Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
These lines from “The Second Coming” have often been pressed into service in political writing (of the despairing kind) though they are generally misemployed to introduce or set out events that don’t quite come up to the urgency of Yeat’s doom-laden metaphysical vision. I once saw them leading an op-ed in a British paper, the day after Margaret Thatcher’s third electoral victory.
But what is happening these days in the Tibetan world can, unfortunately, only be described accurately in the most dire of apocalyptic terms. And I don’t just mean inside Tibet, where the unrelenting oppression, violence, population transfer, cultural genocide and environmental devastation has now taken on an eschatological turn with the rapid marginalization and pauperization of the Tibetan people in the face of large-scale Chinese (and foreign) mining and development projects.
The latest addition to this “end of days” scenario is the unmistakably ethnocidal “Nomad Resettlement Program”. According to an official Xinhua news report 25,000 new units are being built in Qinghai for 2011, in addition to the previous 46,000 resettlement units already up and running. It has been estimated that the five year program would entail a total of about 134,000 herding families (approximately half a million individuals) to be forcibly removed from their grasslands and interned in bleak housing camps that bear a disturbing resemblance to Stalinist gulags: row after row of identical grey cider-block huts surround by high stonewalls, the perimeters patrolled by police cars.
But no. Grim as all that is, I don’t just mean what is happening inside Tibet but also what is happening outside, particularly in Dharamshala, where the Tibetan government-in-exile has, to all intents and purposes, gone ahead and pulled the plug on itself.
One could say that it began in 1988 with the Dalai Lama’s Strasbourg Proposal where he surrendered the cause of Tibetan independence, but a more immediate starting point for this current crisis was certainly this year’s 10th March statement by the Dalai Lama where he announced his decision to resign. I posted a blog criticizing the timing of his statement which came just ten days before Tibetan national elections. I also repeated a suggestion I made some years ago in a previous article in Phayul.com, that although the Dalai Lama’s decision to fully democratize the exile government was undoubtedly welcome, it was vital for reasons of political continuity and the morale of the Tibetan people inside Tibet, that he remain the head of state of the Tibetan nation – although in a purely ceremonial capacity. An insightful editorial in Tibetan Political Review made a similar recommendation outlining legal and constitutional reasons why such a step was necessary and why the exile parliament should not rush into any “hasty decision” on this issue. All such counsel and concerns were lost on Dharamshala, if it had even faintly registered there to begin with. The Tibetan parliament made an emotional request to the Dalai Lama asking him to continue in his role as “…the supreme political and spiritual leader of Tibet.”
The Dalai Lama categorically rejected the appeal during a religious teaching at the Tsuglakang temple in Dharamshala on March 19th. One aspect of the Dalai Lama’s statement that some people did not seem to grasp at first was that he was not only resigning as the political leader and head of state, but that he was also absolutely ending the role of the Dalai Lama as a national institution of Tibet. A report in Phayul.com made that clear: “His Holiness further said that it was his voluntary decision to end the political role of the Institution of the Dalai Lama that dates back to 1642, when the Great Fifth Dalai Lama assumed Tibet’s political leadership role.”
Viewing a video of the speech I was struck by the Dalai Lama’s claim that he was ending the institution of the Dalai Lama “victoriously” (gyalge nang nay). The Dalai Lama went on to say that the name of the Tibetan government Ganden Phodrang (Joyous Palace) was originally the name of the 5th Dalai Lama’s labrang or personal sub-monastery within Drepung monastery, and that he was going to take the name back – clearly intimating that the exile government could no longer use that name and that it was his personal property. The Dalai Lama’s stipulation was somewhat disconcerting at first. Didn’t he realize that he couldn’t just reach back some 370 odd years in history to reorder events to suit his current plans anymore than he could realistically demand the Chinese return to him the actual Ganden Phodrang building (which still exists).
When the Great Fifth took the name of his personal monastery and bestowed it on the new government of a free Tibet, united for the first time since the fall of the old Tibetan empire, it was an irrevocable political act and a profound historic event. I think we can all be certain that the Fifth was not having second thoughts that somewhere along the line he might want to take back the Ganden Phodrang name, just in case he had a change of plan in the future. Anyway the Dalai Lama got a new and vastly greater palace, the Potala, that the Tibetan people built for him with their sweat and devotion, and a new personal monastery, the Namgyal monastery (which he still has). Since coming into exile he has a modern private secretariat (kugyer yiktsang) which has more resources and political clout than the exile-government. Isn’t that enough?
Since 1642 the Ganden Phodrang has been the government of Tibet, and the legitimacy of the present exile-government rests in the minds of all Tibetans on the fact that it is an unbroken continuation of the same government that ruled in Lhasa before. If you took the name away you, in effect, ended the legitimacy of the government. If the exile government was not Ganden Phodrang anymore, then the 49,184 exile Tibetans who cast their votes this year were not participating in democratic election for a new prime minister and parliament, but rather in elections for the chairman and board of directors, or something on those lines, of a refugee organization or administration.
The inherent contradiction in the Dalai Lama’s demand may have prompted the next step in this farce. A five member Charter Re-drafting Committee was shortly created, which included the prime minister Samdong Rimpoche and Parliament Speaker Penpa Tsering, Taking its cue from the Dalai Lama’s withdrawal of the Ganden Phodrang name, the committee proposed that the old term “government” be dropped and the term “organization” be substituted.
The committee even came up with a strange touchy-feely (but on second thoughts perhaps a profoundly cynical) motto for the new organization, “May Truth-ness Be Very Victorious” (denpanyi nampar gyalgyur chig ) to replace the former title and motto “The Government of Tibet, the Joyous Palace, Completely Victorious Everywhere (bhoshung ganden phodrang choglas namyal). This old formulation has a wonderful resonance to it, and I’m probably not the only one who thinks so. The government of Bhutan adopted something similar: “Palden Drukshung Choglas Namgyal. The Glorious government of Bhutan, Completely Victorious Everywhere.”
In an unusual fit of efficiency and energy the five-man committee even had the new motto engraved on the seal of the Tibetan government.
To discuss and endorse these proposals a national conference was called for May 20. Tenzing Sonam la, the filmmaker and essayist, in an article in Himal magazine, described this as “an historic occasion, as participants would debate the nearly 400-year-old political authority of the institution of the Dalai Lamas and the very existence of an official Tibetan government-in-exile.” Tenzing Sonam stresses how important this meeting was.
“418 Tibetans from around the world gathered in Dharamsala, constituting as representative a body of exile Tibetans as could be quickly mustered. After four days of intense discussions, the meeting unanimously requested the Dalai Lama to maintain a symbolic presence in the government as a ceremonial head of state, much like the system of constitutional monarchy in the UK. In the minds of the participants, there was no apparent contradiction in requesting this of the Dalai Lama as it did not impinge on his wishes to give up political authority. The name-change amendment was overwhelmingly rejected in favour of retaining ‘Tibetan Government-in-exile’.” (my italcs JN)
“When the participants had an audience with the Dalai Lama to present their conclusions, their first surprise was his firm refusal to even consider their recommendation that he remain as ceremonial head of state. But it was his response to their second point, the retention of ‘Tibetan Government-in-exile’ as the official name, that really shook them. He made a strong and emotional case against this proposal, saying that if the name was retained leading to a problem in the future, he would not be able to help them. He also suggested that the new name could be changed to something like ‘Tibetan People’s Administration’.
And that was exactly what was done in a following session of the Tibetan parliament. Steered and “chided” by Samdong Rimpoche, the parliament near unanimously voted to change the name of the Tibetan exile government to “Bhod Me Drik Tsuk” (lit. Institution/Organization of the Tibetan People).
Tenzing Sonam la’s article is required reading for anyone wanting to make sense of the tragic and farcial events played out in Dharamshala and the profoundly undemocratic, cynical and arbitrary manner in which decisions were made that led to them. A poignant obituary of the Ganden Phodrang government by Sherab Woeser la appeared in Phayul.com. Other commentaries on various aspects of this issue that provide valuable insight and analysis are those by Wangpo Tethong, Christophe Besuchet, and Prof. Elliot Sperling (in Jane’s Intelligence Review).
As much as I admired Tenzing Sonam la’s piece I must disagree with one of his main premises, repeated by many Tibetans and also such non-Tibetans as Pico Iyer, Patrick French and others, that “Ever since coming into exile in 1959, the Dalai Lama has tirelessly promoted democracy” but failed because Tibetans were too conservative, religious, and unquestioningly devoted to the Dalai Lama. This, I have I said before “is essentially a pious fable that frustrated exile-Tibetans repeat like a mantra to berate themselves for the crushing stasis of their society and political movement.” His Holiness may have initially started his democratic quest on a sincere note but his inability to tolerate criticism or even a modicum of loyal opposition essentially ensured that the Tibetan political experiment would soon degenerate into something like Nepal’s old one-party “Panchayat democracy”.
And I do not agree with Tenzing Sonam la that the Dalai Lama’s resignation was “A far-sighted and bold initiative by the Dalai Lama to decisively impose the responsibilities of democracy on the diaspora.” First of all I think it is evident that the Dalai Lama was not really resigning and retiring in the traditional sense of the term, like president George Bush going back to his ranch in Crawford Texas to clear brush or whatever, or in the tradition of many great lamas in Tibet who go into meditation retreats (tsam) on withdrawing from spiritual or administrative duties. Charles Bell was told in Lhasa that the Great Fifth Lama “conducted the secular affairs of his State for no more than three years. He then retired into religious seclusion.”
The Dalai Lama was not so much retiring as undertaking a major career change. Less than a month after his resignation he was in Ireland dispensing advice to the Irish on their economic crisis, telling them that “The ultimate source of happiness, peace of mind, cannot be produced by money,” Then he was in Australia where he took on an idiot talk-show host’s pizza joke, and consoled the people of Queensland on the deadly flood and cyclone disaster they had recently endured. In July he was in Washington DC to give a Kalachakra initiation to be followed by a public talk and discussion in Chicago. In the following months he has more commitments in France, Estonia, Finland, Canada, Monterrey Mexico, Mexico city, Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo (Brazil). This is not counting the four or more major teachings he is giving in Dharamshala, which will be attended by hundreds of devotees from Taiwan and South Korea. Going through the schedule section of the website dalailama.com leaves you tremendously impressed by the Dalai Lama’s stamina. It also makes you realize that His Holiness has for some time now been far more busy in his global spiritual quest than with the issue of Tibetan freedom.
It has been argued by many of the Dalai Lama’s devotee’s, Tibetan and non-Tibetan, that his teachings and travels benefit the Tibetan cause as they bring much needed international attention to it. There is undoubtedly some truth to this assertion, but the bottom line is that such spiritual junkets bring in only as much publicity to the cause as the Dalai Lama is actually willing to talk about. When he does not raise the issue during his travels (which is increasingly becoming the norm) the media is perfectly happy to ignore the hard political issues (why annoy China when you don’t have to?) and instead write about spirituality and world-peace.
Of course, the Dalai Lama’s has a right to do as he pleases on retiring. If he wants to spend his time providing spiritual guidance to the world, his decision is not only worthy of respect but even praise and admiration. I have no doubt that the Dalai Lama’s spiritual ministrations provide tremendous solace and direction to thousands of people around the world and that is certainly a very positive thing.
My only objection is to his deliberate decision to strip away the historic name and motto of the Tibetan government, essentially shutting down the institution as a political entity by reducing it from an “exile-government” to a refugee administration or organization. Many Tibetans, especially old officials and ministers in retirement were absolutely shattered by the Dalai Lama’s decision. I spoke to some of them and they appeared confused and bewildered as to why the exile-government had to end just because the Dalai Lama was retiring.
I was also puzzled at first but on some reflection it became fairly obvious. Tibetans overwhelmingly feel that the Dalai Lama’s policy to seek dialogue with Beijing has failed. Most feel that the failure has been disastrous and humiliating. Only the Dalai Lama active management of this issue and the effort of Samdong Rimpoche and other loyalists have kept the “Middle Way Approach” afloat – but even then, just barely. Without the Dalai Lama’s hands-on leadership and with the ultimate decision-making powers being transferred to a democratically elected exile-government, it could be reasonably expected that a Rangzen based political party would come into power, sooner or later. Possibly sooner, with all the unrest and uprisings within Tibet.
Therefore to ensure the permanence of the Middle Way policy within exile society – to set it in concrete as it were – it was vital that the exile-government be politically emasculated and converted into a body only capable of managing the settlements, schools etc, and not able to make decisions regarding the future of the Tibetan nation. Right now although the Dalai Lama is said to have completely retired and the claim has been made by the parliament that all political powers have been transferred to new “Tibetan People’s Organization” (TPO), it is not clear whether the various offices of Tibet and representatives and envoys of the Dalai Lama all over the world are under his authority of that of the TPO. Nearly all our dealings with other nations and also much of our externally generated funding is received by these unofficial “embassies”. The Dalai Lama’s international travels and programs are also managed by them.
It was also vital to the implementation of this plan that the Dalai Lama not remain as the symbolic head of state, even though requested by nearly all Tibetans. Any such connection would benefit the TPO through the Dalai Lama’s prestige and international standing. Moreover if he became the ceremonial head of state he would be constitutionally bound (as the Queen of England, the Emperor of Japan, and the King of Thailand are) not to publicly disagree with whatever policies that the elected organization had enacted, even if they included the rejection of the Middle Way.
The Dalai Lama has said that on retirement he would continue to promote the Middle Way Policy, and the new preamble of the amended charter gives him the standing to do so. So what you actually have now is someone with more political clout than a ceremonial head of state, but with no requirement to support the policies of the new elected Tibetan organization. And since the Dalai Lama will be situated in Dharamshala with his own private monastery and private secretariate, which will presumably henceforth be called Ganden Phodrang, no new administration or TPO, even one elected by a landslide majority, would be able to do anything the Dalai Lama did not approve.
The present kalon tripa, Lobsang Sangay la, appears to have fully absorbed the new reality. In his first interview since winning the elections he declared that “he stood for the Middle Way”, and that he “..will strive for the genuine autonomy of Tibet within the Chinese constitution.” He has also stated that he would abide by the advice and guidance of the Dalai Lama. Earlier when he was campaigning, he had been careful to always declare that he supported both independence as well as the Middle Way. In fact he coined a new term “u-rang“, combining the first syllable from umay-lam or Middle way and the first syllable from rangzen to define his unique position.
The conviction that the Middle Way must always remain the only political ideology of Tibetans, even if that status quo can only be maintained in the most undemocratic, cynical and self-destructive manner, is an article of faith for many of the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way loyalists. They openly argue that the Dalai Lama’s international travels, meeting with various heads of states, public lectures and teachings, would come to a crashing halt if Tibetans began to advocate for independence, and some Western followers of the Dalai Lama also assert this. A Brazilian diplomat who came to a talk of mine at Tibet House in New York city told me so to my face and I wasn’t too sure whether she was giving me a bit of advice or making a threat. Another justification cited is that the financial support the exile administration receives from the EU, US Congress and other organizations would stop if exiles adopted the goal of Rangzen. These people are of course absolutely mistaken, and are just buying into a classic instance of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I won’t go into that now. The important thing to note is that it is a real belief on their part, one that the Dalai Lama also genuinely holds.
There is an additional reason, crucial but not openly discussed, why the Dalai Lama seeks to ensure that the Middle Way is never supplanted in exile polity. I wrote this in 2007 “Over the last decade, a delusion has been cultivated in Tibetan leadership circles that Tibetan Buddhism could become the dominant, perhaps even the state religion of China. An unspoken corollary to this eventuality is that the Dalai Lama could somehow be accorded the larger role of spiritual leader of the Chinese people.” Victor Chan who has co-authored a book with the Dalai Lama The Wisdom of Forgiveness, and founded the Dalai Lama Center for Peace and Education jointly with His Holiness, told me during an interview that he “… felt sure that His Holiness could become the leader of China’s Buddhists, but that in order for that to happen Tibetans had to renounce their demand for independence, since the Chinese “people” would never accept an independent Tibet.” His Holiness has put it more modestly “I would like to perform a Kalachakra in Tiananmen Square.”
The Dalai Lama’s special emissary, Lodi Gyari in an interview in Rediff.com made this claim: “One of the most decisive factors in the Tibetan issue is this newly found interest for Buddhism in China. In the same interview, Gyari claimed that there was a great “extent of reverence” for the Dalai Lama throughout China, even among officials in the Chinese government and the Communist Party. Gyari felt that this reverence even extended to China’s entrepreneurs and business community who believed “that what China really needs is the presence of His Holiness.”
It’s clear that His Holiness and those around him are convinced they are playing for enormous international stakes. Hence their impatience with those who still cling to such outdated, unprofitable and inconsequential institutions and issues as the exile-government and Tibetan independence. Yet, inside Tibet people continue to rise up for freedom and suffer the consequences. In exile, confused and heartbroken as most Tibetans are, demonstrations, hunger-strikes and marches go on. Shouldn’t someone be telling these people to go home; that it’s all over? And especially to those inside Tibet, to stop putting themselves at such enormous risk and danger for a cause that has been officially abandoned. Or do these people know something that we don’t? That perhaps far from being over the struggle may just be beginning? I don’t know, but I’d like to investigate this in Part II. A concluding observation.
Only two Dalai Lamas are known to Tibetans as “The Great” (chenmo). The Great Fifth (kuntreng ngaba chenmo) reunited a Tibet fragmented since the collapse of the Tibetan Empire, and the Great Thirteenth, (kundreng chuksumpa chenmo), freed Tibet from Manchu domination in 1911 and created an independent nation. The present Dalai Lama has received many distinguished international titles and honors “Nobel Laureate”, “Congressional Medal of Honor Holder” and so on, but the simple yet ultimate accolade from his own people has so far eluded him. His courtiers routinely address him as “The Great Helmsman of World Peace” (zamling shide dhipon), which is, I suppose, a title more in keeping with his current aspirations, but I wish they hadn’t used the same Tibetan word for “Helmsman” (dhipon) as the one used in Tibet during the Cultural Revolution to honor Mao, “The Great Helmsman”.
What a trash! The usual diatribe from an immature-sixty-year-old-orthodox! Jamyang la, can’t you see that His Holiness is separating religion and politics for a long term Tibetan struggle for freedom? The Chinese have already designed their plans to control the next Dalai Lama with Order no 5. While the institution of the Dalai Lama is the greatest inspiration for the Tibetan people, it is also a huge liability for foul play by the oppressors of the Tibetan people. The Manchus as foreigners have done it historically, Tibetan civil servants as home elements have done it in the past and now the Communist as the current ruler of Tibet will do it through modern-day legal instruments under the banner of sovereignty. This decision by His Holiness ensures that the struggle of the Tibetan people will remain forever so long as there is an issue of the Tibetan people. The message that goes out is that the issue of the people is more important than the institution of the Dalai Lama. Now it is up to the Tibetan people to carry forward and fight for our cause. The burden has fallen on our shoulders which till date has been single pointedly on that of His Holiness. And if any one has a point to prove or a splendid idea to put into effect, the gates of democracy is wide open.
some how jamyangla couldn’t get away from his obssession with tibetan Kudak government.
maybe he had been influenced too much by Kudak walas during his childhood.
This is over exaggeration and has the potential to mislead uninformed and especially loud rangzen wallas. However I agree on these questions,
“Shouldn’t someone be telling these people to go home; that it’s all over? And especially to those inside Tibet, to stop putting themselves at such enormous risk and danger for a cause that has been officially abandoned. Or do these people know something that we don’t? That perhaps far from being over the struggle may just be beginning?”
India will soon tell exiles to shut up, and now they are more intolerant for making trouble when geopolitical situation is getting warmer. No one knows better Tibet than Tibtans inside Tibet. So,next time, rangzen wallas dont preach to the crowd since almost all of you never set foot on Tibet. Once Tibetans in Tibet stop putting their lives to enormous risk, even people like Jamyang Norbu will not have an opportunity to write about wrongs in Tibet. Lol…he certainly fails to this point. If you dont believe this, then listen carefully to his talks, he always makes Tibet a kind of hell and only he knew because he heard or read, but as a matter of fact, never experienced. Maybe Jamyang la is too tired and bored to write, since he cannot stop suddenly, he needs a perfect excuse to stop his writing career. So, now he is suggesting Tibetans inside Tibet should stop creating problems for themselves. Marvelous, people stop…and let the lone man have a big rest.
Cheer
NG
Thank you Jamyang’la for this lucid analysis. Thank you also for these disturbing information.
I agree that the Dalai Lama’s commitment to democracy is questionable and that the democratic failure has nothing to do with Tibetans being too “this” or too “that”. I had the pleasure to experiment Tibetan democracy during the years I worked in Dharamshala and I know what it can mean to be too outspoken. Unfortunately, many Tibetans believe that democracy has only to do with casting votes and electing a prime minister. Beautifully naive.
As for the Dalai Lama’s retirement, there’s not the shadow of a doubt that the Dalai Lama will continues to play the most important role in Tibet’s foreign policies. Attempts at talks with the Chinese regime will be conducted on his name, under his terms and by his envoys. Has this anything to do with leaving one’s job or ceasing to work?
However, as far as rebranding the Tibetan Government as the “Tibetan People’s Organization”, I am personally convinced that it has solely to do with the suicidal logic of the Middle Way. The name “government in exile” was simply not in tune with a complete surrender. Full stop. And I must stress here that it is not the Charter Re-drafting Committee that proposed the term “organization” (sgrig-‘dzugs) as you suggest, but the Dalai Lama himself, who made several references to this term in his Tsuglagkhang speech of 19 March.
It hurts to admit it, but I did not expect to witness such a dark time for Tibet…
Chris n JN, how Tibetan democracy should conducted? If it is too late, then when it should be? Your idea of rangzen and incoherent argument about it, and with hidden agenda of sacrificing certain territorial claim is the worst of politcs. As everyone know, JN’s fact of rangzen does not go beyond chamdo, and Chris’ early assertion in the comment on LS article, that certain territorial compromised must be made if independence is not compromised. The best and valid accussation, JN n his donkey followers should have done is, the 14th dalai lama is not leader of Tibet since he was born as Tibetan born in a chinese administered Tibetan area. So JN n his old kudras will bring true democracy the handful of exiles. I hope you guys do not forget the context in which dmocracy of Tibet is developed. Bad or worse, the person of DL served the interest of Tibetans for entired, JN probably served servant for a while, maybe held a gun without shooting mustang, ultimately land in the land of red necks. As Chris, support is support, I doubt Chris will sacrifice his life for Tibetan indepedence. Playing to people’s ignorance is not a responsible person.
Cheers
NG
I may agree and disagree here and there, but the fact that JN has courageously and honestly brought up the issue from a different perspective is helpful and is worthy of appreciation. Aren’t we moving ahead towards a democratic pluralism? So lets take-in different views with respect.
NewGenerationTB: It’s amusing how you escape the main issue by entertaining us with your stories about “old kudras”, “hidden agenda”, “donkey followers” and with your provincialism. Can’t you comment the article instead?
Jamyang la,
Great and a though-provoking article.
Only wise, intelligent, far-sighted, and progressive can understand the gravity of our recent debacle.
i would disagree your questioning of the his holiness motive about the full democratization of our govt. I would only say that he agreed to much and listen with Samdhong Rinpoche and other pseudo scholar.
Classic example of Bad Advisors.
Agu.
Thank you for this. It’s brutally honest and won’t be appreciated by a majority of Tibetans but that is not to say that there aren’t tibetans who share your perspective. the actions coming out of dharamsala in the last few weeks have been a complete letdown.
I found it quite astonishing that the decision of such importance was put into effect without much consultation and given due diligence and public opinion. It was done fast before the new parliamment and prime minister could take over the reign. Now Kundun is out of politics, he must stick to religious teachings and stay out of politics and if political questions come up, he should defer it to the political leaders as is only natural. If the Tibetans choose Rangzen or any other plan, he should agree with it publicly. It is time for well deserved rest from politics and for all Tibetans to take heavier burdan. Great article!
Dear Jamyang la,
I have only one request, If you are such a hardcore beleiver of RANGZEN and you think you can make it happen…..so what stops you from proving it at the ground. you have written the rangzen charter and tons of article ….now it is time to act. Ofcourse it would not happen overnight but show us your first step… be it in gaining tibetan supports or international supports. It is not enough to post an article in yours blog even if it is a higly thought provocating. I feel you have to fill the huge gap between what you want and what is possible to make that happen. Beleive me you are not alone who cares deeply for Tibet. In the name of free speech you have specialized yourself in criticizing criticaly the Dalai lama, till here it is absolutely fine. In the earlier times I must confess I have admired yours analysis specially reagarding tibetan history and 13th Dalai lama. And yes we are no more in 70s, and many tibetans are matured in taking criticisms.
My point is all your recent articles reflects ours frustation regarding the current tibet’s situation but instead of pointing the finger towards the chinese government you are quite often blaming the Dalai lama’s presumbly mistep regarding tibet’s future. At the surface nothing wrong but in the very subtle way it questions the Dalai Lama’s leadership. Now to be honest Dalai Lama is still very popular among tibetans inside and outside Tibet. This is the fact. Yet,When you say HH the Dalai lama should still retain atleast like a head of state it shows you are not against his leadership but when you write Dalai Lama’s commitment to democracy is questionable. I have difficult time digesting these contradictry line. For me it is a point blank critisim and it is not a democratic way. It is neither helpful for the tibetan cause instead it is a free service to the chinese government. Now the conclusion If you do not agree with Dalai Lama’s middle way , why making so much fuss about what the Dalai Lama ought to do or do not. Will it not be reasonable if you and like minded person who are hardcore RANGZEN seeker engaged actively in a parallel track in gaining the impulse of RANGZEN FEVER ? At the moment Rangzen’s track is definetly far behind but the way to reach the destinaton is not by distructing the MIDDLE WAY track so the only option is to gain up that gap. We need both track to be able to bear the Tibet’s train to reach its destination. My only request is create the RANGZEN Track constructively ,creatively and cohesively.
This is as honest an opinion one can get from anybody. The cognitive dissonance in the Tibetan society must be addressed head on with unflinging honesty, whether it is popular or not, whether it bears applause or stones from Mcload Ganj. Even in the most astute and brilliant people, I observe this dissonance, and I found that highly problematic when discussing issues of immense gravity. It is easy to jump on the band wagon and take the easy road and join the finger wagging competition, each person trying to outdo the next in loudness and show of faithfulness. You know what I mean.
I believe this is a very thought provoking article and though I may not agree with everything he has written, he has also raised very interesting points that we might ponder upon and at least consider.
Tenpa la ,
I think we should move one step ahead beyond pondering and considering interesting points. we have had for the past decade, now RANGZEN WAGON should move on constructively otherwise ……….still the same old blames and counterblames.
Respected JN la,
China Communist government occupied our country Tibet in 1959, from then on until the present time they (CCP) try to root out Hiss Holiness Dalai Lama from the hearts of Tibetans living inside Tibet by wealth and positions. They never succeeded in this grand plan; rather it bolstered the belief in His Holiness.
Today with your article, you seem corroborating with China’s grand plan, very sad day for me, and fellow Tibetans.
Thank you all, indeed your suggestion helps to develop deference angel in democratic society, I am pretty sure that Dalai Lama taking wrong path in general… Since he resigned from politics’s of Tibet and that’s it he’s done……
He is taking the Buddha’s teaching on emptiness in wrong sense and misinterpretation.
That’s not means Tibet and Tibetans are let in miserable and himself became very famous in the mask of universal compassion…
1. I agree the arguments is compelling and I will take at face value that the historical accounts are true.
2. I agree JN is an established scholar and his knowledge in Tibetan and Chinese history is thorough. He is also a visionary, his hopes for Tibet is sincere nodoubt.
I do not agree totally to the intrepretation and conclusions he has drawn about events. Especially, HH dalai lama’s motivation although events seem to unfold as if it was delibrate and planned, I am sure it is circumstantial. And, I will never know. Dalai Lama often stressed “he has no regrets and whatever he did was with purest of heart” I definitely like to believe him by the way he conducts his personal life.
In this whole situation where we are heading now, how much a blame can be placed upon.
1. Tibetan citizens: I have been local TYC leader for several years in India and outside. Sometimes the level of participation in tibet’s issue is “aneamic” I have questioned the motivation of fellow tibetans but I have drawn no conclusion. The reasons are complex and multiple. The main issue with China seem to be personal welbeing. When personal welbeing is taken care of then there is “No Issue”. Often people can be critical without any participation. Dalai lama indicated in one of his speech as one of the reasons for choosing middle way”tibetan love money and material progree, then being with china is an ovious benefit”
2. Local leaders or Dhonchoes: I grew up in the biggest Tibetan settlement in south India. What is the role of these “Dhonchoes” leader? mentor? observer? Are are we allowed to have expectations from them? Truthfully, I really don’t know who is coming or going. Their backgrounds are questionable for the position. The only place we see them is at festivals and marriages. Don’t get me wrong, they must be doing their routine office work well. How easy Donchoe’s job can get?. Solidarity is ready made for them, I know not perfect.
One thing is for sure, our people in Tibet are not in a postion to engage in complex political debate. All they need is a leader and As long as Dalai lama lives, whether he devolves his political power or not, in thier minds “He will be the leader”
Remember, HH Dalai lama stresses a lot on Globalisation, EU, universal responsiblity besides love and compassion. Are we on the same page???? I know its getting really complex.
Dokpa
Dokpa
We Tibetan need a hundred more years to understand the way of democracy.i think if we vote again on middle way then i think majority will vote for rangzen bhoe rangzen tsangma yin,kyi he he he ………………
o tgie! respect tibetan people’s freedom to be free and independent from china
within each tibetan lies a bone-deep longing for independence, multi-party democracy and basic human dignity. to realize these basic human rights, we need the practical support of our leadership which is unfortunately not yet forthcoming.
a good system with democratic outlets to give practical shape to tibetan people’s dreams ensures genuine democracy which is missing in dhasa for so long despite the official claim.
tibetan leadership can never earn the respect of its people unless the relationship is built on respect, non-paternalism and equal footing and a recognition and understanding of this powerful force inside each tibetan heart.
blatant denial of the right to access to tibetan-govt-in-exile thru multi party system can translate into loss of tibetan people’s trust and hope in its leadership which can degenerate into mass political depression, lawlessness and violence.
Provocative. Should be read widely by the Tibetans, with a critical eye of course. Would love to know why Jamyang is against a republican democracy!
JN lak, I agree with your article and I appreciate you for writing on such delicate issue which will not be easily digested by fellow Tibetans. We need more free thinkers like you to have open dialogue about our issues. If a Tibetan thinks your article questions HHDL’s political role, it only means you are being a responsible citizen. We need to distinguish HHDL’s religious and political role and look at it from two different lenses. I have two suggestions for you:
1. Please publish this article in Tibetan language as well.
2. In your next article, please write about SOLUTIONS to our present situation.
very good English, indeed.
But there is too much anger, rhetoric and blaring that logic is missing in large part. This kind of angry writing may go against rangzen aspirants.
If only JN-la spends a little more time in Dharamsala and tries to understand a bit of ground realities rather than fast-typing from his extremely comfortable residence in Tennessee.
I have a Q for JN-la: Do u want the Dalai Lama to continuously rule and let the Tibetan people carry His wishes without a question? Or do you somehow want the Tibetan people to be ruled by an elected leadership?
One the one hand u want say that it is wrong for the Dalai Lama to quit and on the other hand u state that the Dalai Lama will have influence over the elected leadership.
U need to reduce your adrenaline/gut feeling/angry shots and find logic based on ground realities.
Writing like this may please some but it will have little useful impact. This is likely to be treated as an angry immature opinion by a rangzen fanatic. And ultimately, this is BAD for all of us who urgently ardently and desperately want an INDEPENDENT TIBET!!
Tenzin Norgye,
Having the Dalai Lama as a symbolic head of state doesn’t mean he will “continuously rule”. All the contrary. The government’s executive power rests with the prime minister, the head of government. Look at England; does the Queen has any power?
For those who still have problem in differentiating a head of state from a head of government, please refer to this previous comment of mine:
https://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2011/03/28/resolving-the-dalai-lama-resignation-crisis-2/#comment-8654
Hi everyone,
I’m not a Tibetan, nor am I an expert on Tibet issue, but I am a member of a Tibet support group and I would like to point a question and give my opinion here, if you let me:
During H.H.Dalai Lama’s leadership, he had the last decission on wether seeking rangzen or middle way instead.
But now that he has resigned, should not be the Tibetans inside Tibet who should decide, together with the community in exile, in a referendum, what they want? I think the only way of giving democratic steps regarding this kind of inmensely important issues for the future of a nation is to do it through a referendum. I know the practical limitations to do so, but the lack of facility to do it doesn’t give legitimacy to something only voted for hundred thousand cityzens. Who is representing the will of the 6 millions in occupied Tibet?
There are many schollars, activists, etc among the tibetan community in exile discussing this and that, but should you not ask the millions of TIbetans in occupied Tibet what they will struggle for and what steps will they give and support and strengthen it from exile?
If there is a movement inside Tibet, should you not put it first?
As we all know, China’s interest on Tibet is financial and geo-political, and Tibetans are beeing treated as second class cityzens (just to say it in a polite way). But watching how the Chinese dignataries treat their own cityzens, how do you expect them to treat the “minorities”?
Wether you like it or not, right now Tibet politically belongs to China. If Tibetans’ decission is to continue under it’s rule, democracy and human rights will not come to Tibet unless coming to China first. That is a fact. But if final decission is Rangzen, do you really expect international support? According to International Law there is this right to self-determination of peoples, but since this right was drafted by nation-estates, it gives little options for a real use of it. And then, here comes the US and EU. You guys really want to depend on them? Both the american dream, and the European dream are a fraud, a huge fraud.
Finally, H.H.Dalai Lama (or any other) touring the world for peace, compassion, and respect for others is really good. Since this world’s rule needs a deep change, it has to come from grassroots. What better grassroots than those with peace, compassion and respect in their hearts, minds and actions?
I might have said something stupid, but as I said, I am not an expert, just a friend concerned… Bod gyalo
Prof. Elliot Sperling’s essay “The Tibetan Movement Pulls the Plug on Itself: Advantage China” has just been republished on the Rangzen Alliance’s website. Everyone should read it: http://bit.ly/mUNENH
The next step in this capitulation process will be the PRC inviting the leadership of the now defunct TGIE to retire to comfortable PRC-sponsored existences in countries of their choosing. Out of sight, is out of mind. This will be in return for the TGIE’s complicity in the opaque negotiations that have masqueraded as a dialogue and morphed into a bargaining process between His Holiness, his representatives and the PRC’s United Front.
For the PRC, closure of the TGIE will remove an embarrassing impediment to its international public relations image, and for India, too, an end to a foreign relations weeping sore it can well do without.
One cannot expect the exile Tibetans, equiped as they are with democracy ‘trainer wheels’, to develop effective and transparent democratic commitment and mechanisms overnight. However His Holiness and his advisors’ electoral slights of hand, hidden agendas and failures in guiding transparent process have been breathtaking in both their contempt and audacity.
The reality here is that the TGIE has given up. Many in the TGIE have been quietly relocating themselves and their children in foreign countries for years(recall the 1,000 US visa scandal of the early 1990’s?). There is now no reason for them to continue with the struggle, rather they only need to find a convenient way to ‘pull the roller-shutter down on the TGIE shop front’ whilst retaining some ‘face’.
The exiled Tibetan elite have failed. The ‘kungos’ will now do what they do well – picnic.
Tibet’s fate will be determined by the Tibetans inside Tibet.
Jamyang la…what a great piece of work once again. There is no stopping the Rangzen people now that will organize themselves, unite and put dignity and honesty back on the exile map. All this BS about being against HH is you are for Rangzen…heard it a million times ! How the many thousands of wishes of HH are ignored..but the Middle Way one is picked out and clung onto as Tibetans inside Tibet continue to protest and die !
His Holiness is a WORLD leader, a figure with the highest moral values trying His best to get the message out to every single human in the world that we are all going nowhere if we put emphasis on the wrong things in life.
His Holiness never claimed to be the saviour of the Tibetan people..He did His best but that sadly wasn´t enough to change the chinese and their appeasers.
Now that HH has moved aside it is up to Tibetans themselves to make the best of what is left of Tibetan society in exile. Actually it´s back to scratch..and you guys are starting with nothing..as far as any movement is concerned ! Of course there are people that live the good life in exile..most of that built on the great work done by HH all by himself. Of course it´s not easy to leave the comfort zone. It´s a lot easier to blast one of the few , courageous critics you have for laying it on the line !
I am sick of the hypocrisy of standing in front of some asshole embassy for a couple of hours and then going somewhere to eat momos and drink beer and hang out with Tibetans that listen to some Injis telling them how nice their last trip to Tibet or India was !
If this is about Tibetans inside Tibet then it´s time to get some real work done. If it´s not then let´s all be at least honest about it !The days of hiding behind His Holiness are over
Jamyang la, with respect, I must protest: you are not being nearly aggressive enough.
“They openly argue that the Dalai Lama’s international travels, meeting with various heads of states, public lectures and teachings, would come to a crashing halt if Tibetans began to advocate for independence, and some Western followers of the Dalai Lama also assert this.”
Is the Dalai Lama more important or is Tibetan independence more important? You have argued that the two are inseparable.
Consider his recent visit to Australia. It was an absolute fiasco: there was the pizza-incident you have mentioned; there was also his appearance on Masterchef Australia. http://www.masterchef.com.au/dalai-lama-turns-masterchef-judge.htm
Sure, he is promoting international peace, he is spreading Tibetan Buddhism, he is cultivating his cult of personality. But we should question at this stage whether these little publicity stunts are bringing us real public attention that will help our cause, or are devaluing the situation we find ourselves in. If it’s the latter, we must jettison the Dalai Lama, and good riddance.
Thank you again for such an insightful article into the current debacle unfolding in Dharamsala.
It is heartening to see such ignorance and stupidity and self-immolation come out of Dharamsala. Every year the hope of a Tibet gets weaker and weaker mainly because of TGIE’s doing… sorry, OTP’s doing
As much as I have reverence for HHDL, steps he has taken lately seems to be counter productive. It seems futile to hand the keys to TGIE elected represntatives but still advocate middle-way.
There are so many things going in the wrong direction that I feel like dis-associating with the whole Tibet issue and live a disgruntled unemployed american’s life. Maybe that is what HHDL and the Chinese want us Tibetans to do. But reading your articles and comments on them I don’t feel all alone. Maybe there is hope.
Thank you for all you do.
MIA there for a while but good to see Jamyang Norbula back on board.
The other argument that’s been passed down is that NO country has come forward to support (sponsor) the stand for Tibet as an independent nation. POLAND might be the only one that comes closest to doing so? I learned from a Polish friend that for about 100 yrs their country disappeared completely from all world maps; chopped into bits and ‘grabbed’ by surrounding powerful neighbours. I wonder what Jamyangla & others have to say about the lack of this support
A lot to chew on till part II.
Good article, Jamyang.
It’s dismaying though. But as a wise man once said “I’d rather feel like crap than be full of crap.”
Tracking HH’s speeches and doings over the past several years, one can make the conclusion that this is the logical final step in preserving the “Middle Way” idea. Sad as that is.
Personally, I think HH has some wise things to say about humanity and it’s doings in various aspects of life, but he is dead wrong on politics so many times.
No nation’s freedom was ever gained without its people and leaders having backbones.
This wouldn’t be the first time a people’s interests for survival have been betrayed by religious or political leaders, intent on only maintaining their view and their prestige.
It’s a sad time for the world, but perhaps a new beginning. HH can give up. Let him. As we say in Chicago, “If you are not now, you never were.”
In 1993/94 my brother Mingyur Dorji Phu-nub-pa
(Btw, it’s Chung Riwoche Phu-nub-pa, not Sakya Phunubpa)wrote a letter of constructive criticism on the Dalai Lama’s speech given in person in Israel, where his mission was to gain the political support of Israel, which declared that Hitler—the genocidal devil incarnate– had bodhi chita or Buddha nature and was therefore a potential force of compassionate altruism.
This view expressed at the wrong place left thousands of Jews around the world absolutely shocked. Of course many Israelites present at his speech screamed curses at the Dalai Lama in his face. If what the Dalai Lama said was true, the holocaust wouldn’t have happened in the first place. So that’s what everybody rightly opined. But that’s not the point here.
The letter worked up the Tibetan security department and the private office that were running around raking his humble background simply because he had a different view on things that they deemed too political. Obviously, his letter must a powerful one that they couldn’t ignore it to the trash can. All this simply proved the suspicious intolerant nature of our leadership to views that do not toe their party line.
Only a friend up there in Dhasa prevented them from the stupidity of digging further into the individual freedom of an average but well meaning citizen.
In the field of reasoning, leadering, political awareness, charisma, public speaking and writing (including voice and looks) he was second to none, not only in the exile world but in the entire Indian subcontinent!
His only weakness was he was too patriotic, honest and fair. Dhasa has never appreciated this; it only appreciates faith driven and political cronies.
Well, my only regret is, young and stupid as I was, I didn’t give a damn to learn a thing from him—a doctor at home so they say. Too late. He was only 49 when he kicked the bucket in his hut like Lhukhangwa—Tibet’s last prime minister– who died a poor man on a hard bed in the Buddha vihar slums in Delhi. But he did give 29 years of his life to mostly unpaid community services in lesser known places.
But never mind. Not too late really. Soon my Rangzen warrior friends and I will be sucking the nectar of JN’s political education, experience and skills OFFLINE which often has those enlightening secret buds(which online often lacks) to his contributions and achievements for Tibet and Rangzen.
I am impressed by his 4 decades of political courage which many of us severely lack including my late big brother.
JN is 63 now and before this lone outspoken and able Rangzen warrior departs for the heavenly fields, we must make attempts to transfer his Rangzen qualities to ourselves, IN OUR HEAD AND IN ACTION, for death is a tide that has no calendar.
I read this post twice and I got only ¼ of it! Sure I need to do a lot of homework.
I will try to attempt a review of this post for its contents and the structure of the writing.
Thank you and see you all in New York in September and during Bodhgaya Kalachakra in January 2012.
Rise and rise again
Until the lambs become lions!
Oppression has never willingly complied with FREEDOM.
so,we are discussing on the past events.
we did acquired one good or bad habbit from Jagaa phakpay yuul, discussing on the action and drama of hindi movie, 20 minutes after watching the movie. Doesn’t mean anything for next day or for future but a mere gossip to end a bollyhood entertainment.
Again you are late!!
Gyalkab rangzen, don’t be stupid religious devotee while you are trying to prove otherwise. What did happen to your rangzen conference in dc during kalachakra? What the fucking are you going to do in bodgaya during kalachakra? You supposed to be in another place, like Tn and shout ur empty rangzen slogan and supposed to bash all ignorant religious folks. DL might confuse you with another statement and you might die of heartattack or a desperate death of ur relatives you mentioned above. Stay out of bodgaya…..it is not a place n time for stupid opinion makers, but honest and religious devotees. What a stupid man! Rumour monger with nothing to prove.
Jamyang la,
Thanks for having the courage to call spade a spade.
Every one speaks of trashs, burn and despair. Very negative..
This happened because of him/her. That happened because of him. How about look at your own self. How much time and effort have each of us devoted to Tibetan cause? Have we seriously joined or formed any organisation of like mindedness to achieve a short or long term goal?
Every one sees that Tibet is vanishing in the mist of time. And some scholar tries to put in perspective and points fingers to someone. That makes idle tibetans happy tha join in. HA HA !!! I am not responsible, its him or them.
I am interested in what are we going to do now. Don’t try to convince me that Tibetan public can not stear the course of Tibet. Don’t tell me that we are stuck with the label.” Tibetan organisation” . If lables could chok us, than we are really stupid. Any scholary discussion is useless, just another whispers in the wind.
Dokpa
Dear Hugh,with all the due respect to you and your opinions,I beg to differ you on “if you were not now,you never were”,that’s if I have understood close to what you are trying to hint at.Before, I go any further,I, as a Tibetan would fully appreciate with gratitude that you have given time and shown interest in the Tibetan situation.Please continue to go to the heart of Tibetan history,polity,culture and religion,and understand the sentiments of majority Tibetan folks.We Tibetans may differ on our political view points depending upon our level of education and understanding based on how exposed are we to (well/not so well educated,informed)surroundings we live in.But one thing is for sure”His Holiness is now,His Holiness always was,and He will always be” at the hearts and in the minds of the Tibetans.My heart felt support has always been for rangzen.That’s how it will be.I do not how to fight against what I truly believe in,but as a Tibetan,my gratitude will always remain with His Holiness.(Just for the telling sake,my daughter and I do not always go by the same line.That has not stopped me from being her mother nor has she stopped being daughter).If you think I misunderstood you or misread you,I beg your pardon and my willing ears are there to listen.
Tibetans do need good friends like you around.So do hang around us.Since you and us are from two different cultural back grounds,we may more oft than not need to be patient in understanding each other.Thank you for opening up yourself frankly.Only sincere and well meaning friends would do that.So thank you again.
Jamyang la:
YOU GOT GUTS BUDDY! TRUTH is TRUTH!
unfortunately, Tibetans will understand your meaning after 2 generations from now.
May be you should try after Tibetans are free from GOD/GHOST madness from their head.
Please give little time to get more mature!
Keep it up bud.
BODGYALO!
“if you are not now, you never were” I like this line very much. thanks hugh. it really rings true. our people have bad habit of playing safe and some type of survivors characteristic is that whichever party wins then they want to be in that.I have some respect for people who i dont agree with and stick to their guns than people wieghing and ready to jump sides to the stronger side.
newgeneration of tuberclosis,
kalachakra is the best venue, with almost 100,000 tibs present, to spread awareness on rangzen or otherwise and plan accordingly. it has been done so for so long by tyc and others including the dalai lama. if you cant see this then u must be sick to the bone.
Don’t follow the crowd – you may not like where they are headed.
Hi #39
If you guys have any plans to do something during Kalachakra, it is a very good choice of place and time. But.
In order to gain popular support what will be the:
1. Objective and message to be delivered.
2. Motivation- needs to be very clear.
3. Method: creative, fun and positive.
Please spend a lot of time on planning. If you can create a utube video that will be great.
Go on, let me hear more of it.
Dokpa
Tibetan Youth Congress President was kicked out from the Kalachakar venue in Washington D.C recently by the president of the organizer, owing to TYC’s displaying of Tibetan government in exile printed T.shirt. what has become of exile community. Why is that the Rangzen wala has become a outcast now? Why is that the mention or name of Tibetan government in exile is a crime to be expelled from public venue.
Lol Grangzen, 100,000 people there to attend and earn merit, they are there because they believed in the Dalai lama. I dont think you can succeed in this regard. Maliciously exploiting Kalachakra sacred place to your low end propaganda, will only earn demerit instead of merit. Oh yea, you brother Chung Rinpoche must be a fake rinpoche who have been deceiving neophytes or niaves foreigns with the title of RIPOCHE. I am absolutely astounded by the fact that he did not understand that every human being has an innate potential to be Buddha, without discrimination between god or devil, man or ghost. It is on this sacred thinking line and the fundamental of Buddhist tenets, HHDL espounded in Israel, and your FAKE CHUNG RINPOCHE criticized because it is not TRUE. lol….you are making a mockery of yourself, mentality, educational level, hahaha….I wish you did not mention the RINPOCHE for your title, at least you will save your face as well as his face. Now, it is crystal clear what level of rinpoche you are following…..
Cheer
NG
read the latest interview by TPR’s editors: http://www.tibetanpoliticalreview.com/articles/tprinterviewwithsamdhongrinpocheaddressesdevolutionnamechangemiddlewayandindiancitizenship
They have nail Samdhong Rinpoche to the ground. Our so Called Khewang was grilled with 4th of july barbecue at DC.
enjoy reading.
AGU
lol….in fact, Rinpoche explained very clearly. His explanations are based onr eality. I particularly liked his last part of the answer which is clearly aimed at those armchair revolutionaries who shoulder no responsibilites, but express express express…no action action action. If there is a better and alternative policy, then people will support it, until then, whatever people supports will stay on. Now it is time for armchair revolutionaries, come out of the comfort zone of the west, go to Dharamsala and have a feel how Dharamsala is facing multiple problems. Until then, amrchair critics are nothing more than a furt in the ocean.
Cheer
NG
The question here is about the priority between the post Dalai Lama years and the Tibetan struggle in the long run. The Dalai Lama’s decision to withdraw from politics cater to his post year scenario that China has been waiting for so long. However, Jamyang la’s article cater to the Tibetan freedom struggle in the long run. After all Jews won Isreal after more than thousand years in exile. Are we in a position to keep our issue alive for another thousand years without the Dalai Lama’s umbrella? My suggestion- to create another political party so that people are politically charged and remain active forever. No matter what is happening around us, we should be united in our thinking that we’re Tibetans and Tibet belongs to Tibetans.
Thank you # 44 for the suggestion to read the TPR interview with Sangdong Rinpochi.This is by far the clearest information in very simple and straight forward language from Rinpochi.I thought Sandong Rinpochi was very candid on the issues;though his answer to the last question was puzzling (?)!
I have always admired S.Rinpoche.These candid
no- nonsense answer were by far the best information one could get from their elected official.
I liked his last answer,will try to put that into practice.We all should…
I have been hearing for quite a number of years in exile about the need for another political party, although well intentioned, but nobody came up initiatives in this regard. Don’t wait for your government’s initiative, but put words into action. I never heard Tibetan leadership banned initiatives in this regard. During the past election, what did happen to rangzen candidate? Don’t tell me your candidate is banned.
Another issue is, amchair comparizon of Tibetans with Jews wihout any reality checks around the tiny Tibetan community. Tibetans in west will be totally assimilated into the pop culture of their birth and melted with people from different countries in next few decades. For them, issue of Tibet will be talk on the dinner table, not a mission handed down from ancestors. If you don’t believe it, then do a reality check at a Tibetan gathering, you will notice how the yound ones are linguisticalled assimilated and thanks to their parents in this regard by speaking to their children in their broken English. So next time, when you are shouting slogans of assimmilation of Tibetans in Tibet under duress, remember, your voluntary assimmilation in freedom.
Cheer
NG
#24 Radio Chamdo – only person so far bothered mention about ‘elections’. Smoke screens and mirrors, snakes & ladders; bark up wrong trees –business as usual? WHO KNOWS? Best to leave it in the bins of collective amnesia. Infant democracy.
“After all Jews won Isreal after more than thousand years in exile.”
WRONG! Jews were GIVEN Isreal. Go read about the Balfour Declaration.
@#44 Agu Tonpa,
Thanks for the link. This interview raises even more questions. One important question that should have been asked was why was all these changes brought in so hastily. Why were these “important” changes made to the Charter in such a short period of time.
You are right, Chinese Engineer,
Most Tibetans are like parrot who repeats or regurgitate what they guru say. Totally devoid of their own mind!!!! Blindly trust their gurus, even when buddha/ his holiness advises his followers to analyze or use their “Marvelous human intelligence”
Orthodox, naive and religious tibetan will not be able to broadened their horizon and engage in a progressive discourse.
Kalsang la,
Indeed.
The funny thing is that rinpoche blamed the Chithus and acted as if he had not role in selecting the name, “Driktsuk”
When TPR asked
TPR: But if one accepts the need to change from Tsenjol Bod Zhung to another option, why did the administration go so far as to use the word Driktsuk, which most people would translate as “organization” or “institution”, which sounds more like an NGO, rather than a more ambiguous word like “authority” for example?
SR: That you have to ask the legislative body. I was not the person to choose the substitute name or to fix what is now put into the Charter. We are on the executive and we have even no right to vote when the legislation is enacted.
OHoHoHoH!!!! I know that for amendment we should ask the lagislative body. But, TPR is asking you because Rinpoche was in the drafting committeee.
Re-read this statement by Kashag:
“Taking democratic rights as en excuse, these people, who do not have to shoulder any responsibilities and who are devoid of any principle and moral values, use their glib tongues to express their dissatisfaction. It is clear that these are aimed neither to improve the democratic culture nor for the welfare of society…
”TPR: I’m confused though. In a democracy, one key way of participating is through speech. What do you mean when you say that people should not be armchair revolutionaries but rather should participate?
SR: Speech alone is not participating in democracy. Speech must be combined by action. By action means, if you are not satisfied [with] the ongoing process, then one must come up with alternative processes, with alternative suggestions, and with alternative legislations. And everyone has the right to come up with those suggestions and with those actions. Without action, just enjoying one’s own comforts and only criticizing the other, criticizing alone is not participating in a democratic process. This is our view.
My question: In democracy, they will have 1000s opinions and alternative suggestions, would all of these turned into alternative lagislation?
Did you (Rinpoche) allowed or welcome different opinions, feedbacks and suggestions during or prior to the privatization of TGIE’s business?
Do you mean to say that if we don’t have alternative positive suggestion, we are not allowed to criticize the wrong doings/ shortcomings of your administration and labelled as, “Armchair revolutionaries”?
What kind of democracy we have?
Almost like chinese Democracy!!!!
Just as outsider criticized the works of SR, SR also has the right to criticized his opponents.
The only difference is SR is in Action, while the others are on pause mode.
Others criticise when their families r in the west and settle comfotably, beside work, sometimes get free time. They got nothing better to do. So take the time with a glass of berr and put their tongue in action. These people don’t even participate in local protest, their children barely able to speak Tibetan, they don’t even know where TIBET STARTS AND WHERE IT ENDS. They cannot take on China because they are chickens in front of CCP, their happiness lies in pulling down TGIE. Indeed, right comes with responsibility, those who r arguing for rights, but no responsibilities are like chickes, which sammrized by SR very well. These people gotno slightest respect from me.
NG
I always wonder if JN is trying too hard to live up to his reputation as being a polemist.
In the process, his hard hitting rationales are lost in the midst of his shenanigans. I
couldn’t quite fathom the last paragraph in the piece and it was nothing but a gibe which
is my point above. Elsewhere hinting if the Dalai Lama was not content. This is the
very reason why Tibetans in general are not receptive to his opinions. Over the years I
have developed admiration for JN for calling a spade a spade, and have bore the brunt
of the attack because of that. His is the only voice among us barring the inji khewas
who have looked at things on their own merits and not been swayed by any kind of
convictions which is something we are all guilty of. This is for those who tell me that
JN does nothing but stroke keys on his laptop from the comfort of his house at
Tennessee.
As for the recent events that transpired in Dharamsala that saw the Dalai Lama go into
retirement and with it the institution that dates back to the time of the Great 5th Dalai
Lama, after reading the piece, my initial reaction was one of confusion and
despondency. Akin to the lines from Second Coming, there is an apocalyptic ring to
our situation. It shook me out of the doldrums of my everyday life. Frankly speaking
whatever we in exile do, to me it seems like a kneejerk reaction, take for example all
these reponses flying back and forth with no real direction. I am not an exception. No
one is. JN has not faltered from his stand on complete independence to this date, and
will put forth arguments as to why his is the stance to embrace in the light that the
Middle way approach has made no significant inroads. In this piece, JN reasons that
whatever transpired in Dharamsala was to further bolster the Middle way policy some
convincing and some not so to the extent of being crude. JN is taunted as an armchair
reactionary; that his are mere words with no real action and to make matter worse open criticism of the Dalai Lama therefore Tibetans in general who are so deeply ingrained wants nothing to do with him. I would like to see JN tone down a little so that he can get his points across without flaring up emotions. May be Tibetans in general can see that it is indeed a “self-inflicted setback” in Prof. Sperling’s words.
Daveno,
What action are you talking about? Samdhong action is all about undemocratic. He is more of a commies and a power hungry monk— look at his centralized way of doing things…. All powers are vested with him. Dept. secretary are like the PEON.
My question to Samdhong is clear:
Did you (Rinpoche) allowed or welcome different opinions, feedbacks and suggestions during or prior to the privatization of TGIE’s business?
Do you mean to say that if we don’t have alternative positive suggestion, we are not allowed to criticize the wrong doings/ shortcomings of your administration and labelled as, “Armchair revolutionaries”?
New Generation:
Those who criticize our own government are patriot. We know and care about our people and government. Boe Shung Does not belong to you or Samdhong. After all, as saying goes, “Sha-tse Tam la Nyen-cha Med”
Criticism to Samdhong’s administration is not just exclusively coming from people in the west. 99% of the TGIE’s civil servants, the backbone of TGIE, hates him and his orthodox style of management. similarly, most of the teachers in tibetan school hates him as he says thing that was demoralising. Samdhong favors loyalty over performance.
If you don’t know there is a very high civil servant attrition rate that if it is a organisation or business, samdhong will be forced to resigned.
Who cares whether our children speaks Tibetan or not. After all, you guys are fine with surrendering everything to China. What do you make big deal of Tibetan language.
WE also protest on the street and i saw JN many times in the streetprotesting. But why do you make big deal? After all, Samdhong is the first katri who asked Tibetan not to protest against jaing Zemin during his last US tour. Today, thanks to Samdhong, even march 10th was restricted from having protest slogan. What a irony! And you are now criticise our goals
To Agu Tempa, “99% of the TGIE’s civil servants, the backbone of TGIE, hates him” I simply disagree with this one. I am a civil servant too. Please do a thorough survey and then write. I think you are improving your English with writing all this kind of rubbish things.
Our new Kalon Tripa Lobsang Sangay’s latest video at Asia Society
http://asiasociety.org/
It is not a time for criticisim or cynicisim but rather to put all our determination, self confidence to restore freedom and dignity of the tibetan people.
This article fails to discuss the merits and demerits regarding the change of our Government TITLE. And J.N and his supporters never considered problems posed by Indian government. Remember we are living India!
Therefore I considered this article nothing more than a cacophony of a disgruntled son of a KUDRAK.
Agu la!
Power hungry? Ama maoo! he didn’t ask or campaign for katri or whatever power there is within that position.He was ELECTED by the people,even for the second time and possibly elect him if allowed for the third time.
Closing down or getting rid of paljor business however he did it,the objection should come from chitue (your representative or indirectly you).Have you ask your chitue on this issue or ask them to investigate?
If you dont care about your own Language, then why bother for Rangzen.
TD la, When you castrate a man, do you think he needs to argue on “the merits and demerits” of having no balls?
#46 Tashila –
I get your point about Israel. It speaks of the SHEER TENACITY and PERSEVERENCE of a group of people. From their captivity in Egypt, their exodus through the wilderness and final return to their homeland – a 1000 years of history.
I used to hear of OUR predicament being compared to that of theirs.
In 1951 Ngapo Nawang Jigmey Sold our country to Communist by signing 17 agreement.(Communist are celebrating 60th year this year) Now we have this second Ngapo Jigmey (Samdhong Lama)who is trying to sell it again, while all the Tibetans inside and outside Tibet wants Independent of Tibet. Only few who are short sights or uneducated ones are following him. because, they don’t have knowledge of seeing the big pictures, only to follow others like puppet is best for their benefits. Do you think Tibetans dying in Kham and Amdo are asking for autonomous for Tibet or middleway? Wakeup guys! we all know they are dying for Independent. don’t just try to hide from the truth or cover it.
So, Do you guys know what is this middleway?
It accepts everything under PRC constitution.
Means; There is no Kham region and Amdo region. We are only accepting Utsang region as autonomous region from Communist regime. Although one fifth portion of Kham and Amdo is included by Communist chinese in autonomy (TAR) check the map of China and TAR region. You guys are missing bigger picture here.
Do some home work, you will find out what they are trying sell to Chinese. What ever you call them (Rincpoche or Khewang, but I call them all Traitor!
If you can’t restore Tibet independent, or if you can’t find a better way for independent, don’t sell on discount price, like made in china products. You could educate younger generations for future leaders, who could give us all Independent.
Don’t just think that you are the only leader. There are many mountains taller than this one.
hope you got it.
Don’t expect others to do the job for you.
Rangzen for Tibet only can be achieved through sacrificing one’s life. if you are afraid and can not give up your life for Rangzen, then shut up and getting back into your cocoon.
I’ve spent over 30 years in and around the Tibetan cause. I know for a fact many Injis are confused by the political developments in the Tibetan Diaspora and the unseemly brawls ripping the Exiles apart.
So, for my own understanding, I thought I’d ask some questions –
PART A. To summarize the very polemic positions within the Diaspora –
1. The MPPs (Middle Path Proponents) feel the Rangzen Wallahs are unrealistic ‘armchair revolutionaries’ who have no substantive strategy to gain independence. In the MPPs view, the Rangzen Wallah’s very existence and sentiments prevent the pursuit of the Middle Path because they provide China with an excuse not to reach a compromise with Dharamsala. They must be silenced, even if there is now a Tibetan ‘democracy’.
2. The Rangzen Wallahs are critical of the attempts to achieve the Middle Path as, aside from giving away what would seem the ‘logical’ or ‘emotive’ goal of forming a Tibetan nation, the ‘negotiations’ with China have been protracted and appear to have not yielded a single concession in the Tibetan favour, in fact the opposite. The ‘retirement’ of HH from the political fray and the ‘rebranding’ of the TGIE to an ‘administration’ are seen as constituting a form of surrender to China.
So, have I boiled down the two positions to their core elements?
PART B. In regard to the recent devolution of HH’s power and the ‘rebranding’ of the TGIE –
1. Does the title ‘Kalon Tripa’, widely used to refer to the democratically elected Tibetan ‘Prime Minister’ (of what was formerly the TGIE), actually mean something other than ‘Prime Minister’ in the Tibetan idiom? How can you have ‘Prime Minister’ of an ‘administration’? Or is this a recent role change post the elections? Was this ‘role change’ and ‘rebranding’ transparent and part of what was indeed voted upon?
2. If the TGIE is now an ‘administration’, led by a ‘Kalon Tripa’ – who is someone who is not a ‘Prime Minister’ – surely the next steps will be to ban the use of the Tibetan flag and the Tibetan National Anthem? Will these symbols of nationhood also be rebranded as an ‘administrative’ or perhaps ‘regional’ flag and perhaps a ‘folk’ or ‘regional’ song? Or perhaps eliminated all together?
My apologies if these appear to be idiot questions, but I’m a confused Inji … and I know there are others.
Tenzin, #61
Thats why, i said, 99% and you are part of that 1% who see Samdhong as GOD. I was a civil servant for more than you can count.
Daveno, #64
Don’t compare apple to oranges. Indeed, Samdhong is a elected person and nobody is disputing that fact. Power hungry comes from his micromanaging of the employees and his centralized way of making decision. Can you imagine, even appointment of cook at Dekyiling Office requires Katri Samdhong’s permission. Representative of settlement cannot spend more than Rs. 500 without prior permission from Katri through their respective kalons. I was imagining that Samdhong has nothing positive to do at his office.
Well, only work he seem to have to fight against Rangzen walas or his those who offer constructive criticism. He will leave no stone unturned to challenge, maimed and criticise vehemently as if rangzen walas are the real enemy. For them there kindness, middleway, and compassion cease to exist.
Please research….samdhong and the tibetan leadership show compassion, love, sense of bother or sisterhood only to the occupier and big bully while they are intolerant, angry, and mean spirited to their breathens who are struggling for Rangzen.
Anyway, coming back to point. Samdhong is power hungry in that sense.
REgarding privatization, Did i ask my Chithus??? yes, i did and i was not satisfied with their answers. So, i am taking the battle in my own hand. Let me tell you this… Privatization of TGIE business was initiated unlawfully without any parliament resolution. A bill wasn’t presented by samdhong and there wasn’t a law either in regards to this privatization. Since Samdhong was so famous, none of the cithus could challenge him in this regard.
Hey,
I mean what i said, when i said, “Who cares whether my children know Tibetan or not.” They will fight for rangzen and will write in english like you and I.
But, I speak, read, write Tibetan as fluent as Samdhong. I dare say that. But, thats no the point here. Rangzen is our birth right. Besides, when we ask for rangzen, we are not asking for me or my family. We are not important. Whether you speak Tibetan or resides in india or in the west we should all feel the injustice committed by the oppressor to our brethens in Tibet and not to gratify your own emotions. Without referendum, we should all assume that majority of Tibetans in Tibet wants Independence. After all, who doesn’t want Rangzen.
Anyway, I am happy samdhong is done. Thank god or Allah that proposal for unlimited tenure of Katri position wasn’t passed by the chithus. I must thank them.
Famous Saying:
Ngabo Ngar ne Chinsong
Chamdo Kye ne Lebsong.
Samdhong Ngar ne Lebsong
Boe-Shung Kye ne Chinsong.
Please Credit this the later stanza to Agu Tonpa. Thanks.
aku tonpa la. that’s a wonderful street song. now can you add few more stanzas about people who thump their chest declaring their love for HH but in practice making a mockery of HH’s heart’s desire for a democratic tibetan diaspora. Talk about armchair soldiers.
While I object to the giving up of goal of rangzen and the title “Tibetan Government in Exile” I am not particularly heart broken by the loss of the title “Gaden Phodrang Choglay Namgyal” since, if I am not mistaken, it suggests Gelugpa sect supremecy over the others. (I think I am a Gelugpa so please don’t go there.) Though Gelug was the theocratic power before 1959 we are democratic now.
The ponts you made in “Waiting For Mangrso I” make sense and are practically true. However, now a revolutionary change has taken place. The Dalai Lama has moved himself to aside to pave way for the birth of “Tibetan People’s Organisation”. Also he has separated the religion from politics, so to say. Now the path is clear. It is in the hands of Tibetan people. The term “Tibetan People” applies to all Tibetans, rather than to only exiled ones. The TPO is the entity of Tibetan people’s power and it connotes the Tibetan people’s revolutionary movement. So it is not as simple as you would have us to believe. In my opition it is wrong to say that “it is all over”. It is not over. Instead, the real show begins now.
@Confused Inji la,
You brought confusion to my understanding of the situation.
I will read again what middle way policy is all about to clear up my doubts.
Agu Tomjor!
If your Boeyig is as good as Samdong rinpoche la, you should not take that with you to grave,pass it on to bhoerig kids in your neighbourhood. i am sure you are doing this already…good job.
We can go on about SR la,since he is alive- you should ask him all your ?
Add the below to your song..
Agu tompa ngar ney lebsong
Turee tang-ney chingsong
#73 The Other Dawa,
Changing or removing Gandhen Phodang is alright. But taking out “Boe Shung” is not alright. They could have just left it as Boe shung Chok le Namgyal.
But, our new Kalon Tripa, Dr. Lobsang Sangay la said, he will propose changing the name to have atleast the word, Boe shung.
@ No. 69 Confused Inji
I don’t think you are confused at all. There are many MPPs who are confused; because they have strayed from the original path. I think you may be correct in your assessment of the trend towards banning of our national anthem and national flag altogether. Just wait and see.
Agu la, When did Lobsang Sangay said he will propose changing the name to have at least the word Boe shung? Could you give us a reference or a link?
http://asiasociety.org/video/policy/lobsang-sangay-new-pm-tibetans-exile-complete
Here is the link GN.
ngtuberclosis,
buddha nature belief(just a religious belief, no proofs by science)on hitler was expressed at the wrong place with the wronged people. u dont go begging door to door and expect donations by cursing the shiit out of the potential donors? there is neither wisdom nor bravery in it. but thats not the point here.
the point is lack of tolerance from our leadership to views that do not fit with their grand designs.
it’s riwoche, not rinpoche. do some research. dalai lama’s devolvement does not address the issue of religion-politics mixed govt. lets remove those 10 sectartian seats first. then we can sigh a relief.
lets request dalai lama and samdong lama to retire sincerely in their spiritual pursuits in some caves preferably tso pema.
infact it’s time samdong lama-the most cunning politician in the exile world- jumps into a lake.
blinded by his tsaway lama fanaticism he has repeatedly shut down free speech. how undemocratic he can get! if you dont join the govt that sucks the ccp’s dick then you are irresponsible and therefore you have no right to free speech is the “wise” n “FAIR” political attitude of your samdong lama?
Thank you JN la as always for writing this head scratching,nerve racking piece.I think you always do such a wonderful job of keeping mostly young, intelligent Tibetans busy and excited giving them some intellectual chicken soup to try.
I am a mother of two adult children who enjoy reading comments by these young people and take pride in how far we Tibetans have come.We still have so much more further to go to achieve our goal.Yes!single word “GOAL” for a phrase if you know what I mean.
Agu Tonpa #55 ,great question.I hope some one will answer it.
Agu Tonpa #70, great comments,shows many perspectives,great reading.But please try not to get too negative about any one.You seem to have much to offer to the readers.Please continue to write keeping intelligent,yet young and immature readers in mind.I love what you write.
Independent Fighter # 67 I think is a good argument.
Confused Inji #69,you are not so confused.Your genuine love and understanding for Tibet and the Tibetans make you concern for our future seeing what you see.Your concern for us touched my heart and I thank you.You have raised an extremely important point worth giving thoughts to and be concerned about.I hope to see genuine and sensible comments to read in days to come on your comment.
I have no respect, nor do i consider those as true tibetan calling H.H The Dalai Lama as just ‘Dalai lama’ or Samdhong rinpoche as just ‘Samdong’.
Opponents of Samdong Rinpoche la most of the time are unbelievably self-contradictory in their arguments,often confused,lack of courage and frustrated with their own inability to come up with a feasible plan of action,expressing hatred though towards SR la but meant for their own failure to act at the moment of happennings.
Gyaltsen Norbu #79
AT Washington DC, the night of July 13, 2011::: Lobsang Sangay said he will propose changing the name to have at least the word Boe shung.
Samdhong la (Satisfied Daveno?), was there too.
Daveno,
Don’t be Chicken Little. Whether one calls Samdhong or Zabtong, nothing’s gonna change/affect him. It’s in your fanatic mind that creates all these problems. Let it loose. Be a 21st century buddhist.
Remember on thing though: Samdhong la is our political leader and we have every rights to criticise him whether we have a plan or not. WE are a due paying tibetan citizen. All of those criticism has a solid supporting statement and not just rumors or hatred speeches.
Tibetan for Tibetans # 82
I’ll be mindful.
Yours AGU.
i request everyone who think themselves worth a dime and dabble occassionally in exile political essays to address our PM with the title DR( as ‘ Dr. LS) to improve his clout in the international stage. whether you like him or not, it is our PM, and we have to do our best to enhance his stature. you can criticise his policies, whatever, but don’t try to belittle him. He represents us all. just a random blurb. This may seem in insignificant thing, but it really do matters.
I know this is of little importance but I think it is CINDER-block, rather than cider-block near the end of the third paragraph.
A government changed into an institute or organization? Now we are members of Tibetan organization in exile, We are not citizens of Tibet.
Are we force to become Chinese citizens?
Lobsang Sangay is evidently become a director of Tibetan exile organization?
Now finally we all voted for a director, not PM of Tibetan Government in exile. How disappointed is that.
We keep to give up everything one by one, until China is fully satisfied and nothing left over to to called ours. disappointing and disappointed.
Choni la, just wait until our most illustrious leaders ans the
donkey parliament members (except for one) reason that we
cannot even sing our national anthem or fly our flag. Just watch
These same traitors on this board try to reason it out. They will
come a day they will even outdo Ngabo and encourage us to
sing the Chinese national anthem. A nation of cowards and traitors
is the legacy we leave behind for humanity. our children will be
ashamed to be call themselves Tibetans and marry ofher
knationalities coz who wants to marry spineless men.
reorganize and announce our governement in USA or get our government back from the old dectator.Wording here is just wasting your time and meaningless if you really care about Tibet and its government.
Are we entitled to call ourselve”Chinese expatriate”?
One major confusion among the Communist Chinese, Tibetans and people all over the world is that of HH the Dalai Lama’s role in the region’s politics, religious and people’s life. Tibetans and people all over the world think that His Holiness is the best negotiator and for that matter he is ready to make every kind of concession. However, China do not think that way. They consider His Holiness as the root source of Tibetan independence movement. Moreover, we should understand what is going on inside China. Are their system in a postion to digest our compromises?
Deveno, Lobsang Singay, our Prime Minister…hmm…our director? our driktsug big boss certainly thought so when he went to China on the visa. Sing Chinese national anthem for us. Those who believe in Middleway should learn the Chinese national anthem and sing it for us.
LMAO!
I was so so so so disappointed to see all these changes without throughly consideration as nation and it future and just gave it up for nothing.
I am a citizen of Tibet not a member of organization. Nobody can change that…..!
I* was farther disappointed read Kashag’s carlarification: http://bit.ly/o8YyJY
“A nation of cowards and traitors
is the legacy we leave behind for humanity.”
tough words from someone living in relative comfort in the west.
A movement is only as effective as the people running it, and to be quite honest, most of the posters here are worthless.
And you shouldn’t flatter yourself with the word “legacy”. There will be no such thing.
“Tibetans and people all over the world think that His Holiness is the best negotiator and for that matter he is ready to make every kind of concession. However, China do not think that way.”
And the Chinese are right in this regard. Dalai Lama personally spearhead the publicity drive that vaulted the Tibet issue into international limelight in the 80’s. And his position back then, and before that, has always had somewhat of a hardline tone to it. Even today, there is significant difference in opinion between the CCP and the TGIE over what exactly constitutes Tibet.
I’ve iterated this before: from a Chinese perspective, the difference between autonomy and independence is purely semantics.
True students of history will also remember some early proclamations from the then nascent CCP. Interestingly, Mao and Co. apparently did NOT recognize Tibet as a part of their version of China, and publicly stated that, if the Tibetans wanted to establish their own republic, the CCP should support such endeavors. But we all know what happened afterward.
“Are their system in a postion to digest our compromises?”
No system of government is totally insulated from the will of the governed. Unfortunately, the Chinese public, pre 2008, was always somewhat apathetic to the Tibetan “cause”. After the 2008 riot, things are a bit nasty. Essentially, don’t count on internal mass Chinese support for the next 5-10 years… if ever.
And to be frank, what compromises are there, exactly? To issue a compromise, you must first possess something to give. What cards do the TGIE hold? I have always been a bit baffled by slogans and whatnots containing the word “compromise” by the State side imbeciles of the Free Tibet crowd.
Dear All,
I can see that most of you have background in history, journalism, politics and acadamics. And, some are pure enthusiats.
On any platform when we discuss Tibets it becomes very very confusing. The more we discuss the more complicated it becomes.
His Holiness noted, ” What happened in the past, we can leave it to the historians, but what will happen in the future is a politcal matter” I totally agree with him on this point.
As Tibetans belonging to Tibet irrespective of name we have. Irrespective of what past we have. what ruler we have.
Is it possible to create a nation purely by the will of the people? Then, we don’t have to limited by labels we have.
If we can’t unite, exite and do something, there isn’t much use in debating over clauses, codes etc. I am sure there are out there people with resources, influences and connection please come up with some plan of action. I for one will support you.
Tibetans, we can do it. A brand new Egypt was created by the will of the people. Every day is a new opportunity, new hope.
Dokpa
Dokpa
“Another justification cited is that the financial support the exile administration receives from the EU, US Congress and other organizations would stop if exiles adopted the goal of Rangzen. These people are of course absolutely mistaken, and are just buying into a classic instance of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I won’t go into that now.”
when are you going to get into that? hopefully in Part II
“”And to be frank, what compromises are there, exactly? To issue a compromise, you must first possess something to give. What cards do the TGIE hold? I have always been a bit baffled by slogans and whatnots containing the word “compromise” by the State side imbeciles of the Free Tibet crowd.””
Chin engineer..Bhai sab!
May be you are overlooking the threats & forces resulting instability in the motherland kind of compromise.To become a part of country that killed your own grandfather and family members is a huge compromise :not resorting to 21st weapon of mass slaughter is a huge compromise. HHDL has till now been able to reassure his follower based on buddhist teachings…..who knows what will happen if China will not move,now that HHDL has resigned from political leadership.
Don’t waste your time, lets be practical. Only solution is through DOING !!! Politics and Dialogues will not work with China.
Stop Meow..Meow..Meow
Stop negativity
Stop Spreading hopelessness
Stop blamming
Stop digging up rubbish
Lets start from a fresh page.
Whats the plan, I wanted to know.
Whats the action we want to take.
Whats the sacrifice we are willing to make.
There is no dream that cannot be dreamt. whats your dream ??????
Dokpa
@94, Chinese Engineer,
You tend to write only of what you see as the “practical” realities of Tibet’s situation, but I am curious as to how you see the moral dimension of it. You noted Mao’s early position that the Tibetans could have their own republic if they wanted it (he, in fact, once commented that some Tibetans were the first foreigners to help his forces during the Long March, thus admitting that he knew he wasn’t in China when among the Tibetans.) Do the Tibetan people have the same right to determine their own future that the Chinese or American people have, or not? And if not, why not?
Chinese engineer #94 I agree with you,that,”A movement is as good as people running it”,but,what I do not agree with you is latter part of the phrase saying,” and to be quite honest,most of the posters here are worthless”.Because,you see,if they were,like you have said, they wouldn’t have caught your sight and bothered you,and you would definitely not have mentioned it here. Imbeciles? and Tibetans?…You do see where His Holiness The Dalai Lama; a nation less leader in exile ranks among some of the well,in fact most well respected world leaders.You can only imagine,if China could understand Him like and as He is,along with your economy boom,your social status in the international community would too.I wouldn’t say the word imbecile fits the descriptions of the Chinese leaders,nor would I use it back on you.We are grown ups.
Chinese Engineer,you realize that Tibet’s history did not take its birth with coming of CCP to Tibet.You seem like some one who knows some thing.(I know,I know! Do not try to belittle me for I know my short comings well.We Tibetans know where we fall short too well.)But, you just have to be honest and study the true history about both Tibet and China.Then see,if there is possible middle ground some where we can work on.
Among us Tibetans,there are the people who would not settle for less than Tibetan “independence”, then there those who follow the “Middle Way Path”,still others who may or may not mind being part of China.But first we do want China to acknowledge the truth that Tibet was an independent nation in the past.Then may be,we can leave past behind,and discuss about the future on clean slate. But if your leaders are constantly going to call world renowned leader like His Holiness the Dalai Lama names,does that make your leaders look better in the eyes of the world communities.I do not believe it.We who blog here,if we can not do something constructive,the least we can do is not be the cause for further damage between the two troubled countries.
But I think it is good to be talking to each other.Let us try not to bog down each other simply because we can not contain our own anger.Hope to continue talking with you in the future.
“not resorting to 21st weapon of mass slaughter is a huge compromise.”
I’m sorry, but are you insinuating that Tibetans have WMDs? Because if that were the case, then the TGIE might have a few cards to play…but you don’t. You tried in the 50’s to reassert your independence with CIA and Indian support. How did that go? I’m certain the 54th Ind. Regiment, which recently got upgrade to Brigade status, is more than willing to test their new organization prowess on a few ill equipped and ill trained irregulars. When Tibet resides within the internationally recognized borders of the PRC, you know you have few, if any, cards to play.
“Do the Tibetan people have the same right to determine their own future that the Chinese or American people have, or not? And if not, why not?”
Self determination is never a right. It’s a privilege born from ability. No amount of international law can say otherwise. Instead of preaching Realpolitk here, I’ll simply let history speak:
“Vae Victis”
“The first casualty of War is Truth”
To #100
When I refer to the Free Tibet imbeciles, I generally mean the young liberal arts students and shriveled hippies who wear a Free Tibet! shirt or drives a car with a Tibetan flag bumper sticker plastered on the back. You ask them to point out where Tibet is, and they’ll just stare at you with empty eyes and spout some none sense about freedom and whatnot. A large percentage of demonstrators also exhibit the same sign. So if you’re not included in the aforementioned categories, do not trouble yourself.
On the top of respect for the Dalai Lama…
Respect unfortunately counts for very little when it comes to hard politics, which is the medium in which disputes are settled. Ultimately, your position at the negotiation table comes down to your opposite number’s PERCEPTION of what you’re capable of, and the CCP’s view on TGIE’s ability to conduct a “hard struggle” aka armed insurgency campaign, is very limited.
I am loath to throw quotes around, but let me finish by saying that
“it’s better to be feared than to be loved”.
In fact, I think Machiavelli’s book might be a good investment in time for most posters here.
Chinese Engineer: “Tt’s better to be feared than to be loved”? This is a curious quote and very short term thinking. Down in history, ask the German people if they prefer to be feared as Nazis or loved as democrats. How would you and your entire nation prefer to be remembered: as ruthless bastards or as enlightened humanists? What kind of legacy do you plan for your kids…?
The difference, friend, is that the Germans lost both wars.
So Chinese Engineer you basically advised ‘Machiavellianism’ – becoz it would be the antithesis of what HHDL stands for? Hmmm …..Reverse Psychology………
There is no mistaking the Bitterness and even Resentment that shows through your ‘shout down’ of the ‘RESPECT’ that HHDL and Tibetans have managed to garner for themselves against ALL ODDS; and I’ll repeat that again AGAINST ALL ODDS!
Tsk! Tsk! Why are you so mad?
Chinese Engineer: Well, I would easily compare Nazi Germany to Totalitarian China. There was a time too when Germany was strong, when its economy was booming and when its government was fueling nationalism and hate to promote its economical strength. I’m sure at that time no one would thought that it could collapse so suddenly. But let me ask again my question: What kind of legacy have you in store for your kids…?
The “Free Tibet Imbeciles” are no more imbecilic than the armies of brainwashed, rabidly nationalistic chinese students mobilised by a regime that slaughters its own people to stay in power.
Both offer no value or credit to their respective causes.
#104
Reverse psychology? please. The fact of the matter is that no one got ahead by turning the other cheek. Tell me, after 3 decades of none violent protest, how far exactly has the Free Tibet movement come? If you want to see some real example of AGAINST ALL ODDS, study the Chinese nuclear program.
Also, I ain’t even upset, bro.
#105
People make that comparison out of ignorance, and I’m in no mood today to impart wisdom. If China suffers the same type of collapse it did in the very early 1900’s, then obviously that would be the ideal time to exercise your….aspirations for statehood. Of course a smart man would try to prevent such collapse, and what better way to do it then to make it costly for those who would otherwise benefit from it? As far as legacy goes, well, that’s a question for people who have too much time on their hands. There are problems, objectives, and solutions, then there are unproductive LibArt musing. I do not deal in the last.
#106
Truer words have not been spoken on this blog…except maybe the ones I utter from time to time. 🙂
Chinese Engineer: reading that “Nazi-China is a comparison out of ignorance” and that “legacy is for people who have too much time on their hands” makes me feel pain for you guys. Your myopia is proportional to the size of your country and of your ego. You are desperately uninviting.
#103 CE la, “The difference, friend, is that the Germans lost both wars”
Very obvious retort: the CCP have not “won” yet… the ball is still in play.
#102, Gyaltsen la, “Down in history, ask the German people if they prefer to be feared as Nazis or loved as democrats”
Historical fact: Only 34% of Germans voted for the Nazi Party at the height of the Nazi’s electorial power. I wonder how many chinese would vote for the CCP if they had the chance of a genuine democratic vote?
Chinese Engineer:So,you would rather be controlled by the powerful few,rather than have mind of your own with freedom to express.Your thoughts expressed here reminds me of the English movie “The Mummy”.Those zombies!!!Have you seen the movie?The humans were at first petrified by them.At the end…?But,I would not wish evil destruction,not even for my enemies.Why would I,if I do not wish one for myself.And that’s the stark difference between you and us.
By the way,2016 is a predicted super power ownership for China by some.Do you seriously think this world would welcome China’s oppressive, depressive, heartless arrogant regime for a world super power.Arrogance is a very self-destructive proposition my friend.How quickly you forgot what it was to be hungry and starving.
Yes!!! we much rather be loved and be powerful(even without the nation)than be hated by billions.Tibet and the Tibetans:the land of love and its people are messengers of love to billions, balm to sooth sad and sorry hearts.Power in the hands of handful mean leaders,while the rest live a life of fear.If that’s what you want; my dear friend,you have one already.Good for you.
You seem to say,you have wisdom you are holding back.Wisdom and knowledge are to impart and not to hold back for that is silly thing to do.Do impart your wisdom,so we may learn.By the way wisdom has always something to do with goodness and kindness,and constructive and not destructive nor hurtful.Make sure you do not put some decent Chinese people to shame.
By the way, Chinese Engineer,do you have a problem addressing me, by my pen name? If so,Why?
Chinese Engineer, that post is pretty impressive. I agree with you in most part except your perspective on the 2008 Olympic protest. Most CHinese looked very wide eyed and hurt and say “why now? you could protest anytime but not when we are having this important occassion.” If you have any humanity inside you you will understand that it is about survival of a race against a successful nation (perpetrator of injustuce) having one more party. The moment of Olympic 2008 was an important moment for Tibetans to make the Tibetan situation gain publicity and support. It is not because we hate the Chinese so much that we we dont’ want them to have any fun. You should not take it so personally.
Otherwise, I really am impressed by the rest of your comments.
I am referring only to the post 34.
Af for your
“Truer words have not been spoken on this blog…except maybe the ones I utter from time to time.”
Don’t get too smug. You are intelligent but at heart you are very much a cynical red guard progeny type.
#113
I’m not sure if I should apologize for my attempt at humor, or you should apologize for a lack of reading comprehension on your part.
To err on the side of caution;
I was clearly joking. But if my humor didn’t penetrate, mea culpa.
“not resorting to 21st weapon of mass slaughter is a huge compromise.”
I’m sorry, but are you insinuating that Tibetans have WMDs? Because if that were the case, then the TGIE might have a few cards to play…but you don’t. You tried in the 50′s to reassert your independence with CIA and Indian support. How did that go? I’m certain the 54th Ind. Regiment, which recently got upgrade to Brigade status, is more than willing to test their new organization prowess on a few ill equipped and ill trained irregulars. When Tibet resides within the internationally recognized borders of the PRC, you know you have few, if any, cards to play.””
Chin Engineer, Are you in your 60’s that you need to refer to the time of Regiment or organized military forces.Dude, we are in 21st century and a nation does not need to declare ownership of WMD nor need to own wmd.Nation with educated population can do anything they have the will to do.You are just a book smart dude!
“.Dude, we are in 21st century and a nation does not need to declare ownership of WMD nor need to own wmd.”
You’re a moron.
“You’re a moron”.
Han’s ego can be that large and big! ehh!
#14 I read what I see. Perhaps I should apologise for not being clairvoyant.
BTW, I think am trying to be funny here.
I see you succeeded in drawing away the discussion from the topic at hand!
Shucks. It was meant to be #114.
Everyone.
I admitted of your concern and policy of future Tibet, different view on different topics but anyhow i am absolutely against the policy of breaking the unity of Tibet whether its about politics or religious, because unity is the premiere key of Tibet future, lets we talk less and work more on friendship.
I think better this way.
how can anyone talk about Unity when one wants to go east and the other wants to go west?
Chinese Engineer: Don’t think about the Tibet issue as a fight that will end with his holiness. Think in terms of 100-500 years of struggle to free a nation. In that time, I am sure the weapons of destruction will be available for few determined folks. The future China will inherit the pains of your present hegemony and your children will have to pay for it. May I be born a thousang times to end the colonization of my people.
Well, if that’s the case, enjoy dying. Over and over and over.
When the hammer really comes down, you’ll know what true oppression is.
By the way 121, it’s pretty obvious that you don’t have a technical background nor any understanding of strategic weapons, so let’s not try to extend your meager reasoning skills to this topic; it makes you look like a much bigger idiot than you already are. Please leave strategic planning to people who have two braincells to rub together.
newgenerationtb #44, you are absolutely correct on tibetan in West, slowly yet noticeably through naked eyes been assimilated into others culture,language and even physical appearances.
How would we be able to carry on this peaceful fight when we have no one left to carry on at the time of third generation tibetan in the West.
The symptoms are visibly there and treatments are also there in our hand.
Middle way OR Free Tibet – IN a Non violence way is ‘turning the other cheek’.
Using weapons – strategic or otherwise is ‘dying over and over again’ – a nightmare oppression.
Chinese Engineer bro – you seem to have invested time and effort on this blog – So what would your ‘strategy’ be?
Hi all,
Patient Name: Tibet
Doctor’s Name: Tibetan youths
Diagonosis: Loss of Homeland, Destitute, scattered feeling with no objective in sight, hallusination ” If I take of my family, all my life’s problem will be solved”
Medication: Violence ? Middle way path ? Local remedies?
Intervention: Doctor to implement or administer the medications.
Prognosis: Freedom or Autonomous regions within few years if the Doctor implements the remedies with unity and with intensity. Action !!!!
Dopka
#122 “Chinese Engineer”
If you are as you represent in fact chinese, and if you are in fact as you represent so highly possessed of the military and nuclear knowledge you mention so frequently in your postings, if your contempt towards the Tibetan people is representative of the propagandised view of most mainland chinese (and I believe it is), then your contemptuous, abusive, narcissistic and psychotic rantings underline your colonialist’s mindset towards the Tibetan people and the unjust nature of the PRC’s occupation of Tibet. Your gleefully presented attitude underlines how badly the Tibetan people, who face colonial overseers like you every day, must be suffering under the occupation. Your abusive rantings reveal much of your mental state and underline what a lonely, unloved and sick little puppy you must be – and how Regimes based on political thuggery use damaged goods like you as their loyal foot soldiers and agents.
I’m sorry radiohead, but I can’t seem to quite make out what you’re trying to say over the sound of your blatant stupidity.
And now I shall attempt a proper response.
I am, first and foremost, not an idiot. I also have no emotional attachments to the Tibet issue. This obviously allows me to take a perspective different from those who take up this issue based on emotion and propaganda, not to mention a severe lack of analytical capability. Yes, I said propaganda. Nothing is ever in black and white, and there certainly has been quite a bit of historical revisionism and false accounting on the part of the Tibetans in exile. Obviously this happens with the Chinese side too, but let’s just say that the TGIE isn’t exactly a bastion of truth.
Second, I don’t hate the Tibetan people. I think that the average measure of Man between the various ethnicities is close enough that it causes racial prejudice to be somewhat unproductive, and productivity, like money, is something you can never have enough of. I hate idiots. More precisely, I hate idiots who do not realize that they are idiots (which, ironically, is why most idiots are idiots). What I hate more are unproductive idiots who cannot even bring their meager talents to bear on some worthwhile task. In essence, I have just described a large percentage of Tibetans IN EXILE, because, let’s face it, your track record at advancing your goal hasn’t been great, and you have no one to blame but yourself.
Let’s take a look at what you people do. You shout for action, you scream for rights, but you live in comfort in the West. Some of you probably take government handouts too, and would never say no to a fat check from NED. But what have you actually accomplished? Practically nothing.
I am an engineer with an advanced degree. I solve technical problems that deliver value to the consumer. I pay my taxes on time, I donate to my alma mater, and no check of mine has ever bounced. That’s how I measure my productivity.
Tell me, radio chamdo, what exactly do you do, and how do you contribute to society?
So in short, while I have no overt negative feelings towards Tibetans, I do, from time to time, hope all the Free Tibet imbeciles would just take up arm, storm Tibet, and win the Darwin Award.
“So what would your ‘strategy’ be?”
It depends on what you perceive as the likely scenario, and your effort/time frame limits.
Scenario 1) Chinese does not collapse in the short to medium term, and your time frame will expire in the mean time. If this is the case, then you cut a deal anyway you can. Up to and including mass civil disturbance in Tibet to try to force CCP’s hand. I have always believed that the current generation of leaders, not to mention their successors, are soft. They can stomach throwing a few trouble makers into Lao Gai, but I doubt they would be harsh on mass civil disturbances. A hardline leadership would have let the blood flow in Tibet back in 2008, and Xin Jiang more recently. Instead, it’s curfews in Lhasa, and a few Han Chinese got shot to death by Public Security when they gathered for a reprisal attack.
Scenario 2) China collapses within your time frame. If this is the case, then you need to bide your time and prepare for some serious disturbances, because it’s about to get bloody. I can’t even begin to lay out all the possible outcomes, but this could go either way. If a fiercely nationalist movement takes the rein, say goodbye to Tibet. If a western supported “democracy” movement takes control, then you have a shot.
But since no one can predict the future, I personally think that the best option is to keep the issue alive and wait for your opportunity. Anything drastic and you risk upsetting some very delicate balances.
#128
Bait taken.
I’m not Tibetan. I work in medical sciences. I help people. I do charitable work.
The content of your two responses just proved my suspicions. You are a self-centred narcissist, probably bipolar, obviously very unfulfilled. You lack empathy and have an intense need to hate and belittle, especially those you perceive as weak in some way. In short, you are a pathological bully, probably due to being abused or ill treated as a child. I doubt that you are in any form of intimate relationship, nor could you maintain one. You are culturally isolated and probably almost, if not totally, friendless.
Normally I feel sorry for people like you.
Go and get treatment.
END OF CONSULTATION
“”But since no one can predict the future, I personally think that the best option is to keep the issue alive and wait for your opportunity. Anything drastic and you risk upsetting some very delicate balances.””
“”Let’s take a look at what you people do. You shout for action, you scream for rights, but you live in comfort in the West. Some of you probably take government handouts too, and would never say no to a fat check from NED. But what have you actually accomplished? Practically nothing.””
Keep the issue alive,wait for opportunity and than acheive nothing. Where are we going?
The exchange between Chinese Engineer and others are the most entertaining on this board.
While the CE appears to be arrogant, he has far better grasp on reality. If you take out the portions of this posts where he is not bashing people, most of the points which he provides are actually valid (see post #129) and hard to argue against.
It’s not surprising then that the replies to the CE are mostly personal attacks, and of course ignoring other points which the Chinese Engineer has brought up. Given the way CE trolls he deserve to be bashed, but it’s disappointing to see that no one has offered good counterpoints to CE’s arguments.
OKAY – Chinese Engineer Bro;
We agree that we should keep the issue alive.
By ALL manners of expressions by ALL ages of the populace.
Protests on the streets and Shouting for our Rights are a reminder to the world. If it gets to your sensibilities then it is doing the work.
In Scenario 2) You can include the other minorities: Uyghurs, Hui, Mongols, Kazakhs and the list goes on and on.
Just like you – EACH one of us here on this blog is a productive individual – who ‘delivers value to the consumer/ client 9-5 plus; pays all the VARIOUS taxes on time; contributes to our social, religious, political causes and then SOME. Isn’t that a given? It’s NO BIG DEAL bro……
But the comparison with the productivity from one’s daily livelihood with that of attaining a NATION goal ends here….it’s idiotic.
Also by suggesting US read ‘Machiavelli’s book; your assumption of Tibetans as naïve and simple is also very uneducated. In Tibetan Buddhist psychology most of his philosophical theory and attitudes would probably fall under the ‘Neurotic Buddha family’. I am not kidding.
An important addendum to my ‘poster’.
Darwin Award?
The very reason that the leadership of TGIE is advocating ‘Non Violence’.
It’s gettin’ interesting. CE raises some interesting points. For example I think the best hope for Tibet is Western intervention rather than expecting Chinese to become enlightened so soon. It’s not like when Gandhi was able to embarrass the English. Would any Tibetan survive if they start doing satyagrah in Tibet? But what RC says is true that CE is egotistical and lacks empathy for fellow humans. Lack of empathy is a sad state to be in for a human. Even a chimpanzee, or a boa constrictor can do some useful chore it can call productive and contricbute monetarily to society. There are lots in the zoo that are entertaining people and raking in money.
Also Tibetans in the west are also paying taxes. There are Tibetan doctors and engineers. If you consider that a big deal. And percentage wise there are lot more Chinese embiciles and parasites of society (twisting every which way) trying to get out of having to pay tax.
Anway, I didn’t come here to be negative but when you step on goo
some of it gets on your shoe.
chinese engineer: I did not mention the second part of my prayer which is that you be born as a Tibetan and put to treated like a second class citizen. I mean if there is karma, that should be the most logical way it should work. hahaha
Wide off the mark nurse. Wide off the mark. But since we are indulging in speculative ad hominems here, let me offer my prescription for you.
You are, first and foremost, a self righteous idiot. Root cause is probably some middle class hippie upbringing or copious amounts of mutual intellectual masturbation during your formative LibArt undergrad years. Either way, the symptoms are clear, and the disease is more or less terminal.
Incidentally, your first exposure to the Tibet issue was during one of these Free Tibet events at your college, and you almost immediately started drink from that bucket of koolaid. Now you browse social issues from time to time to validate yourself to both you and your peers, but you aren’t really truly attached to any issue, and can’t really ever come to accept something that doesn’t fit with your pathetic world view. Your impression of anything that runs counter to your position is “oh that’s evil and lack empathy”.
But fret not friend, the world is full of idiots like you, so you’ll never be short on potential friends.
#133
“Just like you – EACH one of us here on this blog is a productive individual – who ‘delivers value to the consumer/ client 9-5 plus; pays all the VARIOUS taxes on time; contributes to our social, religious, political causes and then SOME. Isn’t that a given? It’s NO BIG DEAL bro……”
Actually unemployment rate in exile communities is extremely high. I have never seen surveys for the exiles state side, but unemployment rate for the communities in India and, if I recall, Nepal, sometimes reach 75%. I’m actually curious about detailed demographic surveys for exiles state side, but I doubt this is the place to ask.
“But the comparison with the productivity from one’s daily livelihood with that of attaining a NATION goal ends here….it’s idiotic.”
this is where you are COMPLETELY wrong. If that were the case, why do people place such high emphasis on metrics such as productivity per capita? The reason is that it matters. An uncompetitive labor pool begets an uncompetitive nation.
“If it gets to your sensibilities then it is doing the work.”
This is a FATAL mistake. My sensibilities do not affect PRC policy in Tibet. Let’s put it this way. The Free Tibet crowd has, in my opinion, always played their PR cards very well in the west. Concerts, marches, you name it. I think they perform well for a “grass root” movement, although that status is more or less an illusion. But how has this changed PRC’s policy in Tibet? That was a rhetorical question; it hasn’t changed PRC’s policy in Tibet, at least not to a significant degree. So I would argue that your are targeting the wrong audience with your efforts, if I were to judge the movement on a …performance metric. An argument like this is obviously too crude for a situation as complex as an independence movement, but I think it contains some questions you should think about.
#135
“It’s not like when Gandhi was able to embarrass the English.”
I recommend that when dealing with historical matters, you don’t try to project your OPINION as FACT.
Gandhi had an armed insurgency program. Do you? To briefly go over the differences: The Indian Independence movement had the benefit of organization and resources. Armed elements were drawn from the veterans of the British Indian Army. Bureaucratic support is abundant in the form of British Raj employees. Gandhi had the benefit of the “Good Cop” role in contrast of Chandra Bose. Let’s not mention that Britain was half a world away and had probably less than 1/10 of the Indian population. TGIE benefits from none of these.
In short, the Indians did far more than just embarrassing the British, and one cannot casually draw a parallel between the two movements.
“rather than expecting Chinese to become enlightened so soon.”
Interestingly I find this extremely offensive…or offensively stupid. How can you claim that giving away a quarter to a third of your territory, including your country’s major fresh water source and rich rare earth/uranium deposits for next to nothing is anything close to enlightenment? Let’s not mention the fact that the recipient will most likely be a hostile nation sitting next to your least defended border. That is the height of stupidity, and somehow, it’s enlightenment to you. Is that intellectual dishonesty or just straightforward lack of critical thinking skill?
Hey Chinese Engineer,
Pls tell your camrade not to kill us anymore. We surrendered already. WE were not seeking independence and now as you (chinese govt) wishes we are not calling TGIE but an exile organization. We are officially banned from protesting against chinese dignitaries.
Today, we are just seeking GENUINE AUTONOMY. May be tomorrow, if you wish we will just seek autonomy with chinese characters. WE are COMPASSIONATE AND EVER SMILING PEOPLE! PEACE!
But what we can’t tolerate is demand of those people like JN, the rangzenwalas who are more dangerous than CCCP and shugdhen followers. IF WE HAVE TROOPS LIKE CCCP, WE WOULD SEND THEM AND KILL THOSE PEOPLE.
TGIE APPRECIATES BABA PHUNTSOK WANGYAL AND NGABO JIGME FOR THEIR GUIDANCE TO BE PART OF CHINA.
YOURS AGU.
hey Jamyang la, you have gone too far with your most biased hypocrisy. this time nobody agrees with you any more, you are really try to mislead innocents..
hey.. we tolerate no more,, we follow you no more..
may be you earns a lot by writing these cos you are getting paid for writing by our counter part.But we are tried of your hypocrisy and work of no practice..
Pontsang: Who is this “we” you are referring to? The same “We” of the Dalai Lama’s when he says “We are very much looking forward to be part of China”?
Sorry it was a misquote. What the Dalai Lama said is: “We are very much happy to remain within the People’s Republic of China”. Personally, I’m not part of this “we”…
Hi Tibs,
There are lots of post from illeterate brainwashed Chinese. They will bring some pseudo sense and some historical codes and pieces.
Tibs, we do not have to engage in any of these time wasting debates. If we win the debate, will Tibet be returned to us? Nooooooooooo
Tibet will be ours as a result of our own actions. China is just try to “right a wrong” of history. They are ones who up hold “if you repeat a lie 1000 times, it will become truth” all these are in parallel to their methods of torture they use on tibetans.
So, there is no point in debating about Tibet. If we want we can creat a Tibet just from our will.
Dokpa
#137 The Britist colonist were aware of the fact that they were doing something wrong. There was a large group of British leaders as well as common people who were for Britain pulling out of India. It was not just for fear of armed Indians. The British had enough sophisticated arms to repeat the Jallawalla episods over and over. But conscience would not allow them to carry on.
On the other hand, you knowing that Mao had considered helping TIbetans run their own country at one point would not think it an enlightened act to pull out. Sometimes you act you are detached from this whole affair of chinese occupation of Tibet and show contempt for our inability to fight against China. At other times you act like a red guard, all fangs and claw defending China’s action. And ultimately all you care most is the material value of the resources in TIbet but not the feeling of the people in the region and the condition they are reduced to live in the 21st century. That is what is wrong with you people. British were embarrassable. You care only of material benefits. Although you write cleverly do not assume that people wil be fooled by you.
It’s possible you are not even Chinese but someone married to a Chinese. I say that because most Chinese cannot restrain themselves like you do when defending China’s acts in other countries.
#139 Hello, Let us support each other in practising this democracy thing. Any public figure in a democratic nation is not above criticism. It’s possible JN loves HH more than you do. So don’t negate all the good things he does for our society because your senses are offended for some religious reason. Even the Buddha encouraged that sort of thing. Why do you think serene Tibetan monks turn very animated when they debate under the shades of trees? They don’t sound very pleased with each other when they were arguing. But that sort of thing serves to enrich our critical thinking power.
Let’s not Talibanise this tolerant faith called Buddhism.
no wonder we’re being labelled idiots.
“the Britist colonist were aware of the fact that they were doing something wrong.”
THEN WHY DID THEY DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHY DID INDIA REMAIN THE CROWN JEWEL OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE FOR ALMOST A CENTURY? DID THE BRITS SUDDENLY HAVE A COLLECTIVE CHANGE OF HEART AND SAY “OH LOOK AT THESE POOR BROWN PEOPLE. THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY”?
OF COURSE NOT. BRITAIN JUST EMERGED FROM THE DEVASTATION THAT WAS WWII, THEY FELT THE UNDENIABLE SYMPTOMS OF IMPERIAL OVER REACH, AND THEIR MAJOR BENEFACTOR, THE UNITED STATES, HAD A PUBLICLY PRONOUNCED POLICY OF PROMOTING SELF DETERMINATION IN COLONIAL TERRITORIES.
IN OTHER WORDS, THEY LEFT BECAUSE KEEPING ALL THE BROWNIES DOWN WAS GETTING TOO EXPENSIVE.
If you can’t get your head out of your ass and acknowledge the fact that States act in their national interest, and profit is always an interest, you really shouldn’t talk geopolitics, much less debate with someone like me.
Please calm done and act your age. And read your history books more closely. It was East India Company, a private entity, that was in India (along with those from few other nations) before the British government took control in India.
And yes, some people are not aware of what’s happening to others until the others begin to protest. Upon hearing that protest some are capable of collective or singular change of heart while others are not. States do act in their interests and they well should. But when they act in their interest at the expense of other people’s rights that state is committing robbery. There are not many robbers of that color left in the 21st century.
@143 Dokpa, you made some good points.Any comments from the other side should be critically studied and some could be of benefit to us.But arrogant comments should be dealth with appropiately.I read “Buddhist scholar are always winnder of debate”
We tibetan should only work towards those objectives that will benefit us now and for generations to come.
#147
Okay I see I made a mistake there. I thought I saw “centuries” and not “almost a century.” I concede on that stupid mistake but not on the substance of the argument.
Hi Daveno,
First, I don’t know from where you pulled that code from.
Second, since my college times I have been with TYC, proving to the world that Tibet is separate historically etc. In the west, I have been talking with Chinese and these people deal with political issue like any other bussiness issues. Reason and logic has no room, they just twist facts and pick and choose the points they want. This is no desire to find the truth, they just want to win out of sheer arrogance.
Yes, there is room to debate internal political matters within Tibetans. Although I could contribute in this section, I choose not to as it could easily be used for advantage by the chinese when it is exposed to such open forum. I read those debates back and forth. Most of them are serious accusations which can never be substantiated. Ofcourse, peopel have the right but what about the other side? We are going into very difficult terrain when we question people’s motivation.
At our disposal is our desire and our will to do something. We may use history as a reference, but its not necessary. We could create a brand new Tibet by our sheer will.
Complicated debate will delay our goal. And, now adays with the current Chinese global influence in economics and the bad shape we find of US and EU. China is at the peak of arrogance. They will write the history the way they want.
What is the power of opinion of you and I?
Our power lies in action because they don’t have control of our will.
Sorry, If I went longer than I should.
Dokpa
I think we all might want to read this from Observer Sunday-30-2011: China will implode if it doesn’t change its authoritarian ways.And I strongly believe in it.Every peak has a fall !
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/31/will-hutton-china-must-change?INTCMP=SRCH
Hutton is a fucking imbecile. Accountability does not equate to pluralism. Every single two bit western commentator essentially makes the same mistake everytime shit like this happens in China, be it Tiananmen or the earthquake or this massive train crash.
Yes, shit happened. Yes, some government organ failed miserably, and a lot of CCP members deserve to be dragged out the back and shot like the dogs they are, but there has never been a serious challenge to the type of government that the CCP runs. Anger in the Chinese public domain has always been over accountability, not democracy.
I hope a lot of heads at the Railroad Ministry roll over this incident.
Also, let me offer a contrarian argument: China will fracture if the CCP does not act with enough authority and force, in effect repeating the mistakes by Gorbachev.
To Chinese engineer,
You reek of arrogance, are so bereft of empathy and humility. I would not be having this conversation with you because I don’t think I can talk sense to you but I can’t stand your condescending remarks towards us. I see that beneath a masquerade of an intellect, a well-reasoned man, you are taking potshots at us and belittling us with your every argument. You pride on being an engineer, not just some ordinary but advanced and solving problems. What you said speaks volume of you. I see where your self-aggrandizement stems from. The government you so proudly defend. For you, our plight is a problem for which you possesses the strategies to solve, just a mere problem. Take off that veil. You ask as to what we do and what we have contributed to our society as if we have failed miserably. And my appeal to all those responding here. Rather than engaging in pointless debate and in some case even inciting rift within our community (some of them unknowingly I suppose), why not talk about what have we achieved against all odds? Let me tell Chinese engineer, as much as you may pride on being a successful engineer, I think a little introspection would do you so much good. Ruminate on how you came about being one. And hope there you will find the answer.
Dokpa, Nice one!
Rigzin, I think CE is like that to everybody else. It’s hard to know where he comes from. Bit scary about his comment about people needing to be shot for the train wreck.
It’s possible his parents sent him to a goood school by giving up their lives to picking cans on the streets of NY and beat him up when he didn’t do homeworks or get A’s for everything. Those kind of people tend to have contempt for everyone else, especially those they call “soft.”
While it’s noteworthy how parents sacrice like that it does create lots of self righteous automatons…Excuse for typos.
#137 “Chinese Engineer”
As a senior research scientist, I have a lot more in common with engineers than you might think, except that we earn substantially more. I’m not sure why you assume I’ve been anywhere near the liberal arts or hippies – btw you appear Breivik-like in your hatred of these people. Congratulations, if this is your intention.
I find you fascinating. A simple Google search: “chinese engineer” site: http://www.jamyangnorbu.com, provides a mass of postings that form very interesting insights into your being.
However, there are some things we can’t ascertain. Can you complete the following? Simple Y/N will do (e.g. 1.Y 2.N)-
1. Are you an only child?
2. Do you speak english without an accent?
3. Were you born in China?
4. If so, were your parents cadres?
6. Do you participate in team sports?
7. Do you undertake regular physical exercise?
8. Do you have a hobby outside of spending hours on this site?
9. Were you raised with two to four grandparents present through your childhood?
This is to aid in understanding why you behave as you do towards Tibetans. You claim you are not racist, but I believe you are. Colonialists always need to belittle and dehumanise the “untermenschen” in order to clear their consciences. They also don’t like their consciences being tweeked by people like the “Free Tibet Imbeciles” rubbing their atrocities in their face.
It is clear that you are almost devoid of any emotional intelligence. I don’t think I was wide of the mark in my assessment of you at all. In fact denying something twice in short succession, as you did in #137, is a clear indicator that I was very close to the mark – let’s say 80% correct. I look forward to your answers … and further abuse.
Fools!!!! Chinese Engineer ain’t Chinese but a Tibetan.
#159 K.DHONDAN
You’re stealing my thunder!!
Just read this very disturbing post on a phayul.com forum –
“Just learned from a reliable source in DC that Kalden Lodoe or the committee will not be offering apology to TYC. I believe they consulted officials including Samdhong Lama in DC and believe this is not going to happen.
According in to some insiders, CTA or tsencheol driktsuk is in the next phase of banning the following:
1. Demonstrations against the Chinese government
2. Use of Free Tibet slogans and instead new slogans such as Tibbat Chini Bhai Bhai are being coined.
3. Tibetan National Flag (some save it as souvenir if you have one)
4. TYC and SFT organizations are being indirectly back stabbed and banned.
5. Rangzen proponents are being socially boycotted and ostracized
To all our fellow Tibetans, start learning Chinese National anthem. (just started learning it from the internet) Our anthem, Dentsik Monlam will soon be history. Soon we have to start hoisting the Chinese National flags in Gangkyi. No more 10th March. No more Free Tibet or I love Tibet T shirts.
What democracy is this? Such a Contradiction of HH’s and Tibetan govt in exile boasting about our exile set up being democracratic.
To my brothers and sisters in Tibet, I appeal to you again not to demonstrate or sacrifice your lives for Rangzen. It’s useless. Instead save your precious lives for yourself and your family. A policy of appeasement is in force by the driktsuk.”
Yes, what democracy is this? In name only.
Looks like more “ending” is happening.
I remain confused.
@ #160 and you stole mine! Lots of delphic oracles around.
China has little or no technology, including nuclear, that it has not stolen from other governments or foreign corporations. China has good engineers, but not good scientists.
161 Inji
Why are you publishing info which is not verified. These might be pure speculations and a very dangereous one too. \
This info does not help tibetans.
Dokpa
Here are some refreshing thoughts:
PhunWang Ngar ne Chinsong,
Gya Mak ktri ne Lebsong.
Ngabo Ngar ne Chinsong,
Chamdo Kye ne Lebsong.
Samdhong pop (moody) ne lebsong,
Boe-Shung ke ne Chinsong.
Agu Tonpa Lebsong.
Thom-khyer lhang ne dro song.
Agu !
Not so refreshing in case of SR la.
http://forums2.phayul.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21973-respect-our-katri-z-rinpoche/
Chinese Engineer: a textbook example of an oblivious troll who has a crippling illusion of being the alpha fish of a small pond.
While I appreciate the lively discussion and off-tangent remarks, I’d like to invite everyone to call a moratorium on the more self-aggrandizing and pitiful aspects of some of your posts.
“I pay my taxes on time…no check of mine has ever bounced.”
Seriously? Do you really think, or god forbid, actually use these kinds of lines as a rejoinder in actual conversations? In what situation does this not come off as naive, mean-spirited, insecure or just really assholish?
I can imagine you standing in line to check out your groceries, and silently judging everyone ahead of you based on what brands of clothes they wear and whether they use food stamps or not. You probably even surmise the kind of occupations they have based on the colour of their skins.
You see what you did there? You allowed a total internet stranger to pigeonhole you as a shallow, materialistic and arrogant d-bag.
You may make some thought-provoking points, but they are all subsumed by the slick and slime of your barely-concealed condescension towards others and for that unit you keep shoving up your own rear end.
Just be nice, that’s all. Buddy.
Haha Agu la, pey yakpo labsong.
But in all fairness, Samdhong Rinpoche la is following
Kundun requested. I can’t blame him when 42 chitues
did likewise and i believe these new ones will do likewise
in a similar situation. They dont have to worry
About answering to a party caucus and they have much to
Worry about being singled out and be ostracized by everyone
at the parliament.
Samdhong dhenpey thar keyke labsong
Bhopa gyami Surne ching song.
Who elected “our” chitues? Did HHDL appointed them? “We” did! You’re good enough, go ahead and take your chance and be one Chitue and make your change. JN and all your followers, “DO” something for Tibet, being an armchair strategist and blame HHDL or others for not giving you “freedom” fighters a chance is totally absurd, I myself will never accept the middle way, but not like you guys, I “DO” things and try to change it.
Everyone! Namgyal DOES things. We dont know what it
is, but by the tone of it, it is something Major.
When I met him in 1955, I immediately realized that it would benefit China greatly if I let him flee into exile. I knew he’ll design an exile administration based on what he does best. Begging! Now, who in his right mind would give away 2.5 million sq. kilometers of land out of generosity. I am dead tired of watching you morons still duped into thinking that someday Tibet will fall into your lap. I am sorry but that ain’t gonna happen. Here is my tip for a successful revolution. Spill some blood. If I were alive today, I would say exactly the opposite.
Ciao,
Mao’s Mausoleum
Beijing, China
Mao#171:My condolences to you on your dead soul.I can only sympathize with you.Nying jae,mashing mongpa!!!Om mani padmae hung.
hey Mao guy, you go to hell. How you liking those maggots?
WHO KNOWS MAO MAY BE REINCARNATED LAMA IN OUR MONASTERY? AFTER ALL, WE SAY IN BUDDHISM ITS THE MOTIVATION THAT MATTERS RIGHT?
people, we are not debating; we are shouting at each other. one of the hallmarks of critical thinkers is that they strive to view situations from perspectives other than their own, particularly those of people who disagree with their own so the development of our minds will not be severely limited. identify the arguments, evidence and reasons. think empathically!
who is suffering from retrograde amnesia?
when “the final solution” in tibet is becoming ever more imminent, it is only natural for rangzen activists to go into a long diatribe on the need to restore the struggle for independence in dhasa. however, it is often fruitless to argue with middle pathist, chinese and others of that ilk.
when the dalai lama told his people and the world in 1988 that he was quitting as an independent advocate to become an activitist for the continuation of tibet under china, the tibetan people and their foreign supporters were convulsed with disbelief and confusion. when lhasang and jamyang realized that the tibetan leadership was obssessed with the idea, they became quite serious, launching an awareness campaign on the importance of continuing our struggle for independence by the dhasa leaders. dhasa’s political reasoning is often garbled and incoherent, we could only conjecture as to its message and motivation.
more than 60 years of direct experience under chinese deceptions should leave no room for hope of a fortuitous opportunity to resolve our political crisis thru the fantasy of autonomy. by now all those tibetans who are usually phlegmatic should lose all their political inhibitions and confront the reality of illusion we have been fed by our own leaders for so long.
whats the alternative? can we form a people’s govt without dhasa in it?
Instead of asking and doing BIG TALK everywhere….do it by yourself, people will follow suit if it is a good strategy. Furting online only is NOT ENOUGH.
Dear Tsedor,
Maggots? No, not at all. My fellow Chinese comrades have built a beautiful glass coffin in my honor just south of Tiananmen Square. My Mausoleum is much cleaner than any restaurants in Dhasa. My portrait, bigger than life, hangs over the Forbidden City. A spectacular military parade was held in the square in 2009 to mark the 60th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic. If you have seen the parade, it should remind you what I said early on – “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”
Do your homework!
Zai Jian,
Mao
Let’s pay homage to Tsewang Norbu from Daufu (Tawu, Kham). Another brave soul attempting to spark the revolutionary spirit in all of us. You know Daufu is only a half day ride from Chengdu, a major Chinese city. Imagine if we have more Tsewang Norbus with a strategic mindset. Even I, who engineered the destruction of your civilization, pay respect to those with true spirit of revolution. May he rest in peace! I hope he didn’t die in wane.
Comrade Mao
I personally don’t think lighting oneself on fire qualifies as “strategic mindset”. After all, the Falun Gong retards do it all the time.
Your country man,
Chinese Engineer
jamyang la your English writing skill is so nice,i like to read your articles but i would like to know that your articles which is related on out side of tibetans and its issue. then you go different way and sometimes you search a unreasonable for your way.actually our democratic society need a person who can think,talk,do but reasons are main precondition for doing that three things.
Jamyang la, thank you for writing such a long article. whether it makes sense or not it is long and one needs to spend lots of time and patience reading it. I have one complain or question. “Didn’t he realize that he couldn’t just reach back some 370 odd years in history to reorder events to suit his current plans anymore than he could realistically demand the Chinese return to him the actual Ganden Phodrang building (which still exists).”
Please explain me don’t you the right to your forefathers property or wealth. If you can sell or transfer your forefathers properties or wealth why can’t his holiness hold this right?
still more question before your PART II comes in
Christophe sheds more light on the governmental name change in a good essay here:
http://www.phayul.com/mobile/?page=view&c=4&id=29930
when is the second part coming out, Jamyang la?
I should like to remark that I have never found greater delight and humor than in reading the posts of the Chinese on this website. Thank you so much, my dear “brothers” (I use that term loosely since you don’t much resemble the human species I belong to) for making me laugh.
Your comments are consistently and utterly hilarious, somewhat akin to the claims of neoNazis that the Holocaust (of Jews) “never happened.” I suppose when you own so many billions and billions of dollars of foreign debt, it becomes possible to buy anything, including the truth. However, the Rangzen crowd shall continue to speak the truth. Tibet was, and must be FREE. No matter how educated, erudite, and eloquent the red…let us just say the “Chinese posters” become, they can not deny the fact that the Chinese government and, therefore, the citizens are responsible for raping, pillaging, torturing, murdering, and committing genocide in Tibet for 50 years. Though I abhor violence, I wouldn’t have to be a genius to predict one of two outcomes:
1) Tibet and Tibet’s people are eradicated per CCP’s will
2) Things get really, really ugly.
If I had to choose, though its a tough choice, I would choose option two. If I was God, or something, I’d pick option two. Why? As abhorrent as violence is, the presence of sheer brutality, disregard for the sanctity of life, and pure evil….are much worse. The CCP is the embodiment of this evil in its torture, rapes, and murders. The CCP SHOULD AND MUST BE COMPLETELY DESTROYED SO THAT NOT EVEN ITS NAME REMAINS IN A SINGLE HISTORY BOOK. FOR, SUCH IS THE SCOPE OF THE EVIL AND PAIN THE CPP PERPETUATES. World governments can be bought, but not so a single man of integrity.
Not so far from Oddiyana, one Rangzen warrior says “there is a lot a man can do with nothing but a box of matches.” That, or death, will be the future of Tibet. I don’t have to light a match to see clearly. Tibet is dying. But, my friends, it is here that I shall give you hope. China, too, will die.
From Oddiyanna,
Sharma Patel
who let this idiot out of the looney cage?
Looking in the mirror again, Chinese Engineer lak?
lol
Chinese Engineer,
I am loonier than you know, and you are more Chinese than you realize. If I were you, I’d sequester myself in a monastery with that fake Panchen “Gyancain Norbu”, pray to ghosts, and practice Commie hypocrisy. Because if we met in person, I would give you the tongue lashing of your life, you little red coward. And if you raised a Chinese hand to me, well, that would be a bad idea. I’ll leave it at that. See, I am Sharma Patel, and I am not much of the pacifist when dealing with genocidal rapist supporters like you. But I abide by the law, so you’ll have to raise your hand first after I lash you bloody with my tongue. Then we’ll let fate and boxing decide the rest, should you like. You Chinese Commies have it coming, buddy-o. You can get away with raping and murdering for a time, but in the end, the CCP put its, and its members’ lives on the line by abusing Tibetans. This is a fact, rather than some kind of threat.
Back to the point: BHOD RANGZEN! By the way, as much as you dream of “face” you little red commies aren’t respected anywhere in the free world. We just like to go to outlet stores and buy your cheap crap. It doesn’t mean we like you or respect you. You have NO FACE.
Fondly yours,
Sharma Patel
Hey retard,
Do us all a favor and put a 9mm slug in your brain please.
With much resentment
CE
p.s.
this internet tough guy crap makes you look like a pussy. If you’re so tough, please take your moronic ass into Tibet and see how far you can get messing with a PAP battalion.
Talking tough always comes easily with retards who have no military experience, it seems.
#190 Dear Comwade “China Engineer”
Congwaturations, you make magnificent postings always. Pwease be knowing you make all citizen CCP wery pwoud your cwever wesponses. Comwade Hu wery happy you stick it to all Xizang Wangzen Walla (wery wucky this Walla word easy for me to say).
Pwease cowect your pay here –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Army
Oh Herro Dear Anonymous Party Member
My postings may be mawnifficant, but the grory of the party shines much brighter. I am eternally preased that Comwade Hu ackwowledges my contribution to the grory of China.
Prease promote me to the 2.99 Army, I twink I deserve it, after bring a shed of wisdom and common sense to these retards here on this brog.
2.99 is a huge raise for a dump observer living and sleeping in macdonald with occasional pizza treat.
are you speaking from experience?
Uncle defect Chiu has his running dogs around keeping himself healthy financially…dumbty!
Han population is just 15% of China today.98% of CCP Leader are of Korean or Japanese or tibetan descent.Han population got drastically reduced around 12000 years ago by chick pox introduced by Japanese, korean, tibetan trader at that time.
Han are generally peaceful farmers and would never leave their farmland for anything and have no iQ for running businesses.
Han are the one suffering today loosing their farm land every day.Mao was the last remnant of Han in leadership role with a vengeance to exterminate the mixed race that exist in China.
is this a joke?
All except mine!
#192 Dear Comwade “China Engineer”
Sorry my dewayed wesponse. I on Beijing mean time.
I weturn your preasure to wespected Comwade Hu, but he was busy with suwounding unarmed monks in monasteries in the Autonymoose Wegions with the wery bwave PAP battalions. They the real herro, not me.
Sorry I spell “mawnifficant” wong. Wespectfully I must cowect your spelling of glory, it’s gwory, not grory in #192.
Sorry I anomynous, but like you I’m too much of a cowardly little functionary to weveal my true identity and motives. Wouldn’t want anywon to think I’m not who I wepresent (heh, heh, heh … wery wery much fun isn’t it!?). Not like the silly principled people on this blog who operate under their weal names. They obviously not read their penguin paperback copy of that Machiavelli spagetti guy we so fond of, or any of the populist history books we wead that awailable any corner book store.
Speaking of spaghetti, you like noodle? Must catch up for lunch next time you in Beijing. We have nice Han restaurant awound the corner, actually awound every corner. Much nicer than McDonald. Sorry you weduced to eating this cwap by your pay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Army
Anyway, things going weally weally well here at United Fwont Beijing office. Sinocisation program of Xizang in full swing and we about to upgrade status of stewilisation campaign as planned. Keeping me wery, wery busy. Not much time for majong.
We got one wery good Xizang boy here on the office experience program. He wery respectful all Han people and wery thankful we take his land in exchange for this office experience program. Always smiling nicely this boy. Today I have bad cold, when I sneezes he says “gyame kyakpa sa”. He says this is very respectful Xizang blessing, much more higher than saying just Xizang language “tshering” – means like “good health and long life”. Wery good boy.
Anyway, my boss is calling me to go out back woom and polish the Golden Urn. Silly old Ming thing. Why they make this my wesponsibility? I don’t know. We have new society, but keeping only just this silly old thing from Ming. You know gold price so high, I say “boss we sell this Urn”, but boss get wery, wery angwy.
Btw. You got 9mm ammo you mention in #190? What about 5.8mm? Esspecihry for Type 88 sniper rifle? We running out ammo, the bwave PAP battalions used up all ammo shooting those cowardly evil unarmed running away escaping Xizang nuns in the back on Nangpa la. I look all through back woom and can’t find single wround.
Best
Comwade Dung, UF Beijing
p.s. Whoops, forgot to wish you “gyame kyakpa sa” wespected “China Engineer”.
Dear China Woman Engineer,
I am just a scrawny Indian man. You’re right. My tough guy talk is all crap. But do you really want me to arm myself? And on a separate note, may I have your street address?
Lots of love,
Sharma Patel
To continue 15% Han population in today’s China.Here is another fact:
Full moon ritual:
Pure-Han’s intense love affair with their farmland was well known to the traders during the prehistoric times and their “can do anything attitude” for their crop yield. The ritual of full moon was just another practice of Han’s deep attachment to their way of living by farming.
On every full moon night (After sowing the seeds), the head of the household would take his lady to the middle of the farm for love-making, normally should last for ½ hour to have better result out of this ritual, naked buttock facing up to the moon. The belief that this loving-energy produced during love making, which the wind will carry in all four directions will please the crop’s spirit and help in better crop yield. Generally, Han man are shy in the bed and would not engage in extramarital affairs, simply put they are very respectable gentleman.
This ritual was the main reason for the mix race of” Korean-han,Tibetan-japanese,janapese-han” that exist in China today. Ja-Ko-Ti Trader’s knowledge of full moon ritual gave them plenty of opportunity to bang the household older daughters who usually would watch their neighbour’s act during that night, while pleasing herself someway.
A pregnant daughter before a marriage was considered blessing as they belief the crop’s spirit was engaged in their family affairs.
A widow in those times normally invite eligible bachelor in the village of her liking for the night. Later on Ja-ko-ti traders took the place of “bachelor”.
Korean traders were the first to know of this ritual and haven’t shared this secret with Japanese and Tibetan for ½ a decade, as a result we see Korean-han mix more than
Japanese/Tibetan /han mix today.
If you look like Mao or the guy who sang ‘she banged-she banged” on American idol, you are pure-Han. The looks of Jackie chan,lucy liu,jet li are of Han/Japanese descent. The looks of Xi, liu are of Han/Tibetan descent.The looks of those on ‘website dedicated to oriental escort services’ are of Korean/han descent.
Chinese in cultural revolution practiced cannibalism. Documented fact. Now instead of eating just one person, they eat up entire nations. May Chinese Communism die!
“A Mere Proposal”
Recently, I had the good fortune to converse with the undisputed Tulku of Tilopa, the Mahasiddha, the Sovereign King of Crazed Wisdom, Tulku Jamyang Dorje Wangpo Tsultrim Oser Sherab Namgyal Phuntsok Wangchuk Rinpoche the XXXXVII.
He made a mere proposal, which I’ll describe below.
Rinpoche suggested that out of great and wrathful compassion, Tibetan elders could rape the young wives of Chinese Communist leaders with cattle prods. Rinpoche thought that by re-enacting the Chinese brutality towards Tibetans against the Chinese themselves, the Chinese women would come to understand the suffering of Tibetan women, and generate a support movement to stop the abuse of Tibetan women.
Though I am just a scrawny Indian intellectual, I had to disagree with the sublime Rinpoche.
Rinpoche, I explained, this would be wrathful, but would it really be compassionate or effective? Moreover, since the average Chinese Communist wife is merely a subservient plaything, would they be capable of starting a support movement for brutalized Tibetan women? And finally, what if, like the Tibetan women, they just die from the abuse and are incapable of supporting Tibetans, or become crazed and deranged (like tortured Tibetans) to the point where they can’t help.
Rinpoche conceded my points. He retreated to his meditation cave to think on a better proposal.
Perhaps Rinpoche was testing my compassion and sympathy. I don’t know. Maybe he was being honest. It’s hard to say with this Tulku.
But I do expect the Chinese engineer, and all the high and low diplomats, to thank me for saving them from widespread rapes and assaults…you know….the kind the Han Chinese perpetrate against Tibetans day in and day out for the last 50 years.
Yours for an Independent Tibet free of genocidal rapists and murderers,
Sharma Patel
Jamyang la, when is the next article coming? Maybe after the parliament meeting where supposedly PM will bring the Shung issue on the table. What a farce we live. We have members of parliament with no govt. lol
Look at how innocent, gentleman looking pure Han are…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hung
William Hung is my personal hero.
Mine too! He wooks and tawk a wot wike me …
Best & “gyame kyakpa sa!”
Comwade Dung, UF Beijing
General (Dogsbody)
To interpret the ‘full moon ritual’ to a khampa would be as.
1. Han are innocent gentleman and farmer by profession.
2.They fok in the middle of the farm,leaving their daughter’s virginity at the mercy of the traders.
3.Every bastard child is considered blessings.
4.han Widow are all whore.
5.70% of todays china population are Korean/han mix and are professional escort (considered most lucrative export product from china).
6.jap/han mix are artist by profession
7.Tib/han mix are in leadership pos.
********************************************
8.william hung is brat pitt for Han (handsome).
… now it is absolutely clear that Beijing has no say whatsoever on the issues that concern the Dalai Lama Institute. The one that has all the rights concerning such matters is the Gandhen Photrant Trust.
On the other hand the Tibetan Government in Exile became the Tibetan People’s Organisation. It seems that it is stripped of its traditional legitimacy. Now it seems that it needs to prove the mandatory to claim it to be the legitimate representative of the Tibetan people, for example, if the Tibetans want to go to the UNO, just as Abbas did.
We should go to UN like Palestinians did. Before, we need to have support of tiny, timid, poor, and indifferent Buddhist countries who has a cultural tie to Tibet through Tibetan Buddhism as whole of Middle Eastern Muslim countries support Palestinians. Are we ready? Or we are still the same niave people who do not know the nuances except able to see similarities that media headlined in short and sweet package or ones that are visible to even an uninitiated one’s eyes?
NG
Comwade Dung
It is good to hear from you agwain. Pardon my twardiness, I was busy earning my 2 cents.
I very much rike noodles. But I’m based in Shanghai, and I don’t make enrough money to ride the burret train to Beijing, so lunch will have to wait.
U porish Golden Urn? That is high honor, friend. Perhaps you can arrange for me to see next time I’m around the nreighorhood. Maybe I can even put my nephew’s name in it, so that he get to be Dalai Llama, just like how it happened a couple of times. That way, he gets rich using Amerrican CIA money, and I may just be able to afford that burret train ticket.
Anyway, regwarding your ammo request:
Recently, our Cat. A units have been converting our existing stock of 5.8mm heavy ball rounds for the Type 88 to dedicated 5.8 sniper rwounds. There should be a surprus of old 5.8 heavy ball coming to your shwortly.
Enjoy shwooting monks. I heard they deswerve it for causing all that property damage back in 2008.
Comrade in Arm
CE
Dear Wespected Comwade “China Engineer”,
Phew!, we so glad you OK. We been wery wrorried the Xizang Wangzen Wallahs had driven you to have a bad stwoke from fwustration and stwess. Wery big shame you cannot come to United Fwont Beijing office for wunch due your lowly functionary’s pay (espechirirry as you are paying for the wunch). You should be earning more than 2 cents, as its 50 cents per blog post. Perhaps endemic cowwuption pwoblems are causing less wemittance of blog post funds? Everyone must be taking their cut along the way … after my (small deserved) cut there should be wery much more for you. Prwease try to save more money and then come China South West Airlines. The burret train is far too dangerous, it always crwashing, and we not want to lose you. You our most waluable double agent.
Anyway, things still wery busy at United Fwont Beijing office. I complain again my boss about having to spend so much time porrishing the Golden Urn. He tell me shut up and keep doing it … for at least another 15 years! He say there was some big announcement, but I Baidu this and nothing comes up. Why Baidu so useless?
You wrwight about popping name in Golden Urn … my friend Comwade Pu forced one Xizang family to “pop“ their son name in urn and now he Panchen Enderni! Like winning lottery! Wiving in wuxury in Beijing, all expenses paid. But we been wery cwever to force the Golden Urn ceremony on Xizang people, help us to manipulate the outcome. But you say Urn used to manipulate Xizang nephew choosing as Dalai? How that possible when Amban pwesent to bend proceedings in our favour? You saying our wespected Ambans cowupt and allow this? Talking cowupt, you like me and taking CIA double money too? I also taking Guomindang double money! You should see my house on Hainan – eweryone wery jealous my big Hainan house next to beach. Hey you got US greencard yet? Your children studying US University like mine too? I hope they get wesidency soon.
Anyway, Comwade Hu and Panchen Enderni is coming to our office wery soon as we nominate our Panchen Enderni for China Pweace Prwize. Ouch (… my wibs still hurt from warfing about this so much!). Sometime I think we so cwever in our cunning plans even I amazed by our own bwilliance. Meanwhile, we still busy putting Panchen picture around office for visit. The Xizang Desk office experience boy, Gendhun, he wery busy with this task. I wucky to have him to help … allows me to play mah-jong with Comwade Pu in back woom.
Btw, you wemember our Comwade Pu? He rwecruit you via double agent network. He now on Xinjiang desk … as punishment … he was in charge of Karma pa security before. My boss say wery big bwugger up, but I not know details, not on Baidu either.
Best and “gyame kyakpa sa”!
Comwade Dung
General (Dogsbody)
Xizang Desk
United Front Beijing Office
p.s. I just check my boss, don’t worry about the 5.8mm. My boss says let’s not muck awround anymore and just issue Type 85 sniper rwifles using newly deweloped 7.62mm exproding mercury hollow point burrets . Much better hitting power for the running-away nuns and wandalising monks. With a head shot, no head left! We will teach Xizang people to want their own country back! Also, I prepare pwesentation on pwoperty damage police control methodology for forthcoming Human Wrights Dialogue with UK delegation. We hope they will be very interested in our weasonable fatal methods to stop wandals wandlising pwoperty once and for all. This will be big opportunity for CCP to sell our superior social policing methods to London police force.
Jamyang la, it looks like Kundun is finally a little hurt by ur brutal honesty. I wonder whst took so long for this feelung to register? could this hurt be manufactured recently to stop the rsngzen aspirations of many? Npw the idiot prime minister and equally dull witted moron spesker of the house hsd come out, declared war on living beings, big,medium, and karge, whomsoevet have cause this ‘hurt’. The bulldog even wnts to control the internet. Iguess he wants to create a special witchcraft dept to silently kill
and character assassinate all those who disagree. These two imbeciles dont remember they too offered to change the name back to something with shung in it.
6. Tsering… can you named one Tibetan Leader who is charismatic and has great leadership skill like Kundun… please enlighten me… If there was no Kundun who will leading us..
I don’t know of any leaders like Kundun. You have to be first reincarnated 13 times and considered a living manifestation of Bodhisatva and trained to be a leader from birth. How can anyone possibly compare? Only North Korea’s dear leader comes close although he was shitty leader. Just because one disagrees with certain aspects of Kundun’s statements or policies doesn’t mean he was a bad leader nor does it mean that Kundun doesn’t know how to play the game. He was a great leader. The point is he is NOT the political leader now. Lobsang Sangay is the leader or at least he has the office. So, I don’t understand ur question.