I re-posted this editorial from the Tibetan Political Review here in full as I think it will further clarify what I have been pointing out about my disagreement with Lobsang Sangay la on the fundamental issue in our national struggle. The editorial makes one error. It assumes that I regarded the “Obama of China” statement as being made seriously, and that Lobsang la later explained it was a joke in his reponse. In fact in my original article I wrote that Lobsang la had made the statement “… half jokingly perhaps” but that it revealed an underlying motive which was serious. JN
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Investigating Lobsang Sangay’s “Obama of China” Statement
posted Oct 21, 2010 6:15 AM by The Tibetan Political Review
By the Editorial Board of The Tibetan Political Review
—
Thanks to Lobsang Sangay la and Jamyang Norbu la, the Kalon Tripa race has its first Sarah Palin incident. Palin, of course, is the defeated 2008 U.S. vice presidential candidate who supposedly said she had foreign policy experience because she could “see Russia” from her house in Alaska. That gaffe was taken somewhat out of context to criticize the half-term governor for her perceived weakness; in her case inexperience.
As readers will be aware, Norbu asserted that Sangay stated that he wants to be the “Obama of China.” To some observers, this paraphrase might suggest that Sangay is over-ambitious or that he lacks political judgment.
While the “Chinese Obama” issue has generated heated debate, the editors of The Tibetan Political Review (TPR) believe that a battle of sound-bites does not contribute to a well-informed electorate. Therefore, in order to fight oversimplification, we set out to determine what exactly Sangay actually said. It is our hope that the facts will encourage voters to examine the candidates’ policy positions rather than rely on sensational sound-bites.
Sangay’s Middle Way: Tibetan Integration Into China
Sangay’s response to Norbu was that his “Chinese Obama” comment “was a JOKE and not meant to be taken seriously.” Based on our research, this is true. However, in investigating the issue, it also became apparent that a more important issue is being overlooked that is not a joke; namely, Sangay’s proposal for Tibetans to integrate into the Chinese society and political system. Moreover, Sangay has not yet presented this viewpoint to Tibetan voters. Voters should decide for themselves whether or not they agree, but the issue should be addressed.
The event at which Sangay spoke was a panel discussion at the Woodrow Wilson Center, a think-tank in Washington DC, on October 27, 2008 (eight days before the election victory of Barack Obama). The topic was “China’s Tibet Policy in the Aftermath of Last Spring’s Unrest.” Sangay suggests that Norbu check the facts with event participants. Fortunately, an even more reliable source is available. A TPR contact provided an audio tape recording of the event (a partial transcript is available here).
Sangay spoke third, after professors Eliot Sperling and Allen Carlson. His speech began:
“I thought maybe I can relate Tibet to Obama… So 60 years after Tibet was occupied by China, America is on the verge of electing an African-American president. Look at the, what you call, situation in Tibet. Now can we ask this question in China: can a Tibetan become the next president of China? Or a premier of China? One could say it’s impossible, right?”
Sangay’s speech then discussed in detail how minority representation in the U.S. political system has been increasing, while in China there are basically no “minorities” (including Tibetans) in power at the national or even regional level. He also discussed the Chinese constitution and laws regarding minority rights and autonomy, arguing that China should enforce its own laws.
He concluded:
“So why I say this?… [T]he trajectory of African-Americans, at least the political representation in the U.S., U.S. government, has been on the upswing. As for Tibetans, it is going down…
“Again, bringing Obama and Tibet back together, you know, China wants to [be a great power like America]. But maybe China can try to emulate some good things, some positive things which, about America as well. You know, that is respecting and implementing the principles of equality, freedom, and justice as far as African-American representation in U.S. government.”
Sangay’s approach is unique. It transforms the Tibetan struggle from one for freedom and self-determination, into one for civil rights and “representation in … government.” It differs from His Holiness’ Middle Way vision, which is for a distinct and internally autonomous Tibet able to preserve its unique culture and identity.
In contrast, Sangay’s proposal lays out a vision in which Tibetans (like African-Americans in the U.S.) are given equal rights as Chinese citizens, and become integrated into the social and political system of the People’s Republic of China (PRC). This equality would then, in theory, allow an ambitious Tibetan to dream of being elected president of a democratic China.
We agree with Sangay that China should treat its “minorities” better and that all Chinese citizens should have equal rights under the law. However, minority rights in the U.S. versus China are not analogous. Tibet’s history and status are very different from that of African-Americans in the U.S. The PRC does not just discriminate against minorities on civil rights; it also marginalizes them by increasing the number of Han Chinese in ethnic minority areas. The U.S. minority population is growing and stands around 25% of the total population as of the 2000 census, distributed throughout the country. In the PRC, the minority population is less than 10% of the population, concentrated in certain geographic regions.
Additionally, Sangay’s views expressed at the Woodrow Wilson Center do not account for the Chinese tendency to look down on non-Chinese peoples or cultures (“Han chauvinism” “大汉族主义”). It also does not account for most Tibetans probably not wanting to become Chinese or be seen as Chinese.
Perhaps most troubling, Sangay’s proposal does not account for limiting Chinese migration into Tibet. If China were to treat Tibetans like the U.S. treats its minorities, then Tibet would have no right to limit the number of Chinese who settle in Tibet. There is no “African-American autonomous region” in the U.S. That would mean that Tibet becomes an integral part of China, with unlimited Chinese immigration. This would, in fact, be the opposite of the Middle Way’s goal to create a Tibetan political entity where Tibetans can control their own internal affairs.
Despite these gaps, it is logical to assume that Sangay has thought through this plan, because it forms such a prominent part of his speech. Does Sangay then accept Tibet integrating politically into the People’s Republic of China, because this is a prerequisite for a Tibetan to become president of China? Why broach the idea of a Tibetan leading China, unless the concern is simply with securing equal rights as Chinese citizens? Does Sangay also realize that any Tibetan who is president of a democratic China will need the votes of 1.3 billion Chinese more than the votes of 6 million Tibetans?
Lobsang Sangay’s Conflicting Positions
We would like to know why Sangay has not presented this position directly to the Tibetan voters. Certainly, Sangay’s approach is unique enough to merit discussion so the voters can make an informed decision. Voters are entitled to an explanation from Sangay of a proposal he apparently made only in the context of a Washington DC think-tank.
Sangay’s position is also in tension with the position that he tends to express to Tibetan audiences. For example, Sangay has written in Phayul of wanting to “witness the unfurling of our national flag… on the rooftop of the Potala Palace.” Such a sentiment may be widely shared among Tibetan voters, but it does not appear compatible with Sangay’s proposal of Tibetan integration into China.
The question, therefore, is: why does Sangay present one position to an audience of policy-makers in Washington DC, and another position to an audience of Tibetan voters? The “Washington DC Sangay” is the Harvard-trained lawyer transcending nationalism, urging Tibetans to join the Chinese system and demand equal rights as Chinese citizens. The “Dharamsala Sangay” is the Harvard-trained lawyer who is still a Tibetan Youth Congress activist at heart.
Although he does not say so, perhaps Sangay simply believes that Tibet’s political integration into China is a “third choice” if independence and autonomy prove impossible? If so, this is a position that he has not yet presented adequately to the Tibetan voters.
As it stands now, political integration appears incompatible with the “Potala flag” scenario. We would appreciate Sangay explaining this apparent discrepancy, and clarifying precisely where he stands. President Obama is a proponent of telling voters not just what they want to hear, but what they need to hear. Obama has put his faith in voters’ ability to understand nuances at times even when it has cost him politically. We hope that Sangay similarly avoids political posturing and double-messaging, and trusts the voters to evaluate objectively his entire set of proposals.
If it were not for Norbu’s article about the “Chinese Obama” comment, it is entirely possible that Tibetan voters would not be in a position to ask these questions. But we believe these are questions that must be asked. Sangay would do himself and the voters a service to clear things up. We formally invite him to respond in this forum.
Any candidate has a right to their views, but the voters also have a right to evaluate the whole candidate and not to be presented a half-picture. The voters should ensure that they have thoroughly examined all sides of any candidate they consider supporting; we strongly hope that the Tibetan media will take the investigatory lead in this effort.
*** *** ***
Postscript: The “Chinese Obama” Quote
Finally, voters may be curious whether Sangay actually claimed he wants to be the “Obama of China.” In our view, it does not matter much compared to the above questions.
However, for the record, toward the end of the event an audience member asked about Jiang Zemin’s claim that the Chinese “liberation” of Tibet was equivalent to President Lincoln’s liberation of African-American slaves. After Eliot Sperling spoke for several minutes, Sangay added:
“For the sake of time I’ll just say, you know, now I got an excuse, now, Jiang Zemin said that their treatment of Tibetans is better than the American treatments of African-Americans. Then I nominate myself as the next president of China. At least I have a credential. Obama is from law school, Harvard Law School, and I also graduated from Harvard Law School, you know, so we have si[milarities].”
Sangay claims this was “a JOKE,” which it clearly was. On the other hand, Sangay’s joke reflected themes that ran throughout his main speech. So it is reasonable for Norbu to place a certain emphasis on it.
Professor Carlson then replied, “Did you edit the Law Review?” (President Obama edited the prestigious Harvard Law Review). Sangay asked “pardon?” and then replied “I did the human rights journal. Does that [count]? Yeah, so.”
Carlson’s remark reminds us that Sangay has drawn parallels between himself and Obama during the Kalon Tripa debates. We do not think this serves Sangay’s campaign well, because we do not believe he does himself a favor by inviting the contrast between his record and President Obama’s. Rather, we encourage Sangay to campaign based on his own substantial record, of which he should be proud.
Janus may be a useful god at the Roman gates but he has no place in our politics. I am grateful for Tibetan Review editors for their report and for JN la for raising awareness.
Thanks TPR Editors for the insight! It’s clear – this guy is hallucinating! We must stop him or it will be a mockery of Tibetan’s highest political office.
But then it looks the task of stopping him is difficult too. As one of the commentators mentioned in this blog, Lobsang Sangay and his gang has let loose 15 cent bloggers to attack JN or anyone who opposes LS’s candidacy. It does seem like it. I do not know LS nor I know JN. I’m in the middle. This election means so much to me as it means to any concerned Tibetan, so obviously i follow them closely as I have been following them many many moons before this election. There’s a voice of reason in what JN says though I dont agree with all the time. With regard to LS, many may like to call him expert, but i see inconsistencies in what he says. He absolutely says things that Tibetans like to hear when he’s speaking to Tibetans, and when he’s with Chinese he says thats amusing to chinese ear, just like what late Yasser Arafat was accused of doing: saying one thing to arab speaking audience, and something totally different to english speaking audience. The fact that LS doesnt wanna talk about Rangzen or Umay lham is an indication he doesnt wanna hurt people of either parties by taking a stand and thus losing their votes in the short-run. In the long run, by keeping two feet on two different boats, he can switch to any one of the two incase one of the policies fails in future. This is his strategy at home to keep Tibetans close to him. With chinese outside, his recent remark that “Middlepathers and Rangzen activists both use excessive rhetoric…” is enough to shed light. This is the kind of statement China apologists use to attack us. LS, by saying this, is reaching out to his Chinese friends at Harvard, probably in China and beyond, and thus echoing their sentiment. In nutshell, LS is not only keeping his feet at two different boats at home to win votes of every Tibetan, he has his two feet at two different boats in outside world also, to not hurt Chinese!
With his “15cent” army who are trying to mislead public with appalling camprison as “obama of Tibet”, all sort of exggerations without first educating themselves about the facts, and one of his supporters who said in this blog, upon questioning LS’s credibility, “it’s politics…it’s Ok in politics…”, has reduced sanctimonious Kalon Tripa election into UP/Bihar politics. Kalon Tripa election is about electing someone who’s committed to serve Tibetan people selflessly with honesty and integrity, not electing someone who’s manipulative, power-hungry and has a history of being Chameleon.
Lobsang sangay lak might be joking from his part in the statement ” i want to be Obama of china ” but it also brings disgrace to our national struggle, the sacrifices made by our Patriots standing up for our rights to be independent nation and now she is facing the threat of dangerous integration into PRC through lobsang lak’s joke. he cannot “JOKE” around with the subjects concerning Tibetan People’s right. most importantly it doesn’t really necessary to have graduated from Haward Law school to be the prime minister of TGIE. and you probably graduated from Haward to accept defeat before fighting for something. so don’t joke around.
Austin O’Malley
‘If you keep your mouth shut you will never put your foot in it’.
Dr.Lobsang Sangay I would presume can be found guilty of the above quote and in his poor taste of humor. But he has it appears an opinion which may not be to my own liking but at the very least his own opinion.
Albert Einstein
Insanity: ‘doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results’.
Kasur Tenzing Tethong having served our government in every capacity including as Kalon Tripa cannot be expected to be any different if elected again.
Tsering Topgyal, I suspect you to be one of the 15cent army of LS. Anyone can agree or disagree with any candidate, but when some one starts denigrating one candidate and praising the other, it starts smelling fishy!!! Are you one of the fishes in LS’s fish tank that he feeds daily? wink, wink!
Sometimes one truly feels schizophrenic with the Nations identity.
RANGZEN is the inner conviction.
while Middle way is the official mantra.
tibetan@heart
It pains me to reply to your nonsense but as I had earlier used quotes from Albert Einstein and Austin O’Malley it would not quite be right today if I did not quote Sir Winston Churchill.
‘The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter’
we can’t judge the whole package of lobsang sangay from just few hearsays and statements. You’ll find discrpencies and contradictions in all the greatest minds of history. they say many things, and apparently, few of them won’t come out perfect. He’s experienced, heard views of people from varied background at harvard, and knows alot more than us people. He can’t paint his heart out about his policies. Everybody adjusts by saying things bit differently.
let’s analyze tethong’s tecnique: his talks are dreadfully vague, vague, and vague…so that people can’t corner him down with any of his quotes. So he doesn’t receive much criticism. JN, and his blind followers shouldn’t be fooled by tethong’s subtle tecniques.
if LS doesn’t come on the top, most youngsters will lose interest in tibetan politics, as they’re so fed up with oldies holding offices with no change in all 60 years so far, which is a no small thing. policies, histories,and personalities apart, LS, as we all see, has enourmous HOPE VALUE. so all should seriously think wise before pronouncing judgement.
Even if LS has plans to take a step below middle path,it’s reasonable. That’s a realist stand. That sort of things shouldn’t be made open to voters who are more driven by emotion than rationality.
imagine middle path proposals like ” stop all immigration, and remove all military from tibet”. who do you think will do that? there’s more to lose than gain from execution of such demand. all individuals and nations are driven by self-interest. dalai lama says middle path is mutually beneficial, but in fact, it obviously isn’t mutually beneficial. we’ve more to gain, and china has more to lose.
we should be realistic. those who shout for rangzen has nothing more than “irritation value”. nothing absolutely else. pragmatism is the need of the hour.
I wonder what editors of TPR and JN-la have to say about His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s recent comment that ‘he’s hopeful of returning to Tibet with a Chinese passport.’
His Holiness truly enjoys the legitimacy of the Tibetans both in and outside Tibet, so that comment should have drawn more attention, than LS-la’s in a think-think institute.
HELLO EVERYBODY,
I think every Tibetan in exile and in Tibet are confused. H.H and Tibetan Government in exile’s stand is the middle way yet deep inside every Tibetan wishes for a free Tibet.So it’s very difficult for any Tibetan including LS, to express exactly where to stand.These two paths are like our mind and heart.Our mind says “Autonomy” but our heart says ” Independence”.
Remember folks, after the last year’s Mass Meeting held in Dharamsala, TGI concluded that it would stick on with ‘middle way’ but it doesn’t bear any results within few years than it would opt for another stand.So, even TGI position can’t be so concrete.It’s politics, it changes, we have to flow with it and see which path is better and when.Another thing is that we need to be rational.We wish for Independence but how?Yet Autonomy sounds more promising because of international support and other reasons.We are hoping that if change happens in China then Tibet may get independence.So,if we get autonomy in few years and if change really occurs in China then we have more chance of getting independence.Therefore it isn’t important to express one’s stand as it keeps on changing with the political time.Despite,we don’t have a multi-party system in TGI and a candidate’s exact stand is not a prerequisite for the Kalon Tripa’s post.We are electing our prime minister in one party system.We are not electing a new Government.The Government’s stand would be same and who ever gets elected he would work within the framework of the present Government.
So my relatives of blood and bones,don’t argue too much about which BULLETS that we forget the “GUN”.
*Note: Please read”TGI’ as Tibetan Government in Exile.
China’s Obama or Tibetan Obama they are exactly same to me if our government decide remain under People’s republic China. Addition Lobsang Sangay clarified that it was joke so what is the big deal. We all make joke politically on everything.
Hey folks,
JN said in his previous articles that he would further investigate the facts regarding ” LS’s Obama of China” then why is TPR doing his job?
Something is fishy out here!
I am glad that my fellow Tibetans are speaking their mind. You guys are doing a great service to our nation. LS is definitely not ready for Kalon leave alone Kalon Tripa. I don’t think i can show my face to people after Prof. Carlson’s remarks, “Did you edit the law review?” LS answer was, yes, human rights review. REally? lets investigate… He’ll again say, that was a joke. Stupid, did you know what was Prof. Carlson’s saying?—You ain’t there yet!
Who said that Tethong had been a kalon Tripa before and will do the same next time? You don’t know anything yet. Unlike past, the present kalon tripa has so much authority and it can wreck havoc if somebody like LS comes in. The role of Kalon tripa then and now has more dissimilarities than similarities. The only major similarities is the Title, Kalon tripa.
it’s is like LS and Obama- Yes, there are both from Harvard law school. This is the only similarities between them. But, they share umpteen no. of dissimilarities between them. To have his supporter claim of such similarities is understandable but to have LS himself draw comparison is rediculous. This is not just “ChakDhong” but simply went coocoo, a sign of impaired judgement. Before you click on the link below for Obamals resume, i’ll draw some major dissimilarities.
LS was a Mediocre student who got admission to Harvard with the blessing from Tenzin Chodrak (who only helps for Khampa). Imagine, LS was on a fullbright scholar wait list. His performance wasn’t outstanding–ON A WAITLIST–A CANDIDATE FOR HARVARD?? WHERE ARE THOSE ON THE FIRST LIST GOING TO SEND UNLESS THEY ALL GET ADMITTED TO HARVARD?
OBAMA WAS an honor student, went to columbia (IVy League) before joining the harvard. He was the President of a Harvard Law Review. LS have no clue about what Prof Carlson was saying.
LS Professional experience is Zero with the exception of TYC executive member. No parliament experience (too small position for Him), no teaching position held, and grassroot effort to improve the poor and needy.
Obama, on the other hand, was a grassroot organiser and accomplished so much. Then hold Teaching position at University of Chicago as senior lecturer, then Associate Attorney, State Sanator, State of Illinois, US Senator etc etc.
Obama won because of his great resume and informed voters. LS may win with degree from Harvard, with zero professional experience and uneducated, sectarain and uninformed voters.
For Information on Obama’s resume, click this link. Check this out: http://cdn.theladders.net/static/pdf/Senator_Obama_Resume.pdf
For info on LS, read his boring websites.
Yours Agu,
On a mission to enlighten the fooled public.
Sangay my friend,
Please continue to speak your mind. I see a potential in You. YOu make perfect sense.
You are right, LS has many “15cents'” army in Shichak- many of them are engaging to hooliganism. The night before the preliminary election, those army, with the generous gift from Uncle S, drank, got drunk, and then in groups of bikers with loud noise (raising their accelerator) and shouting an threatning intermittently like, “IF tethong wins, we will not keep live quietly. I don’t know if the translation is right. But this is what i have heard those youngsters speak…Gesi tethong Thopna dhakas bakas shagki men” This was a threat and must be brought to public’s attention. LS should stop financing them.
Yours AGU.
This website http://www.shadowtibet.com, otherwise an honest political form, has now been reduced to a cheap propaganda machine of Tethong. There’s a huge bias towards Tethong, and antagonism towards LS.
If you guys say anything agianst LS, you’re most welcome, but produce EVIDENCE. Mere rambling isn’t enough. i can spread baseless rumours like tethong corrupted 1,000,000 rupees during his office, if things like evidence or proof aren’t needed. you will see how stupid, slandering this forum will become.
so you guys gotta produce evidence, evidence, evidence.
As a voter, my best strategy is to look beyond one term or 2 term.
I know it takes time to introduce a change and we need the same horses to get us to the destination.
THE BEST STRATEGY FOR A VOTER IS TO LOOK INTO FUTURE AND DO NOT ACT IN PANIC , ACTION BY PANIC IS NOT A STRATEGY AT ALL.
DO NOT BE A VICTIM OF PANIC BY THE FORCES OF IRRELEVANT AND FALSE LOGIC.
where can i get the video/ audio tape of lobsang sangay’s speech when he made obama statement?
From the above judgement, it is hard to conclude anything unless and until Lobsang lak speaks out. But as a Tibetan, it is my duty to share one’s thought.
I got a strange feeling when I read the above review about Lobsang Sangay Lak. As an educated Tibetan, he should not be making statements, which can belittle our cause in the face of those westernes and the false impression that he wants to portray regarding the Tibetans and their stand on Tibet. Why he need to go too far to touch on the sensitive issues, which concerns all the Tibetans.
It looks as if he is going to sell his own unique identity (Tibetan Integration Into China) for the sake of seating on the highest throne. I don’t vote for him this time. Only if he speaks in one tone and mindful of what he says regarding Tibet and an experience to back up. Till then my vote for him is Nil.
Jamyang Norbu’s English is what a Tibetan would call “Chu gyug gyug”, like a river flowing. However, I have not been following his writings, which are mostly essays except for an award-winning fiction novel “The Mandala of Sherlock Holmes”, are either vilifying the leaders of the TGiE, more so the Dalai Lama and Samdhong Rinpoche, or are hackneyed — Rangzen-is-the-only-way- Umelam-is-chome
(nonsense) — argument.
The last two pieces on his blog not only spew stale old views but also show how much Jamyang la lives in a fantasy world. The way he has
criticised Lobsang Sangay is far more regressive then what Jamyang la believes himself to be — progressive. He was not holding his ground in his arguments. His writing may make him a good fiction writer but it doesn’t uplift Tibetan
society or contribute to democracy. Hence my admiration for Jamyang la is ebbing.
JN’s English should be good as he attended an
expensive English medium school in Darjeeling, like other children of Kudraks, while his father was a principle at a Tibetan refugee school in Darjeeling. And as a member of the Kudrak clan he shrewdly and conveniently blamed Bapa Phuntsok
Wangyal to be the person who brought the communist Chinese to Tibet and hence a
“Gyaltsongpa” (the seller of the country).
On the contrary, it was because the Kudrak’s corrupt and immoral rule of Tibet — remember all the serfs and slaves that Kudraks kept and the sky-earth gap between Kudraks (monastic institutions to some extent) and the laities — the Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal saw the need for change and equality. It was not that Phuntsok Wangyal first went to China for help. He went to Calcutta and met with Jyoti Basu to seek help to
bring change in Tibet. Therefore, Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal is one of the greatest revolutionaries of Tibet.
Kudraks kept the entire Tibetan people powerless and without any opportunities, while neglecting their responsibility to the common people which
their privilege should have afforded.
When the Chinese People’s Liberation Army invaded the eastern part of Tibet, the Kudraks were busy
feasting. Even when the Kashag (executive body of the Tibetan government) was convened to decide the future course of action for Tibet, the pro-Tibetan independence members were afraid to speak their minds. Most of the Kudraks had already welcomed the communists as they had been
promised higher posts. Would Jamyang la write about these events?
And when JN says there should be party system in Tibetan society. It has to come from the people, and then the parties should fight for elections, and amend the system by framing laws in the parliament. Parties will not come from somewhere above. Didn’t JN float a party many years ago, when one of his friends formed the short-lived communist party of Tibet? What happened to that, if that’s right? Its easy to come up with political ideas from the comfort of an armchair and the computer. National Democratic Party of Tibet is a step towards achieving party system in our society, but JN is said to be averse to this party.
It would be fine to criticise Lobsang Sangay for, if there was any, his negative sides, but JN could have also mentioned the positive sides of LS — that he has a PhD in Law from Harvard, debated with hundreds of Chinese scholars for over ten years presenting the true case of Tibet, travelled the world speaking on Tibet, given
inspirational speeches to thousands of Tibetan youth and visited Tibetans in settlements in India to connect with the real people.
What’s wrong to follow Umelam, the Middle-way policy proposed by the Dalai Lama? This policy has the backing of the majority of the Tibetan people and is the current policy of the the TGiE. If there is an election for the president of China in a democratic set up, a Tibetan can fight for the post as well. Whether s/he will win or not is a totally different issue. So, why does JN trick and play with that idea and try to make LS a “gyaltsongpa”. The idea is very much within the current policy, irrespective of Lobsang Sangay’s personal ideology.
Why has Jamyang la missed the important points? Lobsang Sangay is a nightmare for China as it will counter their view that the Tibetan issue will disappear after the passing away of the Dalai Lama.
Why is Jamyang la not appreciating the younger
generation taking the responsibility for the Tibetan struggle? Why is Jamyang la not able to appreciate when Tibetans, for the first time, are appointing a young and able laity to the highest post. Why Jamyang la is not able to appreciate the Tibetan people’s mandate of choosing the youngest Tibetan prime minister ever?
As far as Tenzin Namgyal Tethong la is concerned, I am not writing off all the great things that he has done for the Tibetan people in the last few decades. Jamyang la is absolutely right that Tenzin la has so much experience. Did he
have that experience when he first started his work in TGiE, or was he a born experienced? What’s his second virtue that he deserve the post of PM. Sorry I am forgetting.
I do not have anything against Gyari Dolma and Phurbu Dorjee as I am sure they both are as much dedicated like many others, if not more. But the way Jamyang la has employed to deceive the readers, his trick is simply not working. Let’s
take all the favourite names racing for Kalon Tripa — Lobsang Sangay, Tenzin Namgyal Tethong, Gyari Dolma, Penpa Tsering, Lobsang Jinpa and, ok, let’s take Tashi Wangdi in although it is believed that he has not been wishing to be in the fray, and there are less popular ones like Tseten Norbu and the least liked Kalsang Phuntsok Godruk. Now let’s compare all of them in full honesty for their ability, potential, charisma and standing in every sense of the word. Do you think it’s still not Lobsang Sangay?
And let me tell you, LS didn’t volunteer to run for the PM. Tashi Wangdi la didn’t either. TNT, I am not sure. Rest all did. LS was proposed as a candidate by many NGOs and individuals.
Whether LS can/will bring change or not is a different matter. He will become a symbol of
change and that like Gaden Tripa, the change will signify that Kalon Tripa’s post is also not sealed to Kudraks and Lamas. It will become a hope for future generation of Tibetans.
Jamyang la is, anyway, preaching to the converted. And the virtual world is not going to impact the current trend of the majority favouring Lobsang Sangay. My short piece is not to convince Jamyang la and those who support other candidates. My point was to set the record straight and to tell you all for what I
wish to become a part of the important change our society will experience.
I would vote for TN Tethong for several reasons.
First, TN Tethong, having worked for the Tibetan government and knowing HH better personally, would have more influence over His Holiness. Though HH deserves respect and veneration as our spiritual leader, as a temporal leader those around him shouldn’t be petrified to contradict him or advise him when these are needed. I remember reading in the October 4 edition of the New Yorker, in an article about HH that Tethong finally told HH that he (HH) should say “I have no hatred” instead of his usual “We have no hatred towards the Chinese.”
Second, someone who prefers self determination is more acceptable to me than someone who chooses Tibetan integration to Chinese.
Third, I would prefer to vote for someone who is more restrained in his promises than for someone who goes around making different promises (that are not reconcilable) to different people.
Tethong went to Tibet as a young man representing Tibetans in exile. He and rest of the delegation saw first hand the sufferings of the Tibetans inside Tibet and their trust and faith in HH and the TGIE. We saw how the Tibetans in Tibet flocked to the delegates and many of them were overcome. As a Tibetan he has to be touched in profound ways by that experience. And is more likely to have their interest at heart when he becomes the PM of Tibet. As for LS, if I am correct it appears LS went to China. As a representative of what? What was reason of his China visit and what is its outcome?
Looks like the Chinese have started the integration alrady…
http://www.highpeakspureearth.com/2010/10/tibetan-students-in-beijing-protest-for.html.
i perfectly agree with Aka Nagtok. He/She seems the only people here with a sound, balanced sense of judgement with educated presumptions.
by all means, LS believes in reconciation and co-operation with PRC to resolve our issue, which is at present, struck on a ceasefire due to hard stance from both sides.
don’t you think we should soften a little? what shall we do, well, when we keep our same hard stance, and PRC don’t give a damn? there’s no solution, my friend. Study subjects like international relations, global business, economics, finance…and you’ll see how monsterous china has become, and will continue to grow at quadrupled rate.
So, tethong’s brainchild of ” self-determination” isn’t much different from what LS has in mind, except that TETHONG used an impressive terminology to score a uniqueness quotient. The essense is same. What’s the big deal with LS’s china-oriented approach, if the case really is?
what tethong hasn’t achieved during his office in kalon’s chair won’t be achieved this time also, especially when he’s grown older, more senile, with withering energies and drive. why tethong deserves 2 chances while LS has none? let LS give a shot,rather than allowing a mediocre candidate a second attempt who has no brain, except so-called experience. In fact, I believe LS has more experience than TN, though the former’s resume ran broad around various issues rather than being concentrated on gankyi and dalai lama circles. don’t we need someone who has seen more?
I strongly agree with the Rangzen activists, and consider myself as one.Deep down,we all agree with conviction,that,Tibet was an independent nation… illegally occupied by the communist China precisely since 1959.
China totally denies,that, Tibet was ever an independent nation.Thus leaving no room for any form of discussions about either as an “Independent or a Greater Autonomous” Tibet.
His Holiness’ “Middle Way” proposal was made based on the message from China,that, Mr.Gyalo Dhundup conveyed to the Dalai Lama.But China has not yet responded to it. Rather they try to ignore it at best/worst.They even denied having said any such suggestive ideas to discuss with the exile government (with or without the idea of independence of Tibet involved).
What really is hard for China to ignore is when the Tibetan people come out in the streets,with Tibetan National Flags flying high in the heavens,and shouting:
FREE TIBET!!!
“TIBET WAS NEVER A PART OF CHINA”,
“TIBET WAS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY”,
China out of Tibet,
Tibet belongs to the Tibetans,
China lies(about Tibet,Tibetan history,and the Tibetan independence) Tibetans die,
Out-out,China out,
UNO! we want justice! (seeking the truth and justice about the Tibetan Independence).
Does any thing said in the above slogans sound only “irritants” and bear no value to any one?
I would have imagined that coming from a CCP member,not from one of us.
To the CCP,these are not only”irritants,”these are rather worrisome and matter of grave concern for them to remain in power in Tibet.
Therefore my understanding is,we as ordinary citizens of Tibet in exile,have been seeking Independence all along to date.
Of-course our “Government In Exile” stands by “Middle Way Path”.That could stand or change depending on how China responds to our Government in exile in the coming days,weeks,months and years.
Aka Nagtok:
You have made a very insightful comment.I hope more people will share their genuine thoughts with the public.It is so important for more, well read and better informed people to share their thoughts and views points on blogs like this enabling average people to learn,and expend the horizon of thoughts and understanding.
All in all I enjoyed reading every one’s opinions and comments.Thank you all!
I don’t know if jamyang norbu support rangzen approach,then why he ignore candidates who support rangzen? and he support tenzin tethong who was in the past prime minister and there is no thing has changed at that time, and the worst that he have resign, if he resign then why know he want to become a prime minister? that quit useless if tethong elected prime minister, my own view if jamyang norbu really support rangzen approach then he should at least not ignore the candidates who support rangzen approach like tseten norbu and kalsang phuntsok and he should write about him, my own view that the best for kalon tripa postiton is kalsang phuntsok gudrukpa
What is Kudrak got to do with democracy? Let me tell you my “nyingtam” Aphe trugu. Not all kudraks are bad like not all Khampas are Taiwan Phoksen.
Tethong wasn’t born experinced. You are right and thats exactly what i and JN la is saying. He didn’t jump to Kalon Tripa post straight from school like LS either. Tethong slowly climbed the ladder. First as a clerk/translator, then as secretary and representative, then kalon and later Kalon tripa. He started his career in late 60s/ early 70s but didn’t became kalon until 1990s. Thats the way to go and I advise LS not to jump to the highest post straight after school.
What is he gonna do after 5 years. Probably at 50 he will try to become Obama of china and such process do impossible things.
Yours AGu
The TGIE(tib. govt in exile) is the second functioning body, following HHDL, which is considered to be representing unity of so-called cholkasum. the incumbent sangdong rinpoche also emphasis importance of sustainment of exile govt. last 50yr we have well survived under the leadership of HHDL, he use to say, now the question is how to tackle problems in coming 50yrs. Sangdong rinpoche has worked really hard to make our exile govt. a well functioning, and collected every penny to save a sum of money to overcome financial problems in near future.
Now the big question is what kind of quality of person we have to choose for next kalontripa. In my opinion the future kalontripa should be matured, stable and experienced person. the kalontripa is not a laboratory to experiment theory. therefore without any doubt tethong la is most deserving candidate.
talking about this piece of JN’s writing(http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=28370&article=FURTHER+MUSINGS+ON+THE+UPCOMING+ELECTIONS+%E2%80%93+Jamyang+Norbu), I really acknowledge, the first hand report of JN la, not coz he is cousin of Tethong namgyal la but he was an editor of mangtso journal, the same journal which was the bases of the allegation of embezzlement of Tethong la. the accusation is totally baseless, his writing hopefully bring more conviction in people. JN la has stated only two demised leader of chushigangdrug faction had spread the rumour, but i want to add that more people were involved from same faction and they are well alive and some are holding supreme authority in their respective tibetan settlement.
regarding recent candidate campaign is concern, i live in Majnukatilla and i have personally experienced it, most of the putting pictures of candidates were done in midnight or early morning, as soon as other candidates picture were posted, from nowhere 6 lobsang sange army will appear and tear it all off, only his picture will be left for audiences. ofcourse they work for money.
As most of us have seen the CD of kalontripa debate held in tipa hall, I heard from reliable source that the staging of the debate was all pre-planned by the organisers. well known supporter of Tethong la didn’t got any change to place their questions even after frequent insistence. the audiences laughters and roars all favored LS. The question is why LS is so eager or determine to become kalontripa. he is 42yr of age, he has a plenty of time left in life to try next term. Why he is putting whole his energy and money in advocating himself. Every other candidates are also very enthusiast, atleast not less than LS.
Regarding Jamyang norbu la and TPR report has also tried to show the back side of the coin, which we need a further inquiry. if whatever reported turns out to be true than it is same as what had happened to Late Jawaharlal Nehru, that his favourite subject which is foreign policy had left a spot in his legacy.
Jamyang Norbu-la
Thank you for your response and I beg your pardon for not responding sooner.
As we approach the fiscal year end, the days (and a good part of nights) are increasingly hectic with endless meetings/paperwork on sales target, budget, etc.
I read your response but am not convinced. Below are the reasons why.
As I watched the Katri candidates’ debate at TIPA (September 9th) through Phayul.com, I was filled with great pride and a deep sense of collective achievement.
I felt pride, joy and hope to see dedicated, intelligent candidates, spanning 2 generations, taking up the challenge and rising to the occasion to make that debate as respectable and as democratic as possible. And above all, responding frankly to the audience in the best way that they could.
The audience too was engaged, disciplined and respectful of the candidates and fellow audience members. At the same time, many of their questions were sharp, frank expressions of the issues and problems facing us as a Race and us as a Diaspora spread over the world.
To me, the debate on that day showed that we Tibetans:
1. Have not only managed to retain our language, but have managed to come up with words and expressions in Tibetan to accommodate non-traditional (for Tibetan people) concepts such as democracy, election, ecology, etc.
2. Are a tolerant people
3. Are sophisticated enough to be able to carry on debates in a civil manner
4. Disciplined without being totalitarian
5. Are ahead of our oppressor – China, in that we are following the path of democracy while China is a totalitarian country
Above everything else, it was a pride to see the candidates and the audience expressing their thoughts in Tibetan without the (or minimal) need to borrow words from other languages. That I think is a huge achievement, and a sure indicator that our cause and our identity will not die out.
Nearly 60 years since the fateful day when Ngaboe Ngawang Jigme signed away Tibet’s independence by signing the 17 Point Agreement, and 51 years since HHDL and our parents/grandparents ran away from Tibet into exile in India, our cause hasn’t died off. And we as a people haven’t lost our language and our identity.
I was in Tibet for nearly a month this summer and visited quite a few places in Kham, Amdo and U (did not have the time to visit Tsang, Toed and Changthang this time round).
I talked with many people, both ordinary as well as intellectuals. A most interesting impression that I got was that although they are acutely aware of China’s rule over Tibet, they exude a deep sense of dignity in being a Tibetan, the dignity of being the original master of the land called Tibet and living in the land that belong to them.
Their reverence of HHDL is deep and His legitimacy as the Leader of the Tibetan People is indisputable in their eyes.
And I hope their allegiance to TGIE is as strong, by extension of their allegiance to HHDL.
China does not have the historical legitimacy to rule Tibet. Its rule started only after its claimed “liberation of Tibet”.
We know, the Chinese know, and the world knows what “liberation” and totalitarian rule by China has done to Tibet, especially given the 2008’s massive demonstration by Tibetans from every part of the Tibetan plateau against China’s rule.
If we, Tibetans in exile, can demonstrate that we are a people able to rule ourselves based on rule of law, under a democratically elected TGIE, we can ask China and the world “What legitimacy does China, a totalitarian country, has to rule Tibet?”
More importantly, our brethrens in Tibet too hopefully will view TGIE as the legitimate government of Tibet in their heart of hearts.
That is what we should be aiming for.
Whereas the previous two KT elections lacked willing candidates to run for the office, the current election saw a huge increase in the number of candidates willingly running for office. That I think is a huge progress and something to be proud of.
Just like the rest of us, the candidates are bound to have fears and doubts. If we are afraid of baring ourselves to scrutiny by all and sundry, so are they.
But even then, they have come forward and risen to the occasion.
They are trying to walk their talks and I for one have huge respect for each of them.
All of them come either with the experience of a lifetime of service to the Tibetan cause in various capacities, or with high academic achievements, or both.
As such, I think they are the best of the bests coming forth to take up the burden to serve the Tibetan people.
If my candidate wins, I will be immensely rewarded to think that he/she has won from among the best of bests.
If my candidate loses, I will be consoled to think that he/she has lost because he/she was competing with the best of bests and that the office is in the hands of another deserving candidate.
We need to think with understanding and compassion, and be wise in what we write.
By virtue of your life long contribution in enlightening the Tibetan people and in enhancing democracy in our society, I would have expected a more enlightened and supportive (of the democratic process) article from you.
A person of your stature has a noblesse oblige (noble obligation) to the society, and there is no room for airing personal likes and dislikes.
I would expect nothing less than fairness in anything written by a person of your stature.
Any criticism should be aimed at contributing to the overall good of the Tibetan society, and in this particular case, in boosting democratic process in our society.
You have asked me if my priority has changed.
No, it hasn’t.
It always has been and is Rangzen.
But at the same time, I believe that the path to Rangzen can only be through democratization of our government.
TCL
JN’s views arent popular with the mainstream Tibetan population, but his criticism of TGIE is a separate issue and irrelevant to the “obama of china” article and the Kalon Tripa debate. STICK TO THE ISSUE, instead of trying to create dislike for JN.
The Title “KUDRAK” is not an official title bestowed or given anymore, but simply a past term used for aristocrats in Old Tibet. AGAIN JNORBU AND TENZIN TETHONG BOTH WERE EITHER NOT BORN OR LITTLE KIDS WHEN TIBET WAS INVADED.
How does any of the things you said about Kudraks regardless of whether its true or not have anything to do with Tenzin Tethong la. How is that a reflection on his character? I really don’t see any connection there.
4. You said Jamyang Norbu didn’t mention any of his positive credentials like the fact that LS graduated from Harvard and has gone around giving numerous lectures. Did you read the article, because here is the direct quote from the article you are criticizing.
i quote Jamyang Norbu’s editorial from TibetanPoliticalReview website. READERS CAN CHECK IT.
“One of the more interesting candidates in this elections is Lobsang Sangay la, who is not only someone with a J.S.D. (doctoral degree) from Harvard Law School but an expressive though sometimes glib speaker, with a record of involvement in Tibetan politics from when he was a Tibetan Youth Congress leader in Delhi. Lobsang Sangay la has also performed a real service to the process of Tibetan democracy by shaking up the creaky electoral machine of exile politics with his campaigns tours and lectures which are without precedent in Tibetan society.”
Now that seems like J-Norbu pretty much mentioned everything you CLAIMED he didn’t. He even gave him praise for his aggressive campaign tour for the Katri race. I think that this is a avenue that all candidates must incorporate into their campaign strategies.
5. Did you read the article on TPR on “OBAMA OF CHINA” quotation… LS’s vision of integration into china and one day a Tibetan being able to be a the PRESIDENT/premiere of china is different than KUNDUN’S vision of a distinct and separate Tibetan Autonomous Region. ITS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION.
Lobsang sangay la needs to be clear with the voters about where he stands.
Hopefully our small news media is getting wind of all these ramblings on Blogs and Tibetan Forums.
I want to see some tough questions next time.
Points against LS.
1. What do you have to say about Lobsang Sangay la not fulfilling the requirements of the FULL-BRIGHT Scholarship?
Some People say its because he could serve the Tibetans better in US.
But all he has done is go around giving TALKS (on his IC card) He could have easily done that living in INDIA where he was no doubt needed. He also had 2 talks at Harvard with Chinese scholars and KUNDUN. Which you can argue how beneficial that was. I for one don’t believe we will get anywhere by playing nice with China.
furthermore, By not going back lobsang Sangay la has lost someone else a chance to get a fullbright. Correct me if am wrong, but i was under the assumption that by not going back, the Fullbright committee is less willing to send future students.
Besides that What else has he done? i ask you WHAT? i want to know.
Why does he get privileges that aren’t EARNED. A leader is not one who takes special privileges. Imagine some one who evaded the draft in America running for president, He would never be able to win.
Lobsang Sangay claims that he is the man of the people. That doesn’t seem very much like the “Man of the people,
2. He paid unemployed concessions on his greenbook fees. He still hasn’t given any CONCLUSIVE evidence.
– PLEASE GIVE YOUR GREENBOOK TO THE TIBETAN ELECTION COMMISSION OR ANY THIRD PARTY GROUP AND THEY WILL CLEAR YOUR NAME OUT PUBLICLY.
3. Its still unclear what his policy or vision at KT is. He seems to switch sides constantly to suit his audience. Its commonly assumed that LS supports the “Middle Way” but his integration of Tibetans in the Chinese System is a lot different than KUNDUN’S vision for a distinct and separate Tibetan Autonomous Region which handles its own internal affairs.
4. NO EXPERIENCE (this is the biggest one) Absolutely no experience or work within exile government. JAMYANG DORJEE wrote a great article about this. In the future we need certain requirements of our candidates before their nomination is officially accepted.
I see a new TCL: wiser, idealistic, compassionate, overly-optimistic. A total transformation from what she used to be.
I can’t really believe this!
question to tethong lak,( tethong’s supporters can answer!)
1. You resigned from office due to personal, monetary problems during your previous term. what guarantee can you give to ensure it won’t happen again, if you win the katri post in 2011?
2. why you didn’t stand up for kalon tripa race with samdhong lama during the last term? you’re very ripe then. any specific reason?
3. How will you convince voters about your academic credentials with your mere high school diploma? They will look for at least a college graduate.
@ old monk….although I doubt whether you’re old or a monk.
TNT answered the first question in the Dharamsala debate so thoroughly that his answer was followed by a long applause from the crowd. The second question is pointless and silly. Your third question lacks an understanding of how difficult things were in the late 60s, and how the idea of sacrifice and service were the call of the day for people like Tethong. It is the work of people like Tethong that made many things possible, like the Fullbright scholarship for Tibetans to study at places like Harvard. TNT’s knowledge and experience today is worth several Harvard degrees in management, diplomacy, political Science, Advocacy, and Tibetan studies.
I agree with Average Tenzin. You guys are so quick to forget his vast accomplishments while he was working for our exile govt., some of which are still operating respectfully to this date. What are the accomplishment of our so-called Tibetan Obama? His position seems to be even worse than Middle-path. It is not a compromise between Rangzen or Middle-way, it is a much lower and baser status; one of total assimilation and perhaps annihilation of our culture and our country. Hopefully, we won’t have a companion for our ‘beloved’ Ngabo. He really needs to make his status clear. Although, I do agree that Tethong needs to market himself a little better, sound a little bit more optimistic and hopeful, I do not doubt that he is as honest as a politician can get.
Old Monk,
If you can prove about Tethong’s “monetery problems” Thupten Paljor la from Nepal is willing to give Rs. 300,000. First, prove to the tibetan world that they was actually a “monetary problem,” only then somebody can answer your question.
As jamyang la said, members of the old chushi gandruk who misunderstood the report for a reason, repeatedly spread those rumors in their journal is still carrying out today. The then and the also the present mastermind is none other than Juchen Thupten Namgyal. No other khampa or even amdowa or Utsangwa can match his calibre of politics. Without him, those old chushi gangdruk can’t function as a cohesive unit like today. The khampas respects him. He has the brain, guts and chinese money and connection.
Juchen dislike Tethong for many reasons: first, tethong is one of the last ramnants of great Utsangwa leaders and one who doesn’t bow down their head and gets tougher when the road gets rougher.
Second, Juchen and most of the old chushi gangdruk Khampa hates him because during his Kalon Tripa tenure Tawain issues prop up (the issue of making treaty of sort with Taiwan’s Tibetan Mongolian Affairs Committee). That was the time when HHDL was so pissed off and he wanted to ask the Dotoe people wether these Juchen’s people are the real representative of the DOTOE.
The referendum idea was came up in ATPD and Samdhong Rinpoche was then its Chariman. 99.99% of the Dotoe mimang rejected those leaders and their treaty with taiwan’s TMAC. Tethong la, as the Kalon Tripa supported Samdhong rinpoche and the Dotoes mimang’s decision. Tethong la didn’t budge. neither bribe nor threat budge him. Instead, we went along the good guys- the good Dotoe guys like SR, Sonam Topgyal and others.
Since then, They didn’t let tethong la work for us. Juchen Thupten and their gang were determined to make Tethong and for that matter all good tibetan’s life miserable- You know they get paid if they create trouble.
It’s unfortunate that people like Juchen can do such a lowly work. They don’t care about HHDL and the Tibetan cause. Juchen is no fan of LS either. The reason why, juchen and his Chushi Gangdruk nominate Sonam Topgyal Khorlotsang (STK) for Katri 2011 was that STK can undermine LS vote from monasteries whose monks are mostly khampas and STK being Triwu Khampa, he was huge Tehor base in sera and other monasteries. Juchen was thinking then that they had done enough damage to Tethong from their rumors and he was almost sure tethong can not recover his tarnished image as “Boshung Pasha Sakhen”.
When Utsang Tsokpa this time decided to do strong campaign for their candidate and to dispel the rumor, and when it actually started to make some difference and see some ray of hope for tethong’s victory, they changed their tactics. They befriended LS in the spirit of same Khampahood. Thats why in Bir, all the monasteries posted a huge photos of LS as if like he is our god king. They accuse Utsang as sectarian and themselves as secular. In reality, they have never been secular- they have never voted for Utsangwa as Katri or as chithus Tsoktso and never will.
So, Tethong la was very careful. In one of the videos he said his friends, well wishers and many tibetan civil servants asked him to be in the Katri race but wasn’t sure about general public’s support. Thts why, there was little hesitation from him. He also know that Utsangwas are not that sectarian like Khampa and amdowa who can stand up for him if there ever will be problem or rumors. He is careful to be meddling in those dirty world of Tibetan politics given the notoriety, and political shrewdness of Juchen Thupten. Besides, there is already a rift between Ngari and Utsang, thanks to Juchen Thupten, and Karma Choephel tried to inflame those divisiveness after last year’s drama in our Chithus.
When the bad guys such as Juchen Thupten and Gyame Phogsen hates Tethong then all right thinking tibetan should support Tethong. Our enemy will not hate our bad guys, instead they hate our good guys such as Tethong la, Samdhong rinpoche and other great Tibetan Leaders.
My comrade, thou should open your eyes to the real world of Tibetan dirty politics. Anyway, tethong will not be here for ever and probably won’t rerun next term why not, as one big family, have a true leader with so much potential be Kalon tripa this time. Tethong la is visionary and had so much to offer if he becomes katri with unprecedent power and responsibility unlike yesteryears.
Imagine if LS is to become Katri and win two terms– he will be 52 by the end of the second term. What will he be doing after that? probably will try to become Obama of CHina, huh?
So my advice to all is to have LS work for our community for sometime first as may be chithus or representative and in that way he will get a real hands on experience.
let me remind you , my friend: When LS was asked about his experience (Nyamnyong)— his answer was i know how to manage (Ngas Shes-ki yoe). The last time i check there is a huge difference between Nyamnyong and Shes ki Yoe.
Ls needs more experience.
So, old monk. Degree is just a piece of paper. Thats why, most of the world leaders didn’t have a phd degree rather they have experience. In terms of knowledge and experience Tethong is the man. After all, Tethong is a distinguish teacher at the famous Standford university whose standing is almost equivalent to Harvard Unversity.
BE informed,
Your;s Agu
Jamyang la,
Why are you trying to block my posting. Whatever i said here is a statement of fact. Most of us being tibetan GOvt. servant knows about the authenticity of these statement.
I know those stories first hand. My dad is Utsang and my Mom is Khampa and we have special connection to Juchen through my cousing Ugen Topgyal.
But my dad’s mom is a Nangchenwa and they have rivalry between dege in our part of BIR and Chauntra.
It makes me so sad when people question Tenzin Namgyal Tethong’s educational qualifications or lack of it thereof. Average Tenzin is so right, Tenzin Tethong is one of those who served the TGIE when there was a dire shortage of English educated officers, and some had to be drafted out of college for the purpose. He has sacrificed his future for the future of Tibet and was one of the officers who had to make do on a very miniscule salary and some of them could not even pay for all the three meals at the staff mess. Some skipped lunch or dinner because of it. So please please stop and instead laud him for his sacrifice! It is due to the collective sacrifices made by the likes of him and some old ‘Kudraks’ (yes Kudraks!) that later some students from the Tibetan refugee schools could strut around with degrees from US Ivy league colleges!
It is clear that LS is ambitious, go getter who will stop at nothing to get the katri post. his strategy is like the communist style- mao tse tungs style of brainwashing the youth. it is so sinister that i cant think of it..we dont want someone who wants to be the top most guy no matter what. even if it means selling yourself to the chinese. i heard him talk on voa about a similar thing. he mentioned a minority who reached a very top position in the communist party. so guys, you know where he is aiming…
Aku Tompa, you are right this guy LS did not become editor of Harvard Human Rights Journal as he claimed to Prof Carlson. You can check on internet on archives of the Journal for all editors and staff past and present. LS is not even mentioned. He is the BULLSHITTER OF BULLSHITTERS.
ONE of LS 15cent army said that LS will get Noble prize in future. He desrves Nolbe prize for Bullshitting.
Sorry guys, this Nobel prize mention was in the comment on previous article by Jn-la. Here is comment by LS crazy supporter opttimist.
102 OPTIMIST | OCTOBER 24TH, 2010 | 11:53 AM
i seriously believe LS will win a Nobel Peace Prize within 15 years from now if he wins premiership, and reconcile prc and tibetan nation for a com0mon good. Look at the trend, Dalai Lama, obama, recent lui xiabo. there’s 80% chance, seriously.
i think LS is no small, or shallow man, but a deep one with 30 year’s plan ahead of him. it seems he’s all the route maps laid out a decade back.
Aku Tonpa,
You must be a frustrated member of the new Chugang!!I wont defend Juchen since i dont like him either!! But most Khampas support Old Chugang but this has nothing to do with Juchen. These are two fifferent things
Khampa, Amdo, Utsang, Nyingma, Kargue, Gelug, Sakya. Am I missing something? I think of myself as a Tibetan. I hope regionalism and sectarianism are not so important that people are willing to sabotage the goal Rangzen.
Don’t you guys really think LS stands chance of a Nobel Prize if he brings a solution of compromise to the Sino-Tibetan issue? Very possible.
By the way, LS is of right age for a premiership. he’s 50. John f. kennedy had it at 42. David camaroon at 43. God, why tibetans still haven’t got over senility-factor?
watch out: tethong’s silence is his campaign technique, guys. That way he’ll earn the title of ” profound,honest, humble guy with few words and big action” while, in parallism, LS is portrayed as ” the loud, arrogant new comer”. Tethong’s strategy is working well, considering how you guys are all hystarically waka waka over him after Supreme Court Judge, JN’s endorsement( ” tethong…my cousin”).
I thought Tethong is the one who answered that’s one of the reasons I know more about his thoughts than the rest of the others.
Here:
http://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/project-updates/thektcandidatesrespond
Thanks to LS folks who brought up the issue of prospect for LS of getting Nobel peace prize in future. Among the many common words that LS’s confidants shared, the three word that is coming into play now are: “Elitist” “Kudrak” and ” Nobel peace prize.”
You can see how his campaign manager disguises himself as pseudo-journalist and ask “Ten Questions,” and later accuses others as “Elitist relic .”
One of his confidant told few of us between drinks that LS ensnared Palden Gyasto-la by telling him that he as a shot at Nobel peace prize. Palden Gyatso -la is reported to have expressed this LS inspired aspiration to few trusted Tibetans. I will agree in advance that there is no sin in inspiring anyone,if it is well-intentioned. But LS supporters can always say, it is meant as a playful “JOKE.”
Don’t get surprised there will be more such jokes. After all, the very sacred Tibetan cause is now being dished in the form of “JOKE.” Tethong may not have a Harvard degree or for that matter any college degree, but anyone can be assured that he has never made light of the seriousness of Tibetan issues and you will never find him Joking about the life and death issues of Tibetan nation.
How many of well-intentioned young Tibetans’ primary vote has now become a big Joke. Is there a redemption for them ? Yes, if they remember to vote for a candidate who will neither make jokes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama nor entertain His Holiness with not very funny jokes on March 20th. Stay focused. There is nothing joking about it.
Dear Bloggers,
The TPR aricle is an assumption driven article However, watch out for LS, who joking said “he wants to become Obama of China”. Though it may be a joke or seems like a joke, there is a triggering point in his brain, consciously or unconsouly, made him express the point. Our job is to analyse and relate this statement with his past work, history and statements. TPR is trying yo relate LS statement with one of his past statement that has a very close link. It also seems like he stretch the policy of tibet integration at some forum. I can deduces two possibilites, either he is naive and speaks from heart, without giving much though and without clear political stand, or there is a triggering point. Both are not good for me.
I wanted to learn one thing from our chinese friend. I have heard that chinese official prepare everthing meticulously and leave nothing for chance. Even if they smile at you, they have planned for it well in advance. We should scrutinize LS statement more closely.
t c legotsang,
jamyang norbu is not a title nor institution nor some chief judge IN A TIBETAN SUPREME COURT who is required by law to dispense justice equally nor is he bound by any custom or dogma to please every one equally. it is not a question of justice or likes or dislikes at all. the question is of priority. it is simply his choice and it gets all the way better when he supports his stand coherently. he is an individual and he has every right to endorse or not endorse any one. keep the expectation within limits.
who is your candidate?
lobsang is good in many ways but to this day, he has failed to convince me that deep down he is a rangzen bazooka. i am not talking about ”desire” here which even the yaks and sheep of tibet would have it from day one with their daily fodder reduced, hungry and starving, witnessing the desertification of the plateau for 6 decades now, all due to the lack of freedom which is guaranteed by INDEPENDENCE and DEMOCRACY.
Sorry, for all intents and purposes, Ngabo should get the Nobel Prize first. Afterall, didn’t he avoid bloodshed between Tibet and China? If we have more leaders like Ngabo in this world, we can all avoid a lot of problems and live equally under Tyranny and oppression. What a wonderful life it would be. sigh…
LS didn’t express his desire for Nobel Peace Prize
to anybody. who would, unless lunatic? That’s simply my educated guess! there’s such a thing has educated guess. MOnk Palden gyatso has nothing to do with Nobel prize thing, nor does LS.
LS can serve 10 years katri, solve sino-tibetan issue of 5-decade-deadlock, then do some more after retirement, and pocket nobel peace prize. we’re hopeful of that.
Optimist la,
Temdrel sangpo sheydrak ray. Ghasu thang
nying thakpa ney thuk je chey.
Your hope will then be turn into a vision which will become a reality with the leadership of an honest hardworking trait of Lobsang sangay la.
A RHYME TO REMIND
This is how I am gonna freeing my Ballad,
And It may sound little shallow when ya follow
Now that’s the truth I think the world should swallow,
But it all happens that the world pretends to lay low
Now before it ever makes you to follow with sorrow.
Just hear me out and this is how it follows
I am from the top of the world and Tibet is our possession
You better don’t call me Chinese or my emotion explosions
Coz we got a vision to see the enemies dispossession
Now try to have patience for the next couple of session
I‘ll take you back to 59 and you gotta envision
You better don’t get emotion but yourself questioned
When nation faced intrusion and where is your passion?
I was put in a school that rules by Maoism,
Taught me nothing but whole crap of communism,
I have to wear a red scarf to show my nationalism.
Though I respect Marxism but don’t force me into politicalism
That even warned me from encouraging sense of separatism,
And that’s when I became a victim of Chinese Barbarism .
We got PLAs out in the street killing , beating and seizing
When Liberation is all we ask for living and breathing
With the 17 points signing they starts partying
And that’s when we starts crying and dying and flying
Flying far away from gun firing and bleeding
To somewhere where I can be schooling and learning
Where education gives information and learning is entertaining
Not just brain washing with political dirt when growing.
Where human right is enjoying respect but not violating
I am from the top of the world and Tibet is our possession
You better don’t call me Chinese or my emotion explosions
Coz we got a vision to see the enemies dispossession
Now try to have patience for the next couple of session
I‘ll take you back to 59 and you gotta envision
You better don’t get emotion but yourself questioned
When nation faced intrusion and where is your passion?
I am now looking at our society with anxiety
All we care about is money, luxury and prosperirity.
National responsibility seems to be secondary and tertiary.
And I know the PRC is pretty happy about our duty and they party.
Now is this the way we pay back for whatever they take away?
Is that the reason why we came down here lay low and gay?
When the lives of patriots are laid but we only say and pray.
When the Chinese continues to prey but we are like so gay
The land we call it our own and grown now has blown
We are gone but shown the world that a refugee is born
Now its time we rise and bind before the world gets blind
And fight for our rights and light the our nation bright
I am not gonna rhyme time to time to remind you this
So you better mind the line every time you rise and shine
Because I am not fine when they say I am a refugee
And I know you feel the same so don’t try to refuse
I am from the top of the world and Tibet is our possession
You better don’t call me Chinese or my emotion explosion,
Coz we got a vision to see the enemies dispossession
Now try to have patience for the next couple of session
I‘ll take you back to 59 and you gotta envision
You better don’t get emotion but yourself questioned
When nation faced intrusion and where is your passion?
I hope the next election will not lost more time like the past, I hope the next election will win with the one who strong support independence and will change the current situation, and will aspiring tibetan make tibetan more actitvity and Self-reliant and more strong and change the image of tibetan that always begging and weaker and refugees.
@ deveno, of course, the vapour of hope will eventually turn into water of reality. I believe LS will make it.
The hope of Lobsang sangay pocketing nobel peace prize seems plausible. But he’s a long way to go. His springboard will be the premiership in the exile government, and from there, the ball will roll into the Norwegian court.
Oh God, such is the silly, inane, ridiculous, childish and idiotic mentality of all the Lobsang Sangay supporters. Noble Prize cannot be procured with the help of Chodak of office of Tibet like LS got the seat at Harvard with his hook and help. I think even if LS wins the Katri race, he will surely be impeached after a year or two.
I feel like everyone here not really think about our future to deal with China and to gain our freedom, simply talked so much bullshits with bias mentality to darken up Dr,Lobsang Sangay’s hope for Kalon Tripa seat.
I mean this all started with JN’s bias article threw away LS to the deepest hell and will never get up again to face supporters, at same time he was trying to promote his relative Mr,Tethong la for the highest seat. We all know he got the chance and he gave it up and ran after US dollars claiming a family problem or kids need to go to US colleges.All those are bull shit too.
And now we are put back him on seat?
As far as experience concerned LS is very talented and highly educated on law and he has been involved Tibetan issue Since he was in India before move to US. He is traveling around world give talks about law and political, specifically on Asian politic. Dr.LS’intellectuality is so rich on China.
I don’t think we can find a better Candidate than Dr.LS.
I read some people said Lobsang Sangay only go around different communities talk and talk no action. That is so stupid thing to say. Talk is action, without talk there can’t be an action that result better. Moreover in order to talk the person needs to know what he was talking that is depend how much he knows and how much education he or she got.
Dr.LS is very out spoke and smart, He really knows what he is talking about.
I have been watch all the video clips Kalon Tripa debates. Most of candidates are not be able to answer all the questions without lost the points but Lobsang Sangay la is always answer all the questions single pointedly.
I am not going to change my vote. I once again ask all brothers and sister if you changed you mind after such ill article, Please re-consider because this is our chance to bring change in our history and farther step one more toward real democracy.
thanks
Choni,
For your information, nobody wants to pull the legs of Lobsang Sangay lak. But as an upcoming Katri candidate, everybody has the right to scrutinize and ask questions which concerns all the Tibetans and especially as a voter, our job is to get to know the person and his policy before casting our vote. So far many of the people don’t have much idea, who they are voting for and what is his background in terms of education, experience, ability and so on. It’s important one knows one’s candidate otherwise we have certain individuals, who took the common man’s weakness into their hands and put the name of the person of their own liking on the paper. Still I believe such thing exist in our society.
Since you are one of the voters for Lobsang Sangay Lak. What sort of change you are expecting from him if he became our main guy in terms of overall development and especially regarding the fate of Tibet? R u not too optimistic to depend on someone whose achievement so far is just average and whose credential as a candidate for Katri is losing the favour of many because of his outspokenness, touching the sensitive issue at will without any concern for the Tibetan people’s feeling.
Give me only one accomplishment of this man called Lobsang Sangay apart from some useless conference, that we as Tibetan can be proud of. He even did not pay his Tibetan Green Book properly which is the single most important yet simplest contribution that any sensible Tibetan can make to our Exile govt. Instead, he used only his big mouth and the Harvard degree to campaign for Kalon Tripa seat. He has done nothing for us Tibetans and he has zero knowledge and experience to run the TGIE. There are tons of people with Oxford, Cambridge, Yale and Harvard PHds, who, apart from their own field of knowledge are good for nothing. Many people in the US with double PHds from Harvard can be hired for $15 an hour. So what is Lobsang Sangay boasting about. In real life and governmental experiences, I can beat him with my MA degree and years of working for the TGIE. So, I would ask all the supporters of LS to withdraw your support and also ask LS to withdraw from this race.
I do not think that any specific conclusion should be drawn from one simply joking statement of Dr losang la, I am confusing that if our people are knowing about the main claim of our issue these days,are we claiming independent?
Definitely,no.what we are claiming is autonomous,then we must knowing that what autonomous exactly mean. autonomous means having the rights to preserve and practice of our cultures and language,and staying within the political frame of China,once we are claiming this status, then whats wrong with Lobsang’s statement? I do not think that has anything wrong with this statement.
TANG NYOM,
dr. lobsang Sangay’s achievements are limitless like the sands of Ganga river, or say, number of your hair. But he doesn’t blow his trumpet about them, we should find out ourselves.
if you can beat LS with your MA, who’s stopping you from katri race? please throw yourself into ring!
You wanted one achievement, well, I am telling you now: he raised a fund of 100,000 rupees for the exile government for various projects.
who said he’s inexperienced? NO NO NO. He’s highly experienced. And, what it takes to be a kalon tripa won’t be experienced through any office of TGIE, as the functions,staffs, procedures are totally different( most of which is managerial.) Experience in any organization has same value. If you can run fast on grass, you can run fast also on cement. the place doesn’t matter much.
so tang nyom, keep those in mind. don’t be suicidal with JN’s initiation!
Jamyang lak’s blog doesn’t have EDIT button to rectify the mistakes. Just wondering where it is located?
OLD MONK,
You have every right to defend your candidate by highlighting his achievement but it is wrong to exaggerate and give false impression. You wrote….
“dr. lobsang Sangay’s achievements are limitless like the sands of Ganga river, or say, number of your hair.”
Who will believe in such a fairy tale?
Pema T.
Count me! count me! i believe in him.
Its not a fairy tale or a work of fiction.
DAVENO,
I am expecting you sniffing your way round Jamyang Norbu’s blog and Phayul Message forum every now and then. Even if I count on you, it will still remain a fairy tale. OLD MONK & DAVENO together wrote,
“dr. lobsang Sangay’s achievements are limitless like the sands of Ganga river, or say, number of your hair.”
Pema T,
But i don’t show up with 20 diff.names.
Let it then be a fairy tale in your world with just you in it.
Old Monk,
it appears to me that you probably seem to have carried away by some of those achievements of LS which for you it turns out to be limitless like the sands of Ganga river, or say, number of hair” well, for me he is a good fund raiser as long as i take the achievement of raising 100,000 rupees for the exile government for various projects in to consideration and it doesn’t constitute a guarantee that a good fund raiser can become the next katri.
besides, consider this as a great privilege and a fortune for LS to have the opportunity to study in Haward Law school and i don’t think a graduation degree from Haward can define future tibet. and its pretty disturbing to see LS boasting around the world with his graduation from Haward Law. it is either Haward failed to educate him with the true meaning of leadership or he didn’t possess it in real sense.
consider this
Also consider those that have received opportunity for higher education in the West like LS, comfortably working in different well- paid occupations.
Did anyone of those have the Semshuk to leave their high paying job to shoulder the responsibilities to look after the well being of the tibetans. I highly doubt it.
They may contribute (positively or these days i see negatives) in their spare time but selfless dedication is not that i have witnessed so far.
Writing a piece here and there can be done by anyone. Selfless dedication, which LS has accepted with humility is pricey.
Anyheew,
Thank you Jamyang norbu la for providing this platform to discuss on various issues and topics.
With this, Aareeyoss!! My brothers and sisters!
daveno is right. The bottom line is: how many fulbright scholars are returning to serve the commu nity after their studies? they are all well-settled in the land of green pasture. LS is sacrificing.
what tethong has done at his age in TGIE, LS will do now. simple as that.
I think Aka Nagtok (not Aku Nagtok), is very much sticking within the context of the Katri debate. He seemed to be rebutting from JN’s first piece on the Katri elections.
Aka Nagtok has opened many chapters, so I will wait for answer/clarifications from JN.
I don’t think Aka Nagtok (I think it would be better spelled Eka Nagtok = The Ace of Spades) has not ignored the good things TNT has done. I am sure many will
join me in thanking TNT for all that he has done and achieved for our community for the last three decades. Now, I would like to request Lobsang Sangay to come
forward to become the next Kalon Tripa and show all that he can do. He needs an opportunity to use all that he as learned and seen, utilize all the knowledge he has gained and all the potential he is. I am sure if he is given a similar chance like TNT got many years ago, by the time LS reaches the age of TNT, he would be very experienced, with huge achievements and probably a Nobel Peace Prize.
His contributions are already quite impressive — academically, politically, socially and diplomatically.
LS has visited many shichaks in the last few years, and when LS said he would visit all the Tibetan shichaks, TNT countered that saying a Katri visiting shichaks would be wasting his time. TNT was booed for that by the audience. LS was applauded for all that he said during the debate, as he was succinct, and things that he would like to work on. TNT didn’t have plans. He said that during the debate. He was booed for that rather than applauded, TNT was greatly embarrassed.
If Lobsang Sangay can become Obama of Tibet, he will be no less than a modern day Songtesen Gampo. Wouldn’t you be happy about a Tibetan ruling the whole of China? It is now interesting to see how TNT campaign party is interpreting Umelam. “A Tibetan Obama of China” will be a possibility within the Umelam setup, or else explain how it is not fitting within the Umelam (Autonomy)
status.
In any case, a Kalon Tripa cannot change or impose his/her ideology as the policy of TGiE. Any change, if needed, will be decided by Chitues (members of parliament). I don’t see any negative point about a Tibetan becoming “Obama of China”. Why JN and the confused editors of TPR are not understanding this.
Ngabo was an illegitimate son of a nun of the Kudrak clan. I do not see a reason to Ngabo a traitor. He rather became a victim of a desperate situation and time. Even if he had signed the 17-point agreement (in 1951), it could have been rejected any time. Why the Lhasa government had to wait until 1959 to dismiss
it?
LS has made it very clear regarding his tax (green book) payment. First he would not get scholarship for college from Sherig without having paid the dues. Second, without the tax payment, a fullbright scholarship would not have been obtained. If the issue is still not clear, here is the way to find out. The Office of Tibet NYC
and the Boston Tibetan community are there to clarify this issue. Call NYC office: +1-212-213-5010 or e-mail: otny@igc.org. Contact Tibetan Association of Boston at:http://www.bostontibet.org/contact.html
LS continuing his studies at Harvard was officially approved. If other fullbright scholars didn’t return as agreed upon to serve for at least two years in TGiE, and if they are causing problems for the future of the fulbright program, it’s not because of LS. This is simple logic. His continuation at Harvard has not curtailed a scholarship. You can find the details from Shering Lekhung. Why spread such a rumour? Sherig phone: +91 1892 222721/222572 or email: tcewfwebmaster@gmail.com.
The Old Monk’s question about why TNT didn’t run for kalon tripa with Samdhong Rinpoche in the last term is very relevant as then TNT was five years younger and more energetic. It’s not opportunist to be running for the post now, right?
LS has been traveling on Yello Book all these years which reflects his sense of patriotism and his wish to return to India to serve in the exile Tibetan community, where the majority of the exile Tibetans live. I heard that TNT has American citizenship. I don’t see anything wrong in that but that’s a fact.
And who was talking about culture, saying LS’ Tibetan is not up to the mark. He gives excellent speeches in Tibetan. His writing may not be great, but he will
have a team of Kalons and assistants who will do the writing works for him anyway. Now, I heard that TNT’s wife is non-Tibetan. How does that help the upkeep of Tibetan culture?
old monk. You are drinking to much old monk. LSinge DID NOT return to serve community after getting Fullbrigt scholarship. He avoided his committment and cheated. he stayed in Boston and took a job as researcher. There is no argument. If returning to be Katri is fulfilling the requirement of Fullbright scholarship . Then all fulbright students can argue in the future that we don’t want to come back to TGIE to be a junior secretary or clerk but we will only come back to become Kalon Tripa.
old Monk,
we are going through the darkest period in our history and the WORD ” SACRIFICE” means alot for all the Tibetans, it takes hell alot to SACRIFICE something for our cause. next time if you happen to post a comment try using some other words like LS is doing, talking,giving speeach, instead of sacrificing. don’t make the word so cheap. gotcha!!!
I do not think that any specific conclusion should not be drawn from one simply joking statement of Dr losang la, I am confusing that if our people are knowing about the main claim of our issue these days,are we claiming independent?
Definitely,no.what we are claiming is autonomous,then we must knowing that what autonomous exactly mean. autonomous means having the rights to preserve and practice of our cultures and language,and staying within the political frame of China,once we are claiming this status, then whats wrong with Lobsang’s statement? I do not think that has anything wrong with this statement.
Bye Daveno with this name and you are going to reincarnate with the next name and then relate all the faulty good things about LS. You and your other incarnate names say anything, anywhere a million times and LS will remain the same Gyami Sowa as he is now with millions of dollars in his pocket and spend lavishly for his campaign including his countless visits to various Tibetan inhabited parts of the world. All the other Kalon Tripa candidates are counting pennies for their campaign which I think is the reality in our society.
Old monk, what is LS sacrificing??? You Kukpa, he is getting millions from other sources. All the respected Kushos and Lamas of Dhensa Sum and people like you are being fooled beyond your imagination. Please wake up before you lose your moral value. If you are close to LS, speak to him in the face and you will see him in RED.
This is a quote from the article, “….we strongly hope that the Tibetan media will take the investigatory lead in this effort.” The following passages are built on this quote.
I am not here to comment on the merits of this article simply because I am not in a position to express an informed opinion on this topic at this point. But this article does give me a reason to follow closely our aspiring leaders’ work and stance on our cause. I am looking forward to participating in the upcoming Katri election through articles, if time permit, and share my views on the desirable traits of our leader and the direction our struggle should take.
However, the reason why it was tempting for me to leave a brief note here was that the editors of the TPR have hit the very point that I made in my recent article, His Holiness’ public commitment: Should it be honored?, that appeared on my blog http://chosangtendhar.blog.com/ on Oct. 21, 2010. This article is also available in the Phayul’s discussion forum.
The point I made was that an independent and proactive journalism (Tibetan) will serve our community well. However, the slight difference between the editors of the TPR and my point was that, their point came through as if (personal interpretation), metaphorically speaking, the Tibetan media should hunt down Dr. Sangay, while leaving other criminals in the town unmonitored. I would rather like to see the Tibetan media actively engage in all aspects of our exile community’s lives to hold every individual accountable, especially our administrators to strengthen our movement.
The Tibetan media should take upon themselves the responsibility to educate our people on all the issues affecting their lives and ensure that our gullible people that blindly follow our administration do not get taken for a ride.
I am glad that there are intelligent people out there who share my view.
@Chosang
Your application for a financial aid was not entertained by the Private Office and Katri according to you which serves as the pretext for your lengthy lambaste of the TGIE. I understand the difficult situation you are in. Graduate schools in the US are very expensive and there is no way you can pay for it other than being covered by some sort of support/assistantships. And you say that you felt it was more of a public issue than a private one which made you push the button. I am not saying that there isn’t a problem. There is much to desire in every sector not just education; in fact more pressing issues like welfare to the poor Tibetans in exile. However I feel your personal angst was too obvious in the piece and it read more like a personal grievance. You didn’t even have a single positive thing to say about the education policy implemented by the TGIE, what about the TGIE run schools that have provided Tibetans with basic education and the various scholarship programs providing good students with opportunities to pursue higher studies abroad. Moreover I didn’t know that TGIE/Katri even entertains financial pleas. Were you applying for a specific scholarship?
JN la, Tibetans & mostly the youths have great respect for you as a true patriot, a scholar & an intellectual of great stature. However, some of your recent views specially ‘distorted quotes of Prof. Samdhong Rinpoche’s statement in New York & your personal attacks on Dr. Lobsang Singay does not bode well. Our faith & respect in you is ebbing ……
CHOSANG,
Remember, TGIE is in no position to satisfy the wishes of each and every Tibetans and their selfish needs. Generally speaking, you are here for your own needs but you are playing this dirty politics by quoting from the speech of H.H. the Dalai lama, which he gave at TCV a long time back and making the issue as if it concerns all the Tibetans.
Just for a wake up call to you, “ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”
I think Aka Nagtok (not Aku Nagtok), is very much sticking within the context of the Katri debate. He seemed to be rebutting from JN’s first piece on the Katri elections.
Aka Nagtok has opened many chapters, so I will wait for answer/clarifications from JN.
I don’t think Aka Nagtok (I think it would be better spelled Eka Nagtok = The Ace of Spades) has not ignored the good things TNT has done. I am sure many will join me in thanking TNT for all that he has done and achieved for our community for the last three decades. Now, I would like to request Lobsang Sangay to come
forward to become the next Kalon Tripa and show all that he can do. He needs an opportunity to use all that he as learned and seen, utilize all the knowledge he has gained and all the potential he is. I am sure if he is given a similar chance like TNT got many years ago, by the time LS reaches the age of TNT, he would be very experienced, with huge achievements and probably a Nobel Peace Prize.
His contributions are already quite impressive — academically, politically, socially and diplomatically.
LS has visited many shichaks in the last few years, and when LS said he would visit all the Tibetan shichaks, TNT countered that saying a Katri visiting shichaks would be wasting his time. TNT was booed for that by the audience. LS
was applauded for all that he said during the debate, as he was succinct, and things that he would like to work on. TNT didn’t have plans. He said that during the debate. He was booed for that rather than applauded, TNT was greatly
embarrassed.
If Lobsang Sangay can become Obama of Tibet, he will be no less than a modern day Songtesen Gampo. Wouldn’t you be happy about a Tibetan ruling the whole of China? It is now interesting to see how TNT campaign party is interpreting
Umelam. “A Tibetan Obama of China” will be a possibility within the Umelam setup, or else explain how it is not fitting within the Umelam (Autonomy) status.
In any case, a Kalon Tripa cannot change or impose his/her ideology as the policy of TGiE. Any change, if needed, will be decided by Chitues (members of parliament). I don’t see any negative point about a Tibetan becoming “Obama of
China”. Why JN and the confused editors of TPR are not understanding this.
Ngabo was an illegitimate son of a nun of the Kudrak clan. I do not see a reason to Ngabo a traitor. He rather became a victim of a desperate situation and time. Even if he had signed the 17-point agreement (in 1951), it could have been rejected any time. Why the Lhasa government had to wait until 1959 to dismiss
it?
LS has made it very clear regarding his tax (green book) payment. First he would not get scholarship for college from Sherig without having paid the dues. Second, without the tax payment, a fullbright scholarship would not have been obtained. If the issue is still not clear, here is the way to find out. The Office of Tibet NYC and the Boston Tibetan community are there to clarify this issue. Call NYC office: +1-212-213-5010 or e-mail: otny@igc.org. Contact Tibetan Association of Boston at: http://www.bostontibet.org/contact.html
LS continuing his studies at Harvard was officially approved. If other fullbright scholars didn’t return as agreed upon to serve for at least two years in TGiE, and if they are causing problems for the future of the fulbright
program, it’s not because of LS. This is simple logic. His continuation at Harvard has not curtailed a scholarship. You can find the details from Sherig Lekhung. Why spread such a rumour? Sherig phone: +91 1892 222721/222572 or
email: tcewfwebmaster@gmail.com.
The Old Monk’s question about why TNT didn’t run for kalon tripa with Samdhong Rinpoche in the last term is very relevant as then TNT was five years younger and more energetic. It’s not opportunist to be running for the post now, right?
LS has been traveling on Yello Book all these years which reflects his sense of patriotism and his wish to return to India to serve in the exile Tibetan community, where the majority of the exile Tibetans live. I heard that TNT has
American citizenship. I don’t see anything wrong in that but that’s a fact.
And who was talking about culture, saying LS’ Tibetan is not up to the mark. He gives excellent speeches in Tibetan. His writing may not be great, but he will have a team of Kalons and assistants who will do the writing works for him anyway. Now, I heard that TNT’s wife is non-Tibetan. How does that help the upkeep of Tibetan culture?
@TChosang,
I helped one Tibetan student win a scholarship in the US, and I haven’t expected any rewards from TGIE.
I worked sincerely for around five years in the TGIE, but never felt ‘I was given a job which could have been done easily by some one else.’
In other words, I took it as a sacred mission, not as a joke or humiliation.
My late father spent his whole life for the cause of Tibet, and when he knew he was dying after cancer bedridden him for months, he removed the one and only small gold ring from his finger and asked my brother to donate it to Kugyer Yigstang…
You have no conscience.
What kind of values did you parents teach you?
Or you are just a carbon copy of them.
Its sad!
@chosang,
Rightly said by Pema T.
“”Just for a wake up call to you, “ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”.””
If i am in your situation,i would use an educated approach and ask those in our community who are currently working towards Phd as they might offer some helpful tips.Investigate and you should be able to find them in few days.
Sad to see quality of comments on this article here has somewhat deteriorated. A lot of mud-slinging going on here. I find the comments on Phayul on this article much more balanced. Looks like their filteration system is tuned to wead out the junks.
Peace!
Tethong should turn down his American Citizenship if he wishes to run for katri. That’s totally rediculous. Officially, he’s an American. Imagine an American leading our nation. He deserted TGIE for dollars. He deserted six million Tibetans for his couple of children. That’s very borgeoise attitude. All tibetan refugees send their children in TCV or Mussoorie schools, and go to colleges in delhi or banglore, where scholarship is provided. It’s not necessariy to send children to usa or uk.
tethong is an opportunist, with one foot dipped in security: kids in usa, american citizenship, non-Tibetan wife. Now that he got everything materially, he’s coming back to TGIE to garner some power.
Anyway, answer this question again: why tethong didn’t run for katri race with samdhong when he’s younger? why did he suddenly wake up? Now he’s too old. And it’s against the wishes of Dalai Lama who always reiterated his desire to have a young, energetic, modern-educated leader with a sense of initiative( rather than saying” dalai lama knows and does everything sort of guy like tething and other TGIE folks). His Holiness needs a can-do, confident sort of individual like LS.
according to TIBETAN CHARTER, he’s not ALLOWED TO STAND FOR KATRI, when he’s RESIGNED before. we can’t afford to breach our own sacred charter.
Hello Rinzing, PemaT, Heretoday gone tomorrow, and Thenorbu…have some decency in respecting the sanctity of someone else space. Let’s not contaminate this space by posting comments not related to the article.
If you have comments related to my article, hop on to my blog and feel free to post your comments there and let the world see, particularly the members of our community about the discussion taking place on my article. Such discussions are good way to show the world our culture, mentality, attitude, and competency level.
TETHONG LOBSANG SANGAY
1. American Citizenship IC( yellow book)
2. aristocrat self-made commoner
3. class 12 graduate harvard Phd( law)
4. old young
5.Good follower type Good leader type
6. reclusive,arrogant frank, humble
7. conservative reformer
8. oratory skills-okay excellent
9. IQ= ordinary IQ= excellent
10. published work NIL excellent
11. physical appeal=good impressive
Yo Chosang!
You brought this crap here.
“”Hello Rinzing, PemaT, Heretoday gone tomorrow, and Thenorbu…have some decency in respecting the sanctity of someone else space. Let’s not contaminate this space by posting comments not related to the article. “”
chosang lak,
i understand that you’re caught up in tough waves. Our leadership is infested with corruption, lethargy, stagnation, and lack of real zeal for progress. I understand that your case reflect the true picture of the mechanism of our administrative system. However, I see a hope when this antiquated parliament and cabinet and prime minister undergo an overhaul with the new election in 2011. Our old leaders are pathetically removed from the common masses, prefering to keep an aura of distance, much in the fashion of olden custom of aristocrats. They don’t reply letters. They are too important for such trivial things, they feel.
A Tibetan friend of mine has written an email to British Parliament, House of Commons, about funding for higher studies. And he received reply within days, on a premium quality yellow official paper rather than email, to his address, expressing concern for his predicament, and solidarity to Tibetan refugees as a whole. The letter went on to give the list of universities where he would find scholarship. well, though he didn’t receive any funding per se, their response, despite being a foreign government, was humanely touching. Frankly, Samdhong Rinpoche’s arrogance in snubbing your application out was a civil offence, let alone an act of irresponsibility.
Nevertheless, when youngsters like Dr. Lobsang Sangay wins the katri chair, I am sure the old bureaucracy will be smashed to create a transparent, energetic, accountable government, where greviences of people will be heard. And no little man will be snubbed out. There’ll be common touch. So i suggest you apply for aid again when the new leadership takes on. And never lose hope. We need Phds. We need people like you. TGIE scholarship programs are a battalion of curruption, from class 10 UWC scholarships to class 12 engineering and doctors scholarships to Fulbright scholarships. but wind of change will soon come. don’t lose hope. let’s vote for lobsang sangay for change.
Why are LS cult followers like Old monk and others not shamed of telling lies. LS doesnt travel on Tibetan refugee papers or Indian Yellow IC. How do you think he travelled to China. You go to China if you accept overseas Chinese document from Chinese embassy, or you travel on American passport. If LS told you follwers he travels on Yellow book he is lying, and you followers are too stupid to see that he is lying.
Also he did not fulfill condition of Fulbright scholarhsip and return to serve in TGIE. If he only wants to return now to serve as Kalon Tripa, then all other fulbiright students have a very good excuse in future. We have to make all of them kalon tripas so that they will return to serve in TGIE.
Thats how stupid you LS cult followers are. You cant’ even see this 420 trick LS is pulling on you.
OLD MONK,
Always remember writing here and putting it into action are two distinct things. You are trying to put us into Harry Porter’s world, where the miracles happen every now and then.
Even if Lobsang lak win the Katri race, I see no dramatic change happening around us and the most importantly in the cause of our struggle for Tibet. Although I am wishing for a miracle to happen but it will not come unless and until we give full support to our government and stop measuring government achievement based on one’s selfish needs.
Lobsang lak as a young candidate will be keen to explore many things, but as a newcomer to the job, and coupled with lack of resources and man power, it will be hard time for him knowing the realities. Can we expect some miracles from Lobsang lak if he win the Katri post as OLD MONK in his state of drunkenness jot here.
It’s true, we need a change but what sort of change we are looking for?
I suppose LS has a Indian passport as well as Chinese passport! Thats worst than american passport.
If Tibetan American can’t run for katri, then why TGIE ask for greenbook money from us? By the way, who said, Tibetan American cannot run for Katri besides “Old Monk” and Juchen Thupten.
The only reason i way Juchen is because the last time i heard about Tethong’s citizen issue is from my uncle, Ugen Topgyal, and i am positive he was told my his political guru, Juchen Thupten. He usually doesn’t have any thought from his brain.
FYI, I am not a member of disgruntled new Chushi Gangdruk. At younger age i pretended to be Khampa to be among my maternal Khampa tribe.
Now, I am trying to forget about Khampaness and dirty politics. Let me be Tibetan first and speak for the truth and support who are truthful.
Who ever you vote next time, LS will never be my Katri. Be careful.
Yours AGU
I saw an interesting point in Pema T’s latest comment. He says that Dr. Sangay will have tough time dealing with realities such as, a lack of man power (to support him), among others. The last time I checked, I thought he said that those pursing advanced degrees are doing so to fulfill their selfish needs and that they do not deserve the community’s support? Make up your mind which you want to go. You cannot use a double edged sword like a loser. This is a world of internet, world wide web. Everyone in the world can read our discourse. Let’s not show the world that Tibetans are a bunch of losers who cannot make two consistent statements.
Till now, I have been thinking myself to remain as an exile throughout my life, but now I wonder I should also seek American/Canadian/Chinese/Indian passports!
IC SUCKS!
Lobsang Sangay’s wife is an aristocrat from the Shakjang family.
Kalsang Phuntsok is being elitist in his view of the general public who comment here. You may not like the assumptions behind so many comments and their language skills may fall far short of the minimum required to be communicable, but, but this is a new world, where everyone is in the ring to vent their feelings. You cannot allow some and deprive others of their right to free speech.
Phayul’s policy of filtering the comments of those who visit the site is tantamount to censorship. The Chinese and other totalitarian regimes resort to this. We Tibetans have in the far recessess of our mind the urge to be squeamish. We are afraid, ashamed and a bit witless when faced with situations we are not accustomed to.
Kalsang Phuntsok is being elitist in his view of the general public who comment here. You may not like the assumptions behind so many comments and their language skills may fall far short of the minimum required to be communicable, but, but this is a new world, where everyone is in the ring to vent their feelings. You cannot allow some and deprive others of their right to free speech.
Phayul’s policy of filtering the comments of those who visit the site is tantamount to censorship. The Chinese and other totalitarian regimes resort to this. We Tibetans have in the far recessess of our mind the urge to be squeamish. We are afraid, ashamed and a bit witless when faced with situations we are not accustomed to.
ic sucks, chinese passport sucks even more!
CHOSANG,
We have nothing to lose as long as person like you mind your own business and stop interfering in exile politics with your dirty game. And I’ve never talked about those people as specified by you. You wrote…
“I thought he said that those pursing advanced degrees are doing so to fulfill their selfish needs”
And your indignity is very much evident here as you go on making a mockery of your own thought on my comments and accuse me of being inconsistent in my writings. I never thought as a person with some education, you will resort to such tactics of vilifying others.
Chosang, I am slowly losing interest in your comments as you are only good at making up the stories for the sake of promoting your own selfish interest.
Aku Tonpa,
Its obvious you have an axe to grind with Juchen Thupten. But your uncle Ugen Topgyal is the biggest chamcha of Juchen Thupten. He has a lot to gain out of it than Juchen thupten. else why would he support Lobsang Sangay when he has his own family member, Dolma Gyari through marriage to support. Because he didnt want to be left behind in case Lobsang Sangay wins. Poor Dolma Gyari. but dont worry, there may be some deal for her. As long you there are ugen topgyals there will be Juchen thuptens. sorry, your uncle is stuck with him.
This is the first time any one has called me an elite. Feels kind of strange, not in a bad way though. Given my economic situation, I highly doubt any one can appropriate that title to me.
Any way, the reason I made that comment was that I am seeing an upsurge of commentators (many new ones to my knowledge) on this blog who have sort of hijacked this blog to vent out their personal grievances or grudges against the candidates and resorted to making allegations without any base of evidences. Most commentator here seem to be relying on rumors and innuendos to sling mud against the candidates they don’t like. Now I am not saying I know what is true and rumor and mere allegations so and so forth, but I think one should refrain from making allegations without good evidence and full knowledge of the matter, specially when it relates to personal matters of the candidates.
Having said that I think the questions about L.Sangay’s travel to China (If it is true he travelled there) is very important. And I would like to hear his response.
Chosang,
I was pretty impressed when going through your “decided-to-go-public” article. I was even more impressed with the way you presented your argument which for me it was based exclusively on the link between His Holiness , Katri , and Exile Administraion and of course your Goddamn Ph. D which I think it is the least contributing factor to your conflict. You are kinda mixing everything up, aren’t ya? you are nothing more than one of those graceless ass in our society who after so many years of education through His Holiness and the TGIE , now trying to encourage division among the later two just because you want to do your Ph. D in US. It’s a dangerous chemistry you have produced in your articles and you better watch it next time when you try to associate the name of His Holiness to your Ph. D. Your application was denied and its pretty clear to you to understand or to be in a position to understand that you are a man with great knowledge and experience and you have come this far to do your Ph. D, now it’s a step away from you and if you are a man, don’t ask but do something to go get and earn it. I know you can if you have still have this strong will presented in your article to achieve your goal. My question is who is your target, His Holiness, Katri or the TGIE?
97 contd…
It is important to note that neither the TPR piece above and JN la’s critique of LS’ candidacy seem to raise the questions about circumstances surrounding LS’s alleged travel to China. If it is a mere allegation and fabrication of truth by those who have raised this question then I cannot help but wonder if the objective of these commentators are to instill fear that LS is a Manchurian Candidate of CCP. Which in my opinion is a very dirty trick.
Mr. Tenzin Phuntsok, hop on to my blog and you can vent your anger all you want. Let’s not post any comment here that is not related, directly or indirectly to the article of the TPR.
chosang
FYI i am not angry at anything rather i am sad having visited your blog and been through your article and i decided not to be sad again.
Kalsang phuntsok, LS not only travelled to China but he admiited that he did so in 2005 becos of a question in TPR check:Question on Lobsang Sangay’s Travel to China / Response by Lobsang Sangay.
The only quesiton is did he travel on Tibetan refugee Yellow Book, as his followers have claimed earlier. China has not allowed any Tibetan into Tibet or China there on Yellow Book. So if LS only travels on Yellow Book, the Chinese treated him very sepcail reasons. Or LS and followers are not being truthful about him traveling on Yellow b ook and not having US passport.
Pasang,
Thank you for pointing me to the TPR site. I was able to find LS’ answer to a reader’s question. Strangely LS doesn’t seem to mention this little but important fact anywhere on his website http://www.kalontripafortibet.org/
This is a very important question and I wonder why TPR and JN la didn’t bother to ask this question directly to LS.
intelectually bent guys,
debate is very enriching provided 5 rules are observed.
1. take a deep breath and exit the baser emotions for a while
2. avoid making personal attacks
3. no sarcasm
4. do not appeal to inappropriate authority or cleverness just to win the arguement
5. debate on the issue at hand as objectively as possible with supporting examples or quotations 6. never forget the first 5 rules!
if you dont want to do degree for various reasons,one of which is the requirement to complete even those classes you dont really like but should you want to do only those classes you have passion, and that you want to see growth and development in your all round personality and LEADERSHIP SKILLS, you may think about the options below.
since you are working and you dont have much time, just do 3 credits per session(one time 3 hour class per week). short session is 6 weeks. long session is for 12 weeks. if possible try full time. maintain minimum grade 2.0. it costs little or nothing at any community college (poor man’s haward university) any where in america. sometimes you get paid more just by going to school than by going to full time work. more than some double phd holders making only 28g a year! you can’t complain!
Critical reflection, logic and philosophy, fundamental of speech communication, voice and diction, public speaking, critical thinking, vocabulary enhancement, journalism and the news, persuation and debate, interpersonal communication, phonetics, public relations, social and political philosophy, small group communication, mass media/evolution, introduction to sociology, speech/language/hearing, essential readings, advanced reading, writing, film acting, global politics and many more!
dont worry about assignments or grade! just participate actively in the class! once done, head to your full time work! double checks! you can do that for atleast 5 years! much better than dishwashing $10 per hour. thats it!
phds are great and we need more but remember 11th grader like lhasang tsering can pale an ivy league phd in a blink.
something more is required than a piece of paper from harward for the successful pursuit of our national goals. forethought, preparation and persistence are indispensable to such a success.
GOOD LUCK!
VOTE FOR TETONG–THE ONE WITH EXPERIENCED MARKSMANSHIP!
VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE!
to Gyakhab Rangzen
if you think that vote for tenzin tethong vote for independence you are quite wrong, tenzin tethong is support middle way approach,look to this site http://sify.com/news/exiled-tibetans-debate-with-pm-aspirants-in-dharamsala-news-national-kjmuacbjidb.html
if you dig a little deeper…
with tetong, it’s always independence
and with lobsang, it’s adopting chinese life!
total integration! “final solution!” going against everything we stood for so long…
bit crazy, shocks even the muddle pathers!
now seriously, we have to get away from the sense that we can’t do anything. we have to stop believing we are impotent. why are we dying to participate in our own oppression, all for a political seat?
why do our fuking leaders do this? any amount of rationalization against resisting the repression in any shape or form, will only increase it.
to all tibetan voters should know that tenzin tethong and lobsang sangay are stand for middle way aproach, and any voters who want independence should vote for tseten norbu or kalsang phuntsok, these two candidates clearly and strong support for independence tibet.
FREE TIBET FROM CHINESE GENOCIDE
well said, Gyakyab Rangzen.
Kalsang Phuntsokla, being an elite has very little do with your economic conditions. By extension it is not directly related to class in society as it is generally accepted now. Elitism is and was rampant in all societies, ancient and modern. Elitism from a sociological point of view is about the the urge of the past, near past and present centers of power to thwart the rise of parvenus and nouveauriche from rising, out of the fear that the new comers may displace them in the social pecking order.
America is in fashion now. Let me say something about the Boston Brahmins and the WASP culture of New England and the Eastern Coasts of the US. Most of the Boston Brahmins and those belonging to the WASP community may not be rich in an economic sense, but they have the genteel pride, though living in poverty to think themselves to be above the madding crowd.
WASP as the participants to this blog may know stands for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
Highly learned scholars like lobsang sangay will change the world in a year. And TGIE is a small ball to handle in the talent of such distinguished man as him,whose past glory shines like the sun,and whose future visions gleam like light of diamonds. And whose contribution to humanity will be rewarded by a Nobel Prize.
He will seize ideas through the net of rationality, and let his reforms run through the field of public interest. He will make our freedom shine through the hills of Tibet. His enormous compassion and skills have secured many Sino-Tibetan conference in Harvard where our revered leader HH the 14th Dalai Lama graced the event. That would explicitly mean the sign of his past positive karma that made face-to-face interaction with a Boddhisatva possible. And such a man of holy fortune must lead the land of snows under the sacred guidance of Oracles, God, and Lord Buddha.
May the sun of Bhuddhism shine throgh the valleys of Tibet once again. Long live His Holiness. LS is a highly religious, humble man committed to the service of the nation,holding IC,like you and me. SAVE TIBET,VOTE FOR LS!
Old Monk, you are probably right. LS must have been foreordained by some oracles at the very least as I am made to understand that most of the monks are voting for him. If that is the case, then the divine right to veto any subsequent feeble attempts from the civil side is most definite and foretold. It must be so and therefore it shall be so.
Old Monk,
I will provide you some help. For all the things you said to come true, you better start do the following:
Start spreading propaganda, (like LS-Obama classmate thing, )that LS is, in fact a re-incarnate lama. After all, all along he has been comparing himself to the image of Gyari Rinpoche at every opportunity.(Like Gyari, I am also Khampa. Like Gyari, my family also fought Chinese. Like Gyari, I am also…)
After bestowing this recognition, set up a committee to organize long life prayers for LS. In fact, there are monks in Mundgod who are already talking of organizing long life prayers for LS. Origin of this idea : Kusho Bagdo, the crazy angry monk roaming the streets of Dharamsala chasing every Injis.
Also don’t forget to design a fancy spiritual head for LS and make sure it not just fits his head but also his inflated ego. Need design idea, ask Lobsang Wangyal(LW)of Miss Tibet Beauty pageant.
In short, old monk keep writing. You are very entertaining.
No rational person can deny the fact that Dr. Lobsang Senge la is a legal expert. And at the same time we don’t know his political views. According to the above editorial artilce, it seems that Dr L.S is considering further concession from present middle path. That is simply unacceptable. If Dr. L.S fails to make his political stance very clear, we should not risk giving vote to him.
Furthermore, since he never worked in Gangchen Kyishong, we must rethink over voting him to Kalon Tripa’s seat. Yes, we must give him chance. But giving top seat of our government to him as a kind of chance means we are too naive. We must reconsider our decision to vote Dr. Lobsang Senge lak.
Old monk is certainly absorbed in his own fantasy world and now takes the spiritual side to woo people to vote for Lobsang Sangay. If there is so called “Divine help” then why we wouldn’t have the opportunity to witness it so far?
For someone like H.H. The Dalai Lama (The Buddha of compassion), it took 50 long years and still we are searching for a mutual solution. It is more intelligent if the supporters of Lobsang lak, highlight his achievement instead of making him pious and a man of fiction.
Any pronouncement by the experts”above” from opposing parties on the field of leadership for Katri against OLD MONK belief system , will do nothing but reinforce his distrust towards them.
His belief seems very strong that nothing can shake it without a paradigm shift.
I suggest performing “jensey” fire rituals and Torma offering to reduce the intensity of the belief.
May be offer a ‘Bhordo’ partner,but this may disturb a quiet night for the community.
Aku Tonpa,
Please could you Stop that WHINING.
You above all people should know that your uncle and his relative /alliance are the originators of all this ‘Bihar’ politics. This is corrupting the simpler settlement people who think this is the norm.
So far all you have contributed to this discussion is juvenile ‘mischief making’.
Is Old monk = Lobsang Sangay?
All the supporters of LS la. Can you guys please educate me on some real life achievements of LS la which has helped the poor people in the settlements. I am one of them and I inspite of being a registered voter didn’t vote in the prelims because I was confused. Browsing the internet, I saw many achievements of Tethong, clarifications to misunderstandings etc. but I still want to vote LS la if you guys could give me a few simple answers to my concerns: 1. Is is right that LS la went to Beijing 2 times on IC? 2. Is it true that LS la paid unemployed dues to for Green Book inspite of working at Harvard full time as some people accuse? Some say he didn’t return after completing Fulbright with connections to some officials at the Sherig Lekhung to get the waiver?
Please answer these questions for me and similar other people to vote for LS la. I like LS la but putting him on the alter without much substance only drags him down which I don’t want to see.Thanks.
Old monk is an anti-monk! He/she is in disguise to create some images to his intented target!
Is Mila Rangzen= JN? Tenpa Gapshi= Tethong?
Is OLD MONK=LOBSANG SANGYE????????????????
HI Jamyang la I Hope you already got below web address.
http://sites.google.com/site/legalmaterialsontibet/home/photographs
Mila Rangzen and Tenpa Gapshi are 8 year old kids before Jamyang Norbu and Tetong, so don’t compare but old monk and lobsang sangay are of equal mental calibre. 8th grader! tsk! tsk!
Heyyyyy wait a minute. Oh yeah, it is true. 😛
There’s nothing great or special about Lobsang Sangey la. He was easily admitted into Harward Law School because of our dedicated Tibetan exile government helps and scholarship. And undoubtedly, it’s not because of his achievements or anything. As I said he just got into Harward for the sake of our Tibetan exile government and he should always keep that in mind and be grateful rather than acting as if you are really good. Please Lobsang Sangey la, stop comparing yourself with President Obama. You are not there yet at all.. Sorry to say that but that’s the ultimate truth whether you like it or not. Literally, you have given the opportunity and be thankful to our Exile government. I’m advising to stop being stupid by bringing up a statement of “Obama of China”..
You are inexperienced and you gotta know what’s going on than being a bookworm.
CCS,
yes thats rite. there is really nothing special about his personality, national goals, achievements, contributions, policies etc i am not trying to put him down, he seems a nice guy, but since he is a candidate and i think it’s only natural that i can pronounce my observations however sweet or sour it may be without being misunderstood, not that i care but…
but remember common uneducated folks who form the majority in our world are charmed by his ari harward phd, youth and being a commoner or non kudrak. until and unless we make some interesting moves on the ground after the prelim nomination is out to rally public opinion in favour of tetong, lobsang will win very easily with 75% of the votes. yes he is that popular in shichak and monasteries! it will make me very sad and worried to see tgie for 10 years in the hands of lobsang who is pretty much dying to adopt chinese life for a seat and a name in history with his total integration policies. so i on my part will do my best to stir the flow of 2000 votes in my kollegal shichak in the direction of tetong, self determination and independence! it will be a huge challenge to drive reason home when my own village folks go “vote for a non kudrak young educated man” but i will strike hard so the fire of reason burns in their forhead permanently.
what about you?
so what has TN got that LS hasn’t? Only age! Few more wrinkles, and old-school sort of antiquated mentality, a typical product of a man who only has a high school diploma, who has no notable insight into the intricacy of corporate, hunger-driven world of politics.
And experience factor. I discussed the relevance of experience factor for a prime ministral candidate with my university professor of political science. They didn’t rate experience as a great attribute, but on natural wisdom, emotional stability, political education, personal charisma and authority, broad-mindedness, presence of mind. LS has most of them. surely professors, who live on their decade long researches, know better than we little man of big noise and no substance. i rest my case.
OLD MONK,
The more you jot something on LS being the main factor, the more i feel less subjugated by your power of unknown reasoning. Truthfully, as a Tibetan with an average know how of modern life, I for one feel shame to see only the “Wrinkles & OLd age” being the talking point. I am hearing this person Lobsang Sangay for the first time. !!
Lets look at what he does rather than what he says?
pema T, first let’s hear what he says about future.
then let’s see what he ” does” when given a chance to prove himself.
Old (retarded) Monk!
Even if we give LS a chance, he can do nothing better than an 8th grader.
the question of what TN got that LS hasn’t, has arise due to total lack of information. it is something like we eat rice and dal and don’t care atall about the farmer who sweat on it.
Tethong la has a calm and matured outlook with dynamic and energetic approach. He is constantly on move to serve our community, and he has produced some of most valuable outcome in his 30yr of service, which we cherish today. He has stand firm on his principles and (unlike others) he is a man of word.
@ OLDMONK
let me ask you a question. If your father served tib society efficiently for 3decades, sacrificing his youth and livelihood. at the end, the same society tagged him “KUMA”.
Moreover disregard his achievements and compare with novice.
is that fair.
to Gyakhab Rangzen
and all tibetans who support independence, why they are support tenzin tethong? becouse jamyang norbu support tethong? tenzin tethong is not support INDEPENDENCE he like lobsang sangay support MIDDLE WAY, I don’t no why tibetan so much debate about lobsang and tethong, the fact that there are The two sides of same coin! and then I don’t why the rangzen pathers not support kalsang phuntsok who publicly and very clearly support INDEPENDENCE not like tethong.
VOTE FOR GODRUKPA
VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE
godrukpa vowed to be a middle way bhikshu at a dhasa meeting with polas n molas as witnesses. also he has no fan flowing. chances of him winning is slim to none. tetong with self- determination is the best horse to bet on. i do like godruk’s sharp tongue and fire brand leadership.
We have heard enough of the same arguments from both sides and a new one now from Godrukpa.
We do not want to know what your candidate did and what your candidate could possibly achieve with past experiences or the education or qualities he carries under his belt.
We want to know the list of goals and why he has selected those goals and the time period he needs to achieve those goals.
Majority of the voters in exile are second generation Tibetan, born outside Tibet. This particular generation has received modern education and thus their understanding in terms of Global economic, political and social environment is much better than our Popo la and Momo la.
As such, it is futile for anyone to think of some of the obscene and absurd political moves we observe around the world in our Kalon Tripa election process. And such move will jeopardize the image or the brand of that candidate.
old monk @131
So you’re saying that Lobsang Sangay has the insight into the intricacy of power drven hunger in the world of politics. are you suggesting that he is that hunger driven for power? You have listed him a self made commoner. i want to ask is he a self made commoner with integrity ? that would be an unbeatable combination. IF he is a self made man with no integrity then he is a hustler. We dont want that for a Kalon Tripa. We want someone who the chithues and people respect and advise, not someone with who they can make deals and compromises to remain in power forever and take us down bihar laloo politics. old monk pls convince me otherwise.
to Gyakhab Rangzen
“godrukpa vowed to be a middle way” this is totaly wrong and baseless, kalsang phuntsok is strong support independence and he very famouse about that, godrukpa not only oppose middle way he oppose sino-tibetan dialogue, that was written in godrukpa campaign website on this http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4fgVdT7Ml_QJ:www.peopleskalontripa.com/+site:peopleskalontripa.com+dialogue+failed&cd=1&hl=ar&ct=clnk
even you can search in tibetan political review website written that kalsang phuntsok want to change current approach MIDDLE WAY in TGIE.
the abstract is to all tibetan who support independence vote for godrukpa, that he clearly always support independence.
So many users in the forum are talking about the up coming Katri and their stand on Tibet. It is as if, the would be Silon have the power to make major decision without taking into consideration the majority of the Tibetans and their say on the matter.
Even if someone like Godrukpa stands for independence, what is so big about it?
The foggy ignorance of Lobsang Sangy supporters have brought huge shame on their unfairly praised candidate by comparing him with Obama who has already attacked by failure of weakness in his political ability to perform its nation policy,in return Mr lobsang sagy will surely bring unavoidable big shame on his supporters much sooner then Obama because Obama has earned fair enough political experiences by being a Sanater for almost ten years,unfortunately his big promises made him failed in such a short time as a president. To cut it short, we say that similar fate or destiny is ahead awaiting Mr Lobsang sangye,there will be cure if he become Kolontripa
1234
thats wat his supporters say on their website for godrukpa. instead it should come out directly from his mouth on the website. make no holes to wiggle through! most of the people kind of lost confidence in him when people’s mass movement in delhi 2007 headed by him failed to last a single day! no ifs n buts. but i do see him as a passionate eloquent leader so i got him on kalontripa.org with 26 signatures of supporters. if you have the guts and know-how to exploit the positive regional sentiments of toepas, ngaripas and tsangpas there may be some chances for him. other than that i see no light for him.
well, we talked a lot about their personalities which is good and necessary but now lets move to their policies on our
ultimate cause, education, economy, jobs, culture, emigration to west, agriculture, religion, health, security, international relations, election process, democratization, secularization, party system, parlimentary reforms, constitutional changes, animal husbandry and sweater business.
At this time around, I think we should leave the stage to the candidates to at least feel proud of themselves that they are standing in the election and ready to serve the Tibetan masses – whether they win or loose, they have the guts.
we tibetans are no fool. i m sure we tibetans will elect a smart and educated person to the katri post rather than street-smart and arm-chair politicians. we should really not kill a fly twice. i definitely would not prefer to eat the same old food. what jn is attempting is forcing us to eat the old rotten food.
we tibetans have moved on.
past fifty years have been a drastic failure – the dalai lama says, so we should not give two monkey craps to individuals who boasted of sheer volumn of accomplishments. let us not b blinded by descendants of kudrags. they have the history of sitting on the top, trying to b royal and looking down upon the general people.
let us have a real man this time to keep our hope intact. i m sorry to say but Lobsang sangay is twenty years younger than Jamyang Norbu and Tenzin Namgyal Tethong and yet he has emerged as the most popular and potential kalon tripa candidate.
we know who is a thorn in the flesh and a paper tiger. we know who is a donkey in donkey’s skin with a heart of cat! as i like to say, after fifty years, we tibetans have moved on.
I don’t see any light at the end of the tunnel if tenzin tethong win election again, when he is a prime minister in the past there is no any positive change has happened, even he is resign, and now he want again become a prime minister, what a useless if he elected again there well be another wast of time, I don’t no why tibetan always trying old ways? why they are not trying a new ways? tenzin tethong is typicaly old way pathers and even he support the monotonous non-effective middle way, why tibetan not trying a new way with kalsang phuntsok? people always criticize him becouse he fail in mass movement in 2007 thats true but give him another chance, then don’ forget that he have a new way and new thinking and new policies,and he oppose old policy middle way and absurd dialogue with china, these old ways tibetan trying for thirty years and want trying for more years? WAKE UP TIBET!
tetong despite his age(60 in politics is ripe) is far more democratic and open in his thinking and attitude. a cool down to earth guy. he did contribute a lot. dont down play it. i dont think the main reason for him resigning was his children’s education or financial difficulties. it was utsang hater juchen or is it gochen n his regional yahoos n chamchas making it difficult for him in parliament over this dificit story over n over.
also he wasn’t directly elected by people as katri. there was not much power with katri at the time. things are a little different now. not much but a little.
i like godrukpa n his bold tongue on democratization n ofcourse his independence rhetorics but HE HAS NO FAN FOLLOWING. he impressed me with his cool politically educated passionate talk before a crowd of 3000 in new york palace hall in march 2007. his social skill is much more smooth n confident before a huge crowd than mine with me just talking to you alone in your panties in your living room with a porn movie on. lobsang’s glib is nothing before godrukpa’s highly charged tongue! if u dont believe it, arrange a debate between them!
now let me ask you again ”can he or you create that vote bank or power base in the next 4 months by awakening west tibetans? elders in utsang n domey welfare associations are all for tetong n utsang youth are for losang.
so tetong has some chance. losang is, from my calculation, sure to win with 75% of the votes. dark days ahead with arrogant middle way mantras engulfing the think tanks in dhasa with an unprecedented fog, smoke n smog. brace for it!
It is unfair to blame TN Tethong for holding American passport if he owns the Green Book. Many nations have dual citizenship. You cannot start discriminating against Tibetans in the West who have taken citizenship of their host nations. The point about his having a non Tibetan wife smacks of Talibanism. If it was all right to put our begging bowls in front of non Tibetans to start our schools and monasteries it shouldn’t matter when a Tibetan minister has a foreign wife.
yes,the lines are drawn clear now: between rangzen and middle pathers, the choice lies between kalsang phuntsok and lobsang sangay.
tethong,with his self-determination, falls nowhere in the equation. And, the followers of this pro-independent blog, should vote for kalsan phuntsok, by default, rather than languid TN. why are you guys, including JN, supporting tethong when he isn’t standing up independence? support kalsang phuntsok. he’s the right candidate.
Old Monk: you blow me away.
If you want LS to win, I suggest you refrain from typing any further on his behalf. Even I feel bad for him.
I honestly believe K.phun Godrukpa is the right candidate for Katri. I want complete independence or rangzen tsang ma tsang chun.
I like the short piece by Nyinjey on TPR. Why?
Brevity and clarity!!
FYI Gyakhab Rangzen:
It was not Juchen who instigated the allegations against Tethong. The people involved were minor players and mischief makers who FOLLOWED the ‘lead’ of the printed word of ‘Mangtso’. You are now playing out the same scenario of those people by instigating that Juchen & co are ‘utsang haters’……(hopefully on your own and not instigated from a higher authority) Do you have to resort to this level? Shame on you!!!
Another FYI @ Gyakhab Rangzen:
Juchen has served TGIE most of his life eventually serving as Kalon Tripa.
For this he deserves respect.
He belongs to an older generation of govt officials – who may come off us stubborn, arrogant and old fashioned; but this much you can say of him is that he definitely does NOT cater to the school of ‘Bihar Mayawati –yahoo politics’. He has his own integrity and principles.
I also like the piece by Tenzin Nyinjey on TPR. The fact that LS travelled to China (whatever the travel document) doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that LS doesn’t seem to be too candid about it. Which gives me the impression that he is not comfortable talking about it and hence raises question what might be bothering him.
Also the question about Tethong la’s passport/citizenship is I think nonsense. We should be careful not to impose any further documentary requirement than the Greenbook to be eligible to run for offices. Otherwise a large segment of our population will be left unrepresented in Dharamsala.
BTW: A little unknown fact – When TGIE first came out with the Middle Way approach – reference the ‘Strasbourg proposal of 1988’ – Juchen was the sole TGIE official calling for ‘Full Independent status‘ of Tibet. He thus became the ‘black sheep’ of sorts amongst his Peers; i.e.: Gyari, Tethong & Sonam Topgyal.
Old Monk,
here is the real comparison.
LS Claims / Tethong facts
(LS)Youngest member of TYC Centrex (1992 – age 24) / TNT founded TYC and was a member of Centrex 1970-74 (age 20)
LS – Senior Research Fellow (Harvard) / TNT -Distinguished Research Fellow (Stanford)
LS – organised dialogue with Chinese students/ TNT led Tibetan government delegation into Tibet and China (1980)
LS – raised Rs. 1 lakh (by your account) / TNT founded Tibet Fund (over $100M so far)
LS – active with student chapters / TNT founded ICT; initiated the 1000 Tibetans to the US (1990); Sheja publications; edited Tibetan Review …
LS – visits TGIE / TNT served the TGIE for 40 years!
As for the US citizenship of TNT, there are currently at least two Kalons and number of Drungches as well as Dhonchoes who all hold foreign passport. Advocating for holding of IC for Tibetans in India is irresponsible.
I started off supporting LS, I got turned off watching him on some of the ‘debates’ including at TIPA. He is extremely arrogant and self centred. His main concern about running for Kalon Tripa now is wondering what he will do in 10 years. He is seeking KT position for Lobsang Sangay.
the final selection should be made between gudruk Kalsang phuntsok la and Tethong namgyal la. former stands for complete independence and latter will follow HHDL. lobsang sange la and his different policy fits nowhere. there is ambiguity about LS personal life and regarding his policy.
guys, what a candidate did in the past is no guarantee of what he will do for the future. we’re, to all intents and purposes, more concerned about future agenda, vision, and political intellect.
of course, TNT has laid more on the table of TGIE, and overall cause of Tibet thus far, which is irrefutably admirable. However, we should also know that it’s hugely a matter of chance factor–his previledged family background, being there at the right moment, receiving the right opportunities, and possessing strong personal supporters. The fact that he led delegation to Tibet was again a matter of chance; he was “appointed”( not that he fought for it with talent and won), which in other words, means ” given the opportunity”.
And other achievements like opening the gate of siphoning 1000 Tibetans in the States wasn’t sorely his victory; in fact, he, being His Holiness’s close coterie, had the natural position to play a role in such matters. That too wasn’t based on his merit, but rather, his ” chance factor”.
TNT worked 40 years in TGIE. well, and good. But, what else could he have done instead with his high school diploma? There’s 1000 applicants for a lone vacancy for an office clerk in India. BAs and MAs struggle for such lowly post. Where could TNT have ended in such competitive job market? so it’s a natural choice for him to remain in TGIE, and grab opportunities, which he’s luckily prone to, from time to time, piling up easy bricks of achievements in his resume.
And, given a bigger chance, he wouldn’t doubt about fleeing to greener pastures. And he did it. And he admitted it. He even didn’t bother to complete his katri tenure in the haste to rush off to USA. Do we want such a paper tiger of avarice as the holder of our highest political office?
LS has given his best in all situations possible. And given the circumstances that he’s a commoner, born and bred in a humble family setting without a networks of hooks and strings around, LS has achieved way beyond his capacities.
TNT’s post in Stanford is just a glorified “name” whose actual job includes given language tuitions to students. That’s a relatively simple task, a post devoid of any intellectual rigour. LS is a Law Fellow–law is not an easy pie.
Tethong has a past, though chances. lobsang has a future, through hardwork. make your pick. And be happy, above all.
Thank you, old monk, for the morning wonderful delight of reading. I think TNT has a High School “Degree” according to his cousin brother JN. hehe
I think professor takluu (sperling) should spread the rumour that JN wants to become Obama, nay, Osama Bin Laden of Islamabad.
I hate to say this and I hope I am wrong but I want to declare once and for all that in this 21st century we do not cherish the names of Lhasang Tsering & Jamyang Norbu, just as the concept of war is outdated so too their hacknayedexpressions.
One of the fear i have is the dwindling population of tibetan monk in major monasteries in India,protecting our core tradition.
None of the candidates have addressed this issue.May be its just me noticing something within the changes that are taking place in our community.
Around 9 years ago, when i visited the monastery i saw many groups of ‘draptuk’ running around,shouting and calling me ‘ A! A! Phosa!’.I have loved and enjoyed that situation.
On my recent visit, i still saw the groups of ‘draptuk’ sucking up the honey dripping through their nostril and shouting.However, they are no longer calling me ‘Phosa”, but they are talking within the groups with “Ram ro tsa” language. It saddened me but happy that they have ‘whether tibetan or non-tibetan’ has promising energy to protect our core tradition.
May be the shift of current generation attitude and livelihood could be the cause.Our parents generation has produced from 3 to 8 children or even more by few.We always see Kushula walking by us reminding that we have option to be like him and our parents appreciating their wise decision on becoming a monk.Constant hearing of prayers and many trips a year to the monastery.Such was the environment.
I wish candidate could come up with a noble idea to keep alive our core tradition.
Old monk la and Supporter of TNT la,
Does LS and TNT has any plan to fulfill my only wish?
That’s a good point you made. And I think it is difficult to comments on the upcoming Katri and their policies regarding our languages and all. Although during the actual campaign, they talk big but in the real world, it’s a different thing. But atleast they can do something for the preservation of our own unique languages, cultures, traditions etc.
Now a day, you see Tibetans speaking English fluently but in their own mother tongue, their writing is very poor. As an individual, we should take the first step and learn the Tibetan languages more thoroughly through reading and writing.
Old Monk,
In recruitment a popular selection method is to assess past record to predict future performance. One’s collective past experiences is the best indicator of future behavior.
You seem to put LS’ Harvard appointment as if that is the end all qualification for KT or for any job in the world.
For someone in a Research position at a university, LS has very little published material. So there is not much to evaluate his potential. All of his ‘accomplishments’ listed are Tibet related. For someone with Harvard PhD, he has been under performing when measured against other Harvard graduates.
My argument is that LS is just not ready at this stage in his life. It is not age, just the circumstances in his life and his past experiences has not prepared him for the job of Silon/ Kalon Tripa. Never mind any leadership/ management/executive experience, he does not have any supervising or real work experience. He does not have any collaborative experience nor work under anyone. KT is not an on-job training position.
My dream would be to see him as one of the Kalons in the next term and then to seek KT position in five years. Now is not the time.
TNT, if chosen, will be in a different environment. KTs, for the last 10 years, have much more powers to accomplish things. In the past, KT was just one vote amongst a dysfunctional group of assembled individuals.
TNT, while not perfect, is the best candidate available.
@ nyima, don’t you agree with all great leaders are ” born” rather than made? Don’t you believe in the fact( though often not cited for good reasons) that our talents are genetically determined? Can’t you learn from Lobsang’s debates that he’s the wit and wisdom–the presence of mind, political awareness, broad-mindedness, and accommodating temperament–which are core prerequisites for the exalted chair of silon?
Give LS a chance. If he can’t prove himself, which i think is unlikely,he can be ” impeached” on no-confidence vote. As simple as that.
We need the courage to take risks. we need the courage to take a new path. How long shall we tread the same old worn-out road, where footprints of corrupted lamas, bigoted aristocrats, talentless ministers, and hungry officials, lie with stark aura of danger of leaving power in the hands of elderly, aristocratic people. Such people have experience, hell lot of it in fact, but they have no inborn genetically determined wisdom,fire,and honesty, which eventually culminated in the demise of our nation.
Do we want to make the same old mistakes again? Please don’t make me believe in the maxim of ” old dogs never learn new tricks”. we need to move with the tide of time, accept new ideas, take new avenues, and be amore civilized citizens.
My friends and foes, please, and again i say, please, think five times before jumping into TNT bandwagon. You will end up straight into the hell.
tetong n tetong supporters,
campaign must go beyond internet n few places in the west. last minute dhasa vote speech won’t do.
ill informed folks form the majority n 50,000 of them are in shichaks in south india. many of them are impressed or brainwashed by lobsang’s phd, youth n non kudrak status!
lobsang’s votebank…99% of dhotoes–young or old, 90% of monks n nuns who are dhotoes, 90% of youth from utsang and amdo.
tetong’s vote bank…90% of utsang elders, 85% of dhomey elders, 95% of cta staff..ex or current. 10% monks n nuns. 10% youth from utsang n dhomey.
The only bandwagon that I see is that of LS. Young and old alike. They are taken for a great ride.
Let’s leave the cliches aside for a moment. LS has not been able to exhibit his inherent leadership qualities in his 43 years of life. I have seen LS in number of talks and in debates. He sounds very impressive, first time around. The more you listen to him, you quickly realize the lack of substance. His exaggeration of facts and his tactic of debating for the sake of winning an argument get tiring after hearing it the second time.
As I have said earlier, I started off strongly supporting his candidacy. Over the past year, in watching his debates, I became more concerned about his lack of integrity, his tactics both in front and behind the scene. He is a politician, not a leader. He is good at gathering thoughts for the campaign. Based on what I have seen so far, I don’t believe he actually believes in half of what he says. He speaks to impress his audience. He speaks as though he enjoys hearing his own voice. I have no problem with anyone seeking the position with self interest. After all, the greatest motivator is self interest. I do have problem with his statements like “I went to the US and lived there for 15 years for Tibet. I did not go to the US for personal reasons” (@ TIPA debate).
I agree with you in giving him a chance. And for that I would like to see him in Kashag, just not as the Kalon Tripa. The post is too important to take a chance with an unknown.
As I said earlier, TNT is the best choice that we have available. I have been familiar with TNT for many years. He is one of the most unselfish person that I know. Remember, it was he who started the Tibet Fund at the Office of Tibet. TGIE watched silently as Rinchen Dharlo made it his personal fiefdom; it was TNT who started ICT only to have TGIE watch Gyari keep that. It was TNT who initiated the program to have the 1000 Tibetans to the US. Interesting as to how people forget all that. He has the proven record. At this critical time, let us go with a proven leader rather than a hypothetical one.
I just saw the result of the preli.vote. There is quite a gap between No.1 and 2.
@ THENORBU # 162:
I can understand your nostalgia for the “environment”. But I do not think that putting more kids into monasteries is a necessary or for that matter a reasonable condition for preserving our culture or tradition. In my opinion culture and tradition, as important as they are, are always in a state of flux. I know these days there are monasteries where kids are taught English and other subjects, but I wish they do it in a school type setting without binding innocent children to monastic vows for life. Spiritual pursuits should be left as an option to be considered when the child has matured into adulthood.
@KALSANG PHUNTSOK LA.
I agree with your view on “optional attitude”.
My fear is on the number of tibetan monks in those monastery after 10 years from today,
as a result of the changes happening in our social and economic attitude,behaviour and environment.
Not that i am against ‘ram ro tsa’ population i saw,i do appreciate their parents choice. (Though their reason of becoming a monk could be economic one,yet positive that the outcome could prove beneficial to all).
Hear me, fellows. You all are aware of Tethong’s journey to the west to seek wealth for his children’s schooling. He effectively fled from his office, without completing his term,to engage in money-making business.
well, fellows…let us think…what if Tethong la escapes again,if he wins the katri election, to USA to seek some ‘more wealth’ for his children’s marriage? They must be of marriageable age now, and of course, it’s relatively ‘costly’. He will kick at his katri chair,muttering ” there ain’t no money here”, and book a ticket to USA at a dead of night.
what will we do in such a scenario? Who will we blame? Who will be responsible for such a disgraceful action–JN and his fans? His campaigner? His voters? There’ll be nothing left to do except regret!
I think TPR and JN are all ganging up to beat LS but I dont think he will be defeated…unless they play dirty trick. Here is somehting interesting that I read,that kills TPR
http://samtsul.blogspot.com/
Following are some thoughts on the primary results:
30% of the voters simply want someone new in the office. They are tired of same old Kashag. So, the experience and service in the Tibetan government is not so important to them. It seems that they don’t even care whether the candidate is someone who has faith in Chinese contitution and is for integrating with Chinese, and then fighting for rights as citizen of China. The choice is clear for them as there is only one person who fits this description – Dr. LS. So, Dr. LS got 30% of the votes.
70% of the voters want someone who has demonstrated his/her leadership through many years for dedicated service for the Tibtetan people, and someone who believes in fighting for no less than genuine freedom for Tibetan people. Several of the candicates fit this description as such 70% of the votes are divided among them. Unless, the people vote for someone from this group who has a chance of winning, Dr. LS may be next KT.
Dorjee la,
Its not 30% and 70% in EC result.
Its 53.8% and 46.2%. Thats hugh.!
yo dorjee la, don’t get the facts wrong, man. remember LS had a landslide victory!
tashi wangdi is a great candidate but his score is 11 times less than lobsang’s so chances of him winning is an absolute zero. therefore, on behalf of tetong n his vision i along with 12000 voters request you to kindly withdraw from the race so your 2000 votes will fly to tetong.
daveno n old monk,
asli gora bath mey dorta hai!
dont get too excited.
to save from further embarassment, best option left for Tnt i
s to withdraw. i don’t think he can even dare facing LS in future. by withdrawing, he saves his time, money & energy. 70% of tibetan prime ministerial election is done. 10% lies on the debate and 20% top five from the can fght among themseleve
s hehe
i mean top five from the bottom
thanks, daveno and old monk. dr. ls has 22,489 out of 47,000 votes (47.8%) or 22,489 out of 79,449 (28.3%) registered voters. this is very impressive for someone who has never held any official position in tibetan government. however, i am not sure you can call this a landslide victory.
i am not sure if dr. ls is running for KT to serve tibetan people, but rather more interested in self-promotion, something to add on his resume. it just bothers me that he had not even tried to work for tibetan government in some capacity for all these years since finishing his education. instead he worked hard get the waiver of the required service and j1 status. i am aware that he has organized some dialoque with chinese students and/or scholars, but how much time do these activities take. on the other hand, the all other candidates have worked for years (some entire life) for tibetan government. many of us who studied in american universities have organized tibet awareness and gave talks on tibet. i don’t see what dr. ls has done is not much differently than many of us who got the opportunity to study in us.
i may be wrong making this assumption about dr. ls. i hope i am wrong.
at the present circumstances, a katri who is intellectually bright, politically informed, visioned, is more important than the one who demonstrated his dedication, is experienced, or even humble. we are not rewarding an individual for his service to the nation. we are not rewarding the most hardworking person. We need the most talented fellow who can make the most difference to the nation at this critical juncture of time. And that clearly is lobsang sangay.
forget that experience shit. don’t you guys know Dalai Lama took the responsibility at the age of 16 without a commendable political know-how? He did well. As i have posited earlier, leadership is 70% about inborn gift, and 30% other attributes, which includes expereince, etc. LS, judging from his talks, is undisputed leader. His clarity of thought, organizational skills of his points, quick wit, politico-legal knowledge make him shine out from his competitors.
Gyakyap rangzen,
You are right.Asli ghora bath mey dorta hai!, i am sure that your ASLI GHORA will become DHORTA in 2020.
Keep on dreaming!
It is not that LS has no TGIE/Dharamsala experience that concerns me, I am concerned for the fact that he has no real work experience. His only experience is that of ‘Senior Research Fellow’ at Harvard. And since the only criteria on which a Research fellow can be measured is publication of research, I am concerned that there is not a single paper published in any academic journals or otherwise since his dissertation. While these are not the requirement of Kalon Tripa, it speaks of the experience or lack thereof LS. There might have been circumstances that prevented LS from publishing. What research has he been doing at Harvard?
Regardless, I believe he should be given an opportunity to learn on the job as a member of the Kashag, but not as a Kalon Tripa just yet.
Old Monk, your comparisons of LS to HHDL is way way off!
Hi, Nyima la,
I couldn’t agree with you more on this. Obviously, you have been following this closely and I like reading your intelligent comments.
Thank you.
”gora dhorta in 2020” u mean he will kick the bucket at 70? a very gross childish sarcasm. all will head to the original source when his or her time comes. the ‘no’ in your name is very ominous. use a tibetan one than a fictional one that exists nowhere. dave’no’ n san’gay’ will drive tibet’s future crazy! but to you this must be a ”temdrel sangpo sheda rey!”
Gyakhb rangzen,
Thukjey chey! Accept and respect the 53% of those participated in preli process.I would do the same whoever leads..he he.!
Dorjee,
How could you bring in 79K in the calc? That shows you like to do some ‘probability’ and ‘If’ vs ‘But’ calculation.
Do the math on facts.
If i were to go your line, the vote for LS is 41870! out of 79K.
The article and the posts above blamed Lobsang Sangay of funding “15 cents” armies for the Kalon Tripa campaign!!!What an insight though I don’t believe a bit in it!!!
Then how different is Jamyang la’s stooping to NEPOTISM by writing an article defiling LS and supporting Tethong?
As far as I know, Jamyang Norbu and TN Tethong are RELATIVES!! Just throwing an extra bit of information for the readers.
m
rd
ibarnto think big. Learns to think great.
There is no room
fo
repiyiness
and
family
problem.
What is going on with Tsering Choedon Lejotsang these days? Has she lost all her love?
@nyima, tell me: why I can’t compare LS against dalai lama? Are you talking about presumed supernatural powers HH is presumed to possess according to Tibetan Buddhist tradition?
I don’t see any reason why we can’t compare two human beings. Please give reasons, nyima, rather than just making bold statements without logical argument. Please give me two reaons.
Check this interesting facebook picture in chennai!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=165910303443608&set=a.165910236776948.34684.111442515557054
To Webmaster,
1. Can you please see if the IP address matches the address through which I usually comment?
2. If it does, than it has to be through my home computer, and the writer has to be one of the students who are living with me temporarily.
I did not write that comment. Please delete it
Thank you
TCL
Old Monk just stuff it! what a kup-ukong u r!
@Old Monk #191
you’re beginning to sound more and more like Lobsang Sangay.first Obama and now HHDL.
you want to know why you cant compare LS with HHDL? God forbid but if tomorrow HHDL is no more nobody would give a shit about any Kalon Tripa. Becoz nobody has earned it. Its not like we have our country.that is the differnece.
You call LS a leader. He is a politician through and through. HHDL is a leader. that is the difference. HHDL has earned it and not just amongst tibetans but international community.
Old monk, you’re in such a hurry to get to the top that you lost sight of the big picture. you guys never cease to amaze me with your arrogance and naivete.
Mountainlakeman!
You are saying ‘Oldmonk’ cant compare between HHDL and LS.However, you kept on comparing such as HHDL as a leader and LS as a politician..Hypocrite?
No one can lead us as perfectly as HHDL.Anyone disputing this fact is purely nyongpa.
But, we could set that perfection as a benchmark for the others to lead as close as possible to HHDL.There is nothing wrong in working hard to achieve perfection.
hey Daveno! just chill. old monk asked for 2 reasons. and i gave him. do you want more ? dont try to bite more than you can chew.
MTlakeman@
I am chilling out man!
No,thank you,your 2 reason is good enough for now.
The ‘Bite’ and ‘Chew” thing will not apply to “Can do anything” age category like me.
When i closely look into the list of candidates for chiteu and Katri,one question came up..
Are these individuals capable to move our cause ahead considering current situation?
@ old monk. One cannot and should not compare Kundun with Kalon Tripa, because of these two main reasons:
1) Kundun is the 14th reincarnation of Che-re-sea (the Bodhisattva of Compassion), who has descended on this earth to serve humanity, while postponing his path to nirvana. Kundun puts the needs of others before his own. Whereas, the Kalon Tripa is like every other human being (like u and me) who has no recollection of his past life and experiences, and is swayed by human nature (such as desire for materialistic things,jealousy, anger,domination,pleasures), which ultimately is seeking one’s own happiness first.
2) Kundun is not only seen as a spiritual and political leader of Tibet,but also one of the greatest leaders of the world, who is not only concerned about the 6 million Tibetans in Tibet, but all 6 billion ppl in this world today! He is known globally for his efforts on spreading the messages of world peace, compassion, and happiness, while also putting the Tibetan issue on the front map everywhere he leads. Kundun has three main commitments in his life, to promote human values,to promote religious harmony, and to continue his support in the Tibetan movement. Whereas, Kalon Tripa,(again,like u and me) has his own commitments, but does not measure up with what Kundun has in store.
Old monk la, I really hope you now have some understanding as to why we cannot compare these two individuals in any way possible. Kundun always say “I am like you” but he is just being modest. 🙂
Why are we freaking not at all talking about LS and TT’s policies on all aspects of the Tibetan world? Fok with personality and ability crap! ENOUGH!
Tenpa D. Gapshi wrote a very interesting and well-balanced piece on the results of the first round of the Kalon Tripa’s election: http://bit.ly/9L1xNT
CAMPAING TACTIC, OUTSIDER AND INSIDER
Prelimenary Katri election results silenced the much heated talk about katri election. In Los Angeles tibetan community, it appears like a done deal. Not many people talk about candidates, their policy/agenda and past experience, rather talk about the margin by which Lobsang Sangay la won.
In my opinion, the fundamental difference between Lobsang Sangay la and the rest of the candidate is their campaign strategy. LS la used full campaign force right from the day one, mimicking the democratic process of the west. He observed, learned and executed the solid campaign tactic. LS is 100% involved in this election. Rest of the candidates are half hearted into their campagin. many of them did not attend most of the debates. Commonality among rest of the candidates is that they all worked for long time in TGIE. Their mentality and working style are same. LS being outsider brought change in campaign process.
Watch out for more changes ahead! Also, watch out for OBAMA of CHINA factor.
guys, please tell me why tethong didn’t contest for katri in 2006 against samdhong lama? I am very curious.
The only consolation this time is no Gori in this election. We have enough of religion mixing with politics for last 800 years.
I agree with Namgyal Kyulo that LS was 100% in the campaign from the start. Others were not were sure and some even said that they are standing for this election because of their friends and well wisher’s insistence and pressure.
yes, Tethong’s claim that he didn’t have ” much desire, but if people really insists, I will stand for katri” is painfully disappointing. He has no commitment. LS has outspokenly confirmed his desire to serve Tibet, through katri, or any relevant post in government, whereas in Tethong’s case, it’s the insistence and request from people that prompts him to consider the katri post. That’s really narrow-minded,silly, and directionless.
Namgyal Kyulo and other cheer-leaders of LS,
It is the MONEY. Trace the source of money. Question the source of money and luxury that LS has whereas others don’t.
Doesn’t it amazes you about the luxury of time LS has? Forget for a minute all your rational. Just do this simple meditation in front of your mirror when you get up to shave your face: Ask who on earth can have the luxury to travel off and on, ( reflect on how much the airfares cost? Also remember his mortgage on American home, it is duplex we are told) and yet LS can travel without worrying about losing your job, specially for you people in west which is so important, and then have all the money to pay and lift all the bills of your chamchas ? There in lies the answer,my friend.
LS should come out clean that his source of finance. Specially LS should prove that source of money is not some manipulated currency ? It is a very legitimate question every voter should ask.
I urge other candidates ( I hope Dolma Gyari la will do) take the lead and declare their campaign source of money and put pressure on LS to come out clean on this issue.
Also let’s take our Tibetan democracy one step ahead and force all the Kalon Tripa candidates to declare their assets.
The biggest issue with LS is trust / integrity of character. I want all the young and naive to at least reflect on what the great American investor Warren Buffet said about what to look for when hiring people.
( Remember here, we as people are hiring someone to be our Kalon Tripa.) This is what great Buffet said:
” In looking for someone to hire, you look for three qualities: Integrity,intelligence, and energy. But the most important is integrity,because if they don’t have that, the other two qualities, intelligence and energy, are going to kill you.”
To LS: I know that you do spent time lot of time poring through all that is being written. Please, don’t take it personal. As much as this land(Tibet) is your land; this land is my land too. Come out clean and I will vote for you. It is as simple as that.
Times have changed. People appreciate forthrightness and openness. They can’t be blamed for confusing humility with lack of confidence because they are left with very little with which to assess their options. And by all measure a confident leader seems to be the need of the hour, which they see in LS.
It is sad that Tethong la has fallen victim to his own humility, even though he is the candidate with more experience and a more balanced view on the direction and the characteristics our struggle should acquire. Judging by the way Tethong la has conducted his campaign, it seems he may be quietely confident of his approach. It is not hard to see now that he has seriously misjudged the people.
There is still time, he should reinvigorate his campaign. As for the other candidates, they should now withdraw their candidacy and endorse their choice of the two leading ones.
In my assessment of the two candidates, I find Tehtong la more honest in his answers to the difficult questions. Perhaps it is because of his knowledge and years of experience working at the highest level of CTA that allows him to predict the most likely outcome of any effort towards changing the direction/nature of our struggle. He is cautiously optimistic and avoids making statements which might raise the expectations to unattainable levels (which is not very high in my opinion no matter which candidate)while also clearly asserting that the choice is ours.
Whereas, LS always points to the constitution or some vague authority (e.g. a major world event, change of mind by Chinese leaders or people or a war, or possibly a change of mind by HHDL) which he insists will dictate the nature of our struggle. While I agree that this is to some degree true, I am not comfortable hearing this from someone aspiring to be a Leader. We don’t need political analyst (even though that skill is useful to have in a Silon), we need someone who believes in bringing changes (real changes), not just change in the person in the office. If this is his real approach, then we can pretty much be assured that it will be business as usual. Only that there will be a new manager.
I hope I am wrong about LS.
of course you’re wrong, kalsang phuntsok. no doubt about that.
I hope you are right Old Monk.
If LS can’t bring a shift in the way we conduct our struggle than I would prefer to see someone like Tethong to be the manager, because he has a proven record in that sense. I have the confindence to say that Tethong la at least will not jeopardize what we already have if he cannot add to it.
Judging from his statements and articles, LS doesn’t seem to be for “Rangzen”, that’s for sure. To be fair Tethong la has also not made his views clear on it. JN la has pointed out that LS’ vision about future of Tibet is something close to total assimilation with the mainland, which if true, I am totally against and so are the majority of the Tibetans. No matter what, we cannot agree to live under a Communist constitution. So LS does not bring me any hope in that area.
What I hope he would do if he is elected, is to bring some real changes in Our Exile government system; like party system, separation of Church and State, reformation of our school and monastic system and innovative/active campaigns against China. He will have his handsful in his office and I hope he doesn’t put his own interest over the interest of the Six-Million Tibetans.
it is very disgracing to see that LS la keep on answers to the question about the matter of leadership of 6million Tibetans, by stating that “according to the section 4 and 5 of charter of the Tib-govt-in-exile, HHDL is the leader”. I feel that it is inappropriate and childish to emphasis to much on sections and charter to address to such question. one must not forget that the tibetans in and outside tibet hoist photo only of HHDL and hails Long Live HHDL.
one can misinterpret different conclusion from aforementioned LS’s remark. people shouldnt select kalontripa on the basis of witty remarks.
I would rather go for a man who can throw witty remarks than the low IQ, though bit experienced in managerial terms, who is too slow to organize his thoughts, can’t argue with valid reasons, stemming from his inborn lack of cerebral faculty. Tethong’s IQ is probably around 95 considering the vague, wishy-washy manner of tackling questions.
how will that languid tethong will face media if he’s awarded some tough questions on the questions of Tibet? He will stammer, stutter, and cut a very sorry impression, as if Tibetan nation has commited a very black crime. I mean what does that languid tethong exactly possess? He will make a good kalon, not katri, who will manage the ” day to day” affairs of the CTA, using his TGIE experience, while holding one of the departments, under LS. And ideally, tethong can act as an advisor and confidant to LS, given that the former has some degree of wordly wisdom gained through age. LS, being a visionary and highlyeducated, with huge dynamism and energy, will make a perfect kalon tripa. The cabinet should consist of a mix of officials, young and old, with varied expertise and experience. Three fellows out of six nominated in the preleminary round for katri could be given a department each, with some new guy taking the other four post. That will make a perfect composition.
If tethong is selected, he is sure to appoint all oldies and old-fashioned duds like him, as exactly samdhong did. And we are all doomed to the deepest hell. we need change. Change is the catchword.
i will analyze the animosity of JN towards LS in psychological terms in the context of Sigmund Freud’s perspective on human being’s response to external stimuli. Well, it’s been universally agreed that people possessing similar attributes, from shared past family backgrouds, to love for music and art, passion for academic debates, to something as minor as sharing a memory of romantic heartbreak form an emotional affinity amongst them. And, in our context, JN and TN both hail from aristocratic families fallen through both paradigm shift in social structures as well as invasion of our country. They both went to elite English school, after which they’re involved in government service as they’re very few educated Tibetans. It’s reasonably their responsibility as the pre-1949 Tibet provided education only for nobles, who’ll later serve in the government( normally one male boy from each noble family, usually the oldest). The interim exile government had, of course, no one except those nobles. Both of them are intelligent persons, JN more intense, decisive one; TN,on the other hand, subtle, calm, and politically cautious in nature. They both brought enormous contribution in the exile government. The ill-educated tibetan masses disgraced their names in gross, ruthless ignorance. And now, after years, they both find themselves up abroad, with people almost forgetting their contributions.
On the other hand, LS is the beneficiary of changes in our society. He’s the product of new generation. He’s young, harvard-educated, proletarian in upbringing, and popular amongst youngsters, without a considerable past achievement on the table except his credentials and promise for the future. JN can’t tolerate this,as he finds it brutally unfair. JN and TN, though much they sound reasonable, still has aristocratic prejudices for the common-man. JN feels that LS received unfair adventages for publicising ” I’m harvard guy”, which hurts him, because he didn’t have a college degree. JN is against formal route of education. He’s a personal antipathy for formal education, believing scholars can be made through self-education, which is rightly true. ( But he doesn’t acknowledge the fact that having been to a university, even a prestigious one at that, won’t necessarily harm the intellectual development.)once in Dharamsala, I met JN during my highschool days, and excited asked him,”What are the important elements in writing an essay?”. Seeing me in “school uniform”, he said curtly,as if I had just pulled his mostouche,”Ask them to school teachers. They know better. They went to university. I didn’t.”
When we consider LS’s Obama joke, JN has effectively blown the typically harmless, passing remark, out of proportion to olympic scales. He himself only makes such jokes. his criticism of lack of LS’s experience is very fair, but picking on OBAMA-joke demonstrates his desperate need to spank LS down to size.
It’s not about political thoughts only; there’s a lot of human anthropological and psychological ripples stemming from subtly personal levels.
Anyone read the article -Harvard Law School Scholar Set To Lead Tibet- published November 16, 2010 (http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2010/11/16/sangay-harvard-tibetan-candidacy/)
Why is Dr. LS saying something like …. “Who I am now, as a scholar and an activist and a diplomat, is mainly because of Harvard,”….
We all know that Dr. LS hasn’t any diplomat status, at least not in our TGiE. The more of those statements the more we should get worried.
Guys, this is so funny.
Recently i heard that during LS’s visit to shechak(south), he visited(takor) to the farm field and measured length by his eyes. the farmers anticipatively placate him. finally, on some farmers request LS promised to provide them tractors. haha…
when he is goin to stop this drama?
if you are talking about IQ of this level thn ofcourse LS has highest IQ.
@daveno, @lajotsang, @namgyal kyulo, @old monk, @not so wiseman, you guys please read carefully and answer these questions on behalf of your candidate Lobsang Sangay:
1. How did Lobsnag Sangay go to Beijing with an IC and meet the high level officials of communist govt?
2. What is the source of LS’ unlimited campaign fund (are you sure no other crooked nation is sponsoring him) it ay be a little too much for some in this blog to call him Gyami Sowa but he better explain and clear the suspicions in people’s mind
3. LS broke the law by not returning after completion of his Fulbright program. How does he justify this.
4. Inspite of staying in the US for so long, how does he still carry a valid IC issued by the Indian govt. I think the Indian and the US govt. must also make sure any law is not broken.
5. Did he pay his green book properly? When did he start paying as an employed Tibetan (which year) and does that year correspond to his employment date? We must check.
More serious questions later!!!
Kelsang Phuntsok la and Sharu Chigpa la,
In my statment, I merely tried to analyze why Lobsang Sangay la won in big margin. Like it or not, LS ran better campaign, that was whole point of my writing. Never in my writing, I mentioned anyting suggesting my support for LS la. I am equally worried about LS stance and naive approach, but at the same time, except LS, all other candicates did not express enthusism for the Silon position.
I have no idea about LS financial resources. I agree, all candicate should come clean on their campaign financial sources and status. If you guys do some search and shed unbaised valid and factual ligth on all issues will be more helpful.
Best
LS says he doesn’t like it that Umey Lham proponents and Rangzen proponents both use “excessive rhetoric”…which he finds “unhealthy and divisive”.
His Holiness or TGIE led by Samdhong Rinpoche are the proponent of Umey lham; Jamyang Norbu and his supporters are the proponents of Rangzen.
Lobsang Sangay, tell us what did His Holiness/Samdhong Rinpoche say or Jamyang Norbu say with regard to our political struggle that you found “excessive” and were “divisive and unhealthy”?
RESPONSE TO WISEMAN ACCUSATION,
Your accusition to JN and TN re: aristocratic prejudices for the common-man is absurd and unjust. Your accusation that JN is against formal education is also not true and unjust. I have not heard, seen and found any indication authencating your accusation. JN la is self taught intellectual. He is proficient in english lit, tibetan history and politics. In my brief interaction with JN la, through reading his books and writing, never felt that JN la is against formal education system. Well, if he does, he is using is first amendent right. I went through formal education with MD, MPH and now in PhD program. I have great respect for JN la achivement, and more so on his contribution, even though I may not necessarily agrees to all this view points.
Use this blog site wisely so that we can debate, learn and dialough positively through this channel.
Best
As I’ve had the chance to scroll through a few posts about Kudrags, Jamyang Norbu, and Rangzen, I must share a few thoughts.
1) Only because of the obscenely restrictive nature of the Tibetan political discourse is JN seen as some kind of “threat.” Brits and Americans rip into their respective governments far more voraciously than JN. So, this “speak one word against Samdhong Rinpoche and you’re betraying the nation of Tibet” mentality is sheer absurdity. Even his detractors should thank JN for contributing to a spirit of dialogue, debate, and discourse.
2) Aristocrats shmistocrats. The Chinese Red Bastard Commies went after and killed pretty much everyone with a soul. In the end it didn’t matter that much whether you were rich or poor or monk or lay — you’d still get your tongue torn out with an iron hook just for speaking the Dalai Lama’s name. Don’t forget who the real enemy is. The Chinese government, its soldiers, and police. The people brutalizing and terrorizing your people. Not your countrymen.
3) Can you fault anyone who thinks Rangzen is the only way? TGIE has been working on chatting with their Chinese counterparts for more than a couple decades, yet has not secured even a mild improvement in human rights, let alone any progress towards HHDL’s cherished “genuine autonomy.” It’s a sickening joke to even the most dedicated observer.
4) I’m sick and tired of this crap that you can’t speak about and critique TGIE without being somehow “against” HHDL. Frankly, most of Chusi Gangdruk who died to bring HHDL to freedom would probably be nauseous with TGIE’s policies, and I think those dead soldiers have a little more moral weight than any of us here in cyberspace. By the way, if you think I’m against HHDL, I won’t respond because I won’t argue with insane folks. Or idiots.
5) I do believe in the possibility of the Tibetan government becoming a successful governing body. But they’ll need to adopt a realistic approach. I’ll outline it briefly below:
a) examine the record and realize the Chinese do nothing but lie, steal, and kill
b) based on point a, abandon any hope of a negotiated settlement
c) declare Rangzen as the goal and work to achieve it
Unfortunately, I doubt this has much chance of happening anytime soon, and when it does, it will likely be too late.
But then, what do I know? I’m probably some kind of fanatic. You know, the kind that’s more dangerous than Chinese Communists or Dholgyal worshippers! LOL.
-Patel and Company.
p.s. it’s good to be back.
welcome patel!