EXAMINING PROF. SAMDHONG RINPOCHE’S RECENT REMARKS.
Samdhong Rinpoche’s tenure as kalon tripa or prime minister will be up in a few months, but it seems he is determined not to leave without delivering some more of his trademark profundities that earlier caused so much dismay to intelligent and dedicated Tibetans. We all remember his statement to the press that… “the Tibet issue is the internal affair of the PRC“, or that President Obama should not irritate China’s leaders, or that the Chinese high-speed railway would benefit the Tibetan people, or (to The New York Times) that Tibetan political freedom (“separation from China”) was not as important as the spiritual welfare of the Chinese people.
On May 23rd this year in New York City, Rinpoche made a statement that Tibetans advocating independence or calling for genuine democracy in exile society were more dangerous than Shugden practitioners or the Chinese Communists. He tried to leave himself a little wiggle-room from possible criticism by using a number of qualifiers, “..we think” or “..a bit” . But it doesn’t really change the substance and focus of his attack. A video excerpt of the statement (with English sub-titles) is provided below.
In addition to his denunciation about some people being “more dangerous than the Chinese Communists” Rinpoche adds the very provocative charge that Rangzen advocates were going around insulting and denigrating His Holiness. Of course that is an absolute lie. Rangzen advocates have certainly voiced criticism of the Dalai Lama’s giving up Tibetan independence but nowhere have I heard or read any statement from Rangzen advocates that could be construed as abusive or insulting. In making such an inflammatory statement I think Rinpoche is under a definite moral obligation to point out specific instances of such abuse and denigration, name names or cite publications, meetings or conferences where they occurred.
If Rinpoche doesn’t do that then of course his claims are just rabble-rousing of an absolutely sleazy kind. Furthermore if he makes such provocative statements to the public, then it is must lead people to wonder what sort of false and distorted information could he be passing on to His Holiness about Rangzen advocates.
It is rather disturbing to note that just a few weeks ago in Dharamshala at the conclusion of the TYC General Body Meeting, when participants were allowed an audience with the Dalai Lama, someone asked his Holiness his opinion on Samdhong Rinpoche’s statement that people who advocated rangzen were more dangerous than the Communist Chinese and Shugden practitioners. His Holiness is reported to have become extremely disturbed and abruptly walked out of the meeting. I heard that that this incident created a furore in McLeod Ganj and the usual mob (of religious-right yahoos) were declaring that they would beat up the person who posed the question.
The puzzling thing is that His Holiness has till this incident been very understanding with Rangzen advocates. Whatever our criticisms about His Holiness giving up Tibetan independence, we have to appreciate the fact that he has consistently stated that he did not oppose those Tibetans who refused to accept the Middle Way. In fact in his many previous meetings with Tibetan youths and in fact with all sorts of different organizations and people, he has always insisted that Tibetans who believed in Rangzen had the right to their belief, and that people should not consider them against His Holiness or the Tibetan government.
So why this very unusual reaction on the part of His Holiness now?
Earlier in our history Tibetans had been through a similar polarizing period in the fifties when the young Dalai Lama was attempting to cooperate with Communist Chinese and implement their policies in Tibet. At the same time a segment of loyal government officials, the Khampa resistance led by Andru Gompo Tashi, Gyalo Thondup and Shakabpa in Kalimpong, and patriotic and concerned citizens, soldiers and monks, bitterly opposed these policies. They also resented the fact of the Dalai Lama being co-opted by the Chinese.
In such a tense and volatile situation, when everyone was suspicious of everyone else, the Dalai Lama’s Lord chamberlain, Phala, had to assume the very difficult and very dangerous role of a liaison, an intermediary between all these parties. He maintained contacts with Andru Gompo Tashi, loyal government officials and military officers, and even with the two agents sent by the CIA. He attempted to persuade these people that the Dalai Lama and the kashag were not against them. At the same time he made sure that His Holiness understand that the actions of the Khampas and certain loyal officials (which the Chinese were constantly denouncing to the Dalai Lama) were not directed against him personally but were rather being undertaken for his well-being and the freedom of the nation.
Of course, subsequent events turned out tragically. Nonetheless it must be said that it was through the efforts of Kungo Phala and some others, that divergent groups in our society managed in the end to work together, even if only a little while, so that the escape of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government was so miraculously effected under almost impossible conditions.
This guy is impossible. He should retire and hole up in some cave somewhere before he does any more damage to the Tibetan cause. Or he should continue with his organic farms, say, in the Varanasi?
I think street-smart-rangzen-walas can’t get the very essence of his speech so is trying to create a talking point here.
Let me start pointing out how his speech in Tibetan is misconstrued here.
In the video sometimes around 1:28, he says in Tibetan…… མང་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཆ་ཚང་ཞིག་བེད་སྤྱོད་གཏོང་དགོས་བྱུང་ན། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་བརྩིས་མེད་བྱེད་དགོས་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པའི་བཟོ་འདྲ་བོ།
In English subtitle, བརྩིས་མེད་ is translated as insult which means མཚན་དམོད་།
You know what I am saying?
May this samdhong sleep next year around this time!
This guy is the most divisive person in Tibetan society today. He is a liar, power hungry, dralok, immoral whatever what not. We know what kind of person he is now. I am surprise he still wears monk’s robe. His action is worse than worse lay men.
You Know what, rinpoche made this outrageous statement this time to deflect people from evaluating his kalon tripa tenure. His performance was pathetic filled with same kind of lies, nepotism, desolution and just big talk. He wants people’s attention on the rangzen’s activist than on his performance.
Get a pant or Dodhi, man.
Arihant,
I may not be Varanasi graduate but i speak fluent tibetan and can understand it very well. Just the fact he put rangzen activist and Shugdhen in same sentences/breath, makes me mad and feel slapping on his bald head.
I think Samdhong lama is more dangerous than chinese and shugden stokpa. He doesn’t follow any advice from HH the Dalai Lama. He is more a follower of Ghandhi and Jai Krishna Murthi than HH the dalai Lama. He is more friendly with Indian Dhodhi wala than Tibetan intelligensia, bureaucrats, and common people. He is egotistical who were looking for his marbles for the last almost 10 years
Jamyang Lak,
If you disagree with Samdhong Lama, send open letters to Samdhong Lama. Have debate!
T.D la, I agree with what you are saying here. Katri Samdhong isn’t like Kim Jong-il of North Korea inaccessible to media. Samdhong has been democratically elected leader of Tibet. We should be mature enough to respect the sentiment of majority of Tibetans here. That’s democracy in practice.
There are KP and Kalsang Phuntsok here in this blog. I don’t know if they are one. It doesn’t matter who is who.
KP la,
Let’s stop name calling here. I am going to translate what Katri Samdhong stated in the above speech into English quickly. If we care about what he said, let discuss what he said in the above clip and we can go from there.
Here is the translation:
If you asked what is a great fear in our thoughts, it is the declining of faith and loyalty of Gyalwa Rinpoche worsening in our community year by year. The followers of Dholgyal for instance, they don’t have a depth of base (of argument against His Holiness). It’s their instable emotional stress or are being temporarily misled by their teacher (ལམ་སྟོན་པ་) on a wrong path. There are many among Dholgyal followers who are denigrating Gyalwa Rinpoche. We are not particularly surprised about that.
These days, relating to the cause and issue of Tibet on the question of whether Rangzen should be advocated, they are people who criticize and insult to the name of Gyalwa Rinpoche. If democracy is to implement in its entirety, (Rangzen walas) are sort of like creating an impression that In the façade of modernity, Gyalwa Rinpoche is irrelevant (བརྩིས་མེད) to the (democratic process). Gyalwa Rinpoche is criticized and sneered at by citing these issues. I think those who are criticizing Gyalwa Rinpoche by picking up some of His performances are a bit more dangerous than Chinese communists and followers of Dholgyal.
Recently in news papers in India, there was survey done on the question of which was more important: Gyalwa Rinpoche or democracy. It has been forgotten whose addition is that in the Tibetan exile community the name of democracy to talk about and the ability to enjoy the advantages of democracy. If we didn’t have a great leader like Gyalwa Rinpoche, would we a handful of us be able to reach, maintain and enjoy full democratic process? It’s important to think about it. When asked if Gyalwa Rinpoche was more important than democracy or democracy was more important than Gyalwa Rinpoche. It implies that Gyalwa Rinpoche is a contrary to and an obstacle of democracy in the minds of those asking these questions.
Arihant, There are more than Rangzen walas here.There is one more group.
1.Those who claims 1/2 of today’s China belongs to Tibet and are ready to wage war.
And as far as my non-varanasi translation goes of this speech,its all “Sampa la”-“I think”.
And I think the sky is white.
Our democracy still immature like little baby. Most of people understand what democracy means but when it comes practice people become over sensitive when somebody do something or say something against some body view.
“Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than the Chinese Communists” and “ Rangzen advocates were going around insulting and denigrating His Holiness” this statement is so dangerous this may discourage younger generation to step up fight for our Freedom.
People in exile communities, specially Dharamsala think that Samdhoung Lama is ultimate leader and everything he says prefect and sometime people even exaggerate his knowledge and things that he has done without investigate outcome. Samdhoung Lama also acts like he is a super than anyone else. That is why this kind statement threw on people wholeheartedly working for our freedom hurting and insulting.
It is time let him go and go forever. I am so tired to see he holds the Kalon’s spot and take us to nowhere.
Having said that guys remember freedom of speech is practised above nothing else.
Arihant,
You shouldn’t be concerned about who is who on this blog. Just make your point. May be we are two people or may be we are the same. If you think we should be open about our identity on this blog, then may be you should begin by telling us Your real name.
Now about the Open letter suggestion by TD and you, what do you think this blog is? I am pretty sure there is no restriction on Samdhong and his chamchaas to provide evidence here on this blog to defend his statement. Or are you and TD already trying to do it?
Guess what we are not impressed. Samdhong should be ashamed of what he says in this video and provide an official apology to the Rangzen advocates.
Under the Rinpoche’s administration:
The Tibetan Government in Exile became the Exile Tibetan Polity. The Tibetan issue became an internal affair of China. Dmangs-Tso or Democracy became Mangtso or Majority rule. Now as a parting shot, the enemy is not China, but the Rangtsan advocates. It seems to me that the first job of the next PM should be to address these matters and state clearly what definitions he/she will be presiding over.
We need to watch the full video, the full speech. That’s important if we want to gain the full import of this speech.
I have watched and listened to this excerpt thrice. Here’s my analysis.
It appears Rinpoche is warning about what he thinks as the growing ultra-nationalism and radicalism among the youth, who are at the ‘fringe’ of Tibetan society!
Perhaps Rinpoche fears a Tibetan ‘Nathuram Godse’ might emerge!
Or else, I can’t imagine a Tibetan PM, elected by the Tibetan people, comparing legitimate Rangzen activists being considered more dangerous than Shugden practitioners and Chinese communists!
Hi guys
Remember democractical freedom and freedom of speech is what we are talking about.
I understand Samdhuong Lama’s speech might hurt some people’s feeling but we can’t give up or got so much anger just for simply speech.
Democracy is verity and defferent.
སྐུ་ཞབས་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ནས་བཀའ་ཁྲི་མཆོག་གི་གཏམ་བཤད་ལས་ཟུར་བཏོན་བྱས་ནས་གཞོན་སྐྱེས་ཤེས་ཡོན་མང་དག་གཅིག་ལ་བཀའ་ཁྲི་མཆོག་ནི་རྫུན་གཏམ་གྱི་རྒྱལ་བོའམ་འགོ་དཔོན་རྫུན་ཅན་གཅིག་ཡིན་པར་ལོག་འགྲེལ་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པ་འདི་ལ་ངས་ནམ་ཡང་ཁས་ལེན་མི་ཐུབ། རང་བཙན་ཟེར་བ་ནི་ཚིག་སྐམ་པོ་ཞིག་ལས་གང་ཡང་མ་ཡིན། ངས་ཀྱས་བོད་འདི་སྔ་མོ་ནས་རང་བཙན་གྱི་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་གཅིག་ཡིན་པར་འདོད་ཀྱང། ད་ལྟའི་ཆར་ང་རང་ཚོའི་བོད་ཀྱི་ཆོས་རིག ཡུལ་གོམས་གཤིས་ལུགས་བཟང་པོ་འདི་བཞིན་ཉམས་རྒུད་དུ་སོང་བཞིན་མི་རིགས་རྩ་མེད་དུ་འགྲོ་ལ་ཉེན་ཡང། ཁྱེད་དང་ཁྱེད་ལྟ་བའི་ལྟ་བ་མཁྲེགས་བཟུང་ཅན་འགས་ད་དུང་ཡང་འབྲས་བུ་མེད་པའི་འཐབ་རྩོད་ཞིག་རྩོད་བཞིན་མཆིས་པས། ཤེས་ཡོན་ཅན་ཞིག་ཡིན་པར་གཞན་ལ་སྨོས་ཀྱང་མི་བདེ་བར་འདུག དེ་བས་ཁྱེད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་བ་མཁྲེགས་བཟུང་འདི་བཞིན་དོར་ནས་༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་གཞུང་གི་རྩོད་བཞིན་པའི་རང་སྐྱོང་ཚད་ལྡན་དེར་འདོད་ན་ལེགས། དེ་ནི་བོད་འདི་སྔ་མོ་ནས་རང་བཙན་མིན་པར་མི་རྩིས་ལ། རང་བཙན་མི་འདོད་པ་ཡང་མ་ཡིན། དེ་ནི་གཙོ་བོ་ང་རང་ཚོའི་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཀྱི་ཆོས་རིག ཡུལ་གོམས་གཤིས་ལུགས་སོགས་མེད་པར་བརླག་ཉེ་ཆེ་བའི་དེས་ཡིན། ཅི་སྟེ་ང་ཚོར་རང་བཙན་ཞིག་བྱུང་ནས་བོད་མི་རིགས་ཀྱི་ཁྱད་འཔགས་ཀྱི་ཁྱད་ཆོས་འདི་བཞིན་བརླག་ཕྱིན་། ང་ཚོར་རང་བཙན་ཡོད་ཀྱང་དགོས་པ་མེད་ལ། ཡོད་ཀྱང་མི་ཕན། བསམ་བློ་ནན་མོ་ཞིག་ཐོངས། གཅིག་བྱས་ན་། ཁྱེད་ཉིད་༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྲིད་བྱུས་དེར་རྒྱབ་སྐྱོར་བྱས་ན། མི་རྣམས་ཀྱིས་ཁྱེད་ནི་ལྟ་བ་འགྱུར་སླ་བའི་གང་ཟག་གཅིག་ཏུ་རྩིས་ཀྱི་རེད་བསམ་པའི་དོགས་པ་ཡོད་ཚེ། དེ་ནི་དོན་གནད་ཆུང་ཆུང་ཞིག་ལས་གང་ཡང་མ་ཡིན།
གང་ཟག་གཅིག་གི་གནད་དོན་ལས། རྒྱལ་ཁབ་གཅིག་དང་མི་རིགས་ཤིག་ཀྱི་གནད་དོན་དེ་གལ་ཆེ། སྐུ་མཁྱེན་བསམ་བློ་ནན་མོ་བཞིག་ཐོངས་རོགས།
ངས་གཏམ་བཤད་འདི་བཞིན་ཉན་པ་ཡིན། ཁོང་གི་རང་བཙན་རྩོད་མཁན་ནམ་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ་ཞེས་གང་ཡང་གསུང་གི་མི་འདུག་ལ། ལྷག་པར་རང་བཙན་སྒྲུབ་དང་མི་སྒྲུབ་ཟེར་བ་ལས། གང་ཡང་མི་འདུག་པས། སྐུ་མཁྱེན་དོན་མེད་ཀྱི་རྙོག་གླེང་བཟོ་རྩིས་མ་གནང་རོགས། ཅི་སྟེ་རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་གཏམ་བཤད་ཀྱི་ཚིག་དོན་རྣམས་གོ་མི་ཐུབ་ན་། ཡང་ནས་ཡང་དུ་ཉན་ཞིབ་ཀྱིས་ཟིན་ཐོ་སྤེལ་རོགས། ཁྱེད་ལྟ་བུའི་མཁས་དབང་གི་གོ་སར་སླེབས་ནས་གཞོན་སྐྱེས་མང་དག་ཤིག་ལམ་ལོག་ཏུ་འཁྲིད་ན་དེ་ནི་ཤིན་ཏུ་ནས་ཉེས་ཅན་ཞིག་ཡིན།
Choni, nobody is saying PM doesn’t have the right to say what he said but simply that what he said was preposterous, divisive, and hurtful. We hate his insinuation that we are not grateful to Kundun simply because we are against Middlepath because that is a deliberate and malicious statement. And that too from the highest office of our own govt, to which I pay yearly as a proud and patriotic citizen. As a prime minister, isn’t his job to bring groups together and create unity? Comparing us and even calling Rangzen advocates a tad more dangerous than Chinese (the one who actually took over our country and raped our people and our land!) and Dhogyal worshippers is something only someone like Ngapo would utter. We want him to explain his statement even if that means he will backpaddle and say he was ‘mis-quoted’ or ‘mis-videoed’ or somebody dubbed over his voice.
This question is to Jamyang Norbu la. Here is a quote from what you have written here. “Tibetans advocating independence or calling for genuine democracy in exile society were more dangerous than Shugden practitioners or the Chinese Communists”. Please tell me where in Samdhong’s speech did he say that independence advocates were more dangerous than Chinese communists or Shugden practitioners.
This question goes to Choni Tsutrim. please prove where in the video Katri Samdhong said “Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than the Chinese Communists” and “ Rangzen advocates were going around insulting and denigrating His Holiness” If you can’t prove it, then you are nothing more than རི་བོང་ཅལ་འདྲོགས། and anything you wrote based on that assumption was nonsense.
Kalsang Phunstok la, let’s treat this an open letter and let’s discuss Jamnor’s accusation of Katri Samdhong here. Let’s dissect word by word what Katri Samdhong stated in the speech.
Arihant,
Please don’t try to invent meanings. There may be more than one meaning for a word but not infinite. Samdhong is trying to create a divide where none exists. If you are trying to imply that he didn’t meant Rangzen advocates then who is he talking about? Anyway you look at it, it is a very rresponsible thing to paint with such a broad brush. If he is talking about any specific organization or person he should state that clearly.
HTGT,
If your analysis is correct then I think Samdhong should be least worried about a “Nathuram Godse” popping out among the Rangzen advocates. Nathuram was a religious fanatic. And as far as I know majority of the Rangzen advocates are either liberal secularists or not so religous. His fear should be in a different direction altogether.
Hello Arihant,
First all the quotation in question was Jamyang la’s paraphrase of samdhong’s speech to achieve greater clarity. Real translation was rightly quoted in the first sentence after the Video clip. Don’t get mixed up.
FYI:
Listen again from 1.03 min- “We can understand Dhogyal propitiator…”
Around 1.13 min. He was referring to Tibetan Independence (“Rangzen Drup dhang ma Drup…. gyalwa rinpoche la Surtsa dhang tsemed shuekhen”)
At 1.46- he said…”Those (people) bit more dangerous than Communist Chinese and Dhogyal follower.
from 1.56- he rambles about the press questions regarding democracy v/s H.H the Dalai Lama. He went coocoo on his logic… That was not clear but the intention was to meant that somebody chose Democracy over HHDL. So what????- what is so big deal about it. That was just one individual and besides what do you think, rinpoche? You were reading that news paper questions in between the lines and deliberately missing this issue with something irrevalent topic. We all agree that HH has given us this precious gift of democracy and spoon fed us despite the reluctancy in acceptance by the religious right. We are indeed very thankful. Choosing Democracy over HH doesn’t make him less significant and less important in our community. These concerns are fabricated and was deliberately aimed to tarnish the image of (rangzen advocate).
Thats why….we think (infact, i think) Rinpoche is more dangerous than Sadam Hussien and Bin Laden.
I say this because i don’t have to cite any sources and evidences.
Thank you.
KP
Hello Arihant
Did you watched the video? ““Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than the Chinese Communists, and more dangrous than Shugden practitioners.
Samdhong Lama clearly said in video. Please watch it again.
I mean I am agree HH’s middle path but I’m totally disagree everything Samdhoug Lama said in video. That is bullshit.
Right now I am thinking he is one so dangrous in path of our freedom struggle because he might give wrong messages to lot of people who don’t know that reality and messed up everything along the way.
I just can’t believe what I heard and saw in video.
Without getting into the heated and at times futile exchanges that the concerned have made in here, I believe that this issue has snowballed into a controversy that was in the the first place unwanted.
Katri Samdhong Rinpoche’s metion of ‘those who insult His Holiness citing rangzen and modern (?) democracy’ is in itself, I believe, a politically correct statement. We do detest those handfull of brainwashed and paid chinese shouting anti-Dalai slogans and likewise never would we want Tibetans doing the same carrying ‘Rangzen’ placards.
Yet the fact of the matter is that there has never been a case in which a rangzen organisation or a rangzen activist has even come near ‘insulting or insinuating’ His Holiness. And if my understanding of the high morals that bind the rangzen activists is correct, then there shall never be any such incidents in the future as well.
So therefore, Katri’s statement with regard as a threat that is being exploited by our enemies is definitely noteworthy but as a baseless accusation warrants explanation.
As for Jamyang Norbu la, being an avid follower of your writings and principles, I humbly submit that this topic could have been best left to die its natural death.
I think it’s totally misunderstood of what Rinpoche had said in that speech. So better listen it again and again, then you will get the exact point. I feel so sorry to those who didn’t understand it very clearly.
Politically some of you might be more dangerous than those factional parties we hate most!
Because some people are like an abondoned weapons in the battle field.
Dear Rangzen guy, I read all the comments and force me to write something, Regarding about Rangzen guy, I feel so sorry to say that they are just empty vessels make much noise, particularly in Rangzen level. Why i am telling this? because in reallity, Rangzen guys are doing nothing, they just organize protest occasionally thats it. what they are doing for “Rangzen” tell me? always against Middle path policy. I am sure may be they are good in Facebook, writting beautiful words about Tibet independence and taking excuse of Tibetans in Tibet. Dear brothers and sisters, if you really need Rangzen than come up with new ideas and stand for Rangzen and influence people. Tibetans public need leader who can guide and lead us in Rangzen path without Dalai Lama. You don’t have to be in Kalon Tripa seat. just do it, people will follow you. but unfortunately nobody is there who can guide us like His Holiness. Rangzen leaders need Kalon Tripa and chitue seat and they will think about “Rangzen” look at the “Freedom fighter history” those great leaders came up with their own ideas and lead people for freedom. I know you have lot of creative answers to protect Rangzen guy. But it doesn’t matter for me, because this is the reallity.
Please don’t preach or bring in hate word here.We are matured,yet politically active folks of 20th century.
Please keep on debating on this speech.This will help realise the premedidated results to be achieved by this speech.
To me the key issue (within the limit of this clip) is his fear of the perceived “decline in faith in HHDL among Tibetans”
Samdong Rinpoche is not overly worried with Shugden worshippers and Chinese communists because these have traditionally been opposed to HHDL and their opposition to HHDL is nothing new.
What he is worried is the perceived “opposition” from among Tibetans to HHDL’s authority.
Concrete examples given to elucidate his point are:
1. Criticism of HHDL regarding His policy on fundamental issue of Tibet, i.e. for not pursuing independence.
2. The tendency of some Tibetans to perceive leadership of HHDL and full exercise of democracy as mutually exclusive phenomenon.
I have not heard him mention “Rangzen advocates” even once in the clip posted here.
Thus, I wonder if “Rangzen advocates” are not being a bit too hypersensitive regarding this speech.
To me Samdong Rinpoche sounds more like a deeply faithful disciple voicing his fear and concern in regard to perceived “disrespect” and “loss of faith” in his Guru among hitherto faithful followers.
His tenure is going to end soon, and I for one would rather let the sleeping dog lie for now.
We might be blowing things out of proportion unnecessarily.
TCL
TCL,
Professing faith in HHDL is not the purpose of the political seat from where he is making this speech. And if anybody is deemed above criticism, then it is not democracy, and we should stop using the word to describe our political system.
It is a good thing that his tenure is ending soon. But he has attempted here to make whatever political division that exists between Middle Way and Rangzen advocates more toxic, may be as a parting shot. And that’s a very irresponsible thing to do, the intentions of which cannot be good.
One of the implications of his comments is that the average Tibetan will perceive anybody that talks about Rangzen as being desrespectful to HHDL. A blunt translation of what he says is that any critic of HHDL is more dangerous than the Chinese communists. He fails to draw the line where criticism ends and desrespectfulness begins.
It is possible that we might be dwelling on his comments more than we should, but this is some thing that can’t be ignored.
By the way, its good to have you back.
Well,
Samdhong Rinpoche in reality is raising Chinese Concern here- that the younger Tibetan would not compromise with China. Perhaps because he considered Tibet as intergral part to China and speaking on behalf of Chinese govt.
Rangzen advocate disagrees with middle path becuase it looks so politically naive. If rangzen is being considered as impossible, so does the middle path.
If we want to stay with China, then just scrap the whole middle path policy. Just focus on already existed autonomous regions in Tibet, try to improve on it. Why make things more commplicated for China? That’s also middle path, and probably more easier to secure it if time is of the essence and Tibetan buddhist culture is degrading.
I can foresee, though, that middle path follower will ultimately choose the existing sytem in Chinese controlled Tibet, and will try to seek some compromise-meaningful autonomy. I foresee so based on Samdhong’s statements in the past, a synopsis of which was presented in the first paragraph of this article.
IF they do, only then middle path will look more “pragmatic” than rangzen path. For now they don’t have courage to anger large portion of tibetan population.
Until then, don’t ask rangzen advocate for a plan. Its not fair. But, don’t assume we don’t have one. If you still insist, then others have to do their own part first. Invite our own scholars to testify in the chithus, and have a civilise discussion with kashag and chithus lhenzom.
Don’t bad talk us, to put it lightly. Don’t tell TGIE officials not to go to TYC function. Don’t dishonor TYC and other rangzen advocate/scholar by either not inviting to the Special, or any meeting for general public, or by offering only two tickets for that special meeting last year.
If he genuinely cares about our cause, and his absurd feeling, “declining faith in HHDL”, Samdhong should talk to us MORE than his Indian Dhothi wala/scholars, J. Krishinamurthi followers, Ghandhi followers etc., etc.
Be open minded and invite our own scholars for talks and discussions, and provide them opportunity and facilities like you give to your indian scholar friends.
Did you ever do that? If not your concern is just on the lip and not in your heart.
Don’t even open your mouth. We have had too much of your mouth in the last 10 years. You have already demoralized tibetan civil servants, results of which led to attrition of over 50% of the most qualfied and experienced civil servants. He was complaining last year and the reason he cites in “people going to greener pasture” which is laughable. Thats whole another topic.
This time we make sure that we protest him like we do to Chinese leader and Never get demoralized.
Keep up the rangzen spirit.
I agree with Sherab and Karma.
Dear KP la,
If your parents had raised you as a Tibetan, you don’t have to have a graduation degree from Varanasi to understand Tibetan Samdhong is speaking. If you have correctly understood what Samdhong had stated in his speech, you would know that not all Dholgyal practitioners denigrates Gyalwa Rinpoche and not all rangzen advocates goes around criticizing Gyalwa Rinpoche.
You should also understand this. Though they are adversary, the controversy of the practice of Dholgyal and communist Chinese are not an ultimate threat to the cause of Tibet.
Choni la,
I watched the video many times before I translated the video clip as close to the original Tibetan language as I possibly could. In fact, I was in the hall when Katri gave this speech. Up until some of the so called rangzen advocates intentionally screwed up his speech to create a talking point around Samdhong, it didn’t specifically strike my attention.
If you are not རི་བོང་ཅལ་འདྲོགས like most of rangzen walas, please give me a timeline in the speech where Katri stated that “Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than the Chinese Communists” and “Rangzen advocates were going around insulting and denigrating His Holiness”. Remember we are not deciphering a century old script here.
I would appreciate if you (and so called rangzen walas ) are not steering away from this topic before it is well debated.
Kalsang Phuntsok la, It’s for your comment #19
I am not inventing anything here. You (and over-sensitized Ribong Chal-drog རི་བོང་ཅལ་འདྲོགས་ཚོ) heard Jamnor had thrown a dry same all same rotten broken branch from the same all same fruitless tree into a river. You heard a splashing sound of rangzen clashing with the middle way path. All you wanted to hear was Samdhong “insulting” Rangzen walas. For you guys, it just makes sense to run in flock, doesn’t matter if you don’t know what you are running into.
Please read my translation of Samdhong’s speech in the comment #8 and tell me or correct me of my “invention”.
Let me borrow your sentence here. “It is a very irresponsible thing to paint with such a broad brush” of what Samdhong pointed out as some in the name of rangzen advocacy as all rangzen advocates.
In my opinion what actually disturbed His Holiness during that audience was the very mention of the ‘shugden practioners’ at that general meeting.
There’s no denying the fact that the IDEA of Tibetan independence is being eliminated, slowly but SURELY!
And the source of this elimination, as the late Prof. Dawa Norbu-la has documented in his book China’s Tibet policy, lies with what he refers to as hardcore Han Chinese nationalists dominating the discourse of Tibetan affairs in CCP!
In this particular speech of Prof. Rinpoche, it might reflect the growing anxiety over the loss of faith in the Dalai Lama’s charismatic authority, due to the increasing secularization and modernization of Tibetans in exile!
Hey Jamyang la.
Though it is important in a democratic society like ours’ to have so many oppositions and i see these as an important growth factor for political maturity.i sought many ideas from your book and speeches to built my knowledge. But this is too much and now all your armchair actions and speeches has become valueless for me. A person like you can’t validate Prof.Samdhong rinpoche’s speech and this clearly shows your political immaturity.!!!!
Arihant, I listened to the video several times and I observed that your first sentence is made up. He never said “if you asked what is a great fear in our minds..” He went on straight away to say “in our minds, one great fear..’. Since we are being nitpicky here, I thought that was a good place to start. I found the translation in the video pretty accurate.
Anyhow, what do you mean by your post#34
“You should also understand this. Though they are adversary, the controversy of the practice of Dholgyal and communist Chinese are not an ultimate threat to the cause of Tibet.” I find that sentence very disturbing.
Tenpa Dhargyal Gapshi la,
Katri Samdhong says in Tibetan ང་ཚོའི་བསམ་བློའི་ནང་ལ་ཞེད་སྣང་ཆེན་པོ་གཅིག་ག་རེ་ཡོང་གི་ཡོད་རེད་ཟེར་ན། (If you asked what is one great fear in our minds..)
do you know what ག་རེ་ means in Tibetan language?
Gosh. Why am I spoon-feeding the meanings of Tibetan sentences and even Tibetan words into those who say they speak and understand Tibetan language?
Gotta go to work tomorrow. So I don’t have time explaining or elaborating this; “You should also understand this. Though they are adversary, the controversy of the practice of Dholgyal and communist Chinese are not an ultimate threat to the cause of Tibet.”
Hopefully I see you tomorrow evening here.
Arihant,
You still can’t shake away your habit of making assumptions. May be you don’t like the fact that people other than yourself have brains too and better one than yours at that. I don’t have to echo whatever JN la says. I am under no obligation to follow him whereever he goes. It just so happens that most of what he has written and said is true and his ideas resonates with what I and many of the educated Tibetans believe.He is a 100% patriot in my judgement. I can make my own decision about what is true and what is fabrication.
You can try to twist as much as you like the meanings but the words once spoken from the mouth cannot be taken back. The egg has been dropped. There is one option for Samdhong now, offer a clear explanation of what he meant and back that up with a sincere apology to the Rangzen advocates.
And yes, what the hell are you trying to say in #34?
I agree with Semshuk’s comment!
arihaunt, ‘serna’ means to say or to tell, not to ask. in italic you can have ‘i’, not ‘you’.
”communist Chinese are not an ultimate threat to the cause of Tibet” this simply shows the height of insanity you have reached in tickling the balls of samdong so he may get into another round of hysterical laughter at rangzen advocates and supporters. under the circumstances, chinese in tibet and those chinese who, directly or indirectly, support the occupation of tibet are absolute threat to us and future tibet. if i were to judge a personality from his statements in the last 10 years, i would say samdong is the greatest threat to tibetan sense of nationhood and its future. his words are razor sharp and they continue to cut us up and divide our community beyond repair. i hope and pray he leaves for a cave soon like milarepa did. the death and damage caused by milarepa 1000 years ago is nothing compared to death and the destruction caused by samdong’s nuclear missiles.
may he sacrifice his so called ”faith in his guru” for the greater good of tibet and its six million inhabitants!
may he overcome his political cunningness!
om mani padme hung!
I also agree with Semshuk… thanks
Tibetan Leadership Set To Offer Further Dangerous Concessions to China? http://tibettruth.com/2010/09/14/exiled-tibetan-governments-further-surrender-to-china/
Hi guys
We all need calm down Please, Somebody wrote “Rangzen guys just empty vessels make much noise” I have never heard or seen empty vessels make noise, that is so funny. However we all need calm and be brothers and sisters try to share ideas and views nicely so that we all can understand each other.
Having said that here I want clearly say that my view on this topic that None of us more dangrous than communist China because China killed over 2 million our brothers and sisters and destoyed everything we had for thousands of years. therefore we all need come together and work tirelessly to regain on country no matter what method we use( middle path or Rangzen) our ultimatel goal is same.
“Rangzen guys are doing nothing, they just organize protest occasionally thats it” someone wrote.
Organized protest should be something, not nothing. Please don’t say this type of thing here because we have long way to go.
thanks
. what they are doing for “Rangzen” tell me? always
Hi Melo Ralug la,
We could use “one” as a pronoun in an objective manner, but as you know it carries some highfalutin feel to it in the U.S. Instead we can use “you”. It’s impersonal pronoun so it doesn’t mean you as a second person versus I as a first person. ག་རེ་ཡོང་གི་ཡོད་རེད་ཟེར་ན should be understood as a question. Anyway, the meaning of the sentence will not change in either way.
Kalsang Phuntsok la,
Katri Samdhong should not apologize to sincere Rangzen advocates because he hasn’t said anything that is degrading to the true freedom fighters. What he seems to imply is that those who are riding the name of the advocacy of Rangzen while criticizing the Middle Way Path Policy that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has championed for his life, and denigrating Tibetan culture and tradition in the name of “modernity of democracy”.
Mr. Samdhong has clearly stated that Rangzen is not in the hands of TGIE. This should give a clear direction where you fight your rangzen.
The second point is this so called modern democracy. What is the “modernity” of democracy anyway? What are the premises of this so called modernity of democracy? Should Tibetan democracy be like American’s or British’s or Indian’s? Are we losing our own identity, our own pride in our own culture and tradition?
Now tell me Jamyang Norbu, Tenpa Dhargyal Gapshi, Tsering, KP and Kalsang Phuntsok, Thenorbu, Choni, Lha G. Pa and Melo Ralug where in the video clip did Katri Samdhong say or even imply that all Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than Communist Chinese or Dholgyal practitioners?
If you can’t prove it, acknowledge it then I will agree to talk ‘about other issues” that Katri Samdhong is “guilty” of.
I find it disturbing that most of us yearn for democracy and yet will not tolerate Dholgyal practitioners.
I do not follow the deity but I do understand that if the Tibetans would want a Government in Exile that is democratic …then it is of utmost importance that a person’s faith be protected by the Government…..anything less is not Democratic.
It is sad especially coming from a Tibetan but I do not want a Free Tibet to become like Haiti or some of these African nations where Democracy is just bones without meat.
So those that truly want Democracy start with accepting the Dolgyal practitoners right to their faith….and also that the Government be secular.
Samdong is going crazy here and there. He has done that before. He diappointed more people than had given hopes for Tibetans inside and out. He is going in the history as Ghandhi “wonabe” and brown nosing Chinese for wrong direction. He better jet out or I will go crazy and that followed by Tibetans.
Can somebody show Samdong the way out, right now?
Long live democrocy and long live Tibet!!!
Arihant:
“”where in the video clip did Katri Samdhong say or even imply that all Rangzen advocates are more dangerous than Communist Chinese or Dholgyal practitioners?”
“What he seems to imply is that those who are riding the name of the advocacy of Rangzen while criticizing the Middle Way Path Policy that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has championed for his life, and denigrating Tibetan culture and tradition in the name of “modernity of democracy”.””
I am not sure where you are headin
Tsering Topgyal,
Thank you for pointing that out. I don’t believe in spirits or worship them. To me condemning one form of spirit worship while continuing with others is laughable. I know its part of our tradition, but its an embarassing one. In a democratic system people should be allowed to worship whoever they want but I wish they refrain from deluding themselves. As for our government, Shugden controversy is the biggest reason why our enemies as well as some well-wishing critics are calling it theocratic.
Arihant,
You and I can perhaps say things and don’t have to explain what it means because we are not in a position where we should be answerable to all spectrum of population. Samdhong is the Prime Minister and he should know better the implications of what he says even if he doesn’t intend to hurt those he didn’t want to. Let’s for a minute say his intention is not to hurt the feelings of Rangzen advocates, he still owes an explanation as to who is he referring to. And if he fails to provide a reasonable explanation then we can assume that either his motives are sinister or that his brain is showing the effects of aging. And with one more year still left in his tenure, both the above diagnosis can’t be good to the cause of Tibet.
And YOU Sir, still owes us an explanation about what you mean by your post #34.
Till then, my friend, my opinion about your view will be based on inconsistencies pointed out by THENORBU IN #54. Cheer up, that’s a good thing. You are allowed to doubt.
Hey guys,
Arihant is like an other hopeless brainwashed kids of communist china. He won’t accept even if all the facts are presented. He probaly may be one of those guys who beleive that Tibetan govt. will cease to function without him and was rooting to scrap the two term limits of kalon tripa.
He would keep asking or “where in the video that said….” even after we disected word by word and minute by min.
Good luck with your saviour, Arihant.
I am waiting for Jamyang la’s Dangerous Liaison (II). Please include Mr. Samdhong’s notoriety in bringing down the morale of Tibetan civil servants and his sectarinism in varanasi also. His authorative style of governance, lies, misleds etc.
onwards,
KP
Very important question you have raised in comment #54 Thenorbu la.
After I answer it, it will surely reinvogorate your curiosity to take a different look at what Jamnor is trying to do with the speech to mislead you guys.
Norbu la,
What Jamnor wants you to understand about the speech is that Samdhong is attacking all rangzen advocates. Though it’s not true, it comes as nature to feel that when “one of us is attacked, we feel like all of us is attacked”. Instead of him being attacked, Jamnor screams out and says all rangzen advocates have been attacked. The fact is Mr.Samdhong is pointing out those (a small segment of rangzen advocates) who rides the high tidal wave of independence advocacy to criticize His Holiness, and those who cries out for a “genuine democracy” in exile by denigrating our own culture and tradition.
What is a “genuine democracy” for those crying bachas? For those, it’s the carbon copy of one of the constitution of Western countries. Even CCP knows that is just stupid.
A genuine democracy should be understood as an organic home grown products of its people, it’s culture, it’s tradition.
The second quotation clarifies that it’s not all rangzen advocates but a segment of it.
So these two small segments within rangzen advocates are more dangerous than Dolgyal practitioners and communist Chinese.
Hope this clears out some of the strains on the brain left out after brainwashed by Jamnor.
KP la,
The money order from CIA hasn’t been cleared through his bank so you may have to wait a little long for the next Dangerous Liaison. Just making it up. I know I don’t make up things that I don’t know.
Arihant,
Congratulations, you are the perfect desciple of Samdhong. You have managed to drive the wedge your guru has so recklessly hammered even deeper.
“organic home grown products of its people, it’s culture, it’s tradition” sounds like something you are smoking. LOL.
Arihaunt and others. READ my posts before making comments. I clearly stated that Rimpoche was not being straightforward with his statement, and that he was trying to leave himself a little wiggle room from possible criticism by using a number of qualifiers”. But I added that “It doesn’t change the substance of his attack.
For instance the principal sentence in the statement by Rimpoche has a built in ambiguity “These days concerning the fundamental issue of whether to undertake (the task of) Tibetan independence or not, there are people who mock (surza) and personally insult (tsen-mey)His Holiness.” Well, who exactly are these people who do these terrible things?
We know that regarding the fundamental issue of rangzen there are essentially two sides, the Rangzen activists and the Middle Pathers. Are Middle Pathers saying nasty things about HH? If not, who is Rimpoche implying is doing that. Obviously Rangzen Activists. Do I have to go any further in this? And Rimpoche clearly says that these people are a bit more dangerous than Chinese Communists or Shugden worshippers. If as, Arihaunt says that Rimpoche is talking about a “SMALL segment” then how can they be “more dangerous than the Communist Chinese”. Clearly all Tibetans (TYC and SFT members included) and all those inside Tibet braving their lives calling for RANGZEN,must be included in Rimpoche’s accusation. Otherwise how could they be more dangerous than the Communists?
If this “small segment” exists at all
S Rimpoche, Arihaunt or other apologists should name those people to clear up the situation. It is their duty. Otherwise they should shut up.
This sort of general smear-tactics is all too common in American politics. Republican leaders never come out openly and say that President Obama is a Muslim. Instead they resort to half-truths, like saying that his father was a Muslim or emphasizing the “Hussein” each time they use his name. They also never openly and declare the Obama was not born in America. Instead they resort to exclaiming “Well I never saw his birth-certificate.” Which could be technically true, but everyone know that the president’s birth certificate was released by the Obama campaign in 2007. But then again the Republican right argue that the document is not called a birth certificate but “Certification of Live Birth”. And they keep up their whole smear campaign going in spite of the fact that Hawaiian government and judicial officials have repeated that the document in question was the same thing.
The intention of the Republican leadership is clearly to poison the minds of the American people against Barack Obama. In our case Samdong Rimpoche, using pretty much the same tactics as Rush Limbaugh,seems equally determined to spread his half-truths in order to malign and alienate those who believe in and struggle for an independent Tibet. This is a dangerous and destructive game to play.
To our Varanasi friends may I in offer this Bengali (Sanskrit?)warning against such immoral expediencies: ardha-satya mithya apeksa bhayankara: Half-truth is more dangerous than falsehood.
By the way, some Chitues (MPs) have sponsored a motion in drotsog (assembly), seeking a change in the clause of Tsatrim (constitution) that would allow Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche to contest for the third time in row for the Kalon Tripa post!
The Chitues say they received many samshoks (signed petitions) from Tibet, urging Rinpoche to continue as the Kalon Tripa of Tibetan government in exile. The final voting will be done today. Let’s see what happens!
Similar samshoks were also purported to have received by the Tibetan government in exile many years ago, endorsing His Holiness’ decision to change the course of our struggle from Rangzen to Rangkyong!
However, these samshoks have never been made public by the Tibetan government in exile, raising many doubts in the minds of skeptics as to the authenticity and, thus legitimacy, of the decisions reached on the basis of the samshoks !
Jamyang lak,
The video clip you posted along with your article is genuine. There is no doubt over that. But the supposed translation in English (subtitle) is mixed with personal interpretation. There is no doub over that also.
Jamyang lak is accusing Samdhong Rinpoche of “poison(ing) the minds” of Tibetan people by “spreading half truths”. In fact, Jamyang Lak is really poisoning our young mind by spreading extremism. I really appreciate your informative articles about Tibet and Tibetan people. At the same time I consider your political view is outdated. It is not because you choose Rangzen.
Some time I also think that you don’t understand politics at all. The reason might be that you never spent a single day having political responsiblity of our government on your shoulder. You never try to understand your opponents points as well!
Yes! Samdhong Rinpoche did not point out specifically. At the same time, as already mentioned by someone before, that he did not say all Rangzen fighters are more dangerous than China and others. They are some elements AMONG RANGZEN FIGHTERS WHO ALWAYS TRY TO DIVIDE TIBETAN PEOPLE ON THE BASIS IDEOLOGY. And in the name of criticism, some kind of ideological division is appearing among our younger generation. That is dangerous. What happened KOREA, GERMANY and VIETNAM? I think you know all these thing better than me.
Please do not try to divide us. Leave us alone. That is what Samdhong Rinpoche worries about.
UNITY. UNITY. UNITY.
Arihunt, How much do i owe you for your lecture?
You probably need to concentrate more on reading in between the lines,get more training on analysing speech on what hasn’t been said and why there is more importance being place on things and other cues that are being used.
Now we are even!!
Samdhong Koopdhak(Arihant)
S. Rinpoche is more worried about the slow dying of gelukpa supremacy than anything else. Rotation of power sharing among the different schools of Buddhism or religion is inevitable.
བཀའ་ཁྲི་ཟམ་གདོང་རིན་པོ་ཆེས་ཨ་རིར་གནས་སྡོད་བོད་མི་རྣམས་ལ་བཀའ་སློབ་
གནང་ཡོད་པ་ལས། མཁས་དབང་འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུས་དགག་པ་
རྒྱག་ཡུལ་ཆེད་དུ་ཟུར་འདོན་བྱས་པ།
ང་ཚོའི་བསམ་བློའི་ནང་ལ་ཞེད་སྣང་ཆེན་པོ་གཅིག་ག་རེ་ཡོང་གི་ཡོད་རེད་ཟེར་ན། བོད་པའི་སྤྱི་
ཚོགས་ནང་ལ་༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་དད་པ་དམ་ཚིག་ཉམས་ཆག་འགྲོ་ཡ་འདི་ལོ་རེ་ལས་ལོ་རེ་ཆེ་རུ་ཡོང་གི་འདུག་བསམ་གྱི་ཡོད་རེད། དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་པ་ལྟ་བུ་ཞིག་ཡིན་པ་ཡིན་ན། དེ་ཙམ་གྱི་གཏིང་ཟབ་ཀྱི་གཞི་རྩ་གང་ཡང་ཡོད་མ་རེད། གློ་བུར་གྱི་སེམས་ཚོར་གཅིག་དང་གློ་བུར་
གྱི་ལམ་ལོག་པ་སྟོན་མཁན་ཚོའི་བསླུ་བྲིད་ཀྱི་འོག་ཏུ་ཕྱིན་ནས་འགྲོ་བསྡད་པ་གཅིག་རེད། དོལ་རྒྱལ་བསྟེན་སྲོལ་བྱེད་མཁན་ནང་༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན་མང་པོ་གཅིག་ཡོད་བསྡད་པ་རེད། དེ་ང་ཚོས་ཞེ་དྲགས་ཞེ་དྲགས་ཧ་ལས་ཀྱི་མི་འདུག ད་དེ་རིང་སང་ཉིན་བོད་ཀྱི་
རྩ་དོན་དང་འབྲེལ་བ་ཆགས་ནས་རང་བཙན་བསྒྲུབས་དང་མ་བསྒྲུབས། འདིའི་ཆ་ནས་༸སྐྱབས་
མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། ཡང་དེང་རབས་ཀྱི་གནས་ཚུལ་ལ་བསྙད་
ནས་མང་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཆ་ཚང་གཅིག་བེད་སྤྱོད་གཏང་དགོས་པ་འབྱུང་ན། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་
ཆེ་རྩིས་མེད་བྱེད་དགོས་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པའི་བཟོ་འདྲ་བོ། དེ་འདྲའི་གནས་ཚུལ་གྱི་ཐོག་ནས་༸རྒྱལ་བ་
རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་མཛད་པ་འཕྲིན་ལས་
ཁ་ཤས་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། འདི་ཚོ་རྒྱ་མི་གུང་ཁྲན་དང་དོལ་
རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་པ་ཚོ་ལས། ཏོག་ཙམ་ཞིག་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་ཡོད་རེད་བསམ་གྱི་ཡོད། ཉེ་ཆར་རྒྱ་
གར་གྱི་ནང་ལ། གསར་ཤོག་ཁག་གི་ནང་ལ་༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་གལ་ཆེ་གི་རེད་དམ། མང་གཙོ་གལ་
ཆེ་གི་རེད་དམ་ཟེར་ནས། དེ་འདྲའི་བསམ་ཚུལ་བསྡུས་པ་དེ་འདྲ་བྱུང་འདུག བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་
སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ནང་ལ་མང་གཙོ་ཟེར་བ་འདི་སྐད་ཆ་བཤད་རྒྱུ་ཡོད་པ་གཅིག་དང། མང་གཙོའི་ཁེ་
དབང་ལ་ཞེ་པོ་གཅིག་གི་རླབས་ཆེན་པོ་བྱས་ནས་ལོངས་སྤྱོད་ཐུབ་པ་འདི་སུའི་སྐུ་དྲིན་ལ་བརྟེན་
ནས་བྱུང་བ་རེད། དེ་བརྗེད་ཚར་བ་རེད་པ། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལྟ་བུ་དབུ་ཁྲིད་རླབས་ཆེན་
གཅིག་མེད་པ་ཡིན་ན། ང་ཚོ་བོད་མི་སྦར་མོ་གང་འདི་མང་གཙོ་ཡང་དག་པ་གཅིག་བྱས་ནས་བསྡད་ཀྱི་རེད་དམ། བསྡད་
ཐུབ་ཀྱི་རེད་དམ། མང་གཙོ་དེ་འདྲ་ཞིག་ལ་སླེབས་ཐུབ་ཀྱི་རེད་དམ། དེ་ང་ཚོས་དགོངས་པ་
བཞེས་དགོས་རྒྱུ་ཞིག་རེད་པ། ད་༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་གལ་ཆེ་གི་རེད་པས་མང་གཙོ་གལ་ཆེ་ཡི་
རེད་དྲིས་དུས་སྐབས་ལ། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་མང་གཙོའི་འགལ་ཟླ་ཡིན་པའི་བཟོ་འདྲ་པོ་ཞིག མང་
གཙོའི་འགོག་རྐྱེན་ཡིན་པའི་བཟོ་འདྲ་པོ་ཞིག བསམ་བློའི་ནང་ལ་དེ་འདྲ་འཁོར་ནས་ལབ་ཀྱི་ཡོད་
རེད་པ། །
Read the above articles in Tibetan very carefully and then write your comment on that. Many of people
totally misunderstood with what Kalon Tripa Samdong Rinpoche had said.
How can they, assuming they insult and denigrate the Dalai Lama concerning our ultimate cause, be a bit more dangerous than the Chinese communists and Shugden worshippers? How can you justify his associating subtly the rangzen advocates with these evil forces?
‘Growing pains’
I thought we were ushering a new period when our option for the next Prime Minister would be someone other than a member of the Clergy. We love and have great respect for all our Rempoches; but the rough and tumble of modern political world is not suitable for them.
Had one of the current candidates standing for the upcoming elections delivered this ‘debated message’; most people would have slammed him or her mercilessly.
The PRC maybe the next world economical power; but they are poor in some basic freedoms enjoyed by us. If we are to grow in our democracy we should practice it in all ways.
I am sorry to say I have missed the last few days and probably few more days due to internet outages in my area. I don’t know if it is Rinpoche and Arihant’s concentration of telepathy that disrupted the network but it is too much of a mere coincidence. So, I appeal that such practice not be used in civil discourse. Opps! I am supposed to say, ‘some people’s collective telepathy” “might have” caused the apparent anomaly. “I think”.
Be that as it may, JN has responded to your questions but we have yet to hear a reply from Prime Minister’s Dowling residence. We need to hear who these ‘some’ people are that are a tad more dangerous than Chinese and the dogyal worshippers. If that is not clarified, then it could refer to anybody or all Rangzen proponents or anybody with half a brain.
And Yeah! the term extension for PM has been rejected soundly.
Greetings To All Of You —
I am not Tibetan, I am an Anglo-American living in Santa Cruz, California. I beg your indulgence to address your community. Although I am not “one of you”, I am in fact a deeply devoted Buddhist of the Vajrayana Rite with a deep devotion to His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Nevertheless, I will not now – nor shall I ever, lecture all of you on ANYTHING. Nor shall I offer you any advice regarding which “way”, the path of open revolt which you call Rangzen versus the “Middle Way” approach of compromise and negotiation advocated by HHDL. I firmly believe these things are for YOU the Tibetan people to decide. All I would ask is a chance to address your community with some observations and wisdom from the “outside” which may or may not be enlightening.
First, let me assure all of you that neither this recent controversy – nor the many decades of time passed since occupation and exile, have dimmed in the slightest the enthusiasm of us “westerners” to support the cause of Tibetan freedom. Myself and many, many others here in California and around the globe are working day and night to support you – whatever path you choose as a nation. I will personally support you with all my resources until I sleep.
Second, regarding the supposed divisiveness and danger of this debate here exposed on this forum, I say to you, do not be afraid to argue ! As a “Jeffersonian Democrat” I will always believe that the antidote to speech you find offensive is NEVER less speech, but MORE free speech ! This is CRITICAL to a robust and long-lasting democracy. I say to you, get used to it – and I bid you welcome to the truly wonderful world of Free and effective democratic governance.
Thirdly, do not be overly alarmed when your elected leaders mess up, or say dumb things. It happens here in the USA all the time ! And often we have to simply ignore it and vote for them anyway ! Our leaders are, after all – only human, and as prone to simple error as the rest of us. One bad phrase, or even one bad speech – it is not the end of the world. It may not even indicate that the politician is particularly awful, and often helps them to learn and grow.
Finally, I would like to compare the Tibetan situation with some that are similar in recent history to shed some light on how the two paths at the heart of this debate might pan out in practice.
First, regarding the “Middle Way” of compromise. Granting true autonomy to Tibet could actually lead to true independence. Take the case of Kosovo. All parties to the peace treaty, including the Kosovo resistance and the USA all agreed unequivocally that Kosovo would only be autonomous and NEVER independent – remaining rather an integral part of Serbia. The USA especially was quite adamant. And yet when the Kosovo government boldly went against this treaty and recently declared true independence, the USA was the very first country to recognize them ! I HIGHLY suspect that the USA would do EXACTLY the same should such a situation evolve in Tibet.
Regarding Rangzen, or what I would call revolution. We in the USA understand the desire and even the need to occasionally secure your freedom by more “robust” methods. I would support you even in armed revolt, I would have only one question of you should you choose that path: To what address might I send the cash and rifles ?
I say, have faith and persevere in your conviction. Remember nations like Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania – countries whose separate cultural and national identity had been almost completely obliterated by the Soviet Union. And yet today those countries that barely even existed now have full independence and seats in the UN.
Whatever you decide as a nation, please be assured that there are MILLIONS of us “westerners” who will support you in any way we can.
PEACE — Christopher Doyon
That didn’t look right.
Please read it as: ‘we should practise it in all ways’…. phew!
Hi,
I really don’t understand these people who are purposely trying to denigrate PM.
We need to be less ‘insecure’ and learn from Christopher Doyon! Thanks!
Thank you Christopher.
Everyone likely has this already, but here is a much longer clip for context:
http://www.tibetonline.tv/videos/231/katri-concluding-talk-at-new-york
thanks Christopher for your unconditional support. I just wanted to clarify one thing though, which is that being Rangzen advocate doesn’t mean that it necessitates ‘violence’ as a mean to free Tibet. Even though what violence means seem pretty subjective but that is another topic altogether.
Samdhong’s speech in this video is making me very suspicious of his real motives. Like JN la said this is a very dangerous and destructive games. We all must pay very close attention to where he goes after he leaves office. I am hoping it is a cave somewhere in a remote part of the Himalaya. Volunteers will be welcomed to shut it close so he stays in it.
christopher duyon,
1 dollar, 5 or 500,000? fbi? chink informer? honey on a blade? what’s your physical address so i can pay you a visit? cash is enough. ak47 rifles will grow along 4200km himalayan border.
thanks for no dictation.
wanted el barto.
dead or alive $100,000!
@JN: I wonder why you don’t publish the full clip of the speech? Selective hearing?
The main purport of your article is to send a vibration of misinformed message across Tibetan globe that Katri is attacking all rangzen advocates. You missed the “main qualifier” in his speech that directs you to a population among Rangzen advocates. I am going to use your English version to point out the main qualifier. “These days concerning the fundamental issue of whether to undertake (the task of) Tibetan independence or not, there are people who mock (surza) and personally insult (tsen-mey) His Holiness.”
Katri said “there are people who” mock His Holiness. By now, you guys should understand that the main modifier is “there are those (people) who” riding a high tidal force of Rangzen and a “genuine democracy”…….
If you don’t agree with His Holiness’s Middle Way Path Policy, then just be honest about it. You don’t have to use Samdhong as a whipping boy.
Let me tell those who are crazy about a “genuine democracy”, an American style of Jeffersonian or Jacksonian or whatever. It’s well known fact that there are more Chinese in Tibet than Tibetans. Let say we regain Rangzen and we move back to Tibet. We are going to have a “genuine democracy” where majority will shape up the political landscape of Tibet by electing a Chinese Prime Minister for Tibet. At that time, you will bite your pen and burn your writings on a “genuine democracy”.
Thenorbu la, (comment # 65)
You owe me nothing for the lecture. I am just redirecting your lecture toward you. “You probably need to concentrate more on reading in between the lines,get more training on analysing speech on what hasn’t been said and why there is more importance being place on things and other cues that are being used.”
I hope I have answered your questions in your comment #54.
Tenpa Dhargyal Gapshi la, (comment #71)
You were definitely under some kind of spells. Look at the spelling of your name. I know my comments made you unconscious. As a Tibetan, I would like to encourage you to find some breathing techniques.
Let me tell you this. A bed bug crawling in your underwear is more dangerous than a cockroach eating up your breakfast.
In the Arihant Residence, neither bed bug nor cockroach will have a breathing space.
Arihant la,
“”It’s well known fact that there are more Chinese in Tibet than Tibetans. Let say we regain Rangzen and we move back to Tibet. We are going to have a “genuine democracy” where majority will shape up the political landscape of Tibet by electing a Chinese Prime Minister for Tibet. At that time, you will bite your pen and burn your writings on a “genuine democracy”.””
If we regain our Rangzen, there will be no Chinese left in Tibet by the time we step in to breath the freash air of fatherland…so no worries there Arihant la.
Samdhong koop-dhaak arihant la,
Once we struggle for independence, every chinese inside Tibet is a colonist and must leave. simple. Bhutan complex? They found the solution.
I guess I am not the first and I really really hope am not the last…Samdhong Rinpochee is a Tibetan official with a BIG big title…nothing else!
Many of us are placing far too much importance on his role than is really deserved.
Our parliment is a sham…democracy too….has been that way for quite a while and regretfully will remain in that mode for the near future.
A dear friend of mine recently asked me if I would watch the Kalon Tripa debate …my answer was that it would be a waste of time..like watching ‘American Idol’ without Simon…actually four or five Paula Abdul’s ….all in unison about the middle path and His Holiness.
hahahahahaha….good one Tsering Topgyal! The bit about American Idol’
What is Jamyang Norbu doing besides writing things that ultimately become a tool for China to use against the Tibetan and its leadership? Pen is surely a power but one should also understand the limitation too. Besides, many of the comments here seem to personally attack Samdhong Rinpoche for what you may confidently call “denigrate” a leadership. Good or bad, it is the choice of Tibetan people and we must learn to appreciate the democratically elected leader.
I fear if many of the people here love Rangzen so much that they hate Middle Way and in the process play into Chinese hands?
Jamyang la, please be realistic. Thanks,
Tsering Lak, you are the one who S.Rinpoche is meant for. Mind your language OKie.. I am really scared of having such a Tibetan like you in our community which is more worst then the Shugden Practitioner and Communist Chinese.
Hello everyone, please be careful of those people…
Karma from Dharamshala, I will give you my address even if you need Lo… Mind your langauge and don’t try to create trouble within Tibetan Community.
Hi! Karma la…………….
I support Ur point………………..
They r so many from inside who s working for the distruction of our nation……………..
Bod Gyal lo…………………..
who is this norbu samphel? the guy with somewhat deep voice on voa or the cta general secretary?
Check on rangzen.net. We published a very interesting article by Tenzin Nyinjey regarding Norbu Samphel’s response to Jamyang Norbu: “‘Democracy with Tibetan Characteristics’ – A Response!” http://bit.ly/bKHQZW
Karma lak with his/her chest thumping boldly from Dharamsala …
I would make an educated guess that you were part of the mob that attacked Jamyang Norbu a long time back for his (how dare you) play that may have poked some fun towards our Government officials.
The Bottom line is that Rangzen advocate never denigrate and insult His Holiness. We Love and respect him more than S. Rinpoche and other apologist.
It’s a fact that we disagree his policy. We feel that HH has many “advisors” both w/without our community that are not truthful. They often lie while trying to analyze give the lie to the notion that rangzen advocates are anti His holiness. One will denigrate the rangzen advocate while other will later support with their usual apologist manner do a damage control of sort and defend their “Khewang’s sppech” being misconstrued as has happen with the recent incidence. The whole thing is a pack of lie and denial. What is more worrying is that they do not have a pang of shame at lying .
Rangzen advocates are educated, level-headed, and logical people. We are stubornly against lies and distortion; be it Chinese or for that matter to our breathens.
We want to see His Holiness to be in his rightful place as out Leader in our own homeland without the hangamas of CHinese. Why can’t you see in that way? Our cause is great and our intentions are pure and our actions are are consistent. We will use His Holiness names to justify our agruments and will not pile up problems for your solve but will confront and reality and walk forward.
I believe, like every dad wants to see his child, you want to see us this way when you leave this world. They shouldn’t be any questions about our motivation and dedication.
Long Live H.H the Dalai Lama and Rangzen for Tibet.
KP
Oops, I meant “We will not” use His Holiness’s name to justify our arguments….
KP
Oops KP la! Something slipped. It’s parapraxis something that can’t repressed unconsciously.
Now you are silhouetting Rangzen against the backdrop of His Holiness. Now Samdhong and Umelam are synonym. What a strange world we are in.
TheNorbu and Tsering la,
Get real. Get real. Understand the reality on the ground.
Response to Norbu Sampell’s article
1) I didn’t see anybody said lost faith in His Holiness I am confused that Norbu S is talking about.
2) Jamyang Norbu’’ article is not dangerous piece rather Samdhoung Lama bulling statement is dangerous and disunity among Tibetans those who hold deferent view and take deferent approach.
3) Jamyang Norbu neither misunderstood nor misconstrued May 23,2010 Samdhong Lama Statement. Video is given shows so clearly that he made this bulling statement with name of Kalon Tripa. I was there that day in the hall but nobody get chance to ask question because it was his closing statement and that left sour feeling to many people including myself since then.
Jamyang Norbu is not only honest writer he is also truly Rangzen advocate. It is so clear that Norbu Sampell is defending Samdhoung Lama just because he was student of Samdhoung Lama. Samdhoung Lama to those from Varanasi is Lord of God but such partiality is not fair to turn the black hat on Jamyang Norbu described as rabble-rouser. This is a laughable, baseless and dishonest.
4)Fear what? His not afraid of Communist China, he is not afraid of evil practitioners but he fears people whole heartedly follow HH and at same time take deferent approach to fight for our freedom. As democratic society we all have rights to say what we want to say that is freedom of speech, sometime people may not be agree on everything but it is democracy but Samdhoun Lama and Norbu Sampell describe these views as warning decreasing faith, devotion and confident in HH among younger generation. This is total blankly dangerous criticism and discourage to those work on different approach rather than middle path. I myself follower of middle path but I am absolutely disagree such baseless criticism.
5) If Samdhoung Lama “ neither denouncing Rangzen advocates nor denigrating them” then what he was talking about. Video shows so clear, I don’t need to point out here again.S. “Rinpoche was sort of warning Rangzen advocates and others, that they should be careful and not loose their faith and confidence in His Holiness”.Let be clear here nobody in Rangzen advocate lost or loosing faith and confidence in HH because in my past 20 years in exile communities I have never ever heard or seen such thing except Evil practitioners. Therefore such warning is only served disappointment, divided among different view holders.
6) “We can not do any thing without His Holiness”. This has been the real communist China’s recitation. If one day HH pass’ away unfortunately, if we can not do anything then what we are fighting for. Do you mean that will be the end of our struggle? This is reason why we need different view and different approach so that we have options when something unfortunate happens. “Unique Tibetan Democracy” this new to me. I really don’t know what you trying to say here. Is “Unique Tibetan Democracy not allowed people have different view and approach? Is Unique made everything has to listen to what government say? What kind of disastrous you are talking about. Democracy has to have freedom of speech, if people not allowed to have their voice heard then what hell democracy we are practicing. Does anyone mentioned change status of His Holiness? You made yourself so confused here added all these baseless accusations.
7) “Rangzen people ‘do seem’ to suspect His Holiness’s political and secular judgment for Tibet and Tibetans.” That should not be called suspicious, because Rangzen people view is so clearly not else but Rangzen. We all know that why we would used word ‘suspect’ there is nothing need to suspected. Of course there are questions and concerns raised about middle way approach because they are Rangzen fighters but that is what democracy is all about. We can’t just mark them saying lost faith in His Holiness or against government they should have the rights to act and speaking.
8)You simply said TYC is serving communist China and no longer right hand of HH and not serving cause of Tibet and Tibetans with name of Modern democracy. I truly think that you misunderstood and misinterpreting or even misleading people who really don’t know the reality. I am so disappointed you (Norbu Sampell) as journalist a bridge among Tibetans different view holders but you instead facelessly and politically criticized Rangzen people and others simply because their political view and approach.
If we can’t have different view then there is not different from communist China. People don’t have rights to say and act in China. If our democracy should not be service as democracy or could not be service as democracy than that will be the discredit of His Holiness genuineness and what Chinese wants world see.
As a Tibetan we all need to be honest and truthful not partially or in a biased way to criticize innocent people. Just because someone taught you something in the past, he is perfectly right %100 on everything. Democracy is people’s rights thus different views should be welcomed.
Choni, that was a wonderful rebuttal for such a pathetic article. The title itself is totally divisive and deliberately fabricated to induce negative emotion for Jamyang Norbu. “Don’t lose faith in Kundun – a response to Jamyang Norbu’s article”. (arihant, I left something there for you to correct). What the hell kind of political smearing campaign is this? Strawman logic at its finest display. Make up an accusation and then confront a point that was never made. Such pathetic idiots don’t belong in a democracy and oddly enough might actually enjoy working for china.
Do we not have capable MPs in the parliament to ask Samdhong Rinpoche all these meaningful questions put forward by Jamyang Norbu as Rinpoche has said all these on many occassions?
If anything is said on HH Dalai Lama, bad or good, His Holiness is, I believe in every sense, best capable to respond to should His Holiness deems necessary.
Then why on earth is Samdhong Rinpoche making fuss unnecessarily? He must be surely diverting pressing questions about his tenure, where he surely has plenty to answer for. He sits on a elected chair yet does he listens to people’s concerns? No… go to Gangki n find yourself..
Samdhong Rinpoche also doesn’t seem to know the gravity of Dolgyal problem as well. He thinks it is a temporary and not an indept issue. Even HH Dalai Lama said on many occasion that it is complicated and has its roots since 5th Dalai Lama. Comparing Rangzen patriots to dolgyal followers is so insulting from the office of Kalon tripa.
Samdhong Rinpoche is simply egoistic and has plenty retract and apologise for before his tenure expires or else his guilty concience will drag him even in retirement.
Jamyang Norbu la, thanks for pikcing up this grave error or another slip by our PM.
Best wishes
Rinzin P
The root of the problem in our system is clearly exposed by Samdhong’s reckless statement. Its the interference if religion in the matter of state. Demanding faith and warning of consequences of losing it…
This is an insult to the intelligence of the Tibetan people.
As a Tibetan it’s a given that we respect His Holiness but respect for Kundun does not mean that we should not voice our opinion.
I am proud of our freedom fighters especially Andrug Gonpo Tashi for daring to stand up against the Chinese and the gift of a free Dalai Lama.
I respect Jamyang Norbu and Lhasang Tsering for their contribution towards the Tibetan cause in many other ways than just a speech on the 10th March.
As for Samdhong Rinpochee…yes we should respect his role as the Kalon Tripa but c’mon people…..wake up! smell the coffee beans… and thank god that he is not the Prime Minister of a Free Tibet.
As for the honest truth about our present situation….His Holiness has consistently said that he is not seeking independence and would be happy to be a Chinese citizen.
Has there been any movement from the Chinese side? Besides the eight rounds of talks that our own government has acknowledged to be a failure.
As a Tibetan we should be pissed! our country stolen, 1.2 million of our people dead and yet the Chinese have the nerve to heap insults towards our Kundun who has for the sake of compromise practically given everything that had to be given.
What is there left to give….I ask those that follow the Middle path?
Can’t we at the least fight for a Free Tibet?..because it is the right thing to do?
maybe…just maybe then the Chinese would take His Holiness seriously and not think that we Tibetans in exile are all nutured lambs.
Phayul.com just corrected their error about the identification of Norbu Samphel, the author of the article “Don’t lose faith in His Holiness – Response to J. Norbu’s article”. He is not the VOA anchorman. But didn’t announce who he actually is. A coward is all I can think of him.
Shemshuk:
Sorry charlie, but you are wrong. You said that rangzen guys dont do anything but make protests when you have no real idea what they are doing. China rightfully fears them and does what it can to arrest and torture and kill them.
Show some proof of what you say, otherwise you are just diddling with words.
Christopher Doyon:
I respect your stance. It is up to Tibetan people to decide their own destiny.
However I raise one point. Tibet, at least the TAR part of Tibet, IS already autonomous under the Chinese legal and administrative system. What has this autonomy gotten the Tibetans thus far?
So why should rangzen people wish to fight for more of that same thing?
These are questions I raise. Myself, being one of those dangerous people who believe that people should think for themselves and take their own lives and freedom back from any who would seek to deprive them of those.
Arihant la,
Sleep well,sleep well, you need some rest to come up with more organized thought.
Christopher Duyon
Thanks for supporting our cause. And also thanks for painting Rangzen seekers as some extremists who indulge in armed revolution.
Our struggle for freedom is not borne out of resentment due to chinese govt’s discriminatory policy, nor its like the communist party led by Mao Zedong trying to overthrow the ruling Nationlist govt.
It’s the case of one country that invaded another country illegally. We Tibetans, or Rangzen seekers, have every right to demand our country back, and we will demand it without resorting to violence. Our demand is based on truth and we dont need to a gun to prove it. Killing people and violence is for chinese to do who dont have evidence to back up their invasion, so they kill us to silence us.
We are still buddhist; we respect the sanctity of live of every sentient beings….but we will not back down from relentlessly pursuing the truth which is Rangzen for Tibet, without compromising the former. Your cash may help us in spreading our message across the world, but if you intend to send rifle also, we don’t need neither. Thank you.
Samdong’s subtle attack, or is it that subtle?, on rangzen doers and dreamers is to divert attention of our people from his ABJECT failure as katri in securing any substancial results from middle way approach in the past ten years. Deception of the multitude becomes very necessary to sustain his image. In the name of faith and penguin unity, he encourages us to be unquestioning poverty-striken subjects totally dependent on his gelug guru for this life and the next.
I have no faith in middle way and this is based entirely on our experience with uncle china for the past six decades. I respect the person of the Dalai Lama as a warm-hearted human being though. I love him to death but his policy is just trash given the deceptive nature of our big HAN master.
Well Samdong, Thanks for making us your political scapegoats. No third term, what a relief!
Norbu Samphel,the writer of some exile novel?, you too are impossible!
Dear friends,
It was really interesting reading Jamyang Norbu’s article and also comments from everywhere from every different thoughts and views.
I am not here to comment on Jamyang’s article nor on comments here,
but to remind and cheer all of you that this is how democracy should work with the existence of every thoughts, views and people’s voice.
We should not attack orally or of any harm to any individual for his/her speech or thoughts as its one’s right and we should be respecting it every time.
Alway words and speech moves like winds/waves, you can handle it but do not make it in such a way that will harm yourself or others as other’s happiness is always yours happiness in somehow someway in relativity.
Take this kind of YES or NO, RIGHT or WRONG as a sign of progress in terms of democracy, learning, sharing and understanding.
We need all these kind of people to contribute towards our very goal.
It is sad that millions of people in China are not able to get such opportunities calling it against the govt or leaders. One day another big bang theory is not so far to witness where the very hunger for economic growth of the world will lead us to a blast of human and resources that the next generation will be shocked to read the history of 20-21st century people’s hunger for money & power.
May peace prevail on earth with happiness on others as much as happiness to myself.
Clear Path
བརྩིས་མེད། = Insult
མཛད་པ་འཕྲིན་ལས། = great achievements
ཉེ་ཆར་རྒྱ་གར་གྱི་ནང་ལ་་་་་གསར་ཤོག་ཁག་གི་ནང་ལ་་ཡ = recently in some tibetan newspaper published in India
…………………………………………
Jamnor la, I think your Tiben knowledge is very very limited or you are trying to misled the younger generation here. I don’t aggree with what u have mentioned here. you have miss translated prim minister’s speech.
Samdhung Rinpoche should know what he should say and should not. I think he is overaging. He was one of my idols. I don’t know what happened to him.
The point is our Fredom seems to be fadeing day by day.
I advocate Rangzen, but I have never ever thought of defaming him and will never think of doing so, infact he is my, all Tibetans’, proud every thing.
As far as criticism is concerned, being critic of him and that of Umaylam is totally different, atleast I hope so.
@#31 Kalsang Phuntsok
I agree with all that you have written. 🙂
Although SR did not mention “Rangzen advocates” per se, what he is insinuating at is clear for all to see.
The question then arises…what to do about it?
Given the current mass mentality of and atmosphere within the TGIE, there is not much that can be done about it, unfortunately.
The fact that the Prime Minister made such a divisive public speech is a reflection of the fundamental flaw within our system of Choesi-nyidrel shung(religion and politics combined government).
Given his numerous bizarre comments over the year, it is as if he is suffering from some sort of “obsessive compulsive disorder”.
His obsessive fear of XXX (not sure what his fear/s exactly is/are) is relieved (??) only after he makes strange statements (compulsive behavior).
These strange statements at times are aimed at dividing the very people that he is supposed to unite and lead; while at other times culminates in declaring that Tibet’s future, which he has been entrusted to find a solution to in the first place, is of tertiary/secondary importance in the larger scheme of things.
If he had an ulterior motive behind his May 23rd speech, it is unmistakably to discredit anyone who questions Middle Path; to stigmatize them as “anti Dalai Lama” and to label them as “worse than the enemy itself”.
By dwelling too much on this speech and thereby amplifying his speech (to even those who haven’t heard it or are unlikely to hear it under usual circumstances), Rangzen advocates might be playing into the very hands that we wish to avoid.
Politicians using/misusing peoples “unquestioning faith in HHDL” for their own selfish purpose is nothing new. This is not the first time; nor will this be the last one in the foreseeable future.
It is not only the politicians who are to be blamed for this vicious cycle.
The mass’ mentality of wanting to believe everything that Kundun is supposed to have “said”, without questioning it at all.
Kundun’s “habit” of accepting a responsibility/decision if it is “Boed-mimang ne boedgul shugwa” (Tibetan people have requested/entrusted).
Exile politicians knew the mass’s and Kundun’s weaknesses from the very early years of exile. They have played this card over and over.
The mass is informed that it is “Kundun gi gongshe” (it is the wish of Kundun).
HHDL is informed that it is “Boed-mimang ne boedgul”.
All the while, it is their (politicians’) own wish, to further their own selfish aims/causes.
The exact card was used at the Special Meeting in 2008, and continues to be used.
So, what can we do to escape this vicious cycle?
2 things:
1. Have a longer term strategy aimed at secularizing our government, aimed at leaving religion out of politics.
2. Shorter term tactical approach aimed at electing PM and parliament members who are pro-Rangzen, or at the least who are not anti-Rangzen.
Point 1 above will require changing mass mentality through education, lectures, talks. But given the current mass mentality, the education/lectures should initially focus on hard facts proving Tibet’s independence (JN-la is doing a wonderful job with his Rangzen lectures) and history of struggle for freedom of currently independent countries (who were once under foreign dominion). We must not touch upon religion at all. Leave it completely out of the picture.
In order to bring about the change outlined in point 2 above, each of us must think beyond our regional and sectarian boundaries and put Tibet at the very top of our priority list.
The sole criteria for voting someone for PM should be: “Will this person bring about the change that will lead to Tibet’s independence eventually?”
Let us not lose ourselves into the instinctive desire to think in terms of “I am Khampa, so ……..OR, I am Kagyudpa, so……..”.
Let us focus our time and energy to choose a candidate who is liberal minded and who see things not through tunnel vision. It would be ideal of he/she is pro-Rangzen. If not, at least someone who does not see the RED every time Rangzen is heard.
TCL
དབུ་མའི་ལམ་ལགས།
ད་དེ་རིང་སང་ཉིན་བོད་ཀྱི་རྩ་དོན་དང་འབྲེལ་བ་ཆགས་ནས་རང་བཙན་བསྒྲུབས་དང་མ་བསྒྲུབས། འདིའི་ཆ་ནས་༸སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། ཡང་དེང་རབས་ཀྱི་གནས་ཚུལ་ལ་བསྙད་ནས་མང་གཙོའི་ལམ་སྲོལ་ཆ་ཚང་གཅིག་བེད་སྤྱོད་གཏང་དགོས་པ་འབྱུང་ན། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་རྩིས་མེད་བྱེད་དགོས་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པའི་བཟོ་འདྲ་བོ། དེ་འདྲའི་གནས་ཚུལ་གྱི་ཐོག་ནས་༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་མཛད་པ་འཕྲིན་ལས་ཁ་ཤས་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན། འདི་ཚོ་རྒྱ་མི་གུང་ཁྲན་དང་དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་པ་ཚོ་ལས། ཏོག་ཙམ་ཞིག་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་ཡོད་རེད་བསམ་གྱི་ཡོད།
བཀའ་བློན་ཁྲི་བ་ཞིག་གིས་མང་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་མདུན་དུ་ ་་་འདི་ཚོ་རྒྱ་མི་གུང་ཁྲན་དང་དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་པ་ཚོ་ལས། ཏོག་ཙམ་ཞིག་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་ཡོད་རེད་བསམ་གྱི་ཡོད། ་་་་་ སྐད་ཆ་འདི་འདྲ་བཤད་ན་འགྲིག་མི་འདུག་ཟེར་བ་རེད། ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་འདིའི་ནང་དུ་སྐྱོན་ཟིག་མི་མཐོང་བ་ཡ་མཚན། ཡང་ན་ཁྱེད་ཅག་གིས་ཨུ་ཚུགས་མཐའ་སྐྱེལ་གྱི་འདུག ཡང་ན་འདི་སེསམ་ཁམས་ཀྱི་གནད་དོན་ཆེན་པོ་ཞིག་ཏུ་གྱུར་ནས་གཅིག་གིས་གནད་ཅན་དུ་མཐོང་བ་གཞན་གྱིས་ཡེ་ནས་རྟོགས་མི་ཐུབ་པ་ཞིག་ཡིན་འདུག
ཟམ་གདོང་རིན་པོ་ཆེས་ལོ་རྒན་པ་རྣམས་རྨོངས་སུ་འཇུག་གི་འདུག ཁོང་གིས་བོད་ཀྱི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཁག་བགོས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་ན་དེ་ནི་གཞོན་སྐྱེས་ཚོ་མིན་པར་ལོ་ཚན་རྒན་པ་ཚོ་རེད།
TC Lejotsang,
Good shot!
Lets Talk about Samdhong’s failure so far as kalon Tripa:
First thing he did as a Katri was to privatize Tibetan Govt.’s various business. He did that with lies as he said, there is nothing to look for in these business but a big whole. Surprisingly he did that without any bill or law that authorizes the right to privatize. This is unconstitutional and detrimental to our young democracy.
Second, he demoralized the Tibetan civil servant by consolidating all of their powers and authority (restricting spending authority to rs. 500). Imagine, if Reprsentative of Tezu wants to invite their district police chief or any other officer, he should call the Kashag to authorise that amount over 500 rupees. If it is a rainy season, forget about it. No phone lines and letter to dharamsala will take 3 months. Consequently, people felt that it is better not to work than suffer humiliation.
consequently, tibetan govt is going bankrupt. Do you guys know that Samdhong had sent Paljor staff to ask for donation from Ludhianna Lalas. When i went there, the lalas were traumatised by those staff. The staff took the tibetan sweater seller leaders and ask for rs. 50,000 from each lalas ( a kind of black mail).
Third, He ordered the Tibetan civil servant not to attend TYC function which i can understand.
Fourth, he proved himself that he was a paper Tiger. He advised all tibetan not to Protest Jaing Zemin during his last visit, as President, to the US in order to create conducive atmosphere for the Sino-tibetan dialogue. He was suppose to do something… if that good gesture was not reciprocate favorably.. Nothing!!!!!
In between such misirable performance, he introduced Organic farming in Kollegal and people say it is disastrous. He also established Pedon Lobdra (model school)- everything is in Tibetan. I can say this is a failure. When all those Varanasi graduates had hard time getting job or to have meaningful life, how can those kids expect a better one.
There is virtually nothing as his accomplishment. The state of sino-Tibetan dialogue is in same place if not in worse.
He leaderships resembles Mao during cultural revolution; asking for opinions and then target them for being progressive or something that goes against his.
He is also like G. Bush: religious right wing, is dogmatic, divisive, stubborn. In some sense Samdhong is worst that Bush. Samdhong being a monk with all those vows can lie with his poker face.
He have been told that there is fate/destiny which in this age revolves around ones finger. Indeed, that must be true. Samdhong has Parkinson’s disease. Look carefully, if you happen to see his hand, his hand shakes so badly.
Poor guy. I am sorry. This s your fate.
KP
Lets talk about his failure, guys.
KP
I wish Jamyang-la, who I admire a lot, had made a better shot, at least this last time when Samdong Rinpoche is on his way out. Jamyang-la’s critique so far had been very constructive, be it against HH, SR or Tibetans in general. But this time, it reflected his lack of grasp in Tibetan language, one reason that contributed to his bagging of accolades for his internationally -renowned English novels.
Samdhong Rinpoche’s remarks concerns the leadership of His Holiness, and to what extent HH enjoys the mandate of Tibetan people. Samdhong Rinpoche cautions us not to give ourselves away to unrestrained exercise of democratic freedom that could spell disastrous for position and institution of HH the Dalai Lama, which enjoys 90% of Tibetans mandate, despite opposition from a small chunk of the Tibetan society.
SR meant that “defiance of HH’s wishes regarding Shugden is just a sectarian issue, while defiance of HH’s wishes on state policy is leadership/national issue.”
If you say SR is just sweet-talking HH, maybe true. But if you say SR is denouncing Rangzen youth, it’d be an utter falsity. Because his talk in Tibetan nowhere says so.
People like KP, are sick to raise issues like SR suffering from Parkinson’s disease. I am hundred percent sure that he is either a weedling of a corrupt CTA employee or victim of Chushi Gangdruk, as his writings stinks of nothing more that personal vengeance. His talks on organic farming and Ludhiana only works in web-chats.
Lha Gyal-lo
Ngailha Dhondup
Ngaila Dhondup la (# 116,)
Could you explain what you mean by saying someone is “a victim of Chushi Gangdruk,” as this is confusing to me? Thank you.
འཇམ་དཔལ་ལགས། བཀྲ་ཤིས་བདེ་ལེགས།་
ངས་གང་ཤོད་ཀྱི་ཟེར་བ་ཡིན་ན། རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་བཀའ་སློབ་ཀྱི་ནང་གཞོན་ནུ་དང་རང་བཙན་རྩོད་ཚོ་སྡུག་པའམ་ཡང་ན་རྒྱ་མི་གུང་བྲན་ལས་སྡུག་པ་
རེད་ཞུས་ཀྱི་ཡོད་མ་རེད། ཁོང་གི་གསུངས་འདོད་པ་ནི། དེང་གི་ཆར་ང་རང་ཚོའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ནང་༸གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་སྐུ་དྲིན་རྣམས་རྦད་དེ་བརྗེད་ནས་ཁོང་ལ་མཚན་སྨད་དང་བསྐུར་འདེབས་བྱེད་མཁན་མང་དུ་འགྲོ་གི་ཡོད་པ་གསུང་གི་ཡོད་པ་ལས། རང་བཙན་རྩོད་མཁན་རྣམས་རྒྱ་མི་གུང་བྲན་དང་དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་པ་ལས་ཏོག་ཙམ་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་རེད་ཅེས་གསུངས་ཡོད། བཤད་མཁན་གྱི་ངོས་ནས་སྐུལ་སློང་གང་ཡང་མེད་ཀྱང། ཉན་མཁན་གྱི་གནས་ཚད་དམའ་བའམ་སྐྱོ་བས་རྐྱེན་གྱི་ཡིན་གྱི་རེད་དྲན་གྱིས། མ་གཞི་དེ་ཚོ་ང་རང་ཚོའི་མི་མངས་རྣམས་ལ་བཤད་དགོས་པ་ཞིག་ལས། སྦས་བསྐུང་བྱས་ནས་བཞག་མི་རུང།
གནས་སྟངས་དེ་ནི་ངོ་མ་རེད། ལ་ལས་ད་ལྟ་རང་ཉིད་གང་འདྲ་ཞིག་ཆགས་ཡོད་པ་རྣམས་རྦད་དེ་བརྗེད་ནས། ༸རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་དང་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་གཞུང་ལ་ཁ་བཏང་ནས་སྡོད་པ་ལས། སོ་སོ་རང་ཉིད་ནི་རང་འདོད་ཁོ་ནར་བསམ་ནས་ཕྱི་རྒྱལ་དུ་མིའི་གཡོག་པོ་རྒྱུག་བཞིན་བསྡད་ཡོད།
དེ་ཡང་ཇི་སྐད་དུ།
གཞན་ལ་བལྟ་བའི་མིག་ཡོད་ན།
རང་ལ་བལྟ་བའི་མེ་ལོང་དགོས།་ཞེས་གསུངས་པ་བཞིན། སོ་སོའི་གནས་སྟངས་དང་འཇོན་སྟངས་ལ་དཔག་པའི་གཞན་ལ་སྐྱོན་བརྗོད་བྱེད་དགོས་པ་ཡིན།
I realize that in the safety of my thirty years of Canadian life people like myself could escape the mob attacks for being critical towards Dharamsala.
There lies the problem…those that cannot accept a person’s right to their opinion are the the ‘dangerous’ Tibetans.
Jamyang Norbu has again stuck his neck wide out and it’s our responsibility to support his right to his opinion and commend him for having the courage to do so in an open manner that is so rare but much needed for us Tibetans.
Choni la,
Here is what phayul.com says Norbu Sampell, the writer of the article is NOT the journalist working for Voice of America’s Tibetan service.
You say in Comment #99 “It is so clear that Norbu Sampell is defending Samdhoung Lama just because he was student of Samdhoung Lama. Samdhoung Lama to those from Varanasi is Lord of God but such partiality is not fair to turn the black hat on Jamyang Norbu described as rabble-rouser.”
How do you know Norbu Sampell was a student of Samdhong and was from Varanasi?
Let me borrow your words here to say that your ‘rebuttal’ was “laughable, baseless and dishonest”.
You were in the hall when Katri delivered above speech. Tell me honestly that you didn’t applaud this speech? As I recall, I was standing in the back of the crowd in the hall when he gave this speech. I saw everybody (as I saw) was applauding at the end of this speech. Maybe for you guys, the majority of Tibetans (particularly in that hall) were dumb, unintelligent, uneducated, brainwashed and ‘sheep in the flock’.
http://www.tibetonline.tv/videos/231/katri-concluding-talk-at-new-york
Watch the video. I don’t care if one or two Tibetans were not happy with what he said in the speech.
Watch this speech in its entirety. Pay special attention for few minutes from 26 minute timeline on this video.
I think you are talking to yourself here or I am not understanding what you are saying here. A quote from your comment. “His(His Holiness) not afraid of Communist China, he is not afraid of evil practitioners but he fears people whole heartedly follow HH and at same time take deferent approach to fight for our freedom.”
“Given the current mass mentality of and atmosphere within the TGIE, there is not much that can be done about it, unfortunately” from comment #112.
This is the typical attitude of self-proclaimed rangzen advocate who only knows to poke fun at people who are on the ground doing what they can do for the cause of Tibet.
Typical people like this who seems to have no substances of either our traditional values or modern education of any types are lunging at our identities much like the Red guards in the 60s in the heat of the Cultural Revolution. These “bedbugs” are more dangerous than outside enemies.
Arihant
Don’t be ugly puppy for Samdhoung Lama to lick his ass and criticize our brothers and sisters (Rangzen fighters) call them “bedbugs”. So far I see you are the only one acting like “bedbug” bit here and there.
I really don’t understand why you hate so much people working for our ultimate freedom (Rangzen) rather support them.
If you are not bland then you should see when first time Norbu Sampell’s article posted on Phayul.com. It was so clearly mentioned at the bottom of his article that author is work as a journalist for VOA Tibetan session. That was why I thought he was the one. Someone from New York told me that Norbu Sampell work for VOA was from Varanasi that is how I linked up teacher and student relationship with my intelligence. What about that….ah ha.
I am here not fight with you but I really want to tell you don’t be like a mad dog bit our brothers and sisters ( Rangzen fighters) they have their own thought and view to fight for cause of Tibet. If don’t want to involve or support then that is totally fine, because we all know where you are standing but don’t don’t don’t be a bedbug to spread bloody poison to hurt new generation’s growth no matter what you believe in.
As I always saying I am a believer His Holiness middle path but I will never exaggerate middle path is the ultimate means to gain our country back, it is just another method. Thus I believe Rangzen is also another means to fight our total freedom therefore don’t criticize innocent true fighters. As you said bedbugs like you kinda of dangrous to our future freesom fighters.
Finally my deepest apology to Norbu Sampell who works in VOA Tibetan session. I didn’t know until I saw Phayul’s correction and apology.
I would like to answer Jamiang Norbu’s question and comment on some of the comments on his article on Phayul. First of all, thank very much, Jamiang Norbu La, for pointing out what is really wrong with TGIE democracy. What Samdong is trying to do is to divide and rule. Since Samdong became a speaker of the Parliament, he divided Chushi Gangdrug in 2 pieces. When he became Kalon Tripa,he divided Gelugpa in two pieces and invented Shugden issue. Before 1996 there was no Shugden issue and Shugden people were very patriotic as most of the Tibetans were. In his speeches he made very divisive statements followed by comments that he always expressed his Holiness’s will. To me Dalai Lama is expressing Samdong’s wish rather than Samdong is making Dalai Lama’s wish. Why does Dalai Lama suddenly react to an innocent question from a member of Youth Congress is very strange. We must look at the answer and blame somebody or somewhere else. Many years ago we could blame Taiwanese or Choka Chuksum, or Alo Chonzi. Or Kudhas. But now maybe we can blame Shugden or people who practice Shugden. I can’t see anything alse to blame, except Shugden. Dalai Lama must be possessed by Shugden or a Chinese ghost.
To Tseta from Canada:
You and your venerable Samdong lama are still under the sea. Haven’t discovered world wave of democracy yet. Here there is some information. World War II is over. Since Tibetans lost their independence, many countries became independent and democratic: from East Europe to East Timur. World War II was started by faschists and Imperial Japan. But before the world was run by theocracies, this period was called “dark age” and it was much worse. Do you know that? By the way, I undestand that you are educated by TGIE, and paid for. What are you doing in Canada? Are you guarding miidle way from Canadian independent activists and genuine democrats?
To Tennorphel:
Tibetan history has more than 2137 years. Dalai Lama is only 76. Are you saying nobody knew Tibet 76 years ago? Perhaps you ask your god again.
To Damus from Bylakope:
What will be helpful for you if Jamiang writes something else? Do you think if Jamiang wrote and said Dalai Lama is a holy person, then he is super human, he is god, and Shugden is bad, Taiwan is bad, Rangzen is bad idea? Middle Way is good, China is bad, but we want to live under China for ever, under the chinese constitution? Does this help Tibetan cause?
To Trachin:
Well said, sir, but don’t get discouraged, it should not take 2 generations for the people to wake up. People already know Jamiang is patriot and contributes to the Tibetan cause. It is already starting. Remember Jamiang’s good work.
To MilaRangzen:
I pray with you!
Choni la,
Learn to write truthfully so that people will understand you. Much of what you wrote was based on street gossips.
Do you always need to strike some emotional cords to stop the debate? Stop writing shit on emotional notes to try to make others feel bad. It won’t work for me.
You don’t have a problem when this self-proclaimed rangzen adcocate looks down upon most people in the TGIE by saying “Given the current mass mentality of and atmosphere within the TGIE, there is not much that can be done about it, unfortunately”.
Do you know what was “mass mentality” referred to? It’s unfortunate for Tsering Choedon Lejotsang that her mentality is different from the mass mentality of Tibetans working in the exile government, not the other way around.
I am not here to fight with anybody. I am here to express my opinions related to Jamnor’s article. I am restraining myself from making comments unrelated to the article and comments on it. I am just pointing out invalidating faults and flaws in the article and comments.
Samdhong isn’t throwing Umelam against Rangzen. That’s what some with vested interest want you to believe.
Don’t read my comments with preconceived notions that I am attacking rangzen advocates.
Apologizing Norbu Samphell was the point. The point was that your biased attitude and false preconceived notion made you to connect Samdhong and Varanasi students simply from the name you saw on the article not the substances of the article. This is probably how you come up with many your “logics”.
Jamyang Norbu La,
I have a lot of respect for you in terms of your achievements in terms of analysis of our Tibetan Government in Exile.
In this article, I agree with you completely that Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche had no right to say what he did eventhough, he had said it such a way so that it seems as if he is not saying that Rangzen activists are like Shugden followers but it is implied which I agree with.
At the same time, trying to beat up the person who asked this question is stupid and does show our immaturity.
But at the same time, your statement “So why this very unusual reaction on the part of His Holiness now?” is very disturbing to me. First of all, the question was asked by quoting just that Prof Samdhong Rinpoche said, “Rangzen Activists are worse than Shugde followers and the chinese” but not the context on which it was said.
And secondly, it was not His Holinesses statement. It was made by our Kalon Tripa and should be directed to him and not to HHDL.
If our democracy is in such a state that, any comment made by any representative has to be followed through with a comment by His Holiness, what is the use of Democracy?
And thirdly, I am not sure why HHDL got angry but he has every right to be if he thought the time and place was wrong for such a question. Are you saying that he has no right to that. So, everyone of us has the right to share our thoughts but he doesn’t.
Personally, I think article which should have come out when Samdhong Rinpoche La made this statement. But, why did it only come out when HHDL got angry at this question?
It leaves a lot to be answered.
Give it up Arihant,
The time for people like you and Samdhong are over. People have woken up. Thanks to modern education, science, technology, secular politics and the internet people are re-descovering their inquisitive nature that have been suppressed for so long by faith. They can no longer be sold what people like you and Samdhong have been selling for centuries.
“mass mentality” = “mob mentality” which Samdhong tried to exploit with his speech. Fortunately, there are no buyers.
KP rightly points out that Samdhong Rinpoche’s “performance was pathetic filled with same kind of lies, nepotism, desolution and just big talk.” One example is his appointment of new HHDL representatives in UK and Switzerland. Many people speak of how they were suddenly dropped or rehabilitated after singing to his tune. This old mentality of hanging onto to someone’s tail (pungee in Hindi/Sanskrit) is pathetic and God knows where Tibetan movement or cause is now heading…
Hey nyela Dhondup,
I was a friend of Samdhong’s PA and his son (surprise) and i know he has this disease for sure. The side effects of Parkinson’s drug sometimes make him go nuts on others.
Well! Like Samdhong, I owe no opologies or explanations to anybody.
Next time you see him, check his hand carefully. Although, his hand is mostly under his robe. It is most obivious when he drinks tea.
If you still don’t believe me, ask arihant.
KP
Hi Arihant
Are you sure you wrote truthfully? It is so laughable that you even warning to me “Learn to write truthfully”. I am always truthful and I will be truthful for ever don’t worry about me. Put your hands on your chest look up the ceiling and rethink what you have been writing. Are those assuasive words you put on Rangzen fighters are truthfully?. You have deliberately and intentionally been criticizing people take chance to practice democratic freedom. Do you think that is truthful? Every single comments you made are divisive, unthinkable and dishonest even exaggerated with your bulling assault attack to true fighter are truthful? What’s the hell world corner shadow are you living in? You need to wake up and be the man if you wanted to be a ‘truthful’ as you were talking about in your comment.
As you wrote “I am just pointing out invalidating faults and flaws in the article and comments.” How do you know those are fault article and comments? There are so many people support those articles and comments. Pretty much you are the only one bedbug among so many of us. Think about that your “street gossips” and listen to what other majority is saying.
You also said that “Samdhong isn’t throwing Umelam against Rangzen.” I think you are so confused right now. You are merely attack Rangzen fighter is because you wanted to support Samdhoug’s bulling on Rangzen that was you wrote pretty much all your comments. Now you are contradicting yourself. Now we know that you were in unconscious when you wrote all those comments. That is why pretty much everyone here found where your invalid logic attack explored.
FreeTibet
Hello people,
As a nation the single biggest threat we are facing today is the ideological conflict growing in our society.
It is perfectly acceptble to have different political ideologies among ourselves. But if it is driven by EXTREMISM, it will cause more problems. And we common people, especially those living in Tibet, India, Nepal, Bhutan, are the ones who will suffer most.
My personal impression here is that many of you, including Mr Jamyang lak, is promoting ideological extremism. That is not right. That is what I am against for. And that’s what we should fear.
Look at Korea. Because of ideological extremism, they fought bloody wars and eventually become puppets of other nations.
Unity in diversity. That is what we need to strive as a democratic nation.
SAY NO TO EXTREMISM!!!
I want to see Samdhong Rinpoche and Jamyang Norbu talk face to face openly.
Because we need to talk now………
leave our pm alone. Jamyang is too minor a person to share dais with our nation’s pm. What’s his qualification anyways… Besides paraphrasing news reports and gathering unconfirmed reports from the so called ‘a friend of mind’. If jn got the guts, let him face the missile – horstang jigmey. This guy wrote a daming article on jn in bhoki dhubab (tibet times) in early 2000s that really gave fatwa of sorts to jn…
དབུ་མའི་ལམ་ལགས།
གཏམ་ལ་བཟོ་བཅོས་བྱས་པས་ཅང་མི་ཕན། དགྲ་རྒྱ་མི་ལས་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་ཡོད་ན་ཉེན་ཁ་དེ་སུ་ལ་ཆེ་བ་རེད་ཟེར་གྱི་ཡོད། དེ་བོད་ལ་ཆེ་བ་རེད་ཟེར་བ་མ་གཏོགས་འགྲོ་ས་ཡོད་མདོག་མི་ཆེ། གལ་སྲིད་བོད་ལ་ཉེན་ཁ་ཆེ་བ་ཡིན་ན་དེ་ལ་སྡུག་པར་གོ་བ་མི་ལེན་ན་བཟང་བར་གོ་བ་ལེན་ནམ།
ལར་ནས་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་གི་སྐུ་དྲིན་བརྗེད་མཁན་བོད་མི་གཅིག་ཀྱང་ཡོད་ཀྱི་མ་རེད། དེ་ཚོ་ཁྱེད་ཚོས་བཀལ་བའི་མ་ཉེས་ཁ་གཡོག་རེད། ངས་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་ལ་རྒྱབ་སྐྱོར་བྱས་རུང་འུ་ཐུག་ཐབས་ཟད་ནས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་ཅིང་། ཁྱེད་ཚོས་བོད་ཀྱི་རང་དབང་ལ་མི་བསམ་པར་དགའ་བཞིན་རྒྱབ་སྐྱོར་བྱེད་པ་འདི་ཐ་ཤལ་རེད་སྙམ།
མིང་འདོད་མི་ཕོད་པའི་དབུ་ལམ་ལགས།
ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་བོད་ཡིག་གིས་ཟིན་བྲིས་བསམ་ཚུལ་བརྗོད་ཁུལ་གྱིས་བོད་ཡིག་ཤེས་མདོག་སྟོན་ངས་ཀྱང་བོད་ཡིག་འགྲིག་ཙམ་ཤེས་ཀྱི་ཡོད། ཁྱེད་ཀྱི་དྲི་གང་བཏབ་ལ་ལན་ཤེས་ཙམ་ཡོད། རྒྱུ་མཚན་ནི་ངས་རྒྱབ་སྐྱོར་བྱེད་ཡུལ་དེ་རང་བཙན་ཡིན་པས་ཡིན།
If you are more comfortable with English, please do comement in English on this article and I will challange every single word.
@TD: So, is asking for freedom for one’s country and democracy in exile extreme to you? Last time I checked, that is the basis of a civilized nation and any nation that has got any sense of identity and pride in their history, culture, and old fashioned truth. Only Tibetan who got their balls removed or who got no sense of shame or dignity or who don’t possess an intelligent mind of their own (or all of the above) speak like that.
Jamphel: You have no idea what you are talking about. Jamyang Norbu has contributed much to the Tibetan struggle and has worked in various capacity for our cause. Maybe even more than Samdhong Rinpoche. But if you are going by that logic, then who are you to question JN questioning Samdhong Rinpoche? Lets hear your credentials first as we have to match it with JN’s first and determine whether you are qualified to talk about him. See where this flawed logic ends up?
Jamyang la, would provide me the surporting facts or the actuall events of the following of your words? that… “the Tibet issue is the internal affair of the PRC“, or that President Obama should not irritate China’s leaders, or that the Chinese high-speed railway would benefit the Tibetan people, or (to The New York Times) that Tibetan political freedom (“separation from China”) was not as important as the spiritual welfare of the Chinese people.
TD, Organize the face to face talk between Samdhong Rinpoche and Khewang Jamyang Norbu la. Until then shut the fuck up!
Insecurity leads to intimidation and offence.
This will be countered with defence and offence. Such is or should be the ‘warp and woof’ of modern politics.
But but for our brethern in Tibet; their voices are choked and muffled daily by the regime that has taken over our homeland.
Nobody elected in a public office in ‘free society’ can request unaccountability for a public action or speech.
This debate is regarding the ‘whys’ and ‘hows’ of one such event.
All else is ‘dancing around the issue’.
Jampel, I am so surprised that you still haven’t heard Samdong Rinpoche and Dalai Lama saying that “the Tibet issue is the internal affair of the PRC“, or that the Chinese high-speed railway would benefit the Tibetan people. They were repeatedly saying that. Jamiang put all the facts in his article. If you cannot accept Jamiang’s words you will have to do your own research. Don’t ask Jamiang to buy New York Times and send it to you, do your own research and read the newspaper carefully. Dalai Lama and Samdong are not fighting for Middle Path, they are just begging Chinese. That is why they are trying to please China so much and dividing Tibet is part of their pleasing China. Divide and rule and offer to China.
Hi Jampel Lak,
Tashi Delek and Greetings from Dharmshala……
I just want to make clear that I am not against Rangzen as I was a member of TYC before. I am also not correcting what S. Rinpoche was said in that video clip. He actually not meant for TYC and Rangzen activist but those who are criticizing and insultin His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Even we are agree with genuine autonomy or Rangzen, we all should respect whole heartedly to His Holiness as he is like a father of our nation.
S. Rinpoche is worrying that some Tibetan people(who are criticizing to H.H) are forgetting the kindness and care of His Holiness. If the no. of people who are criticizing to H.H will increase continuously then scared commitment (དམ་ཚིག་) between His Holiness and Tibetan people will deteriorate which may cause for sooner expiring of His Holiness.
That’s the only worry of S.Rinpoche and Tibetan Govt. in Exile.
With best wishes
Dhonling Bhu
Tenpa D. Gapshi,
#135
Please peruse my comment first.
Tsering,
#137
I am not going to shut up eventhough i cannot organise such talk.
Wow…it was educative indeed and thank you all for every penny of word.
Jamyang la, since your very citation grounds the remark clicked by SR, let me also do the inception of my reply as a practice of the very recent clearance made by the SR himself. “TGiE hasn’t mortgaged the right to expression to some people.” SR made it heard by all during the 1st GM this year and here I pose as a simple awakening justification.
I am not amongst the religious-right yahoos that you had endorsed disturbingly in your dangerous liaison but rather, I am amongst the middle pathers of this debate who felt so poor and sympathizes the oppositions who went hurt in no reason reasoning enough for oops.
Jamyang la, your attack on SR is no new and this time also, your moral obligation in understanding the reality saddened my perception of your persona. Your writings on the guerrillas and the dipping of donkey’s ear in butter tea was unquestionable delight for the society and I thank you for those endeavors but this time, I am sorry to stand on the other side.
I can’t shy that I am angry to what SR said. I am not angry for his so-termed-serious statement but rather for the high-level of Tibetan he had chosen for my ཕྱི་སྡོད་བོད་མི་. With the help of my research team, I got my meaning but I can’t openly oppose the criticism messed on SR. Dear Rangzen brothers, SR never meant to pollute our spirits and there are many of his speeches that points this direction. The level of tie he has helped the NGO knot with TGiE is a unique space in our exile arena. This speech of SR is meant for the Ra-ma-lug who is attempting to take every opportunity to unturned stones and make our struggle messier.
I think when he made this speech, he must have felt that the Rangzen brothers will understand the real meaning of his words but sadly, misinterpretations with the distorted perceptions came flowering outside the garden.
So dear Tibetans, lets get over it!
Jamyang la, your English enjoys a big-fanfare, so please be careful with your words!
‘pregnant with possibilities’ a line delivered by John Noble in the series ‘Fringe’ rings so true to the future of Tibet.
It’s been 54 years since the Khampa’s waged war against the Red Army and today many from the same areas continue to fight…the lucky ones are killed and others face years of torture.
Most of us in exile are happy to follow the ‘Middle Path’ as it does not force us to do much,it’s an easy life …a struggle without sacrifice.
Walter’s line delivered by John Noble gives me hope that if we fight the good fight…then our future is ‘pregnant with possibilities’.
Respected Jamyang norbu la.
Thanks for your article. but i just want to tell you that it is not good to use the word shukden practitioners for the Tibetan word Shukden Jedrang, better to use Shukden followers.
here, i want to translate this article in Tibetan, hope you will give me permission.
thanks,
Hi, Middle Way Path,
Who on the earth is criticising HH. execpt the enemy and Shugden cliques?
No body is forgetting the kindness of HH for granting Democracy gracefull leadership in Tibetan society. Yes, there are views other than that of HH’s, that does not mean those who holds different view is against HH. I think S. Rinpoche while holding this post, to say such is totally wrong. Yes, if he were a freeman, he can say any thing and actually he should say if he feels it is important to warn the public, that is his duty as a highly achieved scholar.
Dear Shigatse boy,
why do you or SR for that matter is needed to interpret Tibetan language to Tibetan people?
There is no doubt he did say so, or atleast the words he, as a great scholar, used have the conotation we are worried to have. If he meant the opportunist, why did he not give a single hint? and if he has sympathy for Rangzen advocates, why did he not feel that if say in that way, Rangzen advocates may may feel the other way?
ད་དེ་རིང་སང་ཉིན་བོད་ཀྱི་རྩ་དོན་དང་འབྲེལ་བ་ཆགས་ནས་རང་བཙན་བསྒྲུབ་དང་མ་བསྒྲུབ་འདིའི་ཆ་ནས་༸སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་ཟུར་ཟ་དང་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན།
འདིར་གཟིགས་དང་རང་བཙན་བསྒྲུབ་པར་འདོད་མཁན་ཚོ་༧སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ལ་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་མཁན་དུ་ཆ་བཞག་པ་རེད། རང་བཙན་སྒྲུབ་པར་མི་འདོད་མཁན་ཚོ་དེའི་ལྡོག་ཕྱོགས་ཡིན། རྩ་དོན་དང་འབྲེལ་བའི་རང་བཙན་མི་སྒྲུབ་མཁན་གྱིས་༧སྐྱབས་མགོན་རིན་པོ་ཆེར་མཚན་སྨད་ཞུ་དོན་གང་ཡོད། དོན་དེ་འདྲ་ཞིག་ལས་གཞན་གང་གོ་བ་ལེན་དགོས།
Although your article might have been quite an interesting read for some, I have found this highly vindictive, disrespectful as well as misinterpreted. Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche’s only fault I see, if any fault at all was that of being overly protective of His Holiness. All the rest you have accused him of have been highly fabricated and altered to fit your biased judgement. To disrespect one of Tibet’s most prominent and influential leaders is something you should be ashamed of. Mr. Jamyang Norbu, you are a proclaimed radical yet have not achieved anything substantial on a political or international platform to benefit your country. In that sense, you prove yourself to be an ignorant being who sits behind a computer screen all day, conjuring up new falsities to mislead the mass. What you have accomplished with this post is scrutinizing Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche’s words and misusing them to fit nicely into this over exaggerated piece you have composed. To help evolve Tibet into a progressing nation is not an easy task, but to point fingers and critique someone is a task we can all do with as much malice and zest as you have done so with this biased piece of work.
I also read in one of the comments listed above, that someone had claimed Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche suffers from Parkinson’s Disease. This statement is absurd as well as completely false because I know Rinpoche as much as any of you do, if not more.
Also, regarding the comments stating an apology from Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche is necessary, is very outrageous. Fifty one years ago, when our parents fled Tibet with hardly anything, and migrated to India, the culprits who handed over Tibet to Mao’s China never offered well deserved apologies to the six million Tibetans.
Is this Jamyang Norbu’s publicity stunt? It seems so. He has nothing new to say against Chinese invaders except criticizing middle path. Ranzen guys need to think deeply about their cause and pursue it. In reality, if we go by real ideology, then there are only few people in Tibetan Settlement who are blindly pursue Rangzen!! I respect Rangzen fighters if they focus on their Ranzen cause and less on criticizing Tibetan Govt in Exile. I am not Tibetan Government official…
This talk of Democracy “given” to Tibetans buy HH Dalai Lama is interesting. The only effective way to attain a Democracy which really serves the people is a Democracy which is taken. Democracy which is handed to those who have absolutely no experience with Democracy will never understand it. You must take it and demand it.
Rick
Can you imagine leaders like the late Arthur Griffith or Mahmud Abbas ever making provocative statements such as our Kalon Tripa.
If so….what would have been their fate?
And if you believe that Jamyang Norbu has misinterpreted Samdhong Rinpoche comment’s why can’t you point them out…instead of playing the same card you accuse JN ..of being ‘vindictive’.
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=CTA's+clarification+on+Kalon+Tripa's+comments+in+New+York+in+May&id=28221
China’s plots to “split” Tibetans living abroad are:
(1). Special focus should be given on strengthening our contact with the 2nd and 3rd generation Tibetans who have been brought up abroad and bringing them closer to the Mainland;
(2),Strengthening our contact with those individual Tibetans or groups who have conflict with the Dalai’s administration, despite their ill feeling against us, and make an effort to turn them into our valuable tools;
(3),Efforts should be made to strengthen contact with those Tibetans who left Tibet in the 1980s;
(4), Support those Tibetans abroad who are close to the Motherland and who want to establish organizations and economic bases abroad and nurture bases to undermine the force of the Dalai clique;
(5), Connect and woo to our side those who are working close to the Dalai and are moderate in their views;
(6), Closely and timely monitor the activities of those who are ardent followers of the Dalai and maintaining die-hard splittist stand and try to exterminate them.
http://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/issue-rangzen-v-middle-path/hhdlistheantidote
I am glad TGIE release the whole video tape. Jamyand Norbu is still right…. He said it… man. And to read in between his lines… he said, “people should pay more attention to these” splitiist who Does Surtsa and Tsemed to HH the Dalai Lama.
Do We need Chinese to break us split us among Tibetan????? We have our Monkish PM who does that for China. Check who is speaking in the video. Jamyang la was just doing rebuttal.
Boe and Jamyang Norbu Gyalo
KP
Ten years – give or take a few months – of S Rinpoche’s tenure as the Katri has been a disaster. His autocratic style of running the executive branch of the TGIE, his self righteous attitude in not entertaining the views of others and his irascible behavior to those serving below him have brought so many people who voted for him not just once but twice to remorse and tears. Something peculiar should have possessed him to air such views. His views are just beyond the imagination of sane Tibetans. One and a quarter million Tibetans lost their lives for the cause of Rangzen. As a percentage of the total population of a nation that was subjected to genocidal policies, the Tibetan genocide of the fifties and sixties of the last century is second to none. The Armenian genocide during WWI, the Holocaust during WWII and the Tibetan genocide during the Cold War are still fresh in the memories of the world.
Senility may be an excuse for those who are blind in their faith in Rinpoche. If he is so, why not pave the way for someone else. There should be a provision for the election or appointment of the chief of the executive branch in mid-term. Rinpoche then could again write an Apology (Sothsol) to the Tibetan people like the one he did when he quit the chair of the Speaker of the then Assembly of Tibetan People’s Deputies. Because of his senility, if he is not in a position to write a Socratic/Platonic apology, Tibetans would not hanker for one.
It is a tragedy that Rinpoche could not live up to the expectations of people who voted for him, and it is a classic example of the incantation, Save Us From People of Good Intentions.
Though I strongly disagree with quite a few of KT Samdhong Rinpoche’s statements regarding Rangzen activists, and Tibet being an internal affair of China, I still respect him as our Kalon Tripa, and hope we as Tibetans give him that respect. Therefore, to some of the comments above, please let us not engage in irrelevant name calling, and instead give constructive criticism of Samdhong Rinpchoe’s actions/statements.
Jamyang Norbu la, thank you for your courage to speak your mind!
Jampel la,
thanks for giving worth to my words! By the way, never always comes everything in detail. There are lots of things that are taken for granted but if you fail to make the commentary for yourself, you are lacking something. Sorry if you find it much messed but this is how I felt about your reply.
It isn’t your fault either. Over the years in my research, i felt that to understand SR’s speech much clear, you need to have a taste of Tibetan Buddhism and currently over the the matter, its no doubt that the expressions used by SR is misinterpreted much solely on this ground. I got a question for you.
Did you ever tried to read SR between the lines and then also the speech as a whole without any influence from the translation JN has tried? Be honest!
Moreover, there isn’t any abusive portrayed against Rangzen activists in the speech if you be honest to yourself. You don’t have to take the matter personal and put on distorted perception on the mark..okay!
Beware of Jamyang Norbhu’s comments.
A good writer does not necesserily speak the truth.
I lost faith in Jamyang Norbhu after reading his comments about Lungshar in the Black Annals.
Let us not forget that we have more urgent matters to deal with than inciting internal fights.
The year 2008 could have been a turning moment for the Tibetan movement.
Some of our people in Tibet as they so often do seized the moment and created world attention to the plight of our lost country.
In exile watching videos of our own people being brutalized and often looking at the eyes of those arrested…knowing fully well their fate….mobilized many of us to do something.
We had fire in our FULL bellies finally!! There was emotion….and the Olympics were coming.
Then our Prime Minister once again in an interview referring to our youths said that he ” recognized the energy & fire” of younger,more radical exiles,but dismissed their expectations.
” They have all lived in a world of dreams” ” And they are driven by emotions”.
“If you talk about the long term Tibet issue,I am much hopeful” ” I never live in dreams,I live in reality,and in the present.”
What was our Prime Minister saying?
I am not bold enough to accuse our Prime Minister of his reasoning but a logical mind would assume that this was exactly what the “doctor” would have ordered.
Long live those who dream of a Free Tibet.
I don’t quite understand why many exiled Tibetans were so hopeful about 2008. If Darfur, a much less controversial topic, cannot gain traction, why do you think the Tibetan issue would?
If you can’t force the CCP’s hand back in 1987, you think you can force theirs in 2008 when China was in a much stronger position?
I understand the need for a dream, but dreams without substances are simply pipe dreams, and these are not conducive to your health.
To 142. I think you owe us a clear explanation. You mentioned that Samdong rinpoche’s speech is meant for Ra-ma-lug, I want to know who it is.
It’s clearly not a Shugden practitioners group. For me S.R.’s term is almost over. What we need to do is be careful whom we elect for the Kalon Tripa. I understand that many young people are inspired and hope for Lobsang Singe. Only because people trying to get free from three families. I think this might be a little bit shorsighted. We should vote for Kalon Tripa thinking about future of Tibet, not the past. To someone who is patriotic and experienced and educated with good motivation. We don’t have too much time for experiments. I see that Lobsang Singe lacks all the above. First, he came to USA with scholarship by Tibetan Government, after the graduation he was supposed to go back and work for Tibetan people. He did not do that. It shows he is not patriotic enough. Second, Kalon Tripa should be also a decent person. It does not show that he is a decent person. Now he wants to go back and be the boss. It shows his greediness for power without serving a day for his country. There is a story that Deng Shao Ping said to Wang Hung Wen: “You came by a helicopter while I walked through the staircase. One step at a time”. Look what Wang Hung Wen did and what happened to him, and what Deng Shao Ping did to China and what happened to him. The same thing is with Lobsang Singe. It is too dangerous for the Tibetans to put somebody like Lobsang Singe as a Kalon Tripa. We all should make a phone calla and try to make sure that the right person is going to be elected as Kalon Tripa. Here is the only person, to my mind, that possesses all the qualities to become a perfect Kalon tripa, this person is Tashi Wangdi. Below I bring citation from his election campaign:
“Kasur Tashi Wangdi la was born in Tibet and spent his childhood studying Tibetan. In exile, he had the opportunity to pursue his higher studies in England. He has very good knowledge of traditional as well as modern education.
He has served the Tibetan Government in exile for over forty years on various capacities and thus has a very sound knowledge of administration. He is very familiar with Tibetan polity.
During his long tenure as the Representative of His Holiness the Dalai Lama at Bureau Office in Delhi, the Office of Tibet in New York and Brussels, Kasur Tashi Wangdi la has gained tremendous experience and expertise in dealing with diplomats, head of states and people in governmental and non-government levels.
During the second general meeting of Tibetan Youth Congress in 1974, Kasur Tashi Wangdi la was elected as one of the executive members of the organization.
Kasur Tashi Wangdi la is man of very high personal integrity. He is humble and honest in nature. He is highly motivated and dedicated person who will leave no stones unturned in fulfilling the wishes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama”.
Devachen
You do a disservice to your choice of candidate Kasur Tashi Wangdi by attacking Dr.Lobsang Sangay’s patriotism,his integrity and his qualification of which you seem to no very little.
Kasur Tashi Wangdi surely would not want to be associated with your false or ignorant claims .
It is important that we pick the right Kalon Tripa.
Kasur Tashi Wangdi and Tenzing Tethong have served our Government for a long time and if you and others are satisfied with how our government has operated in the past and would want the same in the future …then it’s obvious that these two would be the logical candidates.
p.s check out the website below and you might want to reconsider some of your opinion towards Dr.Lobsang Sangay.
http://www.kalontripafortibet.org
Chinese Engineer,
You are right. If 1,000,000,000 Han Chinese can’t change CCP’s mind to respect their human rights and individual freedom, what can 6,000,000 Tibetans do.
Go and ask CCP to give your balls back.
@RICK # 148, You wrote:
“Also, regarding the comments stating an apology from Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche is necessary, is very outrageous. Fifty one years ago, when our parents fled Tibet with hardly anything, and migrated to India, the culprits who handed over Tibet to Mao’s China never offered well deserved apologies to the six million Tibetans.”
First of all, you need to get your thoughts straight. If by “The culprits who handed over Tibet to Mao’s China” you mean Ngabo and Baba Phuntsok Wangyal, then you should know that they have already been not only forgiven but also declared as Patriot by Samdhong and TGIE.
If Samdhong Rinpoche didn’t meant to hurt the feelings of Rangzen advocates and attempted to margnalise them (which I think is his real intent)then he should come out and offer a clear explanation of what he actually meant. And as he has already hurt the feelings of thousands of Rangzen lovers and created a artificial divide in our community by making such reckless statements, he should apologize for doing so.
Can he show to the Tibetan people that he really cares about our unity?
Nobody owes any apology to anyone. I once heard the story of a khazara achala saying:
Ame, Bhoed rangzen was offered on a tray to the chinese communists with the collective effort of all the Tibetans. By the time baba Phunwang and Ngabo appeared on the scene it was too late. They are mere scapegoats.
To Mr. Tsering Topgyal:
Your statement is very premature when you say that I don’t know a lot about Lobsang Singey. I know a lot about him. Do you know that when he studied in India, Delhi, he was supported by Litha Ata Norbu who gave him the opportunity to go to college. I know exactly how he got a scholarship to Harvard from TGIE. That is enough for your answer when you call me ignorant about Lobsang Singey. My previous message pointed out weakness of Lobsang Singey. Instead of calling somebody ignorant use your wisdom to prepare for answering questions. This question will come up during the next debate. The website you pointed me to shows that lobsang Singe was attending a few conferenced and meetings and giving a few speeches. Please, do not mix it with serving the nation – what he was supposed to do on completion his study in the U.S. Your argument about the future and the past of the country was pretty appealing. Good luck to Lobsang Singey…
Here is my response to CTA’s clarification on Kalon Tripa’s comments:
http://bit.ly/amX5ct
Devachen
First a great freedom fighter like the late Lithang Athar supporting Dr.Lobsang Sangay’s education if true is another reason for people to consider voting for Dr.Lobsang Sangay.
On the question of ‘serving the nation’ …your own choice of candidate Kasur Tashi Wangdi would be tickled pink by your lack of knowledge on what Dr.Lobsang Sangay has done/achieved in such a short time.
As for your last remark and your grand assult towards the integrity of Dr.Lobsang Sangay for not returning to serve ‘Dhasa’/’TGIE’….I point to you your own biased approach by choosing to ignore the clearly stated reasons for Dr.Lobsang Sangay not returning to ‘Dhasa’.
I have respect for your candidate Kasur Tashi Wangdi,but it is wrong to besmirch another candidate with half truths inorder to prop your own choice.
Kindly look at the website again and you will see very clearly the the waiver given by our ‘Department of Education’.
http://www.kalontripafortibet.org
To Tsering Topgyal:
Asking for a waiver from TGIE shows how selfish Dr. Lobsang Singey is. Receiving such a waiver shows how nepitism is rooted in the TGIE system. Your so called freedom-fighter Athar Norbu served as a stepping stone for Lobsang Singey. I can see that you are another stepping stone for Lobsang Singey. It shows that you have nothing to say about my candidate, Tashi Wangdue because he did not use anybody, he is not selfish and he is too patriotic and very knowledgible.
Devachen,
Are you Tashi wangdu himself? you seems to know more on him than an invidual would know that much of himself.
“no selfish,too patriotic,knowledgible”.
I am all for him in a diplomat role 101%.
Devachen
You are absolutely right! There is widespread nepotism in the ‘TGIE’ and we should all do something about it.
I would hope that all of us voting for the next Kalon Tripa select a candidate that is not part of the TGIE establishment. ( will this hurt your candidate’s chances as he is part of the establishment that you blast with ‘nepotism’)
As for your remark ‘so called freedom-fighter Athar Norbu’ !!!
Shame on you for not having an ounce of respect towards a freedom fighter.
It is through the courage of people like the late Andrug Gonpo Tashi and Litang Athar that our Kundun is amongst us FREE.
You do not have to agree with the politic’s of the late Lithang Athar but the least you could is offer your respect to a great freedom fighter.
To Thenorbu and Tsering Topgyal:
I am not Tashi Vangdu,
but I have done research before I chose the candidate for whom I would vote.
That is why I know about him, but I also investigated Lobsang Singey – he is too selfish and arrogant – never served a day for Tibetan people and now he wants to be the boss. I am sorry but i don’t think he is ready to run for the Kalon Tripa until he serves the country for 10 years. Perhaps you could do the research, too. You, Tsering Lopgyal, are supporting Lobsang Singey because you are Khampa, I can see that. But we should vote for what is good for the nation after all…
Everyone seems to have vested interests and wants one of their own to be a Kalon Tripa to meet that end. Words like nepotism, stepping stone, and springboard are what you expect to hear, based on which accusations are being hurled at the oppositions and public defamation is common. I guess even candidates know that it is a price they have to pay and are willing to go through it. But is it ever going to stop? After all it looks to me like the next Kalon Tripa will have his hands full catering to his supporters, people who will want to claim a piece of the victory, people who will say they went out of their way to campaign for him, and what not going as far as denigrating his oppositions. And that’s where it should stop if you have an tiniest iota of morality, hark my word tiniest iota, then stop digging up personal affairs/private matters.
Christophe,
Your response to TGIE’s insulting attempt at clarifying Samdhong’s statement is EXCELLENT! BRILLIANT!, Bravo!
May be TGIE just discovered this video but it has been around since Samdhong spit fire from his two-pronged tongue in May. One can watch it a thousand times and still find it hard not to be shocked by what he is saying. “more dangerous than the Communist Chinese”…
I wonder what gives him so much confidence and self assurance that he can say such things and think that there will be no repercussion. I think this sort of behavior shows a totalitarian mentality; and moreover, I would frankly say that ‘religious faith’ of the people, which is the cheapest and most abundant in the Tibetan psyche, is responsible for giving rise to this sort of person. It was as is if he is scolding his subjects, like back in the ‘old days’. Obviously, he doesn’t realize that people have moved ahead of him. Ah…let me stop here…
Some day I would like to shake your hand.
Does one need to hurl insults in order to get honest responses here? Please.. I am very interested in your support or no support for a democracy? Do you understand democracy? Does the Tibetan general population understand what is democracy? Democracy is not just anything other than Chinese rule. Go and read writings of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Henry Paine. You need to want democracy at any cost. You need to understand it so well that it is in your blood and there is no other choice. You must be willing to die. How many Tibetans want and understand democracy? It is not enough to want Freedom or Independence.
While you are reading also read the the Iroquois “Great Law of Peace” which was the template for the US constitution.
Devachen
Yes I am a Khampa but more importantly I am a proud Tibetan.
Yes Dr.Lobsang Sangay is a strong candidate ….but the real elections are still months away.
Where I have disagreed with your comments is your use of ‘cheap’ attacks to prop up your choice of candidate. NOTHING MORE the end.
“… but dreams without substances are simply pipe dreams, and these are not conducive to your health.”
Chinese Engineer, when Shanghai fell to Japan and people resisted the occupation, that was a pipe dream. In the 1930s when travelers would often be attacked by armed bandits, surviving was a pipe dream. Yet perhaps both you and I are on this earth today because of those pipe dreams. So you could say some pipe dreams are not only conducive to health, but to life itself.
On a related theme http://tibettruth.com/2010/10/06/tibetan-democracy-under-seige/
I I have never Samdhong Rinpoche and don’t know him personally so I don’t know what kind of person he is. I have heard both good things as well as bad things about him from different people. The point I am making here is that the fact I have problem with two things he says in the above video is not personal.
He says Tibetans who criticise HH on the question of Tibet’s independence are more dangerous than the Chinese or the Shugdenists.
I don’t know the Shugden business close up but as long as they don’t go around murdering people like those three Buddhist monks they are free to practise what they believe in as far as I am concerned.
But he is wrong to compare Rangzen advocates with the Chinese.
Infact it is a dangerous setback to Tibetan democracy when the Prime Minister accuses Tibetans of being more dangerous than the Chinese if they dare to criticise HH on the all important issue of Independence.
The Tibetans in Tibet give up their lives for right to self determination and not for the right to become panda cubs for Dharma bums.
And one thing I want to remind our democratically elected Prime Minister is that basic human rights like democracy are inherent human rights. Some people’s rights got taken away centuries ago. Some people like the Chinese are still deprived of it. They will become aware of it one day when the glittering new sky scrapers cease to enchant them.
Civil discussions are welcome but please refrain from calling fear mongering. Whatever station you are in.
Jamyang Lak,
Being another Jamyang is sometimes a privilege. Still remember how my first year professor made us read one of your articles, and lauding you for your prolificness and powerful expressiveness in your writings. It is safe to say that I have read almost all the writings you made public, always enjoyed the beautiful and poetic writings. Recounting the need for Rangzen through your personal lenses blended with your experience.
like any other Tibetan, I really appreciate your endeavor for the Tibetan struggle. But can’t agree with some of your very extreme opinions and through some of those I can clearly see banishing you from your TIPA post legitimate and rational..you have voiced strongly against the Tibetan Government, His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Samthong Rinpoche. May I ask you to sincerely question your motives behind it. DO you really believe that we have a slight chance of getting Rangzen from CHina? Or you just trying to be different from the rest since anyone who voice against Dalai Lama will be perceived differently.. IF its so, may I beg you not to use Tibetan struggle to promote your personal reputation…..
To shigatse boy at 158
You don’t need to worry about my honesity.
It is not the time and situation to read the lines instead of the actual words as he is holding the Prime Minister’s post. Don’t you think he should be careful what he should say and not. You said he thought the Rangzan advocates will understand, if it is so, it did not go. Whose fault is this at the end? I think I am gigger fan of SR than you. Things are to be viewed as it is.
It is interesting how;some people view seekers of Tibetan Independence as wanting to be different.If to follow one’s heart and believe in our past history,we find no reasons why we should accept any thing less than Tibetan Independence.If that’s being viewed as being different;it is wrong.Seeking Tibet’s Independence may be impossible by some,that does not mean those who believe in it should not dare to dream, to try and follow their true calling.
In the heart of hearts,every single Tibetan believes through history and documents on our country,that we were never a part of China.Then,how come to some it comes easy to forsake Tibet’s independence?I am asking to those who blindly follow the “Middle Way”simply because His Holiness said so.But you have all my respect if you follow the Middle Way because you read it and; understood it as well.
I have read it as much as you can possibily read it on web sites.And,I absolutely trust my life with His Holiness.But my problem is trusting China with Tibet’s future.Can we count on China to accept Autonomous of Tibet?
I truly admire one and all who takes active part in discussions like this.It does not matter how much or how little we know;rather,how involved are we in our own nation’s struggle.That is important.
As always,my special thank you to Jamyang Norbula for his willingness to take all the heat and the cold for giving his opinions on Tibetan politics.Tibet will always need likes of you.So stay right on,doing what you do best.That is writing.
Kalsang Phuntsok,
The majority of the Tibetan people will decide whether our current Katri (SR) needs apology or not. From my understanding of the speech, he don’t need any apology but instead you should apologize him for putting him in the wrong foot.
Even if we get our freedom back, if we continue to have this divisive thoughts, then it’s a lost cause all over again. Try to Bring some unity in action to have some real impact on the Chinese.
You all are so Pathetic. Being made so many bad statement on our KT. Must be “Gya-Me So-Wa” You guys need a Doctor.
You all are so Pathetic. Giving such a shamefull comment on our sincere KT. You guys are “Gya-Me So-Wa” You all need a Doctor(Dr. Tseten is best to make you all well)
KP, Kalsang Phuntsok,
You have every right to air your opinion but don’t try to create a group here by bringing down other person who are oppose to you. I am ashamed to see the manner of you people so called Rangzen advocates making a mockery of our elected Katri and having no manner in their writings. What is the use of having some education, holding liberal views but having no respect and shame.
R u forgetting the majority of the Tibetan people, who support Samdhong Rinpoche and their views.
It is always better to have opposing views in any manner than no opposition at all.
Every opposing views should be accepted with a smile and with a big heart, ’cause there lies an important lesson to learn from each opposing views.
The generation of “Tongue showing” and accepting everything that flows down without any degree to express opposition is i believe OVER.
THENORBU,
Your above comments do make a lot of sense but too many cook spoil the food. You must be aware of that too. If there is a genuine constructive suggestion with some logic behind their argument, then it’s of much use having this sort of forum.
Otherwise, if one goes on making a fun of our current Katri with some nonsense comments. I think it’s bit too much.
I agree PEMA T., But who are we to judge on someone’s comment as being logical or constructive or nonsense.
Every individual is different and has every right to be different.We should accept as they are, rather than try change them.
Pema T. and Samten,
The fact that there are elements within our community who are MORE DANGEROUS than the Shugden Practitioners and the COMMUNIST CHINESE, doesn’t make you panic and go on a frantic search to find these elements only tells me that you don’t believe that’s true. Then why did Samdhong Rinpoche said those words? Even if it is true then why does he have to lump in Rangzen believers and those who believe in true democracy into that group. Doesn’t he believe in true democracy?
All I have said in my comment is that he should give us a clear explanation of what he meant. And since his comments have already created a lot of hurt and misunderstanding, he should apologize for that.
Samten, you don’t have to be ashamed of anything I do. That’s nonsense. I am not ashamed of anything that I have written here. I am only exercising my freedom of speech. I will decide who I will respect and who I won’t, NOT YOU.
Kalsang Phuntsok,
Of course, as I mentioned earlier, you have the freedom of speech and that’s why you are writing back to me.
But what about your earlier comments, where you wrote Samdhong Rinpoche’s term as Katri is now coming to end and he should retire somewhere in the caves of Bagsunag and so on. For me, this comment of yours is not only immature but it shows the lack of respect towards one of the most influential person in our society.
My suggestion to you is before you write anything, fact check what he has achieved so far in his life and learn to admire his contributions in molding thousands of youth to become a contributing members in our society. Even after his term as Katri is over, even if you don’t need him but Tibet needs him more than ever before.
Pema T.
I respectfully decline your advise as I am in no need of it. If you don’t mind I would like to use my own brain to decide who to respect who deserve my redicule. Nor do I think Samdhong Rinpoche needs your help in defending him as he has got a brain of his own and perfectly capable of doing so.
Moreover, I don’t think its offensive to suggest a monk should spend his last days in a cave( or a hermit) to indulge in the more important task of spiritual pursuit rather than causing confusion and polluting his own spirituality by dabbling in to worldly affairs of politics. But since he has already plunged himself in the political world, then he should be able take some criticism and sometimes mockery from those who disagree with him. And whatever happen to Ahimsa and Tolerance and Forgiveness.
It doesn’t seem to bother him so much to stoop in the face of our enemy by saying “Tibet is an internal matter of China” but when it comes to Tibetans, he demands unquestioning respect (albeit Faith) and even doesn’t hesitate call a segment of it “MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE COMMUNIST CHINESE”. Well now we have a new enemy to worry about.
Kalsang Phuntsok,
I am not advising you but making my comments where i feel necessary. If you don’t like it, it’s up to you. I’ve nothing to lose not to get support from someone who consider Samdhong Rinpoche as unwanted and useless.
By the way, how much is our population? Doesn’t a man like him count? Always look at the bigger picture and speak out your tongue.
And remember Tibet need people from all walks of life to fight for its cause. Whether it be monks, nuns, laymans etc. We don’t have the luxury of CCP to to label someone as not worthwhile and shut them up. Every single Tibetan is vital for the existence of Tibet as a nation.
His Holiness is reported to have become extremely disturbed and abruptly walked out of the meeting.
I am not sure about this JN sentences, with experienced of 50yrs, now we had come to realized that Lama’s politics is more like romantic, today yes and tomorrow no then later they try to mix it up with religious advise and again Tibet cause remain same or more worst then before and end up with blame for tibetan’s karma.
Dechen Wangmo,
What other alternative you have to bring a lasting solution to the Tibet issue apart from the one you wrote above? R u all out against religion being the reason behind our downfall?
What is your side of the story? Can you make your stand clear?
Yes Peme T. 100%, we lost our country because of the dry love and compassion words.
Dechen Wangmo,
Let me jot down few things that you as a person failed to absorb in your previous comments. Instead of murmuring, you should have given some elaboration on the subjects.
At a time, when Tibet was occupied by China, Dalai Lama was a young innocent boy of 16, destined to become the sole saviour of the Tibetan people.
And now after 50 years, when we look back and ponder. We are proud to have our own unique identity intact and as a person living in free country, we can atleast raise our head held high and walk shoulder to shoulder with other peoples from different walks of life.
You may not be familiar with hardship that your parents went through at the initial stage as a life of refugee. It was a time of rebuilding everything that we have lost back home and it was not an easy task as we lacked in material facilities as well as man power. But we managed to heal the old wound and come out triumphantly from such disaster thereby restoring some of the pride.
For the last few years, our cause has spread far and wide. And the people from different nationalities started to understand who we are and support us for our just cause. And now they respect us even more because of our unique Religion, which if taken seriously can not only benefit oneself but others also.
And all these good things came into our life because of the unwavering leadership of H.H. The Dalai Lama, who in every speech talks about the importance of cultivating compassion for others.
Unless and until, you don’t practice compassion, it will remain as you wrote…
“Yes Peme T. 100%, we lost our country because of the dry love and compassion words”.
In the end, Religion is pure but we human beings are not good enough. We misuse religion in a wrong way.
Pema T.
Thank you for your command, i try to write less words and to understand more, supposedly we are very aware of Tibet and Tibetan cause and our current situation. I am not objecting you about our hardship in earlier days and indeed i am very appreciated what our parent and leader did to us. But at same time we can not pressure to other people saying those things.
You have to know this too that the H.H Dalai Lama is very famous today in western world because of the Tibet and Tibetan cause.
Dechen Wangmo,
I understand your feelings. I too feel that way most of the time. But its too early to say Tibet lost. The struggle still continues. It hasn’t concluded yet.
At times, I feel Tibet will eventually bring down the Chinese Communist Party.
We often fail to appreciate our spirit!
@Dechen Wangmo,
H.H. The Dalai Lama always says, “He is a simple Buddhist monk” and this “famous” thing has nothing to do with him. As a genuine Buddhist practitioner, his approach towards life is different from ordinary human beings like us.
And you said, “You have to know this too that the H.H Dalai Lama is very famous today in western world because of the Tibet and Tibetan cause”.
Of course, I agree with you more or less but not fully because Tibet and Tibetan cause is always there but without a good leader like H.H. the Dalai Lama, I believe our struggle is still at its infant stage and would take long to gain its maturity or it would have become worse.