During the Dalai Lama’s recent visit to the United States he met a group of Tibetan students in Madison, Wisconsin. One of them asked a question that, to put it mildly, made him very upset. The student stumbled over his words and was generally so awkward that it seemed to me he had been set-up by someone (probably older, definitely a politician) to pose this loaded question. But I could be wrong. The question concerned a member of the exile parliament, who the questioner said he would not name.
The student, who really didn’t seem to know what he was talking about, asked His Holiness why the Tibetan MP had stated that the Dalai Lama was not only advocating the Middle Way Approach but was also advocating for full Independence, and why was such a major mistake (contradiction?) like this allowed to happen?
His Holiness in His usual straightforward way cut to the chase. He said that it was not necessary to hide the name of the MP and mentioned his name, Karma Chophel. His Holiness also corrected the student’s mistake. His Holiness said that Karma Chophel had claimed that though the Dalai Lama spoke about autonomy from His mouth, in His heart the Dalai Lama was advocating Independence.
Karma Chophel la didn’t actually say anything quite so bluntly, and what he did say he couched in a much more polite and respectful way. He declared that he had absolute faith in the Dalai Lama as his spiritual leader. He said he no longer supported the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way Approach (MWA) because it was not working. Yet he firmly believed the Dalai Lama had implemented this policy because of the urgency of the present situation in Tibet, but that in His heart, the Dalai Lama knew that the Tibetan people wanted independence. This is just my summary. The actual statement on video with an English translation is on Rangzen.net.
In this piece I have not used the literal translation for the Tibetan word sem (mind) used by Karma Chophel and others, and have instead substituted the word “heart” since in English having something “in or on your mind” does not convey the element of “cherishing” or “holding dear”, that the Tibetan phrase “sem nang yod pa” does.
His Holiness then went to declare quite heatedly, that Karma Chophel had made Him, the Dalai Lama, into a liar when he said that the Dalai Lama spoke about autonomy from His mouth, while in deep in His heart He advocated Independence. His Holiness asked “Is there any purpose in making me into a liar?” His Holiness also emphasized that in his dealing with people internationally he had always been absolutely honest and straightforward on this issue.
I do not think that Karma Chophel la needs any defending. He is a seasoned parliamentarian, one who had even been an effective Speaker some years before, and his decision to come out openly and withdraw his earlier support for the Middle Way policy was an admirably gutsy one. Especially in light of the dismal fact that not a single other member of the Tibetan parliament has even called for a discussion of this urgent and critical issue.
But before the religious-right rabble in Dharamshala start pouring out in the streets howling for Karma la’s blood, as they surely will now that they have the convenient excuse that Karma la made His Holiness angry” (gyalwa rimpoche ghi gongpa trukpa ray), I think it is incumbent on me to point out a crucial fact to His Holiness, that if anyone has made His Holiness into a liar, it is actually all of His Middle Way faithful who claim, on a regular basis, that not only does the Dalai Lama have “Rangzen in His heart”, but that in fact all Middle Way followers have “Rangzen in their hearts” as well.
In every discussion or argument I have had with MWA followers – and I have had many, even public debates with such luminaries of the MWA faith as Sikyong Lobsang Sangay, Speaker Penpa Tsering and the Dalai Lama’s Representative in New York, Lobsang Nyendrak – invariably at one point or another during the discussion the claim will unfailingly be made by the MWA discussant that though he or she absolutely supports the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way Approach, that he or she also absolutely has Rangzen “in his or her heart”, as do all Tibetan people. The MWA discussant will then go on to explain that the Dalai Lama implemented the MWA policy only because the very survival of the Tibetan people was being threatened, and that it was the only option we had, and that the Dalai Lama, without question, still had Rangzen in his heart, as all MWA faithful did, only they were much more practical and realistic about it, unlike “the full independence” (Rangzen tsangma) crowd who were just emotional and fanatical.
The inherent contradiction in this bizarre semantic concoction is obvious. Yet no matter how seemingly ridiculous, it can be seen as an all too human response to an impossible dilemma. An extreme case of living in political denial. People love (or fear the Dalai Lama) very much, and believe that it is an enormous sin to disobey him, yet at the same time they are unable to completely give up an ideal and a dream for which they had struggled and sacrificed for many decades in exile. But bizarre as it may seem the “Rangzen in Your Heart” argument is a widespread phenomenon, so much so that Sikyong Lobsang Sangay la reworked it into his campaign platform as “U-Rang” claiming that he supported both the Middle Way (Umay Lam) and Rangzen, and it helped him win the elections!
Though I respectfully (but absolutely) disagree with His Holiness on the whole MWA issue, I think He was correct to reject something so patently ridiculous and even dishonest as the “Rangzen in My Heart” argument to prop up the validity of his signature policy. I am sure He realizes that it is one of fundamental reasons why the Chinese have consistently rejected his overtures. Beijing has openly declared that the Dalai Lama’s proposal of “Genuine Autonomy’ concealed a secret “splittist” (Rangzen) agenda. It did not help that the Dalai Lama’s youngest brother once made an even more direct statement undermining the Dalai Lamas’ MWA policy. Wang Li Xiong in his “Tibet: China’s 21st-Century Underbelly” cites an interview of the Dalai Lama’s brother Danzeng Qujia (Tenzin Chogyal) by the French reporter Pierre-Antoine Donnet, where Chogyal declared that autonomy was only a first step to gain independence.
The Dalai Lama is naturally frustrated at China’s skepticism and rejection of his Middle Way Approach. But he should understand that China’s distrust has not been caused by Rangzen activists. China clearly knows that Rangzen activists are openly and absolutely opposed to Chinese rule in Tibet. The question of trust doesn’t even arise. China’s suspicions about the MWA are, on the other hand, provoked by the Dalai Lama’s own loyal MWA followers who claim to have given up the goal of Tibetan independence, yet go around declaring that they have “Rangzen in their hearts”, and furthermore that the Dalai Lama does as well. His Holiness should direct his anger at his own MWA faithful who are unintentionally sabotaging his efforts, and instruct them on exactly what to say in the future when they defend his policy.
But clearly the damage has already been done and just re-working MWA slogans is not going to convince China of the Dalai Lama’s sincerity. As a Rangzen man it is not my business to offer suggestions in this matter, but I cannot help but notice that something much much more substantial, even dramatic, needs to be undertaken by the MWA crowd to demonstrate to China the sincerity of the Dalai Lama’s policy.
My suggestion is that at least one thousand MWA followers, to start with, should return to Tibet (or the PRC if you like), in order to live there and work with the Chinese authorities to create the atmosphere of trust and mutual respect that will ensure the success of MWA. This first contingent should be led by someone well versed in the arcana of MWA doctrine, so that he could clarify the all-important details to the Chinese authorities, and opportunity arising, even expound on it to the Chinese masses. I can think of no one more suitable than Professor Samdong Rimpoche, who has set himself up as the grand ideologue of the MWA doctrine. Another indispensable person to lead this contingent is Doctor Sikyong Lobsang Sangay (formerly of Harvard Law) who has stated, time and again, that China’s constitution has provisions to allow the implementation of MWA. Now he will have a hands-on opportunity to develop and prove his theory.
Of course, none of this can be done from exile. The mere fact of your living in exile demonstrates your distrust of China. It is a slap in the face for China’s leaders. Living in exile is a statement of opposition to the regime who exiled you in the first place. So, for Rangzen people exile is just the right place to be, till an opportunity arises where they can return to Tibet to overthrow Chinese rule. But for MWA followers who want China’s leaders to trust and accept the Middle Way Approach what more suitable action can they take but voluntarily return to the “Great Motherland” – the motherland that they want Tibet to become part of.
Of course, His Holiness cannot go back. Yes, MWA may be His signature policy, but above everything the Dalai Lama is the living symbol of Tibetan freedom and independence, and Rangzen people have paid too heavy a price in lives and suffering, to allow him to once again walk into anything that remotely smells of a Chinese trap. The recent announcement of the Dalai Lama’s proposed visit to Hong Kong is something that all Rangzen people have to be vigilant about. But this calls for a thorough inquiry in a future discussion.
To return to the discussion on hand, I think I have clearly managed to demonstrate that all Middle Way People, especially those returning to live under Chinese rule, absolutely must give up their “Rangzen in my heart” emotional pacifier or security blanket. They’ve got learn to suck it up and embrace the totality of the Middle Way Approach, even if that means giving up Rangzen (in your heart) and furthermore giving up freedom and democracy, and preparing themselves to live under a Communist political system, as the Sikyong has, in a recent policy speech in Washington, DC, made very clear must be done. While they’re at it, the MWA faithful might as well start practicing their Chinese phrases, as our Sikyong appears to have have been doing – and which he skillfully demonstrated at the DC conference. Some linguistic proficiency will no doubt help everyone concerned to ease themselves into the coming transition: “Xie Xie”.
Thank you JN la. I feel for Karma Choephel la. But in his heart he must feel lighter for having thrown off the burden of living with the hypocrisy of what the Middle Way has become.
At this point a leak of exactly what transpired during Xiao Wunan’s visit to Dharamshala would be most appreciated. I hope someone can oblige us.
I suspect we will find that there is no coincidence between the visit by Xiao and the subsequent rush of further MWA concessions by Sangyay and the CTA – elimination of democracy as a core ideal, further watering down of autonomy, duration etc. CTA have again been asked to jump higher by Beijing. If the CTA don’t watch out they will negotiate less than what was originally enshrined in the 17 Point Agreement.
I don’t understand why karma Chopel didn’t hold until he step down from parliamentarian position. i really think that he has aim to do this just before he step down. If he really think MWA didn’t work then why he held until last minutes to blow up everything including upset His Holiness.
Democracy should respect both free speech and responsibility. Now he kind of messed up and even brought disunity in exile communities and a lot of people deeply concerned that he against His Holiness directly in public.
The student who tries to ask question to His Holiness is clearly setup by evil minded politacians or someone specifically target Exile government and His Holiness. Such bull shit and was absolutely unneccessary in public.
People think independence is the Tibetan’s rights, that is true without question but we also have to think about emergency situation in Tibet. people suffers so much in Tibet and culturally almost eradicate from root. if we don’t act fast enough Tibet will be only in history book in next 50 years.
I’m not saying MWA is working with China so far. But least this is a means to pull China’s authority to the table to reduce pain and suffering that Tibetans have been going through everyday under intolerable repressive policy.
Is MWA is the prefect as nation? Is MWA is the only solution for Tibet? Do we willing to give up Tibet and tay with China? Will there be happy and peace for Tibetan if stay with china? All these questions easy to ask but it is so hard to find absolute and prefect answer for them.
Therefore, I suggest that we all Tibetans unite together work and step forward with one Tibetan-ness to face giant red evil on the planet. Independence and middle way approach argument won’t help us anything rather bring disunity and division in society.
“xie xie” my foot! no respect for a cheapo like him. Its his doing that all this commotion come about because He is not doing his job and putting more burden on HHDL.
HHDL is not involved in politics so people should not see too much into any political comment by His Holiness. He is our spiritual leader and we want to keep the respect intact always.
Jamyang la
Thank you for writing on this important issue. I agree with you and will always stand by you.
Rangzen!
i am very sorry for jamyang norbu la. No more your comment and your criticism for HHDL will work. Now youth congress is also again your opinion. i think you could not earn any more. very bad luck for you and good luck for us. Please don’t make disunity among Tibetan. i know your are origin is Tibetan but you are not Tibetan.
no one has right to instead other than own self.so ringzin or tenzin to be urself.
i respect you as a human being and as a follower of his holiness but its too much for you to criticize. hope you know that all your shitting thoughts and articles didn’t work in Tibetan community to destabilize the unity of our administration. may demons teach you lesson so that you could remember the gratefulness of kundun.
one more, if you truly believe in your writing, why not you come forward in Tibetan community and speak? why cowardly hide somewhere in west? bad luck to you
Thank you Jamyang la for speaking my mind. Karma Choephel’s speech was completely changed to suit their arguement. His Holiness response was rather mean- haven’t seen this kind of anger. I hope he directs such anger to China.
Jamyang la, You have a great suggestion- Samdhong Rinpoche and one thousang MWA people to should go back to Tibet and try to change the system within. They shouldn’t stay here and mess with Rangzen people unless they are chinese collaborators.
谢谢！
I am from Tibet, and happily live in Tibet with a home rather than people who misrepresenting Tibetan’s suffering and make a living in abroad. Shut the fuck up if you cannot or dare not come and fight….
NG
Remember: 97% Tibetan live in Tibet. I don’t give a shit 3% Tibetan outside Tibet. Go and suck CIA’s dick!
NG
Rangzen warriors,Dont follow blindly,Analayze urself and then come to a conclusion,Its all JN’s views.come up with ur own views.
Anyog tenpa, it’s ok to disagree with HH but arshole to demean HH. You are the enemy within.
to the middle way pathers,stop letting people who do so little for you to control so much of your Mind,feelings and emotions.
Spot on once again Jamyang la ! I have not met a single Tibetan that didn´t claim to want Rangzen.
Even the assholes that came to my home to cause trouble claimed to want Rangzen although they had chinese passports !
The lame supporters that protest in front of embassies but then return within days to kiss chicom ass for a visa for Tibet should go to the Great Maotherland too !
Hello Jamyang la,
This thoughtful observation of yours is indeed an act sincere and thorough contribution to the Tibetan Political Diaspora.
We, as a Tibetan, should openly be skeptical in our own right to clearly see the bigger picture of the reality.
Thus, considering this, the secular movement which is an expression of a free spirit, should well cherish both in the head and the heart, to unbiasly understand the situation within and without !
Whatever the case it maybe appears to be, both the approaches are sharing the same goal of fighting for – TIBET !
i see clearly neither a similarity nor a contradiction..!
After all, the freedom fighters are human beings before whatever they choose to believe in – either this approach or that..!
As a human, limitation on our part on being so ignorant about the exact demarcation between head and heart is sure to be considered.
Or else, we human will have a cunning scholar or an unwise warrior !
Excellent idea! Samdhong Rinpoche and Lobsang Sangey should prove the sincerity of their words and go and live under the Chinese system they have so much admiration. Those who support Middleway should also join them instead of barking on this blog. Leave this blog for the emotional people while the practical and the ground reality people should go back and prove to China how sincere you really are. Live the life that you are willing to put your people under instead of enjoying all the benefit of democracy outside.
Once you get thrown in prison, we will do you a favor and won’t protest as per your expressed appeal.
I don’t know why HH was upset. It is very bizarre as there was nothing really to be upset about in the speech. That little shithead kid managed to piss off HH which the Chinese couldn’t do after killing a million Tibetans. Good job little shit head!!
Karma Choephel la is talking for the date of those text written by H.H. He means before the date of CTA start Middle way aproach those written Rangwang should goes to Rangzen because that time we have only Rangzen stand. MWA start after that.
Lam umay chig-tong nang shug doe yo na dhasar dhep kyed jhes ga pheb rog.
People should stop blunt baseless accusations against prof JN lak. He is perhaps one of the few intellectuals who is risking his own credibility for the good of the Tibetan issue. He is totaly respectful towards HH although his approach towards resolving the issue could well be totaly different as is apparent.We need people like him to come out and criticise, whether we accept them or not. Its time to appreciate democracy, and let that fake goody goody mask off ourselves. Its the fickle minded bunch of god fearing retards in our society thats stopping the whole process of peaceful resolution.
Exiled Tibetans fight for which method to be adopted to make KEBAB least thinking in the way they will end up making nothing. What is the point in fighting for approach when it destroys our Very GOAL? DL knows and even proudly declares our exile community as a plural society but couldn’t encourage RA followers. Method and approach is required for freedom struggle but no approaches and its followers should be demonized for not advocating your path. I really have sympathy and support for Karma Chophel but who counts me. Chithue, as a parliamentarians should rather focus on spirit of Tibetan Charter not on sentiments of Dl. This much of knowledge should have in their head when they claim as exiled parliamentarians.
Karma Chomphel la need not worry. It doesnt at all mean that he is all of a sudden an outcast. we should know better by now.His holiness maybe just in bad mood that day and felt provoked by that question. we all have our days. Anyway, we’re with you Karma Chomphel la. But we got to get a grip,lets not make a big deal about what HH said about some individual but lets focus more on our collective response. keep calm and carry on.
NG you say you “live” in Tibet and it is apparent that you are a MWA’er, so you should know – isn’t it a good idea for MWA chaps, to move to Tibet and fight err..I mean suck up to the Chinese from within? After all the Sikyong said that he does not want democracy and will be happy to be ruled by China as per their charter!
JN-la thank you very much for speaking our minds and keeping us on our toes.
As soon as Sikyong said, CTA do not challenge CCP and that CTA do not even demand any change of political structure. I immediately thought its only the matter of VISA application and you are in. May be its difficult to obtain Chinese visa for being bad Chinese for 50 plus years? Why are we still in Exile if we accept everything? As a mere listener to the interview, such thoughts crossed my head, but in heart, something was troubling. Being born in India and nurtured in a democratic system, I have great apprehension living in a communist society. I feel if every Tibetan is given real opportunity to speak what they want without any retribution, its absolutely going to be “Independence” and definitely HHDL to be our spiritual leader. Imagine just for a second if HH reverts back to independence due to prevailing global political scenario, will any one will say that though they support “independence” but in heart they have something else. NO. Everybody will be united as ONE. So, no one is particularly against HHDL but have differing views on select issues (provision of democracy).
So, people, do not label anybody against HHDL or Tibet, just know that he/she who differs, simply enjoying the freedom that is nonexistent back home in Tibet.
Do you want to own a car or hire it for few days?
thank you Jamyang Norbu la. you’re doing a great service to Tibetans. We would be quite a different and a far more fragmented society without people like you.
i am quite sceptical about jamyang norbu act. regarding my perception his action create fragmentation in exile society. i think current critical period is not for instigating sense of division n cropping falseful accusation.
Hey Jamyang,
Are you out of your mind!!! World knows that PRC is afraid of His Holiness The Dalai Lama and not to some activist like you (i think you are PRC’s creation so not you definitely). If you are not blind then do look around and see what the people of the world and the Tibetan inside Tibet and also Tibetan refugees (not including some stupid who follows you and your master PRC) are saying about this middle way policy. To do good to you foes and at the same time do good to yourself is not a cup of tea for people like you. You always think about how to divide and rule, but be careful and should know, with whom you are fighting and who you are against (ask you dad PRC as they are sweating right now). Tibetans in Tibet and outside Tibet has full faith in His Holiness the Dalai Lama and following His path always bring peace to you as well as give peace to your foe….
So Jamyang mind it
Tsering Dolkar,
You are a shithead, and hope the shit in your head get washed soon by the PRC pee one day and then you will see the real world.
now im not sure if the student was set up by someone to ask the question, although i did think it was very bold of him. I think it is natural for someone to be awkward and stumble over words when asking such question to his holiness. I mean i would too. But everyone perceives differently.
Regarding Karma Chophel la, he stated his reasons for why he stepped down from the “MWA but rangzen at heart” title. “Yet he firmly believed the Dalai Lama had implemented this policy because of the urgency of the present situation in Tibet, but that in His heart, the Dalai Lama knew” what WE really need is independence. That would be my summary because this makes it sound more like his holiness wishes rangzen, not his holiness wishes ranzen for his people, which is believe is what chitue is claiming here. Karma Chophel la then continues on and speaks of all the prayers his holiness has written which according to karma chophel la confirms his belief that his holiness actually does seek independence in his heart. And thats reasonable and debatable. Now this statement of his holiness having rangzen at heart, although might have spoken many others’ words; but according to his holiness’ it is indeed incorrect. Karma Chophel la could have said oh many other MWA followers carries rangzen at heart(it is general, still gets his point out, and isn’t pinpointing anyone), but to claim a creator’s own belief on his vision is indeed somethin else behind the cover is wrong. Although karma chopel la, I am very sure wasn’t intending on offending his holiness, and was clearly stating his perception; but for someone in his position and with his experiences and background, either lacked his way of presentin his views, or didn’t think through of what he is actually claiming here. If that is not the case, then it would mean Karma Chophel la strongly believes and is indirectly claiming his holiness to have “rangzin” motive behind his MWA cover (although stated respectfully). And it is completely wrong. So, for his holiness to declare Karma Chophel la’s mistake here and to think he is turning his holiness into a liar is an expected consequence.
I agree many MWA followers do indeed carry the wish for independence in their hearts. It is important for educated tibetans to understand his holiness’s vision of MWA and then decide to whether to follow or not rather than just following his path out of respect or blind faith. Many others follow because they don’t find hopes in any other measure and because of the debilitating situation in tibet (but holds rangzen in heart). And a writer like yourself play a vital role in making people aware of the importance of having a clear strong stance in either of the path. Although i do know you have your own vision and beliefs, but id really hope to see a less biased articles, an article solely for respecting each other’s visions in this tumultuous time in tibetan history.
For a youngster like me we read and learn from diverse resources, and it is very easy for someone to lose their stand in the concoction.
Thuje Nang for your endless service for our people.
I think part of the problem of Jamyang Norbu’s detractors is that they are not well versed in English language. I wish Jamyang la would post Tibetan translation of his articles on this blog. Not that that will win over those who are so eager to leave nonsense comments despite their broken English regardless of whether they have understood JN la’s points or not.
Their objective is clear – Oppose and slander Jamyang Norbu and Rangzen proponents no matter what. I think these ignorant fools are as dangerous as the Chinese colonists if not more.
Lobsang Dhondup, I m now convinced that stupidity has no limit and stupid like you can see nothing beyond the what is fed. What is wrong in being extraordinary thinker? JN is a real piece jewel that we can truly be proud of. I am sure if DL is as sincere as he preaches, should also be proud of having a Tibetan who is not only a renowned writer but also a true patriot.
I always tell to my friend that when two great strategists meet there is always disagreement and we can’t be bias of either of two on the basis of name and social status. Jamyang could be wrong as much as DL could. Nobody is holy in politics.
When you allege JN as PRC agent, I felt you need to go back to and learn some exile Tibetan history. As about your allegation of his dividing the our already divided society has no real point since there was no time in our brief history in exile when we stayed united. There always was and is some some groups of people outcaste from our society. Politically, I don’t know what actually it had helped in our cause but i really do see china is benefitting from our divides. DL and his advisors, whoever it may be really need to appreciate the multi – approaches of our struggle rather than appeasing the western celebrities.
Tsering Dolker,
More than people who follow middle way policy, I think it’s high time for you and your inspiration Jamyang Lak to step up and guide the rest of the Tibetans towards the door step of Rangzen rather than always causing commotion within. By chance if the followers of MW policy get thrown inside the prison as you jot down, what hope there is for the bunch of Rangzen wallas? Nothing really, you will wait and wait hoping for some miracle.
It’s time we stand united for a goal which is common. If you think MW is hopeless, then what other constructive alternative you have to get back Rangzen. I mean something which can sent a shiver down the spine of CCP. If not stop barking at your own people.
One advice Samdhong Rinpoche gave was about one being self contradictory on what one actually wants and what he/she is practically working towards.
This is true for both MW and Rangzen pathers.
There are MWpathers who might have Rangzen at heart and Rangzen pather with MW at heart.
In both situation,what counts is the work towards that achieving goal.Even if you are trillion dollar rich at heart,your work could result in few ruppee.
I rest my case with the following excerpts from Jamyang la’s excellent article,
“… But he (Dalai Lama) should understand that China’s distrust has not been caused by Rangzen activists. China clearly knows that Rangzen activists are openly and absolutely opposed to Chinese rule in Tibet. The question of trust doesn’t even arise. China’s suspicions about the MWA are, on the other hand, provoked by the Dalai Lama’s own loyal MWA followers who claim to have given up the goal of Tibetan independence, yet go around declaring that they have “Rangzen in their hearts”, and furthermore that the Dalai Lama does as well. His Holiness should direct his anger at his own MWA faithful who are unintentionally sabotaging his efforts, and instruct them on exactly what to say in the future when they defend his policy.”
Thank You Jamyang Norbu La.
After watching the youtube, I feel like the young boy who asked the question to His Holiness is like a mischief maker and want to show off his loyalty to HH by pretending to ask such a question. there was no need to ask that stupid question. Karma Chomphel never said anything remotely like the boy was refering to.how could the organisers allow such a thing? The kid wants to appear to be this loyal, concerned member of society. But what he ended up doing was upset HH, made Karma Chomphel look bad and created this negative and divisive atmosphere for everyone- all for no good reason.I can udnerstand if there was a case to discuss, to clarify. That was not the case. This is not being responsible, its doing chamchagiri and istigating.
Pena T.
” It’s time we stand united for a goal which is common. If you think MW is hopeless, then what other constructive alternative you have to get back Rangzen. I mean something which can sent a shiver down the spine of CCP. If not stop barking at your own people.”
No doub, our goal should be one and that is Rangzen. When you said ‘ common goal’ do you mean rangzen or autonomous? As far as, your wishes is concerned, you want to wash the rangzen with your MW which is neither our path nor our goal.
As about alternative approach’let me clarify one important thing; samdhong and DL found MW as an alternative approach to RA, ask them what did they achieve in their changed path. Nothing. Don’t get confused. Rangzen is both path and goal and there is no alternative and no bargaining for it. Journey might be long and difficult but not unachievable. And I believe your MW is not less difficult than RA because for china giving away Genuine Autonomous is not less costlier than giving away Rangzen.
Tibetan Government in Exile or Central Tibetan Administration and the rest of us who are lead by it have accomplished a lot for ourselves. Our living standard has improved greatly and we have become “the most successful refugees” in the world. Many of us have thriving business and successful careers, and many of us have immigrated to the west and lead comfortable lives. Some of us have Dharma centers with hundreds of thousands of followers who cling to our every word.
But we haven’t done anything remotely useful for those who are left in Tibet. We have failed them miserably. Now we are even arguing about whether or not to protest against Chinese dignitaries who brazenly lie that everything is all right in Tibet. Our “heads” are busy ingratiating rich foreigners for funds and do not want to upset them. But have no qualms letting those in Tibet die in hundreds and thousands on the streets and in prisons.
So we have all failed and the sham democracy we were supposed to have be bestowed up is indeed something that’s been bestowed upon. The nature of a bestowed upon thing is that can be unbestowed at any moment.
So just go to hell. I am not paying Green Book money unless it says Rangzen Lagdhep or even a Rangwang Lagdhep.
So we have all failed and the sham democracy we were supposed to have been bestowed upon is indeed something that’s been bestowed upon. The nature of a bestowed upon thing is that can be (withdrawn) unbestowed at any moment.
If that kid is not a shithead, then what is he? He clearly said he ‘heard from someone’ meaning he did not do his research first of all or that he was deliberately going to misrepresent someone but leave some room to escape if he is called on it. Clearly other sycophants are involved if you read the Phayul editor was not allowed to cover the event and he was the son of Karma Chomphel. I think it was deliberate coaching or that shithead really wanted to piss Kundun off, maybe even land him hospital and achieve what theChinese weren’t able to achieve for 50 years. A traitor is born with daggers in his tongue. NyishiGoo lhu!!! Thuee! Thuee!!
Some if you still can’t seem to understand what Karma C was saying and I find it baffling. He is saying who doesn’t want independence in their hearts and HH had to come up with MWA to help save Tibet and its culture. Of course HH is sincere when he proposed MWA but most Middleway people are, too conflicted in their hearts to support wholeheartedly and yet too cowardly to take a stand.
“One of them asked a question that, to put it mildly, made him very upset. ”
Does anyone think this is disrespectful? Jamyang Norbu knows exactly how to ‘stir the pot’ so to speak. He deliberately explains the circumstances afterwards, and left that disrespectful sentence on its own to begin this particular blog. What a purposeful, spite filled, veiled arrangement by Jamyang. I understand, you’ve been ostracized and unfairly been treated over the years by many Tibetans Jamyang, you’ve made this known in your countless interviews and articles. I saw the interview you did in the recent past, about how the number of Tibetans threatening to beat or god forbid kill you, back in the day could form countless lines. You also stated in your most sarcastic way, how you haven’t gotten the privilege of having an audience with H.H. the Dalai Lama anymore etc. So, of course I can see the background from where your coming from, some of these situations against you are unfair to be honest. At the same time, why such do you have to begin this blog (that has some truth to it) in such a disrespectful manner. You could have written the introductory paragraph in countless ways with your skills, but alas you have chosen to make many people upset with the total lack of respect. In a nutshell, lets take for example, if your most loved person in your life said something, a ‘scholar’ wanted to reveal some inaccuracies with the statement. No matter how truthful, or skilled the scholar’s explanation may be, if he begins by stating, something of the sorts, “oh look how mad this person got!”, then no one will be willing to listen no matter if you are speaking the truth or not. The way you attempt to incite people you are against, is a absolutely despicable, otherwise you are interesting read. I wish you could change this in the future, there is still time you old fart! haha, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful.
From a Tibetan Born in Tennesse
Jamyang’s blog essentially begins with this statement: “One of them asked a question that, to put it mildly, made him very upset. ” ……….
Does anyone think the statement above is disrespectful? Jamyang Norbu knows exactly how to ‘stir the pot’ so to speak. He deliberately explains the circumstances afterwards, and left that disrespectful sentence on its own to begin this particular blog. What a purposeful, spite filled, veiled arrangement by Jamyang. I understand you’ve been ostracized and unfairly been treated over the years by many Tibetans Jamyang, you’ve made this known in your countless interviews and articles. I saw the interview you did in the recent past, about how the number of Tibetans threatening to beat or god forbid kill you, back in the day could form countless lines. You also stated in your most sarcastic way, how you haven’t gotten the privilege of having an audience with H.H. the Dalai Lama anymore etc. So, of course I can see the background from where your lack of respect originates, and some of these situations against you are unfair to be honest. At the same time, why do you have to begin this blog (that has some truth to it) in such a disrespectful manner. You could have written the introductory paragraph in countless ways with your skills, but alas you have chosen to upset people with the total lack of respect. Lets take for example, if the most loved person in your life said something, and there was a ‘scholar’ out there who wanted to reveal some inaccuracies with your loved one’s statement. No matter how truthful, or skilled the scholar’s explanation may be, if that scholar begins by stating, something along the lines of, “oh look how mad this person got!”, then no one will be willing to listen no matter if you are speaking the truth or not. If I were about to talk smack about your wife for instance, I would not begin to engage you in a conversation with the phrase, “did you see how mad your wife got!”. The way you attempt to incite people you are against, is a absolutely despicable, otherwise you are an interesting read. I wish you could change this in the future, there is still time you old fart! haha, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be disrespectful.
From a Tibetan Born in Tennesse
– I had to edit some parts from the previous post, submitted in haste, only because I know your responses against Tibetans born in the west, usually poke fun at our English proficiency even though we’ve been brought up here, when in fact your the one speaking with the accent (I’ve seen your posts/responses on facebook, although I’ve never said anything to you ’till today). Your always such a mean spirited guy ya’ know, and it comes through in your writing. Although, I wish you be more forthright with your anger, instead of this veiled aggression which is annoying.
Oh and please, if you do respond, can you save the witty one liners, just be sincere for once. That would be appreciated.
Dorjee
A good writer starts a sentence to catch the readers eyes. Didn’t you know that? Haven’t you ever read anything beyond Facebook posts? What’s disrespectful about the sentence anyway? Stirring pot indeed!!! Search your own soul and you will find a mighty pot stirrer inside.
Let me tell you something: Accent is not important. Substance is important. Salman Rushdie has an accent. Joseph Conrad had a strong one. Einstein had an accent too. You, on the other hand, though being born in Tennessee, can barely write in American English. Perhaps you were born high up in the Appalachian mountains where they don’t yet have running water or good schools. If that is the case, it cannot be helped, but just don’t blame others for your own shortcomings.
Thank you Jamyang la for this wonderful piece.
I believe that the attack on Karma Chophel was calculated,it was to create a ‘spiral of silence’,where no Tibetan would dare speak out again,they have twisted the words of Karma Chophel and have changed the sentence from ‘hurt feelings’ to ‘called me a liar’,it’s utterly pitiful!
and what I would not pay to be a fly on the wall,watching Samdhong Rinpoche,Penpa Tsering and lastly Lobsang Sangay read your article,seething with righteous indignation.
lately jamyang norbu is not himself, is it that the influence of hillybilly around tennesee is making JN confused–or tn barboun is twisting his imagination.
46 you are right. Cta, and those pulling its string, are very manipulative and karma chophel is used here deliberatively to suppress democratic voices. We have a sham democracy just to showcase. There is a hhdl line of control and no one is supposed to cross it.
Daveno I think your friend Dorjee( born in Tennesse) is the one influenced by hilly billy white trash. He was born there. childhood influences are very strong and remain well entrenched you know. you can get the boy out of the hilly billy but you cant get the hilly billy out of the boy. whereas Jamyang Norbu has lived in India ( and proud of the accent) and else where and has traveled around and so has a good perspective of things. who cares for stupid american twang devoid of substance.
Tenzing, your jamyang is 50/50..indian Tibetian.well his dad is actually indian.
# 50
Ya, just like the chinese say HHDL is chinese and the shugdenpa say HH is chinese, born in chinese influence area. Is that how you look at things?
Anyhow, just be true to yourself and work towards what you truly believe in ,also get to your goal closer each day. yapping and whats in ones heart isn’t worth a penny when that wont get us anywhere..
Hey Tennessee dorjee, I think you bit off more than you can chew! Your claim to fame is being born in Tennessee? And your criticism of JN- la is his accent? I’d love to hear YOUR hillbilly accent! How jap-chung can you MWA people get?
someone should tell the MWA crowd that His Holiness has retired from all political role,and that His Holiness has also granted the exile community an ‘administration’ that follows democratic principles,unless this MWA crowd really believes that the retirement from politics is not really a retirement and that democracy in exile is not really a democracy…actually they may have a point there.
I have also been perplexed and wonder who is really advising His Holiness …’my feelings are hurt’ ‘he called me a liar’ I last heard that when I was in Kindergarten.
you are just a crap, seriously just thinking your self wise enough to write contradictory things to your nation and leader, you are actually doing this to gain the fame and readers it really sad, if you really think rangzen, why not do something that reflect on china, not for tibetan, i think at list if you can’t help fight for you country why you harming it for those who are giving their life, is it for filling your belly, our struggle is dependent on support of other, and we know how much world support middle way, i think you having good life by writing all this,may be chinsese paying your work who knows. but what about all other tibetan,
we want our land back with some value no body want a dessert to live, we all know how chinese destroying our land and polluting the environment, u better stop this shit, don’t act like you are perfect and someday we will praise you like bob marley, no you are shit and shit are always shit,
In your words.
“Set-up by someone (probably older, definitely a politician) to pose this loaded question.” This is not loaded as stated or dialectical question, rather simple. General public needs clarification on this doubt. Whether the guy lacks fluency in Tibetan language or its set up by politician to put question in writing is immaterial. Real question is substance of the question and that’s necessity for both middle way follower and Rangzen advocates.
His holiness explicit and unequivocal stand on middle way is absolutely need to be understand by staunch middle way advocates if it’s true as JN mentioned “the MWA discussant that though he or she absolutely supports the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way Approach, that he or she also absolutely has Rangzen “in his or her heart”, as do all Tibetan people.” We know about the Chinese accusing on his younger’s brother remarks “an interview of the Dalai Lama’s brother Danzeng Qujia (Tenzin Chogyal) by the French reporter Pierre-Antoine Donnet, where Chogyal declared that autonomy was only a first step to gain independence.” As quoted in this article. As in the tone of the question, the guy mentioned ‘how such a major mistake (wrong understanding ) is happening ?’ this is valid question not just implying to Rangzen advocates but for middle way follower too. His holiness supports and demands pure “genuine autonomy” under Chinese constitution and all his followers should must understand that if times come for negotiation on middle way, Chinese will have absolutely restricted agreement or policy on Tibetan local administration so that Tibetan can never ever raise the question of separation in future. But again question comes His holiness comments ‘ whether Tibetan people forever stays under Chinese or not will decided by Tibetan people’. Again quandary.
“The inherent contradiction in this bizarre semantic concoction is obvious. Yet no matter how seemingly ridiculous, it can be seen as an all too human response to an impossible dilemma.” As JN stated, and absolutely in this “impossible dilemma” where the Tibetan is suffering immensely and the race is in danger to fade away. His holiness is only potential savior and we should must faith on his moral and political leadership to ease the suffering and to avoid –forever we remain as refugees. “The mere fact of your living in exile demonstrates your distrust of China …… So for Rangzen people exile is right place to be till an opportunity comes to return to Tibet…” people leaving for economical powerful countries from Tibet or from exile base India is it merely mistrust to china, absolutely not and but for better livelihood, better education for their offspring, and secure life. I don’t think you (JN) are settled in America just because of mistrust of china and waiting for opportunity! And real question is under the suppressive and cruel policy of china, can Tibetan identity can be survive or under the civil liberties in Diaspora. Both JN and LS daughters can’t speak in Tibetan properly, even though their dads are icon in Tibetan society. Can you expect Tibetan identity can protect intact forever and struggle will continue till ‘opportunity comes’. where china bargain on time, we don’t have time to wait for opportunity or ideal time, this is the sole reason where CTA and the dalai lama compromise with opponents and creating opportunity not waiting for opportunity. And here counts His holiness intellectual and political understanding, as clearly demonstrated from his universal responsibility, moral based rather than religious instinct leadership personality in this universe and dialogue with scientist bears fruits today. Truly, his holiness is futurist and visionary. That’s what the leaders of world, academician, intellectual, educationist, and scientist believes. And his European model of economy is not joke, his holiness believes that the political boundaries will be symbolic and in this juncture 6 million Tibetan need to protect their identity with their own language under genuine autonomy.
General public don’t understand the clashes between the leaders of both, but deep down on their heart might be feeling, why they can’t talk mutually whole heartily in this crucial time? Or will china accuse on it, and his holiness will label again. No – in vibrant democracy everybody has ‘right to speech’ and expresses their thoughts openly as rangzen advocates has been barking for last few years, but it seems, it’s killing our society softly and dividing. And leaders celebrates in this type of tune ‘clearly the damage has already been done and just re-working MWA slogans is not going to convince China of the Dalai Lama’s sincerity.’ And misinterprets the slogans of self immolators and lives of martyrs of our freedom struggling and takes credit as they like ‘Rangzen people have paid too heavy a price in lives and suffering’ and building mistrust among ourselves “The recent announcement of the Dalai Lama’s proposed visit to Hong Kong is something that all Rangzen people have to be vigilant” is it really necessary to be vigilant only by Rangzen people?
No one can enforce ideology, everybody should must think independently, it’s absolutely own choice and decision ‘those returning to live under Chinese rule, absolutely must give up their “Rangzen in my heart” emotional pacifier or security blanket. They’ve got learn to suck it up and embrace the totality of the Middle Way’ many years back Jamyang norbu step sister was caught with kgs of heroin in darjeeing, his dad kungo lhawang lak mentioned that ‘he is not a Tibetan’ this is open secret. Then who the hell, this damn JN to dictates us what should be in our heart or not. Whatever he has written and said completely contradictory to get some hole to ease the suffering of Tibetan. And always slandering His holiness and people who are sacrificing their livelihood and shouldering responsibility with very marginal supports in dharamsala in this crucial period of our history. I saw samdong lama bit authoritarian but I listened, he praises JN dad for his work in our hard early period of exile. JN as he himself described as liberal modern personality but in reality rigid, conservative, liar and dogmatic, he will never believe and extol His holiness rather he is waiting for opportunity to write obituary to his holiness and his ideology.
Thank you.
GONE MAD,
For your information, MW was proposed after much pondering since the mere word of “Rangzen” piss off the Chinese hardliners. And in real sense also, many leaders around the globe consider Tibet as part of China. You don’t need to go too far to find out. Just look at Indian politician and find out what they have to say about Tibet. It’s good to see fellow Tibetans wanting Independence for Tibet but how you are going to tackle the mighty Chinese? It’s a big question lingering in everyone’s heart? And so far Rangzen wallas doesn’t even have a clear guidelines or strategies to achieve independence for Tibet apart from their mere ideological stand.(RA)
At present I consider both MW followers and Rangzen to be on the same boat because no one dare to go inside Tibet and fight the battle where it matters most. We are simply fighting over issues of you and me and in the end, Chinese are having the last laugh.
And GONE MAD, having Rangzen Stand in your heart is not enough, I want to see some clear cut path from your side to achieve independence for Tibet. If not waiting game will not work.
Pema T. La gongpa thruk duk. Gyokpo khong la ngatsoe chashi tsangma shes na matog khong gi ngatsor nyesdung tang sa re. Khong la thuk kha yo ma res, dha bar McDonald kyang kyang fast food choepa song tsang lamsang lamsang drepu thoen ya me na khong la dhutse ghapa ne yod.
JN and the pseudo writers,
Karma choeple distorting and implying that kundun is a liar and subsequent statements from kundun and his office should have put a rest to any doubt to what actually is the reality.
But here we have JN again doing what he does best, that is unwarranted and unsolicited wierd opinion against Kundun.
Suppose Kundun did mean Rangzen when he said rangwang back in 1960s., but still that does not make kundun liar.
But its highly unlike, most reader here would be aware CTA weekly newspaper called TIBETAN FREEDOM and BODME RANGWANG that is in print since 1960s. This weekly newspaper is still called as it was in 1960s. So karma Choeple defining rangwang to mean rangzen before umelam in 1980s does not hold any ground.
Karma choeple is an old politician, but he should not underestimate or oversimplify the todays youth.
གཏམ་ཨ་ཕས་བཏང་རྒྱུ་ཨ་མས་དང་།
ཁྱི་བདག་པོས་བཀག་རྒྱུ་མགྲོན་པོས་ཨས།
ཧཧཧ།།༄༄
རང་བཙན་ཁ་ལ་འཁྱེར་ནས།
མདའ་འཁྲུག་ཕུ་འཁྲུག་མ་བཟོ།
ཁྱོད་ར་འཇོན་ཐང་ཡོད་ན།
ནུས་པ་བཏོན་དང་བལྟས་ཆོག
ཧིཧིཧི།།།།།།།
Tibetans should remember that His Holiness is our spiritual and religious leader. We should never use His Holiness name in politics. I always find that people who used his name in politics wanted to destroy our struggle for Ragzen.
@Shakhampo: Thank You! Jamyang cannot even guarantee his own Children’s future generation as pure Tibetan. What the fuck he has right to dictate us how should Tibetan struggle run…..double headed, opportunist sibling of aristocrats who sucked the blood of common people is well recorded!
NG
I have respect for people who actually believe in their stance and faithfully follow it whether they can do something or not. The worst are those who pretend to float between the two without any idea of their own and simply employ the arm chair hunter role. They are the cowards who have no guts nor spine to at least have the balls to pick a side and probably not even possess a modicum of independent thinking. You fuckheads had decades to think on this subject and you can’t even make up your fucking mind?? Come on! Either path has bad sides and good sides to it. You just can’t pick the best of both and stand there jacking off to the rest of us. Put your fucking dick down and pick a side, goddamn ignoramus yellow bellied cocksuckers!
Suck cock in exile in good or bad shape…..if possible suck dick of cia annd mi6.
Ng
NG, suck Xi’s cock and if want more suck Hu’s cock.U cock sucker
Dr.X
Don’t write shit. Type proper Tibetan or English.
To those of you who seem to love “cock” and “sucking cocks,” your fantasies and private hobbies are obvious. Please try to keep them to yourselves since we have no desire know them. If you can’t make a coherent point in English and are extremely frustrated write it in Tibetan. If you can’t write it in Tibetan just put your thumb in your mouth to relieve your unnatural urges and refrain from using X rated languages here.
Sha Kam Po
You don’t make sense so please make your point in Tibetan. Also make it shorter. There is no worse sin than boring your audience to tears.
Dordrak #59: for your information, those are His Holiness words before 1978:
1975
“Consequently we the Tibetans in the free world, keeping our stand in conformity with the thinking of the masses of Tibet will never stop our movement for the independence of Tibet.” http://bit.ly/10MzTMK
“་་་ལྟར་ང་ཚོ་ཕྱི་རྒྱལ་རང་དབང་ཡུལ་ཁག་ནང་ཡོད་པའི་བོད་མི་རྣམས་ནས་ཀྱང་བོད་རྒྱ་ཆེའི་མི་མང་གི་བསམ་འདུན་དང་མཐུན་པར་བོད་རང་དབང་རང་བཙན་སྒྲུབ་པའི་ལས་འགན་འདི་དག་ནི་ནམ་ཡང་འདོར་ཐབས་མེད་ཅིང༌།” http://bit.ly/14SlnHp
1976
“Seventeen years have passed since the Tibetans began their just struggle for their inherent rights of Tibetan national independence.” http://bit.ly/10MzY2U
“ང་ཚོས་བོད་རང་བཙན་གྱི་དོན་ལ་འབད་རྩོལ་བྱེད་པའི་རྒྱུ་མཚན་དང་དམིགས་ཡུལ་ནི།” http://bit.ly/11KD9JR
1977
“Our struggle for the independence of Tibet is compatible with the hopes and aspirations of 6,000,000 Tibetans. It is a fulfilment of our rights and duties, and a just cause. Therefore, in order to realize this goal in its entirety, every Tibetan must endeavour to work in unity, with resolve, courage and determination.” http://bit.ly/12BWQ5v
“ང་ཚོས་བོད་རང་དབང་རང་བཙན་རྩོད་ལེན་བྱེད་པ་འདི་ནི། བོད་མི་ས་ཡ་དྲུག་གི་རེ་འདུན་དང་མཐུན་ཞིང༌། ཐོབ་ཐང་དང༌། བབས་འོས་ཡོད་པ། དྲང་བདེན་ཅན་ཞིག་ལ་བརྟེན། དམིགས་དོན་འདི་དག་ཡོངས་སུ་སྒྲུབ་པའི་ཆེད་དུ་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཐམས་ཅད་བློ་སེམས་གཅིག་ཏུ་བསྒྲིལ་ནས་སྙིང་སྟོབས་ཞུམ་པ་མེད་པའི་འབད་བརྩོན་ཆེ་བསྐྱེད་བྱེད་དགོས།” http://bit.ly/12BWThN
No many gay folks here ..
#69. That is a historical fact. What you dont understand is a sinister ploy to twist kundun’s one of the most benign prose ‘ bden tsig smon lam’ to serve an interest of particular group. HH and CTA did sought rangzen before 1979- its a fact. But rangwang certainly did not mean rangzen.
But its highly unlike, most reader here would be aware CTA weekly newspaper called TIBETAN FREEDOM and BODME RANGWANG that is in print since 1960s. This weekly newspaper is still called as it was in 1960s. So karma Choeple defining rangwang to mean rangzen before umelam in 1980s does not hold any ground.
I only remember people shouting slogans at demonstrations like “bhod rangzen tsangma yin” not “bhod rangkyongjong tsangma yin. “Gyamar bhod ne pha gyug chi” not “bhod di gya gi chashey yin”.
I wonder why MW people bother showing up at these demonstration. It is clear they do not understand what they stand for.
Thanks JN for more information.It is all beginning to make sense now. Rangzen, I am assuming, should stand for democratic ideals…because they can. “Give me Liberty or Give me Death!”- Patrick Henry. Middle Way,wanting to blend in Chinese society, should embrace Communism as this is what their policy will get them once the PRC welcomes them with open arms. This might explain why the TGE has a history of back room deals and nepotism. Seriously
Mwp( mao’s way please), are confused lot indeed. They should not prorest. They should welcome chinese leaders with chinese flags and carry mao’s little red book. Or even learn chinese opera now that it is official that theybwant to live under communist constition or their motherland’ s constition. They should go to china and work things out because their lives in a democratic country is measurable because tibetan people are waking up and realizing they have been taken for a ride by cta.
@Gone Mad: I will suck your bitchy mmother’s pussy who is bitching like whore everywhere in despite having you and your dadlike any other whoring shichak ladies and women. Make sure you check your dna sample and your father’s. Your dad could be sucking your sister….who knows!
NG
Now I feel pity for karma chophel..the dude has lived for 20 some years with self contradictory stand..it must be a torturing experiences,must have gone through sleepless nights turning back and forth with Rangzen or ulam probably more than his mani recitation so far. And the looks he carries clearly shows the stress he hhas gone through…poor dude.show some mercy on him..perform some drolma prayers for his tormented heart.
I believe there are other Rangzen pather just like those tyc southbrance who had mw in heart.
#60
Same could be said of Middle Way Activists.
Here is an answer to your poem
“Those in Tibet” at the tip of your tongues
Bowing and scraping to the the wealthy
Unwilling to inconvenience the powerful
Callous to the sufferings of your own people
Compromising your principle. Your nation.
Kissing up to the oppressor
Kicking down the oppressed
Killing the spirits of your hapless brethrens
Kema! (Alas)
Jamyang Norbu la thanks so much for yet another eye opening blogpost. I am so confuse with our leaders, they keep watering down what MA stands for, year after year after year and rest of the losers, like the fuckheads in here who are still defending their bullshit no matter how much MW changes, go along as if nothing has been changed from day one. It must be so hard for these MW losers to live in a free democratic countries when what they really want is to live under Chinese communist rule and work peacefully within the constitution of china. Ofcouse none of these lowlife hypocrites will ever move to China but instead hold his holiness’s skirt and beat down anyone who question his divine authority even when he said he is retired. These MW losers are spitting at the self immolators with their attitude basically telling the self immolators to stop making trouble for mother china and behave and be happy to live under Chinese law and things like democracy , free speech is not a good idea, better idea is to be happy as Chinese citizen and do whatever you are told sans freespeech. MW losers, go back to China now! Go back to your mother land! Hypocrites!!
Once again kudos for this excellent article and I thank Jamyang la for enlightening us on issues that many are not aware off.
Having said this, I do want to make a complaint to your webmaster for not managing the posts to some extent. It would not be right to vet the posts as this will make the discussions one sided but there are some commenters like NG who are abusing this blog. Legitimate points for and against the articles in blogs should definitely allowed but abusive language, innuendos and personal attack on Jamyang la and other commenters should absolutely not be allowed . If the discussions cannot be kept civilized and in topic, then I see no reason why the Webmaster cannot ban the posters for a period of time till they can agree to keep their foul language in check and discuss the issues at hand with relevant points.
If you fellow commenters agree please make a formal request to the webmaster. It is getting far too out of hand and is making it excruciatingly uncomfortable and nauseating to read and make sense of all the different viewpoints on the various articles while trying to sort through all the muck, mud-slinging abuse that is taking place here.
The whole premise of asking this specific question is very problematic. I wonder if the young student was that concerned with this issue, how come he did not see the swift clarification by Gaden Phodrang after Karma Choephel’s intervention at the Parliament. The follow up question, I feel explains the whole motivation behind this exercise.
There are many ‘genuine autonomy’ supporters who with such presumptuously say that HH and the CTA did not fight for Rangzen after 1979. Tell me when did the majority of Tibetans learn about it? After 1989 non? It is one thing to stand for autonomy and another thing to use HH to demonise Karma la and other Rangzen activists. The so called supporters of middle way approach are becoming like the extreme right wingers; with absolutely no respect for democratic rights and principles. If you don’t agree with them, you are either chinese agents or shugden worshippers. Do they realise that by asking for autonomy, but not challenging the communists party and not askign for democracy (as according the the poster boy sikyong) you are nothing but agents of chinese government. Like JN says, show your honesty and go back to china and earn the trust of our colonial master.
GYALPOT is right.
I encourage my children to read Jamyang la’s articles for I wish them well and would not want them to be slave of a dogma which is thriving in our society under the guise of loyalty,but the language used by some !!!
I am not for censorship but language used beyond a sense of decency should be rejected by our tireless webmaster.
I apologize to all for using filthy language above. This was the first time I have used such language in here as anyone can check my previous comments. I did this time out of utter frustration with these pro chingchong MW supporters who keep defending the constant revisions of MWP. If next year His Holiness and CTA claim that now there is no difference between MWP and the current Chinese regime then these same losers will attack anyone who question the exile leaders who make such claims. And also about swearing, this is started by the pro MW assholes like that anus eater NG.
@Gyalpot: Remember freedom of expression and speech, freedom to exercise my democratic right! Dont come down like kudras of past like JN’s ancestors lynching serfs on the land of lord. Face the crucial on point, not insignificant complaints! I still hold 2.5% of exiles are nothing more than a fart. How democratically either middle pather or rangzen wallas represent 97.5% of Tibetan’s aspiration? Through which democratic, electoral, and rational means? Or are you guys imposing your views onto 6+ millions in the land of snow and at the same time to achieve your filthy motive of self-interest?
NG
Jamyang La,
Thank you . That was a wonderful ariticle.
Jamyanla know that there is more to than what meets the eye at the happenings in the corridors of CTA. The goal is not Rangzen, definitely not. Yes, MW but to serve another agenda, best said by Samdong Rinpoche in a talk given at a felicitation ceremony for him at Sarah School three years back, when he said that if he served the Tibetan community it was only because of the wishes of his tsawai Lama and not because of his feelings for the tibetan people or patriotism towards the Tibetan cause.
I was, until I read this article, under the impression that the Sikyong did not know the Tibetan word for teacher. He, more than twice, used the mandarin word “Loashe” at the dinner hosted by the Council for Foreign Relations. I did not know that he was practicing his mandarin.
Getting frustrated and venting it out without any fear is what people inside Tibet are aspiring for. I hope they understand that Tibetans in exile are not fighting within ourselves and no one is destabilizing our fragile community, but engaging ourselves in most vibrant democratic practice whatever role CTA might have been attributed to by some discussants. Do not get bothered, we are on right curve of learning the system. I definitely enjoy reading different views on this site, some laden with real strong emotions. Folks keep doing what you are doing and thanks Jamyang la for playing the role of initiator.BOD GYAL LO always….
Shugden episode of course is most controversial.
Hi Respected Jamyang La, you are absolutely right, we rangzen fighter always with you. don’t be upset whatever people write bad on you. we knew that 99% middle way apporch people are blind faith, they don’t exam themself. whatever people said, please never give up. Rangzen will win. we need more people like you. you can’t loose coz, you just using democracy way. thank you jamyang La, keep it up. my whole family with you….
To: NG
I see that you may have some misunderstanding about democratic rights and duties. These rights do not give one unlimited and unfettered actions without consequences. If you truly believe in democratic rights then you realize that freedom of speech has some moral and ethical duties that are incumbent on you.
Freedom of speech does not mean verbally abusing and spitting on people for beliefs that don’t measure up with yours.
As for “Dont come down like kudras of past like JN’s ancestors lynching serfs on the land of lord.”
As a serf in exile I am treated with equal rights and have no axe to grind with any “Kudrak”, new or old; neither do I owe them anything or they me.
If you truly believe in “Democracy”, then it is time you put away your Kudrak monologue that the Chinese have drilled into you, and put forward your views with decency and respect for all others viewpoints.
Hi
It is time for those who merely talk Independence emptily without place their sincere hearts for the welfare of the 99% Tibetans who are living in Tibet. It is time for those sponges such as Jamyang Norbu stop vilify HH the Dalai Lama! It is time for those not constantly hijack HH the Daila Lama and 6 million Tibetans who are living In Tibet. To Those Rangzen talker, do you really care the well being of those 99% Tibetans living inside Tibet? I do not think so, otherwise, here is the question! How many of you, the ones who always talk about Rangzen and do nothing but to shout some slogans as showcase to attract attentions from outsiders, have physically and materialistically done something for the families of those who have committed self-immolation? Apart from talking Rangzen, there are so many ways where one can contribute to the Tibetans living inside Tibet! I have realized more and More that those who continuously and merely shout empty slogans and oppose HH the Dailai Lama are trying to help CCP to accelerate and eradicate Tibetan culture and identity and so forth.
It is time to stop using the name of 6 million Tibetans to get benefits and
Donations from all over the world to enrich some opportunists! It is time to release Dalai Lama from hijacking! Every single Tibetan who has burned himself or herself expressed their wish of the return of the HH the Dalai Lama, not Jamyang Norbu. I would rather live under the Communist region the people like Jamyang Norbu. To be honest, there are so many shitheads like Jamynag Norbu in the Exile society. I would like to tell you, 6 million Tibetans shall not need these sort people who suck them by using their names and create more hardships than help! Who want these kinds of fucking sponges who are enjoying their lives. For decades, some people are really enjoying shout some slogans on the street which in turn help them get millions of donations and become bosses.
I am sorry there are many mistakes in the writing because I was writing this on the way to work.
I see some people have this misinformation of ‘Western life is a comfee” thingii.
na na.children…just have a closer look at the toxic environment,the chemicals, the gm food now canned gm food, the diseases,the dysfunctional human body easily being infected by bugs not known.
not a comfee life my friend, just becoming a part of LAB RAT of the industrialized nations..welcome to new human species.
I would in a second move to remote part of Tibet if this issue is resolved.
Daveno: do you live in the west? Do you live under the Chinese? That is one of the most irresponsible comparison I gave seen in a while. Nobody is saying the west is the heavens and the east is the crotch. But comparatively speaking there is a vast gap in living standards..and that includes the air quality of Beijing.
In Tibet if you are not inclined politically, and live your life like a harmless domesticated animal, you have a very peaceful and satisfactory life because Communist party has enough to feed your belly (ask new comer from Tibet). So, it seems that few prefer to see we in exile live like harmless animals reared by CTA. Because, people like JN and few others do not like to be beholden to anybody, do not equate going against anybody. I know the importance of unity, but that do not mean that we have to agree with EVERYTHING that our government says (that sounds too similar to CCP). I as a common Tibetan, with little knowledge about politics, want to see a heterogenous society where people with different ideas coexist peacefully. I want to see live debate between the two groups on proper stage, I wish they teach in school all versions of our history (feeding just our version doesn’t help build critical thinking), Lang Dharma be stripped of “devil” label and referred to as “atheist” (or something proper belonging to this world). I just wish that we produce thinking citizen of Tibet.
Sonam, i agree with you.
Nomad, you can go live under CCP. Who is stopping you? Its disrespect and insult to the self immolators and others who continue to resist the CCP when people talk such shit like you. Shame on you!
tseringdolkar…have you asked a simple question about this ‘living standard’ to those say living happily in remote area close to Tibet. There doesnot exist such standard.
These so called standard are created by the marketing-political dominant genius to make those indoctrinated feel happy at home…just like the lab rats.
no such thing a responsible and irresponsible comparison.
And those who believe there is only one system of democracy….we as a society can have any system suitable for us…so stop imposing others democracy on us.
The most contentious chaos created irresponsibly by people like Jamyang Norbu and Karma Chophel, birds of a feather flock together, in the exiled society would have very little impact for the Chinese government to alleviate its repression on the Tibetans inside Tibet. However, it has indeed helped the exiled society by creating a rare stage for those who are angry at Dalai Lama to vent their dissatisfaction and ill feelings toward him. Interestingly, as everyone sees it here, the number is shockingly high. It has demonstrated, in a way, that there are so many Jamyang Norbu followers in limited environment of the exiled society. Most of them happen to be the English speaking Tibetans growing up in Exile society. Yes, it is your right to whom you follow! However, I would like to make assertiveness that people who are like Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choephel cannot lead you to get anywhere! If you disbelieve me give it a try! If Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choepphel have something to show to your punch of followers then please it is time to come out to demonstrate your capabilities and power instead of shouting empty slogans by hiding at a save place somewhere in Nashville, Tennessee. I would like to assert that people who are like Jamyang Norbu, Karma Choephel and their punch of followers will not help anything solve Sino-Tibet issue but to create more sufferings to Tibetans living inside Tibet! If merely talking something unrealistic and closer to mirage would help ease the pains and sufferings of the Tibetans inside Tibet then the world would not have filled with injustices and sufferings. I would like make another assertion that what the most of the exiled Tibetans eat and shit in their daily lives is obtained through the great benevolence of the HH the Dalai Lama, not from Jamyang Norbu Gangs. I firmly believe and predict that we all, one day, will realize how much HH the Dalai Lama has done for not only Tibetans, particularly Tibetans living in exile, but also to the world as a whole. People who are like Jamyang Norbu could die tomorrow and will not leave even a bit trace! 6 million Tibetans living Tibet wish to get the blessing of the HH the Dalai Lama, but not from Jamyang Norbu. No one knows who Jamyang Norbu is. To be frank, to this day I have never read any of his articles and had not heard of him. We have so many wise and intelligent Tibetans inside Tibet than English speaker Jamyang Norbu. The followers of Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choephel want to continue to enjoy watching Tibetans inside Tibet to burn until the last one. This is so obvious!
#90
The opportunists you mention are the ones who don’t want Tibetans to go and protest against the Chinese dignitaries because they don’t want their financial interests to be harmed. They expect Tibetans in Tibet to take it quietly and not cause China any troubles. I hear people saying that if Tibetans in the free world protest against Chinese injustice the Tibetans in Tibet start doing stupid things to jeopardize their own lives. That’s an insult to their intelligence and their moral compass. There are more astute, more literate and better educated Tibetans inside Tibet than outside it.
#96, is this what you really perceive that people
Who are living in Tibet must feel shame???!!!
99% Tibetan are living in Tibet but not living in exile to beg money from the west by using the names of the Exiles! Remember, your merely shouting some slogans on the free and safe streets in the free world would not help lighten the sufferings of the Tibetans living inside Tibet! Come one, do something practical to help them if your talking is really sincere!
Nomad
There are many like you bent on attacking Jamyang Norbu,I imagine you do not have it in you to understand him.
for to understand him and his writings…you would see that his fight is ‘transparency in our exile government’ ‘a functioning democracy of our govt-in-exile’ and ‘independence and democracy for our people back home’ he was also instrumental in drafting a resolution(TNC) where it states:
Wherefore, we recognize the sovereign independence of Tibet, based upon historical truth, international law, and the common desire of the Tibetan people in whom sovereignty resides.
Wherefore, we recognize the Tibetan Government-in-exile as the legitimate authority of the sovereign State of Tibet, and the legitimate representative of the Tibetan people, based upon its status as the legal continuation of the Ganden Podrang government of Tibet.
Wherefore, we recognize His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the reincarnation of the Bodhisattva Chenrezig, as the source of spiritual refuge for the Tibetan people.
Wherefore, we respectfully acknowledge the efforts undertaken in good faith by His Holiness and the Tibetan Government-in-exile for the past quarter-century, to reach a mutually beneficial solution with China.
and I imagine you have a problem with this !!
འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བའི་རྗེས་འགྲང་པ་རྣམས་ཀྱི་ཁ་ནང་ལ་གཏོར་མ་རྒྱོབ།
ནོར་བུ་རང་ལ་ཡོད་ཀྱང་ནོར་བའི་ཡོན་ཏན་མི་ཤེས་ཟེར་བ་དང་བོད་ལ་དྲིན་ཅན་བྱས་ཀྱང་དྲིན་མི་གོ་ཟེར་བ་དེ་ཅི་མི་བདེན།།
Excuse me! I almost forget to mention one thing that Jamyang Norbu has said in his foregoing article that “Tibetans have fears with the Dalai Lama.”
JN, I have no fears for the HH the Dalai Lama.” I merely respec what he has done for those exiles to feed their hungry stomach and thirty mouths by working days and nights!!! It seems as if People who are like JN do not understand it! However, some people do!!!
This guy Nomad previously known as NG is full of hatred and jealousy for Jamyang Norbu. Not worth responding.
Tenzin;
Hahaha, great! you personally know me!
I have no problem with Jamyang Norbu peronsally! The reason is that he unreasonelly vilifies the HH the Dalai Lama too much! He is worse than CCP! I would regard you as coward if you do not respond me! Come! I am waiting for your response if you have things to say!
@ sha-kham-po-la…
” many years back Jamyang norbu step sister was caught with kgs of heroin in darjeeing, his dad kungo lhawang lak mentioned that ‘he is not a Tibetan’ this is open secret”.
Dear, these kind of accusations trying to kill a point or person by dragging the past is equivalent to hindering the developmental processes in future…. present direction matters and, furthermore, the person at stake matters, not his or her families… (kindly leave these kinda nonconstructive appeal)…
I will come more on this issue…
have a fruitful exchange rather than nonsensical back-lashing….
PS: wish Karma choephel la come up with clarification or with his point on this issue… however, J.N la done his part… (but he is not a spokesperson of k.c la or..)..
cont….
Hahaha, the above named Tenzeng, great that you personally know me!
I have no problem with JN personally. The reason is that he has unreasonaly vilified HH more than enough!
I would call you, Tenzeng, a coward if you do not responde me assuming you have something!
NOMAD is eunuch trying to ingratiate dowager Samdong
Nomad
Just because the Dalai Lama has stuffed your hungry belly since childhood, educated you, gave you a job or a monk’s robe when you grew up, don’t mean, I, who have not lived on such handouts, should instantly assume head in dirt posture to whatever the Dalai Lama wants, especially when he at times talk politics out of his ass. You may be quite willing to sacrifice your kids to the Dalai Lama out of deep lust for him, but that does not mean all Tibetans should act the way you think.
People like you fantasize the Dalai Lama and superstitious Tibetan buddhism as more important than the nation of Tibet, similar to the Karmapa quote in the Times mag, “if we lose faith……without our buddhist religion in the Tibetan society, what is even the point of gaining Tibet back?”
Besides, your fortunate condition in India, of having full belly, a place to piss in, a roof over your head, education, these are due less to the Dalai Lama and more to the good graces of foreign nations and conscientiousness citizens in places like India, USA, Canada, etc along with wealthy philanthropists around the world generously donating huge sums of money and materials for decades to the Tibetan community in exile. Give them some credit too thankless beggar.
Now..
Sikyong stated:
a) democracy for Tibet was out and Communist Party rule was okay, b) genuine autonomy for Tibet could be for a limited duration, and c) China would have discretion over military deployment in Tibet. Specifically.
You obviously agree with the above points made by the Sikyong right?
So, in other words, people like you assume, the main motivation of Tibetans in Tibet setting themselves ablaze is because they are merely demanding an ethnic Tibetan “as the party secretary of Tibet autonomous region”? What is what they mean when they ask for “freedom”? Freedom for the Beijing regime to appoint an ethnic Tibetan Party Secretary?
If tomorrow, the Chinese Regime install the Dalai Lama as the new party secretary of Tibet Autonomous Region, you are going back? If not, just fuck off clown.
Dumbass Nomad.
If the Dalai Lama has been so beneficent to the “99% Tibetans living inside Tibet”, why has there been well over 100 self immolations to date?
Nomad/ Daveno
we will never forget cowards and opportunists like lobsang sangay and his co-opportunists, who has just one agenda i.e to use the platform to pursue their personal goals and ambitions.
once and for all i want to say, leave HH’s name out of this muck. HH has done the best he knew how and continues to do what he believes is best. I understand and respect his approach but that doesn’t mean that i cannot express my thoughts and feelings. I have a mind of my own, have lived long enough and have the strength of my conviction.
once again i’m telling you to go live under CCP if thats your aspiration.nobody stopping you. dont blame Jamyang Norbu and Karma Chomphel as obstacles to you and and your sikyong going under CCP.
Tenzing, you nuts-lab rat 2% can do nothing but ask pure Tibetan like us move away and you can live happily with your ramaluk gurjii.
hey khampa zuma, how much more are you capable of diluting yourself after coming into exile? You and your khampa zuma Sikyong. cant even speak one’s own phayul language and you have the galls to call yourself pure. you are the real ramaluk. Jamyang Norbu can speak his own ukay very well. I can speak my dialect very well. what about you, khampa zuma?
The oWl,
At this very moment, I guess, you must have felt comfortable and proud of what you have posted here as a gesture to oppose me, the Dumbass Nomad. Nonetheless, you, be worthy of your name, are a blind owl that cannot see and distinguish things right from wrong; furthermore, you were acting as drunk as a boiled owl! I am really laughing at you from the bottom of my dumbass! You have sounded that you are Richard Gere or Bill Gates, the great philanthropists. You might be! If you are really one of them Then i would apologize to you for posting this response! A part from your big talking, you have an unhealthy manner which caused me to have doubted whether you are really one of them!
Having made the foregoing statement, the one thing I would like clarify is that I am neither a religious fanatic or living by begging someone else! Thank for my own hard working disposition, I have worked with a decent job!
Ironically, history has itself occurred time and again! All of your postings against me have reminded me of the upheaval taking place in the whole region of Tibet in 2008 and As a Tibetan who was born on Tibet, raised in Tibet and educated in Tibet, I had dedicated myself to confront thousands of Chinese “fifty cents army online,” literally they have been recruited by the CCP to defend its government and they are knowingly paid fifty cents dollar. I had defeated thousands of them online every day! During one-year period, I was indulged in the war on the Internet to defend my country, people, culture, religion, of corse HH the Dalai Lama and of course those Tibetans living in exiles by posting English, Tibetan, and thankfully I speak and write a standard mandarin which helped me convince hundred of them. Sometimes I worked tirelessly until morning! laughably, I had not seen a single Tibetan joining me to even explain what had really happened and is happening over there! Yes, this is what we are so-called world. As a Tibet living in the western country, I have met so many Chinese people and whenever I get chance I try my best to elaborate what is happening in back my country!
By writing all this, I am not making myself look better nor eulogize myself for the limited work I have done for my nation! I merely stick to my position that dialogue is the best way to solve the Tibet- Sino issue even though there is no constructive response from CCP’s side! And I do believe the most beneficial way to maintain and protect Tibetan culture, language and identity and so forth is to find a mutually beneficial method which HH the pursues. And I personally believe it!
Otherwise, do we have some good ways to gain Ranzen? In what way? To use violence? To explode us by using suicide bombs to kill the innocent people? Or continue to encourage the Tibetans inside Tibet to burn themselves!!!!
How!!! If you have answers for these questions, please elaborate them! Thank you all!
And I am normally a quiet person without involving anything that harms our own people. Howeve, having read the article by JN, I cannot stand stepping aside to let people maliciously accuse HH the Dai Lama of groundless allegation! I had long thought that these Exlile Tibetans who had grown up under the protection of his wings and warmth would always stand up to speak up and defend him! Unfortunately, I have only seen a few of them! HH the Dalai Lama had
Worked tirelessly and enthusiastically for the well being of Tibbetans, particularly for those Exiled Tibetans who are the ones directly beneficiaries of the presence of he HH the Dalai Lama! I think we all pay due respect to him, not only in terms of religion, but also a great leader!
nomad, i understand your sentiments. and i know you mean well. but there’s no need to get so worked up. Jamyang Norbu is not villifying HH. His Holiness will always be our leader but we must be able to express how we feel when need to otherwise our society can get very stifled and that will be very unhealthy. please understand that we are not robots and we all don’t think alike. so if there’s breathing space for everybody, we will arrive at a good place.
Ok,
Tenzing la, by the way I am not NG. By the time you said that I was NG,
I did not quite get it. Now by reading some of the posts above I have realized that there is someone called NG! And this is the first time I use the name Nomad to post some thoughts as well as have openly had some arguments.
Nomad has some real good points. Tenzing, I like your composure. I remember one of my classmates longtime back saying (I was against him and used to despise his statement) that HHDL is because of Tibetan people, and not vice versa. I still do not agree with him. However, I believe that even if we were without HHDL at that crucial moment of history, world might not have ignored us. Yes, I really doubt that such successful and cohesive exile community would be possible without Him. It is our allegiance to Him. Its very clear from writings of JN that he considers HHDL’s presence crucial to our cause. HH is the common thread that binds all Tibetans from three provinces of Tibet united. Things become complicated when people representing Him do not handle issues maturely and/or with great care. When they inadvertently misrepresent their inferences as His’ words to the public, and taking it for granted that all is well when His name is associated. Its again not necessary to try put into practice every opinion that HHDL shares with us. HHDL must be desperate to see us function independent of his interference. He never said to CTA officials in public to use his name if need be to control unwanted elements just like he did to control/throw out Shugdhen followers from monasteries (I am not advocating that as right or wrong). There will be peace if we discuss just politics without invoking our spiritual beings…In free time, when we are done with politics, can go back and meditate on “compassion”, if still alive and sane.
Can we ban NG from the making comments here? He doesn’t make any sense. Give him time out for one week for using all these foul languages. Also, we must ignore him as he has no good points that was worthy of discussion.
Hello guys, lets take his holiness out of the equation- lets say His holiness keep mum on politics and goes to indefinite retreat in a remote area, and how MW people would defend our exile system and their policy vis-a-vis China.
Yes, MW policy is great and we have been pursuing this for the last 20 + years. during these times, China made clear they are not sincere while we claim negotiations are happening and Finally, our memorandum was completely rejected.
MW plan were unequivocally rejected by China, and you are still clinging on to the plan???
Don’t we hear Loud and clear— MW plan is not good enough..
Lets go back to the drawing board— and Rangzen could be another option if you really think carefully.
what do you say?
Yours AGU
Most of the MW people support MW policy because they have to survive:
Lobsang Nyandak is new Executive director of Tibet Fund– what you get as a token of appreciation when you support MW and become Samdhong and LS Chamcha.
Kalsang Gyaltsen still acts as DL representative- the position and designation doesn’t make sense at all. But he supports MW because he need to survive on CTA’s funding of his house which act as his office while he collects money as rent from CTA. If tomorrow he is out of job, he will change to Rangzen group.
Kalsang Gyaltsen baby sits at his house while he collects salary from CTA as His Holiness Representative and he collects rent from CTA as his house is being made as his office. Not a bad deal for supporting middle way.
They are many people like him who gain handsomely for supporting MW. JN knew he will not gain anything but scolding for pursuing Rangzen. But the man stood up for what he believes is right. Thats what we call integrity.
Just ponder over these few points.
Yours agu.
Sonam is right that Nomad has some real good points and I am sorry for my uncivil tongue in the previous post.
I have also stated many times on various blogs, that,(even though I am against MWP) whether Rangzen or MW, engaging with China via dialogues is essential and a mature thing to do, for if a couple don’t talk to each other, their relationship will suffer. So, in this regard, we are in mutual agreement.. And, I too have conversed with Chinese intellectuals online for few years, especially at Yahoo Politics, though alas, unlike you, I can’t boast that I have “defended thousands of them” nor have I “convinced hundreds.” Those I dueled with were usually the ultra nationalist, fundamentalist types, who won’t allow anyone to break the spell of Han chauvinism, jingoism. Ofcourse, it is rather egocentric to assume that “we” are the only ones confronting Chinese propagandists online. I am sure many in here have done the same, if not more.
Obviously I don’t have the answers to the Tibet-China impasse. I am not a card carrying Rangzen per se, even though I share many of their concerns. I don’t even think it is very fair to demand of individuals who critique MWP to come up with a ready made, set of ten step solution in opposition to the official MWP, for the simple fact that such individuals would have little to no standing or influence in pro MW Tibetan political arena. I’ve heard many times anti JN people moronically demanding of JN, “if you think you can do better, why don’t you go to CTA and change politics from within!!” As if CTA and Gaden Phodang are going to welcome individuals like JN with open arms, open minds, and give him equal opportunity to be heard in Dharamsala.
As a tax paying Tibetan, I do have the right to disagree with the Dalai Lama’s desperate gambit in order to expedite a Faustian bargain with the Chinese regime by shortsightedly giving up any claim to Tibet, as fast as possible, rushing headlong, out of control, like a run away train, when what might be more prudent, as when climbing a steep hill, slow the pace.
Ofcourse, many will say, we have no time! We never had time, so I been told for decades. Yet, for all the appeasements made over the decades and concessions still being drawn up as we converse, what tangible reciprocity have we garnered from China thus far? We all know that China has given nothing in return cept their middle finger to the multi revised, watered down middle way proposal. China returns our gifts with slander and vituperation against the Dalai Lama, who, god bless his noble soul, still professes deep compassion for the Chinese, yet, who, paradoxically, can’t find an iota of compassion for a fellow Tibetan Karma Chophel for exercising his democratic right to change his mind: the democracy that the man himself allegedly gave to his people in exile.
Sometimes I speak passionately but there is no animus toward the Dalai Lama. As if I haven’t said this enough, let me iterate for the Nth time, I think the Dalai Lama is a good person, I am sure he is way better than I can ever hope to be, but I do not see the Dalai Lama as more important than the Tibetan nation, which monks like Dalai Lama help to lose in the first place.
Nor do I have issues with fellow Tibetans, or their need for spiritual and emotional dependence on DL, I have no love for Tibetan buddhism for its superstition, for its fake tulku system the better to bamboozle people. Faith takes away responsibility from people and this is dangerous, however, this is beside the point today~~ the point is, when it comes to politics, it must be about TIBET, not about one man no matter how great we think he is. We all need to wake up, grow up and act like men(women too) We should carefully watch and analyse our leaders, what they say, what they do, critically, irreverently; fairly and honestly too. .
In politics, as in all things Tibetan, the Dalai Lama is the sun and the moon, who’s satellite, Dr Lobsang Sangy, takes his cues from the celestial one himself, playing the same ole zero sum game with China, giving sum, giving sum more, hoping against hope, that, sometime in future, there is going to be a huge payoff.
The Silkyong is a shrew politician who knows the heart of the fanatical, fickle mob, how in-sync they are with the Dalai Lama. For the PM, It pays to be a pure servant of the God-King, and as Dr, Sangay is the now the vessel for that force which moves the well oiled machinery of appeasement, the force that through the green fuse drives the flower, may, if not cautious, rendered superfluous the very notion of what it means to struggle for a nation and identity.
When i was in school in delhi,Dalai lama use to visit our campus for teachings and conferences, just by looking at him , my tears use to come out, may be it was because of respect and believe that i had for his holiness.My family worship him as god and whole world see him as symbol of peace, compassion and forgiveness.I m dead sure there are millions of tibetan who still have blind faith in his holiness. whatever he says will be right for them. People do die to just to get a glimpse of his holiness.
After looking at the video of press conference by his holiness , i was shattered, i couldn’t believe my self that those words came out from His holiness, who has been teaching forgiveness and asking all tibetans to forgive all the chinese who killed their ancestors,who is considered as manifestations of the bodhisattva of compassion, Avalokiteśva.
What will his holiness get , by proving that karma chopel has bad intentions, if something happens to karma chopel or some of hardcore his holiness believers do something to karma chopel tomorrow, will His holiness will take the blame on himself ?
I truely think His holiness owe’s apology to chithue karma chopel.
peace
j
All above opinions must lead to creating a society that is democratic not an autocratic as it has been for centuries. How do we resolve all these differences mechanism or forums like parliament or create rangzen based political party with proper registration and serious people to last generations because it is going to go fro generations.
One common underlying -in between lines- that comes out of Juju or the owl is his hatred against HHDL.
Juju, do you want me to expose your yesterday’s diary that you wrote in praise thee lord CCP,your paymaster.
@119, you sould pay attention to His holiness speech..you are the one making him some GOD king sort of stuff, His Holiness believes he is a common Tibetan simple monk. Your imagination has been amusing if shared more to us.
@115 sonam– “However, I believe that even if we were without HHDL at that crucial moment of history, world might not have ignored us.” You must have medidated long enough to foretell things that could have happen. Withou HHDL, we are just NUMBERS worthless to anyone.
All MWA supporters should ask what if the situation was reversed. What if the Dalai Lama supported Rangzen and JN supported MWA? What will you do then? Will you still support MWA?
If your answer is “NO”, then it is obvious, either you are driven by blind faith in HHDL OR by pure hatred towards JN OR you have Rangzen “in your heart”, which means you means you are currently a liar.
If your answer is “YES” then please tell me how will you express your opposition to HHDL’s stance without offending him or his supporters.
Jamyang Norbula,i enjoyed reading your article since many years back.But recently I notice in you a strong feeling of disapproval to HH .I never think you feel jealous of HH personal prestige and reputation.You have a strong nationalist feeling.More stronger than most of us because your nationalism is backed by your understanding and knowledge of our unique tradition and history.I deeply salute you for being a true Tibetan.You live as a warrior and definitely will carry on till you breath your last. But you can be easily misunderstood by our breatheren for being disloyal,disrespectful to HH. Your love of Nation commands you to respect its symbol.That is non other than HH The 14 Dalai Lama at present.This is what majority of Tibetans in and outside believe.And this belief too has historical backing like your strong feeling of Nationalism.I see the relation between Tibet and HH is like body and soul.If i am not wrong you started Dalai Lama bashing on His political standpoint.Its totally understandable.HH as both our spiritual and political head put extra burden on him.Even after His retirement from politics not only Tibetan people but the whole world see in him the unity,aspiration and integrity of tibetan nationalism.So please better be pro Tibet rather then anti Dalai clique.Thank you
@Kalsang Phuntsok: I think Dalai Lama will not make such an erratic decision. Because Dalai Lama does know the complex historical, political, cultural, and religious roles existing in himself. At the same times, all these roles not only morally contradictory, but also historically contradictory. Even if Dalai Lama pronounce Rangzen tomorrow, that does not change the fact Dalai Lama was not a political leader for more than 60% of Tibetan people outside political domain of Dalai Lama’s historical political authority, however, this 60% of population still look upto him as spiritual leader which used to be. In this historical context, CTA or exile government or administration run by anyone, legal continuation of Gangden Podrang and thus a legitimate government in exile of erstwhile Tibetan government in lhasa, but not a government to Tibetans to the east of Chamdo. Therefore, Tibetan government and Dalai Lama is a legitimate government of all TIbetans is not only historically incorrect, but factually manipulated by bunch of exiles. The fact at present is, Dalai Lama’s role of spirituality is outgrown his actual legitimate political roles as a legitimate political leader. Owing to his spiritual roles, many Tibetans who never governed by Dalai Lamas and Tibetan government run by kudras, considers as political leader due to his ability to cultural and religious articulation as well as preservation effort. Dalai Lama himself knows very well, he was not a political citizen of Tibet when he was born. He acquired the citizenship through his spiritual role. Therefore, from Dalai Lama’s personal historical perspective, independence is not only impractical, but also historically hard to back up, given the fact, major portion of Kham and entire amdo was not under Dalai Lama’s government for almost 3 century. What does this dilemma present to the people who support for independence, they should revise the historical definition of Tibet before China’s occupation and their inner conception of Tibet as cholkha sum. Rangzen people should give up one or the other. Either fight for independence for U-Tsang which has historical legitimacy and suck out the distorted view that Tibet as entire kham and amdo adding to U-Tsang. O such a historical basis, Jamyang Norbu should rewrite his case for rangzen and should articulate what Tibet is for him in terms of physical landmass. As of now, he is contradictory between his idea for Tibet and his writing about historical Tibetan independence.
I remember once JN was confronted with question of Tibetan government did not rule major part of Tibet to the east and north east, so what is view on it regarding his writing about rangzen? JN explicitly said, we first should fight for rangzen for U-Tsang alone, however, never give up claiming on amdo and kham. Therefore, Jamyang NOrbu’s followers should scrutinize their dear idol Jamnor the expert his true feeling and writing, and also contradictory nature of writing in light of historical fact. Given, these inaccurate and often misleading piece of essays, I was not impressed by JN merely writing in English. That means I am not a fool who can be brainwashed. I am neither impressed by Dalai Lama giving up his quest for non-existed TIbetan independence for whole of TIbet, rather I was impressed by his historical nuances, regional details, religious infights, and so forth. Then he set forth something that is worth of support by majority of TIbetans who lived side by side with majority Han CHinese and other minority like MOngols, and CHInese muslims and Sichuanese for generations!
NG
NG
NG, so what is your answer to my question.
@kalsang: I explained lack of historical proof will make DL never pronounce rangzen. Secindly, I gave an intellectual challenge to JN and his blind followers albeit with fanaticism. Plz rebutt my historical contradiction to jn’s claim for rangzen.
NG
Its high time that Tibetans should think rationally than to follow blindly whether right or left.
@127 NG
“I am neither impressed by Dalai Lama giving up his quest for non-existed Tibetan Independence for whole of Tibet, rather i was impressed by his historical nuances, regional details, religious insights and so forth”
What you mean by all that?
whether one is rangzen or mw is irrelevant when it comes to respecting HHDL. Everyone should be more respectful and tone down when arguing against his political stand.
#129
So you are supporting the Chinese claim and arguing against the right to Independence based on the fact that there was no Tibetan government in the modern sense three thousand years ago? Do you think there was a PRC that time? And a USA? And even a UK and Iraq, Iran etc?
And one important point: By your logic are you declaring that His Holiness was delusional when he was for Rangzen before thought of Middle Way?
Jamyang la, it is not fair to disposed SR and LS to concurrent Tibet situation. MWA wants to alter this status quo and seek much better and livable situations. The range autonomy for MWA is for the asking according to the given time. It can be as bad as SL was trying to highlight at the interview and it can be far more better than you expected. It all depends to how you negotiate with PRC leaders in given PRC situation. If you ask me -Will be this be better of than projected scenarios, I will say yes it will be better of because PRC’s rise will be stopped at some stage which is coming sooner than later. The weaker PRC will be easier to bring down for negotiation. Our key asset is the legitimacy which is still not yet given up and will be effectively there as long as HHDL and the exile refugee community. Diasporic population like you and me (citizens) will be accounted very little as things go by.
#133, Dorjee’s Ackhoo. (mine?)
He means H.H is Chinese and thereby shoudln’t be asking for Tibetan independence as he would be going against the motherland. And also that all those people who are Amdos are also Chinese by his own definition and their loyalties should be with the Chinese, and not the so called Tibetan govt of the Utsang region led by Kudraks. Why don’t you come out and say it, Mr.Ching Chong?
Daveno: respect means not hiding your true objections and feelings out of fear or faith. True respect is given when you are honest with your disagreement. Jamyang never said anything disrespectful just pointed out that H.H’s anger is misplaced and it should be properly directed at those who actually misrepresent him moreso than KC.
#124 Dear Tall, there are many other reasons why one country supports another country, I don’t think its just because of HHDL that we get such support. HHDL is definitely a major factor, but thats not enough to get what we are seeking. Even at the very beginning, supports came not because of HHDL, but because of other political reasons ( probably to counter rise of communism). Some great countries feared communism more than they loved/cared for Tibet or HHDL.
HHDL is very very important for our unity and strength, but may not be enough to gain political support. I do not want to dig deep, as I am sure you know it.
#124 Dear Tall, there are many other reasons why one country supports another country, I don’t think its just because of HHDL that we get such support. HHDL is definitely a major factor, but thats not enough to get what we are seeking. Even at the very beginning, supports came not because of HHDL, but because of other political reasons ( probably to counter rise of communism). Some great countries feared communism more than they loved/cared for Tibet or HHDL.
HHDL is very very important for our unity and strength, but may not be enough to gain political support. I do not want to dig deep, as I am sure you know it.
NG #129 “lack of historical proof will make DL never pronounce rangzen” what rot are you saying! As if China will give a damn even if we produce house full of proof. Don’t assume what HH will do or not do, you don’t know shit. Did you say “intellectual challenge”? Don’t make us laugh! There is nothing intellectual about what you post here, all you do is complain about how JN-la sucked your blood and idiotic stuff like that. And when you are stumped you resort to filthy language. Everyone here knows your number so quit it!
Dear pundatso,
I know that if anyone who blindly excuse His Holiness is unappropriate and also unacceptable for Tibetan and also fellow Buddists around the world. Regarding middle path, It is a new policy and on Tibetan side, we gave up our indepence to save our Buddhist culture from red china.We, Tibetan has been supporting mw for around 2 decades and still, we respect the policy of CTA. Moreover, CTA and TYC had been supporting and respecting each other for 60 years for our common goal.
Now, it is sad to see the division between Rangzenwala and U-may lam. frankly speaking, some of our politicians had misinformed His Holiness about TYC and creat this suspicious atmosphere in our strong exile community.
Here I request our independent newspapers and media to investigate this issue and hope to bring a true story about this contriversial issue. thank you.
I always think Karma choephel was comepletely wrong said that HH in His heart the Dalai Lama was advocating Independence.it’s wrong
JAMYANG NORBU …bullshit in his heart??
By Jay Gelek
Incredible! JN does it again. The man starts his latest gibberish on Phayul by hinting that the student who asked the KC question was perhaps a “set up by someone (probably older, definitely a politician) to pose this loaded question” and goes on to write, “But I could be wrong”. If you are a casual reader, you might not sense anything wrong with this sentence but as a trained reader, the absurdity and the inexplicable foolishness in this pithy sentence is inescapable and must I say reeks of chicanery. Here is why…
JN wrote “it seemed to me, he had been set up by someone”. The word “seemed” does not convey anything obvious in the English lexicon, it is often a word employed by those who are uncertain about an event, a situation or a circumstance etc. In that sense, JN is not directly accusing the student of being a plant but to him, the student just “seemed” like one. However, in the very next line, JN employs the words “probably older, definitely a politician”. Here is my question. How can anybody who “seemed” like a plant “definitely” be a politician? “Seemed” and “definitely” are two words that are often used in direct contradiction of one another in colloquial English. “Seemed” hints uncertainty while “definitely “screams” certainty.
Is JN suffering from rudimentary English crisis or is he trying to confuse the readers and muddy the discourse by “accusing” the courageous young man of being a plant without actually calling him a plant overtly. I suspect the later, given the man’s penchant for polemics. It is unfortunate how a loud few are intent on vilifying the brave student as a political mole rather than lauding him for having the balls to ask a very important question.
JN also makes a drab attempt to defend the indefensible. He writes that “Karma Chophel la didn’t actually say anything quite so bluntly, and what he did say he couched in a much more polite and respectful way”. The issue was never about if KC said what he said in an impolite and disrespectful way. It was about MISINTERPRETING the Dalai Lama’s words and intentions, especially when the misinterpretation reeked of the same BS that China enjoys slinging at the Dalai Lama. JN once again makes a feeble yet disturbing attempt to muddy the discourse by mixing facts. How?
Because, JN writes “His Holiness then went to declare quite heatedly, that Karma Chophel had made Him, the Dalai Lama, into a liar when he said that the Dalai Lama spoke about autonomy from his mouth, while in deep in his heart he advocated Independence. His Holiness asked “Is there any purpose in making me into a liar?” His Holiness also emphasized that in his dealing with people internationally he had always been absolutely honest and straightforward on this issue”, however JN follows these lines with” I do not think that Karma Chophel la needs any defending (never mind the fact that, that is exactly what he is doing, although badly) . He is a seasoned parliamentarian, one who had been an effective Speaker for many years before, and his decision to come out openly and withdraw his earlier support for the Middle Way policy was an admirably gutsy one”.
There is no factual relationship between the Dalai Lama’s heated declaration that KC was turning him (the Dalai Lama ) into a liar and JN’s inkling that KC’s “support for the Middle Way policy was an admirably gutsy one” yet his blatant attempt to create a relationship is not only misleading but disturbing. The Dalai Lama was visibly peeved at KC because KC misinterpreted him and not because he decided to “come out openly and withdraw his earlier support for the Middle Way policy” as sheepishly implied by JN. KC grossly misinterpreted the Dalai Lama and it does not matter if he did that “politely or respectfully” for it does not assuage the damage done.
JN’s post is teeming with outrageous and insufferable ideas that it is impossible to take the man seriously even in an inebriated state of mind. Here is probably one of the most outrageous of all. He writes that “ at least one thousand MWA followers, to start with, should return to Tibet (or the PRC if you like), in order to live there and work with the Chinese authorities to create the atmosphere of trust and mutual respect that will ensure the success of MWA. This first contingent should be led by someone well versed in the arcana of MWA doctrine, so that he could clarify the all-important details to the Chinese authorities, and opportunity arising, even expound on it to the Chinese masses. I can think of no one more suitable than Professor Samdong Rimpoche, who has set himself up at the grand ideologue of the MWA doctrine. Another indespensable person to lead this contingent is Doctor Sikyong Lobsang Sangay (formerly of Harvard Law) who has stated time and again that China’s constitution has provisions to allow the implementation of MWA. Now he will have a hands-on opportunity to develop and prove this theory”.
JN insinuates that in order to assure mutual respect and success of MWA , supporters of MVA (1000 of us ) should go back and live in Tibet to do an experiment of sort with Samdhong Rimpoche as the leader. If that is the logic, shouldn’t he (JN) go back to Tibet and lead the Rangzen people and start a war to assure that his thinking will succeed “to throw out China’s occupation army”? I can’t think of anyone more suitable than JN for he has set himself up as the grand ideologue of the Rangzen doctrine. (ahem)
By the way, how does JN figure to “ throw out China’s occupation army” without actually fighting them and going into Tibet. Egypt did not topple Hosni Mubarak from exile, Tunisia did not topple Ben Ali from exile, Libya did not topple Gaddhafi from exile. They all fought hard from within. If that is not enough, here is another example that we can all relate to in a deeper way. India did not over throw the British Raj by protesting from exile, India shed blood and fought hard for her independence. Bapuji, realized that writing articles and criticizing the British establishment from South Africa would never amount to much and decided to return to India and the rest as you know is history.
Is JN willing to show us how he is going to “throw out China’s occupation army”? If he believes middle way supporters should return to Tibet to “ensure” success of the MWA than let me ask him to return to Tibet and fight the occupying force to ensure that the Rangzen movement that he so dearly expounds will succeed to (in his own words) “throw out China’s occupation army”. According to his logic, it is a question only fair to be asked.
It does not surprise me that a man as small as JN in his thinking actually believes that Tibetans will “ start pouring out in the streets howling for Karma la’s blood, as they surely will now that they have the convenient excuse that Karma la made His Holiness angry”. This is not only malicious in nature but also a rude and false indictment of all Tibetans that hold the Dalai Lama dear in their hearts. Irresponsible comments like this is gut wrenching and impossible to digest because they are wrong and dangerously irresponsible. They make outrageous comments like this that deserves utmost scorn and then they pretend like they are being unfairly persecuted when held accountable. Comments like this serves only one purpose, it further emboldens the Chinese when it comes to attacking the Dalai Lama as a “ narcissistic” leader capable of silencing all his detractors. But if we bring this up and make an issue of it the weasels who make these reckless comments in the first place will curl their tails between their legs and cower behind the cloak of Rangzen.
RANGZEN IN YOUR HEART MY FOOT, ITS MORE LIKE BULLSHIT IN YOUR HEART.
what these sort of hard hitting essay has to write by jamyang la is because LS made him to pen down.
After he choose to become electlly head of the CTA . He had made many promises to the people of Tibet . But look now .,how much he had contribute as he promised during election campaign.
He runs Tibetan community by divide and rule policy as against his policy : innovations,unity and self reliance.why i said these words is that just see recent appointment of ARE dhoncho Kaydor is the best example.
i would say how many years Kaydor has worked in Tibetan community especially in CTA.
how many qualified CTA senior staff who are fit that post. who is the next Delhi dhoncho ; it maybe choechung wangchuk. just see.
please judge who is dividing cho kha sum ? u would say Lobsang Sangay is making it. He is really as cunny as fox.
Unity: uniting with the communist Chinese
Innovation: inventing ways to further dilute Tibet’s status into a meaningless communist satellite without any rights nor any restriction against Chinese.
Self-Reliance: promoting himself and his cows all across the globe. Also making sure all his friends get good postings such as Ari Dhonchue and head of Tibet fund, you know where the money resides.
Thanks for teaching us Tibetans a valuable lesson in international politics.
If new Delhi Doncheo appointment is followed suit as in US -it will be saddest day in CTA’s history -should treated as heights of nepotism.
The way you give respect ( la ) to Karma choephel la and there is no any ‘la’ to Sikyong lobsang senge la and speaker Penpa Tsering la, it is clearly shows that you are not good person you are trouble maker in our community.
@127 NG
Great that because of the nuances of HH’s “historical perspectives” you think he is more reasonable. Good to know that. But you know you are forgetting the bigger picture. This so-called ‘historical truth’ is full of loopholes.
This line of argument that somehow an independent Tibet will not guarantee freedom for Tibet with the three traditional provinces of Utsang, Amdo and Kham. And that somehow genuine autonomy will guarantee that. The argument used is that when Ganden Phodrang ruled Tibet, it never had a total control over the whole of three provinces of Tibet. And so did not PRC. The PRC that we know of today was never under the control of one government, forget about its claims on Taiwan, the Spratly islands, Aksai Chin etc. One look at all the countries today in the United Nations and their history and their borders in the past, this inference that somehow due to historical complications we cannot demand independence for Tibet will fall flat on its face. No country today denies India’s right to be an independent country with her present border because different rulers were ruling different parts of her when she was colonised. No country today denies that Nice is not a part of France because in the past it was ruled by Italy than by France.
@135 tsedor,
we can have open disagreement with anyone in this world.its how we PRESENT our disagreement with HHDL is my point…be more respectful while presenting disagreement DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY to HHDL political comments.
To those “Rangzen” fighters:
You have possessed “Rangzen”in your Mouths all the time and now is the time to possess it in your hands through your bold actions! I am glad to see the courage of those who Want “Rangzen.” You have expressed so much resentments and ill feelings towards the Dalai Lama! You all tend to place every possible excuse on the Dai lama!
However, the Dalai Lama has not curbed you all at cells! I would be happy to see you taking concrete actions to gain “Rangzen”. Go ahead and get it. If you are all men and get the gut as you talk! You all sound that as if someone desperately stops
you from heading the Rangzen path! Trust me, no one will stop you if you get the gut to do so!
To gain Rangzen, First you may need some training camps which JN la might provide you at his home near countryside Musical hall! Then you need to obtain some weapons! And you may need to collude with some terrorists in Afghanistan or Pakistan where many of them have made their training camps. By doing so, you have taken the first and foremost step toward “Rangzen.”
It is very clear…Rangzen supporters see the power in transparency in government due to democratic ideals. Middle Way supporters are happy being led around by the ring in their noses as one would expect in a monarchy or communism.
བོད་བུ།
“RANGZEN IN YOUR HEART MY FOOT, ITS MORE LIKE BULLSHIT IN YOUR HEART.”
བོད་བུ། Thank you so much for articulation! What you have written is so authentic and is nothing but the truth!
I like this party particularly so much “Is JN willing to show us how he is going to “throw out China’s occupation army”? If he believes middle way supporters should return to Tibet to “ensure” success of the MWA than let me ask him to return to Tibet and fight the occupying force to ensure that the Rangzen movement that he so dearly expounds will succeed to (in his own words) “throw out China’s occupation army”. According to his logic, it is a question only fair to be asked.”
JN and his followers should at least take a bit concrete step toward Rangzen! Merely citing vague yet malicious distortion of HH would be deemed as coward and loser!
Here is the suggestion for JN and his followers as JN has given the same for middle way followers “to go back to Tibet to undergo some experiment.” now is the time for JN followers to ready to go back to Tibet with some necessary preparations, which I am sure you all should have as you have this ambitious goal for decades, to get Rangzen! Please go ahead and no one will stop you! As a Tibetan, once you all get there I would give you moral support, maybe some donations if urgent! And then I will deem you all heroes not losers!
Tibet struggle is not for a particular person and it should not be in that way. Nor the leaders should think that it should be resolve based on their policy and lifespan, thinking something has to achieved no matter what is good or bad.
Tibet struggle should be based on the principles that our forefathers and greater generations had strive for. We must not smashed their ideals by foot.
It is so sad to see current situation in exile administration, can not have a different opinion, even having a good motivation,others interpret in a different way. Remember we can not crticize china,unless we exercise ourselve first on free speech,expression,religion and good management.
Why can not private office called and arrange a meeting for our expert like jamyang norbu and listen to their opinions and their side of thinking.i think it is a healthy way and will send a positive environment on our society specially young generation like us.
The other day I was talking with parents and they r like now a days so much bashing is going around on bodshung and u be careful and keep ur mouth shut. I was like mom, if they r not right we need to say something,and she was like although they r wrong on issues we need to stick because of hhdl. We will have sins, I was like c’mon,if u see something say something. My parents generation is always in the faith and afraid zone no matter what they r dealing for.
Look at china today, in the space for 15 days amazing for their development while in exile young bloods r in turmoil due to hhdl sadness(samdhong speech to tyc).
Mark #149
Very true that. And if one of the cows decides to give up his nose-ring than these docile cows turn into hyenas and attack.
Nomad and བོད་བུ།.
No shame. Up to now only Rangzen fighters have gone back to Tibet to fight. People who have parachuted from planes and from Mustang walked with rifles to fight for Rangzen. And JN went too. What have MWA types like you have done NOTHING, NOTHING. Only kissing ass of powerful, hoping to become dhoncho or shengo or kalon. No sacrifice. Now even MWA negottiors Gyari and Kalsang ganzen are too scared to go to China, just to talk. Pathetic people all MWA types. You deserve to be Chinese citizens.
The guy who posted questions to His Holiness is a ex varna student, Samdong’s student. He is not a full time student but a part time student. He is a married man. The questions he asked to His Holiness is not a clear question. He told His Holiness that he heard from somebody about the chitue. That mean, he didn’t check chitue Karma Chomphel’s statement at parliament. And his second question is also target on KC. It was about religious chitue. Hence his both of questions are designed to fire chitue Karma Chomphel. I am sure his questions is not come from him. It was made by few guys.
His Holiness has always been honest, forthright and clear with his communication.
No more floundering, dilly-dallying & in denial of our govt’s Political commitment.
JN’s suggestion of putting to PRACTICE our Middle way policy is faithful to the mission of the policy: Send a contingent of 1000 brave MWA followers to Tibet to start the process of building ‘trust & mutual respect’ with Chinese authorities.
This is a good thing to speed up the process. Could Jamyang norbu draw up a proposal of such mission to his representative in north america (tashi or norb tsering).
These transitional events is confusing everyone.
Gay Gelek is a stellar example of someone who cannot see beyond his own nose, that myopic vision that so much inflicts most if the Muddleway supporters. He focuses in the most idiotic aspects of JN’s write up and picks and chooses his sentences. That is as dishonest as it gets and somehow middlepathers think they have some sort of divine right to do that simply because they support HH plan. He completely avoids how other prominent Muddlepathers like Penpa Tsering, Lobsang Nyendak and Sikyong did the very same thing and Kundun was fine with it? Lets read the gist of the whole article here:
“In every discussion or argument I have had with MWA followers – and I have had many, even public debates with such luminaries of the MWA faith as Sikyong Lobsang Sangay, Speaker Penpa Tsering and the Dalai Lama’s Representative in New York, Lobsang Nyendrak – invariably at one point or another during the discussion the claim will unfailingly be made by the MWA discussant that though he or she absolutely supports the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way Approach, that he or she also absolutely has Rangzen “in his or her heart”, as do all Tibetan people. The MWA discussant will then go on to explain that the Dalai Lama implemented the MWA policy only because the very survival of the Tibetan people was being threatened, and that it was the only option we had, and that the Dalai Lama, without question, still had Rangzen in his heart, as all MWA faithful did, only they were much more practical and realistic about it, unlike “the full independence” (Rangzen tsangma) crowd who were just emotional and fanatical.
The inherent contradiction in this bizarre semantic concoction is obvious. Yet no matter how seemingly ridiculous, it can be seen as an all too human response to an impossible dilemma. An extreme case of living in political denial. People love (or fear the Dalai Lama) very much, and believe that it is an enormous sin to disobey him, yet at the same time they are unable to completely give up an ideal and a dream for which they had struggled and sacrificed for many decades in exile. But bizarre as it may seem the “Rangzen in Your Heart” argument is a widespread phenomenon, so much so that Sikyong Lobsang Sangay la reworked it into his campaign platform as “U-Rang” claiming that he supported both the Middle Way (Umay Lam) and Rangzen, and it helped him win the elections! ”
How come HH does not say one word to those who truly misrepresent him loudly and vociferously while he crashes down the house on one lone person? Is it because they are Muddleway suppoorters? Or is this anger actually directed more so at his rejection of his prized Muddleway approach? Does a parliamentarian not have a right to his own opinion? Similarly, was his holiness really hurt by TYC or by them daring to attend a Rangzen meeting hosted by Tibetan National Congress? Could that be why Samdhong Rinpoche started this drama in TYC in the south and forced TYC to even promise not to have any dealings with Tibetan National Congress?
Think about it. Muddleway is slowly losing its support due to the total failure and the further dilution of its stance and it is only holding up simply because HH still supports it. That is why this heavy clampdown on Rangzen people and the black marking prominent Rangzen supporters like JN, Karma Chomphel, the TYC and the mysterious ‘one -three people’. It is not democratic and moreover is reeking foul smells of Autocracy. It is misuse of power and privilege. And now Muddkeway people have the audacity to suggest both sides are vilifying each other when ur is pretty clear who has the real power and who are actually defending themselves and before were merely practicing freedom of speech and information.
སྐད་རིགས་སྣ་མང་ཤེས་ན་བཟང་མོད་ཀྱང། རང་གི་ཕ་སྐད་མི་ཤེས་ངོ་ཚ་ཆེ། ཁ་ནས་རང་བཙན་སྒྲོགས་པའི་འུར་རྒྱག་ཅན། དངོས་ནས་རང་བཙན་དུང་བ་ཨེ་ཡིན་ནམ། ཡིན་ན་ཅ་ཅོ་་རྐྱང་བ་སྒྲོགས་ནས་ཅི་ལ་ཕན།
ལོ་ན་ཆུང་དུས་རྩམ་མར་ཟ་ཨེ་མྱོང་། འབྲི་མར་སེར་པོ་ཁ་ལ་རེག་ཨེ་མྱོང་། གཡག་རྒན་ནག་པོ་དངོས་སུ་མཐོང་ཨེ་མྱོང་། གཡང་དཀར་ལུག་གི་འབའ་སྒྲ་ཐོས་ཨེ་མྱོང་།
ཁ་བཤད་དོན་ལ་གནས་ན་ལུགས་དང་མཐུན། གཡོ་སྒྱུ་རྫུན་འཕྲུལ་འཁྲབ་ན་ཐ་ཤེལ་འབོད།
ཐུབ་བསྟན་ལུང་རིགས།
༄༅།། བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་དོན་དམ་གྱི་རང་དབང་དང་། འདྲ་མཉམ། དྲང་བདེན། ཆིག་བསྒྲིལ་ལྡན་པའི་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཚད་ལྡན་འདི་འདྲ་ཞིག་བྱུང་བ་ནི་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོ་སྐུ་རྐྱང་གིས་ཐུགས་བརྩོན་ལྷོད་མེད་མུ་མཐུད་གནང་བ་ཁོ་ནའི་དྲིན་ལས་བྱུང་བ་མ་གཏོགས། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གིས་ཐུགས་བརྩོན་དེ་ལྟ་བུ་ཞིག་གནང་མེད་ཚེ་མང་ཚོགས་རང་ངོས་ནས་གསར་བརྗེ་དང་ལེགས་བཅོས་ཐུབ་མིན་རང་རེའི་སྤྱི་སྒེར་གྱི་བསམ་སྤྱོད་ལ་དཔག་ན་ཚེགས་མེད་དུ་རྟོགས་ནུས། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ལ་གཞི་མེད་ཀྱི་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་དང་མཚན་སྨོད་ཞུ་མཁན་གྱི་བོད་མི་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་བདེན་རྫུན་ཁྱད་མེད་ཀྱི་གང་དྲན་སྨྲ་བརྗོད་བྱེད་པའི་ནུས་བ་དང་རང་དབང་དེ་ཡང་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ལས་བྱུང་བ་དཔྱོད་ལྡན་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་མི་ཤེས་པ་ཅི་ལ་སྲིད།
དེ་ཙམ་ལ་བསམས་ནའང་སེམས་ལྡན་ཞིག་ཡིན་ཕྱིན་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་ཞུ་བའི་གཞི་རྩ་བྲལ་བ་མ་ཟད། མཚན་སྨོད་ནི་དེ་བས་ཀྱང་ཞུ་ཐབས་ག་ལ་ཡོད། འོན་ཀྱང་སྙིགས་ལྔའི་རྒུད་ཚོགས་ལྷག་པར་བདོ་བའི་མཚོན་རྟགས་ལྟ་བུར་བོད་མིའི་ཁྲོད་དུའང་ལས་བསོད་དམན་པའི་སྐྱེ་བོ་ཧ་ཅང་ཉུང་ཤས་ཤིག་གིས། འཇམ་མགོན་ས་པཎ་གྱིས། “ཁྭ་ཏས་མི་གཙང་ཟོས་པའི་མཆུ།། ས་གཙང་དག་ལ་འབད་དེ་འཕྱིས།།” ཞེས་དང་། རྗེ་གུང་ཐང་པས་ཀྱང་”སྐྱེས་བོ་དམ་པར་ཕྲག་དོག་གིས།། སྨོད་པ་རང་གི་དམའ་འབེབས་ཡིན།།” ཞེས་གསུངས་པ་ལྟར་རང་སྐྱོན་གཞན་འགེབས་ཀྱི་གནས་ཚུལ་ངོ་ཚ་བྲལ་བ་ཞིག་ཡིནཔས། སློབ་དཔོན་ཆེན་པོས། “བོད་ལ་དྲིན་ཆེན་བྱས་ཀྱང་དྲིན་མི་གོ།” ཞེས་པའི་ངང་ཚུལ་ཐོག་ཏུ་བབས་པར་སྣང་།
དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་དང་ཁྲིམས་ཀྱི་དབང་སྒྱུར་གཉིས་ཁ་བྲལ་མི་རུང་བ་ཞིག་ཡིན་པ་དང་། ཡུལ་མི་མི་རེ་ངོ་རེས་རང་དབང་གི་ཐོག་ནས་ཐོབ་ཐང་དང་། དེས་ཟླས་དྲངས་པའི་ལས་འགན་གཉིས་ཀ་ལེགས་པར་ངོས་ཟིན་ཞིང་། ལག་ལེན་དུ་བསྟར་བ་ཞིག་མ་བྱུང་ན་ཁ་ཙམ་གྱི་དམངས་གཙོ་ལས་དོན་དམ་གྱི་དམངས་གཙོ་ཡོང་ཐབས་མེད། སྨྲ་བརྗོད་ཀྱི་རང་དབང་ཞེས་པ་གཞི་མེད་རྫུན་གཏམ་དང་། གང་ཟག་ལ་དམའ་འབེབས། སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་ཅལ་འདྲོགས་ཡོང་གཞིའི་རིགས་སྨྲ་བརྗོད་ཀྱི་རང་དབང་ཡིན་པའི་དོན་དུ་མི་གོ དེར་བརྟེན་དམངས་གཙོའི་རིང་ལུགས་ (Democracy) དང་། ཁྲིམས་མེད་རིང་ལུགས་ (Anarchy)གཉིས་ཀྱི་ཁྱད་པར་འབྱེད་ཤེས་པ་དགོས་རྒྱུ་ཤིན་ཏུ་གལ་ཆེ།
རང་གི་འདོད་བློ་མ་ཁེངས་པའི་འཁང་ར་དམངས་གཙོའི་སྨྲ་བརྗོད་རང་དབང་དུ་བསྙད་དེ་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་སྐུ་སྒེར་དང་ཁོང་གི་མཛད་བྱུས་གཉིས་ཀར་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་དང་། ཟུར་ཟ། མཚན་སྨོད་བཅས་ཞུ་མཁན་ཆེས་ཉུང་ཤས་ཤིག་ཡོད་པའི་ནང་ནས་རྩོམ་པ་པོ་གྲགས་ཅན་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ནི་འདས་པའི་ལོ་ངོ་ ༣༠ཡས་མས་ཀྱི་རིང་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་ཁོང་གི་མཛད་བྱུས་གཉིས་ཀར་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་མུ་མཐུད་གནང་མཁན་ཞིག་ཡིན་པ་དང་། ཁོང་གི་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་ཁག་ལ་སྐབས་རེ་ཟུང་ཙམ་ལ་ལན་འདེབས་འགྲེལ་བརྗོད་ཐོན་པ་ལས། མང་ཆེ་ཤོས་རང་བཞིན་སྣང་མེད་དུ་ལུས་འདུག དཔྱོད་ལྡན་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་ལན་འདེབས་བགྲོ་གླེང་བྱ་འོས་སུ་མ་གཟིགས་པའམ། ཡང་ན་དོན་མེད་ཀྱི་ཁ་དམག་ཏུ་ཞུགས་འདོད་མེད་པ་ཅི་རིགས་ཡིན་སྲིད། འོན་ཀྱང་གལ་གནད་ཆེ་བའི་གནས་ཚུལ་རེ་ཟུང་ཙམ་ལ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཀྱིས་ངོ་ཤེས་པ་དང་དེབ་ཐེར་དུ་འཇོག་ཆེད་གསེད་བཀྲོལ་ཞིག་མ་བྱས་ན་གནའ་བོའི་བོད་ཀྱི་གཏམ་དཔེར། ”མི་གཅིག་བཤད་ན་བདེན་བདེན་འདྲ། རྟ་གཅིག་རྒྱུགས་ན་མགྱོགས་མགྱོགས་འདྲ།།” ཟེར་བ་ལྟར་ཐོས་བརྩོན་ཉུང་བའི་སྐྱེ་བོ་གཡམ་རྒྱུགས་པ་རེ་ཟུང་གིས་ཡ་མཚན་ཚད་མར་མི་འཛིན་པའི་ངེས་པ་མེད་པར་བརྟེན། འབྱུང་འགྱུར་མི་རབས་རྣམས་ཀྱི་ཆེད་གནས་ཚུལ་རེ་ཟུང་མ་སྤེལ་ཐབས་མེད་བྱུང་།
རྩོམ་པ་པོ་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ཀྱི་གསུང་བཤད་དང་། རྩོམ་ཡིག བཅར་འདྲི་སོགས་ཤིན་ཏུ་མང་བས་ཡོངས་སུ་རྫོགས་པ་བརྗོད་ཀྱིས་མི་ལངས་མོད། དཔེ་མཚོན་རེ་ཟུང་ཟུར་འདོན་གྱིས་དཔྱད་གླེང་བྱ་རྒྱུ་ཡིན།
༡ ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༩༧ ལོར་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་བཅར་འདྲི་ཞིག་གི་ནང་ “…Who is speaking for them? And I don’t think His Holiness is speaking for them. Neither is Richard Gere nor His Holiness, his friends out in the West. They are talking about a very specific Tibet; they’re talking about the monks and nuns. Yes, of course, we love the monks and nuns and we respect them. But, we are the ones who pay the taxes in the end. We are the ones who support the monasteries. You know, when the monasteries are attacked, we are ones who fight.” ཞེས་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་བོད་མིའི་མགྲིན་ཚབ་པ་མིན་པ་དང་། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་ནུབ་ཕྱོགས་པའི་གྲོགས་པོ་ཚོས་གྲྭ་བཙུན་རྣམས་ཀྱི་ཆེད་མ་གཏོགས། བོད་རིགས་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་ཀྱི་སྐོར་བཀའ་མོལ་གནང་གི་མེད་ཚུལ་བཅར་འདྲིའི་ལན་དུ་བཀོད་འདུག དེ་ནི་མངོན་སུམ་ལ་བསྙོན་པ་ཞིག་ཡིན་སྟབས། རིགས་པས་དཔྱད་གླེང་བྱེད་འོས་སུ་མ་མཐོང་། བོད་རིགས་སྤྱི་དང་། ཁྱད་པར་གཞིས་བཞུགས་བོད་མི་ཡོངས་ཀྱིས་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོ་ཉག་གཅིག་བོད་མིའི་མགྲིན་ཚབ་པ་ཡིན་པར་རྒྱུ་མཚན་གྱི་ལམ་ནས་ཡིད་ཆེས་བློ་གཏད་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་ཅིང་། དེ་ནི་དངོས་དོན་དང་མཐུན་ལ། རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནས་ངོས་འཛིན་ཡང་ཐོབ་ཡོད།
བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་བརྒྱ་ཆ་དྲུག་ཆ་བརྒལ་བ་ནས་བོད་མིའི་རྩ་དོན་འཐབ་རྩོད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ནས་དུས་ནས་དུས་སུ་རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་ནང་དང་། རྒྱ་ནག་གི་འགྱུར་འགྲོས་བཅས་ལ་གཟིགས་ཏེ་ཐུགས་ཐག་གཅོད་རྒྱུའི་གསོལ་འདེབས་དང་དེ་ལ་སྤྱི་འཐུས་གྲོས་ཚོགས་ནས་སྤྱི་མོས་ཀྱིས་མང་མོས་ཐག་གཅོད་འོས་བསྡུ་དང་ཁྱད་མེད་ཡིན་པའི་གྲོས་ཆོད་གཏན་ལ་ཕབས་པ་དེས་ཀྱང་བཤད་ཐུབ་པ་ཡིན། ད་ཆ་༧གོང་ས་ཆེན་པོས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་འགན་དབང་ཆ་ཚང་རྩིས་སྤྲོད་གནང་ཟིན་ནའང་། བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་བཅའ་ཁྲིམས་རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་དོན་ཚན་དང་པོ་གཞི་རྩའི་ལམ་སྟོན་ནང་” ༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་བཅུ་བཞི་པ་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་བོད་མི་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་རང་དབང་ལྡན་པའི་མགྲིན་ཚབ་པ་བཅས་ཡིན་”ཞེས་གསལ་བཀོད་ཡོད་པ་འདིས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ཐུགས་འགན་བཞེས་པའི་སྐབས་ཙམ་དུ་མ་ཟད། ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ཐུགས་འགན་བཤོལ་བའི་རྗེས་སུའང་བོད་མི་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་མགྲིན་ཚབ་པ་ཡིན་པའི་ངོ་བོ་ལ་འགྱུར་བ་མེད་པའི་གནས་བབ་བསྐྱར་ནན་གྱིས་གསལ་སྟོན་བྱས་ཡོད།
༢ ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༢༠༠༢ ལོར་ “After the Dalai Lama”༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་རྗེས་སུ་” ཞེས་པའི་རྩོམ་ཡིག་ནང་“Yet, in truth, the absence of the Dalai Lama would not altogether be a bad thing for the Tibetan struggle…… The Dalai Lama’s presence in Tibetan political life is somewhat like the giant Banyan tree, whose shade is pleasant but under which little grows. Tibetan ministers give the appearance of being no more than messenger boys, and members of Parliament fall over each other in their eagerness to agree with him. The Dalai Lama himself has remarked upon the dilemma of his omniscient leadership, but has done little to resolve it. His absence might be just the thing that allows mature democratic institutions to take root. To be sure, without His Holiness’s presence there is danger of dissension within refugee society. But exiled Tibetans already have a half-century of experience in the rough-and-tumble of India’s robust democracy. Surely they are ready for their own. …… Tibetans genuinely love the Dalai Lama, but his lofty ideas on world peace and universal compassion probably find more enthusiastic subscribers in California than in Tibet.” “ཞེས་བདེན་དོན་དུ་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་མ་བཞུགས་པའི་དུས་སྐབས་ནི་བོད་མིའི་འཐབ་རྩོད་ལ་ཁྱོན་ཡོངས་ནས་ཞན་ཆ་ཞིག་མིན་” ཞེས་དང་། “བོད་མི་མང་པོས་ཁོང་གིས་བསྟན་པའི་ལམ་ལ་དྲི་རྟགས་བཀོད་ཟིན་ཅིང་། འགའ་ཤས་ཀྱིས་ཁོང་མ་བཞུགས་ན་བོད་མིའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཟོས་བདེ་ལྷོད་དལ་གྱི་འཁྲུལ་སྣང་ལས་སད་པར་བྱེད་པའི་ཡིད་ཆེས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་” ཅེས་དང་། མུ་མཐུད་དེ་ “བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་མི་ཚེའི་ནང་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ངོ་བཞུགས་ཡོད་ན་བྱང་ཆུབ་ལྗོན་ཤིང་ཆེན་པོ་ལྟ་བུ་ཞིག་ཡིན། དེའི་གྲིབ་བསིལ་ཡིད་དུ་འོང་བ་ཞིག་ཡོད་ཀྱང་། དེའི་འོག་གང་ཡང་སྐྱེ་འཚར་མི་ཐུབ་” སོགས་བཀོད་འདུག་པ་ནི་དངོས་ཡོད་གནས་ཚུལ་དང་གཏན་ནས་མི་མཐུན་པ་མ་ཟད། ལུང་འདྲེན་བསྐྱར་བརྗོད་བྱེད་རྒྱུའང་འཇིགས་སྣང་སྐྱེ་གཞིའི་བརྗོད་ཚིག་ཅིག་ཏུ་སྣང་། བོད་མི་དང་རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་བསམ་པར་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ངོ་བཞུགས་མེད་པའི་དུས་སྐབས་ལ་རེ་སྒུག་བྱེད་མཁན་རྒྱ་ནག་མི་དམངས་སྤྱི་མཐུན་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ཀྱི་མགོ་ཁྲིད་རེ་ཟུང་ཙམ་ལས། དེ་མིན་འགྲོ་བ་མིའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་དེ་འདྲའི་བསམ་བློ་ཡོད་མཁན་ཡོད་སྲིད་པའི་ཚོད་དཔག་བྱས་མེད་མོད། བོད་རིགས་མཁྱེན་ཡོན་ཅན་ཞིག་གིས་དགོངས་པར་དེ་ལྟར་འཁོར་བ་ནི་བསམ་བློའི་ཡིད་ལ་ཤོང་དཀའ་བ་ཞིག་རེད།
རྨོངས་ཞེན་དོར་ཏེ་རྒྱུ་མཚན་ཡང་དག་གི་ངོས་ནས་དཔྱད་ན་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཀྱི་མིང་དང་། ངོས་འཛིན། ཕུགས་འདུན་རེ་བའི་འབྱུང་ཁུངས་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ཉག་གཅིག་ཡིན་པ་བོད་མི་ཙམ་མ་ཟད། རྒྱ་མི་མང་པོ་ཐེ་བའི་འཇིག་རྟེན་སྐྱེ་འགྲོ་ཡོངས་ཀྱིས་ངོས་འཛིན་དང་ཡིད་ཆེས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད། འཇམ་ནོར་གྱི་གསུང་བབ་དེ་རིགས་ནི་གཞི་མེད་ཀྱི་རྟོག་བཟོ་འབའ་ཞིག་ཡིན་པ་མ་ཟད། གཞིས་བྱེས་བོད་མི་མང་ཚོགས་སྤྱི་དང་། ཁྱད་པར་བསྟན་སྲིད་ཀྱི་དོན་དུ་རང་སྲོག་མཆོད་སྦྱིན་དུ་འབུལ་མཁན་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་ལྷག་བསམ་དང་མངོན་འདོད་གཉིས་ཀར་རྩིས་མེད་རྡོག་རོལ་དང་། དམའ་འབེབས་གནང་བ་ཞིག་ལས་འོས་མེད་པ་ཡིན། རྒྱ་དམག་གིས་བོད་དུ་བཙན་འཛུལ་བྱས་པ་ནས་བཟུང་ད་ལྟའི་བར་འདས་ལོ་ ༦༠ བརྒལ་བའི་རིང་བོད་མི་རིགས་དང་། བསྟན་སྲིད་ཀྱི་དོན་དུ་ལུས་སྲོག་དོར་བའི་དཔའ་བོ་དཔའ་མོ་སྤྱི་དང་། ཁྱད་པར་འདས་ལོ་ཁ་ཤས་ནང་རང་ལུས་མེ་མཆོད་དུ་འབུལ་མཁན་གྱི་དཔའ་བོ་དཔའ་མོ་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་ཕུགས་བསམ་དང་། མངོན་འདོད་ཅི་ཡིན་ཉི་ཤར་སྦར་མོས་ཁེབས་ཐབས་མེད་པ་ཡོངས་གྲགས་སུ་གྱུར་ཡོད།
རྩོམ་པ་པོའི་དགོངས་ཚུལ་ལྟར་ན། འདས་ལོ་ ༥༠ བརྒལ་བའི་རིང་བཙན་བྱོལ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་སུ་བོད་རིགས་ནུས་ལྡན་སུའང་སྐྱེད་སྲིང་མ་བྱུང་བ་ལྟ་བུར་སྣང་རུང་། དངོས་དོན་དུ་ཆབ་སྲིད་དང་། དཔལ་འབྱོར། རིག་གནས་གང་ཅིའི་ཐོག་གཞན་དྲིང་མི་འཇོག་པའི་ཁྱད་ལས་པ་དང་། མགོ་ཁྲིད་མི་ཉུང་བ་ཞིག་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་ཐུགས་རྗེའི་གྲིབ་བསིལ་འོག་འཚར་ལོངས་བྱུང་ཡོད་པ་ཀུན་གྱིས་མཁྱེན་གསལ་མ་ཟད། དེང་སྐབས་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་གཞུང་མང་གཉིས་ཀའི་ནང་གི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་དང་སྣེ་མོ་ཕལ་ཆེར་འདས་ལོ་ ༥༠ ནང་འཚར་ལོངས་བྱུང་བ་རྣམས་ཡིན།
༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་འཚོ་བའི་ནང་ངོ་བཞུགས་མེད་པར་ད་ཆ་ལོ་གཉིས་ལ་ཉེ་བ་སོང་ཡོད་པ་དེའི་རིང་བོད་མི་རྣམས་ཟོས་བདེའི་འཁྲུལ་སྣང་ལས་ཇི་ཙམ་སད་ཡོད་མེད་ཀྱང་མངོན་ཐུབ་པ་དགོས་རྒྱུར་སྣང་། རྩོམ་པོ་པོ་འཇམ་ནོར་ལགས་ཀྱིས་ཡུན་རིང་ནས་རེ་སྒུག་གནང་བའི་ཐུགས་འདུན་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་དུ་མ་བཞུགས་པའི་དུས་སྐབས་དངོས་སུ་ཤར་ཟིན་སྟབས། ད་ཆ་དམིགས་བསལ་རྩལ་འདོན་ཇི་འདྲ་ཞིག་གནང་རྒྱུ་ཡོད་རུང་གནང་རན་པའི་དུས་ལ་བབས་ཡོད།
གོང་དུ་ཞིབ་བརྗོད་ཟིན་པ་ལྟར། དམངས་གཙོའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་ཡུལ་མི་མི་རེ་ངོ་རེས་རང་འཁྲིའི་འཁུར་འགན་བླངས་ཏེ་ཆབ་སྲིད་དང་། སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ཞབས་འདེགས་སྒྲུབ་དགོས་པ་ལས། བོད་མི་དང་འབྲེལ་བ་མེད་སའི་ཁུག་ཀྱོག་ཅིག་ཏུ་འགན་ཁུར་མེད་པའི་སྨྲ་ལྕེ་ཚོད་མེད་གཡུག་པ་ཙམ་གྱིས་ཡུལ་མིའི་མཚན་ཉིད་ཚང་བ་དང་ལས་འགན་སྒྲུབ་པར་མི་བརྩི།
༣ ཡང་རྩོམ་པ་པོ་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༢༠༠༥ ལ་བཏོན་པའི་རྩོམ་ཡིག་ཅིག་གི་ནང་ Of course, people must be allowed their beliefs no matter how ridiculous or wrong we may perceive them. I believe people have the right to worship Shugden or any other deity they want, while the Dalai Lama as a spiritual leader certainly has the right to object to this on theological grounds and ask people to refrain from such practices. But that is not the problem. The trouble is that the Tibetan government has been inducted to implement the Dalai Lama’s proscription of Shugden worship. The Tibetan government claims it has not issued any orders or appeals to people to harass or fight Shugden worshippers. Yet it has produced and distributed literature and videos demonizing Shugden worshippers. It has furthermore made no effort to discourage or condemn attacks on Shugden groups.ཞེས་མི་རྣམས་ཀྱི་རང་རང་གི་ཡིད་ཆེས་རྣམས་ང་ཚོའི་ངོས་ནས་ཇི་ཙམ་ནོར་འཁྲུལ་དང་བཞད་གད་ཀྱི་གནས་སུ་མཐོང་ནའང་། ཁོང་ཚོར་དེ་འདྲའི་ཡིད་ཆེས་བྱེད་རྒྱུའི་ཐོབ་ཐང་སྤྲོད་དགོས།
མི་ཚོར་ཤུགས་ལྡན་བསྟེན་གསོལ་བྱེད་རྒྱུའི་ཐོབ་ཐང་ཡོད་པ་ངས་ཡིད་ཆེས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་ལ། མཉམ་དུ་༧གོང་ས་༧སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་ལའང་ཆོས་ཀྱི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་ཡིན་པའི་ཆ་ནས་ཆོས་ཀྱི་རིག་པའི་གཞུང་ལུགས་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་བསྟེན་གསོལ་མི་རུང་བའི་བཀའ་སློབ་གནང་རྒྱུའི་ཐོབ་ཐང་ངེས་པར་དུ་ཡོད།” ཅེས་སོགས་དང་། ཡང་མུ་མཐུད་དེ། Now more than ever, Tibetans absolutely need to move away from the world of superstition, oracles and magic into the real world of the 21st century.” ཞེས་ད་ཆ་ནི་བརྒྱ་ཕྲག་ཉེར་གཅིག་པའི་དངོས་དོན་གྱི་འཇིག་རྟེན་འདིའི་ནང་བོད་མི་རྣམས་རྨོངས་དད་དང་། ལྷ་ཁོག་ཞུགས། མིག་འཕྲུལ་སོགས་ལས་ངེས་པར་དུ་ཐག་རིང་དུ་བསྐྱོད་དགོས།” སོགས་ཇི་སྙེད་ཅིག་བྲིས་འདུག་པ་དེ་དག་རང་ཚིག་དངོས་ཤུགས་དང་། ཁས་བླངས་སྔ་ཕྱི་འགལ་བ་ཤ་སྟག་འདུག་པ་ནི།གནད་དོན་གང་ཞིག་གསལ་སྟོན་གནང་འདུན་ཡིན་པ་རྟོགས་དཀའ་བར་སྣང་། མི་ཚོར་བཞད་གད་བྱ་ཡུལ་གྱི་ནོར་འཁྲུལ་ལའང་ཡིད་ཆེས་བྱེད་རྒྱུའི་ཐོབ་ཐང་དགོས་ཚུལ་གསུངས་མ་ཐག་པའི་མཇུག་ཐོག་ཏུ། བརྒྱ་ཕྲག་ཉེར་གཅིག་པའི་དུས་ཀྱི་དངོས་དོན་དང་བསྟུན་ཏེ་རྨོངས་དད་སོགས་ལས་ཐག་བསྲིང་དགོས་པའི་འགལ་འདུའི་གནས་ཚུལ་གཉིས་ཀྱིས་རང་གི་དམ་བཅའ་རང་གིས་བཤིགས་པ་དང་། བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་གཞུང་གི་ངོས་ནས་དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲང་པར་དྲང་བདེན་མིན་པའི་དབྱེ་འབྱེད་དང་། ཆད་གཅོད་སོགས་གང་ཡང་གནང་མེད་པ་ཁུངས་སྐྱེལ་རྭ་སྤྲོད་ཡོངས་ཁྱབ་ཏུ་གནང་ཟིན་ཡང་། ད་དུང་དེ་ལྟར་ཡོད་པའི་བསྙོན་འཛུགས་དང་། དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲང་བ་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་མི་གསོད་ཁྲག་སྦྱོར་འཇིགས་སྐུལ་རིང་ལུགས་ཀྱི་བྱ་སྤྱོད་ཇི་ཙམ་སྤེལ་བ་ཀུན་གྱིས་མངོན་སུམ་དུ་གྲུབ་པ་དེ་དག་སྣང་མེད་སྦས་བཀབ་གནང་ཕྱོགས་ལ་གཞིགས་ན་རྩོམ་ཡིག་འདི་དག་གཟུ་བོའི་བློས་རྒྱུ་མཚན་ལ་བརྟེན་པའི་དཔྱད་གཏམ་ཞིག་མ་ཡིན་པར། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་ལ་མཚན་སྨོད་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་ཞུ་རྒྱུ་ཉག་གཅིག་དམིགས་ཡུལ་དུ་བཟུང་སྟེ། མཁྲིས་ནད་ཅན་གྱིས་དུང་སེར་པོར་མཐོང་བའི་ངང་ཚུལ་ལས་མ་འདས།
མཚམས་འདིར་བོད་གཞིས་བྱེས་གཉིས་ཀྱི་མགྲིན་ཚབ་སྤྱི་ནོར་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་གི་མཛད་འཕྲིན་མུ་མཐའ་མེད་པ་ནས་ཆུ་ཐིགས་ཙམ་ཞིག་དགག་དགེའི་དབང་གིས་འགོད་པར་བྱེད་པ་ལ། འཇིག་རྟེན་སྤྱི་དང་། ཁྱད་པར་བོད་མི་ཡོངས་ལ་བཟོད་དཀའི་དཀའ་རྙོག་སེལ་ཐབས་དཀའ་བ་འདི་ལྟ་བུ་ཞིག་བྱུང་བའི་དུས་སྐབས་སུའང་། བཟང་ཕྱོགས་ནས་བལྟས་ན་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་བཅུ་བཞི་པ་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་གིས་བོད་ཀྱི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་མངའ་དབང་བདག་གིར་བཞེས་ཏེ་བོད་རྒྱ་མི་རིགས་གཉིས་ཀྱིས་མཚོན་འཇིག་རྟེན་སྤྱིའི་བདེ་ཐབས་ལ་ཐུན་མོང་དང་ཐུན་མོང་མིན་པའི་རླབས་ཆེན་གྱི་མཛད་པ་བསམ་བརྗོད་ཀྱི་ཡུལ་ལས་འདས་པ་ཞིག་སྐྱོང་གནང་མཛད་པ་ནི་སེམས་ཅན་སྤྱི་མཐུན་གྱི་ལས་བསོད་ཁྱད་པར་བ་ཞིག་གི་འབྲས་བུ་ཡིན་ངེས་ཀྱང་། བོད་མི་རེ་ཟུང་གིས་གནད་དོན་འདི་མ་རྟོགས་པར་གོ་བ་ལོག་སྒྲུབ་ཏུ་སོང་བ་དེ་ནི་ཞུ་མར་འོག་གི་གྲིབ་ནག་ལྟ་བུ་རང་ཉིད་ཀྱི་ལས་བསོད་དམན་པ་ཁོ་ན་ལས་མ་འདས།
འོན་ཀྱང་མ་རྟོགས་པ་དང་ལོག་པར་རྟོག་པའི་གཞན་དབང་དུ་སོང་བའི་བོད་མི་རེ་ཟུང་གིས་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོའི་ཡོངས་ཁྱབ་ཀུན་ཕན་གྱི་མཛད་བཟང་ལ་རང་འདོད་དང་མ་མཐུན་པའམ། རང་དོན་མ་འགྲུབ་པ་ཁོ་ན་རྒྱུ་མཚན་དུ་བྱས་ཏེ་ཟུར་ཟ་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་ཞུ་མཁན་དེ་དག་ནི་སྙིང་རྗེའི་ཡུལ་ལས་མ་འདས་མོད། གཟུར་གནས་མང་ཚོགས་ཀྱིས་དེ་དག་སྣང་མེད་དུ་བཞག་ན་ངན་པ་ལང་ཤོར་འགྲོ་གཞི་མ་ཟད། ཅང་མི་སྨྲ་བས་དང་དུ་ལེན་པ་ལྟ་བུའི་འཕྲལ་རྐང་འཁྱོག་བཤད་ཀྱི་གཞི་རྩ་དང་། དུས་ཡུན་རིང་པོའི་རྗེས་བྱུང་རབས་གསལ་ཆ་མེད་པའི་སྐྱོན་ཅན་བཅས་སུ་འགྱུར་ཉེན་ཡོད་སྟབས། སྐབས་མཚམས་སོ་སོར་འགྲེལ་བརྗོད་གསལ་བཤད་དགོས་གལ་ཆེ་ཡང་། རང་རེ་མང་ཚོགས་གསེར་བོང་མཉམ་གཟིགས་ཀྱིས་ཆགས་བྲལ་བ་ལྟ་བུར་བཞུགས་པ་ནི་ཞན་ཆ་ཞིག་ལས་བཟང་སྤྱོད་ག་ལ་ཡིན། ཆགས་སྡང་མེད་པའི་གཟུ་བོའི་བློས་ལེགས་ཉེས་གནས་ལུགས་དངོས་དོན་རྣམས་འགྲེལ་བརྗོད་བྱེད་དགོས་པ་ནི་ཡུལ་མིའི་ལས་འགན་གལ་ཆེ་ཞིག་ཡིན་པས་བདག་གིས་འབད་པ་ཡིན། མཚམས་འདིར་༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་བཅུ་བཞི་པ་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་ཅི་ཙམ་བོད་བསྟན་སྲིད་མི་རིགས་དང་བཅས་པར་བཀའ་དྲིན་བསམ་གྱིས་མི་ཁྱབ་པ་ཡིན་པ་རྩོམ་པ་པོའི་དགོངས་པར་མཁྱེན་བཞིན་མ་མཁྱེན་པའི་ཚུལ་གྱི་སྨག་རུམ་ལ་མཛད་པའི་འཕྲིན་ལས་ཀྱིས་འོད་སྣང་ཅུང་ཞིག་སྤྲོ་རྒྱུ་ཡིན།
༧གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་བཅུ་བཞི་པ་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་གི་རྒྱ་ཆེ་མུ་མེད་ཀྱི་འཕྲིན་ལས་ནམ་མཁའ་དང་མཉམ་པ་དེ་དག་ནི་སར་གནས་སེམས་དཔའ་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་དཔོག་པར་དཀའ་ན་སོ་སྐྱེ་རང་ག་བ་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་ཆ་ཙམ་ཡང་དཔོག་མི་ནུས་མོད། ཐུན་མོང་གདུལ་བྱའི་སྣང་ངོར་གྲགས་ཤིང་གྲུབ་པའི་མཛད་འཕྲིན་རེ་ཟུང་རྒྱ་མཚོ་ནས་ཆུ་ཐིགས་བླངས་པ་ལྟ་བུ་ཟུར་ཙམ་སྨོས་ན། ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་མངའ་དབང་བཞེས་མ་ཐག་དབུས་གཙང་ཆོས་ཀྱི་ཞིང་སར་དྲག་གནོན་དམག་འཁྲུགས་མི་བཟད་པའི་འོག་སྐྱ་སེར་མང་ཚོགས་ཕལ་མོ་ཆེ་ལུས་སྲོག་འཇིག་པའི་ཉེན་ཁ་ལས་བསྐྱབས་ཏེ་ཞི་མཐུན་གྱི་འགྲིགས་ཆགས་དང་། ༧གོང་ས་སྐུ་ཕྲེང་བཅུ་གསུམ་པ་ཆེན་པོའི་མཛད་འཕྲིན་གྱི་འཕྲོ་བསྐྱངས་ཏེ་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་དུ་སྒྱུར་ཐབས་སུ་བོད་ལྗོངས་ལེགས་བཅོས་ལྷན་ཚོགས་ཆེད་འཛུགས་ཀྱིས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ལེགས་བཅོས་དང་། ཆབ་འབངས་བདེ་བར་འཚོ་ཐབས་ཀྱི་ཐབས་ལམ་དུ་མ་ཕྱག་བཞེས་སུ་བསྟར་བ་དང་། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༥༤ ། ༡༩༥༥ ལོར་རྒྱལ་ས་པེ་ཅིང་དུ་ཞབས་སོར་འཁོད་དེ་མའོ་ཙེ་ཏུང་གིས་གཙོས་པའི་རྒྱ་ནག་མི་དམངས་སྤྱི་མཐུན་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ཀྱི་ཆེས་མཐོའི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་ཁག་དང་མཇལ་འཛོམས་བཀའ་བསྡུར་གྱིས་བོད་ལྗོངས་དམག་སྲིད་ལྷན་ཁང་འཛུགས་འཆར་དེ་དག་བོད་རང་སྐྱོང་ལྗོངས་གྲྭ་སྒྲིག་ཨུ་ཡོན་ལྷན་ཁང་གི་ངོ་བོར་བསྒྱུར་ཏེ། སྐབས་འཕྲལ་ཛ་དྲག་གི་ཉེན་ཁ་དུ་མ་ལས་གཡོལ་ཐུབ་པ་དང་། སྐབས་དེར་རྒྱ་གར་གྱི་སྲིད་བློན་ནེཧ་རུ་མཆོག་དང་མཇལ་འཕྲད་ཀྱིས་བོད་ལ་ནུས་ལྡན་གྱི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་མེད་པའི་ལོག་རྟོག་བསལ་ནས་བོད་མིའི་འབྱུང་འགྱུར་གྱི་མདུན་ལམ་ལ་རེ་བ་གསར་པ་ཞིག་གི་ས་བོན་རྒྱ་གར་གྱི་མགོ་ཁྲིད་རྣམས་ཀྱི་བསམ་བློར་ཐེབས་པ་དང་། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༥༦ ། ༡༩༥༧ ལོར་རྒྱ་གར་འཕགས་པའི་ཡུལ་དུ་༧ཞབས་སོར་འཁོད་དེ་རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་ནང་བོད་དང་བོད་མིའི་ངོ་སྤྲོད་གསར་བསྐྲུན་དང་། རྒྱ་གར་གྱི་ཆེས་མཐོའི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་རྣམ་པ་དང་ནང་མོལ་ཞིབ་ལྷུག་གི་ལམ་ནས་འབྱུང་འགྱུར་དགོས་གལ་སྐབས་ཐུགས་བློ་གཏད་ཡུལ་གསར་བསྐྲུན་མཛད་པ། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༥༩ གསུམ་བཅུའི་གྱེན་ལངས་རྗེས་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་བོད་གཞུང་བཀའ་ཤག་བཅས་འཕགས་ཡུལ་དུ་བཙན་བྱོལ་གྱི་བོད་མིའི་ཁྲིམས་མཐུན་གྱི་གཞུང་དགའ་ལྡན་ཕོ་བྲང་གི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་རྒྱུན་ཉམས་ཆག་མེད་པར་བཙན་བྱོལ་གཞུང་གི་ངོ་བོར་འཛིན་སྐྱོང་མཛད་ཐུབ་པ། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་ཕེབས་རྗེས་སུ་འབྲང་བའི་བོད་མི་སེར་སྐྱ་ཕོ་མོ་དྲག་ཞན་རྒན་བྱིས་འབུམ་ལ་ཉེ་བར་གནས་སྐབས་ཟས་གོས་གནས་མལ་གྱི་དཀའ་རྙོག་བསལ་ཅིང་། རིམ་བཞིན་ཕུགས་བརྟན་འཚོ་ཐབས་གཞིས་ཆགས་ཁག་མང་གསར་བསྐྲུན་གྱིས་བཙན་བྱོལ་བའི་གནས་བབ་གཞན་དང་མི་འདྲ་བར་བོད་རིགས་བཙན་བྱོལ་བ་སུ་ཡང་ཟས་གོས་གནས་མལ་འཕྲོད་བསྟེན་གྱིས་ཕོངས་པ་མེད་པར་རང་དབང་ལྡན་པའི་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ཁག་གི་ཡུལ་མི་དང་འདྲ་མཚུངས་སུ་འཚོ་གནས་ཐུབ་པ་བྱུང་བ། ལྷག་པར་བོད་རིགས་ན་གཞོན་ཡོངས་ལ་བོད་ཀྱི་གནའ་སྲོལ་དང་། དེང་རབས་ཀྱི་ཤེས་ཡོན་གཉིས་ལྡན་གྱི་སློབ་གྲྭ་ཁག་མང་གསར་འཛུགས་མཛད་དེ་བོད་མི་ན་གཞོན་གཅིག་ཀྱང་སློབ་སྦྱོང་གི་གོ་སྐབས་མ་ཐོབ་པ་མེད་པར་མཛད་པ་དང་། ཆོས་དང་། རིག་གཞུང་། ལེགས་བྱང་། ལྷག་པར་ནང་དོན་རིག་པའི་གཞུང་ལུགས་སློབ་གཉེར་གྱི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཁག་ཉམས་མེད་རྒྱུན་གནས་ཐུབ་ཆེད་རིས་མེད་ཆོས་ལུགས་ཆོས་བརྒྱུད་ཚང་མའི་བཤད་གྲྭ་སྒྲུབ་གྲྭ དགོན་སྡེ་སོགས་རང་དབང་དུ་རང་འདོད་བཞིན་གསར་སྐྲུན་ཐུབ་པ་དེ་དག་ནི་ཡུལ་དུས་གནས་སྐབས་གང་ནས་གཞིགས་རུང་བསམ་ཡུལ་ལས་འདས་པའི་ངོ་མཚར་དངོས་བྱུང་ཞིག་ཡིན་པ་དང་། ཁྱད་པར་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་རང་བཞིན་ཡང་དག་པའི་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་དུ་བཙན་ཐབས་སུ་བསྒྱུར་འཁྲིད་མཛད་རྒྱུའི་དགོངས་བཞེད་བླ་མེད་ཀྱིས་སྐབས་དེའི་བོད་མིའི་བསམ་སྤྱོད་དང་འཚམས་མིན་ལ་མ་ལྟོས་པར་ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༦༡ ལོར་ཆོལ་གསུམ་ཆོས་ལུགས་དང་བཅས་པའི་དམངས་ཚོགས་ནས་འོས་འདེམས་བྱས་པའི་སྐུ་ཚབ་ཡོད་པའི་བོད་མི་མང་སྤྱི་འཐུས་ལྷན་ཚོགས་གསར་འཛུགས་ཀྱིས་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལ་སྲོལ་དབུ་བརྙེས་པ་མ་ཟད། ཆོལ་གསུམ་ཆོས་ལུགས་དང་བཅས་པའི་གོང་བུའི་ནུས་པ་སླར་གསོ་མཛད་དེ། བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་བྱུང་རབས་ནང་ལེའུ་གསར་པ་ཞིག་གསར་གཏོད་དང་འབྲེལ། དེ་ནས་བཟུང་མང་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་བསམ་སྤྱོད་དང་འཇོན་ཐང་གིས་ལྕོགས་མིན་ལ་མ་ལྟོས་པར་༧གོང་ས་ཆེན་པོ་སྐུ་ཉིད་ཀྱིས་བྱིས་པ་མཛུབ་ཁྲིད་ལྟ་བུས་ལོ་ནས་ལོ་བསྟུད་ཀྱིས་སྤྱི་འཐུས་ལྷན་ཚོགས་རིམ་པས་རྒྱ་བསྐྱེད་དང་འབྲེལ་ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༩༠ ལོར་སྲོལ་རྒྱུན་བཀའ་ཤག་ཕྱིར་བསྡུའི་ཐོག་བར་བརྒལ་བཀའ་ཤག་དམིགས་བསལ་ཚོགས་ཆེན་ནས་འོས་བསྡུ། ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༡༩༩༡ ལོར་སྐབས་བཅུ་གཅིག་པའི་སྤྱི་འཐུས་ལྷན་ཚོགས་སྤྱི་འཐུས་ ༤༦ བར་གྲངས་སྤར་གྱིས་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་བཅའ་ཁྲིམས་གཏན་ལ་ཕབ་སྟེ་བོད་མི་མང་སྤྱི་འཐུས་ལྷན་ཚོགས་ཁྲིམས་མཐུན་ཁྲིམས་བཟོ་ལྷན་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ངོ་བོར་བསྒྱུར་བར་མཛད་པ།
ཕྱི་ལོ་ ༢༠༠༡ ལོར་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་བཅའ་ཁྲིམས་བསྐྱར་བཅོས་ཀྱིས་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་བཀའ་བློན་ཁྲི་པ་ཐད་ཀར་མང་ཚོགས་ནས་འོས་འདེམས་བྱེད་སྲོལ་གཏོད་དེ་བོད་མིའི་དམངས་གཙོའི་འཕེལ་རིམ་གོང་མཐོར་གཏོང་བ་དང་། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གསེར་ཞལ་འཚོ་གཞེས་སྐབས་སྲོལ་རྒྱུན་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་མངའ་དབང་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་འོས་འདེམས་བྱས་པའི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་ལ་རྩིས་སྤྲོད་གནང་རྒྱུའི་སྟ་གོན་ལེགས་པར་མཛད་དེ། མཐའ་དོན་ ༢༠༡༡ ཕྱི་ཟླ་ ༥ ཚེས་ ༢༩ ཉིན་སྲིད་ཕྱོགས་ཀྱི་སྐུ་དབང་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་འོས་ཐོན་མགོ་ཁྲིད་ལ་རྩིས་སྤྲོད་ཀྱིས་རིང་ནས་ཐུགས་ལ་བརྣགས་པའི་བཞེད་དགོངས་ཡང་དག་པའི་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཡོངས་སུ་རྫོགས་པར་མཛད་པ་སོགས་ནི་ཀུན་གྱི་བློ་ཡུལ་དུ་ཤོང་དཀའ་བའི་ངོ་མཚར་རྨད་བྱུང་གི་མཛད་རྗེས་ཡིན་ཞིང་། ༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་མེད་ན་བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཡང་དག་པའི་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་དུ་ལོ་གྲངས་ ༥༠ ཙམ་གྱི་ནང་དཀའ་ཚེགས་མེད་པར་བསྒྱུར་རྒྱུའི་རེ་བ་གཏན་བྲལ་ཡིན་པ་ཀུན་གྱི་བློས་ཆོད་ཡིན། ལྷག་པར་ཆོལ་གསུམ་བོད་རིགས་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་ཆིག་བསྒྲིལ་དང་། ཆོས་ལུགས་ཆོས་བརྒྱུད་ཡོངས་རྫོགས་དམ་ཚིག་འོ་ཆུ་གཅིག་འདྲེས་འདི་ལྟ་བུ་བོད་ཀྱི་བྱུང་རབས་ནང་སྔར་མ་བྱུང་བ་ཞིག་ཡིན།
གཞན་ཡང་འཇིག་རྟེན་འདིའི་ཤར་ནུབ་ལྷོ་བྱང་གི་ཡུལ་གྲུ་ཀུན་ཏུ་བོད་བརྒྱུད་ནང་བསྟན་གྱིས་ཁྱབ་ཅིང་། བོད་ཀྱི་ཆོས་དང་ལེགས་བྱང་བོད་ཡུལ་དུ་རྩ་བརླགས་སོང་ཡང་། རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་ནང་རྒྱུན་གནས་ཐུབ་པའི་ལམ་ཆེན་གསར་པ་ཞིག་རྙེད་པ་དང་། དེ་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་བོད་དང་བོད་མིའི་ངོས་འཛིན་དང་། བོད་མི་རིགས་ཀྱི་ཆེ་མཐོང་། རྒྱ་ནག་མི་དམངས་སྤྱི་མཐུན་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ཀྱི་དབང་འཛིན་པ་ཚོས་ཁྲིམས་འགལ་གདུག་རྩུབ་མི་སྤྱོད་ལས་འདས་པ་ཇི་བྱས་དང་། ཁོང་ཚོའི་དབང་སྒྱུར་ཁྲིམས་མཐུན་མིན་པའི་གནས་བབ་རྒྱལ་སྤྱིའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཡོངས་ཀྱིས་བདེ་བླག་ཏུ་རྟོགས་ནུས་པ་བྱུང་བ་འདི་དག་ནི་བོད་མི་སྒེར་དང་། སྒྲིག་འཛུགས། གཞུང་སུས་ཀྱང་བསྒྲུབ་པར་དཀའ་བའི་གྲུབ་འབྲས་རླབས་ཆེན་ཞིག་འབད་མེད་རང་བྱུང་དུ་གྲུབ་པའང་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་མཚན་སྙན་དང་མཛད་འཕྲིན་གྱི་གཟི་བྱིན་ཉག་གཅིག་གི་དབང་ལས་བྱུང་བ་འཇིག་རྟེན་ཀུན་གསལ་དང་། ལྷག་པར་དུ་འགྲོ་བ་མིའི་བཟང་སྤྱོད་ཀྱི་རིན་ཐང་དང་། བྱམས་བརྩེའི་དགོས་དམིགས། འཇིག་རྟེན་སྤྱི་ཡོངས་ལ་འཁྲི་བའི་ལས་འགན། ཆོས་ལུགས་དང་མ་འདྲེས་པའི་ལེགས་སྤྱོད། ཆོས་ལུགས་ཁག་མཛའ་མཐུན་མཉམ་འབྲེལ་གནས་ཐབས་སོགས་འཇིག་རྟེན་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་ཕན་བདེ་སྒྲུབ་པའི་ཐབས་ལམ་གཞན་འགྲན་མ་མཆིས་པ་གསལ་སྟོན་མཛད་པ་འདིས་འཇིག་རྟེན་སྐྱེ་རྒུ་ཡོངས་ལ་འཕྲལ་ཕུགས་ཀྱི་ཁེ་ཕན་རླབས་ཆེན་བསྐྲུན་པའི་ཞོར་དུ་བོད་དང་བོད་མིའི་རྩ་དོན་ལའང་གོ་རྟོགས་དང་གདུང་སེམས་མཉམ་སྐྱེད་གནང་མཁན་གྲངས་ལས་འདས་པ་ཞིག་བྱུང་ཡོད།
དེ་བཞིན་ནང་ཆོས་དང་ཚན་རིག་དབར་གྱི་འབྲེལ་ལམ་དང་བགྲོ་གླེང་གི་སྒོ་ནས་ཕན་ཚུན་བློ་བསྐྱེད་སྤེལ་རེས་མཛད་པའི་རླབས་ཆེན་གྱི་མཛད་བཟང་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་དེང་རབས་གོང་མའི་གནས་སྐབས་འདིར་ཡང་ཚན་རིག་པས་ཆོས་ལུགས་ལས་བློ་བསྐྱེད་ལེན་པའི་དུས་ཚིགས་གསར་པ་ཞིག་བསྐྲུན་གནང་མཛད་པ་འདི་ནི་ད་ཕན་འཇིག་རྟེན་འདིའི་ཆོས་དང་སྲིད་ཀྱི་དབུ་ཁྲིད་སུས་ཀྱང་སྒྲུབ་མ་ནུས་པ་ཞིག་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གིས་བདེ་བླག་ཏུ་འགྲུབ་པར་མཛད་པ་དེ་ནི་འབྱུང་འགྱུར་འགྲོ་བ་མིའི་བྱུང་རབས་ཀྱི་ནང་གཟི་བརྗིད་ལྡན་པའི་ལེའུ་ཞིག་ཏུ་གྱུར་ཡོད། དེ་དང་དེ་འདྲའི་རླབས་ཆེན་གྱི་མཛད་འཕྲིན་སྐྲ་གྲངས་ཆུ་གཉེར་ལྟ་བུ་མཐའ་ལས་འདས་པ་བརྗོད་ཀྱིས་མི་ལངས་མོད། གོང་སྨོས་དེ་དག་ནི་དཔེ་མཚོན་ཙམ་ཡིན་པ་དང་། མདོ་དོན་མཛད་བཟང་དེ་དག་སྤྱིར་སེམས་ཅན་ཐམས་ཅད་ལ་འཕྲལ་ཕུགས་གཉིས་སྨན་ཡིན་པ་མ་ཟད། ཡང་སྒོས་བོད་དང་བོད་མི་ཡོངས་ལ་དངོས་ཤུགས་བརྒྱུད་གསུམ་ནས་ཕན་ཐོགས་རླབས་ཆེན་བྱུང་དང་ཡོང་བཞིན་པ་ཀུན་གྱིས་མཐུན་སྣང་དུ་གྲུབ་པ་དེ་ཡིན།
བྱས་པ་དྲིན་མེད་བྱེད་པའི་བག་བྲལ་གྱི།།
འཕྲལ་ཕུགས་གཉིས་མེད་རྣམ་རྟོག་འཕྱོན་མའི་གཟུགས།།
གཟུར་གནས་མཁས་པའི་བུ་ཡིས་མི་སྤྱོད་ཀྱང་།།
བདེན་དོན་དེབ་ཐེར་འགོད་ཕྱིར་གཏམ་འདི་བྲིས།།
I am very grateful to Jamyang Norbu and Karma Chomphel for standing up for what they believe in, for bringing about this kind of change in our society where we can debate honestly and speak our minds. I credit Jamyang Norbu for that. If some people equate this freedom loving, independent thinking, open mindedness to being against HHDL, then that is their problem. For too long this politics of “either you agree with HH’s stand/ policy or you are against him” has been going on. I’m sure there are many who are survivors of this tactic,who come out of it stronger and more determined never to give in to this lowly pressure tactics of mainstream groupthink. I have the highest of respect for HHDL but that doesn’t mean i will blindly absorb everything HH has to say.
To those people who say Jamyang Norbu and Karma Chomphel create division and disunity in our community -do you think that if the 2 of them kept quiet and followed like a “sheep” type that there would be more unity? I dont think so.
Muddle Talk by a Muddleway Meathead
Jay Gelek la’s letter strangely takes the student’s point of view, what the student said as what Karma Chophel la really said and what Karma Chophel la really said as soemthing that is irrelevant. http://www.rangzen.net/2013/06/07/translation-of-karma-chophel-intervention-at-parliament/
#158-165
We have read Thupten Lungril la’s comments on Jamyang Norbu la’s writings, mostly from the past.
There is nothing much there except some clever lines from philosophers like Sakya Pandita. IT is really about how loyal he is to His Holiness opposed those who sometimes don’t agree with His Holiness’s political views who he claims are against His Holiness. I guess off all the clever Tibetan sayings he forgot “shatsay khala Tamnyen mey. Peley kha dhi nyempo yoe.”
And comparing Tibetans who advocate Rangzen to Anarchist shows you the gentleman is clueless about the ways of the world beyond the exile Tibetan politics which is almost exclusively blind faith and fear of incurring negative karma for questioning His Holiness. That’s why younger Tibetans should question the soundness of mixing politics and religion. It is a great weakness when you cannot question people who who are in authority of making decisions for a whole nation. It is no way to foster genuine democracy when you beat down people with differing views with the “it’s disrespectful to His Holiness” club.
#158
Those who believe Tibet should be a province of China make no sense when they write in Tibetan and claim it’s their language.
Merely being able to read and write in Tibetan doesn’t make you a good Tibetan when your core is flakey with inability to make informed decisions. Merely reciting mantra like a parrot doesn’t make you a good Buddhist if your core is rotten with intolerance and hypocrisy.
ཀླད་རྙིང་ཁྲག་འཛིན་གཏུན་མུག་ཅན་གྱི་ཟླ་བ། དཀར་ནག་དབྱེ་འབྱེད་ནུས་བ་མི་ལྡན་སྙིང་རེ་རྗེ། བོད་པ་ཡིན་ཡང་སྐད་མི་ཤེས་མཁན། དེ་ནི་འཇིག་རྟེན་ཁམས་ཀྱི་ཁྱད་མཚར་ཆེས་ཤོས་ཡིན།
བོད་ལ་རང་བཙན་ཐོན་ནས་ཅི་ཞིག་བྱ། བོད་ལ་སླེབས་ཀྱང་གོ་བརྡ་འཕྲོད་དཀའ་བས། དེ་ལས་ཕྱི་རྒྱལ་ཡུལ་དུ་བསྡད་ན་ན་བཟང་།
ངོ་ཚ་མེད་པའི་ཟླ་བ། སྤྱང་ཀིས་ལུག་ལྤགས་ཀྱོན་འདྲ། ཕྲག་དོག་མེ་ལྕར་འབར་འདྲ། འདོད་ཆགས་བྱ་ལས་ཆེ་བས། མཐོང་རྒྱ་འབུ་ལས་ཆུང’།
ཉོམ་མོང་དུག་གི་གཟེར་བའི་ཟླ་བ། དུད་འགྲོ་ཡུལ་དུ་སྐྱེས་བས། སེམས་ཅན་བདེ་སྡུག་མི་ཤེས། སྙིང་རྗེ་ཟླ་བ་ལོ་ལོ།
ཉོམ་མོང་དུག་གི་གཟེར་བའི་ཟླ་བ། དུད་འགྲོ་ཡུལ་དུ་སྐྱེས་བའི་ཟླ་བ། སེམས་ཅན་བདེ་སྡུག་མི་ཤེས་ཟླ་བ།
སྙིང་རྗེ་བུ་ཕྲག་ལེ་ལོའི་ཟླ་བ།
བོད་ཡིག་ཏོག་ཙམ་མི་ཤེས་ཟླ་བ། དབྱིན་ཡིག་འཁྱ་མ་འཁྱོག་ཅིག་བྲིས་ནས། ང་ནི་འཇིག་རྟེན་འདི་ན་མཆོག
བསམ་ནས་བསྡད་ན་ལྐུག་བ།
Nor MWA nor Rangzen group…China will not mend its way until there is a full blown war (major war between countries) and PLA loses.Sounds good? Nope. Judging by current scenarios, though none can predict, we can’t make Communist negotiate with us.
#170-74 If you want to indulge in personal attacks, check your Tibetan spellings. Even grade two kids know how to spell “nyoen mong.” That’s just one word I am pointing out. The way you write your Tibetan would make Thomi Sambhota shed tears of blood.
Jackass.
#154 Clearpath> Yeah, he did look older than a ‘school kid’ and now we know he is already married and an ex varnasi student. How come he is allowed to be still called a student when he is a grown ass man?. So, he is an ex-varnasi leech who only know how to twist words and make up slander because I am pretty sure this asshole knew what he was doing when he misrepresented Karma Chomphel’s words. It still doesn’t mean that he didn’t have other middlepathers conspiring with him. Mix that with KC’s son not allowed to cover the event, it is pretty clear it is a set up. And these assholes have the gall to ask for UNITY while they go around slandering people and deliberately creating divisions.
I vote this fake student to be one of the first ones to go to China and use his snake tongue to good use there. Who knows he might be able to even outdo Samdhong rinpoche and Ngabo.
To all,
I wish to remind you that no abusive language will be tolerated and that the person posting it will be blocked. I thought the other day’s comments would have served a lesson, but obviously not…
Golok Ambum
Webmaster
བརྒྱ་ལེགས་སྟོང་ལེགས་ཁྱོད་ཀྱིས་གསུང་བ ལེགས།།
ཉོན་མོང་ནོར་ནས་ཉོམ་མོང་བྲས་བ་དེ།།
ཕྲན་གྱི་ཕ་སྐད་མི་ཤེས་མཚོན་རྟགས་རེད།།
ཕྲན་གྱི་གོང་དུ་བྲས་བའི ཚིག་དེ་དག།
ཁྱེད་དང་མཉམ་དུ རྩེད་མོ་བྱས་བའི་ཚུལ།
ཁོང་ཁྲོ་མ་ལངས་སྤུན་ཟླ་ཟླ་བ་ལགས།།
བརྒྱ་ལེགས་སྟོང་ལེགས་ཁྱོད་ཀྱིས་གསུང་བ་ལེགས།།
ཉོན་མོང་ནོར་ནས་ཉོམ་མོང་བྲས་བ་དེ།།
ཕྲན་གྱིས་ཕ་སྐད་མི་ཤེས་མཚོན་རྟགས་རེད།།
ཕྲན་གྱིས་གོང་དུ་བྲས་བའི་ཚིག་དེ་དག།
ཁྱེད་དང་མཉམ་དུ་རྩེད་མོ་བྱས་བའི་ཚུལ།
ཁོང་ཁྲོ་མ་ལངས་སྤུན་ཟླ་ཟླ་བ་ལགས།།
Jews never applaud Hitler and Nazism why our leader are applauding Mao and Socialism instead of condemning.
That was not the case always. When we were strong, powerful and independent & quite the fighter-cocks ( ooops! Pardon me) – warrior like we didn’t have to follow the ‘appeasement policy or theory’ , Now that we have no political status this is the game we have to play. Our time will come.
KARZE,
You should feel grateful to Mao; otherwise, you would have never arrived in the west and enjoying the freedom of speech and democracy in the west! Without Mao, you may have lived in the desert somewheree near Tibet- Nepal border where nothing grows. Or you may have lived in the mountains wearing a thick sheep skin rope to look after some sheep or goat. Or you may have become a monk who would neve care who the hitler or Jews are! It was Mao who has proffered you this great opportunity to learn some English! Probably, driving a fancy car with a Marlboro cigarrat in your mouth, drinking some Corona beer!
Hi Nomad: You are blind follower who is not able to use his or her KHOPRI. Earlier you attacked others for not writing in Tibetan.
I want to live in my country without fear or Chinese. I love my Chang not Corona or Budweiser.
NOmad,
Now you are getting too smart for your own good. You are a confused Tibetan from Tibet. Holding onto religious dogma mixed with CCP propaganda. The worst combination that I have seen. . Make me want to throw up. So many people have suffered, died, been tortured and so much damage done to the land and you make that statement so casually. You disgust me.
Comrade KARZE,
If you want to live in Tibet first you need to learn Tibetan and Chinese. Learning Tibetan is necessary because Tibetans inside Tibet cannot speak English! Chinese is mandatory as you know, so if you are interested I will provide you both with free of charge since you are my fellow countryman! But remember I like drinking corona beer which you should provide me! I think you should not have problem with that!
To all my comrades,
I would like to apologize to Dawa la for posting some filthy language in Tibetan as I was wondering how many of you have actually had good commend in Tibetan language thus I had goaded all you into actions; however, only Dawa la has passed the entrance examinations for Tibet with the highest grade of A+! Congratulations for Dawa la! The rest have failed! It was so sad!
Hi Nomad: I have enough skills to communicate both in written and spoken Tibetan. I am sure that this blog is in English if you are not aware of it.
Try not to boast that you are only star in the sky. Don’t try to impose Chinese language on me either. I speak fluent Tibetan for I don’t need to use English or Hindi or Chinese word or two while to communicating in Tibetan.
That is just distraction. Don’t fall into that trap. They can’t account for why His Holiness was not angry at all the Middlepathers who said the very same thing and they hold even more prominent positions than a simple parliamentarian like Karma Chomphel. Why wasn’t His Holiness not angry with his Prime Minister who famously coined the word “U-RANG” implying he is for both Umalam and Rangzen? If His Holiness was mad at Karma Chomphel, then he should be spanking Lobsang Sangay across his lap in Gankyi public arena, followed closely by Penpa Tsering and Lobsang Nyandeak.
@189, you asked why? Did those guys like LS or PT brought HH in the middle while proving themselve on U-rang or rangzen in their heart stuff. If they did, lets spank them first and then KC.
The attack on RFA is sad to say the least.
What is problem in adopting both paths? Both paths are not exclusive to one another and I think both will act rather as a complementary to one another. Chithue and bootlicker of LS and SR should not exaggerate the situational threat on their MWA approach by some eminent rangzen people among innocent shichak people and monks. Accept rangzen as your birth right and respect people who fight for it, for you and your beloved lama,HHDL.
The state has to be committed to one path. Cannot be duplicitous.
For example it’s one thing to assume several ids to comment on the same point of view with the same stance but another thing to assume multiple ids to comment on completely opposing views.
HH being provoked into the chitue Karma Chopel ‘what he said and did not say” makes this clear; just my two bits.
The point is we are in exile and somehow or anyhow we must be in our Tibet and rule our own land. This is our goal and end for that we must be very flexible in adopting the methods.
When the destination is far and difficult we must use any methods and paths available in our capacity and must black list some methods.
I see what you mean – there must come a time to make way for a second political party (legally) with another differing opposing approach. But the leaders of the state/cta/govt cannot be flaky about their own chosen path – to all that I agree.
After seeing witch hunting on rangzenwallas in chithue, I can fairly presume that, we rangzen supporters will soon be outcasted from community. The brief history in exile always have shown us that there is always one or two minorities who is disturbing HHDL and must be black listed from community. What’s wrong in having different views? Why should we agrre his words as infallible? Hasn’t our constitution guaranteed freedom of speech and freedom to differ to policy of state?
If they cant really bear this much criticism from rangzen then stop democracy chapter of Cta and declare it as some phodrang or labrang.
If CTA has a police force, all rangzenwalas, especially JN, were very well met the fate of Gendun Chophel.
When you don’t have a strong principle, power will corrupt you.
Be careful, my Tibetans. His Holiness is preety much living like he was living in Tibet. His ministers misinforms or not inform him the real situations.
Yours AGU
#190. Daveno. Are you making His Holiness into some sort of a dumbass? Of course whenever, especially someone at the highest office, the face of Tibetan govt-in-exile, makes statements like that, it of course makes it a mockery of his middlway policy. And Karma Chomphel didn’t say His Holiness was lying, he just stated what every Tibetan would want, if there is a choice.
Clearly there is a disconnect there and a very important one. You must wrap that around your head and let it sink in instead of demonizing individuals for speaking the truth.
@198, No. I am not making HH a dumbass, i am the dumpass.Just like you and me, HH might have some concern when LS and other elected rep utter Urang and stuff.But what can HH do,HH is now ordinary tibetan when it comes to political decision making .Everything should come from people representative. if that is not the case, fight for it.
“mockery of his middleway policy”..come on man we all know MWP is HH suggested policy or he supports mwp. Its through referendum that it was adopted officially,so technically it is people’s policy.You may argue that people will follow whatever HH position is…could be true, but we have people who follow rangzen and those who just want to be part of china without any stringattached like those shugden follower (not all of them) visiting hugging kissing CCP.
KC never said HH was lying directly, which is true! But he brought in HH and others while narrating on why he chose MWP for 20 some years while haivng rangzen in his heart.just the way everyone including HH would want Rangzen.
Daveno:
Your father-in-law, Agu Pema of Salt Lake City wants you to shut up your mouth.
Your hidden message is: If anything is working, it is because of Lobsang Sangay Moron and if something is not working than it is His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Nice man !
@199 Daveno, you make a valid point. However, I don’t agree. Specially the part where you said HH is now an ordinary Tibetan. The truth is, he is anything but ordinary to Tibetans. How can God be ordinary? And to say that he does not have political influence anymore is complete opposite of the truth. If anything, his political influence have grown even stronger since the “devolution” of power. Look at what has happened in TYC. Look at how emotionally charged the religious right has become since his recent statements. Of course he has every right to express his opinion as a citizen, but I think he also needs to figure out a way to do it without jeopardizing his biggest legacy to the Tibetan people, i.e. Democracy.
Personally, as an ordinary Tibetan, I would rather prefer HHDL hold all the political powers than pretend like he does not have them any more. I would like to be excused from participating in this collective drama as I am not very good at acting.
KP, From a political perspective, HH is an ordinary tibetan to ME.I dont care nor do i want to impose my perspective onto others.Its their decision and they have every right to choose whatever they feel is right for them.
Some may want to agree with HH or with JN or Lhasang or other activist or Indian freedom fighters or chinese activist or western or jews.
If anyone is pretending, it was KC who admitted having rangzen in heart and those tyc folks with MW in heart.
It is interesting you emphasize on the word “ME”. But it seems you don’t think KC is entitled to do the same because you accuse him of pretending. As far as I can tell, KC has always stood up for Rangzen. His political stance is well known in the Parliament. He clearly stated that he supported MWA before out of reverence for HHDL and his personal belief that deep down every Tibetan desires Independence. He formally withdrew his support for MWA because it is easier to do so for him now because DL is no longer the Political head of our government.
At the very minimum he is entitled to his own interpretation of the word “Rangwang” in those verses composed by DL. And I think his interpretation is completely legitimate because when HHDL composed those verses the principal goal of CTA and the DL was Rangzen. And the words Rangwang and Rangzen were often used together and interchangeably to mean the same thing. It is not KC’s fault to interpret the way he did. Rather it is composer’s failure to clarify to the public what the word “Rangwang” actually means. Now I hope the people know.
I wonder if KC still recites those verses with the same devotion as he used to do. It will be a sad outcome if he doesn’t, I think.
I said, if anyone was PRETENTING ( for your perception of HH holding political power), it was KC.
Having Rangzen all the time in his heart, but pretended to support MW out of his devotion for HH.Thereby mixing religious elements with politics which i believe is against what many here stands for, calling for separation of politics from religion.
KC is entitled to anything he wants but since he is a public figure as a rep in TParliament, his action will be subjected to scrutiny.
@200 socrates..has he said (whoever he is)..”kha kharu dhu na kha-chu ngung!”.
#204
To imply that karma Chophel who is a small time exile Chithue has more responsibility with things he says than His Holiness who is a global figure is downright dishonest.
As Russell Peters would say, “come on, be a man.” Be a man. Own up to your BS.
@206,
I consider chitue more powerful currently, as they are peoples representative.If you want to belittle our chitue by calling them ‘small time” its upto you.
BTW, what did HH said that you are comparing between the HH and KC?
Who is HH Dalai Lama actually ? Was he really angry ?
Anyhow, don’t worry at all because:
1) If you believe he is also a human being, what is so surprise to be angry for sometimes since it is very much a part of human emotion.
2) If you believe he is Enlightened living Buddha, then, don’t worry because Buddhas will never angry although you gave a shit on their head. So, of course, few critical words are nothing for them .
Who is HH the Dalai Lama actually ? Was he really angry ?
Anyhow, don’t worry at all because:
1) If you believe he is also a human being, what is so surprise to be angry for sometimes since it is very much a part of human emotion.
2) If you believe he is Enlightened living Buddha, then, don’t worry because Buddhas will never angry although you gave a shit on their head. So, of course, few critical words are nothing for them .
A person who claims that the Dalai Lama is just your regular joe, average citizen, and that any chitue in dharsa is more powerful than the Dalai Lama is either deeply delusional or a pathological liar.
It’s old news now, but once, I found it quite disturbing, having come to the realization, just how eerily similar Dalai Lama apologists are to Chinese propagandists. Both have no qualms about lying. In fact, they lie so casually, with impunity. They seem to feel no shame or guilt, instead, lie with perverse sense of joy, as if they have done good works, which one day, heaven will be the reward. HA!
Hey Owl, right on!
You look like you are seeing in the darkness!
Anyog.
It is very saddening to see some people simply using very cheap language on hhdl and I think this is not good for all and for the one who use it. Excepting a few of us, for rest of Tibetans and some Buddhists DL is nothing less than living Buddha. As law abiding citizens we are bound to respect the faith and beliefs of our fellow brothers. Finding errors and false in the belief system is not your and my job because the very foundation of all religions is faith (blindfaith you may call) that we don’t have. We all can have different approach as our right no matter the result of referendum which many and i believe must change in sometime. For the time being we will do our small work and keep patience which is very important.
A person who cannot see during the daylight and missed to witness the power of people and its true representative overthrowing auto..rule should be excused as ignorant.
No HONEST judgement should be expected from a person who follows the like of those who lied not only to his constituent but to himself.
I forgot to touch on the HEAVEN part, here it goes….NANNA MAGHA NEY..MAWAN JAATHI NA KAY-YA!
J. Nehru strongly advised His Holiness in 1959 not to stand on independence as his goal.
http://claudearpi.blogspot.fr/2013/06/nehru-meets-dalai-lama-remarkable.html
Owl hit it on the nail.
“It’s old news now, but once, I found it quite disturbing, having come to the realization, just how eerily similar Dalai Lama apologists are to Chinese propagandists. Both have no qualms about lying. In fact, they lie so casually, with impunity. They seem to feel no shame or guilt, instead, lie with perverse sense of joy, as if they have done good works, which one day, heaven will be the reward. HA!”
I have noticed that too on a regular basis. They even seem to be take great pleasure in perpetuating this outright lie and feel as if that is a great deed accomplished. That is a mark of a fanatic, not a reasonable man. When somebody does that, that means they are hiding under the shade of the great Banyan tree that Jamyang said long time ago, under which nothing grows. He wasn’t saying His Holiness was hampering growth, rather that the system and the blind faith factors in making growth impossible.
I disagree with Jamyang Norbu at all. It is very clear that you are waiting for something to take advantage from H,H,but you are not genuine support independence for Tibet and exile government. so iam not taking serious your thought and your artic,but I read your artics and I put them trash can.
@ 217
you poor thing.
Prime Minister Nehru once told His Holiness The Dalia Lama.
P.M. [:] There is a definite contradiction between this talk of a fight and this fear of killing. Ultimately if Tibet’s independence is to be achieved, it will be due to its own people’s courage and ability to stand up to suffering, whatever it may be, and not due to any help anybody el se in the whole wide world can give.
FrontNCenter
Nothing will grow for Tibet under the Bunyan Tree. All you have is shade and darkness. One will never ever have direct light there. If you want to embrass the light and space you have top walk out.
There is no banyan tree these days…may be it appeared in the meditative state of those who believe there is one. Is it being inthe meditative state or oxycodone..only jn could tell/
Pema trinley, you have as much rights to disagree with JN as he can do with DL. this is our basic rights. If he is not a true supporter of Rangzen then who else is there in exile. Fickle minded politicians like SR and LS can compromise their path and stand but not JN. He has stood firm on his stand. You may call him stubborn but not power monger and corrupt like SR and LS.
You told that you don’t take his articles seriously but you admit that you read first then throw it in trash box. I find it funny that why you have to read it to throw in trash. Can’t you just throw without reading?
After All, Without JN they will be no such great debate. How about a big round of applause for JN???
Even haters get equal opportunity to spill out all the angers in JN’s own page. such opportunities are hard to find these days. So Thank JN everybody.
Yours Agu.
Waiting anxiously for the next interesting topic!
I just signed the below petition to show my support of and stand in solidarity with Karma Choephel la’s decision to withdraw support for Middle Way Policy. I feel so good!
Chitue Karma Choephel, we stand behind you!
http://www.tibetnc.org/get-involved/advocacy/karma-choephel/
TCL
Whether one agrees with Jamyang la or not, it is undeniable what flows from his pen sets this very public debate on an issue that concerns the future of coming generations of TIbetans, which is likely study HIs HoIiness with their feets firmly planted on earth. If nothing comes out of his middle way policy, he will closely studied for his handling, mis handling of TIbetan democracy.
གང་ལྟར་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུའི་ལྟ་ཚུལ་དང་མཐུན་མིན་ཇི་ལྟར་ཡང་དྲང་ཐིག་ཞིག་གི་ལམ་ནས་ལྟ་ཚུལ་གསུངས་པ་ལ་སྙིང་ནས་རྗེས་སུ་ཡིད་རང་ཡོད། ༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་ལ་དད་པ་ཡོད་མེད་དང་ཡིད་ཆེས་ཡོད་མེད། ཁོང་གི་ལམ་བསྟོན་གནང་བའི་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་དུ་བསྐྱོད་མིན་ནི་མི་བུ་སོ་སོའི་རང་དབང་རེད་ལ། ཐོབ་ཐང་ཡང་རེད། གཙོ་བོ་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཆེད་དུ་རང་གི་ལྷག་བསམ་རྣམ་དག་གི་བྱ་བ་ཞིག་བསྒྲུབ་དགོས་པ་དེ་ཡིན།
འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ལ་ཞུ་འདོད་པ་ནི་ང་ཚོའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་དུ་དྲང་ཐིག་གི་ལམ་དུ་བསྐྱོད་པ་དང་། དྲ་པོའི་གཏམ་རྒྱུད་ཤར་བསྐྱོད་བྱས་ན་དེ་ནི་ནག་ཉེས་ཅན་གྱི་མི་ཞིག་བཟོ་འགྲོ་བ་ནི་ང་ཚོས་འདས་པའི་ལོ་རྒྱུས་ལས་ཤེས་ཐུབ། དེར་བརྟེན་ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་གཡས་གཡོན་དུ་གསལ་པོ་བལྟས་ནས་བོད་པའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་དུ་ཁྱེད་ལ་མི་དགའ་བའི་སྐྱེ་བོ་འགའ་ཞིག་གིས་ནག་ཉེས་ཅན་གྱི་མི་ཞིག་ཏུ་བསྒྲུབ་ཐབས་བྱེད་བཞིན་པ་འདི་ལ་ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་ངེས་པར་དུ་བསམ་བློ་གཏོང་དགོས་པ་ཞིག་རེད།
ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་གིས་ལམ་བསྟོན་གནང་བའི་ལམ་དབུ་མ་དང་དེ་མིན་གནད་དོན་འགའ་ཞིག་ལ་མོས་མཐུན་ཡོད་མེད་ནི་ཁྱེད་ཀྱི་འདོད་པ་དང་ཐབ་ཐོང་རེད། ཡིན་ཡང་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཀྱི་དཔྲལ་བའི་མིག་དང་ཁོག་པའི་སྙིང་ལྟ་བུ་༸གོང་ས་སྐྱབས་མགོན་ཆེན་པོ་མཆོག་ལ་ཁ་གཏད་ལོངས་པ་ལྟ་བུ་བརྩམ་ཡིག་སྤེལ་ན་དེ་ནི་ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་བོད་མི་རིགས་ལ་གུས་ཞབས་དང་བརྩི་བསྐུར་མེད་པ་ཞིག་ཏུ་འགྱུར་བ་དང་། ལྟ་ཚུལ་མ་མཐུན་ན་ཡང་༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་ལ་ངེས་པར་དུ་གུས་ཞབས་དང་བརྩི་བསྐུར་ཞུ་དགོས་པ་ནི་ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་གསལ་པོ་མཁྱེན་ངེས་རེད། དེ་ནི་བསམ་ཚུལ་ཙམ་དང་རེ་བསྐུལ་ཙམ་ཡིན་ལགས།
I keep thinking that His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s band of advisors will just turn him into Ozymandias of poet Percy Beshee Shelly:
Ozymandias
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!’
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away”.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama worked so hard to raise us to grow up exactly like the type of man Karma Chophel is, one who can speak his mind. Now His Holiness is trying to tame our youths into giving up the fight.
In the end, it all depends on how modern educated youths think how we can survive as a nation. To me there is no giving up. To me there is no giving up. I think by not giving up, we will honor His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
If I could have picked my own Father’s Day gift, it would have been a barf bag for dealing with the MWA proponents. Zero gravity astronaut training couldn’t possibly be any more vomit-inducing than listening to overwrought MWA politicians lament another “hurt feelings” towards HH and heap sappy praise on HH for having given our people “democracy”. I can appreciate that HH is upset, but treating Kundun like a character in a Greek tragedy doesn’t resonate much beyond the awards and doctorates.
Did anyone listen to Samdhong Rimpoche’s latest bullshit address to the Tibetan youth congress? He mentioned the ‘hurt’ again and again and made it seem like those who want to pursue Rangzen are causing some sort of reckless venture in exile politics. I am sure people are aware that he was the architect behind this whole episode of the 8 chapters revolting within TYC. If forming a political party to pursue rangzen is seen as some sort of divisive game, then the almighty Ayathollah doesn’t understand the concept of democracy. I think he is mistaking democracy for theorocracy. If we only have the democacy to agree with Middleway, then what is the point of having democracy? We should request His Holiness to take back this name only democracy and retain his previous status as both political and religious leadership. Kundun is a “A private citizen” is a very bad joke when whatever he says basically goes. If there is no democracy, just say it so and lets forget everything. There is no reason to pretend we have somethng we don’t want and moreover will not implement in Tibet. There is no reason to show the world some sort of magical trick from Shangrila. Just be honest. As a buddhist, can I at least have that from my leaders?
བོད་པ་ (unity we stand, divide we fall):
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it was Buddha himself who said that Buddhism would decline once decension and disharmony became rampant from within. It would not fall due to destructive forces from without, but from within. I think we all owe it to the people suffering in Tibet right now to behave in a harmonious and curteous way towards each other, whatever our dissenting views may be. It is a very difficult and tragic situation. I don’t think anyone can be blamed at all. No one can point a finger at anyone else, call names, or wrangle. I think we owe it to each other, really, to respect each other. His Holiness is beyond reproach. He is HOLY, after all. Let us not forget. He has been a great leader, both politically and religiously, and a champion of the Tibetan people. He’s only done all that he could, given the circumstances. We would all like to change history, I’m sure. …. His Holiness deserves every accolade, praise, up to the deepest devotion. I just don’t understand how Tibetans can be so divided, or how any Tibetan could be against His Holiness. I really hope that this will change in the future. But I am not Tibetan, so it’s not up to me to decide….. Please, give up your anger, and realize that it only comes from pain, and our human condition, which has as its very nature suffering. Let us all love each other, and not devolve into bickering. There is no need for that. Just listen to all of the great Holy Rinpoches you Tibetans have as your examples. It’s really extraordinary to me, and I am in awe of your culture. …. We live in the free world, and can express our opinions. There is no harm in that. No one is going to hurt us for expressing our views from where we are sitting right now. Tibetans within Tibetan do not have that luxury. I think we owe it to those who do not have our freedom to act respectfully towards each other!…. His Holiness seems to be a great pragmatist to me. But then, I am not well versed in Sino-Tibetan matters. It is simply a very difficult, and complex situation. I think all anyone can hope for right now is that the human rights situation will improve very soon. I think that’s the issue that we should all be focusing on right now, since so many are suffering, and sacrificing their lives as we sit here idly expressing our views.
རིང་ནས་སྙིང་དུ་བརྣག་པའི་འདོད་པའི་དོན།།
ཡོངས་རྫོགས་བོད་ལྗོང་རང་དབང་གཙང་མའི་དཔལ།།
ལྷུན་བགྲུབ་ཆོས་སྲིད་ཟུང་འབྲེལ་དགའ་སྟོན་ལ།།
སྦྱོད་པའི་སྐལ་བཟང་མྱུར་བ་ཉིད་དུ་སྩོལ།།
Lila,
I’m not well versed in all these things but i think what Buddha meant to convey was more in lines of there coming about a time of degradation and degeneration due to wrong views and excesses of those people who are the guardians of the Buddha Dharma.( Here i am talking in general and not any one individual. Please mind it). Thereby confusion reigning and whole host of downfall. I dont think one or two youngsters who are going through the growing pains and hurt will have the power, the energy and strength for the downfall of the Buddha Dharma. It would take much more than that. I really think thats what Buddha meant. but I’m not 100% sure.
But, i wholeheartedly agree with you HHDL is doing his best and continue to do the best he can. It is difficult for all of us – some people are more emotional while some people are more practical.
60 years has gone and still we haven’t figure out to united with one path for freedom. The melting pot of digital age is taking us to another era. It’s time to open our eyes and be a part of greater world community. The idea of having a land and calling it country will fade away soon from this world. Identity and language is more important then having a piece of land.
Give Tibetan’s in Tibet a chance to breath and make their own choice. Lot of artist are emerging from Tibet and making their mark. Where is the Kunga and Yadong of Exile? haha…JK
Tsering Dorjee
“If there is no democracy, just say it so and lets forget everything. There is no reason to pretend we have something we don’t want and moreover will not implement in Tibet. There is no reason to show the world some sort of magical trick from Shangrila. Just be honest.”
Unfortunately, there are reasons for CTA and Gaden Phodang to pretend, for instance, in order to gain financial, moral and political support from liberal democratic nations of the world. Hyping both Democracy and Marxism, as many Indian Tibetans love using the phrase, is a, Win, Win Situation!
In politics, speaking clearly and honestly is considered a faux pas which shrew politicians know not to commit. Makes no difference if one is a Buddhist politician or an atheist politician, perjury is a clever tool for efficacious governance. So lying is a means to an end, in the sense of ends justifying the means, ala, philosophy of consequentialism, ethics be damned.
Lying is very much like smiling, a smile cost nothing, but the pay off could be huge.
Obviously I am not condoning lying, I don’t like it anymore than you do, but that’s how the world flows.
Porto Norbu Tsering a corrupt politician from Parkdale Toronto, who for ten years rule Canada Tibet committee in Ontario like a dictator, who lied and bullied people about the community hall, there is the situation of unaccounted money missing and other nasty business. The community hall is still in red and can barely pay the monthly fees and also still lot of construction not completed writes on phayul, Disagreeing with Mr. Jamyang Norbu La on Some Points” Some points??
This old fox wants to share the same bed with Samdhong Rempoche said “Mr. Jamyang Norbu La’s contention that both former Kalon Tripa Pro.Samdhang Rinpoche and Sikyong Dr. Lobsang Sangay La meddled with the working of RFA Tibetan section AT THE BEHEST OF CHINA’s LEADERS is very difficult to accept.”
I don’t think Jamyang Norbula said such a thing so what is this guy’s game he is playing?
Norbu Tsering was hoping for the appointment of Tokyo Representative. Current Japan Rep is a great guy/ He doesn’t listen to Gyari Pema Gyalpo. Now, Gyari Dolma is pushing for Norbu Tsering to be the Rep and so Pema Gyalpo can rule Japan. Norbu Tsering Wife is Gyari’s cousin.
Atleast This is what the rumor is in Dhasa and i don’t have time to cross check.
Yours AGU.
Is this the same Norbu Tsering who is the Chitue from North America? If yes, then why is it not mentioned?
Anyway, it is the same rehashed alarmist theories mixed in with international hearsay without even attempting to fully comprehend why Rangzen supporters follow the path they follow. Also, he has no criticism about the farce of a democracy we practise in Exile with One Party system with Samdhong Rimpoche as Ayatollah of Iran ruling behind the scene? Moreover, he has no criticsim of the recent disclosure of the tactics by Prime minister who said we are willing to do away with Democracy and even the Autonomy later on???!!! Does these people even know what Middleway they are supporting?
All the above comment are for Mr. Norbu Tsering but I think they are not reading carefully article and even the author instruction given in last page of the article. Mr. Norbu tsering is not a chitu and also not a politician. He is one and only our ladakh TCV Former principal. you all must give your opinion for the article rather then just barking for author.
no they have no idea what they are talking about. CTA is full of big belly highly Indianized politicians who learn everything from New Delhi.
Really come on ..why can’t i post anything?
Campaigners deplore Tibet’s exclusion from G8 joint communiqué.
DHARAMSHALA, June 18: Tibet advocacy groups have expressed “deep disappointment” at the failure of G8 leaders to make any mention on the situation in Tibet in a joint communiqué at the end of their two day annual summit.
In a statement today, Tibet campaigners deplored the exclusion of any commitment by the G8 leaders on “working multilaterally to tackle China’s failed policies” in Tibet.
The thickheadedness of the unity argument cannot be overstated. It embodied everything that’s wrong with our society, from the blatant inconsistency in their approach of the the ill-conceived obsession with MWA.
Only in our community- and maybe on the pro wrestling circuit or in a corrupt Third World police state – can a guy get absolutely bushwhacked for defending his or her country.
Such passionate writeup by Denpa Utsug, alas, in the words of Thomas Huxley, I hate to slay a beautiful hypothesis by ugly facts. While I have no love for Samdhong Rinpoche, I am perforced, by an inner compulsion to defend the man. Human memory, limited as it is, and on top of that, our modularized brains are also straddled with conformation, as well as a host of other biases, therefore, we forget, or choose to gloss over our thoughts which may give us pause.
Yes, SR did say, even in a TV documentary, while as the Kalon Tripa, that he took political responsibility, in the main, due to his root guru, the Dalai Lama. Also, that, being a monk, he does not think about the future of Tibet. I respect his bluntness, and he has the right to express himself, even if some of us don’t care for such candor.
So your number 1 question, why he stood for Kalon Tripa in the first place? The obvious answer, which you have already noted in your very first paragraph~~”because his root guru” the Dalai Lama, ask him to.
In fact, wasn’t that also the main reason why most Tibetans instantly voted for SR in the first place? Because he was the God King’s Chosen One?. Did we conveniently forget this?
Number 2, Number 3, number whatever you like, surely must have something to do with the Root Guru defense, as already confessed by Samdhong Rinpoche.
Again, accusing Samdhong Rinpoche as being the principle instigator of middlewaylicizing TYC is dubious to say the least. SR can certainly be blamed for aiding and abiding, but surely, the real provocateur, the spark-plug who ignited few chapters of TYC to go rogue, was, once again, the Dalai Lama. Have we already conveniently forgot his Salugara sermon too?
I’ll cut Denpa some slack, even Jamyang Norbu has a habit, at times, of scapegoating the artisans, the stone masons, the carpenters~~any termite cept the Architect.
I suppose, deep down, most Tibetans, not just SR see the Dalai Lama as their own root guru as well, such biases spill onto the Tibetan political landscape.
Maybe that is why our politics is so convoluted, inseparable from religion just like coiled snakes making love, because of DL. Even in here, those who try to honestly figure out what is what, may subconsciously still feel, there are none who is more effectual in leading feeble spirits to Narvana, if not autonomous within China.
The Chinese speaking player at the time in exile – a big shot – only HE knows what actually transpired btwn him and the Chinese over the MW dialogues. He is the main architect.
One (late) Kalon who accompanied him on one of these trips finally saw through the farce or to put it leniently the hopelessness – from both sides; it ‘seems’. That trip changed his mind…..
“”The Tibetan youth Congress is the only and sole present foundation and future seed of the entire Tibetan culture, religion race and its future. Therefore, a man or an idea that harms and destroys this indispensable institution is no more harmful and dangerous enemy then the Red China itself.””
Are you out of your mind or behind -with this statement. or you must be located in shangahi university.
Why G8 leaders talk for Tibet? Still dwelling in self-fulfilling fantasies?
NG
Here I would like to clarify that the man who wrote an article on phayul is not the corrupted chitue norbu tsering. He is a honest and respected teacher of TCV school. As we all aware that his article came in respected way,even though he support u-may lam. That’s ok, we should accept different opinion that’s the beauty of democracy.
Please fact check who is Samdhong Rinpoche’s root guru. Don’t assume, my friend.
Regarding who is behind the 8 chapters of TYC asking to change the charter, please do some research before exonerating SR. This is not a conspiracy theory. SR even scolded TYC.
Since SR came into Tibetan politics, it has been one divisive action after another. His latest move is to divide TYC.
@DENPA-UTSYG:Please talk for yourself and your exile brethrens. Don’t bring in Tibetans into the equation in order to score some points by speculating that Tibetans inside must feel like I Denpa-Utsug feel or JN guru feel. Reality is complicated……don’t simplify too much if you don’t know the other side, better stick to your own ignorant propaganda…
NG
@254
You keep saying reality is complicated and you keep talking about intrigues and nuances etc. But you cant spell out what that is. If everybody were to take into consideration your type of perceived “reality” then i’m sure there wont be much happening anywhere in this world.We Tibetans take this “reality” too seriously that anybody can trample on us and we’ll still say thats our reality.But i think reality keeps changing all the time.
@255
The reality I saw in Tibet and lived there is totally different from reality imagined by exiles. I don’t form an argument by reading a news clips or a video click or a propagandist talk in exile schools and communities. I based my argument on what I know…..hope this clarifies your confused “realities”. I am not here to quench my intellectual curiosity through pseudo intellectual exercises.
NG
NG
From what I know and heard from people coming from Tibet. Most deep down don’t like Chinese- but they have to stay clever and try to go on with their lives. And that they have to, of course. CCP can have their superficial compliance but they can rest assured that they will never ever win the hearts and souls of Tibetan people.
If you NG have someother revelations then let it out.
@256
“The reality I saw in Tibet and lived there is totally different from reality imagined by exiles.”
Hey NG,how do you imagine how we in exile imagine the reality inside Tibet?
In addition to the fact that I haven’t met even a single Tibetan coming from Tibet who said life is great under Chinese rule, the self-immolation acts scream out what reality really is inside Tibet.
You know, you are not obligated to post a comment if you don’t have a point to make.
oops sorry! I just remembered John Kerry’s saying “freedom (of speech) includes right to be stupid”.
@Kalsang: Tibetans in exile being brainwashed through dramas about tortures and killings. Well, it is part of the whole, not the entire life process on the plateau. Otherwise, no Tibetans left on the plateau to be a guardian to the land that ruddy faced ancestors owned. Exiles are brainwashed about Tibet as a fixed and unchanging history since time immemorial. It is same as communist propaganda that Tibet has been inalienable part of Chinese state.
There are so much happening, both positive and negative. It cannot be a black and white. It is just same as the history of Tibet. Rise and fall….
Exiles think all people are persecuted, it is right and wrong. Those who politically active, get in trouble, rest just go on as normal life like in US.
Exiles think China destroys culture and language, the fact is Tibetan culture and language in flourishing in Tibet despite restriction, while exiles are slowly assimilated in the culture of their adopted countries.
Tibetan women are sterilized, it is part of PRC policy nation-wide, in fact Tibetan families can have at least 3 children, that is too pure Tibetan because they choose to have, while exiles are fucked up with different races in the name of sexual freedom and personal choice.
Exiles argue building of hydroelectric by China is exploiting and accussing China, the fact of matter is, it is a good thing for electricity in Tibetans. Tibetans inside Tibet dont live in dark or depend on candles. If Chinese behavior is bad, it should be the downstream countris should complain, not exile Tibetans. They should at the least appreciate what China is building since they are technically unable to carry out such construction.
There are many examples……..the fact of matter is, dont think you know best only because you read on the news clips or propaganda papers….
The best way to connect to reality is….visit Tibet!
NG
any intelligent voice out there from the Middleway apologists on this topic?
To all the MWA people here is one question.
If his holiness changes his mind and supports indepence, would you still advocate MWA? Or switch to rangzen?
@Freemind: playing the “if” game does not solve real problems. As the reality and fact goes, DL will not change his position because what DL has vis vis China is not hard power, but his soft power. If he sacrifices his soft power, then there is nothing arsenal left. No seasoned and skillful leader and diplomat will destroys one’s strength. It is like a chess game. Anyway, if anyone with a different view from middle way or rangzen, translate words into actions. It is not a problem to change opinions giving the new circumstances. The question is, whether rangzen will go gurther than holding once a year rangzen conference, March 10th demo, candle vigil, and so forth? Will they lead by example or will they be armchair visionaries and critics…….it all depends on action.
NG
Or tell us on what ground DL will change Middle Way to rangzen? Any insightful reasons or usual rangzen wallas half baked rhetorics?
NG
Without political freedom there won’t be religious, cultural or linguistic freedom.
I am sure that Communist Chinese Govt and it’s dogs outside in exile are very happy, I can see some in above comments.. In Tibetan society, writer Is very few but that few writers write something which trample the society like Communist Chinese Tramples the Tibetan monasteries, culture and environment.. I wish and pray that these writer’s pen and ink runs for good and fulfil the hopes and dreams of those who lit themselves on fire for the betterment of humanity, shout for protection of culture, language n environment and return of His Holiness. I feel very sad when I went through above comments, those commentators if Tibetans has lost our rich culture, I e politeness, respects and Dharma. With unity, we stand, by division, we will collapse…..
HHDL, himself, has given a very good reason not so long ago if you pay attention to his speeches. Despite his best efforts, MW policy has failed!
@Ng I have been inside Tibet too! I know what’s happening there too!
@Denpa: It is good you have been there Tibet. You should make more trips not to a single particular areas, but criss-cross the plateau. Try to understand local people without interpreting through our re-conceived notion of politics.
NG
What makes u think I havebnot criss crossed?
I would love to see a clear logic how can you push your Denpa Utsug about 95% of Chinese population of Siling in face of your agu JN’s logic…..if you cannot articulate on this particular point, it either shows you just went there as a typical western tourist, albeit guided by official from local United Front Department or you haven’t learnt anything of value that adds to your intellectual argument from your safe haven. The worst case, you did not go and you are just a self deluded liar who can lie through mouth and nose at the same time in order to make your point, no matter illogical and crooked it is. I would love to hear some of your anecdotes about particular places and people.
NG
1. Xining is not in Tibet!
2. I am not stupid and won’t tell u about my trip and spill the beans!
lol…what is your Tibet? Clarify with real borders with China. Is TAR your Tibet? Btw, Xining is China name, Siling is Tibetan name.
NG
@NG Only Xining and surrounding area about 15% of landmass of Sichuan is China and remaining 85% is Tibetan area.
@NG if u don’t know, don’t argue!
Tibet has a saying: if you argue with stupid, you are bound loose….
Let me phrase the saying:
I am not afraid to debate with hundreds of scholars, but I am afraid to argue with one ignorant and stupid person.
对牛弹琴！
NG
This is Sakya Pandita’s quote. Don’t plagiarize!
Plus have some humility. You are the first scholar who does not know where Xining is!!!
@utsug: there is no point in being obstinate. Read what I wrote, I said phrasing Tibetan saying. Everyone knows kung gyaltsen……you think you alone? You think more about slang?
Dude, I am just laughing for your stupidity…..
Do you know why? I breathed the air there! I don’t just get information from books or internet…..I just had unfiltered information to the region. That what I would call homeland….I don’t call India or Nepal birth place as many of your type brainwashed and illiterate donkeys…..so live in denial and ignorance…..maybe it’s your freedom to be stupid.
NG
NG a “scholar”…? What a joke! He’s at best a self-employed fifty-cent soldier (I say self-employed because even the Chinese bastards wouldn’t like to have such a stupid guy on their side!).
your writing is excellent keep it up! i have been to tibet i fact i was born there it is a fascinating place. by the way all these comments are great, and this website is well-made
I found this real academic conference is more valuable, factual, and objective than JN’s self cooked Tibetan history through eyes of his kudras wallas from Lhasa and extrapolating the tiny history onto entire Tibetan cultural landmass. Check it out and hold yourself tight!
“Amdo and the Mongols”
http://www.iats.info/panel-1-amdo-and-the-mongols-3/
NG
Great! NG, now thinking of himself as a scholar, has been googling “tibetan studies” and found a page of a conference that hasn’t yet taken place! NG, your erudition is boundless. At least as much as your stupidity!
@ 128
NG, same thing can be said to you. Why extrapolating the tiny history of Amdo onto the other provinces?
I’m sure there are many Amdo historians and Khampa historians and writers who are doing good job like Jamyang Norbu la. and we can all learn from each other o.k?
sorry , it should be @ 280 , my dyslexia
NG, apart from extolling an event that hasn’t taken place yet, did you realize this “real academic conference” is advised, among others, by Prof. Elliot Sperling, the scholar that you accused of being a “buddy” of Jamyang Norbu?
i want to see more of your writing because it is very interesting for all that support tibet.
free tibet for all and this website is by the way the most magnificent and honest website. thank you very much Jamyang norbu la
@Lhakpa Dolma: I did not extrapolate Amdo history onto Tibetan history, it is pointless and impractical. My understanding of exile identity and notion of Tibet by exiles are missing a huge point. All this time, I am trying to educate you guys about those nitty gritty historical things, because of amdo’s own history, it does not naturally falls under declaration of Indepedence by 13th Dalai Lama. Amdo region at the least not ruled by kudras from Lhasa, therefore lhasa centric view like Jamyang NOrbu and Eliot Sperling do not do any justice to history as well as unrealistic as far as curry situation is concerned. It is not Chinese fault, it is the natural history of people and region, maybe part of the evolution.
NG
“All this time, I am trying to educate you guys” LMAO…!
Rather than indulge as being the “Judge sahib” (ofcourse lazy chicken does that all the time), just point the error and misunderstanding if there is any and debate..bring out the facts.Its good for all.Emothional elements wont help at all.
NG, Thanks for sharing that event.Its good to listen to all.
NG (aka Palden Kyab): For your information, the Middle Way Approach is not claiming Xining municipality (西宁市) nor the Tsoshar prefecture (海东市). According to the “Memorandum on Geniune (sic) Autonomy”, only areas with an autonomous status are included in CTA’s plan (http://bit.ly/1agzsPb). Even the village of Taktser, the birthplace of His Holiness, or the famous monastery of Kumbum for that matter, are not included in the deal…
From CTA’s website: Tibet At a Glance
http://tibet.net/about-tibet/tibet-at-a-glance/
Administration: Under Chinese rule, Tibet is divided into the following administrative units: a) Tibet Autonomous Region,
b) Qinghai Province,
c) Tianzu Tibetan Autonomous County and Gannan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture in Gansu Province, d) Aba Tibetan-Qiang Autonomous Prefecture, Ganzi Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture and Mili Tibetan Autonomous County in Sichuan Province, e) Dechen Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture in Yunnan Province.
As far as China’s current map is concerned, Hai Dong or Tso Shar or 海东 is located in Qing Hai province and Silang or 西宁 is the provincial capital city of Qing Hai. Unless there was a sudden jurisdiction and administrative re-adjustment happened last night…..it should stand the truth that both Hai Dong and Xining are every much part of Qinghai Province and of course Dalai Lama’s own hometown also inside Qinghai Province and governed from Xining.
NG
NG,
The page you linked is a simplistic and a very poor description of Tibet’s true extend. The CTA doesn’t even seem to know — you neither — that Tianzu is actually Pari (དཔའ་རིས་), and that Aba and Ganzi are Chinese spellings…
Read the Memorandum, it couldn’t be clearer on CTA’s claim: “all the areas CURRENTLY DESIGNATED BY THE PRC as Tibetan autonomous areas”.
These “autonomous areas” mentioned in the Memorandum does not simply stop at provincial, prefectural or county levels as you tend to believe, but extend to townships and villages. This has been privately confirmed to me by one of the two former special envoys.
This means that ONLY counties or townships designated as “Tibetan” are claimed by Dharamshala, such as, in the case of the Yadzi Salar Autonomous County (ཡ་རྫི་ས་ལར་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་རྫོང་ / 循化撒拉族自治县), townships of Dobi (རྡོ་སྦིས་ / 道帏藏族乡), Bido (བིས་མདོ་ / 文都藏族乡, the birthplace of the late Panchen Lama), Karing (ཀ་རིང་ / 尕楞藏族乡) and Kangtsa (རྐང་ཚ་ / 岗察藏族乡, where Wangchen Norbu chose to self-immolate on 19 November 2012), or such as some sixteen Tibetan townships in other counties of the Tsoshar Prefecture and Xining Municipality.
The Middle Way Approach’s territorial logic does therefore NOT claim the county of Tsongkha Khar (ཅོང་ཁ་མཁར་ / 平安县), where Taktser is located and where not a single township is designated as Tibetan, NOT the county of Rusar (རུ་གསར་རྫོང་ / 湟中县) where Kumbum is located, and definitely NOT the city of Xining. It would also NOT include the Mongol Autonomous county of Yülgennyin (ཡུལ་རྒན་ཉིན་སོག་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་རྫོང་ / 河南蒙古族自治县) in the Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture of Malho (རྨ་ལྷོ་བོད་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་ཁུལ་ / 黄南藏族自治州) — the very county of Henan that attracted two speakers at the Ulan Bator conference you previously mentioned.
And yet, it would include territories in the Gansu province that are NOT listed on the CTA’s page you linked, such as eight Tibetan townships located in three different municipalities.
But I guess, here, it’s becoming too complicated for your “scholarship”, uh…?
Lets have a look at the whole picture and then describe the intent of jurisdictional necessity:
[Daveno: your uncommented long copy-paste from CTA’s website has been replaced by a link. You are invited to comment, but with something original! Golok Ambum, webmaster]
Memorandum on Geniune Autonomy for the Tibetan people
http://goo.gl/VFjWr
where is UMA???????????
it is just talk………
Christophe Besucet:
Your observation about ignorance of CTA and its officer absolutely right, it also includes sikyong Lobsang Sangey and Rangzen Guru Jamyang Norbu, and all the exiled folks. They are just stupid when come to demographic balance and administrative units and its Tibetan and Chinese nomenclatures. Here I got nothing to deny your correct observation except agreeing with you. Although I cannot take your whitemen’s attitude of all-I-Know!
Tianzu is although supposed to be a Chinese name, but it is absolutely wrong one. It supposed to be Tianzhu (天祝藏族自治县/དཔའ་རིས་བོད་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་རྫོང༌།), and you could not catch this simple mistake, maybe it is due to your mandarin inabilities.
When comes to sino-Tibetan borderland, it is just getting complicated and interesting, exiles has no idea about it. For them, all should be absolutely negative and living in denial mode. Both rangzen wallas and middle-pathers have no clearcut goal about what are they really asking for. Worse, rangzen wallas support for their professed rangzen is the “history” before invasion of 1949, “shimla treaty”, and recently pompous display of “13th Dalai lama’s independence declaration”. No matter how historical it is, their support and claim do not even goes beyond earlier land that kudras ruled with iron hands which borders at chamdo. Amdowas and khampas did not consider themselves as political citizen of then Tibet, rather a Tibetan nationality who has a spiritual link to religious king in Lhasa regardless of where and how the spiritual king was selected, reincarnated, or politically manipulated. One thing I appreciate about you is, you took considerable amount of time to read the gray areas as well. I read this same thing you posted somewhere long time ago. After knowing ground reality of those areas, I am still perplexed about how did you choose to co-habit with rangzen guru Jamyang norbu and all armchair warriors on rangzen alliance websites. As per Dalai Lama’a logic goes, in an autonomous Tibet, every person who considers them as Tibetan nationality and who are indigenous people of the land; then they should be included in the local autonomous area if they want to. How this sound logic will translate into practical policy is another matter. What I do know is, history for exiles are just over, this is just beginning of an end to a fanciful story in the anal of world history, only cited and footnoted when education about displaced refugees are discussed.
I am not sure where and what you read, although the page to which I linked riddled with mistakes, at the least it did list territories in general about Tibetan areas in southern Gansu as, “Tianzu (天祝藏族自治县/དཔའ་རིས་བོད་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་རྫོང༌།)) Tibetan Autonomous County and Gannan Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture (甘南藏族自治州/ཀན་ལྷོ་བོད་རིགས་རང་སྐྱོང་ཁུལ་) in Gansu Province,” It seems you have trouble with eight Tibetan counties (not townships) in Gan Nan Tibetan Prefectures.
1. Hezuo City (གཙོས་གྲོང་ཁྱིར།)/合作市 This is the regional capital city of Gan Nan Prefecture!
2. Lintian County (ལིན་ཐན་རྫོང་)/ 临潭县
3. Jone County (ཅོ་ནེ་རྫོང་།)/卓尼县
4. Zhuqu County (འབྲུག་ཆུ་རྫོང་)/ 舟曲县
5. Tewo County (ཐེ་བོ་ རྫོང་)/ 迭部县
6. Maqu County (རྨ་ཆུ་རྫོང)/ 玛曲县
7. Luqu County (གླུ་ཆུ་རྫོང་)/ 碌曲县
8. Xiahe County (བསང་ཆུ་རྫོང་)/ 夏河县
Hopefully, these detailed description about regions in the sino-Tibetan borderland is not too complicated for your self-proclaimed “scholarship” about this region. I would be laughing my ass out when some pseudo-Whiteman scholars will teach me about the place where I come from.
To add another reasons about stupidity of CTA is, couple of years back, when there was a huge flood in Zhuqu or Drukchu county, CTA did not bother to offer their usual prayers and collecting donations for the victims. However, they did all sort of things when earthquake hit Je Kun Do or Kyi Ku Dok in the same year. I remind you and your ignorant Tibetan exile followers, let me give you this beautiful, yet a sad song by a singer from that exact place, titled as “Drukqu: my fatherland/ འབྲུག་ཆུ་ ངའི་ཕ་ཁྱིམ་/舟曲我的家园”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of10g_O5Krc
Getting back to amdo in general, each amdo region has its own political history, also slightly different dialectic history too. Not just amdo as a region should be treated in its own intellectual field, but also each sub region should be treated in its own political and historical context. It does not necessary to factor in either Chinese or Kudras of Lhasa’s history. When talking of history, you always loose the essence when looking to the region from different angle, such as through a lhasa centric view such as CTA or Jamyang Norbu’s hugely biased and unsubstantiated views. It is also true that when history of these places is distorted when viewed through perspectives of mandarins in Beijing. It also looses its unique human touch and history when viewed and subjected by white’s analysis…..it always looses the essence. This same statement is also true for kham regions. I hope you learnt something new here or at least you have a lesson of exercising a degree of humility in the future when dealing with certain areas you either learnt through someone’s writing and then you conjure up all sorts of imaginations and wrongly contextualizing the place and its people. The safest place for your scholarship audience about these areas is, showcase it too all your exile followers and clueless lousy folks, even fellow white men and women, they will clap you and praise you as scholars. Not by people who actually lived there and breathed the airs and experienced the unique areas with unique songs and dances and cultures.
NG
NG,
That’s exactly what I mean, it becoming too complicated for you! Since you like to do some Googling, do a search for “藏族乡” in Gansu and you’ll see what I mean by eight Tibetan townships / villages in other counties / prefectures than Pari and Kanlho. Could it be that you don’t know your birthplace so well…?
Lets say Karma Choephel la is wrong about what he said. That doesn’t mean he deserved to be cursed by everybody. People have to remember, we live in 21st century. There is no question every Tibetan honor Dalai lama including Jamwang Norbu la himself, that doesn’t mean every Tibetans going to agree with Dalai Lama when it comes to the political view. We are going to see more and more people disagreeing with His Holiness from now on. I do not see any problem with this. In fact this is very healthy signs of democratic society. We all have to learn how to respect our differences and resolve our common objective that is to bring freedom to all Tibetan people whichever way may be.
Jayang norbu, how can you say that every Tibetan who follows MWA has rangtsen in their heart? You just follow your faith and stop guessing,.And about the particular student who asked question to his holiness could be his own question , it could be anything, so please stop giving your dirty mind to our community…. You can follow what you believe and be within that, don’t try to drag attention towards a terror like you…
i think most of the comments in favor of JN are made by chinese hired to create rift in tibetan unity, so i hope JN doesn’t take them as support from tibetans.
Jamyang Norbu, you and your followers are indeed objects of sincere compassion. we have a light like HHDL though your are following from what your ignorant brain says. you are double ignorant, because you are lack of understanding that you are inside ignorance of capped-vase. you and me are same inside ignorance of capped- vase but we understood it. i am better than you. wake up now silly.
Once again Karmachophel La-is the object of HDL’s ire; Jamyang La thanks for bringing the unsavoury episode in the public glare. Since no two people can think alike its understandable there are plethora of opinions regarding the issue both for and against, this is laudable as it is an expression of evolving democratic knowledge and awareness which is crucial and invaluable in the nascent stage of the Tibetan democratic experience.
The Dalai Lama was really angry with Karma Chophel for having accused him of being a liar by the former stating that HDL has Rangzen at heart. It is really incomprehensible about the Dalai Lama’s anger over Rangzen at heart comment; Karmachophel didn’t accuse the HDL of being a traitor for giving up Rangzen. HDL has most kindly with full compassion and love devolved his political authority to the elected representative, thanks to him the Tibetans have a democratic institution albeit with all its warts. Of all the democratic ideals freedom of speech is the central pillar around which other democratic ideals are built,hence it was the freedom of expression exercised by Karma Chophel that had angered the Dalai Lama, this makes no sense, even if it is the Dalai Lama he is seriously in need of doing some genuine introspection.
Jamayangla’s assertion that Samdhong Rinpoche, Sikyong and other high profile MWA proponents must go back to Tibet to implement the policy in close collaboration with Chinese officials is an idea worth contemplating, but not including the Dalai Lama in his suggestion smacks of hypocrisy and double standard which is a new facade of Jamyangla which may intrigue his long time followers and admirers; Jamyangla’s credibility of calling the spade a spade is at stake for the first time as his religious mind was allowed to exercise the upper-hand over his objective free mind as an objective and fearless writer. As it has been rightly pointed out by Jamyangla that MWA is the signature policy of the Dalai Lama, it is only the Dalai Lama who can win over the Chinese with his own explanations and arguments.
@Mathang@ No one has right to judge someone’s motivation unless clearly expressed. Karma Choephel is confused between rangzen and rangwang. Rangwang is the word writter in the prayer, so let rang be rawang as it means freedom and let rangzen be rangzen it means independence. These two terms are neither mutually exclusive nor exactly the same meaning or implication. Therefore, first study the primary source which is the first step to do research and make an educated opinions. This means you need to fix your poor Tibetan language first, which I am pretty sure you dont want to learn or badly failed in your school years or loathed it so much. Yet I can feel you will always accuse Chinese communist of destroying Tibetan language.
Anyway, this is an old story and let it die down. It seems you did not keep up with the evolving world and failed to keep up.
By the way, Karma Choephel is an old man in exile just like you and everyone else, weathering out in other’s land and putting root and waiting for demise, so your niave emotions serve any practical purpose at all.
NG
@NG Sorry, your argument is a mix of confusion and irrational reasoning which bears no resonance with the subject under discussion. By the way,i am trying my best to know and understand what my Tibetan has go to do with the subject matter.
@33 Do you think living under Chinese will result in Rangwang. Rang (self) Wang(Power). For me Rangwang and Rangsten are same.
The prayer you are talking about was written long before “Middleway” was launched.
Why we are still fooled by Chinese illusion since 1950.
Under the perspective of self-determination, if Cone or Drukchu people wish to integrate into a future Tibetan state, their will should of course be respected, irregardless of previous political situation. I really don’t understand this part of the Middle Way logic.
@Mathang Togma: People who cannot read the primary sources, in this case, the prayer that was composed, opining on its meaning which is actually diverges or we say, misinterpret it, is as dangerous as fanatics. The time for rumors to control people are over.
For me, rangwang means Freedom, rangzen means Independence. Therefore, making rangwang to rangzen is wrong and have ulterior motive. This is as simple as this. We don’t have to be scholars to understand the difference in meanings. Even English word Freedom and Independence are vastly different!
NG
@37 Do you think without independence there will be freedom in Tibet? Even at the village level Chinese are controlling it.
Recently village leader who is a senior citizen (old) was killed to install a Chinese or Chinese puppet.
Without political freedom there will be neither religious or any basic freedom. That is the reason why wars are waged in the world to protect it. Why its so hard for the Tibetans to understand it.
In the past different Tibetan Buddhist sects have fought each others viciously for the same reason.
@NG The prayer you are talking about is irrelevant to the subject under discussion; there are countless many thousand Buddhist prayers and i am not sure which prayer you are talking about. Anyway, i am not inclined to discuss about prayers, nay, even a particular prayer. Coming to the main point, i am in total agreement with Karze’s explanation of Rangwang and Rangzen; Rangwang and Rangzen are interdependent,the integration and the collation of the two into one indivisible political concept might be termed “Independence”; hence, without the former you can’t have the latter.