundant uranium and precious mineral resources.

    The great tragedy of Tibet, my ill educated and poorly read friend, is not the invasion of Tibet by the CCP, nor is it neocolonialism with Chinese characteristics. It is the perpetual and systemic mismanagement of the TAR by Beijing. Even after an astonishing amount of capital injection and human transfer, TAR is still, as Sheila unwittingly pointed out, the shittiest province to live in in China. That, my friend, is not just a great shame, that is an outrage. But this is hardly unique in China. Just take a look at the poorer parts of Anhui province.

    Why does this happen? Because of systemic mismanagement at the higher echelons of the CCP and rampant corruption from the municipal governmental layers on down. (most local governments in China today generate a substantial, if not a majority, of their revenue from land sales and leases, so you can imagine the shenanigans that go on).

  62. tashi7 | October 22nd, 2011 | 7:40 pm

    chinese engineer
    congratulations you won 3.2 yuan again!
    You are simply parroting the proganda of communist chinese govt. as acknowledged by you.
    As a matter of fact,if you doubt that mass forced abortion of pregnant tibetan village women had happened in tibet in the 2oth century,then you are most welcome to ask your benefactor CCP to allow investigation by UNO into the mass forced murdering of foetus (life) by the chinese govt.
    I am sure your communist chinese govt. do not like their lie(untruthful propaganda) about not engaging in mass forced abortion of pregnant tibetan village women against their will and also under unhygenic condition to be known by the world.Thats why,Communist chinese govt. does not give freedom to the press.
    This is the most savage act committed by your chinese govt. ok

  63. tashi7 | October 22nd, 2011 | 7:57 pm

    Buddhist self immolation are also for genuine cause and non -violent.
    Otherwise,when you decided to sacrifice your life for a cause why not be suicide bomber.heh?
    But no? these were budhhist monks —sacrificing their precious life in desperation hoping to draw the attention of the world towards the genuine cause of tibet.

  64. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 8:04 pm

    Having said all this, you would assume that I would at least sympathize with the crowd here, right?

    I don’t. And here is why:

    I think you are all retards, and retards only make problems, not solve them.

    In the roughly 60 years of TGIE’s existence, what exactly have they accomplished? What exactly have you, the Rangzan faction, accomplished? No nation has yet recognized the TGIE as the legitimate government of an independent Tibet, and CCP keeps mismanaging the TAR. So what exactly has your standoffish intellectual self masturbation accomplished? Let me tell you what: inflating your ego and rationalizing your worthless existence.

    If browbeating the Chinese isn’t working, try to find some common ground and engage in some productive ACTION. If I were Tibetan, and if alleviating the suffering of the Tibetan people is of paramount importance to me, I would drop the autonomy precondition and dive wholeheartedly into humanitarian efforts in Tibet. That’s clearly not what you morons did, or would do. No no. You must sit on your moral high horses and preach the virtues of democracy and self determination to an uncaring audience, the CCP and the Chinese public, while your brethrens continue to be mismanaged.

  65. Chinese Engineer | October 22nd, 2011 | 8:33 pm

    Tashi

    Let me first reiterate my opinion that you are utterly and completely retarded.

    I will now poke holes in your fallacious statements.

    “Before illegal occupation of Tibet by Communist chinese Republic,there used to be millions of monks”

    “Having said that Tibets Demographic figure should have soared to the sky as a result of thousands of monks as well as nuns joined the reproduction of new generation tibetans”

    MILLIONS or THOUSANDS? If the former, you’re retarded, because you have just claimed that roughly half (if not more) of all Tibetan population pre ’59 are monks. I don’t think that’s the case. If the latter, you’re also retarded, because 1000 out of 1000000 is simply a rounding error. Hence, you’re retarded.

    “The chinese govt. establish schools for immigrated chinese settlers in tibet.The fees are so high that tibetans could not afford to send their kids to those schools.”

    Actually Beijing’s policy is for free/heavily subsidized elementary education. And the education is offered in your CHOICE of Chinese or Tibetan. The present issue is the imbalance of Chinese based elementary education vs Tibetan based elementary education. The student protest that occurred was due to their secondary education being conducted exclusively in Chinese, with no Tibet text included. Considering that your college entrance exam is always in Chinese, I would say that this change wasn’t necessarily a bad one.

    “forced abortion”

    My statement is that IF systemic forced abortion and sterilization programs were implemented on the entire population, you should have seen a corresponding drop in Tibetan population growth. That has not been the case. Also, why go through relatively expensive forced abortions when you can simply kill the women? Seems like a waste of time and money to me to employ valuable medical professionals to limit the birthrate of a purportedly undesirable population when a case of 7.62×39 plus an unmarked mass grave is a much cheaper and expedient solution.

  66. Padma Kadag | October 22nd, 2011 | 8:55 pm

    Chinese Engineer
    “My statement is that IF systemic forced abortion and sterilization programs were implemented on the entire population, you should have seen a corresponding drop in Tibetan population growth.”
    There is no mention in Tashi7′s commentary regarding the “entire population”…this tells me that you yourself needed to bolster your argument because either you know that only certain regions in Tibet were sterilized and aborted or you yourself are retarded. Did you take my advice and go out and get a breathe of freah air? Is it true the chinese dine on Tibetan feotus?

  67. WANGCHUK | October 22nd, 2011 | 10:05 pm

    chinese, we know how the chinese think about us and we dont care. because we know what we are about and confident in that. even if you were a charitable person knowing how most chinese peoples’ values differ totally from tibetans , i dont expect you to sympathize with us. you just dont understand us. for the chinese, it’s all about numbers, your billions and for tibetans other things like identity, culture, family religion take precedence over those.

  68. Rewlsar | October 23rd, 2011 | 5:41 am

    A quote from the site of Angry Tibetan Guy (http://angrytibetanguy.tumblr.com/):

    “OMG !!! another self immolation in TIBET !Text5 days ago | Tags: self immolation tibet | Notes: 3
    This is really really sad. I empathize with my brothers and sisters in Tibet, but please don’t be killing yourself. It breaks my heart. We need you in our struggle. I don’t know if His Holiness the Dalai lama has issued any statement on this. If he hasn’t, i urge His Holiness the Dalai Lama to send an audio message or written statement through media to Tibet. I m 100% sure that they will listen to His Holiness the Dalai lama.

    I remember that time when the communal violence broke out between Buddhist community and Muslim community in Ladakh, HH the Dalai lama sent a written message to the Buddhist community there and it stopped at once.

    Please Please Please This has gotta stop ! :’(“

  69. tashi7 | October 23rd, 2011 | 10:04 am

    Tibet had been an independent country with rich culture and tradition while chinese(old map) was still colonised by the mongolian king.
    Tibet has three major provinces Kham,Amdo,and Utsang.It has authentic political map which had been legitimately accepted by the then neighouring countries China,India, and Nepal.
    THe communist chinese govt. illegally occupied tibet and also merged most of the tibetan land with china by changing the name of original tibetan provinces.
    They just dished out a tiny alongated land out of the vast tibet country and renamed it as TAR(tibet autonomous region).What you think chinese govt. can rewrite the history of tibet which belonged to one of the world’s oldest civilisation.
    yes,you asked what your TGIE did so far?
    hahaha the chinese govt. did killed one million and half tibetans already.Now off course they wanted to kill all the women,so that ethnic tibetans get wiped out from its own land and chinese govt. can rule for forever.But now world knows what a lier chinese govt. is!!!!The barbaric chinese rulers are using techniques that fit into the loopholes of the international law.
    For instance, mass forced killing of tibetan foetus against the wishes of their parents.
    Imprisoning the intelligent tibetans and torturing and killing them.THe chinese security people puched hard technically to the inner organs with no injury marks outside and when these imprisoned peaceful demonstrators are ready to die the chinese govt. handed to their parents.So its tricky way to genocide.and also very cheap right buddy?
    Can you bear a scorpion sting ?no? what you think the tibetans who gave up their lives for Return of His Holiness and free tibet by self immolation are jokes? No buddy!!!!
    We asked not for the sympathy but we asked the chinese ruler to let the chinese people and the world people see the reality inside tibet.So then they decide what to do themselves guided by their human spirit.ok.
    Gadafi is killed and why not chinese ruler ?
    No provision to study either their own language tibetan or coloniser’s language chinese.

  70. TSUNDRU | October 23rd, 2011 | 2:44 pm

    Chinese Engineer your ‘STYLE’ & MO reminds me of Bill O’Reilly or like Glenn Beck.
    Come to think of it actually more like Ann Coulter!!!!

  71. tashi7 | October 23rd, 2011 | 3:20 pm

    chinese engineer
    what is the cause of the ten horrifying self-immolation? The tibetans in tibet have been suffering second class citizenship treatment by chinese ruler and constane voilation of their basic human rights led to a point of desperation and thus self-immolate themselves.
    I am wondering about your chinese govt. propaganda regarding this to fool the world.The world like your business not chinese rule.The communist Govt. not following the philosophy set by Karl Marx.Your chinese govt. is wolf in disguise i.e. chinese totalitarian barbaric rule as wolf and is disguised as communist.

  72. Chinese Engineer | October 23rd, 2011 | 4:17 pm

    “Come to think of it actually more like Ann Coulter!!!!”

    I resent that comment. This might be the harshest thing anyone on this blog has ever said to me.

    And for you to claim such travesty, you’re either illiterate or stupid. Most likely both.

    Monsieur Beck, however, is eternally entertaining. Unfortunately he is no longer on the air.

  73. Tibetan Engineer | October 23rd, 2011 | 8:43 pm

    @ Chinese engineer, Logic and you cccp? Ha ha ha ha…. Sounds like a paty thief pick-pocketer name Chen li who stole my wallet with his chopstick skill trying to have a logical argument with me?? Ha ha ha he he… OMG, ok seriously, umm..he he he..umm ok now seriously, to the point. What I am saying is,
    CCCP is the thief and we are the victim here,.. flat-out, simple as that. What kind of logical argument do you have my dear Mr. Chinese rocket scientist engineer, doctor, professor, well educated man ???
    “Then from than”? Thank you for correcting. You sound like my grade three Chinglish teacher.
    “Aside from supporting an armed insurgency, nothing much.” Seriously?? That is why we think you are ignorant pin head, clearly sign of brain washed. What a pity.
    Personally, as a young hot headed Tibetan, I believe that supporting armed insurgency is what we should have done from the beginning, but today many young Tibetan including me and many innocent Chinese and CCCP thieves are alive because of our compassionate leader HHDL, who stand firm as Gandian. NOT preaching Binladanissem. Yes, I made up this word but you got the point, my chinglish Teacher.
    That is why he was awarded Noble peace price, US congressional medal, he may doesn’t know the different between, “then and than + broken English, so in your term ill educated” but every prestigious universities rush to award him an honorary degree. Wonder why??
    The Man who preach Peace and nonviolence not just for our country but for the whole world, is a terrorist and Devil to your boss. Now tell me who is retard and idiot?
    Your boss doesn’t believe in next life or rebirth but wants to claim reincarnation of 15th Dalai Lama. Does that sound logical to you my dear Mr. Rocket scientist rationalist???
    Even if your boss does believe in next life, why does he want Devil’s reincarnation?? Your CCCP is a laughing stock in front of whole world.

    What we have achieved within 50years? easy answer. Your CCCP’s failure to make us despair from the face of this earth and being pain in ass for Grand pa Wen and Pimp Hu, when ever they travel out of their comfort zone, And getting stronger and stronger. Isn’t this enough? Or you are expecting some AK47?

    “International recognition of for Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, what’s there to say” Seriously again, if you don’t think it is mere politic then you are a real door knob. Politic is like a weather, it can change any time. I have noooooo worries. In some way TEGI agree with this. So don’t be too naïve.

    “TGIE as the legitimate government”, don’t you know we recently vote our prime minister? We vote for this Government, WE TIBETAN and only Tibetan has authority and right to legitimise this goverment and we did it by voting. How legitimate do you need? Don’t tell me you chink has to come to vote for TIGE to legitimate.

    “China isn’t the only one with skeletons in her close”, poor you I see some guilt on your face now.

    “As for your lofty ideals regarding democracy, well, occupy wall st ring any bells?” yes I hear the bell but not just the bell, also drums too from the every corner of china. And it sounds like this. Drum Drum.. Occupy cccp, occupy cccp.. You didn’t hear that??

    “I can divulge a few juicy tidbits about the actual structure of American political power” Really? come-on again, Base on your perception of ‘AMERICA A PAPER TIGER’. Don’t make yourself look fool. They have your money, they have you right from your ball, its not squeeze yet but if some cowboy comes to “occupy capitol hill” and ring a bell not to give your money back. You can do nothing. Like Robert de niro says in a movie, “ you can do nothing”.

    I call myself engineer just to piss you of Mr. Chinese’ I am engineer’, ha ha ha. Your user name tells a lot about you Mr. Rocket. It tells how well your education has moulded your head. Your CCCP boss have done good job on you red flagger. Ha ha ha, … why don’t you call yourself rice-bowl, or something like that. It’s your pity ego that’s make yourself subject of joke. “I am engineer, doctor,” who gives a shit ha ha ha.. Engineering what? Fake Rolex? Yes, you guys are good at that. Not just a fake product but the whole store. I am talking about apple store. Good god. Even Fake catholic bishop. Fake Panchen Lama I can go on and on. What is wrong with you guys?? Seriously……
    Any way, how was your weekend? 

  74. tashi7 | October 23rd, 2011 | 9:58 pm

    nice reasoning tibetan engineer

  75. Chinese Engineer | October 24th, 2011 | 2:45 am

    So out of 790 words, all I got was: “I’m a stupid fucking cunt”.

    Enjoy your illiteracy.

  76. Scott N. | October 24th, 2011 | 12:58 pm

    Jamyang, I’m a hard-core Tibetan Buddhist who has taken several initiations. My root Lamas are the Lama Mipam and the Nechung Rinpoche who passed on in Hawaii. I haven’t yet met the new one.
    You are dealing with the People’s Republic as the final imperial Chinese dynasty, based on Marxism instead of Confucianism, and none of the old ways of either China or Tibet will work.
    I took a vow with Nechung that when the time was ripe, I would play a key role in building the new Tibet, and that time is now coming up fast.
    Norbu is a fake, and the 10th’s spirit is no longer with Nyima, so neither one will be able to determine the new 15th Dalai Lama. Then who?
    I’ll tell you when I see you.
    There is only one way that will work to free Tibet in the right way, it uses a form of ahimsa, but is very different from what HH has been proposing so far, and I want to meet with you and show you what has to be done.

  77. TSUNDRU | October 24th, 2011 | 2:30 pm

    Ref: 61

    “That, my friend, is not just a great shame, that is an outrage. But this is hardly unique in China. Just take a look at the poorer parts of Anhui province”.
    ———————————————————————————–
    I share your ‘OUTRAGE’ too.

    Posted under ‘Igniting the embers of INDEPENDENCE”Post# 73

    • TSUNDRU | October 21st, 2011 | 4:16 pm
    People in the know talk about the coming collapse of China. Is that now being debunked? Seems like that nation’s economy grows stronger each year & has turned economic theories upside down?
    While the rich get obscenely rich the picture gets even bleaker for those Chinese in the hinterlands. Now many parts of Tibet are a virtual military zone. Isn’t this the setting stage for expressions of dissent against political tyranny and dictatorship?

  78. Tibetan Engineer | October 24th, 2011 | 7:09 pm

    Tashi7 la, Nagchoe nang wa la, ning thak pa ne thug ji che… 
    ————————————————

    1.@Chinese engineer, if you are saying this, (So out of 790 words, all I got was: “I’m a
    Stupid fucking cunt”. Enjoy your illiteracy) to Me.
    Then, or than I didn’t say you are “stupid cunt”. Did I?
    But I see your expression as a clear sign of how you feel when you are running out of point to argue. its a good thing that At least, you seem to be not like one of those red-flagger who doesn’t stop there when they feel stupid. They have to win no matter what. The point here is not who is winning or losing or who is louder or bigger. If we want to live happily and let live our next coming generation happily, then we have to clean some mass that our previous generation including yours have left. It’s all about clarifying and cleaning up the mass, not who is winning or losing. Black cat white cat eating rat is outdated and very wrong twisted philosophy. Why you want your cat to eat rat when there is nutritious cutting-edge ingredients by Iams now a days. Let the rat alone. “Think Different” as Apple had campaign with big poster of HHDL the 14th.

  79. Valerie | October 25th, 2011 | 2:42 am

    Hello again, Tibetans,

    please, please study the Occupy Wall Street movement around the world! Please think about organising groups in Mc Leod Ganj and Shimla and
    Switzerland, wherever you are.
    This movement bears so much potential for a real change, and again, when there’s one people who got obscenely betrayed and abused by not only the Chinese governments but also the rest of the world, it’s you, non?

    I’ve been to Dharamsala for about 6 months in 2001. I came as your ususal big-eyed Hippie-girl but soon learned that humans, even when they face the most atrocious and…I’ll never have words for what you have to deal with, so even under all that perversions, still find the energy to hate each other, the Khampas are being disliked by the U- Tsangs and sadly many Khampas do their best to feed the clichés, the Amdo boys hang around totally lost in this world and the families with old ties to Lhasa’s old elites are behaving supremacist to the rest, women are treated….uhm..well…, but then other women are getting nasty, because someone ‘dared’ hanging pictures of His Holiness on eye-height.

    You know, our normal human incapabilities of overcoming bad and rather silly habits in order to form a strong community. Humans behave like that all ove the world. I mean, just follow the comments here.
    It’s like that all over the internet.Sarcasm, blatant dumbfuckery, douchebaggery, whatever.

    I feel the Occupy Wall Street movement is a very unifying experience for the people involved. Please study the way they are doing their General Assemblies! And think about starting your own ones. This will first be a healthy experience for yourselves, I hope, but when you further link yourselves with the movements around the world, you’ll also get attention from a) very, very nice people from inside the movement, good for networking, but also b) from the media. Please, please think about it!!!

    (Chinese engineer is just troll and should be put on inner ignore, what an outrageous insolence to come here to mock people who are trying to deal with the biggest shit imaginable as good as possible. They are just humans, chinese engineer, nobody is perfect, or are you. Shame on you, immature soul.)

  80. Valerie | October 25th, 2011 | 3:01 am

    Addendum: It’s also actually entirely buddhist, the OWS gatherings, so it’s inspired by your culture a lot! Bring it home, guys.

    And now I’m crying.

  81. Valerie | October 25th, 2011 | 3:13 am

    http://occupywallst.org/

  82. Valerie | October 25th, 2011 | 3:54 am

    Eh, one last thing. I shouldn’t have referred to it as Occupy Wall Street movement, the more precise name would be Occupy The World/The Planet/Together or so. The above link is just a first step. Check the internet for London, Melbourne, etc, etc.

  83. Valerie | October 25th, 2011 | 4:06 am

    How could you name your groups though?
    Oooh, now I’m really off.

  84. Rewalsar | October 25th, 2011 | 6:05 am

    #56

    “comfort in exile.”

    Do all Tibetans agree to this? Exile life sounds taugh”

  85. WANGCHUK | October 25th, 2011 | 9:15 am

    VALERIE, YOU’VE GOT IT! THAT IS A FAIR ASSESSMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY. THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND CARE.
    SCOTT, YOU ARE FUNNY, BUT YOU CARE, SO THANKS!

  86. Tibetan Engineer | October 25th, 2011 | 6:40 pm

    @ Valerie
    I feel your pain and as a matter of fact I was with the protest one time just to show my support. Cooperate greed does affect every ones pocket, especially now a-days it’s getting more obvious. Simple errand like banking, for example, they charge you mysterious fees here and there. And certainly there are more serious and bigger issues. You may ask individuals here to take part in a protest and believe me, I am 100% behind you, but if you are asking here to organise some kind of movement, that doesn’t seem right. It’s like you are asking to a naked man to borrow you a jacket.
    You came to Dharamsala as “OUR USUSAL” big eye hippie girl, and I am sure you might have tried some Momos & Thenthuk, umm..umm,, Its seem to me that you are bit shocked when you get to know our community more closely, but I would say not intimately. Six month is not enough to understand the community of two hundred thousand people who not only survive but doing quite well for over fifty years in exile. It’s true that we dislike each other some time, I wouldn’t say hate. But we also play together, dance, eat, study together. It is like every normal society. We complain, we bicker, you will find some grumpy old Tibetan Ama la wailing off the wall because she found picture of some Rinpoche under her ass. It shouldn’t be biggy. It is not like we are up to the edge of civil war.
    Valerie, if I met you in Dasa, I am sure you would have better prospective, doesn’t mean that I am going to be your Chinese tour guide, sugar coating everything. Keep up the good work of occupy wall-street or were ever you are. I will do my part here and encourage everyone here to do so.
    P.S. Wondering Where is Chinese engineer now??

  87. Valerie | October 26th, 2011 | 8:09 am

    Wangchuk-la: Tibetan Engineer is right though, it was a single-edged shot at the petty bickerings I’ve witnessed in Mc Leod, which made it more of an unfair assessment, actually. But thanks for getting what I meant in context!

    Tibetan Engineer: Yeah, I now regret some bits of my post, but I guess you got the notion behind it right. Btw, I wasn’t shocked at all, only educated about something related to all us humans. And ‘hate’ was a bad choice of a word, I’m sorry.

    To make up for that: Overall I have very fond memories of my stay and was much impressed. From all that randomly pops up now, I’ll pick a few:
    I miss your utterly premium class humour and laughter(most of all I miss those two soo much), your amazing openess and sincere friendliness and patience with all us sneaky or almost enlightened injis, your wonderful elderly sitting on rooftops or making the kora, turning their prayer-wheels and mumbling ‘ooooom mane peme mane peme huuuuum’ sounding as if they were imitating air-plane touch-downs. Momos and Thupka of course! And how can one not be impressed when walking by the reception center, seeing those kids and grown-ups, their cheeks still burnt and imagining what they’ve been through. And thinking of why they had to.

    In regard of the occupying movement, I sense that there is more to it than just critique of ultra-capitalism. Those ‘General Assemblies’, as made up by the Spanish this spring, provide a fascinating setting for a new, direct form of democracy. Great for any community, I reckon. Here’s a link to how you do them: http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/31/quick-guide-on-group-dynamics-in-peoples-assemblies/ Would give the Youth something constructive to do, brings people together to discuss and find solutions for maybe not your biggest questions, but problems of life in Dasa and the entire exile community.
    And you’d be part of something global which is hopefully growing, and thus scary for ANY system that is corrupt and builds it’s legitimation on twisted ‘logic’, lies and breach of human rights.

    Should I ever return to Mc Leod Ganj, I’ll happily inquire, Tibetan Engineer, for such a tour, that would indeed be great. =)

    Lha gyalo!

  88. Michal Synek | October 26th, 2011 | 12:26 pm

    Great idea, I have been thinking for weeks what I must do. I am from the Czech Republic and as some of the readers might know, that’s the country where two young men burned themselves to death in protest of the Soviet occupation in 1969. So, for us, the current events in Tibet are especially painful.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Palach

    Jamyang lags, I wonder if you would agree with translating your post and publishing it on http://tibetcesky.blogspot.com/
    the most visited Czech website about Tibet. We are planning a protest gathering for the 2nd of November, and I think that this idea might help.

    Thank you for your post! Bod rgyal lo! michal s.

  89. Sangay | October 26th, 2011 | 2:53 pm

    Tibetan engineer

    “I wonder where is chinese engineer now?” Your comment in #73 was like a 2 hundred ton bomb dropped to kill a rabbit. Maybe he’s recuperating, give him some time.

    Or maybe he’s alright, but busy preparing answers to ten or so questions Radio Chamdo asked him in another article in this blog. I can’t imagine any other reason for his absence. I dont think China is holding any exhibition in Beijing around this time (to show the world, as always, how ‘evil’ was old Tibet and Dalai lama and how grateful was Mao and CCP by ‘liberating’ Tibet) where his service might have been needed.

  90. Tibet watcher | October 27th, 2011 | 9:22 am

    Kalon Tripa SANGAY expelled a critical writer from his administration out of ANGER it seems:

    PHAYUL:
    http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?c=4&t=1&id=30243&article=Future+Prospects+of+Sangay‘s+Kashag
    KHABDHA(Tibetan):
    http://www.khabdha.org/?p=22922

  91. daveno | October 27th, 2011 | 11:57 am

    We do have Morons in our community.

  92. Tenpa Dhargyal Gashi | October 27th, 2011 | 5:13 pm

    “A bomb exploded in the building of Karma Town’s main office around 4 in the morning on October 26,” the source, whose name cannot be revealed out of security reasons, told Tibet Express.

    “The building had been damaged but no one was killed or injured as the explosion occurred at the dawn yesterday when no one was present at the site,” he added.

    The source said words reading “Tibet’s independence” are written in red colour on the destroyed walls of the office building and ‘Free Tibet’ fliers were strewn within the compound leading to authority’s suspicion that Tibetans could be behind this explosion.

    “No one is accused or arrested in this connection so far but the entire road access leading to and from Chamdo had been completely cut off including closure of Karma monastery,” the source said.

    The source also said all the monks in Karma monastery had been confined inside the monastic compound putting a strict control on their movement since the explosion yesterday.”

    Does anybody think this is a classic setup? I would like them to prove it but then it would be the same as asking them to prove Tibet is a paradise right now.

  93. The Other Dawa | October 28th, 2011 | 2:50 am

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/world/asia/harassment-and-house-evictions-bedevil-even-chinas-well-off.html?_r=1&hp

    A little piece of chura to chew on in these dark days.

  94. lithang jamso | October 28th, 2011 | 4:58 am

    This was possible Chinese policy that to blame tibetans are terrorist?

    I heard this from Nepal “A bomb exploded in the building of Karma Town’s main office around 4 in the morning on October 26,“Tibet’s independence” are written in red colour on the walls of the office building and ‘Free Tibet’ fliers were strewn within the compound leading to authority’s suspicion that Tibetans could be behind this explosion. “we must look back during the 2008 up rising or demonstration,during that time chinese army came with tibetan with swords and they robes like monk. their policy was to blame tibetans are terrorist. we could not say today’s explosion did by tibetans and we must research about this case. few days ago chinese foreign affair office speaker said that self-immolation protests were terrorist and violence and those influence from Dalai group and separatist. we must keep no-violence protest because of our support in this world.

  95. MountainLakeMan | October 28th, 2011 | 9:53 am

    EACH DAY CHINA GOVERNMENT IS GETTING MORE AND MORE WORRIED. AMOUNT OF MONEY SPENT ON INTERNAL SECURITY IS MUCH MORE THAN MONEY SPENT ON DEFENCE. COMPANY I WORK FOR DOES SOME BUSINESS IN CHINA AND NOW THE SHIPMENT HAS STOPPED AND DONT KNOW WHEN THEY RESUME. EVERYTHING BECOMING MORE EXPENSIVE THERE.
    THEY WILL RESORT TO ANY KIND OF MEASURE AND “HARMONIZE” THE PROTESTERS AND ANY KIND OF MOVEMENT.

  96. Rewalsar | October 28th, 2011 | 10:59 am

    It is rather sad to hear about the most recent developments in the Tibetan world. The way the news is spread through this blog is amazingly unique, thanks to the active commentators and of course the blog owner himself for allowing such a liberty. The real democracy begins right here, inter alia, the freedom of speech.

    It seems that the “fire protest” is tending to spread outside its original area, revealing Tibetan people’s utter discontent under the Chinese rule. But it must be hoped that this act does not become a trade mark of Tibetan people’s protest against China, simply because it is too gruesome, and also because there are plenty of alternatives, several of which could prove even more effective. Although the situation that surrounds the Tibet Issue (in the international arena and under China) is utterly pathetic, but Tibetans may not have to feel as desperate as to kill oneself to attract the world’s attention. There are millions and millions of foreign ears that are ready to listen what the Tibetans have to say. In fact the world is with Tibetans. And the Chinese today to a great extend are not as fiendish as one would imagine, because of the past trauma.

    Some of the issues raised by Sharchok Khukta (# 90) are disheartening ones, especially, the possibility of replacing Tibetan by English as the medium of instruction in CTA run schools. The existing Tibetan medium schools are the result of a few Tibetan visionaries. This model must be increased to its widest extend, rather than to shrink.

    The news of bomb blast in Karma town is scaring and sad, but is much better than that of the fire protest. Bombing towns and buildings (without harming the civilians) could attract greater attention. If Tibetans must show that “they are not ready to live under China whatsoever”, they must do it dignity and boldness, each giving one’s life the greatest value. The show must be conducted with the revolutionary spirit of a freedom fighter, keeping in mind the Indian slogan “jindabad!”.

  97. Rewalsar | October 28th, 2011 | 11:33 am

    … but no suicide bomb.

  98. TSUNDRU | October 28th, 2011 | 2:50 pm

    CCP is all geared up to combat the recent fiery protests from ALL angles.
    The bombing incident @ Karma Gon may well be one of their tactics to accuse Tibetans of being into ‘terrorist’ activities.
    The inauguration of the multimillion dollar anti-splittist Buddhist college is the most recent ‘Made in China’ campy thing ever so far.

  99. Kalsang Phuntsok | October 31st, 2011 | 10:00 am

    Severity of the struggle should at the least match the ruthlessness of the opponent. Otherwise, how can we even begin to hope for victory.

    These brave monks and nuns have told the world that it is impossible to live under the Chinese rule. To them the only choice is to die a thousand deaths by living a lifetime of humiliation and violation or die one death with dignity and respect intact. There is no doubt in my mind that they are Pawo and Pamo.

    Sar kata saktein hein lekin,
    Sar jhuka saktey nahin.

    “They may torture my body, break my bones, even kill me. Then they will have my dead body, but not my obedience.” ― Mahatma Gandhi

  100. Dawa | October 31st, 2011 | 9:03 pm

    I am going to be at the Chinese consulate on the 2nd. I hope our organizers carry out the Chalk Tibet idea. It’s one of the best ideas for getting attention which is the main point.

    I also hope they inform the media. Most of the time around where I am at it’s been us shouting some disjointed slogans and few cars honking and not much more.

  101. Christophe Besuchet | November 1st, 2011 | 2:32 am

    Dawa la,

    Don’t wait for the organizers to carry out Chalk Tibet actions. This is something to be done on an individual level, for instance on your way to the demonstration, while waiting at a bus stop. If really you wish to have some outlines done in the front of the Chinese consulate, get there a few minutes before anyone else and do the job. That’s what we did in Geneva, in front of the United Nations offices, before the narrow-minded leaders of the local communities could refrain us from doing so. http://bit.ly/mWDfPp

  102. Pema T. | November 1st, 2011 | 2:38 am

    Tsering Dolkar,

    It’s high time you come out with your own opinion rather than making yourself a watch dog of this forum. And in defense of Jamyang lak, you’re making scapegoat of others. And don’t ask questions like “ChineseEngineer, why are you here & all this stuff? If you have the guts to confront him through your writings & reasoning, just like others are doing here, then heads up to you, otherwise, making fool of yourself & showing your arrogant behavior will not help to have a good discussion here.

    Next time, I want to see you having a logical discussion with Daveno & NewgenerationTB. And stop name calling others if it doesn’t impress you, come out with your own logic & be a women of substance.

  103. Tsering Dolker | November 2nd, 2011 | 3:33 am

    Thanks Pema for Talking about me. I was feeling
    so lonely with no one taking pot shots at other people
    with no evidence and simple jealousy and hatred. You want
    my opinion. Here it is:
    1. I believe in Rangzen and i will do anything
    in my power to help us reach that goal.
    2. Middleway has failed spectacularly.
    Finito.
    Come to Nov2nd global protest!!!

  104. Michal Synek | November 3rd, 2011 | 4:47 am

    Tashi delek to everybody!

    Yesterday, we have drawn contours of the bodies of all the monks and the nun who burned themselves in protest of the current situation in Tibet on the sidewalk of Vaclavske square in Prague, Czech Republic, EU.

    Please see photos on:

    http://zebravymnich.blogspot.com/2011/11/vzpominka-na-obeti-utlaku-v-tibetu.html

    The big statue in the background is saint Venceslau, the patron saint of the Czech Republic. Jan Palach, who burned himself to death in protest against Soviet occupation of our country, died 42 years ago in front of the big building /National Museum/ in the background of the first photo. Today, there is monument in his honour at the spot and our country is FREE /since 1989/! The attendance of our yesterday gathering was good, so:

    BHOD GYAL LO!

  105. tashi7 | November 3rd, 2011 | 12:27 pm

    tashi deleck to all
    May I request all participants to contribute one slogan to write for chalktibet…that would be helpful
    thanks

  106. MountainLakeMan | November 3rd, 2011 | 1:48 pm

    Michael Synek, Thank you for your support.

  107. Jamyang Norbu | November 3rd, 2011 | 3:57 pm

    Michael Synek and all Free Tibet supporters in the Czech Republic. Thanks for all your efforts to keep the flame of freedom burning. Jan Palach, Thupten Ngodup and the Tibetan monks and nuns who died for freedom will never be forgotten.

  108. Gang tuk | November 3rd, 2011 | 9:31 pm

    Thank you Michael and all the supporter in Czech for sharing our grievous moment. Czech Republic is also a nation who officialy recognize Tibet as an Independent country. you are the pure and true friend of ours.thank you again.

  109. Tenzin Jamyang | November 3rd, 2011 | 11:09 pm

    Stay in school and complete your education. That’s the best you can do.

    Don’t be an explosion, be a flame…….

  110. Dawa | November 4th, 2011 | 2:07 pm

    Thanks Christophe. I got there later than I wanted to but my friends did the Chalk Tibet in front of the consulate.
    This time the turn up was great too.

  111. Dokpa | November 4th, 2011 | 3:31 pm

    I agree with people who posted that awareness campaingn is useless based on past records. Its has made no difference what so ever, China has continued with its plans in Tibet as if nothing is in the way. Partly, this awareness campaign has gotten us to think that it is our job to make the world aware and its their job to do something about it. The next question begs to be asked is “what next?”

    I don’t have a situation. Solution must be a concesus. For consensus to happen, Tibetans youths must come together.

    I believe in the potential of Tibetan youths. There is courage, ideas, knowledge and patriotism floating around. We are just waiting for someone to provide the leadership and mobilisation.

    We can start by electing local community leaders with passion and courage to do something and provide that needed leadership. We should not elect leader who like to follow the tradition so to speak. Local leaders are very important.

    when you throw any object in a pond it will create its own ripple.

    We can’t let our patriotic people to think that they are alone in this struggle. Some walk alone for miles, some set themselves on fire. By god, I wish they did not die of despiration that the rest of us are useless, selfish bunch.

    Our action must be stratigised, longterm, and with clear objectives with participation from maximum Tibetans.

    Leave the UNO, G20 etc, I promise nothing will come out of them. Imagine, China has Veto power in UNO. Europe and US wants china to bail them out. Economy = Vote. Who does’nt get this ?

    Lets pay attention to each and every tibetan individual. Treat them with respect and with great potential. Then, there will be differences to our struggle.

    I am in 40s, lets make something happen before we leave this planet. lets get together.

    Dokpa

  112. Sheila | November 6th, 2011 | 5:22 pm

    A lot of people decrying (or perhaps being paid to decry) Tibetan Buddhism harp on the “male-dominated” thing. I know Buddhism like any other modern(izing) religion still has work to do in this area. However, if the story is accurate, 10,000 people have gathered to honor Palden Choetso, the nun who self-immolated last week at Tawu Nyitso. Obviously the people, and the monastic community, hold her (and/or her sacrifice) in as high esteem as that of the men and boys’ sacrifice.

  113. TSUNDRU | November 7th, 2011 | 12:45 pm

    This is a Man (Male) made ‘thing’.
    Forget Religion – every Society, Tribe, Commune wants a MALE heir. Correction – I believe ‘primitive Tibetan society’ has place for Female Heirs, Head of Household whatever you may call it.

  114. Sheila | November 9th, 2011 | 12:37 am

    Three brothers in Hebei self-immolated today to protest land expropriation. Is it possible they were following Tibetans’ lead in choosing this form of sacrifice?

  115. Rewalsar | November 10th, 2011 | 4:27 am

    The sadness that surrounds the atmosphere in the Tibetan world is further saddened when more of them began to go aflame not only inside their own land but also outside of it. Soon it may spread across our planet. One might soon began to witness a row of Tibetans going ablaze wherever they live, and what then the bystanders would be doing … just standby looking at one another and shrug their shoulders?

    Already, Tibetans are going aflame almost on a routine basis and the world is silent. Among those who are not silent are Beijing and Dharamsala, but they are doing nothing more than blaming each other of who is fuelling the flame; or Dharamsala asking Obama administration to do something.

    These incidences of people immolating themselves almost on a routine basis is now becoming far more a serious issue than just an act out of “desperation” or “to attract world’s attention”. It is becoming a social issue as urgent as famine in Somalia, or genocide in Rwanda, or suicide bombing in the lands prone to terrorists. It is no time to keep silent or to blame one another in an attempt to testify who is fitting to be blamed of. It is time to act, and act to stop this heroic but gruesome act. Stooping it of course does not mean to stop fighting for Tibet’s freedom, which will and must continue.

    It seems that Beijing and Dharamsala will never stop their rhetoric routine of blaming each other, and it seems that there is not much that would come out it to stop the ongoing lost of Tibetan people’s lives. Someone else must come up and act. A unit of the UNO which deals with social catastrophe (whatever its name is) must come forward and act. It must act immediately. First of all it must stop Tibetans from committing self-immolation, and then they must send a fact finding body to Tibet. This body must investigate how much truth is there in what Dharamsala and Beijing have been saying, or rather blaming each other. This investigation must be transparent and down to the earth.

  116. Rewalsar | November 10th, 2011 | 10:10 am

    … Atleast one man spoke out and that is the young Karmapa, the head of Kagyu sect of Tibetan Buddhism:

    “The situation is unbearably difficult, but in difficult situations we need greater courage and determination,”.

    It must be hoped that all the Heads of other sects of Tibetan Buddhism such as Gelug, Nyingma, Sakya and Bon follow the young Karmapa. Also there are Tibetan communities who follow religions other than Buddhism such as Christian, Muslim etc. It must be hoped that they also speak out following the young Karmapa. Likewise, it must also be hoped tha all groups of Tibetans who follow non-believer ideologies, such as humanism, Communism, positivism etc., also speak out following the young Karmapa.

  117. Dokpa | November 10th, 2011 | 1:16 pm

    To Tibetan Youths,

    Will something come out of it if we have political discussions at every local level ? who does not believe this will is true?

    Before we answer this question. Ask our selves, have we tried this ever ? As far as I am concerned we only followed.

    I am trying my best bring youths in my local area to engage in political discussion, and brain strom.

    We should come up with something.

    Bo Gaylo

    Dopka

  118. Dokpa | November 11th, 2011 | 10:31 am

    TIBET: Govt for the people, by the people and of the people.

    Guys, if we want to achieve this. We must put our heads together. We must make something happen.

    UNO, nothing is going to happen. Please check the current global reality if anyone is ignorant.

    We can do it. Don’t waste time on useless debate on line and feed your Narsicism. Plan for Action. Action is 100% in our control.

    We should, cry and plead all in the name of awareness and attention. As if our job is make the world aware and its the world’s job to find a solution. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Awareness is created by ACTION. Who needs an example ?

    Dokpa

  119. Jeff Bowe | November 16th, 2011 | 7:54 am

    On the subject…See Robert Barnett has been offering his troubling distortions again. More here: Doctoring The Facts on Burnings In Tibet http://wp.me/pt9UI-1A1

  120. NewgenerationTB | November 17th, 2011 | 2:23 am

    Jeff, Robie wants his holiday-cum-research in Tibet. He also accepted China’s occupation of Tibet as a FACT. I am surprised with his GIVEN SUPPOSITIONS…there are more…..I think it is time for Robbie Barnet of Colombia to join the Confucius Institute of Colombia instead of so called Associate professor of Modern Tibetan Studies….shame shame…..

    He will be in Lhasa soon…just keep an eye!

    NG

  121. Valerie | November 17th, 2011 | 4:03 am

    Apparently, a Han Chinese man (his name being Wang) attempted self-immolation on Tiananmen square. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/17/man-alight-tiananmen-square
    I hope he’ll be able to spread his motives for that move, that would be so important now.

  122. Chimey | November 17th, 2011 | 8:36 am

    Hello Mr. Jamyang Norbu lak,

    Thank you for all your posts, they are always thought-provoking and inspiring to me. I really admire your efforts to sustain a stead-fast insistence on a free tibet and respect you as a critical and conscious leader.

    With that said, I am starting on a research project soon regarding Transnational Tibet Activism and I thought it would be more than interesting and helpful for the direction of this project to get your input. So, what do you feel are some questions or issues (within the above topic or not, but definitely dealing with Tibet as the center of the discussion) that need to be explored and addressed through research. I hope to do something that will help me understand my people and the social and political cross-roads at which we stand as well as contribute towards a better understanding and vision within and outside of that community.

    It would be awesome to hear back from you :)

  123. Jeff Bowe | November 17th, 2011 | 10:36 am

    NewgenerationTB

    Absolutely! To think he started life as the back end of a theatrical horse, progressed to stock-cube commercials, dressed as a Chicken (Editor please note: fact as opposed to vilification) and has now reached the dizzying heights of repeating China’s distortions on Tibet. His stellar rise would not have been realized without the support of the Tibetan ‘NGO’ in Exile (formerly TGIE) and some have asked, if his career trajectory was aided by the British Foreign Office and possibly China’s Ministry of Dis-information?

    Described aptly as ‘barefoot experts’ by Jamyang Norbu, it’s time such informed commentators, who seem to specialize in a stealthy misrepresentation of Tibet’s cause, were removed from their positions of influence with mainstream media. Particularly when they so callously distort or conceal the political demands/actions of Tibetans who sacrifice themselves via self-immolation.

  124. daveno | November 21st, 2011 | 10:13 am

    No one really has a solution to Tibet issue.

    Am i wrong?

  125. tashi7 | November 22nd, 2011 | 6:53 pm

    wherever the problem is the solution lies there itself…Of course,there is solution to tibet’s issue.Impossible is find in the dictionary of fools …..Having said that millions of tibetans and supporters of truthful cause of tibetans are ever increasing in momentum….When Mao savage cultural genocide during his reign in tibet could not suppressed the spirits of tibetans,then the present hardliners can not and will not succeed in wiping the cause of tibet from this world.The movement of tibet is like perenial river which never dries up but keep on moving peacefull till it reaches the ocean(cease ethnic genocide in tibet).Our cause will go on and on.The chinese sisters and brothers living in remote china are not enjoying human rights like tibetans in tibet.Have of heard of recent self-immolation of chinese brother at tienamein square.Lets join hands and make china the most respected in the world in terms of human values.let china become a democratic govt. and stop imprisoning their own intellectuals who opposed the wrong policy of china govt. The day will come when china will be accountable to the world.In the meantime,tibetans in tibet are not sleeping and they have been sacrificing their precious lives eversince communist illegally colonised tibet.The reason we feel and the world feel that tibetans doing little for its freedom is NO FREEDOM OF PRESS in tibet under chinese hardliner leadership.If the chinese journalist risk their lives to print the reality in tibet the world will admire and know that how much tibetan doing,doing ,doing,………..

  126. tashi7 | November 22nd, 2011 | 7:01 pm

    chalktibet is brilliant idea…lets do more…..

  127. daveno | November 22nd, 2011 | 9:58 pm

    I am still correct.

  128. tashi7 | November 22nd, 2011 | 10:36 pm

    dave …..ignorance is bliss….what makes you think that ….give your reasons….

  129. daveno | November 23rd, 2011 | 8:35 am

    Otherwise the issue wouldn’t exist.

  130. tashi7 | November 23rd, 2011 | 1:53 pm

    its like glass is half empty or half full to me ….till you elaborate …..

  131. Rewalsar | November 24th, 2011 | 11:14 am

    Comments on “fire protest” that had recently appeared on BBC’s website are saddening. It seemed that those who made comments were more concerned about the effectiveness of the protest. Already, there seem to have a kind of fear that the message that had echoed from the falme that engulfed those innocent lives might vanished into deaf ears. Such a notion is in deed saddening. One is not suppose to expect anything whatsoever from those heroes. Their death itself is everything. Nothing more is to be expected from them.

  132. Dokpa | November 25th, 2011 | 4:29 pm

    Hi Daveno,

    Tibet issue is like a small pebble at the bottom of an ocean. When the ocean dries up you will still find the pebble, not affected by the weight and might of the ocean.

    Chinese regime is intoxicated. Nobody remains in this state forever. Those of us who got drunk knows this very well. Sometimes we a ashamed of our actions during that moment.

    We just need to be patient, tolerant and compassionate of those who are drunk.

    Dokpa

  133. daveno | November 27th, 2011 | 4:33 pm

    lets not speculate ! Can that pebble become a fire to dry up the ocean?

  134. Dokpa | November 29th, 2011 | 2:08 pm

    Daveno,

    I think, you are a concerned Tibetan.So, I like to clarify my point.

    First, where is the speculation in my remark ?
    Second, we don’t need to dry up the ocean. The Ocean will dry up by itself.

    China’s economy is a Sham.
    China’s Politics is a Sham.
    Corruption is the skeletal of china’s image.

    Tell me, which system based on lies survived through the time.

    We just need to wait for the time for China to fall, its inevitable. Well, it does take time. Its the most populas country in the world. It has the economy to match.

    Tibet has truth on its side. We are proud to be on this side. We don’t need to do anything, besides being ourselves.

    Regards
    Dokpa

  135. FranckLazare | November 29th, 2011 | 4:00 pm

    Is the Dalai Lama agreeing or condemning the immolations? That question should be asked. From a buddhist point of view, how is the termination of one’s own life be kosher? I’m no lama, but from what I have heard at teachings, that’s a no-no. The beatification of martyrdom bothers me greatly. It reminds me of the palestinian movement: it created a whole generation of brainwashed teen-age suicide bombers. How could that be kosher? So does anyone know what the Dalai Lama has to say about these immolations?

  136. daveno | November 30th, 2011 | 8:28 am

    Drokpo Dokpa,
    My reincarnation Daveno2 shall give a response in 2045.( BTW, China’s economy,politics and behaviour internally is not my business, although i feel for any unfortunate events and those are secondary forces subject to third party conditions).

  137. Sheila | November 30th, 2011 | 10:13 am

    It’s hard to condemn the self-immolations as merely misguided martyrdom. I think of the many cases where a parent purposely goes without food so the children will survive. It would be hard to call that misguided martyrdom, surely.

    If one really feels ones entire culture, religion, environment, family, are on the brink of extinction, and there’s this one last desperate hope of getting the world to help save it, can we really say these acts are anything but altruism?

  138. Sheila | November 30th, 2011 | 10:20 am

    Also, what is “self?” We say “self-immolation.” But if you feel there’s not just one self to worry about, but your whole family, or your whole culture, then the last resort of sacrificing one part of your “self” doesn’t seem much different than cutting of your own foot to prevent gangrene from killing the rest of your body.

    I do realize the Buddhist prohibition against suicide is pretty finite. I just wonder whether we can accurately and clearly label self-immolation suicide, when comparing it to other cases of self-sacrifice for others (starving to save your kids, drowning to rescue someone, etc.)

    Self-immolation is in fact less (or no more) a guarantee of death than some other acts which are acknowledged (I think) as altruism – stepping in front of a bullet for someone, etc.

  139. thenorbu | November 30th, 2011 | 1:42 pm

    Sacrifice is the proper term to describe the act (self-immolation is just one of the means to Sacrifice for others well being).

  140. Dokpa | November 30th, 2011 | 2:54 pm

    Chinese Regime has nothing to fear. They don’t care if their population is being diseased or get killed. “People are instruments of the State” Millions can loose life over almost nothing, at worse for the wrong reason. The Regime simply don’t care.

    Thats one of the main reason we Tibetans refrain from voilent acts. Our goal is to put sense in the thick selfish head of these stupid Regime.

    We have the most respect of the Chinese people who are intelligent, resourseful and dignified people.

    Its very unfortunate that this Regime of lies and brutality exit like black cloud over China.

    The day will come when this cloud will dry up. People of China and Tibet will life together, benefiting from each other’s culture. And, benefiting the world at large.

    Chinese and Tibet say “Enough of this stupidity”

    Dokpa

  141. FranckLazare | November 30th, 2011 | 3:19 pm

    Call it as you like, the end result is the same: young tibetans lives are lost. Absurdly, these sacrifices are performed in the name of a religious leader that cannot possibly support them on the basis of religion. Moreover, there is a cruel twist that the act of extinction correspond to the policy of the chinese oppressors, that is the extinction of tibetan identity. I do not see how these actions can bring any positive in the short or long term: only more suffering and loss.

  142. TSUNDRU | November 30th, 2011 | 3:51 pm

    for Frank Lazare:
    I’ve taken the liberty to copy & paste some paragraphs from an essay by a Dhondup Gyalpo . The full article was posted just today I believe @ http://phayul.com/
    (under the tab: OPINION )

    “Lest you might accuse me of glorifying self-immolation, I must point out that as far as His Holiness the Dalai Lama is concerned he has always stood against “self-immolation”. In a recent interview with BBC, His Holiness the Dalai Lama not only said that he doesn’t encourage Tibetans to set themselves on fire, but also strongly questioned the effectiveness of self-immolation as a form of protest against China.4 Leave aside the issue of self-immolation, His Holiness is against even hunger strikes as he views them as “violence against self”. Not only that, His Holiness terms even corruption as another form of violence and constantly speaks about the need for eliminating this social evil.5

    It is therefore interesting to note that the definition of Tibetan term for violence, tshe ba, includes not merely physical harm, but a whole host of others, including speech and thought aimed at hurting others. Thus, even “sweet words” can be violent when they intend harm, while “harsh and tough action” can be non-violent when its aim is another’s well-being.”

  143. TSUNDRU | November 30th, 2011 | 4:01 pm

    And I will add that It is NOT kosher to start questioning the motives; labeling & comparing their sacrifice to the example that you have given.

  144. thenorbu | November 30th, 2011 | 8:44 pm

    The differences in opinion is understandable.

    Those wearing the shoes and those looking at it.

  145. Sheila | December 1st, 2011 | 12:58 am

    “Absurdly, these sacrifices are performed in the name of a religious leader that cannot possibly support them on the basis of religion.”

    They’re not asking for his support from HHDL. They’re making their own decision for their people, and praising HHDL with their dying breath.

    The consequences, according to Buddhist doctrine, are to themselves, no one else. They don’t ask for HHDL’s pronouncements, because they fully know the consequences, and the consequences are horrible, both in this and subsequent lives. But that’s the sacrifice they made, knowing this.

    Catholic parents in the Nazi internment camps who purposely starved for their childrens’ sake also believed they were doing the only remaining thing possible, even though the Church bans suicide.

  146. thenorbu | December 1st, 2011 | 9:56 am

    “Moreover, there is a cruel twist that the act of extinction correspond to the policy of the chinese oppressors, that is the extinction of tibetan identity”.

    Those who sacrificed their precious lives are monks and nuns or spiritual companions.
    So the “extinction” does not apply here, as they are not in the mundane reproductive group like us.

  147. Dokpa | December 1st, 2011 | 12:33 pm

    Self immolation is the highest expression of non violence. The world recognizes it, Tibetans recognizes it, Chinese Regime recognizes it. That is why they are trying to stop it and hide it from the world. There is the guilt part.

    Tibetans all over the world came out for one reason only. Show unity and recognition of their sacrifices. We will always remembers them as martyrs.

    We must all remember that not one Chinese individual was hurt in our non violent struggle. We respect the lives of each an every human being. Human beings are too precious to be killed for any reason. A Tibetan might kill a Chinese in a fit of uncontrolled desperation, but then he would spend the rest of his live in guilt or commit suicide.

    The regime in China will take advantage of anything to help them stay in power. We must know this regime by now. No shame, no dignity, no humanity just steel cold and arrogant beast.

    I have always known, that dialogue with this regime will never work. For a dialogue to work the other side must be a human being first ! I highly doubt that. We must take this fact into consideration and deal with China accordingly. I am not suggesting violence.

    Regards
    Dokpa

  148. Chinese Engineer | December 1st, 2011 | 6:03 pm

    “We must all remember that not one Chinese individual was hurt in our non violent struggle. We respect the lives of each an every human being. Human beings are too precious to be killed for any reason. ”

    That’s why you burned a couple of Chinese to death back in 2008, right?

    ” The Regime simply don’t care. Thats one of the main reason we Tibetans refrain from voilent acts. ”

    FALSE. You can’t carry out coordinated and meaningful violence because you are INCAPABLE of the logistics and training required. Or did you forget about your 15 years of war?

    “A Tibetan might kill a Chinese in a fit of uncontrolled desperation, but then he would spend the rest of his live in guilt or commit suicide.”

    Let’s not beat around the bush here: Tibetans aren’t saints, and you’re full of shit.

  149. Sheila | December 1st, 2011 | 6:08 pm

    “A Tibetan might kill a Chinese in a fit of uncontrolled desperation, but then he would spend the rest of his live in guilt or commit suicide.”

    ‘Let’s not beat around the bush here: Tibetans aren’t saints, and you’re full of shit.’”

    And yet the fact remains that hardly any Chinese have been killed by Tibetans in 60 years, whereas Chinese have killed thousands of Tibetans.

  150. Chinese Engineer | December 1st, 2011 | 6:36 pm

    60 years? Are you also forgetting the war that you LOST?

  151. Dokpa | December 1st, 2011 | 9:06 pm

    Chinese Engineer,

    Tibetans are not Saints, we have what is called ” Human morals and values” No wonder you think these are extra human qualities reserved for saints and gods. If you leave your arrogance aside for a minute you will find these in you too.

    Typical communist, talking down on others with full of arrogance. “power comes from the barrel of a gun”. Wake up ! you are not in 50s. We are in 21st century. Countries are cooperating, not at each others throat with a knife. The rest of the world is understanding the value of cooperation, with new understanding of global problems.

    China, a great nation is high jacked by few brain washed, selfish and arrogant individuals. Neither they care about China’s image on global stage nor they understand the potential of a real human being. Extremely materialistic with no smell of true communist or socialist ideals. Just a selfish, opportunistic Cameleon.

    By the way, what are you, Communist? capitalist ? or a bad mutant with ill qualities of both.

    Engineer, I hope you are partially realist. I wanted to let you know “things change and evolve” I think your comments show as if my father is talking to a Chinese communist back in 1959. You are that much backward.

    Good day my friend
    Dokpa

  152. Tsering Dolker | December 2nd, 2011 | 1:56 am

    Tibetans are no saints but compared to chinese, we will have to be unfortunately labelled as such due to the moral depravity of the lot.

  153. daveno | December 2nd, 2011 | 8:58 am

    “Let’s not beat around the bush here: Tibetans aren’t saints, and you’re full of shit.”

    WTF Chairman! Tibetans are superior human beings in this world and we definitely dont go on blind faith…-remember millions of sparrows slaughtered to improve the farm yield episode by your Senior Chairman Mao.

  154. dolma | December 3rd, 2011 | 3:54 am

    mister chinese engineer.I am new here on this exciting page except your opinion and I can really understand their differences thought.
    For you to know i am teaching you the fact that those few chinese who were died in Lhasa uprising 2008 were massacred by your red troops who are disgiusely dressed in monk robes and amateur video of that was caught first handedly by a Japanese photographer.sorry You cannot hide your mess everytime.THe communist ruler is so barbaric that they don’t even care to kill their own people and creating such misunderstanding between the poor commoners of han chinese and Tibetans.Sorry even you are one who is deceived by them forever.

  155. FranckLazare | December 3rd, 2011 | 9:07 am

    For TSUNDRU. I am concerned that the glorification of the immolations will trigger more. That is what some palestinians groups did: they encouraged suicide bombings by ennobling the bombers and their actions. I think that’s wrong, and yes, not kosher.

  156. Dokpa | December 3rd, 2011 | 1:18 pm

    #154: I am glad you raised that point. Don’t let the Chinese regime get away with lies. They may be more powerful, who cares. We will not let them snuff off truth.

    #155: I truely understand your concerns. There is a very fine line. Tibetans in Tibet wants us to know about the torture and humiliation they are suffer on daily basis. But, then when we do something we tend to glorify their acts.

    Well, this is our strength and weakness. We have human emotions. Again, China will take advantage of that too. In history, war and occupation is accepted norm. But, to deal with China is so confusing and difficult.

    Chinese Regime:

    1. Refuse to accept truth
    2. Is not ashamed to tell lies
    3. Does not function according to law and order
    4. Does not have a reliable constitution to abide by.
    5. Does not care about international image.

    This Regime does not even love China. There is no indication at all.

    There are group on indiviudauls in power with selfish goals in mind. They know the regime will fall. There are focused only on ” How to make most of the time they have” They are blind to anything else.

    This is the true Tibet’s and a Global problem.

    Dokpa

  157. thenorbu | December 3rd, 2011 | 1:25 pm

    Every desperate measures stems out of necessities and not just due to love for pain.

  158. daveno | December 3rd, 2011 | 1:35 pm

    Excuses after excuses…still no one has a solution.

    Franck, Why is D-day important and honored?

  159. Dokpa | December 3rd, 2011 | 4:23 pm

    Daveno,

    What is your defination of Solution ?
    For something to be termed as solution, should it come before the result or after ?

    Were the allied force 100% sure before the onslaught on the beach that it will be a successful campaign?

    Don’t answer yes! I will be so mad at you. I will treat you like the member of current Chinese Regime.

    Dokpa

  160. Chinese Engineer | December 4th, 2011 | 1:15 am

    “For you to know i am teaching you the fact that those few chinese who were died in Lhasa uprising 2008 were massacred by your red troops who are disgiusely dressed in monk robes”

    No, they were BURNED TO DEATH on the second floors of stores set aflame by “peaceful” Tibetans you lying sack of shit.

    If you think the Chinese regime wanted to instigate mass civil disobedience ON THE EVE OF THE 2008 OLYMPICS, I suggest you put a bullet in your brain right now because obviously, you’re not utilizing it in any capacity.

  161. Dave | December 4th, 2011 | 2:12 am

    The young seamstresses were burned to death on the second floor of one shop, where they had gone to hide from the disorder outside. No one knew they were up there, and one of them was Tibetan. Their agonizing deaths were a terrible accident, unlike the agonizing deaths of the many Tibetans deliberately tortured to death by Chinese government personnel.

  162. Agu Tonpa | December 4th, 2011 | 2:16 am

    There is no question that we Tibetans are more peaceful and more compassionate than the red commies. After killing 1.5 million Tibetans and still continuing, who cares about burning few disease-ridden Chinese prostitutes. If we are not a peaceful and compassionate people, we would be burning more Chinese to death. After all, who can’t kill a Chinese? Break their glasses, that’s it.
    I can’t believe some of us wants to live with those barbarian who eats everything that moves. And most of the Chinese are like that of this Chinese Engineer: arrogant, robotic with no intelligent faculties who always regurgitates what their govt says. So, kill those pigs and put it in their wanton soup.

    Bottom Line: Chinese are angered by our protest. Since there are egotistical people, protest to embarrass the commies is what we should continue to do. For them, it is almost like shooting in their chest.

    We Tibetan should remember that Tibetans in Tibet are calling for unity and we must hear that message. In unison, we should all fight for justice, and in the process some commies has to burn, so be it.

    Bho Gyalo
    Free Tibet.

  163. Chinese Engineer | December 4th, 2011 | 2:44 am

    “After killing 1.5 million Tibetans and still continuing, who cares about burning few disease-ridden Chinese prostitutes. If we are not a peaceful and compassionate people, we would be burning more Chinese to death.”

    That’s very zen of you, you sackless piece of shit. I hope you grow some balls and try some violence civil disobedience in China real soon. Let’s see how tough you are then.

    Oh wait, I’m sorry, you are a fucking pussy living in the comfort and safety of a subsidized apartment somewhere outside the Chinese border while making worthless noise about a topic you have NEITHER THE FACULTY NOR THE FACTS to comprehend.

    Even I’m more Tibetan than you.

    By the way, seeing as how you use the English language quite often, I would like to bring to your meager attention the differences between “there”, “their”, and “they’re”.

  164. dolma | December 4th, 2011 | 6:08 am

    for 160,.first of all make yourself thorough about for how long the Lhasa uprising lasted in 2008″”"”"”"”WHO TOLD YOU THE FAKE INCIDENT OF DEATH OF FEW CHINESE POEPLE IN THE EVE OF BEIJING OLMYPIC? the date was wrong. MAY BE PROPAGATED IN CHINESE XY TV..Never trust those media coz they are even scare of telling the fact of a road traffic incident and telling truth about such happening is impossible.of course there is beautiful proverb in tibetan:”if you touch stool it will sting more”same as it is with that chinese guy who is engineered in destroying the truth.And you please stop insulting people unnessarily if you really want to use this platpform for something good.

  165. Dokpa | December 4th, 2011 | 12:43 pm

    Chinese Engineer

    Please re-read your postings and feel the sentiments.

    Arn’t you reconfirming ……

    Don’t be on the dark side.

    Dokpa

  166. daveno | December 4th, 2011 | 12:57 pm

    “That’s very zen of you, you sackless piece of shit. I hope you grow some balls and try some violence civil disobedience in China real soon. Let’s see how tough you are then.

    Oh wait, I’m sorry, you are a fucking pussy living in the comfort and safety of a subsidized apartment somewhere outside the Chinese border while making worthless noise about a topic you have NEITHER THE FACULTY NOR THE FACTS to comprehend.

    Even I’m more Tibetan than you.”

    You are trying really hard to be a tibetan.You should-that will benefit you.May be your penis could find a pussy here, which could not in your native land where pussy is hard to find unless you like those sub-standard prostitude or may be your mother could lend you hers…you junkhead!

  167. daveno | December 4th, 2011 | 1:12 pm

    Dokpa,

    Allied forces moves are non of my business.

    Solution is making the one that has the issue happy and that issue disappeared for them.

  168. TSUNDRU | December 4th, 2011 | 8:32 pm

    The Tibetan monks acted out of sheer desperation and despair. The self sacrifice of their precious lives was a CRY out to the world of their immediate unbearable situation and the larger plight of Tibet and its people. This was the only action that they sought best to take. There was no INTENTIONAL destruction of the ‘others’ lives, or property.
    All nations honor their fallen heroes – those that have died for the cause of their nations- US; Israel; India; the whole world.
    I’m sorry that this hurts your sensibilities; but now even Tibetans are coming out of their shells to give voice to suppressed emotions…high time!

    http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/sentenced-12022011130105.html

  169. TSUNDRU | December 4th, 2011 | 8:36 pm

    Posting # 168 was a reply to Frank Lazare.

    Check out the link to a recent update from Tibet.
    CCP policy in full battle gear rounding up Tibetan protestors like cattle.

  170. dolma | December 5th, 2011 | 8:16 am

    again for#155
    i can really understand your concern over those who are self immolated,but the nature of self immolation and what the palestenian suicide bombing by the jehadis or hammaz have done is completely different.you are diluting black and white together.Needless to say self immolation is a completely altrustic way of sacrificing one’s body in the burning flame,it is a self sacrifice and not self destruction.however a suicide bombing may kill everyone,those innocent around you and they are paid to do so.
    sorry,i am not encouring and inspiring people to do so but one must glorify the sacrifices who have done so far.No option..
    have to denounce them? NOOOOOOOOOO
    have to be MUTANt?NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    should consider it voilent>NOOOOOOOOOOO
    every one must realise WHY SELF IMMOLATION?
    WHY TO SUCH AN EXTEND?……..
    WHAT IS THE ROOT CAUSE?

  171. TSUNDRU | December 5th, 2011 | 1:11 pm

    Per #170 posting & others -
    That is why I say it is just NOT kosher to IDENTIFY (& compare) the recent Tibetan martyrs to some Palestinian suicide bombers.
    I think this is the 1st place I am hearing of such a comparison. I can understand where you’re coming from & your situation and empathy with the state of Israel. Just for a minute please try and ‘wear the shoes’ (#144) of these monks and ordinary citizens in Tibet.

  172. tsering dorjee | December 6th, 2011 | 4:27 am

    People who compare Self-immolation to suicide bombings are probably:
    a. really bad at comparison
    b. don’t understand the issue at all
    c. paid by the cccp
    d. over-zealous western buddhist who know feels like they are almost enlightened.
    e. All of the above

  173. FranckLazare | December 6th, 2011 | 4:33 pm

    Tsundru and Tsering Dorgee are distorting my comment. I was not comparing self immolation to suicide bombings. What I tried to say was that rather that glorify suicides, tibetan activists should make it clear that it’s not a practice they agree with. I have not seen one comment expressing that. In that sense, it made me think that tibetan activists who think it’s ok to commit suicide in the name of their fight make me think of palestinian leaders who think it’s ok to do suicide bombings.

  174. Dokpa | December 6th, 2011 | 4:51 pm

    #173

    Humiliation, indignity, marginalization are the main cause of Self-immolation. Only those who suffer these on daily basis will know.

    I hate Chinese, not for occupying Tibet. Not for killing thousands during war but from getting to know them over the years.

    Lies, shamelessness, bully and sheer arrogance and selfishness. Have no concept of respecting others in every sense. They think money is everything and gives them the liscence to do anything.

    The great Chinese civilization has stooped so low within the past 60 years or so.

    They say “Tibet is part of china” well, I will too ashamed to call myself a Chinese. I am better off a Tibetan refuggee. I am proud and I am happy. I will die a pure Tibetan with dignity intact.

    Many Chinese foreign students are so ashamed to call themselves chinese when they find out the reputation of china in the larger world, without the Censorship. And, thats a fact.

    Dokpa

  175. TSUNDRU | December 6th, 2011 | 5:05 pm

    Frank Lazare:
    As you may know – In (Tibetan) Buddhism we carry forth a vigorous prayer session of of 49 days immediately following the death of those departed souls. You might be mistaking the observance of ‘SHAY- GU’ done openly by Tibetans everywhere as ‘glorification of martyrs’.
    Tibetan Activists want to acknowledge the sacrifice of these monks on a political level. They want the world to know and SEE that these were REAL people. At the same time since these were members of the clergy; ‘SHAY-GU’ becomes even more prominent.

  176. daveno | December 6th, 2011 | 9:51 pm

    In the absence of direct/outright expression of encouragement or discouraging of an act of sacrifice.The judgement that comes thereafter is mainly hypothetical perception based on one’s state of understanding the situation.

  177. Dave | December 6th, 2011 | 11:18 pm

    Francklazare #173: An act at once so selfless, so courageous, and so desperate as self-immolation is really beyond “agreement” or “disagreement.” No one wants such tragedies to continue, but those who enact them must feel that there is nothing else left for them to do. The approval or disapproval of activists outside Tibet is irrelevant, unless we can offer them a more effective tactic.

  178. Chinese Engineer | December 7th, 2011 | 1:22 am

    “I hate Chinese, not for occupying Tibet. Not for killing thousands during war but from getting to know them over the years. ”

    You don’t know jack shit.

    And there is no dignity from being a fucking loser; the very fact you think otherwise is a pretty telling manifestation of the general uselessness of the exile population.

    If you think being the world’s foremost beggars is some sort of honor while China’s aggregate accomplishments in the last 60 years amount to nothing but shame, well, I can see why you say the things you say, because you are a moron.

  179. daveno | December 7th, 2011 | 9:43 am

    CE, What aggregate accomplishments after slaughtering 41 million of your own people? Cut the bullcrap!

  180. Dokpa | December 7th, 2011 | 9:19 pm

    Hi CE,

    Your comments are so ignorant and so stupid. First, I feel a desire to respond, but then I restrain my compulsion to do so.

    There is a Tibetan saying ” Its easier to debate with 1000 scholars than with one stupid person”

    I know China has millions of true objective scholars. And, I know the regime hunt them down and put them in prison or kill them. They are silenced by brute force. I will wait for those brave people to take over China and reclaim its former glory. Then, I would be willing to accept as a citizen of China if it serves a far greater purpose.

    The days are numbered for this regime to fall. Trust me. It will come in more than one ways. This is not a prediction. This is a fact.

    I will give you a clue. The economic disaster did not destroy the western world. But, it will destroy China and this regime. How and why ?? The regime knows it, that is why it is forced to lie on all issues to its people or to the out side world. Eg. Air pollution in Beijing. People in this city are breathing poisonous air. The govt tells people its a propaganda. The fact shows differently. Chinese mentality defies all laws and logic. It has some mileage out of money and ruthlessness. And, they see it crumbling all around them. I hate to see people suffer, but it seems it has to be that way.

    We are not stupid like you, you cannot make us behave like you by picking up arms and start killing people.

    When the regime falls, like the end of any bad regime, there will be lots of blaming and finger pointing.

    Dokpa

  181. Chinese Engineer | December 8th, 2011 | 9:48 am

    “Air pollution in Beijing. People in this city are breathing poisonous air. The govt tells people its a propaganda.”

    You’re a lying cunt. I was IN BEIJING from mid to late Nov (and Shanghai before that), and there was reporting ON TV about sub micron level air particles and how it can permeate lung membranes.

    “We are not stupid like you”

    No, you’re not like me, because YOU ARE STUPID. You essentially base your entire perspective of “right or wrong” on someone’s view on the Tibet issue, an issue HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE TO ONE’S EMOTIONS, not to mention historically ambiguous.

    Compound that with a poor education and a general lack of intelligence, and you become nothing but a talking pile of shit.

    If you want to talk about propaganda, look no farther than the garbage you hold as gospel.

  182. Dokpa | December 8th, 2011 | 4:07 pm

    Ch Eng,

    “You’re a lying cunt. I was IN BEIJING from mid to late Nov (and Shanghai before that), and there was reporting ON TV about sub micron level air particles and how it can permeate lung membranes.”

    You might be the only few brain washed chinese zoombies. Ask any sane chinese about your media. I wanted to say a lot, but let me sum up in two words “CORRUPT AND CENSORED” Its not even a secret any more. By the way who and why the hell would anyone talk on tv about “micro level air particle”. Its not even a news. what does it even mean any way. You are just making up and I am not surprised at all.

    Please google Beijing air quality. You thought I was lying about Beijing air quality just to attack you.

    Here is a new year resolution for you ” I accept and live by the truth whether I like it or not”

    Dokpa

  183. MountainLakeMan | December 8th, 2011 | 4:30 pm

    Chinese engineer,you know that its your own chinese people who have said that chinese people are becoming soul-less. all you care about is money. yes, you work hard for it but now you’ve been stripped of humanity. after enjoying 30 years of rapid development the society is now rotten and immoral . dont take my word for it. your own people have commented after that incident where a 2 year old was run over not once, but twice. And 18 heart less passers- by walked past the toddler lying on the street.
    At one time, in the distant past, there was a spark of decency in the chinese heritage, lost since 1947, or therabouts.

  184. Chinese Engineer | December 8th, 2011 | 5:00 pm

    “Its not even a news. what does it even mean any way. ”

    Like I said, poorly educated and not a shred of intelligence.

    A micron, aka micrometer, is a unit of length. Sub micron air particles are suspended particulates in the air which have dimensions that are less than one micron. (Basically, all particles below 3 micron in diameter are very hazardous)

    People talk about it on TV because, well, sub/low micron particles are pretty bad for your health.

    Which brings me to my original point: Beijing’s horrible air quality is WIDELY DISCUSSED in China, even amongst official channels. In fact, Beijing’ API/AQI is published daily (including by the US embassy and widely read by Beijing residents, no less).

    You can argue that Beijing’s API/AQI measurement is too lax, but you CANNOT deny the fact that pretty much ALL Beijing residents understands that their air quality is atrocious, and that the government is trying to improve air quality.

    This leads me to my original point: you’re a fucking retard who doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.

    I have a new years resolution for you: “Shut The Fuck Up”.

  185. Chinese Engineer | December 8th, 2011 | 5:23 pm

    mountainlakeman,

    My people? Not exactly. I am a US citizen and have lived the majority of my life in the States. I was, however, born and brought up in China, so I have a rather unique perspective on thing.

    There is a general lack of social responsibility in China. And there is certainly discontent over it. Besides the unfortunate incident of the child being ran over twice, there is the recent high speed train crash. CCTV even commented that China’s GDP figures are “blood soaked”, meaning human lives are blatantly disregarded in pursuit of growth. There are other cases, such as the melamine milk scandal.

    However, your comment make you sound like a bleed heart liberal fucktard, which undoubtedly you are.

    “At one time, in the distant past, there was a spark of decency in the chinese heritage, lost since 1947, or therabouts.”

    1947? I wonder how you pulled that number out of your ass? Even in the late 80′s and early 90′s, when the vast majority of the Shanghai urban population were still equally poor, you would not see this. Poverty was a great humanizer.

    “there was a spark of decency in the chinese heritage”

    A “spark” of decency? Are you implying that the Chinese are less decent than, say, sub saharan Africans or any other major ethnic group?

    Either way, I can catch that disgusting holier than thou moral high horse drift from your direction, and here is what I have to say to you: “Fuck You and Your Mother In The Ass With a Big Black Dildo”.

  186. daveno | December 8th, 2011 | 9:11 pm

    Chinese are generally compassionate and well behaved except for few the like of CE.

  187. Dokpa | December 8th, 2011 | 10:39 pm

    Dear CE,

    The point was not the size of particles, but miss information that is being spread to give people are false sense of hope. And this misinformation permeates everywhere and everyday. Its so part of this regime, they don’t even realize they are speaking false. You have turned telling lie into an Art. So, don’t try to deviate from the real argument.

    By the way you misread my statement ” what the hell it means anyway”. I am a science student, educated in refugee schools India. I know what micron is” You did not understand the suggested meaning of my statement.

    Here are some u-tube clips for you and everyone to see.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dchuqRbCtoY&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=12llTOryD30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgkKT05AV-8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K9F8_EoorA&feature=related

    My reaction to all these utube. Oh yes, China has its own way. This is a getaway line for anything including their inability to treat human being as human.

    My resolution for you once more ” Accept truth, don’t give excuses all the time” Even your own people are ashamed of your money performances on world stage.

    Dokpa

  188. dolma | December 9th, 2011 | 6:59 am

    My people? Not exactly. I am a US citizen and have lived the majority of my life in the States. I was, however, born and brought up in China, so I have a rather unique perspective on thing.

    CE,the statemet is very clear that deep down in your heart,you simply unintentionally get hurt when someone says ”YOUR PEOPLE” that means YOU ARE GUILTY OF YOUR SPEECH AND ACTION and YOU COWARD, DON’T WANT TO CARRY THAT BIG RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE HUMILIATION THAT YOUR COUNTRY HAS CAUSED ON YOUR SHOULDER…DON’T BE ESCAPIST”’AND SELFISH.
    you don’t worry…we won’t be able to trace you personally,what your citizenship status is.ok?.

  189. Chinese Engineer | December 9th, 2011 | 8:02 am

    Dokpa

    Your links do not contradict ANYTHING I have said. What part of lax measurement do you not understand? If anything, the clips should have demonstrated to your dumb ass that the Beijing municipal government is quite pliant to public pressure.

    Thanks for wasting 15 minutes of my time. Also, enjoy your lack of reading comprehending and intellectual honesty.

    Dolma

    You’re a stupid cunt. The fact that you can extrapolate that garbage from what I wrote is a telling indication of your astonishing lack of common sense and intelligence.

    Enjoy your lifelong stupidity.

  190. TSUNDRU | December 9th, 2011 | 11:24 am

    Notice how charmingly CE has started to sign off each time he has his say. Must be the AIR he breathed while in Beijing recently. CE you’ve started to REGRESS.

  191. Chinese Engineer | December 9th, 2011 | 12:13 pm

    Civility is reserved for those who have two braincells to rub together.

  192. TSUNDRU | December 9th, 2011 | 12:37 pm

    oh boy! – Your’re really regressing to high-school – nay; middle school level.
    Have a fabulous weekend & FELIZ NAVIDAD!

  193. Dave | December 9th, 2011 | 1:35 pm

    @#191: “Civility is reserved for those who have two braincells to rub together.” So, CE, that would explain a lot about your demeanor then, I guess.

    (I try to avoid the childish exchanges of insults but couldn’t resist this one; sorry, folks.)

  194. Dokpa | December 9th, 2011 | 7:29 pm

    Hi Guys !

    CE uttered a taboo word ” honesty ” in comment #189. In the context, the word is loaded with its original meaning.

    I am afraid, now he can’t go to China.

    CE, lucky you are in US. You will have a lot healthier lungs too.

    Dokpa

  195. dolma | December 10th, 2011 | 3:17 am

    CE,
    YOu moron gigolo..
    i can trully understand your desperation to earn that 4 yaun per post as you mentioned…
    Better go and get yourself earned in your ORIGINAL PROFESSION OF BEING A GIGOLO,that would pay you better.Though Chinese people have the best surviving skills but YOU AR NOT…

  196. dolma | December 10th, 2011 | 3:18 am

    CE,
    YOu moron gigoloooooooooo..
    i can trully understand your desperation to earn that 4 yaun per post as you mentioned…
    Better go and get yourself earned in your ORIGINAL PROFESSION OF BEING A GIGOLOooooooo,that would pay you better.Though Chinese people have the best surviving skills but YOU AR NOT…

  197. Chinese Engineer | December 10th, 2011 | 11:47 am

    Dolma, even your insults read like bad lines from a broken comedy.

    You really are quite stupid (no surprise there).

  198. Dokpa | December 13th, 2011 | 2:13 pm

    HI CE,

    Its useless debate with Chinese. If they ever come to the table at all, it is only to push their agenda and not to discuss or to find a solution.

    By the way, on air pollution: Facts

    >>Larger pollutants particles are not harmfull to human health as their can be trapped in upper respiratory tracts.

    >>Smaller particles (not monitored by environment Beijing) are harmful to human health as evidenced by so many deaths and see pictures of people with mask.

    whats the point of having a air monitoring system if you are not going to monitor threats to human health ? I know China knows these facts. The air monitoring system is not at fault but you stupid mind is at fault.

    “Repeat a lie 1000 times and it will appear as truth” do you remember this slogan?

    Old habits die hard. But, do give up. Take baby steps. One day you can see truth as truth. Facts as facts.

    Dokpa

  199. Chinese Engineer | December 13th, 2011 | 4:00 pm

    dopka you are one illiterate motherfucker.

    Get off your lazy ass, look up what PM2.5 is, go reread post #181 and #184. Then take a hammer and repeatedly apply it forcefully to your face until the very simple concept of LAX MEASUREMENT IS HAMMERED DIRECTLY INTO YOUR USELESS BRAIN.

    That is all.

  200. Dopka | December 14th, 2011 | 10:10 am

    Hi CE,

    Lax measurement does not mean ” No measurement “. Lax measurement is just an excuse, don’t bull me. I am not in Chinese jail, don’t try those bully.

    Lets look at the whole Chinese (Regime) attitute in any issues. Do you see any “LAX” ?? Grow some back bone, please for your own sake.

    I am so glad I am not Chinese. Its better to be a beggar on the street of India than be a Chinese. I will be in control of by dignity.

    Dokpa

  201. Chinese Engineer | December 14th, 2011 | 6:50 pm

    You’re too stupid to be bothered.

    Anyway, want to be a beggar in India? Good, stay there. We won’t have a problem them (and one less moron to worry about).

  202. Dokpa | December 15th, 2011 | 11:50 am

    CE,

    You really can’t extract implied meaning even though its pretty direct.

    In Buddhism it is called Deductive reasoning.

    ” (and one less moron to worry about)” NOT TRUE.

    FACT: You will have more and more smart and intellectual Tibetans to deal with.

    FACT: Since 1960, you were only dealing with Tibet run by individuals with minimal modern education. YOU COULD NOT EVEN HANDLE THAT. Now you face a different group of Tibetans SMART, DIPLOMATIC AND DETERMINED.

    Now you can not handle us. You can’t bully us. You can’t twist our history and lie to the world. GET THAT !

    Dokpa

  203. dorji | December 17th, 2011 | 12:36 pm

    the only engineering “chinese engineer” does is copy, re-design and re-packs “made in china” lies and provocation. like all chinese products.
    Like all chinese retarded nationalists, his whole “argumentation” is based on denial of all moral values, among which, justice. the only thing they understand is dog-like social behavior (some say u are what u eat rite?). pity japan didnt finish the work. (A work they chingies fully understand even as victims since it s the law of power rite).fuck you and ur motherfucking mama.

  204. dorji | December 17th, 2011 | 12:49 pm

    today s china s philosophy and politics is infused with only one principle: machiavelism. Only domination-dominated is understood and used for internal and foreign relationship. When all other countries and past powers have evolved and injected other goals such as moral progress, china is bringing the earth to dark times again. Aliens visiting the earth would prolly laser beam china to eradicate the cancer. Or maybe a few nuclear heads from other countries will do. Or last alternative, china accept to evolve from dog to modern human…?
    What s the best alternative chinese cockroach?(sorry..patent breaching “engineer”)

  205. dorji | December 17th, 2011 | 12:59 pm

    what understanding and exchange do u expect from ppl who steal each other ‘s children to enslave them (200 000 children a year)? they predate on each other already since their beginning. Like cockroaches. they are not wired with compassion. The opposite of compassion is, by the way, called psychopath.

  206. Tibetan Engineer | December 17th, 2011 | 11:14 pm

    PhunDa Aku Dokpa la,
    I have been applauding you all the way and this time @ #202 I am whisteling and cheering loud from behind saying, YEAAAA YEAAAA you nailed it, you nailed that chink. I am very proud of my brother Dokpa.
    In fact, it is fun to watch this chink keep coming back to our blog just to get angry all the time. Does he has some kind of addiction on anger? HA HA HA, is there such thing, ANGER ADDICTION? You never know with these chinks. Their weird brain works funny way. Wonder if it is all the Bhu-sing that they eat and f***ed up all the chemical in their brain. Or, Maybe the Mao is the one that should be to blame.

  207. Chinese Engineer | December 18th, 2011 | 3:24 pm

    Dopka + TE, carry on with your circle jerk.

    I have a special message for Dorji:

    My rather vocal criticism against members of this blog is, for all its vitriol, focused. I do not throw condescending labels at the entire Tibetan ethnicity; my education and intelligence does not permit me to commit such travesties, nor is it productive in the slightest.

    Which brings me to your three most recent posts. I have no problems if you were to commit ad hominem against me; I have said repeatedly that one should be able to take as much as one gives. However, I do have a problem when you color all 1.3+ billion Chinese with such unflattering, not to mention moronic and false comments.

    Where exactly is YOUR compassion when you describe an entire people as cockroaches? Or did you mistake compassion for hypocrisy?

  208. dorji | December 18th, 2011 | 5:46 pm

    hey patent breacher, it s me Dorji.
    i thought you d figure out who my attacks/descriptions were aimed at without me mentionning them in each sentence: chinese nationalists/ccp supporters. I actually have chinese friends. Those who are intelligent enough to see how the ccp is a criminal government. Those who acknowledge the truth: that this government is like the warlords of the past, ruling with repression and corruption. Abusing the weaks. Coinsidering its own people like..cockraoches. What lies did i make? that fujian is the center of child trade in hundred of thousands? that death penalties are scheduled according to organ customers transplantations? That the same unlawful agressions u got from Japan china is doing in Tibet and xinjiang? that your government lie about casualties in Tibet and statistics in Tibet like the number of casualties in tian an men (23 death..hum hum).
    You see, your patriotism is misled. You should praise the good in your culture (kong qu, lao tzeu etc). Not ruthless greedy bastards like CCP officials. be fucking real, if you want to protect your people, it s not by protecting ccp you ll reach ur goal.

  209. Chinese Engineer | December 18th, 2011 | 6:16 pm

    “pity japan didnt finish the work. ”

    “Aliens visiting the earth would prolly laser beam china to eradicate the cancer. Or maybe a few nuclear heads from other countries will do. ”

    “Or last alternative, china accept to evolve from dog to modern human…?”

    “what understanding and exchange do u expect from ppl who steal each other ‘s children to enslave them (200 000 children a year)? they predate on each other already since their beginning. Like cockroaches.”

    Seems pretty fucking clear to me what you were ranting at: the ENTIRE CHINESE CIVILIZATION.

    Listen you sackless fuck, you can misquote statistics (hundreds of thousands my ass. You have no fucking clue about the amount of logistics required), lie (show me a document on which country recognized Tibet. Oh wait, even the SIMLA ACCORD didn’t recognize you.), and spew shit (the scope of Chinese suffering during the sino-jap war is a few orders of magnitudes greater than whatever misfortune that befell Tibet), but in the end, you’re just a dumb fuck. A powerless one at that (count your blessings).

    I hope you realize the futility of your misdirected anger. But who am I kidding? You’re a fucktard, and even if reality hit you in the face, you wouldn’t recognize it.

    You want to hate the Chinese, fine. You want to wish for a Chinese genocide, ok. But at least have the balls to say it. Don’t spew your shit, then a day later try to cover it all up with your fake ass holier-than-thou-oh-I-was-only-talking-about-you garbage. Don’t insult my intelligence by pretending you don’t understand the lasting implications of nuclear war.

    So, are you going to retract your little stupidity induced episode of hate mongering? Or will you remain the sackless cunt that you are.

  210. Dokpa | December 18th, 2011 | 10:48 pm

    CE,

    I will tell you really clearly. All civilized, decent and human society does not like way the China is now. So, its not just Tibetans. The only country who like China are Pakistan, Iran, North Korea.

    People from around the world immigrate to US and Canada. Chinese people risk their lives to come to these countries. They have no problem calling themselves Americans or Canadian. Do you know Why? Everyone knows China is a rich country but do you see anyone flocking to China ? This shows that there is something wrong with China. Nobody wants to end up in a SOUP or in JAIL.

    I will have no problem calling China my country. But, right now its too scary and too ashamed. I pray for that day to come when people will immigrate to China and call it a home.

    Dokpa

  211. Tibetan engineer | December 18th, 2011 | 11:00 pm

    To The Chink,

    Dorje has clearly mention in # 203, “ like all Chinese retard nationalist” he didn’t say “all the Chinese people”. Your accusation is very typical as of your bosses in Beijing too.
    If all our comment sounds vitriol to you, then there might be a reason behind it. Have you thought of what might be the reason? Even the dog doesn’t bark with no reason.
    You do not throw condescending labels to entire Tibetans, but you do to the members of this blog.(it is your word) So, when members fire you back sharply, it was vitriolic attack and committing ad hominem to you? You shot your own feet, brother.. Ha Ha
    Speaking of were exactly is our compassion? My friend, it is very well intact with us and it is still running like a well oiled machine all over the world. If your uncle Mao is still alive, he must be regretting like hell.

  212. Dorji | December 19th, 2011 | 3:20 am

    Ok Patent Breacher. You know what it is called when one exagerate a lot in a cynical way: a sarcasm (oh the irony of whining about japanese agression but doing the same RIGHT AFTER). Or when this cynism is done in harmful way: it can be called a ccp policy.
    You talk about different order of magnitude between japanese actions and chinese ones? in what way? it s all relative to the damage inflicted to the victim group. ccp s invasion resulted in between 500k and 1,1 million tibetan death out of round 6 millions (please dont bust balls about numbers…lets say the figures have an accuracy window of 300k..). That s 10-15% of the total tibetan population KILLED.
    Now did Japan kill 15% of chinese population? not even 10 nuclear heads can do that, since you guys reproduced like..er..cockroaches the last 2000 years.
    Now you dlike to think about urself as as very rational logical person, and talk about stastistics regarding population growth since the 60s, and the sterilizations, and all genocide practices. Well my insect friend, you can digress all you will, but as long as you deduce from wrong figures, you are just being a BS megaphone. The starting demographic figures are wrong. The dismantlemant of Tibet in new administrative entities also helped fukcing up the figures. It s like all science mate: if the prerequisites are wrong then you just go in the wrong direction.
    But tell me, do you honestly believe in CCP figures and statistics in sensitive issues? u didnt acknowledge the following: how about 23 death in Tian an Men 89′ according to CCP?

  213. Dorji | December 19th, 2011 | 4:59 am

    to give you a reminder of what a scientifical mind would do (not an enraged blinded “nationalist” like you).
    CCP is known to repreatedly to Lie, Denie, and minimize all the crimes and casualties it has done all the time. Be it it murdering its own people or it s invaded neighbors (figures and facts of cultural revolution, of “great leap forward”, of Tibetan invasion, tian an men, of Falun gong mass murder, and so on and so forth..).
    Then, according to a simple trilogism, CCP is all BUT a reliable source of information in “sensitive” issues, such as its legacy. In fact it s probably the worst source of fact and information on these topics.
    Hence using ccp “statistics” and marketing papers about its policies is NOT a reliable, and even often totally misleading source of information from which to derive analysis and conclusions.

    patent breacher, please go back to the basics of logic..before claiming your brain has more useful neurones than the number of ccp victims.
    Why don t you spend 10 years digging human shit in a chinese laogai so you can smell and roll yourself in the reality you praise so much.

  214. Dorji | December 19th, 2011 | 6:22 am

    and since i m an intellectually honest person: i mistyped the number of children kidnapped and sold each year in china with one case. i meant 20 000. But re checking some external sources the estimates are 30 to 60 000. Nice f..g place and “civilisation” to raise children. Hey, i figure u aint got some urself. How about injecting a GPS chip in your potential sad offsprings? I insist: mainland chingies are predating on each other. Look at how a few of ur kind enslaves the new immigrants in the west (or in china of course), chained to a sewing machine for a bowl of rice a day while the “boss” drives a porsche.. What civilisation are u talking about?? it got eradicated with Mao didnt it? And now the only culture is money aint it? Taiwan has more chinese culture than mainland ccp.
    for your information there are other economical models that are sustainable for tibetans: i bet Bhutanese (tibetan civilization) prefer to stay their way than adopting chinese “civilization”.

  215. Chinese Engineer | December 19th, 2011 | 9:26 am

    Please, carry on with being a sackless cunt.

  216. Dorji | December 19th, 2011 | 9:41 am

    finally you shut up.

  217. Tibetan engineer | December 19th, 2011 | 7:41 pm

    Folks here , long and loud applaud for Dorje.

    Friendo chink, do you feel the thrash now? Sharp as well-tempered samurai sword, feel it my friend so you will learn, next time not to come with prejudgment attitude and display your jingoism. Dorji and aku Dokpa are just two among many thousands, well educated, young and savvy, patriot and proud Tibetan citizen of King SongTsen.

  218. dorji | December 20th, 2011 | 1:14 pm

    thanks Tibetan Engineer brother. Although i hold no merit. IT is very easy to debate when you have facts, the moral and the truth on your side as we do and as the whole world knows (but can t act in a military way). Now, to be more constructive, i cannot help but feel and reflect about New Generation Tibetan ‘s posts.
    I understand what he says. What he says is exiled tibetans should think about those who bear the cost of all surrounding politics. They are the ones who risk their lives right now. They have to deal with torture and repression. They have a different reality. And i am wondering what THEY can do to get free from chinks oppression. The 14th of december events with our brthers and sisters getting ambushed in the railroad engineering school by thousands of han make me realize how fucked up the situation is. mainland chinese hate tibetans and we give them the gift back. Now how to do for them to climb the ladder and free themselves from oppression practically? tibetans are seen there as ungrateful barbarians by brainwashed chinks. they know about a handful chinese fire victims in a burned down shop in Lhasa. They have no idea of the million who died and tens of thousands rotting in jail. question is, how can we help THEM?

  219. dorji | December 20th, 2011 | 1:27 pm

    here is my idea of the moment. We all go back. We propose a deal to chinese government. We keep our foreign passports. And we go back to build our country. Within the realm of autonomy (hong kong like).

  220. dorji | December 20th, 2011 | 1:33 pm

    with a local parliament ruling on local laws/policies, like in scotland. and leaving the uranium, the lithium etc to the chinks. well i m no geniusm, basically what HH proposed. but we keep our passports so we know the whole world is engaged as to human rights.
    They keep what s important to them. we get what s important to us. And they finally can get their passport to being considered as modern humans.

  221. Tibetan engineer | December 21st, 2011 | 2:03 am

    Dear Dorji la & all Phunda Tso,

    I can’t think of any immediate solution or remedy and I don’t think there is any. The fight that we fight for is for ones people and nation and it is going to be long fight. But, when you look back fifty years, overall we did fairly well and keeping up with this momentum is the answer for now. I believe winds of Rangzen are blowing towards right direction. On the other hand I like to see that as a process of human evolution and since the truth is on our side I have no delusions on survival of Tibetan civilization. Shit happens to many civilizations in this earth and they survive and I am sure we will do the same. Having said that, I don’t mean we just sit on our ass and wait. Here is some of my thoughts and act that I will share with you. I am growing my hair for quite some time so I can braded with red tapshu like my father use to do. I wear Tibetan stylish shirts as much as I can. I wanted to look more as a Tibetan. I resent speaking Nepali and English with Tibetans though I am fluent with the language. I participate any Tibetan traditional and culture event as much as possible (don’t mean concert of Raju lama and those crap) not interested.
    Any protest, candle vigil, donation you name it. It may not look effective but I see these as flapping wings of a butterfly that create tornado.
    My stands are clear if I may shear with you. I don’t expect any sincere support from any nation’s governments as you know it’s not going to happen. And I am not going to waste my time proving rangzen base on historical document or any treaty what so ever. It may sound silly or stupid in this world of nation’s politics and UN constitution what so ever. I don’t care about those. Say whatever they want. But, I want to make this clear to every human being in this earth.
    I AM A TIBETAN, NOT CHINESE. EVERY SINGLE CELL IN MY BODY SAYS I AM TIBETAN. I HAVE MY OWN LANGUAGE, MY OWN CULTURE, RELIGION AND A HISTORY. THE LAND BESIDE THE HIMALAY, THE ROOF TOP OF THE WORLD BELONGS TO US TIBETAN, NOT CHINESE. AND WE ARE GOING TO GET IT, AND IF IT TAKES BUTTERFLY TO FLAP IT WINGS, SO BE IT.

    Event at railroad engineer school was outrageous. I wish I was there with Kalashnikov, I swear to my mother I won’t hesitate and I m sure many here will not. Those roaches are making big mistake.

  222. dorji | December 22nd, 2011 | 5:10 pm

    TB, I think we need to do more than butterfly stuffs. I think we need to go back. I don t see any other outcome or solution. The country bleeding from tibetans so that in 100 years there are none left? Time is playing for chinks, not for us. We need to re-invest the place. Inject fresh blood and business where, we, exiled, can bring our bricks to the consruction. We have skills and knowledge that can enrich the country. The fight is about that right now. If we go back, build or transfer businesses and employ OUR people, we have a chance.

  223. dorji | December 22nd, 2011 | 5:23 pm

    life in India, Nepal, Usa or Europe is meaningless compared to what we have ahead of us in Tibet, Phayul, the land of our fathers. I dont see any meaning in this materialistic society, and life is so short. My love and passion for our culture is so profound..it just feels like my job as engineer in the west is a queue line to my, our, real purpose in life. living with the elements, the wind and the stars of tibetan sky. A humble home but with dignity, and all what our parents had.
    I need to go there and build. i dont know about you.

  224. Dokpa | December 22nd, 2011 | 6:39 pm

    Dear Phunta Dorjii and T. Engineer,

    To create any Ripple on the Pond, the surface of the pond must be distrubed. There is no other ways !!! I am sure there will be call for action in the coming year. I am very happy and impressed with the feeling you have expressed in your postings. We must talk more to our people and gather the clouds for action.

    Dokpa

  225. mano | January 3rd, 2012 | 4:17 pm

    all right guy’s first of all hai to my fellow tibetian brother’s and sister’s,as i am an indian.
    today tibet situation is getting worse due to 2 main reason’s 1:the age factor of dalai lama.
    2:the growing chinese economy.(well atleast the communist party economy, if not for the common backward class chinese, who r suffering).

    communist party will never listen to any solution put forth by tibet or by the world,as they won’t even listen to their own people of china.and for dalai lama to think that they will grant tibet with semi autonomy(middle path)is a dream.so it is upto the tibetian youth to come forward and fight.but the million dollar question is how do we fight a country that has a permanent membership in U.N security council with veto power.which does not care for hunger strikes and most of the time does human rites violation.

    the truth is we have only one hope that is through an arms struggle,an guriella warfare.i do accept that communist party of china has a large army and modern weapons.but ultimately as the famous che guevara says battles are not decided by the amount of men in an army ,but it is decided by the men’s will to put their life to the edge and fight for what they believe in.we dont need to put the whole house on fire ,all we need to do is ignite a spark that will spread as a wild fire and ultimately bring down the communist party of china and make both china and tibet a free and democratic countries,which has freedom of press,freedom of speech and agrarian reforms.china spends more money for it’s internal security budget than its external.and the recent case where in a province (i dont remember the name)i read in times of india that the communist party officals were thrown out by the people of the provice in china.therefore china is already boiling with rage over the communist party.our greatest ally in this war could be the people of china who are urging for democracy.but as gandhi say’s be the change u want to see in the world,tibetian youth has to put thier national identity on top of their religious identity and fight against the communist party of china and not the chinese people who to be frank are misguided,misinformed and propaganda driven which is not thier fault.
    i want to ask just one question how many of you agree in arm’s struggle with chinese communist party(and not the people of china).plzz reply.

  226. Dorji | January 7th, 2012 | 11:00 am

    Hey Mano,
    old question u raise. Maybe u should ask Kousho Jamyangla his opinion as he did fought in the guerilla.
    Nobody has a crystal ball and not me either, so the outcomes of our actions cannot be sure. Here is my opinion however.
    Fighting physically will bring only death. On our side. For every chinese soldier killed there are one thousand behind. The reaction of china will be total destruction of all tibetans.Why? because that is the perfect excuse they need and await to eliminate tibetans. Perfect. Plus as tibetans kill chinese the tibetans will lose the sympathy capital from the west and be exagerately portrayed as terrorists by cpp. manipulation of events and facts will be very easy.
    Plus honestly, logistically it is impossible. and we almost all know it.
    Now, i believe as said earlier that the fight is somewhere else. The ultimate goal is survival as ethnic and cultural group. For that there is only 2 ways: financial independence, and intra community marriage.

  227. dorji | January 8th, 2012 | 10:11 am

    like the jews. 2000 years after their forced exodus, they are still there and strong. based on those 2 “methods”.

  228. dorji | January 8th, 2012 | 10:15 am

    sorry, 3500 years after. and although they faced the biggest challenges. I think we need to meditate on their success and the roots/reasons for it. Short term display of temper and force can be only a final song before disappearing. What happened to Chechenya?

  229. Chinese Engineer | January 8th, 2012 | 1:20 pm

    I chuckle whenever some ill informed (read, retarded) Indian regurgitate soundbites from the China bashing collective. Look in the mirror once in a while buddy, or do you not know who the Naxalites are? And if you are interested in human “rites” violation, look no further than Kashmir.

    Of course I get even more giddy when said retard, who has no military experience nor any understanding of how wars are fought, go about preaching the virtues of an armed struggle.

    Here’s what I have to say to that: bitch get real.

    As for you, dorji, let me correct you on some of your rampant misconceptions.

    CCP does not want to eliminate all Tibetans. And it certainly does not hope for open conflict. Why? Because that’s too much trouble. If you were to take all the direct Chinese investment into Tibet and translate them into internal security funding, I guarantee you Tibet would be locked down tighter than the Israeli border. But CCP doesn’t want to do that. They would rather raise the standard of living of the average Tibetan so that the population is content enough to not cause trouble once in a while.

    Currently, the biggest problem for a Tibetan solution isn’t the CCP, but the Chinese population itself. To be more precise, it’s CCP’s fear of a overly negative backlash from the Chinese public if a perceived loss of sovereignty were to be observed. I am loath to generalize any population, but I really have to say that my generation, and the one before mine, have a very rigid definition of where the Chinese borders begins, and where it ends. In fact, go ask anyone in China, or any 0th/1st gen Chinese immigrant in America whether Tibet is a part of China, and nine times out of ten, they would answer yes.

    As you can see, CCP is caught in an interesting situation. It must placate the Tibetan population without appearing weak in the eyes of its much larger constituency. This is why CCP will make sure the standards of living for Tibetans continue to converge with the national average, and this is also why Rangzen or “Middle Way” don’t have a chance in hell. You can’t compete against the will of 1.3 billion people.

    Ironically, this was not the case in the 80′s, when the central government was much less willing to bow to public pressure. It was during the 80′s when Deng Xiao Ping floated an idea very close to “One Country, Two Systems” to Dharmasala, but it was rejected. Since Deng was the last leader who had the requisite political capital to negotiate on Chinese sovereignty, I suggest you pray really hard for an advantageous Tibet outcome, because that’s pretty much the only thing you can do.

    …But you would be in a much better situation if you were Chechenya. You see Dorji, unlike you, I actually know something about modern COIN operations and urban warfare, and specifically, Russia’s blunder during the First Chechen War. Chechenya was able to solicit a cease fire offer from Russia back in 96 after inflicting massive casualties on the Russian army. And if they (IIB) didn’t go around jihading Russian federal states, the second Chechen war would never have happened.

    But Tibet can never be Chechenya simply due to the lack of experienced warriors and modern weapons, so don’t go around day dreaming about a glorious Tibetan counter attack.

    Oh, please allow me to end this rather informative post with the customary “you’re a retard” comment.

  230. dorji | January 8th, 2012 | 2:32 pm

    haha..patent breacher…
    someone turned the lights off for a while and the roach jumped out of his hole to a piece of bread..in our case, a piece of thinking.

    You are obviously right as always. China came to help in Tibet. China killed to help. China sterilized women who had no children in order to help. China forces nomads to live in isolated settlement where they rot in poverty after confiscating their.

    You see, China want to help so much…but who???
    Also, china does not want the tibetans to flourish and take care of themselves. China want to ASSIMILATE tibetans. In that way, problems solved as tibetans disappear in the mainstream chinese culture. That equates to destruction of the culture dumbass. Does it not remind you of native americans? well that s because you are narrow minded my insect friend.
    About CHechenya, who cares if they had some fierce battles years ago?? the point is that the country is in total ruin and the population is decimated. And i can tell you the russians have conducted politics of ethnical “cleaning” there. I challenge you to go there and bring me some pictures of a flourishing culture. Dumbass.

    And about 9 outta 10 chinks that believe Tibet is CHina. Well, did you know 9 outta ten 3 years old children in the west believe Santa Claus actually exist?
    Dont lecture us on things we already know. Spend your energy on enlarging your tiny chingy dick. It will actually have some use for someone.

  231. dorji | January 8th, 2012 | 2:51 pm

    also patent breacher, and although i m not a supporter at all of that way..don t underestimate the fighting spirit of tibetans. it s been channeled by buddhism that s all. Today s suicides by immolation could be replaced by suicide bombings, killing 100 influent chink each time. With one million ready to do so, that s 100 millions elite chinks that go. elite gone: implosion. Feel gratitude that we are not like that (anymore). Like the gratitude you should display in the name of your ancestors for having pacified the mongols…who loooved to kill your kind, for centuries.

  232. Chinese Engineer | January 8th, 2012 | 9:47 pm

    Dorji, my illiterate friend, why don’t you put your pathetic misconceptions aside and actually read what I wrote? I understand that reading is difficult given your lack of literacy, but we must all strive to better ourselves.

    While I’m too tired to point out your usual straw men in 230, I will correct your large factual error regarding Chechenya and your moronic display of internet bravado.

    After 96, Chechnya enjoyed DE FACTO independence from the Russian Federation. Given you illiteracy, you might want to look up what the word “De Facto” means.

    Things turned south for the Chechnyan after several high profile bombing and terrorist activities within Russia, however. Activities you, ironically, espouse with great pride in post 231.

  233. Dorji | January 9th, 2012 | 6:03 am

    Patent Breacher. your stupidity is not worth responding anymore. I made all my points to you, except for 2: seek mental help. A shrink, or even a tibetan Lama, like your national Jet Li hero does. And i suspect you do have some serious inferiority complex to be spending useless energy here amplifying ccp nonsense. I suggested you take care of this usual chingy anatomical problem, i heard u guys are very active searching solutions in this department. tiger balls or rhino bones..whatever works for you..but keep searching.

  234. Chinese Engineer | January 9th, 2012 | 1:02 pm

    Dorji Dorji Dorji…

    Do you know what a straw man is? It’s a logical fallacy, typically used in debates. Do you know what logical fallacies are? It’s basically the garbage you type on this blog everytime you try to make a “point”.

    It goes without saying that you’re a fucking retard. I have come to terms with that, and so should you.

    However I am kind or bored enough to still, from time to time, point out your obvious mistakes.

    You should be thankful. And you should also take the opportunity to educate yourself.

    Your stupidity is most unintentionally amusing, however.

  235. dorji | January 9th, 2012 | 1:36 pm

    i bow to the very lowest i can do to be at your floor height, mighty cockroach. Thanks you for educating all of us here about everything and anything. from the bottom of my heart, you are, as his HH say, our teachers.

  236. Momo | January 9th, 2012 | 4:25 pm

    Crazy people. Rethink on Tibetan issue. China is now no room for lie and killing in this time. 12 is end of the bloody party. I am so happy.

  237. mano | January 12th, 2012 | 3:59 am

    i seriously think that this guy called chinese engineer has no other job other than putting his dick into tibetian websites.i am absolutely sure that this mother fucker has no other job rather than a communist party worker or a spy 100%

  238. Chinese Engineer | January 12th, 2012 | 6:16 pm

    Hello Mano,

    First, let me extend to you my deepest and most vile contempt. You’re a mouth breathing, shit eating retard whose existence is a drag on humanity. If India were to get rid of nationalistic and intellectually blind morons like you, it would enjoy quite an improvement in the quality of governance.

    Second, let me assure you that I am
    1) gainfully employed in the US private sector
    2) reaming ill educated and intellectually challenged Tibetan exiles and apparently mouth breathing Indians (on this blog only) at no financial benefit to myself.

    Allow me to bring this tirade to a close with a serious suggestion: please consider euthanasia for yourself, at your earliest convenience.

    Yours Truly

    CE

  239. Dorji | January 13th, 2012 | 3:20 am

    EVERY 10 minutes a cockroach is kidnapping another cockroach’s child for enslavement.

  240. Tash7 | October 9th, 2014 | 5:27 am

    WHAT MUST WE DO NOW?????????????????????????????

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