.
When Bhutan set out on its democracy experiment in 2008, I must admit to a little skepticism. I thought the Dragon Kingdom would follow in the footsteps of Nepal’s Panchayat democracy (initiated by King Mahendra in 1962). In this party-less “guided” democratic system the people could elect their representatives for a tame parliament, while real power remained firmly in the hands of the throne.
But then to my surprise the Bhutanese monarchy took the radical step of allowing, even insisting on the formation of actual political parties. To free-up the traditional feudal mindset of the Bhutanese public, the very popular king took the decision to abdicate and appointed his young son to the role of a low-profile constitutional monarch. Shortly thereafter a number of independent parties sprang up in Bhutan, but through mergers and disqualifications, two parties finally remained to contest the elections: the People’s Democratic Party, PDP (མི་སེར་དམངས་གཙོའི་ཚོགས་པ་) and the Bhutan Peace and Prosperity Party, DPT (འབྲུག་ཕུན་སུམ་ཚོགས་པ). The latter won the elections overwhelmingly though it was explained by some “analysts” that its victory had resulted from it being the more pro-monarchist of the two parties.
But two months ago, in Bhutan’s second national elections the weak opposition People’s Democratic Party (PDP) stormed into power, winning 32 of the country’s 47 parliamentary seats. Voter turnout was an impressive 80% of the country. Bhutan has proven that it is a real democracy, and a vibrant and dynamic one as well. The PDP not only defeated the “royalist” DPT party but did so while rejecting Bhutan’s official doctrine of “Gross National Happiness” or GNH. Earlier, such a repudiation of Bhutan’s core national policy promoted by His Majesty Jigme Singe Wangchuk in 1972, would definitely have been regarded as lèse majesté, perhaps even sacrilegious.
In an interview with AFP, the new Prime Minister, Lonchen* Tshering Tobgay was critical of GNH: “I’m sceptical on how it has been overused by some people and how they have been distracted from the real business at hand,” While campaigning for the election, often on foot through remote villages, Tobgay focused on what he sees as “the business at hand” for Bhutan: chronic unemployment, poverty, corruption and a sense that politicians were too remote. The Lonchen was recently in New York for the UN conference and in a lengthy interview with the New York Times he repeated his criticisms. Back home in Bhutan life went on as usual. The sky didn’t fall. The ground didn’t crack open and swallow up the kingdom. The royal family continued to maintain its dignified silence. Constitutionally, I am told that members of Bhutan’s royal family do not even have the vote, since the act of casting one would indicate royal support for a particular party, which could affect the fairness of elections.
There is a regrettable and absolutely unwarranted prejudice among older Tibetans (which the younger generation happily don’t seem to share) to look down on the Bhutanese as somewhat primitive and unsophisticated. So perhaps a comparison of the relative progress of our two political systems might be in order, if for nothing else than to try and guess which one appears to be more the creation of enlightened democrats and which one the work of superstitious barbarians (lalo).
In Dharamshala this September, shortly after celebrating “Tibetan Democracy Day”, the Parliament-in-Exile initiated what can perhaps be called Cultural Revolution style “struggles” (thamzing) against those who had “hurt the feelings” of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. The campaign was kicked off with the censuring of a Member of Parliament, Karma Chophel, on the crackpot charge of “speculating that, when composing the “Words of Truth Prayer”, His Holiness the Dalai Lama had “independence in his heart.” (A detailed report is available at Tibetan Political Review.) This bizarre accusation brought to mind a Cultural Revolution incident where a down-to-earth Chinese farmer speculated (perhaps a little to loudly) that sticking Mao Zedong’s quotations in the fields to encourage vegetables to grow, was perhaps not an effective agricultural technique. He was denounced, struggled, and beaten – possibly to death.
Led by the speaker, Penpa Tsering, our Members of Parliament then proceeded to launch fierce denunciations of other Tibetans (including myself) who had simply spoken up (often forcefully but never disrespectfully) in favor of independence over the Dalai Lama’s “Middle Way” policy. Our hur-tsunpa (Ch. jiji fenzi 积极分子) MP’s demanded that these malefactors not only be exposed but banished from exile society, not withstanding the fact that the exile parliament does not have any legal powers to do anything of the kind. But of course the real but unstated intention was to instigate the more fanatical and uneducated elements members of exile public to take matters into into their own hand, which in the past has resulted in a number of mob attacks and public humiliation of establishment critics. Even the murder of one.
Presumably in a bid to obtain the support of the Indian public for his campaign, Speaker Penpa Tsering gave a brief interview to the Hindustan Times where he quoted His Holiness as saying that He had earlier intended to live to the age of 113 but because of “a Tibetan Youth Congress official (TYC), a staff of Radio Free Asia and a Tibetan writer expressing dissatisfaction …” His Holiness had decided to live only to the age of 108 years. Far from eliciting the sympathy of the Indian public this interview only invited ridicule. The comments from Indian readers were uniformly contemptuous. A Kurshid Alam wrote “Well done Tibetan politicians in exile, you have successfully made the whole Tibetan movement into a joke. Keep up the good work. Continue mixing your politics with ancient religion so your people back home continue dying. YOU JUST LOST A STRONG SUPPORTER.”
If our hon’ble speaker had deliberately set out to sabotage the Tibetan issue in India, he couldn’t have done a better job than with this one interview.
The MPs were allowed unlimited time by the speaker and each one tried to outdo the others in the ferocity of their denunciations, one of the more rabid being the North American representative, Norbu Tsering, who declared, “We have to get rid of these people like we get rid of rotten teeth when they start aching.” With so many MPs essentially repeating themselves, some aspired to originality by denouncing the editors of the Tibetan Political Review, the only serious political journal in the Tibetan world, and even the filmmaker Tenzin Sonam for his documentary film, Sun Behind the Clouds, which received the 2010 Vaclav Havel Freedom Award from president Havel himself. The film also received a number of other Human Rights awards including the prestigious Rudolph Vrba “Right to Know” Award.
But when it seemed that this parliamentary exercise to crush free speech and free thought in Tibetan society had picked up a nice head of steam, something quite unexpected happened. A young MP, Dhardon Sharling, rose from her seat and calmly declared that instead of heaping blame on a few individual Tibetans, everyone in the Parliament ought to look into their own “conscience” (she used the English word) for not doing enough to realize His Holiness’s wishes. Dhardon la’s statement is on youtube. Another MP Chungdak Koren, who could not attend this parliamentary session asked a colleague to read her questions and opinions to the Parliament. Chundak la also posted them on her own blog. An excerpt: “… instead of excluding critics, we should be including them and inviting them to air and exchange views. These people might have constructive suggestions and their inputs could be of great value. We always need to retain an open mind when it comes to criticism“. A few other MPs, I am informed, did not join the thamzing denunciations.
Unlike the old days when the establishment could whip up large mobs of hundred or so thugs and fanatics to beat up and intimidate critics this time around the Parliament only managed to round up a small rent-a-crowd of old polas and molas who shuffled around Gangchen Kyishong carrying identical signs, almost certainly printed of a wide-format printer from a CTA office.
Even the efforts made to spread the campaign throughout Tibetan communities worldwide does not seem to have met with much success. I heard that a community meeting was held in Switzerland to denounce those who had “hurt the feeling of Kundun”, but other than that there has been no report of any such confab. In New York City an attempt was made to stop a public talk (The Rangzen Imperative) that the Tibetan National Congress (TNC) had arranged for me to give to the Tibetan public on the 5th of October.
The manager of the United Sherpa Association, whose hall the TNC had rented for the occasion, received anonymous phone calls claiming that the TNC and myself were against the Dalai Lama. Another phone call accused the Sherpa Association of renting its hall to Shugden worshippers. Threats of a public demonstration and disruption of the lecture were made, but on the actual morning of the talk no protester showed up. Inside the auditorium there was standing room only. TNC volunteers also streamed the talk on Livestream and have received, up to now, over sixteen thousand five hundred viewers from all over the world, even from Tibet and China.
In a welcome departure from the usual timidity and self-censorship of the Tibetan media, the exile-parliament’s conduct was vigorously condemned in a local Tibetan language newspaper Bod Kyi Bangchen (Tibet Express). The opinion piece by the deputy editor, Choenyi Woser, was also translated in English and appeared in the Tibet Sun. Chonyi Woeser la was also the first to make the comparison of the exile parliament’s antics with the Cultural Revolution.
Another article in English, I Solemnly Swear by the Flag of Tibet by Tenpa Gashi, not only ridiculed the antics of our legislators with biting wit and satire, but also offered a well thought-out solution to this problem. Tenpa la is the son of the late Gashi Tsering Dorje, a leading political commentator from the 70s and 80s and a friend of mine. Back in those days he and I wrote articles exposing the limits of Deng’s Liberalization policy and the naïveté of Dharamshala’s hopes for negotiations with Beijing. Tse Dorje la’s writings had a greater impact on Tibetan public thinking than my pieces in the Tibetan Review, as he wrote in Tibetan and furthermore had a profound understanding of the Chinese Communist Party and its long history of duplicity and cruelty.
So in spite of our exile-parliamentarians diligently emulating the sycophancy of North Korean legislators (of the Supreme People’s Assembly) we now have a novel and welcome development where Tibetan journalists, bloggers, Rangzen activists, even a few MPs and an growing number of skeptical and concerned mimang are openly asking hard questions about those who claim to represent them.
So perhaps all is not lost for Tibetan democracy, though it does appear to be touch and go right now. But how did our politics degenerate to this disgusting septic-tank low in the first place? I am not going to go into details on the history of our so-called democracy. I have already written a number of essays on that subject, and those needing a full picture might want to check out my three-part “Waiting For Mangtso” (WFM I, WFM II and WFM III ) on this blog-site.
What I would like to do in the next essay is uncover the more immediate causes of this September’s mini Cultural Revolution in Dharamshala, and the earlier undermining and enfeebling of the Tibetan Youth Congress and the Gu-Chu-Sum Association of Former Political Prisoners. I believe all these events are interconnected and point to an underlying scheme to weaken, even terminate the Tibetan struggle. I will also lay out a simple course of action that all Tibetans can take to save our democracy and make the exile-parliament and administration answerable to the exile public and heedful of the desire of those in Tibet for an end to Chinese rule.
_____
* “Lonchen” was the traditional term used in Tibet for prime-minister. The term “Si-lon” was adopted in 1926 when Langdun Kunga Wangchuk became prime-minister. Samdong Rimpoche started the trend of Tibetan prime-ministers creating ever more grandiose titles for themselves, e .g. kalon-tripa , sikyong.
It is disappointing to learn that we Tibetans are even more superstitious than the superstitious Bhutanese at this time. Thank You Jamyang Norbu la for telling it like it is! It is also nice to know that TNC will fight for true democracy for all Tibetans because it is the right thing to do.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama worked many years to bring democracy to Tibetans and a hand few people are turning it into a dictatorship. But I believe future generation will bring the real democracy His Holiness believes in. These people do nothing but just yap yap yap but no action on Tibet. Shame on Speaker Penpa and his cronies with their wolf pack tactics of respectable Tibetan patriots.
It was stupid of speaker Penpa to go give such an interview. Even if he believed in it 100%, thats not something you say it to puublic.Its only going to freak people out and they think you are still in the dark ages. But, its a different matter altogether that its a known reality that a skilled meditatior can actually control the life energies of his body to live long and also choose exact day and time of leaving this earth.Not only that but having realised higher consciousness, ability to chose where he/she would be reborn in next life. most people at this time and age do not believe in this kind of things so why put off people with such utternaces. and frankly there are not many who can acheive this and its not just the high lamas and tulkus who can achieve this. just anybody can and have the potential. All this has got nothing to do with religion. But we have made into a religion and i agree mixing all this with politics is toxic.
Please Sikyong transfer Norbu Tsering to Tokyo.
Well said!
In the same way that our Parliament sinks to the carnivalesque standards of pro wrestling by interpreting the rulebook differently at different times of the game or the season, there’s no credibility in applying the rules in a vindictive context designed to satisfy a speaker’s ego. For the sake of its own integrity, His Holiness has a moral and ethical obligation to remind the Speaker publicly to place principles before personalities….and please send Norbu Tsering to North Korea,paradise for this sad sack.
Other than the obvious lack of political parties in this system of “democracy with Tibetan characteristics”, it seems to me to also feature a more uniquely Tibetan phenomena that I would describe as being the house speaker cast in the role of a “political tulku” – sitting aloft at the head of the parliament and lording over the proceedings in the manner of a powerful rinpoche over his gonpa.
Unfortunately, based seemingly on the simple similarity between the seating arrangements of a parliament and a monastery and the height of one’s chair / throne, the ingrained Tibetan culture of subservience has been transplanted from the socio-religious setting of the monastery to that of a supposedly modern parliament through the position of the speaker.
Presiding over all in the parliament, your speaker has a lot to say of a political nature. This is at odds with how the speaker’s role is caste in mature democracies where the speaker facilitates the protocols and proceedings of parliament and allows a fair airing of views in a neutral manner. In short, the speaker works for the parliament and should be barely noticed, and when noticed it should be only for the quality of his/her conduct of fair and efficient parliamentary proceedings. This extends beyond the parliament, where, whilst respected, the speakers of mature democracies are never trundled out to speak about anything of a political nature. In contrast, your speaker trips around the world and has a lot to say on exile politics as “the Speaker” outside the parliament.
Tibetan democracy is needed, but right now it is not even close to what it should or could be. No cigar. Improvements required.
Thank you JN la.
I don’t know what to believe in anymore. I am sure there are many out there who are like me. Confused. I liked the Tibetan struggle back then, when the whole Tibetan diaspora had just one struggle and one voice – Bhoe Rangzen. Why can’t we just leave it there?
I am definitely against anyone who think they can tell me I have to think in a certain way. I have my own intelligence and I am sure I can make my own decision, thank you. And to say you can’t do this or say that because HHDL will be hurt is being so childish. It simply brings us to the end of a discussion or a debate. Period.
In a democratic society everyone has the right to criticize the body governing the society. If there is no criticism – stagnation creeps in leading to corruption and nepotism. Ultimately the society starts to decay. Any representative or a leader who cannot take criticism cannot lead or represent the people in a constructive way. They should step down and give way to more open-minded and able person(s).
No matter how confused I am right now, my vision is but clear as it has always been – “Bhoe Rangzen”.
I don’t know much about Bhutan or her politics but if Jamyang Norbu is right, the king is a very progressive individual, quite impressive.
Ok, it seems more plausible that The Speaker is just carrying out orders discharged by Kundun. Who seriously entertains the idea that this is a solo act carried out by Penpa Tsering, he gone loco, going off on his own?
As I watched that youtube video of Chithue Dhardon Sharling admonishing her fellow parliamentarians of fingering pointing and scapegoating, I couldn’t help but notice that Sharling’s every exclamation received vigorous affirming nods from, surprise, surprise, Kalon Dolma Gyari. Just maybe then, many of our elected parliamentarians do agree with what Chithue Dhardon Sharling said but are too cowed by the fully retired one.
#3
While I agree with the thrust of your over all comment one line in particular left me feeling somewhat befuddled. You wrote; “But, its a different matter altogether that its a known reality that a skilled meditator can actually control the life energies of his body to live long and also choose exact day and time of leaving this earth.”
Really? It’s a known reality that a skilled meditator can control his life energies to live as long as he wants? Where is the evidence for this beyond “stories”? Name one “skilled meditator” or even a famous tulku living longer than the average person in the West? (life expectancy being higher in developed countries than not.) If such a thing is true, why was the mortality rate of Tibet pre 59 so high?
If such a thing is true, surely, we could produce ONE exceptionally long lived skilled meditator in our history since our society is so fortuitously brimming with Tulkus, but where is this immortal skilled meditator in our midst? Or maybe they all decided not to live longer than regular humans since living longer might give away the game, or maybe its about compassion again, maybe because of deep compassion they all decided to live no longer than mortals do. If so, how very convenient.
And what does “life energy” really mean? calories? Heart that pump blood, lungs that oxygenate the body, brain that regulate? or something completely different? Of Chakras? Chi? “life force”? midi-chlorian?
Sorry to call you out, but do we really want to perpetuate such myths in our society, which if believed, will influence our politik, our policies, as it does now, which you admitted it too.
This may seem trivial to dwell on but it really isn’t. If we accept things without good evidence for them, we not only fool ourselves and others, but we also embolden the pious frauds in our community, giving them cover for even more egregious claims, like; “His Holiness had decided to live only to the age of 108 years” and other such hogwash.
Even if Kundun lives to 113 years, and I hope he does, that still fails to prove anything significant as many individuals around the world have lived that long, or longer, with nil skill in ana pana sati.
Respected Khewang Jamyang la,
Well done. you are the man, who dare to speak-up. we need more Tibetan people as like you. Would you please translate into Tibetan version, more elder Tibetan people will understand, what is reality going on in our Tibetan exile Government. Thank you…
BOE GYALLO. BOE RANGZEN…
“A comparison of the relative progress of our two political systems might be in order,” – A good starting point Jamnorla.
The main reason for Bhutan’s progress is the formation of ‘actual political parties’. So instead of the Cultural Revolution style of ridiculous ‘thamzings’ it is business as usual of parliament ‘actually’ holding debates.
“In an interview with AFP, the new Prime Minister, and Lonchen* Tshering Tobgay was critical of GNH: “I’m skeptical on how it has been overused by some people and how they have been distracted from the real business at hand,”
In our case this happens MOST of the time….just fill in the many gaps and instances by our political officers too lazy to think for themselves and ‘the business at hand’ and using the good office of HHDL to hide behind. AND sometimes this ends up with such howlers as did our honourable speaker in the interview with the Hindustan Times… Yeah —PLEEEAASE don’t let this become the painful joke.
Chithu Penpa is becoming so rediculous. The more these people talk against JN and other Rangzenwalas, the more i become fan of those people.
When they make stupid statements, people like Kurshid Alam get disgusted and leave our support.
Thats what Samdhong made him do– The guy is a Samdhong Chamcha.
Wake up, speak up and rise up against those commubnist Tibetan.
Anyog
Two main points:
Firstly, think generally about the deeper issues that lead to such discrepancy between the “government” systems of Bhutan and the TGIE. There is an incredible focus on education amongst the Bhutanese with the establishment of government scholarships to educate their people in other countries such as the US where they learn about democracy on a first hand experience basis. For instance, the current prime minister of Bhutan went to the University of Pittsburgh on such a scholarship. The royal family, of course, went to the UK or the US for their studies. The Bhutanese are equally religious, however, their focus has not been preoccupied largely by religious rigmarole.
Secondly, the TGIE is but a simple exercise in democracy. There is NO chance that this system will be transplanted to the people in proper Tibet (talk about paternalism). The TGIE is but a NGO and frankly, whether it is democratic or not, should have little to bear on the substance of what they should aim to do: assist with education, livelihoods of those in the Indian subcontinent.
Greater investment should be on education that should in the long term not only benefit the community at large but will avoid the problems discussed by Norbu.
It is evident that the few parliamentarians who did speak up, although indirectly, against the deplorable spectacle that the majority including the speaker made of the Tibetan exile politics were female. I am atleast happy to see that the female representatives have proven to be the more progressive here and need not remain a minority in the halls of power. All for gender equity, fairness and progressive thinking; much needed to wake up our communities in diaspora to stand up as ONE to fight for what is right – Tibet for Tibetans and Tibet by Tibetans. Truth has no middle path and does not equate violence. Stand up for justice everywhere!
How sad and shameful. If given the chance, I think, we Tibetan can easily outdo worst kind of people while saying semchen thamchen … bla bla bla… What a fuckedup mess!
Thank you Jamyang la for smashing my bliss of ignorance!
Do You Know this??????
Chithu Penpa Tsering is called the new Oracle of Tibet called “Amdo Nagpo.” He can foretell what JN wrote in his article without reading it.
Amdo Nagpo khe la chak tsel lo!!!
Anyog
Whats wrong, if someone is prosecuted for not obeying the rule of law. MWA is core policy for resolution of Tibetan issue vis a vis China at this juncture. Nobody should be allowed to dilute this policy by bringing in Rangzen elements. Nobody will have no objection to raise if KC say anything outside of parliament as an individual. Thank god, the speaker is not that radical if I were in his place I would have booted out formally. You can’t shit in plate you eat regularly. Indians have never tolerated pro-Pakistan or China or at time US politics.
@17 Karmat, If the Parliamentarians were opposed to what KC said, then why did they kept quite on the day he made that statement? Why did they thought it was OK to attack KC months later, after they were told by Penpa Tsering that DL was hurt ?
Anybody who is against Tibet’s Independence (RANGZEN) is friend of China and therefore enemy of Tibetans.
Is this really about democracy? or just trying to score some point against those who do not agree with you and democracy is the miley-cirus titbits to gather the crowd.
Whatever the intention…if it helps better functioning of CTA i am all for it.
Tibetans are still living in 17th century mentality.
I have never heard or seen this much hatred even towards Chinese by our Chitues.
This could well be used by Chinese to mock the exile democracy.
DOING THE SAME THING OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN, HOPING FOR A DIFFERENT RESULT IS WAS WHAT EINSTEIN HATED MOST. WORSE IN OUR CASE. TIBETAN LEADERSHIP IS NO DIFFERENT THAN THEIR COUNTERPART IN BEIJING, BENT ON SELF-SERVING AND FINDING SCAPEGOATS BEHIND THE CLAOK OF GADEN PHODRANG AND SAMDHONG TONGPA NYID.
IF THE TIBETAN PARLIAMENT HATES WHAT IS HAPPENDING IN BHUTAN, MAKE IT UP WITH LAWS TO IMPLEMENT PARTY SYSTEM GOVERNANCE.
MAY BE IT WILL BE AGAIN LET TO KARMA CHOEPHEL TO TAKE THE LEAD, AND PERHAPS SHARLING AND KOREN WOULD SECOND THE MOVE SO THAT WE HAVE A PARTY BASED ELECTIONS NEXT TIME.
OF COURSE, IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT TNC SHOULD SEEK REGISTRATION WITH THE ELECTION COMMISSION,AND LOOK FOR CANDIDATES WITHOUT DELAY.
MY HUNCH IS THAT HIS HOLINESS WILL HAVE TO ULTIMATELY PAVE THE WAY FOR PARTY REGISTRATION BY ISSUING A MUCH NEEDED DECREE.
THE TIBETAN POEPLE, ESPECIALLY WHOSE FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE GIVEN THEIR AT THE AFTER OF FREEDOM AND INDEPENDENCE, WILL NEVER FORGIVE THE CURRENT PATHETIC SITUATION IN DHARAMSALA.
RANGEN FOR EVER!!!
Indian Fakir Mahatma had rightly put “What difference does it make to the dead,the orphans,and the homeless,whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?”
Fundamentalists are angry with Penpa Tsering that he allowed Karma Choephell to offer his clarification.
If he didn’t let this thamzing, he knows he will be seating where Thupten Lungrik is seated and Thupten Lungrik will be holding the gravel.
The real masterminds, my friends are not really the people who are in the front. It is a result of powerful people who are pulling the strings from behind the curtain for this puppet show. ( not just Samdhong Rinpoche)
” Et tu, Brute.” ” Even you, Brutus ? “
His Holiness had devolved his political power to advance our democracy, and for Chithue Tsoktso Penpa Tsering to make public (that also very selectively) what comments His Holiness made at the private meeting was very undemocratic to say the least! Such a dangerous man needs to be impeached, I believe!
@17karmat, the speaker and the likes:
Questions:
Does HH the DL get HURT when Tibetans are exercising their democratic rights and freedom of speech?
Is it worth a dime to fight over whether a Buddha or an enlightened being or a GOD get HURT? Leave such debate for a philosophy lecture room or for leisurely pursuit even.
If HH the DL can reduce or control how long he will live, can he PLEASE find and release the missing Penchen Lama or the thousands known and nameless Tibetan political prisoners suffering torture in Chinese prisons?
Shouldn’t our parliamentarians be actually having some heated debates and discussions around how best to help release the political prisoners – who are actually sacrificing their lives for the cause of Freedom and Justice – through whatever peaceful means (doesn’t have to be called Middle, I hope to be approved!)? Middle path lovers don’t seem very peaceful to me wasting precious times in bringing down their own brothers and sisters in combat!
And
And
And
But not a mythical oracular question on how long will I live?
Let’s go to sleep with, “is one person’s life worth more than millions of lives”? Here I mean a human versus human…..
@17karmat, the speaker and the likes:
Questions:
1. Does HH the DL get HURT when Tibetans are exercising their democratic rights and freedom of speech?
2. Is it worth a dime to fight over whether a Buddha or an enlightened being or a GOD get HURT? Better still, if someone is all loving Buddha, does it feel hurt at all? We can leave such debatable topics for a philosophy lecture room or for leisurely pursuit even.
3. If HH the DL can reduce or control how long he will live, can he PLEASE find and release the missing Penchen Lama or the thousands known and unknown or nameless Tibetan political prisoners suffering torture in Chinese prisons?
4. Shouldn’t our parliamentarians be actually having some heated debates and discussions around how best to help release the political prisoners – who are actually sacrificing their lives for the cause of Freedom and Justice – through whatever peaceful means (doesn’t have to be called Middle, I hope to be approved!)? Middle path lovers don’t seem very peaceful to me wasting precious times in bringing down their own brothers and sisters in combat! Violent and unpleasant thoughts or words are not peaceful and they do breed violence….
5. And
6. And
7. And
8. But not a mythical oracular question on, “how long will I live? “.
Let’s go to sleep with, “Is one person’s life worth more than millions of lives”? A human life form versus human life forms.
Hi dear friends first we have to recognize our position. Is this possible our democracy to be compare other full democratic Independent country. But member of tibetan parliaments and sykon have not been stopped free speech and thought because we are here and there comments???????????
Dear JN, I enjoy reading yours opinion even though I don’t agree on everything you write. But this time you have gone out of proportion by comparisons like cultural revolution eventhough you were quick enough to underpinned the pioneer to certain nyima woeser. Needless to say what was cultural revolution but I find it insulting and devoid of intellectual honesty and integrity. My humble request is let the objective and calmed Jamyang Norbu speak and not the one who is enraged and unsettled emotionally.
Thank you Jamyang la. Keep it up please.
I am glad you mentioned that the Bhutanese royal family members do not vote so as not to appear to take side of either party. Our people need to understand that undue influence, whether it’s from God himself or from the Devil, is not good for democracy. Our democracy is new like a baby and it needs to be nurtured. It should be receiving the pounding it’s getting from some of our leaders.
By the way it is nice to see that the discussion here is becoming so much more civil and more rational. This means I can send the link to friends without feeling ashamed. I have friends who were so shocked by the languages in the comment section that one of them asked me not to forward it to her. This one I can send. I think. I hope.
SHOULD NOT
As a Bhutanese, it is an ultimate insult to compare our democracy to your democracy. You don’t have democracy. You Tibetans have theocracy in fact with a democratic facade. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
Sometime back I was listening to a VOA Tibetan service broadcast. Lodi Gyari was talking.
It was about His Holiness the Dalai Lama being awarded D E M O C R A C Y award by National Endowment for Democracy in U.S.
Gyari told VOA and through VOA all the Tibetans that, at the International Airport before His Holiness embarked on His flight back to India, His Holiness told all of them that of all the A W A R Ds He had received including Nobel Peace Prize, He felt the H A P P I E S T to receive D E M O C R A C Y award.
I am not making this up. Lodi Gyari is still very much alive and it is on record.( perhaps, one can find the same statement or sentiment in His Holiness’ acceptance speech in the NED award ceremony documents.)
Now the question is: Why are the clowns around him are making him into a different creature ? Tell us who is really making him look bad ?
It is strange, Lodi Gyari is saying it is Samdhong Rinpoche. Lobsang Sangay is saying it is Lodi Gyari.
Dawala tashi delek. You said our democracy is new like baby yet we just celebrated the 52th Anniversary of Tibetan Democracy Day. So many statements were send out on that day by Lobsang Sangay, CTA, Women’s Association, Kashag all saying what a genuine democracy we have and how great is the democratic vision of HHDL. The first democratic elections in Bhutan began in 2007 actually but within that short time frame the Bhutanese were serious about their democracy and that is why after only 6 years the Bhutanese have a true democracy by the people for the people. If you mean new like baby as in a retarded baby and that is how you are comparing our democracy and a new baby I get what you are saying.
The question is not how old or which democracy and so on…. Just google what is democracy or go to legitimate UN sites for confirmations. We should provide feedback as to whether – our leaders a.k.a the parliamentarians and the host of others – they are upholding the true visions the HH the DL had when promoting true Democracy to slowly but surely replace a theocracy (based on sort of a monarchical system really) that gripped Tibet for centuries. Time to let go……
The transition won’t surely be a smooth ride. However the pace at which we are shown to be at with the mannerisms demonstrated by many of our current parliamentarians as clear from this blog article, we seem to be stepping on each other’s toes going backwards. That’s the FEAR and that’s what is at stake. We must all be reasonable and provide feedback, be open to receive one or two in order that we have a participatory democracy including freedom of speech for Tibetans everywhere. And don’t forget, millions in Tibet do not have that privilege NOW.
There are major flaws in our so called “democracy”, and until and unless there is an over haul of this system, we will never change for the better. We can talk and discuss and rant and write, but at the end of the day, the business at hand will not have changed. We need to have serious corrections and amendements undertaken rapidly and affirmitively. I highly doubt any support will be come from the rubber stamping parliament of the CTA. The real change will have to come from the outside begining with TNC, whose party membership will determine its possibility.
Yes, we need to learn from the Bhutanese in how successfully they have truely accomplished planting the roots of true democracy, while still cherishing their Kings.
Yes, And don’t forget, millions in Tibet do not have that privilege NOW, and don’t forget that Tibetans in Tibet will never have the privilege of living in a true democratic society as our leaders from Mcleod Ganj have already given up the demand for democracy for Tibetans in Tibet. Our leaders like Lobsang Sangay say they are satisfied with the current rule of the Chinese regime if China allows very limited autonomy with time limit. HHDL may have introduced democracy in exile but I am not sold on the idea that he is promoting true democracy. I think HHDL only want and only need the one idea of democracy, MAJORITY RULE, and that’s it because he knows he has majority consent already so HHDL isn’t risking too much. However a full genuine democracy with multiparty, freedom of speech, pluralistic views, those would threaten HHDL’s stature and allow people to question his policies. This will not be tolerated for obvious reasons so that is why the karma chophel situation occurred and TYC bullied back in the fold of MW. I hate to say but under HHDL, even Tibetans in exile, never mind Tibetans in Tibet, will ever enjoy full democracy and be free from monk rule. Lot of chubby monk chitues in the parliament is what I always see when watching live webcasts of the exile parliament proceedings. Unless we force Dharamsala to implement true democratic reforms, they will never take the initiative on their own as Kesang la said above. This is so obvious now that no one has to be convinced I hope.
@31
keep your mouth shut.
@ 31 – How ’bout PEMA LAM next time.
One monk chitue during this session demanded more respect for monks as he lamented that statues are getting more respect than monks.
No objections to both @35 kesang and @ 37 rangzenwalla: great points and well said
What is majority can change too and minority can become majority or there could be several majorities and then partnerships for good cause etc.. The beauty of practicing democracy is also in allowing dialogues, educating others ( not brain washing or using false influencing tactics ), feedback system, accountability set up, freedom of thought and political opinion or having several forums again and again. One time majority or one time result from a public forum is not sufficient to decide on a fate of a nation, in this case, Tibet’s.
What was decided do not remain and can not remain as the absolute truth. May I say, change is the constant truth…..
#17
Karmat, you wrote – “Whats wrong, if someone is prosecuted for not obeying the rule of law.”
You are in a way proving Jamyang la’s point that CTA democracy is a farce. I don’t think you know what you are saying when you talk of “rule of law”. You should read George Orwell’s Animal Farm. Dissention is not tolerated on the farm and “Napoleon is always right”.
“MWA is core policy for resolution of Tibetan issue vis a vis China at this juncture.”
We have been at this juncture for so long, we need to move on, as our brave sisters and brothers in Tibet are using their bodies to light (pun not intended) up the way. Incase we didn’t get it, some of them even left behind notes.
“Nobody should be allowed to dilute this policy by bringing in Rangzen elements.”
How can one dilute anything that has already gone flat?
“Nobody will have no objection to raise if KC say anything outside of parliament as an individual.”
Parliament did not elect KC la, his constituents did. So if anyone has the right to “prosecute” KC la, it is his voters – by not voting for him next time.
“Thank god, the speaker is not that radical if I were in his place I would have booted out formally.”
So you are a Middle Way radical? You must be one of them who made those anonymous phone calls to United Sherpa Association during Jamyang la’s talk. Too bad it did not work.
“You can’t shit in plate you eat regularly.”
Nobody likes to eat shit all the time.
“Indians have never tolerated pro-Pakistan or China or at time US politics.”
Your saying so doe not make it true.
Rangzen for the people of Tibet!
I didn’t hear a monk chitue demanding more respect although I believe you karze la. If the monk wants my respect I say, first get a real job like everybody else in the society and then we can talk about respect.
there is ripe overgrown piglet(actually resembling a boar) who hasn’t read nor heard anything about this article…but has been reported to be complaining about it’s content privately,I have wondered for some months if this person has access to ‘divine knowledge’ or is just another huckster in Dhasa.
#33 Rangzenwallah Tashi Delek
I didn’t mean retarded when I was comparing our democracy to a newborn baby. I meant the democracy that started when His Holiness devolved his political position and Tibetans elected Lobsang Sangyay. Although at this point “retarded” is too mild a word to describe what stewards democracy that Tibetan exiles have selected seems to be too busy playing salem witch hunters. When Karma Choephel is burnt at the stake these righteous people will sprout wings and fly.
It would be interesting to hear what those who are represented by penpaT and karmaC had to say about their behaviour.
Jamyangla, thank you tremendously for the numerous enlightening articles, including this critically needed oen. Urge you to lead TNC fervently into a future political party for a much needed reform in our society.
I am positive you can garner huge support among especially the younger generation, in building the strength for TNC, as you have so ably founded. As a founding member of other important organizations you have founded, i.e. green book, mangtso etc; TNC will have a lasting impact for establishing true democratic principles.
With Rangzen as our ultimate cherished goal, TNC will honour all the heros and martyrs who have died and suffered for Tibet; and awaken those asleep in rising up to the call for Rangzen.
Our obligation to green book taxation was originally intended for exile welfare and Rangzen implications. It was not for a MWA association with China. Ironically, you were the founder of this hugely important sector for CTA, which now embraces the exact opposite political ideals of what it was originally intended for.
Tell me aside from suporting the deserving welfare of our people, why should I as a Tibetan continue to pay my taxes and support the CTA which has abandoned the Rangzen struggle?
@# 13 – you said: “The TGIE is but a NGO and frankly, whether it is democratic or not, should have little to bear on the substance of what they should aim to do: assist with education, livelihoods of those in the Indian subcontinent.”
But I thought greater standards of democracy, transparency & accountability were expected from NGOs – don’t ya think?
And yes I agree with your point about “Greater investment should be on education that should in the long term not only benefit the community at large but will avoid the problems discussed by Norbu” –– QUALITY – and with high standards from the teaching faculty.
Looks like the Middle Way policy has made it ever so hopeful.
have a dekko here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/02/china-censoring-dalai-lama_n_4198776.html?ir=World
Ever wondered loudly, why the green book is till date also known as Rangzen lag deb?
The most contentious chaos created irresponsibly by people like Jamyang Norbu and Karma Chophel, birds of a feather flock together, in the exiled society would have very little impact for the Chinese government to alleviate its repression on Tibetans inside Tibet. However, it has indeed helped the exiled society by creating a rare stage for those who are angry at the Dalai Lama to vent out their dissatisfaction and ill feelings toward him. Interestingly, as everyone sees it here, the number is high. It has demonstrated, in a way, that there are so many Jamyang Norbu followers in the limited environment of the exiled society. Most of them happen to be English speaking Tibetans growing up in Exile society. After all, it is all your right to whom you follow and which path you opt; however, i can assert that people like Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choephel cannot lead you to get anywhere! If you disbelieve me then give it a try! If Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choepphel have something achievable to show you, the bunch of their followers, then it is the time to come out to demonstrate your capabilities and power instead of shouting empty slogans while hiding at a safe place somewhere in Nashville, Tennessee. I assert that people like Jamyang Norbu, Karma Choephel and their bunch of followers will not help anything solve Sino-Tibet issue but to cause more sufferings and grievances to Tibetans living inside Tibet! If merely talking something unrealistic and closer to mirage would help ease the pains and sufferings of the Tibetans in Tibet then the world would not have filled with injustices and sufferings. I would like make another assertion that what the most exiles eat and
shit in their daily lives is obtained through the great benevolence of the HH the Dalai Lama, not from Jamyang Norbu Gangs. I firmly believe and predict that we all, one day, would realize how much HH the Dalai Lama has done for not only Tibetans, particularly Tibetans living in exile, but also to the world as a whole. People like Jamyang Norbu could die tomorrow and will not leave even a bit trace! 6 million Tibetans living in Tibet wish to get the blessings of HH the Dalai Lama, but not from Jamyang Norbu. No one in Tibet, surely, knows who Jamyang Norbu is. To be frank, to this day I have never read any of his articles and had not heard of him. We have so many wise and intelligent Tibetans inside Tibet than English speaker Jamyang Norbu. The followers of Jamyang Norbu and Karma Choephel actually continue to enjoy watching Tibetans inside Tibet to burn themselves until the last one. What people like JN and KC propagandize and evangelize have proved it.
Having read the article by JN, I cannot step aside to let people maliciously accuse HH the Dai Lama of groundless allegation! I had long thought that these Exiled Tibetans who had grown up under the protection of his wings and warmth would always stand up to speak for and defend him! Unfortunately, I have only seen a few of them! HH the Dalai Lama has Worked tirelessly and enthusiastically for the well being of 6 million Tibetans, particularly for those Exiled Tibetans who are the direct beneficiaries of the presence of he HH the Dalai Lama! I think we should all pay due respect to him, not only in terms of religion, but also a great leader!
@25
1. Does HH the DL get HURT when Tibetans are exercising their democratic rights and freedom of speech?
Generally not. But it did and does when His core efforts which is shared by majority (its laws by our charter) is condemn to further vested interests or gain political mileage.
2. Is it worth a dime to fight over whether a Buddha or an enlightened being or a GOD get HURT? Better still, if someone is all loving Buddha, does it feel hurt at all? We can leave such debatable topics for a philosophy lecture room or for leisurely pursuit even.
Here comes the reality checking -HHDL is not type of GOD you are imagining. He is capable reacting or proacting things (human elements) when needed. It is good so. Some of these he could only have done and have been shaping our developments especially political whether you like it or not. And it has been correct last time when a group planned to change CTA ‘s MWA policy with the help of parliament. But I am not saying everything He said or reacted in the past have been right.
3. If HH the DL can reduce or control how long he will live, can he PLEASE find and release the missing Penchen Lama or the thousands known and unknown or nameless Tibetan political prisoners suffering torture in Chinese prisons? . But not a mythical oracular question on, “how long will I live? “.
This example is irrelevant. HHDL was simply saying how much control he has over his own life. This is one of most profound result of Tibetan Buddhist practitioners for centuries. You need to get in to know more. Even if you are not Buddhist you can deductively draw such conclusion. Even science is catching up with this -where are you? It seems it is typical symptom of a lost generation in exile. You should help yourself to get to know more of this sooner than later.
@18
@17 Karmat, If the Parliamentarians were opposed to what KC said, then why did they kept quite on the day he made that statement? Why did they thought it was OK to attack KC months later, after they were told by Penpa Tsering that DL was hurt ?
Indeed it is quite pathetic situation. They have failed to react properly to this situation. I equally blame everyone including Kalons on this. It is not because I do not desire Rangzen. I do but we have created a system with rules and regulation. They are actually as much culprit as KC’s overture was. Everyone may get disillusion including China when Rangzen debates are allowed in the formal forums like Tibetan parliament in exile.
Anybody who is against Tibet’s Independence (RANGZEN) is friend of China and therefore enemy of Tibetans.
I don’t agree with this. It is a nonsense. This is reactionary stuff. Everyone will agree that Rangzen is our highest political aspiration for Tibet including HHDL. But at the same time we know it is not achievable at this juncture.
@41
Karmat, you wrote – “Whats wrong, if someone is prosecuted for not obeying the rule of law.”
You are in a way proving Jamyang la’s point that CTA democracy is a farce. I don’t think you know what you are saying when you talk of “rule of law”. You should read George Orwell’s Animal Farm. Dissention is not tolerated on the farm and “Napoleon is always right”.
Democracy without procedure and rules will turn out to be autocracy. Yes, Rangzen can be discussed not within the formal forum whose policy has been MWA. I said more on implication of this above.
“MWA is core policy for resolution of Tibetan issue vis a vis China at this juncture.”
We have been at this juncture for so long, we need to move on, as our brave sisters and brothers in Tibet are using their bodies to light (pun not intended) up the way. Incase we didn’t get it, some of them even left behind notes.
This can be a relevant point of debate -timings. But at this situation, policy makers think it is still not ripe enough to drastically change the policy. They key messages are coming from Tibet.
“Nobody should be allowed to dilute this policy by bringing in Rangzen elements.”
How can one dilute anything that has already gone flat?
“Nobody will have no objection to raise if KC say anything outside of parliament as an individual.”
Parliament did not elect KC la, his constituents did. So if anyone has the right to “prosecute” KC la, it is his voters – by not voting for him next time.
KC never consulted his constituency to what he was going to say. Even if he did, they agreed. It is only fraction of the mandate. Parliament (majority) including Kalons would have definitely reacted to this. But finally HHDL had to do it. It’s a shameful precedent.
“Thank god, the speaker is not that radical if I were in his place I would have booted out formally.”
So you are a Middle Way radical? You must be one of them who made those anonymous phone calls to United Sherpa Association during Jamyang la’s talk. Too bad it did not work.
I said formally from the parliament. I will have no objections any member doing this from outside formal institutions. I will never waste my hard earn money on such silly things.
“You can’t shit in plate you eat regularly.”
Nobody likes to eat shit all the time.
This is subjective. Who is eating shit or plating shit. If you are indicating HHDL or CTA, you are wrong. They have no time do that. They are one who is taking the responsibility day in and day for meager salary. Tibetan people within Tibet still trust them. This is purely a disconnect that many suffer when they become financially more independent. Only you can help your self -to be antagonistic or skeptic or become more positive to help build our society.
# 51 Nomad
It’s His Holiness Dalai Lama and not Dai Lama as you have posted.
Could you enlighten us to where Jamyang la has in your words “maliciously accuse HH the Dai Lama of groundless allegation!” or is it your dishonest assumption! especially when you have corrected your earlier post of not reading the article “To be frank, to this day I have never read any of his articles and had not heard of him” and then like the Phakpa Gyakpa in Dhasa start with the criticism of the articles!…you are right with your “birds of a feather flock together”
@ 55– You bit the bulls eye. 51 doesn’t make any sense.
“Malicoiusly accuse” ahahahaha. People like him are dangerous and are against or antithetical to His holiness. His Holiness stands for honesty and reasons and advises his followers to that standards.
How those “birds with the same feather flock together” understand something they didn’t read?
hahahaha.
Why are the ones who portray themselves as religious and Buddha loving the most angry and dishonest people? Ready to distort the words of those they don’t agree without a thought. Every time someone calls out on the government and the leaders for their inadequacy these people drop the blackmail bomb. Age old favorite tool of the cowardly, the puerile, and the tyrannical people.
If you want democracy you will have to get used to hearing criticism of leaders. No one is above criticism in d e m o c r a c y. If you want to bow and prostrate before your leaders then why don’t you go to North Korea and kiss where you will be able to kiss the dear leader’s boots. You will fit there perfectly.
I cannot digest what you are demanding of me as a citizen of a democratic society. Am I supposed to be grateful to others for my life? I don’t think so. Freedom of life, liberty, property, pursuit of happiness is an inherent human right. Nobody can give it to you and nobody should have taken it from you. And if you are a Buddhist what you have (whether it’s good or bad) is your own karma. All one can do know is work for a better future for yourself and those around you with a clean heart and clean mind.
Almost all Tibetans love His Holiness as a spiritual leader. But when some imbeciles flash his name to score political points it does his name no good. So if you are a decent human being who has real love and respect for His Holiness don’t cheapen his name with “it will hurt His Holiness.” His Holiness I am sure will prefer an honest view than sycophancy.
Demanding full fledge democratic form of governance in exile is bit a joke.In order to deserve the label modern democracy, a country needs to fulfill some basic requirements….A Country.
The sad painful joke of Tibetan democracy is because we don’t have country.
HHDL is no doubt the leader of the Tibetan people, and whom we all do revere, regardless of our political preferences, or religious sect. While HHDL has acheived many an accomplishment, he has also made mistakes for which we honestly need to admit, for he is only human as anyone.
To say that Tibetans have grown up under the protection of his wings and warmth, or without him Tibetans are done for, and India and the world would have never helped Tibetans is total nonsense. That without him we would be doomed, and India and the world over would forget us is altogether incorrect and misleading.
Such views stem from blind faith ignorance, nothing more. As we hail him as a leader of the Tibetan people, we should not get too carried away. I find it amusing when folks talk about the tragic consequences if it wasn’t for HHDL. Such mindset literally denounces us as a people lacking competency, or one having no identity or brains, if it weren’t for HHDL.
If I am not mistaken, much of the infrastructure in the exile government including obtaining of asylum from the Indian Government, setting up of the settlements, education and aid, and countless other works, was the hard work and tireless efforts of many former unsung officials, working in tandem with foreign and Indian counterparts, in the early days.
While seeking truth from facts and laying it out without any embellishments, we must continue nonetheless to uphold HHDL as our unifying leader. People need to stop this kind of insane glorification of HHDL, that make us all look so stupid before this 21st century modern day world.
@ KARMAT – #53
I wrote: “Anybody who is against Tibet’s Independence (RANGZEN) is friend of China and therefore enemy of Tibetans.”
You wrote: I don’t agree with this. It is a nonsense. This is reactionary stuff. Everyone will agree that Rangzen is our highest political aspiration for Tibet including HHDL. But at the same time we know it is not achievable at this juncture.”
So my statement is “Reactionary Stuff” because Rangzen is the “highest political aspiration” for Tibetans and HHDL (your words)?
So talk of our “highest political aspiration” – RANGZEN should not be discussed in parliament? If not in Parliament, then where? In Tea Stalls and Bars?
You also wrote: “Thank god, the speaker is not that radical if I were in his place I would have booted out formally.”
Think about it. Who is being reactionary or rather nonsensical and childish?
Read your own posts again.Your views are full of contradictions even within the same sentence.
North American MP Norbu Ttsering should be posted to N Korea. Only he will be able to take the community on a wild merry go round and & still end up lording & ruling over them thanks to his kitsch & kin
Tibetans are very passionate about religion. If we have half that amount of passion for “Tibet as country” we would probably never lost our country.
Jamyang Norbu is a hero. Pen is mightier always. If you work for the CTA that’s great and praiseworthy. But as long as you are not doing it on a voluntary basis don’t keep on repeating “what is Jamyang Norbu doing for Tibet.” His legacy for Tibet is long and profound. And all of it done without compensation.
to #50 Nomad,
you stated,”To be frank, to this day I have never read any of his articles and had not heard of him.” It’s quite commendable of you to have never read any of his articles or heard about him and could still have so much opinions about him. it’s pretty obvious from your rant that you dislike jamyang norbu. however, my suggestions to you would be first go out and actually read some of his articles or books, get to know his ideas, opinions, critiques, etc. and then come to a conclusion. you should stop basing your blind and foolish assumptions on people engaged in discussions at those small tea stalls in the street corners.
These two faithheads Nomad and Karmat playing fast and loose with facts, a warped notion of social contract, ultra intolerant of opposing opinions, sometimes even revealing flashes of titillating fascist rhetoric, topped off with a whole lot of special pleading.
I seriously doubt that sophisticated middle way thinkers(assuming such an elusive creature even exist-ones that don’t need the religious angle to make their case for MW)will embrace these two as their own.
If you run out of argument, you pull Kundun out of your pocket. That is religious emotional blackmail. Some people don’t even take the time to read people’s articles but have a lot of stuff to bash him with. But what can you expect when they leader is Penpa Tsering, who famously said he does not read JN’s articles but knows it is bad. Which diety is coming in his dreams to inform him about JN articles? Or is he saying he is Madhe Tulku himself!!
Why you taking Nomad/Karmat at face value? How you know their ‘faithheadedness’? After all this long time how you (owl) so gullibile?
SAM-DHON-DUP=””In order to deserve the label modern democracy, a country needs to fulfill some basic requirements….A Country.””
No country, no modern democracy? Because it doesn’t meet YOUR Basic Requirements?
Then you could also state, no country, no voting, or no country, no exile government. A slippery slope.
And just who came up with the idea of democracy in the first place? A piece of land or some People did? Who is served by democracy, who makes us of democracy? The people or a piece of land?
@#19 – DAVENO – YES this is about discussing our democracy-in-progress.
And you are also right that some clowns are making it look bad.
We should also realize that we have a larger “audience” – especially for our politicians and public servants – judging from A Kurshid Alam’s painful comment.
So politicians and PUBLIC SERVANTS – it’s not all about your contribution of sycophancy but your duty is – – – – – – – – – – ———you should be knowing it already.
＂盲人骑瞎马＂ is a Chinese proverb, literally means “A blind man on a blind horse.” So here we have a scores of blind men on a bling horse”. How do a scores of bling men on a blind horse are adequate to seek a right direction! A colossal absurdity!
Jamyang Norbu has done it again. Nonetheless, unlike his previous manner of straightforwardness, this time he appeared to have disguised more sophisticatedly and covertly, yet more maliciously. However, he has acted as a guilty person gives himself away by consciously protesting his innocence. (རྐུན་མའི་གདོང་ན་གནོང་ཞིག་ཡོད་ཟེར་བ་བཞིན). Profoundly awakening that launching a wage on HH the Dalai Lama at first hand would throw himself in a sorry plight, he is more circumspect at this time about how to redirect and reshape his tactics to attack HH the Dalai Lama. Having cited the subject of “democracy” as his weapon, a theme seemingly reasonable, but the real thing is to sell dummy, (and off course the very foundation of the intention of a drunkard lies- not on the wine, but on the other purpose) to vilify, more accurately speaking, HH the Dalai Lama.
Apart from this, in reference to Mr. Speaker, in his words: in order to obtain public support from the Indians… Speaker Penpa Tsering gave a brief interview to the Hindustan Times…what makes me feel ridiculous is that do Indians normally vote for the speaker of the Tibetan Parliament? As a Tibetan born in Tibet and raised in Tibet, I have never got the chance to glimpse how Tibetans in exile exercise their vote procedures! Or I have misunderstood it! please be advised that someone here would elaborate the procedure for me?
He also cited a comment from an Indian paper,” …Well done Tibetan politicians in exile…continue mixing your politics with ancient religion….” Such a comment is normally full of any kind of papers throughout the world! And sometime these are irrelevant and nonsense! Why and how Jamyang Norbu is so obsessed to such comment and taking it so seriously? Is this what he himself intending to say, but dare not bring forward? This is to murder a person with a borrowed knife (A another Chinese proverb: 借刀杀人).
In terms of “Cultural Revolution”, I would say he is lucky enough not to undergo the most ridiculous movement that took place in the entire region of China. But he has obviously made an unwise mistake by applying it to the situation occurring in the exile society with an ostensible comparison. The actual Cultural revolution is much more severe than he has imagined. Suppose he were living in China at that time, the mustaches he has above his mouth could bring him a disaster as it would be deemed to be an appearance of a spy or “one of the four old ones.”
All in all, he has been so fortunate to be living in a free country where he can exercise his freedom of express, including criticizing HH the Dalai Lama and the fragile exile government. Otherwise, Jamyang Norbu could have lived in China with all his blind followers then they would realize how lucky and free they are!
Besides all these, there are still a scores of blind men ride a blind horse and running in a vase desert aimlessly.
I want to conclude this by stating that those blind men and the blind horse are far away from the reality of the true Tibetan circumstance!
@70
And what in your opinion is “the true Tibetan circumstance”?
TCL
#70 – Utter nonsense.
It seems like a delusional one calling normal people blind. But I have a strong suspicion you are a paid enemy agent trying stop Tibetan democracy from succeeding.
From Phayul :
” The exile government’s minister for Information and International Relations Dicki Chhoyang has said such counter-productive measures by the Chinese government to stifle free flow of information in Tibet will only further exacerbate the resentment of Tibetans inside Tibet.
“We are deeply concerned that such measures will give Chinese authorities free hand to intensify crackdown on Tibetans.”
What about Kalden Lodroe instigated censorship at Free Asia radio ?
@60 Dr. X
My dearest friend! Where is the contradiction?
Highest aspiration are often not achievable! It is one of them.
Our parliament is committed to MWA. China and world know this very well! No country or people will support this -we have none of the rare resources the world is after. Any deviation from this will be politically blunder. You will lose hundreds and thousands of friends and remain isolated. Who is going to take this risks?
The sad spectacle of the tibetan polity being highjacked by the Tibetan form of tea-partiers – the tyranny of the vocal minority
@76 Tibetan polity can never be hijacked temporal politics can be. What does it matter to us (normal folks) it is temporary after all.
@74
Now the Chinese really know what is going on in exile politics. They say “hypocrisy” and it really happened at radio free Asia. We talked about importance of freedom of speech, democracy, freedom of expression, but when NGABO la implemented it he got a smacked by exile authorities with collaboration from radio free Asia.
Heard from tibet that now a days, incident of NGABO was really a hot topic within officials in TAR government. It is just sad that we did not value him because he is just a simple man.
@75 Karmat
MWA is not law, it is a policy that HHDL proposed and the CTA adopted, often claiming it has majority support, without actually holding a open and fair referendum. According to a recent statement by HH 95% Tibetans support MWA, which frankly is preposterous. It is a failed policy even by his own admission.
Laws and policies are man made and therefore can be changed, either by revolution or by democratic means. Unless you are claiming MWA policy is made by God and therefore cannot be changed. Then you are a religious fundamentalist.
Besides it is not the Rangzen advocates the MWA proponents have to worry. The CTA and HH already either ignore us or try to marginalize us. You guys should focus on how to convince China to buy the MWA policy instead of telling us to shut up and blaming us for your failures.
Tibetan struggle was born out of a desire to be free of Chinese rule not to live under it. If the Tibetans inside Tibet can risk their lives by defying the Chinese right under their nose, then demanding for complete independence is the least we, living in free countries, can do.
I should remind you that in other countries, people who surrender their nation’s sovereignty to the enemy are considered traitors.
The almost witch huntlike behavior (thamzing) toward senior member Karma Choephela revealed more about those particular Tibetan parliamentarians. Their performance on camera is make up for lack of non-performance in real govt career of non govt organization govt; and unlike the lady parliamentarian Dhardonla.
Very shameful and embarrassing as a Tibetan to witness.
i mean lack of performance in real govt career of a NGO govt – those witch hunters parlimentarians.
@31PEMA LHAMO: Give me a break. Who founded the country you now call Bhutan non other than Tibetan called monk Shabdrung Ngawang Namgyal. The head Lama of Bhutan is Tibetan.
I agree that there is serious deficiency in Tibetan democracy in exile. So do Bhutan – king still hold power though not officially. You have this conservative dress policy in other countries only soldier and school children are compelled to uniform and also when was TV allowed in Bhutan not until recently.
Math is not his holiness forte. Even at the last general meeting, 40% supported rangzen. 10% more and it is dead even. Middleway is a failed policy and the only reason it is still afloat is because his holiness is forcing it down people’s throats. If he truly asks for people to freely choose their own path, it will be in the ditch right away. Blaming rangzen people is nothing more than looking for a scapegoat to cover why middleway failed. It failed because it is based on hope and bad political advice and it will continue to fail if we don’t wake up or his holiness admit that he was wrong.
# 53 KARMAT you have said – “Everyone will agree that Rangzen is our highest political aspiration for Tibet including HHDL. But at the same time we know it is not achievable at this juncture.”
Be CAREFUL what you have say – YOU CANT HAVE EVERYTHING . (Rangzen in your heart with Middle way on your mouth)
Have you forgot about recent tyranny of the Majority – of our chithues GANGING against Karma Choepela.
“You have made your bed now you must lie in it
I would caution some people’s hasty enthusiasm for the herofication of Karma Chopel without clearly comprehending what the results were from the controversy. Although we all want to root for the underdog, which is a decent thing to do if we all shared the same values of fairness, however, the psychological fight or flight responses of Karma Chopel in the parliament was thus: He fought when he should have fled, he fled when he should have fought. The aftermath was sung by Nirvana; “What else should I be? All apologies! What else could I say? Everyone is gay!
I am sure it wasn’t easy for Karma Chopel la then or that it’s much easier now to live with, for that I am sorry, but Karma Chophel freely chose to confront the issue in the Parliament, for which, many cheered. I assume that he was guided by his principles, but, in the end, did he abandoned those principles when convenient?
Excerpts of Karma Chopel’s contrition.
On Thursday during the current sixth session Chophel stated that he had written the letter of apology to the Dalai Lama, and pledged not to speak on this issue in the future.
“And that he had written a personal letter addressed to His Holiness seeking repentance.”
Tsering said that just a few days before the Parliament session, Karma Choephel had made an application to the speakers, requesting the speakers to expunge the words that he had said in the House.
KC-“I have said in the House, that has resulted in hurting His Holiness’ feelings, and I seek forgiveness, and as a symbol of that I withdraw all my statements regarding this matter in the past. And as a future pledge, I decided not to speak on this in future.”
“From our understanding, he has accepted that he made a mistake, and now he is seeking forgiveness. If he had not made a mistake, there is no reason for seeking forgiveness.”
@owl!
Do u know why he had to oppologise. It is only because of the peer pressure that our backward society has.
We r told to speak our mind, so called democracy, but when our former speaker passionately talked about his view, he was black lashed from gad hen phodrang trust, speaker, kashag, everywhere.
So what else u would do for those wrathful ones.
Jamyang Norbu has a profound and comprehensive knowledge of how feeble and tottering the Exiled Tibetan Parliament or other government body is. This is exactly why and how JN routinely finds it easy to target it. Through the following fiercer and mocking statement, one can clearly see what JN is:
“Not withstanding the facts that the exile parliament does not have any legal powers to do anything of the kind.”
As a legislative assembly body of a government, though in exile, it has been deemed to represent the people of its country. And these representatives are elected by its people, but not to be picked up by a party chairperson, which some tyrannical counties still do; therefore, JN’s mock and insolence on the exiled parliament should be condemned. Laughably, not being able to see the ulterior motives hidden behind the sun, some have become steady-faster followers of JN and tried to dismantle the already weak body that essentially needs much more cultivation.
Jamyang Norbu is incredible!
Look at how he has described those who possess a different opinion from his, “… the unstated intention was to instigate the more fanatical and uneducated elements members of exile public to take matters into their own hand…” This is how JN perceives the ordinary fellow Tibetans. “Fanatical and Uneducated”!!! He should have better called them barbarians and savage because they do not follow the guidance of famous writer Jamyang Norbu la…
How could it be possible for an egotistical person like JN to guide the public?
Another filthy one, perhaps the most vicious words one can use to describe the elder ones,“…crowd of old polas and molas who shuffled around the Gangchen Kyishong…” How did JN not realize that those people also exercise a form of freedom of expression, an unalienable part of democracy, which he has professed so dearly, in their own way?
There is Chinese proverb which might depict JN’s deed, “Magistrates were allowed to burn down houses, while the common people were forbidden even to light lamps.” (只许州官放火，不许百姓点灯).
Jamyang Norbu is incredible!
＂盲人骑瞎马＂ is a Chinese proverb literally meaning “A blind man on a blind horse.” So here we have a scores of blind men on a blind horse”. How are a scores of blind men on a blind horse adequate to seek a right direction? A colossal absurdity!
Jamyang Norbu has done it again. Unlike his previous manner of straightforwardness, this time he appeared to have disguised more sophisticatedly and covertly, yet much more malicious way. However, he still has acted as a guilty person who gives himself away by consciously protesting his innocence (རྐུན་མའི་གདོང་ན་གནོང་ཞིག་ཡོད་ཟེར་བ་བཞིན).
Profoundly awakening that launching a wage on HH the Dalai Lama at first hand would throw himself in a sorry plight, he is more circumspect at this time about how to redirect and reshape his tactics to attack HH the Dalai Lama. Having cited a subject of “democracy” as his weapon, a theme seemingly reasonable, but the real thing is to sell dummy, and off course the very intention of a drunkard does not lie on the wine, but on the other purpose, here it seemed to me that he has played a role of a murderer, who kills without shedding blood, if speaking more accurately.
Apart from this, in reference to Mr. Speaker, in Jamyang Norbu’s words, “In order to obtain public support from the Indians… Speaker Penpa Tsering gave a brief interview to the Hindustan Times…” What makes me feel ridiculous is that do Indians normally vote for the speaker of the Tibetan Parliament in exile? As a Tibetan born in Tibet and raised in Tibet, I have never got the chance to get a glimpse of how Tibetans in exile exercise their vote procedures! Or I have misunderstood it! Please be advised that would someone here elaborate the procedure for me?
He also cited a comment from an Indian paper,” …Well done Tibetan politicians in exile…continue mixing your politics with ancient religion….”
Such a comment normally can be seen any kind of papers throughout the world! And sometimes they are irrelevant irrational and people regard them as trash. Interestingly, only Jamyang Norbu is so obsessed to such comment and attach great
Importance to it and recommended it as a significant prophecy! Is this what he himself intending to say, but did not have the courage to bring forward or a random comedy! This is essentially to murder a person with a borrowed knife ( 借刀杀人: a Chinese proverb).
In terms of “Cultural Revolution”, I would say he is lucky enough not to undergo the world’s most ridiculous movement that had take place in the entire region of China from 1966-1976. But he has obviously made an unwise mistake by applying it to the situation occurred in the exile society with an ostensible comparison. The actual Cultural Revolution is much more severe and brutal than he has imagined. Suppose he were living in China at that time, the mustaches he has above his mouth could bring him a disaster as it would be deemed to be an appearance of a spy or “one of the four olds”
All in all, Jamyang Norbu has been so fortunate to be living in a free country where he can exercise his freedom of expression, including criticizing HH the Dalai Lama and the fragile exile government. Otherwise, Jamyang Norbu could have lived in China with all his blind followers then they might realize how lucky and free they are! And how life is precious for them living in the world.
Besides all these, there are still a scores of blind men riding a blind horse running aimlessly in a vast desert.
I want to conclude this by stating that those blind men and the blind horse are far away from the reality of the True Tibetan circumstance!
The Nomad
You seem to have a lot of time on your hand, why don’t you read the article again? and again and again? till you get it right,you appear to be one of those who needs extra reading to understand.
Your 700-800 words of nonsense ( except the ‘incredible’ part) is an exercise of waste on a readers time,as a penance for this waste,kindly slap your self three times and then read the article again.
our Freedom Fighters are ‘incredible’,Lhasang Tsering is ‘incredible’,Tsering Woeser is ‘incredible’ and you have added Jamyang Norbu is ‘incredible’…I agree with you.
In the next round of chitue election, the kushola community should only be represented by kushola…if we were to continue with chokacholug represention.
And North American Tib with many intelligent and educated folks should do a better job in selecting their rep.
Nomad and Chinese proverbs. Is Nomad Chinese? Nomad, is your real name Sum Ting Wong?
Nomad is just NG (next generation TB) cutting & pasting his old rubbish. He is incorrigible!
#85 owl
So Another round off online thamzing for Karma Choepela
well done.
#90
Totally agree with your first half of your very imp observation that has gone over most peoples heads all this time.
the latter is no brainer.
@94, our ageold notion that a person with solid contribution to the community (not politically) could better serve the community in our CURRENT political realm needs some re-thinking ( by NA tibetan population).
Nomad, have you lived and experience cultural revolution or thamzing yourself? If not, sit your bony ass down.
Is it true monks have the right to vote twice? If it’s true that’s so theocratic.
#97 Looks pretty theorcratic & we love to jump onto that bandwagon – right & left – dig deeper.
@90: Monastic community should stop participating in politics altogether . They should study scripture and follow the Vinaya and not indulge in luxury.
@99, They should be given equal opportunity in decision making process as a citizen and most importantly political decision which will have serious impact to their Vinaya life.
However the right to vote for their community rep and also for the cholka needs to be abolished.They should be allowed to vote for their rep. just like lay could vote for their cholka Rep.And no layman should be allowed to be a rep for kushola community.This kind of lugsol makes no sense at all.
AND NUNS? CAN THEY VOTE TWICE ALSO?
The layman that enters as rep for kushola community rules the roost.
I don’t see any kushola group other than Samdhong Rinpoche (that’s because we elected him to 10 yrs as Kalon Tripa) in important ‘task force committee’ or other important & behind the scenes decision making/governing boards. They are mainly CEREMONIAL and made highly visible.
TGIE just celebrated some 50th anniversary of democracy day – so it’s not like in old Tibet where monastic officials ACTUALLY stood side by side with lay governing officials
Now In their own spheres of religious activity they may be high profile, successful and all that and that’s what they do; whether one likes it or not.
#97 Looks pretty theorcratic & we love to jump onto that bandwagon (bashing) – right & left –
BUT – dig deeper….not quite so.
come next election and all the current members should be booted out, and let’s see if some of them get elected again for showing their gut during the current fiasco of sorts. by churning the h h the dalai lama’s wrath against the supposedly dissident, the Tibetan parliament under pempa tsering has even angered h h. poor pempa tsering, despite his speaking skills acquired over the years which people like, is being is being used by the powers that be in in in the Tibetan world. While the institution of the hh the dalai lama will not only survive but flourish like the vatican, the Tibetan administration is withering fast. unless the people wake up, and take charge by electing people who will respect and carry the true wishes of the Tibetan people in and outside Tibet, and as personified by the self-less 120 plus self immolations.
by the way, the true suppression expression of freedom of expression and speech bragged in this blog after the rfa fiasco a year ago, is not over yet. the new direftor tethong has sported in dharamsala! back in dc, kalen lodoe has been given some promotion while the director is gone. i am not a great fan of rfa and don’t have to depend on the for news and views of the world. but for the people is Tibet, rfa has become the only source of of unbiased information until last years. those who listen, please let me know the quality of the broadcasts. i heard from the party person that now rfa has become the propaganda of gaden phorang period. if rfa, a American agency, is reduced to something like xinghua, where is the hope for Tibet and Tibetans.
as for my opinion
I have lost the faith in CTA and Dalai Lama long long time ago, and to be honest, I truly understand Dalai Lama real goal and hope when he get angry when student ask his opinion about karma choephel statements about Rangzen(I hope it won’t offend any one my opinion below)
Dalai Lama real goal, is to remain the leader number one that loved and appreciated among Tibetans as will as among worlds, and of course, especialy by westerns, he enjoyed too much to be cheered by western and its clearly seems much much more important then Tibetan issue, its clear when he said, is I am a liar!!! he speak against Karma choephel angrily much morethan chinese!!! how come opinion become more offensive then killing millions!!!!
why always Dalai Lama advocate full love and kindness toward chinese when he himself never practiced with Tibetans!!! something seriously wrong here
Tibetan people need to face it, as long as Dalai Lama is a head of CTA, there is certainly 100% no democracy, no freedom of speech
penpa tsering and all other MPs who advocate violence against Rangzen, they are doing Dalai Lama wishes, stop decieving ourselves and convincing ourselves that they are the one who creating thamzing against Rangzen, its Dalai Lama wishes
The real weird thing here, is violence justified against Rangzen but totally unjusifyable against Chinese!!!! sooo weird
I am think, Dalai Lama should be the Head of religion, but not to inerefer in politics, and shouldn’t be the head of CTA, as his MWA policiy takes it so many times, and failed miserbly..so we nead a new REAL head of a state with ZERO outside infleunces or any other political prussure from any figures..this is the only way to get the REAL democracy and full freedom of speech
I feel very sad to hear you so disappointed … Mainly since HH should be a source of energy to us … almost the only one we have left.
I do understand what you say and I do understand why someone could think like that … Too many frustrating things did happen for sure, mainly you did experience it very hard as the pioneer for Rangzen direct and free speech in Tibetan society.
But Sir, I don’t experience it like you. Since the election of our Sikyong I lost all trust in our Government and concerning our Parliament president I feel very much fooled by him. But HH, I always experienced generous, loving and tolerant. I always addressed openly when I got a chance and I provoked anger of some family members but HH always was answering. But sure these were not subjects like we have now … Still I wish that we demand an Audience for the leaders of Rangzen movements and of the Youth Associations for an Independent Tibet. I feel this would be important to address directly to him, with all the things we feel unjust or not understandable … Then we can see how he will react. I believe in the sincereness of HH therefore I would be very disappointed if such an Audience would not be supported by him. We must ask for and if it get rejected we can question about the meaning … If it is possible, we can get direct answers. Every person and group has the right to seek Audience and when it comes from his people and the people who the Government calls “Troublemakers” HH should be very interested to meet. He taught us that misunderstandings and conflicts must be solved trough dialogue between the concerned ones. Please friends, lets ask for such an Audience … Refused or accepted, both is positive for the Rangzen movement. If we don’t seek dialogue with HH, someday the reaction will come, that we never tried to talk to him. It is not acceptable that the Tibetan Government and our Parliament President are using HH as tool to control us, But this will happen as long HH lives if we don’t confront directly
Please read this post fr Ngawang Yonten of Office of Tibet, NY. Indeed, Little knowledge is dangerous. I believe he is a civil servant and he is not suppose to be involved in the politics. That is against their rules– mind you little brain!
http://tibetrises.blogspot.com/2013/11/little-knowledge-is-dangerous.html?m=1
Sincerely,
Anyog
TSETEN ZÖCHBAUER
yeah, I do understand that such view is hard to many tibetans, but unfortunatly, I think its our reality
you said “It is not acceptable that the Tibetan Government and our Parliament President are using HH as tool to control us, But this will happen as long HH lives if we don’t confront directly”
yeah I agree, but, do you think really the Dalai Lama can’t stop the government from using himself to oppress Rangzen??!!!
Dalai Lama is the one who control the government, so its not possible that the government doing something he don’t want!!! so please, lets face it, its our reality, instead of denying, face it
I doubt if Dalai Lama would agree to discuss with Rangzen supporter, since he is using his government to supress Rangzen, and its clearly he is sending message that he don’t want
I would also doubt, how such talk can go while Dalai Lama get so angry when student ask him question regarding Karma Choephel statments????
I think Dalai Lama shouldn’t have any political power, he himself said that he resaign from being political leader!!!! then why MWA still forced then!!!! soooo weird
Anyog Tenpa why are civil servants not allowed to air their opinions on political subjects as you said about Ngawang Yonten, i ask because I do4t know if such a thing is true or not so if you know please share your information. Also, Ngawang Yonten said “Does he care about understanding the reason behind why His Holiness the Dalai Lama repeatedly said that we do not need political parties?” Does any9one know if this is true? If it is true, what are the reasons?
Jamyang la can you tell me name of this Wild goat like animal in Kham which is now under threat of extinction.
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/tracking-mythical-beast-china-20825550
I remembered I have heard from somewhere on this blog about something like that He – important govt official must be anticipate His Holinesses thought and wishes. I am just now thinking that high important and powerful of our govt members -was over reaching and out- doing their anticipations for the executions of their jobs & duties.
I don’t think it’s against CTA public servants protocol to express political opinions. I hope not.
But I am sure there should be a rule against foppery. What this guy wrote shows his own lack of knowledge of democracy. It shows how dangerous it is for Tibetans to have close minded dishonest firebrand like that as leader.
Ngawang Yonten is a damn Tibetan Archie Bunker minus the honesty.
Thanks for sharing that Golden Takin video Karze. What magnificent looking animals! If they are going extinct its probably Medea’s fault!!
To think that if Tibet was still free then I would most likely be in my monastery penthouse loft enjoying a breathtaking view out of my east facing window, a vast herd of Golden Takin sweeping majestically over the plush Tibetan Plateau.
And pray tell, who is chasing this mighty herd you ask? Why, this guy!!
http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/tibetan_6a1a95_1639835.jpg
So far as I see it, nothing respectable has come out our shift to this New Tibetan Democracy. It should be renamed to, “Dictocracy”; a party that does not have elected political parties and uses religion and lese masjeste laws to smash any and all opposition; unlike dictators and tyrants who use torture and death. In my mind I’m thinking a Jim Jone’s style of preparations is taking place in Dharamsala. How will we protect, uphold and educate our young of the wonders of Tibetan culture and heritage, while walking straight into the demons lair to be destroyed? How so is this democracy of any value, if the MWA both claim to uphold it and denounce in one breath, accepting the terms of communist China? The drama that is unfolding in the Tibetan diaspora is so much like a chapter from George Orwell’s Animal Farm but with a Tibetan twist.
The problem seems to be this knee jerk reaction to what ever is said, be it Jamyang Norbu or anyone else. I understand it is a highly charged topic something we feel very strongly about, regardless of whether we are actively involved in the struggle or comfortably nestled within the four walls of our house. But remember this highly emotional reaction devoid of reasoning and our gullibility provide the ideal play ground for instigators to run their show, and use it to their own benefits. We all know the beneficiaries so I won’t go there. This is what writers like JN purport to overthrow. JN spends his time in front of a bright screen typing feverishly (no pun intended) to curb this kind of reaction and giving a vast number of readers the opportunities to form their own opinions by posting his essays online. That’s also the essence of a true democracy. But whether by design or not, JN also seems to be exploiting our gullibility, and has fostered a new breed, JN fanatics. I am tired of his innuendoes, taking unnecessary jabs when he knows what that ensues. I am not sure if JN realizes but it detracts from the valid arguments he makes.
The Middle Way/Rangzen debate is good I feel, at the very least, it keeps Tibetans thinking about Tibet. However, over at the Tibetsun comment section, there seems to be many who subscribe to a closed-mindedness system of epistemology. So with Colbert in mind, I assumed a Tibetan Taliban persona and wrote…
I never read jamyang norbu and I never will. Infact, I don’t read, period. Why should I read? I am Tibetan and I have buddhism to tell me what to do and how to think and live. There are people whos job it is to tell us what we should believe. I am going with that, saves me time, responsibility, and when my life is done, a favourable rebirth.
There is a saying in Tibetan Buddhism, “knowledge is dangerous” so be careful people. The best way to truly understand reality is by faith alone, and if you don’t want your faith polluted by knowledge, don’t read! It’s that simple.
My advice is no different then one of my hero, the numero uno Tibetan patriot and humble buddha fearing man, Speaker Penpa Tsering la, who told TCV students, “I don’t read anything Jamyang Norbu writes, he’s a shitdisturber!!” And many TCV students clapped!! Obviously they don’t like reading either and appreciated Penpa Tsering la officially telling them that its ok to be ignorant of other people’s thoughts and opinions when you judge them.
Im so proud of the TCV students!! I am Ex TCV myself!! Lets all give it up for the ex TCVs out there in the world, YAhhhh!! Suck it Jamyang Norbu!
Remember TCVers, if you see books at school, RUN away as fast as your fat little legs will carry you because those books may contain knowledge! Just know that the Devil is crafty, so, even if you see pretty pictures in some books, don’t be fooled!! Just run for Buddha sake!!
MWA is not law.
You most ignorant fellow with big emotive mouth.It is law, core policy and also philosophy everyone respects.
Laws and policies are man made and therefore can be changed, either by revolution or by democratic means.
Time is not yet ripped enough to change it. This is the point.
Unless you are claiming MWA policy is made by God and therefore cannot be changed. Then you are a religious fundamentalist.
I am not and am sure those who support for MWA aren’t. MWA supporter care most humble people who follow the law and their leaders. They are the one who care for Tibet.
Besides it is not the Rangzen advocates the MWA proponents have to worry. The CTA and HH already either ignore us or try to marginalize us.
It is biggest misunderstanding that we are worried when rangzen comes up. I fact we are very happy that such thins exist and it will be there as long as Tibetans exist. HHDL complains when it undermines MWA. Thats all.
Tibetan struggle was born out of a desire to be free of Chinese rule not to live under it. If the Tibetans inside Tibet can risk their lives by defying the Chinese right under their nose, then demanding for complete independence is the least we, living in free countries, can do.
This is debatable and strategic issue!
I should remind you that in other countries, people who surrender their nation’s sovereignty to the enemy are considered traitors.
We have already surrendered this for long. of course under difficult circumstances.
That was for Dr. X
JN your blog seems to be turning into a hate blog against HHDL and The TGIE. It seems like every body has a score to settle with the establishment. What about you sir? It seems like you too harbor a deep seated hatred against them as you pieces always has some element of discouraging the Tibetan oneness rather than unifying.
Karma Chomphel can’t be trusted. When I was a kid in a school, he had to leave the school after a corruption case was filed against him and I witnessed it. But than it came as a joke when I found him addressing public gatherings in Dharamshala with a real big mouth. I wondered at the fate of the man. Than came a news in which this guy had a binge of imported whiskey of which he was unable to resist at an airport and drowned himself in it. If this person was genuinely concerned about the rangtsen, he would have given a second thought before he take a sip of his poison. Therefore I don’t trust this person. Those polas and molas did a commendable job by staging that protest. How cum a tainted person like karma chomphel got into the chithue? but doesn’t matter even Lalu gets into Indian Parliament and ultimately prison.
@106 Lhasang
HHDL may have precedence of acting impulsively. But what he did last time was legitimate and have our full support. Because KC tried to make the water muddier and attempted to gain last minute popularity which he tried life time and failed. His His intellect and long political acumen has failed to predict the most predictable response that would come for this overture. Although he did manage to outsmart Kashag and parliament for six long moths. HHDL turned out to be far more braver and smarter of us all by taking the call finally. If you are the Lhasang that we all know, you should remember at pace you treated your students and people with such impulsive drive. We know you did all your things and stuffs when at the helm but met with similar fate. So you better remain quite and be repentant on what you did and aware of things you are now doing.
Karmat: please don’t try to muddy the water yourself. Nobody said anything for six months because nobody interpreted it like Kundun did. Everybody knew that is not what karma chomphel meant. But when kundun decided to misunderstand it, deliberately or not, your people decided to accept that interpretation and get all red and foamy at the mouth like the Nachung oracle. Be honest! You are a buddhist for heavens sake!
On Penpa Tsering’s take on HH deciding to live upto only 108 and not 113 because of the displeasure caused by some individuals, personally, I would rather, HH lived upto a certain age till when he can benefit people all over the world and the Tibetan cause rather than upto 113, where He is not able to function properlly. After all after the 14th comes the 15th.
@122 TSERING DOLKER I am really ashamed by what you are trying to say. You showed no iota of respect for our leader and trying to defend someone who has done hardly anything good to name it here. Do you really know what KC attempted to do last time by totally abusing his formal position. He tried that many times when SR was the Kalon Tripa. He could not dare to do it openly. He knew, SR would have given him a best of cakes to be remembered for remaining life time. But you will not agree that KC has done anything wrong. Tell me KC meant that we misunderstood. KC deliberation is in both written and oral forms for everyone to cross check. Tell me what is misunderstood that you got it correctly.
@124 KARMA how can you take this so guaranteed? People are worried about it what might happen. It all depends on 14th and his final decision. His decision will in turn depend on us and our behavior. You can’t be so casual about it. If you don’t understand this -seemingly ignorant -you are fully detached from our culture and its traditions. Please audit your cultural sense now.
I am always inspired by JN writings in revealing the true face of our Community and its leaders. At the same time there is a truth in what Jungli50yrsback mentioned earlier that ‘JN your blog seems to be turning into a hate blog against HHDL and The TGIE”. Enough was said about the backwardness of our current leaders so what we now need is a well planned strategy to bring them down and bringing in new leaders. But then, do we have enough or any Tibetans out there fully qualified to lead us in future? I love someone to come up with a list of future leaders with short bio data of each one. The religion and provincial sectarian which has been a single most cause of bringing down our nation must be eliminated. How? I am a Tibetan and I equally support TGiE’s middle way and full independence and have conflict in supporting both important movements. I hate to see the fight between the MWA and rangtsenwala. As a Tibetan I recognise the Communist regime of PRC as my number one enemy who let a lone returning Tibet back to Tibetans but won’t even consider the generous middle way offer initiated by His Holiness The Dalai Lama. To me the TGiE’s biggest wrong political move in recent time was in 2008 Beijing Olympic time in strategically discouraging all the Tibet’s activists movement around the world who tried to bring the spot light to the Chinese governement’s mess in Tibet by boycotting the openning ceremony. To JN, I want to say please stop being negative to TGiE all the times and shift your writing on the liable innovative system and policy by which you believe TGiE can best serve the Exile Community and restore freedom in Tibet – education, internatinal relation, political strategy, admistration, preservation of Tibetan culture and language etc. JN, I wish you to live long and thank you for your continous work for Tibet.
Moderator, please correct
“I am a Tibetan and I equally support TGiE’s middle way and full independence and have conflict in supporting both important movements”
I meant no conflict in supporting both ….
@KarmaT
After reading your response, I have to say one thing to you:
“Go back to your motherland China”.
I wonder why did your parents left Tibet in the first place? Apparently it is debatable they left Tibet not because they didn’t wanted to live under China. Did they just wandered into North America while herding their yaks? And why are you wasting time pretending to be a Tibetan, when you can be a perfectly law abiding citizen of PRC. You know you can be the perfect ambassador of Middle Way to Beijing.
Oh! yes! I know why you can’t… because you don’t want to lose the western market to sell your spiritualism crap.
Most of the Chitues have no balls. Some monk chitues are even joke.
Dr. X is fully misnomer. You are among people who are fully frustrated with your life. Lost your purpose and looking for a purpose howsoever radical, unachievable and divisive it may be. You become rebellious to your own roots. In the west, i have had similar phase but over come. Don’t give your anger an extra fuels by attacking others who are trying to do something good.
I have seen some opponents of Rangzen calling this a hate blog. The only hate filled remarks I see here are coming from their supporters.
What these people don’t seem to get is whether MW becomes law of the land through referendum or decree or whatever anybody has the right to criticize it. If you don’t agree with the criticism challenge it with facts. That is what serves the future of Tibet. Not fanaticism.
KarmaT: please don’t act like you have the capacity to feel shame. You know very well you are lying and I am right. You should be ashamed but you won’t be because you believe you have some divine ordinance to lie and hurt people. KarmA chomphel worked a very long time in Tibetan govt and he never disrespected his holiness. You and every member of that Chitue knew exactly what he is talking about but now when kundun says KC is a liar, u jump up like packs of hyenas to attack the poor guy. Are these Chitue members stupid or were they not hurt that much when Karma Chomphel made the statement? Feeling disgust and anger 6 months later is a little too late to pass off as an excuse. Either they donkeys or they are cunning weasels. Yes, Kundun is wrong in his interpretation. But nobody got the guts to point that out to him. That is the bottom line.
Well said Tsering Dolkarla! No one has the guts to stand up to Kundun with packs of hyenas ready to pounce. Says much about our democracy and freedom of speech! Painful Joke! Sad situation! Everyone up there is a yes man, either shit scared or blinded by faith driven loyalty. Those crooked ones obviously play the game and sing with the choir, all in a drama to benefit mainly themselves, starting with the Sikyong himself.
TDolker: It looks like we won’t able to see any end our discussion. I am still strongly withstand with my points. KC is not a poor guy to pitied by you. he know what he was doing. He wanted to get supports from people like you. And I will never agree that HHDL can’t understand what he said and what he wrote about his purpose when he was writing those prayers. You support “poor” guy’s mistakes and so easily blame the leadership being wrong. Nobody will believe you. I may be hurting one person and may be dozens foolhardy like you. But you are hurting millions -be ready to take any repercussions. The fact of matter is you are frustrated bump who are astrayed & lost (perverted values) all your senses to be a part of community.
KarmaT(yrant):
Ganging up on an individual is not democracy. It is called mobocracy. This word is not made up. It exists. Instigate a mob and snub out the discussion.
Karma Choephel is like a Greek tragedy hero, gutsy and with his own moral flaws, including his drinking – tales of which are aplenty, at airport and before a public address.
But if you read history and literature of the world, including Chinese, you will find that most of intellectuals took to drinking etc. because the corrupt political system – fooling the people in the name of faith, false loyalty was choking them. Flaws of KC’s and likes of him in Tibetan society can be attributed to our system.
That said, I agree that K.C. not a naive. He is a politician per excellence. He is highly educated in both sense of modern and Tibetan ( history, command over language).
K.C knows what he is doing. What the people in power are forgetting is that K.C. took Kargue Chithue seat, but he was also the second highest vote scorer in the primary election for two Geluk Chithue seats. Do people ever think about it ? Geluk Chithues base is Sera, Gaden and Drepung monastery. K.C. is well quote Kargue-pa. Despite that why did Gelukpa monks voted for K.C. to be their primary candidate for Geluk chithue?
Think people think. K.C. is not a ordinary drunk. There are large number of people who admire him secretly and this smart politician knows it. I must add here that he is no ordinary politician but one who wants to be remembered as a nationalist. His feeling for Tibet, like JN’s is real.
” The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.” – Abraham Lincoln.
KarmaT: I used the word (Tryant) playfully. Appreciate your participation. I respect your opinion. But you must know that people who support K.C. and his arguments are not just a handful of anti-social elements.
If people higher up, wants to get rid of K.C. by imposing monk only Chithues for choe-lugs, I can see K.C. coming back wearing a white shawl with strips of red in the corner on his chubas.
It is a shame how our society has turn out to be. People waving Chinese flag are considered hero of sort and people who stand out of Freedom of Tibet are being branded as some sort of traitor.
Well said Daveno. If you want to talk about moral flaws, chitue tsoktso Penpa Tsering is a well known drunk. Somebody should check his liver.
KarmaT: here is a simple question for you. Has His Holiness made any mistakes? If so, could you point them out for us?
I am seeing a pattern of excuse drawn out of air for someone’s behaviour that is considered a weakness for the right reason to be a good representative.A person’s behaviour is in the control of the individual and an excuse however Holly wont cut it.This is for all Rep.
KarmaT seems to be MW spokesman or some official? He also seems to know all history of individuals of Dhasa history long time.
Your arguements for popular policy of MW would be so welcome but Unfortunely this spokesman is doing very bad jobs instead with all dissing comments of well known hard work individuals of Dhasa.
@# 33 – If that become case —then also Bhutuk Gyari will be wearing white shawls with redstripes in corner and tie hair in knots.
Whether someone is drunk or has no limbs he has the right to voice his opinions in a democratic society. now if you want to go back to the dark ages and drool over your lord’s and lady’s boots that’s a different matter altogether.
KarmaT @ 130
“Dont give your anger extra fuels by attacking others who are trying to do something good”
what is that “something good” and who is doing that “something good”? I never saw any good result so far. so of course people also have reason to be upset.how you can just expect all people to self sooth with prayers and focus on money making and power climbing.
Btw, I’m not thinking that Karma Chomphel is a HERO or anything like that but I highly commend him for speaking his mind. First of all, for having the passion for our country and for exercising his right to express his thoughts and feelings. It’s a most normal to have such passionate feeling towards one’s country so i dont understand how people expect that he repress that and and that if you supress such feelings then you are some kind of wise guy. Of course many of our people have become mere survivors. At lease becoming some little bit rebellious for some good change is not that bad compared to numbing yourself with survival activities like money making tactics, power mongering and religious fear mongering things to sooth the compulsive human nature.
I do understand some of the concern here but I think MOST young people now not only have good modern education but have knowledge and experience of our spirituality. Have great respect for our culture and traditions. And if there’s faith and devotion it’s from awareness and intellect and not out of fear and blindness.
The Nomad: or should i call you Nathan now. lol
If you are some sort of lawyer, you shouldn’t make up stuff
Based on your own interpretation. Did u pass your bar exam because
your writing is incredibly lacking in good sense and honesty.
You can’t even keep your full Tibetan name proudly, talk about perserving
Culture and identity. Everybody trying to jump on the bandwagon
To promote themselves and maybe get appointed for cosy job somewhere.
Chitue Norbu Tsering, are you listening? Hayooo ta!
@DEVENO, TSERING DOLKER, TENZING Limited by time and space, we are not able to communicate and understand what we would like others to know. I am siding non. My voice is common man’s voice who is only interested to protect common goods. KC’s overture if happened outside would have applauded but he did this abusing the formal position which sacrosanct as far as our exile democracy goes. I know KC closely and even had working relations. DEVENO, Chitue’s voting pattern say not so much about a person’s capability let alone intellectual disposition. It is true everywhere US, Europe and India. So I can’t buy this argument instead he has been disowned by Utsang public who is in majority. As a public person, we can’t effort to hypocrite, stubborn and arrogant persons at the helm which dangerous to democracy. Making a blunder from as an public person not desirable or expected but should be allowed as a person which would mean his downfall is eminent which will happen sooner than later. Now he wont’ have any cover, come next election! Tenzing, the people who really contributes to our moment and stand by all seasonal upheavals are not often visible. They don’t like to come out in lime light. Those who seek such, has an agenda, often vested. So never undermine those backbone who are toiling day in day out. Of course HHDL is fallible, but he was not when he had to singled out few individuals who are becoming divisive and counter productive.
“My voice is common man’s voice who is only interested to protect common goods.”
Didn’t Jesus say the same thing?
Karmat?
Jesus??
Hello???
@OWL you only see the darkness not the lighted part of the light. It is obvious! Don’t you know Jusus has the maximum followers in the world? Didn’t he salvaged the savage West and Arab? Can you deny your family and your self (Tibetans) say that we survived on His Name? Shame on you!
@OWL you only see the darkness not the lighted part of the world. It is obvious! How should we expect you to be sensible enough to engage on such theme. Don’t you know Jusus has the maximum followers in the world? Didn’t he salvaged the savage West and Arab? Can you deny your family and your self (Tibetans) not survived on His Name? Shame on you! Don’t ever try play around with such sensitive them and make offence to one of the greatest religious group in the world. Even as devout Buddhist we have to learn so many things!
#142
“he has been disowned by Utsang public who is in majority”.
Never mind – So he got ‘accepted’ by clergy community – ALL kushola groups – actually willing to take him as a REPRESENTATIVE.
Of course naturally your assumed Identity KARMAT has nothing to do with the kushola community that Karma Choepela’s represents. Ahem!! For those in that foggy area.
“My voice is common man’s voice who is only interested to protect common goods.
“KC’s overture if happened outside would have applauded but he did this abusing the formal position which sacrosanct as far as our exile democracy goes.
“I know KC closely and even had working relations.”
” Common man, common good; abusing the formal position which is sacrosanct as far as exile democracy goes; even had a working relations.”
Come on Karma T(yrant), say that you are Chithue, like K.C. But you hate K.C.’s guts. Hence, you did Et Tu Brut ? But at the same time coming on this blog to look for adulation from modern educated Tibetan public!
What a hypocrite !
The fact that I have watched parliament debate closely, the more KarmaT writes, the more this guy is sounding like former Vice President of Tibetan Youth Congress, now in the parliament ( Not Karma Yeshi the former VOT guy) but the other one, whose attack the Rangzen follower and K.C. found most painful. After all, he claimed to be Rangzen guy, as long as it paid for him.
You wrote:
“we can’t effort to hypocrite, stubborn and arrogant persons at the helm which dangerous to democracy.”
K.C. has lot of moral failings. But compare to our Kim Jong Un Sangay and
others manipulating higher up, K.C. is an angel. Don’t take my word, just get a closer peek, with full faith and devotion. When the fish starts to rot, it starts from the head.
@Deveno147: You said KC abused his position by speaking his mind. If you can’t speak than what is the use of debate in parliament. Minorities voices also need to be listened in democracy although majorities decide.
Doesn’t debate connotes variety of opinions.
What China has not been able to do,the Central Tibetan Administration and the architects of Umey Lam will gladly do…that is to break the spirit of our people back home in Tibet.
I don’t know if I feel sorry for those who hide behind the shadows of HH or I fear for their welfare when His Holiness is not with us…….history is full of examples of what happens to people who play the game of treachery.
Right now, if you have noticed, the plan is to scapegoat jamyang norbu and other top rangzen people into being hurtful to the cause of Tibet. They can’t win on arguments, they bring gods and demons to aid them. Isn’t this the exact way Chushi Gangdruk was broken up? It was repeated again on the Gelugpas with the Shugden issue. Now this same old technique is being used against the Rangzen people. Now even people’s names are publicly said in open…only the big mouth of Penpa Tsering revealed the tragic absurd things were uttered on that fateful day. It truly disappointed me.
KarmaT
you have to know how to respect people rights of different oppinion, then come to debate and express yours
if you doesn’t learn how to respect, then its better not post your opinion at all
TSERING DOLKER
Yeah, much agreed
I suggest for the real democracy among TGIE, Tibetans need to do prolonged peaceful protest in Dharamsala around TGIE headquarter, in order to stop oppress rangzen and allow them in the government
we need to do like the Arab spring, the Arabs successfully adopt true Democracy
@146 TSUNDRUU Kushola are rightist fanatics (which you may well fall in-You and North Korea things) do not fan their sentiments -when they hijack you will only see rightist autocratic anarchy. Remember what was Tibet at the time 13th HHDL. It will prove dangerouse to our fragile democracy because monastic community has still remain same ideologically. When it comes KC’s support -it came from only narrow Kagyu banks when others have refrained voting.
@147 DEVENO So where are you? Where argument gone down just on some personal squabbles. I have no personal grudge against him. But again I shall protest when public goods or space are abused for personal gains. You will see me doing this whosoever it may be as fundamental rights. This only brought me here. Don’t bring Sangay here -it is entirely different topics. We will do it when needed.
@150 TSERING DOLKER -Oh I see this is your real face. You points are exactly raised by Lha-Tsogpa and like. So you belong there or support them. Each elements that you talked about happened in the last fifty years exactly because of maintaining regional or religious dominance. HHDL has consolidated all these fractional politics into one central command which was necessary. Tibetans are united as never ever been after the Great Fragmentations. Thanks to HHDL and his leaderships.
@151 and 152 LHASANG Where was any violation of right of anybody? I was simply expressing what I stand for. Never smash any tables from fist thud that you are used to. And carefully read my comments I have never ever expressed against rangzen or rangzen protagonist -you just pretend to be one when situation needed! Yes it should be peacefully done and mus have all the processes to convinced the public. Why CTA -go down to the public when come next elections! You could not save confused TYC GBM -how will you do it for the masses? Mere rhetorics won’t do! Also ready to bear the consequences and risks involved! Are you ready to relinquish all cosy sedentary premise that you all have build for yourselves?
@149 Tsering Topgyal
Either you don’t know or you are lying what Tibetans in side Tibet thinks.
Although I sympathize with your frustration Lhasang, yet what you are suggesting sounds rash and risky, which could easily go awry.
Peaceful or not, exile Tibetans protest against their own government? How would this look to China? To the world at large? To Tibetans inside Tibet? To Kundun? We will be seen as a joke to some, while to others, merely pathetic. Such actions will prove, to me at least, that the MW is more sophisticated than Rangzen/genuine democratic proponents because, at least the MWers see the importance of dialogue, soft power politics and the ability to present a good image to western liberal nations. But mostly because I don’t want one day to read in Phayul News that Lhansang was stoned to death in Dharamsala by an angry mob.
Please be cognizant that actions have consequences, sounds crass I know, anyway, we need to be serious, think things through without letting our emotions run riot and cloud our judgement, for surely, we can’t forget the big picture, right? We also shouldn’t forget that not every individual who supports MW are the same, unlike Karmat the frog, some can be reasoned with and are coherent I am certain.
Ofcourse I am not saying one should never protest against ones own government under any circumstance, there may very well come a time when such a gambit is the only option, or in a certain context, the most effective strategy, but this is certainly not the time, nor that context. What is more, there are other options which should be exhausted first- such as winning some Chitue seats in the next election and then fight for genuine democracy utilizing democratic processes within the exile parliament.
Lets be fair, the people who are currently in power, sans the Speaker, are there by the will of the people who cast their lot in a democratic style election. So like it or not, they have the authority to speak and act for the majority.
Ofcourse we have the right to disagree but if our reactions are no better than their heinous acts, then Karma Chophel and Kundun wont be the last Tibetans who got hurt.
Karmat: “It will prove dangerouse to our fragile democracy”
Tibetan Parliament-in-Exile’s Statement on 52nd Democracy Day!!
52 years of democracy yet still so fragile you said. Why is our democracy so fragile even after 52 years Karmat? Who is keeping us from having a vibrant democracy?
My dear habits and cultures die hard. Essentially Tibetan society never been democratic as you take it as guaranteed. We have been autocratic for centuries, then regionalism, terrorial clan, religious zealots for centuries and biggest of all province is Utsang which is dominated by sub ulterns. From where will strong democracy emerge. Look at current structure -religious and regional groups dictate CTA. Fro the past over fifty years, it was HHDL who single handedly handholding the CTA -don’t you know this?
The OWL
I am not saying its necessary be now, I mean its just put as plan, to do the protest in the right time, whenever the all participants are ready
yeah, mob gathering and attacking protester is a disgrace reality, and I think its a motivating thing to do protest.
why there mob gathering to attack the opponent of government??? if government are behind them, is this the government we supposed to trust in, and takeover Tibet issue???
why the HHDL himself can’t stop those mob?? or I doubt if he agree..its a dengerous game any way
as for the time, I think the time for Tibet issue is running out, and we shouldn’t delay too much, as its better to do in progress about the issue
I think is such protest happen, it will create headline in the news, and will gather attention to the tibetan issue, so its good
it might create some bad result of course, but I think the good result is much more than the bad
it will show the true face of TGIE, how they will respond, and how democracy does not exist..I even doubt as you suggest to wait the win of Rangzen in chithue, how there will be sure a fair election?? I think TGIE won’t allow rangzen to be there, and if there it will be very little, to show false sens of democracy, especially after Karma Choephel controversy with HHDL, which like make TGIE to be more oppressive, and won’t allow rangzen speaker’s parliament next time
KARMAT
“Either you don’t know or you are lying what Tibetans in side Tibet thinks.”
to accuse a person you don’t know of ignorance and going further of ‘lying’…reflects on your character & upbringing,
the only difference between your compatriots (Jay & Nathan) and yourself is you still carry a Tibetan name,although I see a George in the near future.
KarmaT,
If you are who I think you are. You look exactly the incarnation of bats, which we were taught in Lesson 3 of 4th Grade CST English language text book: The BATS.
When you see animal, you show your teeth and say, I am an animal like you. When you see an opportunity opening up with birds, you show your wings and say, I am a bird like you. Just plain hypocrite.
You are trying to say K.C’s ‘abuse of power and supposedly corruption cases’ is a crime. When Kim Jong Un Sangay and others in higher position near His Holiness the Dalai Lama are involved, it is a a buddha’s miracle !
Lobsang Kim Sangay says, his three core principle is self-reliant, unity and some other bs. He tells people to be self-reliant. But when it comes to him, he took money from some mysterious sources, to pay off mortgage on his duplex in Boston, bought cars for his resident wife, funded his daughter’s 529 tax sheltered college saving plan.
Self-reliant. My foot ! Compare to this guy and others running round higher beings, you still think, K.C. is the demon that you and your cohorts are trying to paint him to ?
You should understand that people like me have never openly supported K.C. But we support his right to speak his mind and discuss his vision for Tibet. He represents his constituency.
I really feel sorry for your narrow mindedness. I will keep you in my prayers for a gift of wisdom eye. But you can find it yourself faster , if you read some real good books on what democracy real means.
Diwali gifts for KarmaT and all the intolerant bunch:
Quotes About Freedom Of Speech
“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell
“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” ― George Washington
“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear.”
President Harry S. Truman in a Special Message to the Congress on the Internal Security of the United States, August 8, 1950]” ― Harry S. Truman
The most recent tamasha was on ngapo ..what happened? Now on KC…soon to be booted out of cholug too! Whatever the BS , kushola community should only be rep by kushola..be it their khenpo or their nyerpa la..100 times much better to protect their interest. These kangpaa nyitsuk by both lay & kushola should be stopped.
to the owls an the like. any discourse has to have some rudimentary playing field to fall back. when you talk about the ills of the this world of existence, the Buddhist views of suffering is the cardinal concept one has to accept. so if we are tying to talk and debate about democracy, especially the Tibetan form of democracy, if one cannot accept free speech, you don’t pass the basic acceptance of what democracy entails. if you can’t criticize leaders, including his holiness the dalai lama, you don’t pass. period, can’t have any discourse. go back, do you home work, an try again.
just think for a moment. is any leader, government or system that is not criticized and held accountable to the people, the land of the law, constitution etc. etc. etc.
the way Tibetan democracy is functioning right now is a shame. it is autocracy in guise of democracy. in Tibetan, it is noting wangtso, and not mangtso. period.
pempa tsering’s mea culpa, misleading the parliament by distorting his holiness the dalai lams’ supposedly inner-circle gibe at certain wellknown Tibetans has backfired when he was summoned and reprimanded by his holiness for churning the emotions of the gullible parliamentarians.
thanks for jamyang norbu’s scathing attack on such personalities, and the reactions to it through this and other blogs that the tide of jihad against those framed has subsided considerably. but the damage has been already done.
while pempa tsering is responsible for this despicable display of chamcha girism, the heaven will hold his holiness responsible for not guarding the human aspects of his holiness.
the Tibetan leadership, in particular the parliament, should not indulge in purging the best of the Tibetan intellectuals, and hide behind the cloak of his holiness.
if the current pathetic situation has lead the thinking younger majority of the Tibetan in and outside Tibet to loose their trust in the parliament, and it will not be long before the doubt the 400-year plus wisdom of the institution of his holiness the dalai lama.
as of now, one thing sure: the currently members of the Tibetan parliament will be booted out during the next elections. Take my word!
@ Daveno #163
You are right. SOMEONE paid off our glorious Sikyong’s mortgage of more than $210,000 just weeks before he was innaugurated. This still has not been explained at all! Who is this mysterious benefactor and what does the Sikyong owe in return?
All the Sikyong’s mortgage documents are available for everyone to see at http://www.scribd.com/doc/110372514/lobsangsangay-mortgages
This was reported thanks to Maura Moynihan at http://www.rangzen.net/2012/10/28/tibetans-in-exile-%E2%80%93-passports-or-rc%E2%80%99s-who-gets-what/
Democracy” has been the best designed tool to rule the commoner by those who accumulated wealth immorally by giving false yet somewhat believable hope. Thank The Lord ,the creator of democracy….such is the hope to give it a Devine status to worship”.TALL
Hi Lelkyi Tsho
You may have made a gaffe when you addressed me as we have no disagreement regarding what is the most fundamental, the most basic foundation of democracy. Obviously, like you said, it is free speech.
Freedom of speech, as you well know, was the most important credo conceived to bring about a more just society, a society of equals before the law, and that is why, by the wisdom and far sightedness of the Founding Fathers of America, realizing the primacy of free expression in a democratic society, rightly placed it as the 1st Amendment, “Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or the press.”
I was not sure if freedom of speech is included in the exile Charter, so I had a look-see at http://tibet.net/about-cta/legislature/about-us/the-charter-of-tibet/
And I learned that, no, freedom of speech is not explicitly stated, although it might be implicitly couched in words like, “equal rights”, “human rights”, “free democratic policy”. I haven’t read the Charter itself, so its very possible that freedom of speech is mentioned overtly.
If anyone is curious what Exile Charter considers as The Fundamental Principle is-it is this: “The future Tibetan Polity shall uphold the principle of non-violence and shall endeavor to be a ‘free Social welfare State’ with its politics guided by the ‘DHARMA’.”
That’s right, guided by Dharma. Guided by stone age social theories written by misogynistic monks exclusively to serve themselves, or, maybe, a doctrine that attempts to serve as a cultural foundation for political unity; or a nuanced interaction of the two? I don’t have time to critically analyse such questions right now.
Anyway, If Dharma is the main guiding force in Tibetan socio political endeavours, then what of other faiths? The Charter anticipates my concerns and in the next line states: “The Charter makes it clear that it does not promote any forms of state religion. All religious denominations are expressly assured equality before the law.”
Read it again, “The Charter makes it clear that it does not promote any forms of state religion.”
What honest Tibetan can seriously believe this falsehood? Even our own Parliament is adorned with Tibetan Buddhist iconography not to mention the over abundance of monk chitues.
Sometimes this is what the problem is with Charter/Constitution, the idea that it is more important to enshrine something than to practice it.
@ 162 TSERING TOPGYAL -why are you beating around the bush? Confess that you don’t really know what Tibetans in Tibet want at this juncture of Tibetan history? There are people who think the recent Self Emulation series asking for “Rangzen” is not at all true.
@ 163 DEVENO Don’t beat around the bush and come to the point on which this essay is based. I am practicing Tibetan democracy -just reading the ideals won’t help. If you are serious about Sangay’s case -that it is big deal in functioning of CTA and it is public matter-why don’t you just raise this question in the parliament? Just writing here and there -diverting discussion to non issues don’t deserve my attention.
I posted a comment on Tibet Sun in response to Nathan Gyatso’s article.
It is surprising that Tibet Sun has edited it beyond recognition.
Below is the original comment that I posted.
Please compare it to their version of my comment.
[It is very unfortunate that Nathan deliberately distorts and quotes Jamyang Norbu’s quotes out of context. And he also uses empty blanket statements without any substantiations.
There are so many distortions and empty blanket statements that it will be difficult to elaborate in a single write-up. I have selected a few as examples.
1. Distortion #1:
JNs original quote: [“Presumably in a bid to obtain public support of the Indians for his campaign, Speaker Penpa Tsering …….Hindustan Times…”
Nathan’s comment regarding JN’s quote:
“What makes me feel that this is ridiculous, is that: do Indians normally vote for the speaker of the Tibetan Parliament-in-exile?”
I think JN did not mean election campaign for the seat of speaker of Exile Tibetan Parliament. The correct interpretation of “campaign” in this context is “the campaign to malign Karma Choephel and Rangzen advocates”. As such the question of Indians voting for the post of speaker of Exile Tibetan Parliament does not arise.
2. Distortion # 2:
Comment by an Indian blogger: ”Well done Tibetan politicians in exile…continue mixing your politics with ancient religion….” )
Nathan’s quote regarding the above comment: “Such a comment can be seen ….throughout the world! And sometimes ………… people regard them as trash.”
A comment may be viewed as a trash or a treasure depending on where you stand. A trash for some may be priceless jewel for others. And in our case, what India and Indians have to say is highly important, and especially so if the comment is a constructive one as above.
Anti-Tibetan Chinese will want to trash constructive (for Tibet’s cause) comments by Indians. It is simply not in their (Chinese’s) interest to hold such comments in high esteem. Beware of what you say Nathan, for it may reveal your true identity.
3. Distortion # 3:
Nathan’s comment regarding Jamyang Norbu’s comment comparing KC’s interrogation with Cultural Revolution style “struggle”:
Nathan, there is something called a metaphor. You don’t have to have lived through a Cultural Revolution to use Cultural Revolution as metaphor.
People use Auschwitz as metaphor all the time. Are you implying that you have to have lived through Auschwitz for you to be eligible to use it as a metaphor in your writings?
I too think that what the Parliament in Exile did to KC was nothing less than a Cultural Revolution style “struggle”.
4. Empty blanket statement:
Nathan’s comment: “Ironically, being unable to see the ulterior motives hidden behind the cloud, some have even heedlessly become steadfast followers of JN Consequently, they have attempted to dismantle the delicate mechanism of the government and the sole house in Exile,”
a. Nathan, can you elaborate on the “ulterior motives hidden behind the cloud”. What ulterior motives are you talking about?
b. Nathan, can you clarify who the “they” are when you say – “they have attempted to dismantle”?
And yes, please provide data/information source that your allegations are based on.
It is an insult to His Holiness and to all Tibetans for you and your kind to think of yourselves as “guardian” of His Holiness’ wellbeing, especially His Thuk-Sem (sentiment/heart) and his longevity.
You are insinuating that He is so fragile mentally and physically that it takes the likes of you to stand guard for Him.
Every time someone just budges an R of the Rangzen word, you guys scream “it will hurt His sentiment”. It is almost like China accusing every nation of hurting China’s sentiment every time the T of Tibet is mentioned.
Are you sure you are not a Chinese disguised as a Tibetan?
Thoepagha at #6 mentions about Chinese practice of using a anglicized first name.
Looking by your first name, may be you are a Chinese, “Nathan”.
And you love using Chinese proverbs. Go back to your “motherland” and do not meddle into the affairs of our Fatherland.]
If Tibetan were guided by the principle of Buddhism, even in the political realm, this is all for better and should be noted down on all documents and be PROUD of it.
Just recite the national anthem of the country that you reside in or just listen again to the leader that you FOLLOW on how they end their speech, be it GOD or Jana gana mana…its right there in front of you.
Sometimes it is best not to dignify certain blogs and some pop up ‘writer’ with a reply. For me The Sun blog is one.
The guy who run the blog Lobsang Wangyal, like the DEVANO with O not the zero is just Sikyong’s point man or you can say hit man. Sooner people realize the identity and mission of these individual, it will make anyone to take them seriously.
Their mission, I noticed is to play diversional tactics, when public anger is turning to close to their paid master. Just watch this DAVEN -O with O not one with zero.
His mission is to change the topics when people started circling his grand master the glorious,heaven-mandated, ma-dek-tulku Sikyong Lobsang Sangay.
Latest I hear is that now he has almost finished offering Ten-shuk for all the heads of religious sects. His man friday, the religious Kalon is asking selective group to compose a Tenshug prayer for Sikyong! OMG where does this ends!
Oh Yeah, I forgot. Let us not criticize our glorious Sikyong, lest he says he too intends not to live beyond…or that he will quit after his first million $ !
Tibet Sun has also changed my comment. I am posting the following comment on their site:
Since you have taken the liberty to edit my comment against all norms of honest reporting, I would like to make it very clear that I don’t worry about Tibet Sun. I don’t care whether your website is successful or crashes. It is up to you to decide whether you want to be seen as a fair and non-judgemental or a biased source of information with hidden political agenda. As for me personally, I am never visiting your website again. And just in case you decided not to post this comment, I want you to know that I am posting it here (Jamyang la’s blog.
Who is offering tenshuk to kalon lobsang sangey to make him another kushola again building up a big mangod for us to worship and never question. If lobsang sangey is man of honor and educated he would say no to this clear violation of Tibetan Constitution promise of not mixing religion and politics.
@153 – KARMAT
Call me anything –‘ kushola rightist fanatic; ‘North Korea things’ & other stuff – but don’t call me ‘chameleon’.
Chameleon…
# 170 KARMAT
yawn
I believe that still the circles, or wheels, goes on, and same problems goes again and again..Buddhism still misused, and mixed with Politics..I believe that Buddhism have nothing to do with MWA, just the HHDL claim to be based on Buddhism, in order to shut the mouth of critics..actually its a dengarous misused of religion, Buddhism never tell you to accept whatever injustice, and try to satisfy your enemy, that create suffering for you
if we look at history, Buddha himself has resist the injustice conducted by Hindu brahmin aginst the low caste people..so its not true that Buddhism in some way are responsible for our suffering, or lack of freedom, even in exile
therefore, HHDL must stop using religion to promote his policy.
I think its a long way to create true freedom, because the one who hold it won’t easlly agree to lost it
I find really good and sad article from indian author shows the reality of Tibetan divid, without being biased because he is not Tibetan
http://tibetanyouthcongress.org/tyc-archives/views/2013/02/06/how-tibetans-are-losing-their-focus-and-unity/
the most important quotes from article:
“one wonders why a community and its leaders, whose Supreme leader has the wisdom of giving up all his political powers to his people, cannot create autonomous space for its own members to take up and deliberate the Tibetan cause from different angles and perspectives?”
“This section’s main argument is that the concept of genuine autonomy came from the Dalai Lama when he held the position of the supreme political leader of the nation, and is, hence, unchallengeable.”
“In a traditional society where Dalai Lama is revered by people like a living God, there are very few enlightened individuals who would open mouth at the risk of being socially castigated. ”
“Use of pseudonyms like ‘Sutse’ or ‘ThinkOver’ clearly reflects the fear of being branded as anti-Dalai Lama that grips the community today as it stands divided on this sensitive issue.”
“It is significant that there has never been any public expression of support for autonomy from inside occupied Tibet all these years. In all reports of anti-China demonstrations from inside Tibet reaching the free world during past over 50 years, the only two expressions used by the Tibetans to express their collective national aspirations were Rangzen (independence) or Rangwang (freedom). For ordinary Tibetan, living under occupation, both words have been always synonyms of the same sentiment — getting rid of the Chinese rule.”
“reflects itself through the fact that in past over ten years, since TGIE abandoned Rangzen for autonomy, not a single slogan has been coined by the Tibetan demonstrators that calls for autonomy for Tibet from China.”
“old traditional slogans like “Dusht Cheenio! Tibbat Chhoro!” (Cruel Chinese! Quit Tibet!) or “Hamein Kya Chahiye? Azaadi!” (What do we need? Freedom!) still rent the air across India. There is not a single slogan demanding autonomy.”
“While the Dalai Lama has been advocating democracy and freedom of expression among the exile community, there have been instances indicating that a substantial section among the influential and vocal members of the ruling elite among the refugee community has not been able to keep pace with their supreme leader in practicing democracy within the community. The eagerness to adopt democratic practices in the intra-community political dialogue, especially on Rangzen-vs-Autonomy debate is badly missing”
“a US Congressman, publicly accusing some highest ranking elected leaders of the CTA of stifling the voice of pro-Rangzen Tibetan individuals.”
“An uncomfortable China with an unsettled Tibetan issue is more comfortable for these Asian neighbours of Tibet because they can hope for a favourable day in future when Tibet’s luck smiles like that of over a dozen occupied members of the erstwhile USSR. Unfortunately, the Tibetan Diaspora and the Tibet support movement have utterly failed in cashing in this sentiment among the South Asian countries.”
“Now with a divided house over the issue of autonomy-vs-Rangzen the Tibetan community’s focus appears blurred and confused. ONE WONDERS, WHY a community and its leaders, whose supreme leader has the WISDOM of giving up all his political powers to his people, CANNOT create autonomous space for its own members to take up and deliberate the Tibetan cause from DIFFEENT angles and perspectives!!!!????.”
I said because its NOT WISDOM NOR ITS GIVE HIS POLITICAL POWER TO ITS PEOPLE
LHASANG Being veteran in exile politics you failed to understand the exile politics. I reaaly wonder how confused you are by believing sch an essay which is mere journalistic piece than researched article. First thing first: the article do not have full overview and at best represents his own perspective. It is not true that exile is a confused society. It may be socio-economically but not politically. Majority of the populace still behind MWA and goes on forward.
Secondly, it is not at all true that we never did and will do -isolate Tibetans inside Tibet or not consult them. HHDL & CTA has full understsnding of what is being happening in Tibet. It consults whenever it needs to. In the past it took part in major referendum process. It continues to receive communications from Tibet.
Thirdly, it assumes that exile polity is incapable of accommodating diverse political opinions. This is not true! Rangzen as our ultimate aspiration is not questioned by anybody including HHDL. MWA is rational and pragmatic political decision based on our concurrent circumstances and political history. So don’t become so gullible!
LHASANG -after all where is complication as far as Tibetan political issues are concern to seek multiple perspectives. We have little choices. We can’t effort to repeat neighboring countries making mistakes as India did vis a vis J&K and Shri Lanka. No Rangzen will be Rangzen without GOI’s support. We don’t want the two Asian giants blood shedding Tibetans or themselves for Tibet (which India won’t do it).
Where is need to call Chameleon, the Chameleons.
Where is need to call Chameleon, the red banded Chameleon. After all Chameleon is a Chameleon.
#183
KARMAT
When you say that majority of the Tibetans are behind MWA I am presuming you meant the Tibetan population outside Tibet. Even so the referendum was a sham and you know it. Those in power were not objective like real leaders should. InsteAD they abused their power by using their favorable position to wrangle support for MWA and did not give the same platform to the other side to express their point of view. I heard that officials and representatives from CTA went around to Tibetan settlements and institutions to convince people to support MWA while denouncing Rangzen as futile exercise. After all that can you even say the word referendum with a straight face?
##187
You might need to look up the definition of chameleon.
Metaphorically it will apply to he who supports Rangzen when powerful people supported it and changes his color immediately when those powerful people change their minds.
@174 Gedun Choephel
Thank you for the info on Tibet Sun. So that is what it is. A mouth-piece for Middle Way policy. That explains everything.
TCL
To Tibet Sun
You said length was the issue becasue it was not within 1000 words. But when I broke up the comment into several short parts to keep it within 1000 words and re-posted it, you did not display them. I have now waited for more than 24 hours to see the comments. I guess this means you are not going to display them. So, length is not the issue. It is the content that you are worried about.
You edited my comment beyond recognition because it refuted Nathan Gyatso’s article point by point and you simply could not allow your readers to see it because it revealed the bogus writer that Nathan is, and by extention- the lowly level of your journalism.
I posted the full text of my comment on Shadow Tibet. Below is what Gedun Gyatso had to say about your blog.
“The guy who run the blog Lobsang Wangyal, like the DEVANO with O not the zero is just Sikyong’s point man or you can say hit man. Sooner people realize the identity and mission of these individual, it will make anyone to take them seriously.
Their mission, I noticed is to play diversional tactics, when public anger is turning to close to their paid master.”
You just lost a regular visitor to your blog.
And I will post this comment on Shadow Tibet.
I am a growing student in both mental and physical state yet I have learned from my teachers what is rightful thoughts about my nation in dying breathe and to have an educated personality as you in our society is a candle in the darkness but I surprise not your wisdom and broken disintegrating language power of your as you forgot that nobody in Tibetan society believes in your money making articles at this education level increasing period of our history. You are more like Chinese boxing glove than our finger for freedom fighting punch.May in future you will utilize your language skill in poems for kindergarten and junior kids telling about unreasonable topic like Snow mountain and so on…
If you really want to live in a democracy then know that in democracy majority rules both in election and decision making and better follow the path of majority then trying to push your private ingredient in our meaningful struggle. Action speaks louder.I came to know you not because you have lead peace march,campaign, debate, hunger-strike or serve in CTA but due to your critics without voice of action.
To Shadow Tibet,
Please excuse me for posting comments that were meant to be posted on Tibet Sun in response to Nathan Gyatso’s article.
Tibet Sun edited by comment into a mild, toothless, ambiguis form.
But I had to get the correct version of my comment out without censorship.
I will not repeat ths again.
Sorry have taken up valuable space.
TCL
KARMAT
Read # 175 -again
Because YOU are the true chameleon -‘Karma chameleon’ and having the last laugh on this blog with some tubelights around. and so continue & enjoy your gol maaal
191 Lobsang Dawa
You are not a kid growing up. You are frustrated middle aged person who cannot win debates due to lack of resources and language skill. No youth of today is gonna write in that way unless he or she lives alone in a cave.
@193 TSUNDDRU That’s it! You want to finish the conversation at this level and at this point! It speaks clearly about your much known pseudo attitude and corresponding depths!
@187 SAD EYES -Let’s conduct another at this point, it will score much higher with “intellectual” people like you around. Look at the TYC!
Democracy is not just the right to vote but expressing free opinions on affairs of the government.
Before 1959 the affairs of the government are the prerogatives of Desi Goleb but now since democratization in exile every one has the right to express their voice.
Its sad to see so many people today feel that they are better off without Dalai Lama’s involvement. Let me tell you straight it is a delusion, at least for now while Tibet as a nation and society holds by a thread. I am a big fan of Mr. Jamyang Norbu with lots of reasons at the same time I am very critical of him with same amount of reasons. Bhutan is a sovereign nation how can somebody compare Bhutan with Tibet. Very existence of Tibet or Tibetans that is distinguishable from rest of the world could vanish in no time if we as a Tibetan do not act with lots of caution and realization of our unique situation.
If anybody thinks we Tibetans could have been a much better society than what we are right now without Dalai Lama’s leadership in the last 60 years, we ought to be kidding ourselves. Being critical is not the problem but being disrespectful and insulting is the problem. There is a difference being wrong and being bad. Zamdong Rinpoche and Penpa Tsering lak could have been wrong but they are not bad people. They have good intention to help our society just like you guys do.
No organization, no party, no person has ability to unite Tibet as Dalai Lama does for whatever reason. Once Dalai Lama is gone, division among ourselves will destroy us. Its unfortunate but it could be very real.
Everybody or every organization such as TNC Should be focusing on their agenda and objective without belittling our Tibetan government. If you get support from the population, belittling is not required.
Precise and profound -compelling point to be agreed! Need to understand the roles that each one of us ought to play and volunteered to play!
@ #197
What is the worth of unity if the nation of Tibet is no more?
Hitler united his followers quite effectively. But for what purpose?
If Tibetan leaders want to be Chinese nationals unity among Tibetans is irrelevant.
Tibet is a nation not a dharma charity that you can dispense off to impress dharma followers. There was Tibet long before there was Buddhism.
KarmaT
you are clearly a blind faith supporter of HHDL and CTA..even in fact, the best leaders in the world, have some flaws or mistakes, no one in the world havn’t had any mistake, thats the reason in the democratic country, there is opposition parties criticize the ruling, so your claim that HHDL is best of the best is unlogicly
in fact, HHDL with CTA is not even an expert, if they so good, why Tibet for 60 years so miserble!!!??
watch this video, explain how HHDL so expert, by moving against the historic Tibet movement that bring Tibet issue to headline!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VnDzyA6j2I
the serious failed leadership are the biggest obstacles Tibet face today
To Sad Eeys
its not Dharma problem, its the misused Dharma by some failed leaders, to oppress there opponent
even Lord Buddha himself has accept criticism and encourage his followers to express his teaching by themselves
but question, why HHDL seems doesn’t like this idea??!!!
Under the present circumstances we are in, UNITY is the KEY.
@lhasang, What have you been doing for the last 60 years knowing your leadership is moving in the wrong direction ?
When we address our final judgement of ”
failure or success”, there are many reasons, factors contributing to this judgement. What are those factual reasons or factors that you have considered in arriving at your conclusion.what would you suggest going forward to avoid such failure you say.
How do you know Dharma has been misused and by whom?
When did HHDL said he does not welcome questions from Tibetan during his political leadership?
Have you ever considered putting yourself in HHDL shoes from the time he took on political leadership.
We have rights to question when we are not sure or confused but to throw out a judgement in the state of confusion is pretty stupid.
Mr Jamyang Norbu La:
The title of the article, “THE SAD PAINFUL JOKE OF TIBETAN DEMOCRACY”. Who are you blaming this fiasco for? All the people in the CTA are democratically elected officials and I believe they are doing their best to fulfill the interest of Tibetan people. I strongly recommend you to run for office next time. Anybody can seat behind and complain and moan but what is the point.
Whether you like it not, whether it is bad or good, Dalai Lama almost runs in Tibetans blood. China have done everything in their power in the last 60 year to take Dalai Lama out of Tibetan people live and they gravely failed. I personally do not believe Dalai Lama is a flawless or possess some kind of divine power but I definitely believe he is a extraordinary individual. Given the circumstances, we Tibetans could not have asked better leader.
We Tibetans have a unique culture that is engulfed by Buddhist teachings. Just like any other cultural system in this world, there are flaws in our culture. This does not mean we should abandon our culture all together. Every government, every people, every culture is not same for different reasons. It is counter productive to criticize by focusing on flaws of our government and officials under the current Tibetan situation. Rather you could write articles about Chinese policies that directly or indirectly affect live of Tibetan people negatively. Can I see that on your blog?
@202
I recommend reading Jamyang La’s book Shadow Tibet. A collection of Jamyang la’s articles dating back to 80s. A link to purchase this book can be found on the top of this page.
It is not counterproductive to criticize where criticism is due. It is the essence of democracy to accomodate different opinions. I am pretty sure you don’t think we are all humans, not robots.
correction … last sentence in 203:
I am pretty sure you don’t think we are all robots.
@202
Unlike other nations, we are in a very different situation. Our very existence is holding by a thread. At this time what we need is reinforce the thread not weaken it. People forget we are in a different situation.
Having said that, I am not against criticism based on facts. CTA’s decision to challenge people face to face who accuse Dalai Lama is also part of a criticism from other-side that you guys are up against.
Yes, opinions are welcome in democracy but majority rules. So overwhelming majority of Tibetan population supports Middle Way Approach. Mr. Jamyang Norbu’s criticism of our democracy is not supported by facts in hand.
@ 205 Please don’t say overwhelming majority supports MWA. We never had a fair and unbiased referendum in the first place. More importantly, it is crystal clear the majority of Tibetans in Tibet want their occupied country back and are not sarficing their precious lives for MWA.
HHDL has lost considerable respect vis-a-vis politically by giving up on Rangzen. Although, still our cherished leader, Tibetans can hold their own as we have even before the advent of the DL institution. Tibetans are intelligent, hardworking and competent people that can manage and sustain our own civilization.
While we uphold HHDL, we are not who we are because of one individual, but rather we are a people that has evolved and shaped by our own culture. While TGIE has done a good job at sustaining our culture and traditions in exile, it has failed in getting any mileage towards it’s single most important goal; Rangzen.
WHITEISCOLOUR
where is the EVIDENCE that the majority of tibetans support middle way?!!
No single slogan from tibetans in Tibet shout middle way!!!!
all shout freedom and independence
CTA and HHDL try to create an impression claim that majority want, but its not, nor they do have any evidence
its clear how HHDL and CTA are running against the majority of tibetans, when they support notorious olympic games in China
all Tibetans are risking there life to make there voices heard in 2008, while HHDL, resting in his home in Dharamsala, shows his opposition to the Tibetan protester, and support olimpic game!!!!
This is how the CTA represent Tibetan people
Lhasang
How many MPs do we have in CTA? How many of them support Independent Tibet? Do we need more evidence?
The slogans are some what out dated. Our positions have changed but not the slogans.
In regards to your Olympic comments, I don’t even know where to begin. First of all, Dalai Lama’s support had no effect on Olympic taken place in Beijing. Aren’t we trying to win support from Chinese population? It would have been politically incorrect if Dalai Lama stood against Beijing Olympic. As a leader, as a politician you have to look beyond what you see in-front of you.
Would Gandhi have listened if idiot’s tell him his Satagraha would hurt the feelings of those who have invaded his country?
This is the worse kind of logic, to ask the victims to be careful not to hurt the oppressors!!! Maybe the political prisoners shouldn’t cry so loudly or pass out when they electrocute you in your vagina with ekectric cattle prods. It might hurt the sentiments of thd chinese people. If we are so worried about hurting the feelings of the Chinese People, then His holiness should stop asking anything and publicly take tge citizenship of China. Close down Cta and go back and live under the Chinese. All those who support middleway should go back and make the Chinese happy. You cannot decide the fate of those in Tibet if you are sitting comfortably in a free country. That is called hypocrisy.
Hi Whiteiscolor,
I do believe the Dalai Lama is a man of principle when it comes to the MW, in that, he thinks the MWP is the only viable option, therefore I agree with you, the Dalai Lama did the right thing given what he stands for-peaceful coexistence with China under Chinese Law.
You said, “Dalai Lama’s support had no effect on Olympic taken place in Beijing.” Utilizing the same rationale, would you also agree, Dalai Lama’s support for MW has no effect on policies taking place in Beijing?
You also demanded Jamyang Norbu to show proof of his criticism “based on facts.” Jamyang Norbu has introduced facts, along with naming names, and so has TPR along with other progressive thinking Tibetans like Tenpa Gashi and Choenyi Woser.. or, could it be that you and me have different interpretation of what the world “fact” mean… Ok so you don’t consider what JN wrote as factual, I am curious what you would consider as criterion for the word, “fact”?
Tell me, do you think the resolution below, “the gravest concern for all Tibetans!!”is “based on facts”?
“This was a matter of grave concern for all the Tibetans inside and outside Tibet. That’s why the Parliament made this resolution motion. Thirty members took part in this deliberation. Each and every one expressed their faith in His Holiness, and resolved to request His Holiness to commit himself to live up to the age of 113 and beyond. That was the first point of the resolution,” the Speaker said.
If MW policy is what majority exile demand, to ingratiate China and the Chinese people, then how wise were some in the CTA leadership via Tibet support groups, whos testimony lead to the Spanish criminal court orders, the arrest warrants against Chinese leaders Hu Jintao, Jiang Zemin, Li Peng?
I think this is a great victory for the exile government and Tibetan people, I applaud them, and you know, this action redeems Karma Chophel and his honest opinion of what is truly in the heart of hearts.
thanks for sharing your viewpoint and it’s always a good thing to have a Tibetan who really do care about Tibet .
in the past has resulted in a number of mob attacks and public humiliation of establishment critics. Even the murder of one.——due to the lack of knowledge,i haven’t heard about it so can you tell me more about this ? if it’s true it will be shame for our history of Tibet .
The case for Rangzen does not require Dalai Lama’s or for that matter any lama’s or god’s divine sanction. Although Dalai Lamas have become the most universally revered figure for the Tibetans over the last 4 centuries,the nation of Tibet has been in existence much much longer than the Dalai Lamas.
It can perhaps be argued that because most of the Tibetans forgot that they are part of a great nation called Tibet, we lost our country to China.
The culture of slowly erasing the memory of Independent Tibet by marginalizing the subject has always been present in our society. And its most loudest advocates are those who aspire to more grandois and fantastic objectives like Nirvana, Universal Peace and limitless compassion etc. etc. rather than real-world objectives like Political Independence of a nation.
I think it is Mao who famously said : ” Masses are like blackboard and one can write whatever one wants on it.”
But these days, people write not on blackboard, but on WHITE (ISCOLOR) chalk board and people write with dry erase markers. Hence we have a brain dead WHITEISCOLOR (BOARD). I welcome you. You look like an incarnation of DAVENO. I only wish I have more time to debate people like you.
Question:
1. What is holding Middle way proponent starting from Sikyong from going back to ‘great motherland’ ? Chinese Embassy in New Delhi will arrange your travel.
2. Why can’t the Middle way proponents tell of people Driru and other regions not to protest China but to ‘proudly hoist’ Chinese flag ? What is stopping them from making the appeal or giving orders? They know what people in Tibet wants and stands for that is why they dare not.
3. Many on the blog say that MW policy is majority decision. Forget about the public or so-called fake referendum. Just take a secret ballot vote on choice between MW or Rangzen in the very Tibetan parliament among the members who just recently spoke so overwhelmingly against K.C. If they vote for MW, we the opponent of MW merchants will give up the counter-arguement for once and all.
They will never dare to accept this challenge for the simple reason that MW proponent know that they will get a shock of their life, if parliament members are given right to a secret ballot, without emotional blackmail, with an independent observers.
WHITEISCOLOR chalk board is a very naive and confused.I don’t blame you for that. That is the whole intention of Dharamsala, to keep our people wrap up in this psychosis of ” kadring Samshek” as some one aptly describe long back.
In my twenty years of observation, I have seen that people like Lodi Gyari, Samdhong Lama, now the morally bankrupt Sikyong abused the power or consolidated power for their personal gain and egos, by accusing the common sense opposition voices by using the arguments of “sanctity of Tibetan cause, Holiness of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and unity of Tibetan people.” It is just plain BS.
A foreign leader who will remain nameless at this point once advised a gathering of Tibetan leaders thus:
” Tibetans are sailing in a boat trying to reach the shore. The boat has a hole or several holes. If some one says the holes need fixing, don’t blame the guy for causing chaos and mayhem. Boat with a hole will never reach its intended destination until the holes are fixed. ”
My appeal to MW proponent is that please take the pleasure ride back into the lap of ” great motherland “. It will decide two things for the world;
1. It will show how many faithful, loyal followers will follow the trail ?
2. It is also show how the Tibetan people inside Tibet will welcome MW proponents ?
To me, it is not JN and TYC who is causing division in our community and cause. It is people like Samdhong Lama and Lobsang Kim Sangay.
THE OWL
do you think really the CTA or HHDL have any relation in the historic call to arrest Hu jintao and Jiang zemin!!!???
in fact, the CTA never comment or mention any thing, including the Dalai Lama, which raises doubts, that either CTA, sikyong, HHDL..either don’t care or don’t want!!!!
because the Spanish Court ruling, have stated the crimes committed against a “country”, which support the notion that Tibet is independence country, and therefore, support Rangzen!!!!
so, don’t be surprise if HHDL come suddenly and stated that Tibetans doesn’t want Hu or Jiang or other cromminals Chinese to put in trials!!!! either said it will hurt the feeling of Chinese, or it will raise the doubt that Tibetan don’t want Autonomy, but Independence!!! and make again a ridicule blame to Rangzen supporter..
I forget to mention, the ruling court come as a result of two hardworking Non-Governmental independent Tibetan organization in Spain..which have no relation to CTA
Lhasang, there is a relation between CTA and 2 Tibetan Support groups, because, the principle gentleman filing a lawsuit against the 5 or 7 Chinese leaders accusing them of Genocide is Kusho Thubten Wangchen, the founder of Tibet House in Barcelona, a resident of Spain, and I think, a former Chitue….further, a Geluk monk from Namgyal Monastery.(personal monastery of Kundun) On Kushola’s biosite, the first Link is Dalai Lama, 2nd Link Central Tibetan Administration…
http://www.tpprc.org/component/content/article/1-tpprc-news/203-thupten-wangchen.html
The OWL
Ok, being former Chithue, doesn’t mean its a CTA job
Yeah, Thubten Wangchen has done a very hardworking job, but its personaly, CTA have no relation
http://www.tibetanreview.net/news.php?cat=2&&id=12912
this quote from article above:
“The exile Tibetan administration at Dharamsala, India, which is not known to have played any role in initiating the suits or contributing to the proceedings thus far, has so far not reacted to the developments.”
how the biggest body represent the exile Tibetan movement have not even respond to such historical first foregin call to challenge the most Chinese responsible for the suffering of Tibetans??!!!
Soo Weird, guess never happened in the world, especialy for refugees Movement!!!!
@Gedun Choephel La
In Buddhist philosophy, White is considered one of the primary colors if you know any thing about it. I welcome you any time to have a productive debate that concerns our political and social issues. Counter productive debate, personal attack, unprofessional behaviors are waste of your time and my time. Just insert Rangzen instead Middle Way in your sentence and ask same question to yourself. It seems everybody is wrong except yourself, Dalai Lama is wrong, Zamdhong Lama is wrong, Lobsang Sangye is wrong, future prime minister will be wrong too. If you are so convinced that majority of Tibetan people support Rangzen, then you should run for election with your political agenda. People will vote for you if they truly support Rangzen. Voting is anonymous as you would like.
I personally do not have problem with Rangzen or Middle Way if it is a option or possible, i would choose Rangzen and any Tibetan people would. Rangzen is not a option and it is a next to impossible. May be you guys are talking about what Tibetan people want and we are talking about what is achievable for Tibetan people. Any wise person would not wait for odd. Tibetan population in Tibet is at least 1/4 ratio against Chinese and this will get worse faster then it has been. We are not like Indians who survived 200 years under British rule. Forget about Rangzen; in another 50 or 100 years, you will have hard time to distinguished who is Tibetan and who is Chinese in Tibet if we do not act with urgency. Analogically explaining; when someone is in fire burning, you try to pull the person from the fire to save his life even it means leaving behind some of his limbs. It would be unwise to say we are not pulling this person out of the fire unless whole body comes with him. By doing so the person could die.
Unity is the power, unity is the weapon. I am sure we won’t have any disagreement on this. If you think there are other people who can unite Tibetan people better than Dalai Lama, you are just unreal.
If people try to make more holes in the boat instead of fixing the holes that is already existed than boat will never reach its intended destination for sure.
Did we have any self immolators in Tibet that shouted somebody else name instead of Dalai Lama? I don’t know where your doubt is coming from.
Wise man a.k.a White is primary color Rinpoche of Buddhist Canon:
Prostrations.
Now let me refute learned one’s arguments;
You wrote : ” Unity is the power, unity is the weapon. I am sure we won’t have any disagreement on this.”
People unite for a common cause. MW proponents version of unity is join us with unquestionable loyalty. Our cause is to be ” citizen of PRC, the future economic giant and global power ” Latest argument. Any one questioning the wisdom of the cause is “traitors, non-believers, may be Dhogyal followers etc.”
Rangzen followers will unite for the sacred cause of Tibetan nation. His Holiness the Dalai Lama represents Tibetan nation and our identity, will not do anything to undermine His prestige and status, which we believe some followers around Him are doing more harm than Rangzen followers, which we can’t stand. His Holiness belongs as much to us as to MW proponents. ( Yeah, you can come up any argument you want.We respect His Holiness the Dalai Lama for what He represent.)
We will unite to raise the Tibetan national flag but will never come to take the train ride to join PRC. Never in this life.
You Wrote:
“If you are so convinced that majority of Tibetan people support Rangzen, then you should run for election with your political agenda. People will vote for you if they truly support Rangzen. Voting is anonymous as you would like.”
I have an answer for this argument. But I can’t give it here. This forum is one of the favorite place for both people for and against Tibetan cause to observe Tibetan debate. Some of our reply will serve others( China) more than one can justify one’s point. This is where I don’t want to play into.
But I know that this is MW proponents’ favorite argument against mainly JN and some others. It is here that they seems to relish some brownie points.
Let me tell you what I think is the origin of this argument is. It all started when His Holiness the Dalai Lama in a meeting/talk with overseas Chinese in Australia. His Holiness the Dalai Lama said something along the line with His now famous full-throated chuckle.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama speaks at different forum. Although He was speaking to the oversea Chinese, His audience was different. It is leaders in China. But our wise-men saw a wisdom. Then it started tickling down in sarcastic remarks of Khewang Samdhong Rinpoche. ( Although Whiteiscolors spelling is closer to conveying a different meaning for Samdhong Rinpoche, if you change M for B)
Secret ballot, I agree is the magic of democracy to vote with your clear mind. Election campaigning of the sort is different. It will be a dream come true for ” thought police” in Dharamsala. It will be a ” Let the thousand flowers bloom ” campaign for ‘ thought police in Dharamsala .
Their whole business runs on making people toe the line. Democracy, in real sense of word is still far, far away from us.
You wrote:
” In Buddhist philosophy, White is considered one of the primary colors IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT” (emphasis mine)
You seem highly learned. Hence, I confer to you the title of Whiteiscolor Rinpoche.
But I will tell you this that buddhist canon I read also say, Charcoal black is a color, which even if you try to wash its blackness with the waters of sacred Ganges and wipe it with sacred Khata, won’t make it white.
It is what people like you and other intolerant bunch are. Like the charcoal , I know I will never be able to make you and others like KarmaT are some others to understand that the true meaning of freedom is right to express one’s thoughts and opinion without fear.
I can still refute rest of your arguments. But it will just bore others. Hence, I will stop writing. It is all yours. I won’t be write for sometime.
Gedun choephel
Saying is easy but acting is not. Let me ask you two simple questions? How are you going to get Rangzen? What sort of plans you have? In your next comment, can you please explain your A,B,C plan to achieve Rangzen? Otherwise all the claims you made are empty.
You said, “you and others like KarmaT are some others to understand that the true meaning of freedom is right to express one’s thoughts and opinion without fear”. By law you could be charged making false stories, making irresponsible accusations, or insulting somebody. Media companies are sued for publishing false stories.
You seem to blame everything for others. Do you ever point fingers to yourself? Look at your comments. You know nothing about me and you already started ridiculing me, labeling me and so on. Looks like you are ready to blame or attack anybody who disagree with you. Than you talk about freedom of expression. I am not sure where you stand.
Honorable Jamyang NOrbu la
When is the second piece of the essay to expose the mini culture revolution of big mcleodganj chamchas coming?
WHITEISCOLOUR
we do respect Dalai Lama as a head of Religion, and represent idinitity, but politics is another topics, and I still think its very wrong for Dalai Lama to interfer in Politics
even though if Dalai Lama want to be part of Tibetan Politics, he have rights to do it, but not force others his views, like the Sad situation now
every one is strongly pressured to believe in MWA, even though Tibetans for there love for Dalai Lama has start to beleieve it for 20 years, and its already much morethan FAILED policy, so many start fed up with this, but the problem HHDL still want to force it. Thats the reason the Tibetan democracy is a big JOKE.
its true HHDL is the best one to unite Tibet currently, but don’t forget in the history, there is a lots of leader unite there people for bad, like Hitler do in Germany..so not every unity is necessary gone give good result
the important question, why the Dalai lama do like the Qween of britain being just symbol of country and unity without interefer in politics?????
Lhasang
There are Tibetans like you who believe that Dalai Lama has personal interest in politics and power and bring his name right next to Hitler. Just unbelieveable. This is what China does.
Believing in Rangzen and disagreeing with Dalai Lama is your democratic right. Karma Choephel has every right to express support for Rangzen and oppose Middle Way with all logical reasons he might have but he did more than that. He brought Dalai Lama to back up his view by saying deep down Dalai Lama believes in Rangzen. This is what China saying. The problem with you guys is floating around untrue stories in the society. Middle Way was not imposed by Dalai Lama it was proposed. After rounds of discussion among leaders of Tibetan people from around the world, it was passed by overwhelming majority as our way to go forward.
Make this one straight, Tibetan people want Dalai Lama to lead them Not Dalai Lama want to lead Tibetan people. Untimately ONLY Tibetan people make decision for their future nobody else.
Jamyang Norbu and you comparing ourselve with Bhutan and England is a true joke. We literally have nothing to call our own. We live in as refugees. Our government even do not have legal authority to issue a birth certificate. Despite of all this, Dalai Lama has build robust society that we all enjoy today as Tibetan and you and I are here to talk about future of Tibet. If anybody thinks someboy else might have done better job as our leader is just ignorant. Why China constantly say Dalai Lama is the problem? China does not even recognize Tibetan people have problems.
Whiteiscolor:
” The problem with you guys is floating around untrue stories in the society.
Middle Way was not imposed by Dalai Lama it was proposed. ”
R E A L L Y ? You seriously think ( It is you guys aka Rangzen supporters) who are FLOATING untrue stories in the society. And you are holder of the true knowledge !
You are stretching Samdhong Rinpoche’s yarn far too long.
Be careful not to spin the yarn, too much so as to get oneself entrapped unto to it.
You can play back any number of tapes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama on MW policy and you will count your rosary as much as you want against all the person noun of I and my.
The more you write, the more you are like lovable Pinocchio. The more you spin, longer your nose grows.
The problem with Tibetan society is that Tibetans will never appreciate the sacrifice of ordinary Tibetans. How many Tibetans have given their life for Tibet since 1950 Chinese invasion.
Tens of thousand have given their life yet we never remember or acknowledge them. Nation will never be great if citizen forget or pretend to not to know of their sacrifices.
Everything boils down to what people of Tibet really want, it could be right, it could be wrong, it could be unscientific, it could be old thoughts or believes, it could be religious thought. All we have to do is to find out what people of Tibet really want at this point of time. Dalai Lama does not decide what people of Tibet want. CTA officials do not decide what people Tibet want. Certainly few English speaking Tibetans do not decide what people of Tibet want. Nobody in this world decide what people of Tibet want except people of Tibet themselves.
At this time people of Tibet want Dalai Lama. People of Tibet want to stand behind Dalai Lama. People of Tibet want to believe in Dalai Lama. If anybody have problem with this, lets be it. Nobody can make 100% of population happy and satisfied. We just have to move forward.
so you think democracy is not important for tibetans. but that logic you are saying his holiness is wrong in guessing that tibetans should have democracy.
Whiteiscolour wrote:
“At this time people of Tibet want Dalai Lama.”
Not just at this time. People of Tibet have been HHDL since 5th Dalai Lama and will be with HH’s future incarnation.
” People of Tibet want to stand behind Dalai Lama.”
People of not just WANT to but stood and is standing behind HHDL . Tibetans die in self-immolation praising His name. During cultural revolution and Great Leap Forward when Tibetans faced starvation, even the weakest of the weak died raising their last faint voice in prayers for His long life. Chinese guards pulled their tongue to deny them of this last stand of resistance and faith.
“People of Tibet want to believe in Dalai Lama.”
People of Tibet NOT WANT to, but believe with unmatched devotion. They see even His image on the surface of moon.
” If anybody have problem with this, lets be it.”
No one has a problem with this at all. In fact, this is our strength. We do not want anything less.
But since, you seem to be someone important – with a voice of authority – we bend on our knees, fold our hands and bow in prostration to appeal to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to do something for Tibetan people inside Tibet.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s own official biographer based in Chicago once suggested that may be it is time for HHDL to secretly enter Tibet and then announce to the world that He is in Tibet!
A prominent Chinese writer suggested that His Holiness the Dalai Lama should declare to the world that Tibet is an Independent country, irrespective of whether any nation recognize or not, now (2008) that people in Tibet rose in revolt telling the world that they want FREEDOM.
Long time Tibet supporter based in Dharamsala once described that without talking about Tibet issue, Tibetans when they talk about world peace and religious harmony, they look are more and more like gold-fish.
HHDL has resigned from political leadership for TIBETAN PEOPLE to define their own path and future.Thank you HHDL, people have chosen sofar to pursue mw. Not sure when people will switch back to RAngzen to give it a try AGAIN.
To say NO ONE has problem with hhdl is not honest to oneself when it is quite obvious from many comments here having that problem.
People of Tibet want Rangzen and have burned themselves for the want of a free independent Tibet. They did not die for MWA. Please get this into your head Mr. Whitiesclour.
You sound no different from the minions in Dhasa, CTA and the DL camp that have forgotten all the sacrifices our brothers and sisters have made for Tibet since occupation.
You represent the sell out party that hide behind the powers that be, justifying some sort of MWA political package. Not in my name please.
Look yourself into the mirror and ask yourself if you are a true Tibetan. A true Tibetan will never sell out your country to the enemy that has destroyed our heritage and killed countless many of our folks.
Our solution is not a time bound schedule as it is with the MWA hurrying for a solution in the life time of HHDL. Rangzen will take time, and with our steadfastness and consistent efforts, in the back drop of our core principles; we will gradually and eventually see results.
As in the words of Jamyangla “our Khamju is not over..it is still a khamju (law suit) that is not yet resolved”.
I also would like to add that the shameful spectacle of KC being treated in the recent parliament episode, of our so called “democracy” was no different from the Communist Chinese or North Korean style of Thamzee. Pathetic. Sad.
I hope the DL can ratchet up his life span back to 113 after Karma Choephel’s apologies for speaking his mind.
Oh but gold fish has backbone that’s proportionate to its own size.
Jamyang la’s talk in Canada will be made available on Livestream.com
When? November 30, 2013 @ 12:00 Noon
Where? http://new.livestream.com/Rangzen/rangzenstrategy
” The pessimists are persuasive. They exploit fear and doubt .” -Anonymous
” There are more people waking up in the morning saying, ” I want to be smarter and better than I was yesterday, than there are waking up saying the world is doomed, I should build a bunker and hide-out.” – Annonymous
Jamyang Norbu la has explained how political landscape unfolded in Bhutan, ruling King to multiparty democratic system. Interestingly, JN could not come up with any political benefits enjoyed by the common citizen due to the changes took place. Why? Did people of Bhutan gain anything from these ruling changes otherwise it would not have happened? This is very important question. JN even mentioned how current prime minister of Bhutan criticized the King’s long vision of GDH.
JN said “There is a regrettable and absolutely unwarranted prejudice among older Tibetans (which the younger generation happily don’t seem to share) to look down on the Bhutanese as somewhat primitive and unsophisticated” Who said so? where is the evidence? This claim has no bases and absolutely untrue.
The constitution of Bhutan was drafted around 2001 and enacted in 2008. Series of pro-democratic protests, people involving almost 1/3 of the population, took place in Bhutan demanding for democracy and abdication of King’s power.
The constitution of Tibet (Charter of the Tibetans in Exile) was drafted in 1960s and finalized in 1991. No single pro-democratic protest took place against Dalai Lama demanding His resignation.
By given all these facts, JN has no factual grounds to call our government “THE SAD PAINFUL JOKE OF TIBETAN DEMOCRACY”.
JN said, “Our hur-tsunpa (Ch. jiji fenzi 积极分子) MP’s demanded that these malefactors not only be exposed but banished from exile society, not withstanding the fact that the exile parliament does not have any legal powers to do anything of the kind” This piece of article undermines the value of our Tibetan Exile Government by exaggerating the story. In short, the MPs voiced and stressed to challenge any individual face and face immediately in a transparent manner whoever accuses the Dalai Lama. There were no talks about banishing anybody from the society.
No Tibetans call you Chinese agents, Shugden followers and traitors because you demand Rangzen. This is nonsense. Tibetans call you with all these names because you disparage Dalai Lama and elected officials by making phoney stories such as this one.
If we have a common goal that is well being of all Tibetan people whether it is Rangzen or MW, we must not forget to play in the team Not against the team to achieve this goal.
@whiteisclour:
There always is a sense of prejudice towards the Bhutanese, which is commonly heard among Tibetans, especially the older crowd. I hope the younger generation will dismiss such labels.
With my limited knowledge, I can share an old much talked about event which supposedly transpired in Kalimpong Hatt Bazzar in the early 19th century. Kalimpong a busy trading center, with alot of Bhutanese and Tibetans on the scene.
A bunch of Tibetans and Bhutanese were playing either sho or mahjong; the Bodpa man says “Dukpa bhaypo (Newari-Nepal) yokpo ray, tong tong gyabar khye nye ray”. The Dukpa man all upset yelled “Bhodpa Gyami Yokpo ray, kyakpa gyabar khye nye ray”. A brawl ensued.
We have unfortunate labels for the Bhutanese, and I am sure they have a few on us as well. One such widespread label on the Aku Drukpas is “lalo ray” and “lopa ray”. Haven’t you heard older Tibetans say “Dukpa Kanjimma” (barefooted) said of them in a condescending tone as if they are primitive or uncivilized.
Such remarks and more are around, but we want to leave that alone, because these arise from sheer ignorance. We did look down upon them as barbaric, just as the Chinese look down upon us as such. These lables are unwarranted and unfortunate. The eveidence of such down talk is heard among older Tibetans accross the board.
Such feelings might have risen from the early wars we had with them, twice to my knowledge. The fleeing of the Shabdung to Drukyul and founding of that state, certainly started religious schisms and political turbulences between the two states.
I never understand why CTA is focus so much on controlling our own people to be like robots rather than focus on action plan against CCP. really need some reflection.
Tashi la
We Tibetans have lots of things called (shapshor) as you mentioned in your comments. Our Abohore tribe is the most famous subject of shapshor. We have shapshor for Khampa, Amdo, Toepa, Lhasa and so on. Bhutan is no exception in this regard. This art of mimiking culture is enjoyed as an entertainment form and it is not taken seriouly by general population.
I am saying again, general population of Tibet never look down on the Bhutanese as somewhat primitive and unsophisticated as JN indicated. There is no evidence or standard reference for such claim.
As I stated earlier labelings like “lalo ray” and “lopa ray” to me are not the same as mimiking culture. I don’t think such words are entertaining or artful to say the least.
I have heard shaphors on the many ethnic Tibetan tribes, but none with a mean streak as “drukpa lalo ray”, meaning drukpas are untrustworthy and crooked. “drukpa lopa ray” meaning drukpas are barbaric people.
We have to be really sensitive to these so called “mimicking” or “shapshor” art as such comments are not taken lightly in Bhutan, and certainly not seen lightly as mimicking.
We must know where to draw the line between a shapshor and a racially charged prejudice. There is no denying Tibetans have general attitudes of condescension towards the Bhutanese.
There is no actual evidence in document or reference needed. The evidence you want was answered by yourself when explaning “we Tibetans have lots of things called shapshor”.
So let us not dwelve on this topic anymore as it is not cool, and really there is no justification for such below the belt “shapshor” explanations as a kind of enjoyable entertainement.
Let us instead learn the good aspects of their successful democracy in transition and congratulate them. After all we are neighbors of the same people, and share the same religious and democratic aspirations.
the biggest lie, to avoid the failer policy of MWA
Dalai Lama now accuse Rangzen supporter of being behind the suffering of Tibetan people!!!!!
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=34276&article=Dalai+Lama+re-affirms+commitment+to+Middle+Way+Approach&t=1&c=1
“Some say we need to change the MWA, but if those of us living in free countries push for independence, the people who suffer as a result will be Tibetans in Tibet,”
Dalai Lama is unqualified to represent tibet politicaly
I think Rangzen supporter must do prolonged protest in Dharamsala, this is the only way to stop this nonsense
If you want definition of Middle Way Approach in one sentence, here it is:
“If we raise our voices for independence, we kindle the Chinese anger without achieving our goal.”
Basically its the same as saying if we don’t pretend to enjoy while being raped, we will anger the rapist even more and we will not achieve our “goal” – I don’t what goal though – orgasm? may be???
Now add the statement that we will get economic benefit if we remain captive and subservient to our rapist and tormentor. I say this is a case of extreme buddhism.
Extremists doesn’t necessarily need to blow up people and buildings. When someone pushes any idea so far to the extreme that it begins to sound ridiculous, he is by definition an extremist.
Tashi la
Are you defining the attitude of whole population base on some Show player’s dialogue? There are many ridiculous dialogues used by Show player to entertain people. Nobody takes them seriously. No Tibetan books contain such verse ” dugpa lalo ray”. No Tibetan scholars recite such verse. Tibetan general population do not hold such attitude towards Bhutanese. What other logical reasons do you have to make such a bold statement besides Show player’s dialogue?
There is no doubt we Tibetan do admire every success people of Bhutan enjoy.
Whiteiscolour:
In Buddhist philosophy there is saying which goes like this :
” There are lots of knowledge that you don’t know; there are lots many roads that (you) the donkey hasn’t taken.”
Keep in mind that when a shallow person like you don’t know, it just does n’t mean somebody is lying or things don’t exist.
In short you are my friend
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Sipmv38.jpg[/IMG]
Rangzen vs Middle Way
We have a scenario where armed robbery (China)come in a house with gun and demanding money (Tibet). Rangzen team do not want to give money and fight the robbery. Middle Way team want to give money as robbery demanded and do not want to fight. Both team have good reasons for their decision. The difference is the statistics show that people who try to fight with armed rebbery end up having severely injured or lost of their life. For such reasons it is not recommanded to fight with armed robbery.
You choose what you want to do in such scenario.
Moron @ 248 wrote:
” We have a scenario where armed robbery (China)come in a house with gun and demanding money (Tibet).”
Whiteiscolour,
You think:
Death of over million Tibetans, just an armed robbery?
Destruction of over six thousand monasteries, an armed robbery? These were not just prayer halls, there were our universities.
Forced sterilization of our women, an armed robbery ? You moron, can you even fathom, why an occupying force enforce this policy? To destroy the very race called : The TIBETAN, unfortunately unto which there are people like you too.
It amazes me how people like you thrives around Dharamsala and you know where, comparing armed occupation of an independent country to an armed robbery.
In early nineties, Tibetan NGOs were very active, attending lots of International conference of Human Rights, Women’s Rights etc. A well -intentioned representative of TWA ( Tibetan Women’s Association from Dharamsala) was often seen attending these high level conference. Though patriotic, she was ( and still ) making similar moronic arguments like one above.
Many of us were told that Chinese GONGOs ( Government Organized Non-governmental organization) representatives on seeing her ( again) at a different conference would rush to her and say that, they have been hoping to see her come for the conference .( for a good reason)
Moral of the story: know the gravity of the situation or the issue and bring it up to the level of International law. You do not try to denigrate our cause by comparing it to an issue of something like armed robbery.
It is amazing when we have a moron as Sikyong, making the argument that Tibetans do not want democracy and will accept Communist party rule, what do you expect ?
China Democracy activists couldn’t fathom what this moron from Harvard is saying. Prostration, His Holiness The Dalai Lama, is this our bottom-line ?
Whiteiscolour: You may believe that MW is the best way out. That is your right. You also have every right to convince others to your view points. But I thank you for thinking about Tibet, although I like many others think your point of view is wrong.
Cheers to JN for all your dedication. Irrespective of what Dharamsala think, which is irrelevant to many of us, I, my family and friends have no doubt in believing that you are true son of Tibet. A proud one. I will just Kyi Kyi so so la gyal lo !
Drukpa Kunley, i agree.
it seems middle way want to please and cater to the feel good, nicey nicey , politically correct thnking culture of the world. It appeals to the simple minded, fearful, law of Karma abiding folks. these views are entirely compatible with teachings but the belief that they are necessary or absolutely true is not.
Drukpa kunleg la
Is this the democracy are you guys talking about? Calling people with names such as moron? Even in the US, do you think you can call Obama a moron? I don’t know who you guys trying to fool.
Your opinion is just as good as mine. Nothing better. Don’t judge people without knowing them.
248 la, you are suffering from masochism like those tibetan sinophile leaders. these leaders love all things chinese food. they love chinese brocade. and they love the gyanag chagri or the wall of china pattern on their clothes, pillows, sheets everywhere and they like to play majong and they love being pissed on their heads by chinese.
the likes of you will prefer to lay back and enjoy it. not all of us are built like you.
Yes, Obama is called moron a the time. He has also been called traitor and a muslim sympathezer who is seliing out his country. You must live in a monastery or something if you didn’t know that.
Tsering Dolker la
It takes nothing to insult somebody with foul language. Anybody can do it. Obama may have been called all the names you mentioned but such individual could get into trouble if the behavior is persisted. It is not normal people calling moron to anybody. Such behavior is the indication of stupidity. I don’t want live in a society where people can call each other with all kinds of names, such as stupid, moron, animal, pig an so on. I experienced such behavior when I exchanged comments with CCP agents online.
It is wrong calling somebody moron but living in a monastery is not.
Whiteiscolour:
You raised three issues in your rejoined to me @ 251 post. I thought of giving up on you. But since you are very persistent. Here is my reply. Otherwise, what is my law degree from community college( Not Harvard!) any good.
Whiteiscolour,
Ye tell us,
What should we call,
If not moron, a moron?
You wrote: ” Is this the democracy are YOU GUYS (emphasis mine) talking about? ”
A. Look at your own language. Even in your disguise, you have more HATRED for JN and others who think giving up is not an option than you have for your CCP brothers, whom you conveniently called “agents” above.
B. Discern all your rejoinders. It is all a packaged lies to discredit JN. When you don’t get your bias confirmation, you try to take the moral high ground. Typical …( right, I intend to say the very word that is cropping up in your mind)
You wrote:
” Even in the US, do you think you can call Obama a moron? I don’t know who you guys trying to fool.”
I will entertain you ( and others) with a very popular joke. An American and Russian were having a heated discussion about rights and freedom enjoyed by its citizen in each others country.
The American says, ” We have so much freedom that we can go right in front of White House and say, President Obama, you are Moron.
The Russian said, ” What is big deal about it? We can also go in front of White House and say, President Putin is a moron.”
With your mind set, I fear you will have trouble getting the punchline of the joke. It is not a problem. I will tell you. The joke is: Although the Russian won’t have problem going in front of White House (in USA) and shouting President Putin is a moron, can he dare do this in Russia near Kremlin?
‘” Gali Gali May Shoor hai, Rajiv Gandhi Choor hai ” is one slogan raised during late Indian PM Rajiv Gandhi’s rule accusing him of being corrupt. ( Bofors) People didn’t go to jail. This just shows, the democratic rights of the great nations.
Sonny boy, although you got some anonymous bashing, think of it as tuition fee for the knowledge you gained, stories you heard, jokes you enjoyed. All said, you are one, not beyond redemption. I see you in Free, Independent Tibet.
ལངས་ཕྱོགས་མི་བརྟན་པའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཚོགས་པ།
ནམ་མཁའ།
ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་རི་སྒང་ཆུང་ཆུང་དེའི་རི་སྟོད་ཀྱི་ཟློས་གར་ཚོགས་པ་ནས་སྨད་གངས་སྐྱིད་བར་ཆབ་སྲིད་མི་གླེང་མཁན་ཞིག་དང་། ཆབ་སྲིད་ལ་དོན་སྣང་མི་བྱེད་མཁན་ཞིག་མེད་། དེ་ནི་གླེང་འོས་ཤིང་བསམ་ཚུལ་འདྲ་མིན་བཤད་དགོས་བ་ཞིག་ཀྱང་རེད། རྒྱུ་མཚན་ཅིའི་ཕྱིར་ཞེ་ན། རང་གི་ལུང་པ་གཞན་དབང་དུ་གྱུར་ནས་གཞི་སྡོད་སྤུན་ཟླ་རྣམས་མེ་མདའི་འོག་ན་དབུགས་གཏོང་ལེན་ཡང་བྱེད་དཀའ་བའི་གནས་སུ་ལྷུང་ཡོད་པས། གཞི་བྱེས་གཉིས་ཀྱི་སེམས་སུ་ན་ཟུག་བཟོད་མི་ཐུབ་པ་ཡོད་པའི་རྐྱེན་གྱིས་ཡིན།
རྒྱུ་མཚན་དེ་འདྲ་ཞིག་ལ་བརྟེན་ནས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་མི་འདྲ་བ་བྱུང་ཡོད་ལ། དེ་ནི་བྱུང་ཆོག་པ་ཞིག་ཀྱང་ཡིན་པ་མ་ཟད། ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་མི་འདྲ་བའི་དབང་གིས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཚོགས་པ་ཡང་འདྲ་མིན་བཙུགས་ཆོག་ལ་འཛུགས་དགོས་བ་ཞིག་ཀྱང་རེད། དེ་ནི་ང་ཚོའི་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིགས་འཛུགས་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་ཆེན་འདི་ལ་གོམ་གང་མདུན་སྤོས་བྱེད་བཞིན་ཡོད།
ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་མི་འདྲ་བ་གཙོ་བོ་གཉིས་སྟེ། བོད་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མ་འདོད་མཁན་གྱི་ཚོགས་པ་ཞིག་དང་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་འདོད་མཁན་གཉིས་བྱུང་ཡོད། རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་ལམ་ཁ་ལ་ཤར་བསྐྱོད་བྱེད་མཁན་གྱི་ཚོགས་པ་ཆེ་ཤོས་དེ་༼བོད་ཀྱི་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ་༽དང་༼དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་༽བོད་ཀྱི་ཆབ་སྲིད་བཙོན་པའི་ཚོགས་པ་དེ་གཉིས་ཡིན། ཚོགས་པ་འདི་གཉིས་ཀྱི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་དེ་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་དང་མི་མཐུན་པ་ཡིན། ཡིན་ཡང་འདི་གཉིས་ཀའི་དམིགས་ཡུལ་ཡང་གཙོ་བོ་བོད་མི་ས་ཡ་དྲུག་གི་བདེ་སྡུག་རེད།
འོན་ཀྱང་ཐབས་སྐྱོ་བ་ཞིག་ལ། བོད་གཞུང་དགའ་ལྡན་ཕོ་བྲང་གི་མིང་འདིའི་འོག་ཡོད་པའི་སྐབས་དེ་ཙམ་གྱི་རྩོད་རྙོག་ཆེན་པོ་ཞིག་ཏུ་གྱུར་མེད་མོད། འོན་ཀྱང་༼བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་༽ཞེས་བའི་ཐ་སྙད་འདིའི་འོག་ནས་བཟུང་། ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་མི་འདྲ་བ་འདི་གཉིས་བར་འགལ་ཟླའི་རྩོད་རྙོག་ཞིག་དུས་རྒྱུན་ཏུ་འབྱུང་གི་ཡོད་ལ། འདི་གཉིས་ཀྱི་རྩོད་རྙོག་དེ་མི་དམངས་དཀྱུས་མ་ཚོའི་ནང་འགལ་ཟླ་རྣོ་ངར་ཅན་ཞིག་ཏུ་གྱུར་ཏེ། རི་སྒང་ཆུང་ཆུང་དེའི་སྒང་གི་རྩོད་རྙོག་ཅན་གྱི་གླེང་གཞི་གཙོ་བོ་གྱུར་ཡོད། འདི་ལྟར་རྩོད་རྙོག་ཅན་ཞིག་ཏུ་གྱུར་དགོས་བའི་རྒྱུ་རྐྱེན་གཙོ་བོ་གཅིག་སྟེ། བོད་རང་བཙན་གྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་འཛིན་མཁན་ཚོ༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་བཀའ་དགོངས་དང་འགལ་གྱི་འདུག་ཅེས་མི་དམངས་དཀྱུས་མ་ཚོ་དང་ལས་བྱེད་སྲི་ཞུ་བ་འགས་དུས་རྒྱུན་ཏུ་ཚོགས་འདུ་སོགས་ཀྱི་སྐབས་གླེང་གཞི་ཅན་ཞིག་ཏུ་བཟོས་སོང་།
འདི་འདྲའི་གནོན་ཤུགས་འོག་༼བོད་ཀྱི་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ༽འི་རང་བཙན་གྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་དེ་ཡང་ད་ལོ་ཟླ་ཤས་སྔོན་ལ། གཞོན་ནུའི་ཚོགས་ཆེན་ཚོགས་པའི་སྐབས་ཕྱོགས་ཁག་གཉིས་སུ་དགྱེས་སྟེ། འཁྱག་རོམ་ཐོག་ཏུ་གོམས་པ་སྤོས་པ་བཞིན་ཁྱ་འཁྱོར་མང་པོ་བྱས་ཏེ། ཁོ་རང་ཚོའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་དེ་ཡང་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་གྱི་ངོ་བོ་བསྒྱུར་དགོས་ཟེར་ནས་འཐོར་གྲབས་བྱས། སྟབས་ལེགས་པ་ཞིག་ལ། བཀའ་བློན་ཁྲི་ཟུར་ཟམ་གདོང་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཡིས་ཐུགས་གུ་གཡེངས་པོའི་ཐོག་ནས་གསུངས་བཤད་ཀྱི་ནུས་པ་ལ་བརྟེན་རང་ཙན་གྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་དེའི་ཤར་བསྐྱོད་བྱེད་ཐུབ་ཙམ་བྱུང་།
ཁ་སང་དེ་རིང་ཆབ་སྲིད་བཙོན་པའི་ཚོགས་པ༼་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ༽ཡི་རྒྱུན་ལས་གསར་འདེམས་ཀྱི་ཚོགས་ཆེན་ཚོགས་སྟེ། མཐའ་མའི་གྲོས་ཆོད་རང་བཙན་གྱི་ལམ་ཁ་ནས་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་གྱི་ངོ་བོར་བསྒྱུར་འདུག་མོད། ཡིན་ཡང་དེ་ནི་ཁོ་རང་ཚོས་འགྲེལ་བཤད་ཞིག་ལ། གཞན་གྱིས་གནོན་ཤུགས་ཀྱིས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་བསྒྱུར་བ་མིན་ཅེས་གསལ་བཤད་འདྲ་ཞིག་བྱས་འདུག་མོད། འོན་ཀྱང་གསལ་བཤད་བྱེད་སྟངས་ལ་གཞིགས་ན་ཁོ་རང་ཚོའི་ནང་ཁུལ་དེ་ཡང་༼བོད་ཀྱི་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ༽བཞིན་ཕྱོགས་གཉིས་སུ་དགྱེས་བའི་རྟགས་ཞིག་མིན་ནམ་སྙམ། དེ་ནི་ཁོ་རང་ཚོས་གསལ་བཤད་བྱས་པ་བཞིན་ཡིན་པའི་རེ་བ་ཤིན་ཏུ་ཆེ་མོད།འོན་ཀྱང་བློ་ཕམ་པ་ཞིག་ནི། རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་ལམ་འདི་སྐྱུར་བ་དེ་རེད། ངས་འདིར་སྤོབས་པ་ཆེན་པོས་བཤད་འདོད་པ་ཞིག་ལ། བོད་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་འཐབ་རྩོད་འདི་ནི་༼ལོ་རྒྱུས་ཀྱི་བདེན་དབང་ཞིག་རེད༽ཅེས་སྐད་གསེང་མཐོན་པོས་བོད་མི་ཆ་ཚང་ལ་ཞུ་བཞིན་ཡོད།
ཕྲན་གྱིས་འདིར་བཤད་འདོད་པ་ཞིག་ནི། བོད་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་འཐབ་རྩོད་བྱས་ཚེ། ༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་བཀའ་དགོངས་དང་འགལ་གྱི་ཡོད་པར་མི་འདོད། རྒྱུ་མཚན་ཞིག་ཡོད་སྟེ། སྐུའི་གཅེན་པོ་སྐུ་གཤེགས་དམ་པ༼སྟག་འཚེར༽རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཡིས་ཀྱང་ཁོང་གི་སྐུ་ཚེ་གང་བོར་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་ལམ་ཁ་ལ་འབད་པ་བྱས་ཡོད་ལ། ཁོང་གི་སྐུ་སྲས་འདས་བོ་འཇིགས་མེད་ནོར་བུ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་འཐབ་རྩོད་ཀྱི་ལམ་ནས་རང་སྲོག་ཤོར་བ་རེད།
སྐུའི་གཅན་པོ་སྟག་འཚེར་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཡིས། ཁོང་གི་སྤུན་མཆེད་དེ་༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་ང་ཚོ་བོད་མི་ས་ཡ་དྲུག་གིས་ལྟ་སྟངས་བཞིན་རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཡི་འདུ་ཤེས་ཀྱིས་དད་པ་བྱེད་མིན་བཤད་དཀའ་ན་ཡང་།ཁོང་གི་སྤུན་མཆེད་ཀྱིས་བོད་མི་ས་ཡ་དྲུག་གི་སྣེ་ཁྲིད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པས་༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་བཀའདགོངས་ལ་རྒྱབ་སྐྱོར་བྱེད་རྒྱུ་ཞིག་ལས་ཐུགས་དགོངས་དཀྲུགས་པའི་བསམ་བློ་ཞིག་ནམ་ཡང་ཡོད་མི་སྲིད་པ་ཐག་གིས་ཆོད། ང་ཚོ་སུ་ཡིན་ན་ཡང་རང་གི་སྤུན་མཆེད་ལ་འགལ་ཟླ་ཤོར་འདོད་མེད་པ་དང་གཅིག་མཚུངས་རེད། དེས་རྐྱེན་བོད་རང་བཙན་གྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་བཟུང་ཚེ༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་ཐུགས་དགོངས་དཀྲུགས་ཀྱི་མེད་པའི་ར་སྤྲོད་བྱེད་ཐུབ་ཀྱི་འདུག་པ་མ་ཟད། ༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་ཐུགས་སུ་ཡང་གཅེན་པོ་སྟག་འཚེར་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་དང་ཁོང་གི་སྲས་ཚོས་ང་ལ་རྒྱབ་འགལ་བྱེད་ཀྱི་འདུག་སྙམ་པ་ཞིག་ནམ་ཡང་ཐུགས་སུ་ཤར་མྱོང་ཡོད་མི་སྲིད།
ཡིན་ཡང་བཙན་བྱོལ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་དང་རང་བཙན་གཉིས་ཀྱི་བར་རྩོད་རྙོག་ཅན་གྱི་འགལ་ཟླ་འདི་ཅི་ལྟར་རྒྱུན་མ་ཆད་པར་བྱུང་བ་རེད།དྲི་བ་འདི་ནི་ལོ་གཉིས་ཀྱི་རིང་རྒྱུན་ཏུ་འཁོར་གྱི་འདུག འདིའི་ཕྱོགས་སུ་དགག་ཕྱོགས་ནས་བསམ་བློ་བཏང་ཚེ། བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིགས་འཛུགས་ཀྱི་བཀའ་སྤྱིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ལ།སྐབས་རེ་མི་དམངས་ནང་གླེང་སློང་མང་པོ་བྱུང་བའི་སྐབས་སྲི་ཞུ་ལས་སྣེ་པ་ཚོས་ལམ་སེང་༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་ལ་མཚན་དམོད་ཞུ་གི་འདུག་ཅེས་མི་དམངས་ནང་བསྒྲགས་སྟེ། གླེང་སློང་དེ་འཇགས་ཐབས་བྱེད་ཀྱི་འདུག་སྙམ། མི་ཡི་རྣམ་རྟོག་ལ་མཐའ་མེད་པས་བསམ་ཚུལ་འདྲ་མིན་ཡོང་སྲིད་པ་ཞིག་རེད། མ་ཟད་ང་ཚོའི་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིགས་འཛུགས་འདི་དམངས་གཙོའི་ལམ་དུ་བསྐྱོད་བཞིན་ཡོད་ཅེས། དུས་རྒྱུན་ཏུ་སེང་གེ་བཀའ་ཤག་དང་སྤེན་པ་གྲོས་ཚོགས་ཀྱིས་མ་ཎི་བཞིན་འདོན་བཞིན་ཡོད།
བཀའ་སྤྱིས་༧གོང་ས༧མཆོག་གི་མཚན་རྙོག་དྲ་ཡོད་ཚད་ལ་དྲུད་ནས་འོང་དུས། མི་དམངས་དཀྱུས་མ་ཕྲན་ལྟ་བུ་ཚོ་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་སློབ་སྦྱོང་མེད་སྟབས། གཞུང་གིས་གང་བཤད་པ་ལ་ཡིད་ཆེས་བློས་འགེལ་གྱིས་རི་བོང་ཅལ་འདྲོགས་ཀྱི་རྗེས་སུ་འབྲངས་སྟེ། ཚོགས་པ་ཁག་ལ་གནོན་ཤུགས་དངོས་ཤུགས་གཉིས་ཀྱིས་སྤྲད་དེ། ༼བོད་རང་བཙན་གྱི་ལྟ་གྲུབ་ཚོགས་པ་གཞོན་ནུ་དང་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་༽ལྟ་བུ་དང་མི་སྒེར་བ་མཁས་དབང་འཇམ་ནོར་ལྟ་བུ་སོགས་ལ་མཐའ་འདེད་དང་ཕུད་འདེད་བྱེད་བཞིན་ཡོད་པ་རེད།
དེ་འདྲ་དབང་གིས་༼གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ་དང་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་༽ལྟ་བུའི་རང་བཙན་འཐབ་རྩོད་པའི་ཚོགས་པ་དག་ཡང་འཁྱག་རོམ་ཐོག་གོམས་པ་རྒྱབ་པ་བཞིན་ཁྱ་འཁྱོར་གྱིས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་བརྟན་པོ་མེད་པར་གྱུར་ཡོད། འདིར་བསྐྱར་དུ་བཤད་འདོད་པ་ཞིག་ནི། དབུ་མའི་ལམ་ཡིན་ཀྱང་ཆོག་ལ་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མའི་ལམ་ཡིན་ཀྱང་ཆོག འདི་གཉིས་ཀྱིས་བོད་མི་ས་ཡ་དྲུག་གི་བདེ་སྡུག་གི་ཆེད་དུ་འཐབ་རྩོད་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པ་དེ་ཤེས་གལ་ཆེ།
ཁ་བརྡ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་ཟླ་ཚེས་October 8th, 2013 ལ་ སྣ་ཚོགས། སྡེ་ཚན་དུ་སྤེལ|
རྗེས་འདེད་ དྲ་བྱང་། | དཔྱད་མཆན་གཅེས་བཏུས།
“ ལངས་ཕྱོགས་མི་བརྟན་པའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཚོགས་པ། ”སྐོར་ལ་་16 Comments་འདུག
1. # 1 འཇིགས་མེད།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 2:05 PM
རྩོམ་དེ་ཀློག་བདེ་པོ་དང་གོ་བདེ་པོ་ཞིག་བྲིས་གནང་འདུག་ ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ་ གཞན་དིང་སྐབས་རྩོམ་མང་པོ་ཞིག་
ཀློག་ཤེས་ཀྱང་དོན་དག་གང་ཟེར་གྱི་ཡོད་མེད་ཧ་ཅང་ཤེས་ཁག་པོ་འདུག་
2. # 2 རིག་རྡོ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 2:19 PM
བདེན་པ་འདྲ་ཞིག་བཤད་འདུག ད་ཡིན་ན་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་གྱི་ཚོགས་གཞོན་ཟུར་བ་ཀླུ་མཁར་བྱམས་ཀྱི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ལ་འགྱུར་གཏོང་རྒྱུ་ཡིན་ནམ། དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་གྱི་ཚོགས་པ་ནས་ཕྱི་ལ་ཐོན་རྒྱུ་རེད།
3. # 3 བྱང་དྲོན་་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 2:34 PM
ཚོགས་པའི་ལང་ཕྱོགས་བརྟན་པོ་མེད་པ་ནི་ཚོགས་མི་ཚོ་སྐྱིད་ཉལ་རྒྱག་རྒྱུ་མ་གཏོགས་དཀའ་ལས་རྒྱག་མི་འདོད་པ་དེར་རགས་ལས་ཡོད། རང་བཙན་ནས་དབུ་མར་འབབ་ན་གཅིག་ནས་ཚོགས་པའི་མིང་ཡོད་པ། གཉིས་ནས་མི་དམངས་ཀྱི་མངོན་འདོད་དང་མཐུན་པ། གསུམ་པ་ལས་འགུལ་ཤུགས་ཆེར་སྤེལ་མི་དགོས་པར་འབྲེལ་མོལ་སྒུག་ནས་སྐྱིད་ཉལ་རྒྱག་རྒྱུ་ཡོད་པ། དོན་ཚན་འདི་ཚོའི་དབང་གིས་བཙོན་ཁང་གི་སྒོ་འཛུལ་མྱོང་མེད་པའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་བཙོན་པ་རྣམས་བློ་བདེ་བག་ཕེབས་ཀྱིས་བཞུགས་རྒྱུ་ཡོད་པ་དེ་རེད་དོ།
4. # 4 དྲན་དཀར་དཔལ་ཡོན་་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 3:10 PM
གཞོན་ནུ་དང་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་བཙན་བྱོལ་མི་དམངས་བཅས་ལ་གུས་ཞབས་མེད་པ་རང་རེད། ང་རྒྱལ་ཅན་གི་རྩོམ་རེད། བཙན་བྱོལ་བ་ཟེར་ན་རྟ་འདྲོགས་པ་ལས་སླ་བ་ཞིག་མིན་ནམ་མཁའ་ཆུང་ཆུང་ལགས།
5. # 5 ཐོས་པ་དགའ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 5:48 PM
རིང་མིན་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ་དེ་ཡང་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཞབས་ཞུ་ཙམ་གྱི་ཚོགས་པ་ཞིག་ཏུ་འགྱུར་ཉེན་འདུག ཉེ་ཆར་གཞོན་ལྷན་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ཚོགས་གཙོས་གཞོན་ནུའི་ཉིན་མོའི་གཏམ་བཤད་དང་དེ་བཞིན་མི་མང་ཇི་ཙམ་འདུ་འཛོམས་བྱུང་བ་ལ་གཅིག་གཟིགས་དང་། སྤྱིར་ནས་བཙན་བྱོལ་བ་རྣམས་ཐབས་མཁས་དང་བསྟུན་མཁས་བྱེད་དགོས་ངེས་ཀྱང་ཉེ་བའི་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཀྱི་ཕལ་རིམ་ལ་གཟིགས་ན་བཙན་བྱོལ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ནང་ཁུལ་དུའང་ཚོགས་པ་དེ་ཚོ་ཡང་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་ལ་ཐབས་མཁས་བསྟུན་མཁས་བྱེད་དགོས་པ་ཤིག་ཆགས་པའི་ང་ལ་སྣང་བ་བསྟེར།
རྣམ་པ་ཚོས་རང་རང་སོ་སོས་རྣམ་དཔྱོད་ཀྱི་སྤྱན་ལས་བདེན་པ་གང་ཡིན་ལེགས་པར་དཔྱད་ནས་གཟིགས་རོགས།
6. # 6 དགེ་འདུན་རྒྱ་མཚོ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 8th, 2013 at 11:39 PM
ངས་བསམ་ན་གཞུང་དང་ཚོགས་པ་ཡང་ན་སྒེར་བ་གང་ཡིན་ཡང་ཡུལ་དུས་གནས་སྐབས་ལ་བསྟུན་པ་དང་མཐུན་པའི་སྒོ་ནས་འདུན་ལམ་འཚོལ་བ་དང་མདུན་བསྐྱོད་བྱེད་པ་ནི་མཁས་པ་རེད་བསམ་ཡོད།
ནམ་ཡང་གཡག་སྣ་ཁུ་ཚུར་བྱེད་མི་ཉན་པ་ང་ཚོས་ལོ་རྒྱུས་ཀྱི་ཉམས་མྱོང་ལས་ར་ཕྲོད་པ་བྱེད་དགོས།
རྒྱ་ནག་པའི་དམག་ཇུས་མཁས་པ་ཚོད་ཚོད་ཀྱིས་རླུང་གི་རྒྱུ་ཕྱོགས་ལ་སྒུག་པ་དང་དེ་དང་བསྟུན་ནས་མཚོ་དམག་གི་རྒྱལ་ཁ་བླངས་པའི་གཏམ་རྒྱུད་དེ་ཁྱེད་ཚོའི་ཐུགས་ན་ཡོད་ངེས་ཡིན།
ང་ཚོ་ནམ་ཡིན་ཡང་ལིའུ་ཁེ་དང་བོའུ་སུང་བྱེད་དགོས་པ་རེད་དམ།
རྒྱ་ནག་གི་དམག་ཁྲུག་ནང་ཨ་མདོ་དང་ཁམས་པས་མི་སྲོག་མང་བོ་ཤོར་ཡོད། མེ་སྲེག་གི་དོན་རྐྱེན་ནང་ཨ་མདོ་དང་ཁམས་པའི་མི་མང་བོའི་ཚེ་སྲོག་ཤོར་ཡོད། ཕྱོགས་གཅིག་ནས་བཤད་ན་འདི་ང་ཚོའི་རྒྱལ་ཁ་རེད་ལ། ཕམ་ཁ་ཡང་རེད།
7. # 7 གཅན་ཚ བཟོད་རྒྱམ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 2:51 AM
རང་བཙན་རྩོད་མཁན་འདས་པོ་དམ་སྐུའི་གཅེན་པོ་སྟག་འཚེར་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་དང་དེ་མིན་འདས་ཟིན་པ་དང་འཚོ་བཞུགས་པ་ཚང་མས་རང་བཙན་བརྩད་ན་༸རྒྱལ་པ་རིན་པོ་ཆིའི་དགོངས་གཞི་དང་འགལ་ཟླ་ཆགས་ཀྱི་འདུག ད་ཁོང་གི་ཐུགས་དགོངས་དཀྲུགས་གཞིར་འགྱུར་བའི་ལས་ཀ་འདི་བྱ་དགོས་བསམ་ནས་བྱས་པ་མི་གཅིག་ཀྱང་ཨེ་ཡོད་དམ་སྙམ། འོན་ཀྱང་རང་བཙན་བརྩད་པ་འདིའི་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་ཀྱི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་དང་༸རྒྱལ་པ་རིན་པོ་ཆེའི་དགོངས་གཞི་དང་མི་མཐུན་པའི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ཤིག་བཟུང་ནས་འགྲོ་བཞིན་ཡོད་པས་ན། སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་དང་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་གཉིས་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་བཞེངས་ཕྱོགས་དང་མ་མཐུན་པ་བྱུང་བ་རེད། དེ་ཡང་བོད་ཀྱི་དཀའ་གནད་བསལ་བའི་ལས་དོན་ཐོག་ལ་དགོངས་པ་མི་མཐུན་པ་གཉིས་བྱུང་པ་རེད། དེས་ན་དགོངས་གཞི་དེ་གཉིས་ཁ་ཁ་ཡིན་པས་རྩ་བས་ཆ་ནས་བོད་དོན་དང་བོད་ཀྱི་འཐབ་རྩོད་ཡིན་པ་ལ། ཐབས་ལམ་དང་གཙོ་ཆེར་དགོས་འདུན་མི་འདྲ་ཆགས་པ་རེད། དེ་ནས་རང་རང་གི་དགོངས་དོན་གཞི་བཞག་གིས་འགྲེལ་བཤད་རྒྱག་སྐབས་ཀྱང་ཕན་ཚུན་ལ་ང་བདེན་ཁྱོད་རྫུན་གྱི་སྐད་ཆ་བཤད་རེས་ཤོར་བ་རེད། དེ་ནས་རིམ་གྱིས་ཕན་ཚུན་ཁ་གཏད་ལྟ་བུར་ཆགས་ཏེ་སྐབས་ལ་ལར་ཚིག་ངན་ཡང་རེ་ཟུང་ཤོར་གི་ཡོད་པ་རེད།
སྐུའི་གཅེན་པོའི་རང་བཙན་འཐབ་རྩོད་ཀྱི་དགོངས་པ་འགྱུར་མེད་དང་། ཁོང་གི་སྲས་དང་ཚ་བོ་སོགས་ཀྱིས་ཀྱང་གཅེན་པོ་སྟག་འཚེར་ཚང་གི་དགོངས་པ་ཇི་བཞིན་མུ་མཐུད་ནས་རང་བཙན་འཐབ་རྩོད་གནང་གི་ཡིན་ཞེས་ཁ་སྔོན་ཨ་རིར་སྲས་འདས་པོ་འཇིགས་མེད་ལགས་ཀྱི་ནུ་ཡིས་ཀྱང་གཏམ་བཤད་སྤེལ་གནང་སོང་།
༸རྒྱལ་པ་རིན་པོ་ཆེས་ཀྱང་ཆབ་སྲིད་ལྟ་བ་མི་མཐུན་པའི་ཚོགས་པ་དེ་ཚོ་དགོས་ལུགས་བཀའ་སློབ་འགའ་རེ་་ཡོད་མོད། སུ་ཞིག་གིས་ཇུས་འགོད་དང་ཁ་དབང་ཡིན་ན། གང་ལྟར་རང་བཙན་འདོད་པའི་ཚོགས་པ་སྒར་པ་དེ་ཚོ་ག་ལེར་མེད་པ་ཆགས་ཉེན་འདུག
གཞུང་དམངས་ཚོགས་སྒར་ཚང་མ་དགོངས་པ་གཅིག་མཐུན་ཡིན་ལས་འགུལ་སྤེལ་བ་དང་བཀོད་ཁྱབ་གཏོང་བར་སྟབས་བདེ་ཡིན་ནའང་མཚམས་རེར་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་གང་དེ་ཡར་རྒྱས་ཚགས་ཚུད་ཡོང་བར་ཚོགས་སྒེར་དེ་ཚོ་དགོས་ངོས་ཡིན་ཞིང་། སྐབས་རེར་གཞུང་གིས་མི་ནུས་པ་དང་བྱེད་བདེ་མེད་པའི་ལས་འགུལ་རིགས་ཚོགས་སྒེར་དེ་ཚོས་བྱས་ཆོག་པའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་ལམ་ཁ་ཧ་ཅང་མང་པོ་འདུག་སྙམ།
གང་ལྟར་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་དང་གཞོན་ནུ་སོགས་སྔར་གྱི་ལྟ་བ་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ནས་སྐབས་བབ་རང་ནུས་ཅི་ལྕོགས་ཀྱིས་ལས་འགུལ་སྤེལ་ནས་བསྡད་པ་བཟང་སྙམ།
8. # 8 གསར་བུ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 7:39 AM
ཉེ་སྔོན་དགུ་ཅུ་གསུམ་ཚོགས་པའི་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ལོག་པ་དང་ཁ་སང་གཞོན་ནུའི་ཚོགས་ཐོག་ན་རི་བོང་གནམ་རྡིབ་ཀྱི་སེམས་ཁྲལ་ཡ་མ་ཟུང་ཅིག་གི་འོག་ན་ཅིག་ཅིག་ལ་དགོངས་དག་དང་ཉིག་ཉིག་ཅིག་ཕྱིར་འཐེན་ཟེར་བའི་སྐད་ཆ་གོ་བས་རྣ་ལ་གཟེར་ཤ་ལངས་ཤིང་ཡིད་ལ་སྨུག་པ་འཐིབས་བྱུང་། བོད་རང་བཙན་རྩོད་པ་ནི་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་བོད་གཞུང་ལ་རྒོལ་བ་ཞིག་མིན་པའི་བདེན་དཔང་༧མགོན་པོ་གང་ཉིད་ཀྱིས་ཡང་ནས་ཡང་དུ་གསུངས་པས་སོ། གང་ལྟར་མདོར་བསྡུས་ཏེ་བཤད་ན་འཕྲལ་གྱི་དཀའ་ངལ་ལམ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་ཁྲོད་ཀྱི་བཤད་ཡམས་ཙམ་ལ་གདོང་ལེན་བྱེད་མི་ཐུབ་ན་༼རང་བཙན་༽ནི་ནམ་མཁའི་སྐར་མ་ལེན་པ་དང་ཅིས་མི་མཚུངས། བྱེད་སྟངས་འདིས་རྡ་སའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་པ་ཚོ་སྐབས་འཚོལ་རང་ལུགས་པ་འབའ་ཞིག་ཡིན་པའི་རང་སྟོན་བྱེད་པ་རེད།
9. # 9 རིག་རྡོ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 9:26 AM
ད་གང་མགྱོགས་ཀྱིས་གཞོན་ནུ་ལྷན་ཚོགས་ཡང་རང་བཙན་ནས་ཐང་ལ་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་བཞིན་འགྱེལ་ངེས་རེད།ཁ་སང་གི་གཏམ་བཤད་ཡ་མ་ཟུང་རྐྱང་བཤད་ནས་འགྲོ་སོང་།
10. # 10 སྒྲོལ་མ་འཇིགས་སྒྲོལ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 9:42 AM
ལང་ཕྱོགས་མི་བརྟན་པས་ཆབ་སྲིད་ཕམ་ཉེས་ཡོང་བའི་སྔ་ལྟས་རེད
11. # 11 སྒྲོལ་མ་འཇིགས་སྒྲོལ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 9:52 AM
ཡུལ་གྱར་བོད་མི་དཔོན་རིགས་རྣམ་ཀྱི་དང་པོ་རང་བཙན་དེ་ནས་ཚད་མཐོའི་རང་སྐྱོང་དེ་རྗེས་དབུ་མའི་ལམ་དེ་ནས་རྒྱ་མི་ཅི་གསུང་བཀའ་སྒྲུབ་ཞུ་རྒྱུ་དམའ་དུ་དམའ་དུ་རེད
12. # 12 རིན་ཆེན་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 11:23 AM
རྡ་སའི་རྐུབ་ཐུང་ཁྲོམ་གྱི་མོ་ལྷ་ཚོགས་པའི་ཁ་སྡིག་འདི་བཙན་པོ་རེད་ལ། བོད་ཀྱི་གཞོན་ནུ་ཚོགས་པ་སྐད་གྲགས་ཅན་པོ་དེ་ད་ལོ་ཁྲི་ཐོག་ནས་ཐང་ལ་གཡུག་ལ་ཁད་བྱས་སོང་།
དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་ཆབ་སྲིད་བཙོན་པ་ཚོགས་པ་ཐང་ལ་གཡུག་ནས་ད་རུང་ལངས་མ་ཐུབ་པར་ལུས་འདུག་ཧཧཧཧཧ བོད་ནང་གི་དཔའ་བོ་དཔའ་མོ་ཚོའི་བཀའ་དྲིན་ལ་ད་རུང་ཡར་ལངས་ཐུབ་པའི་རེ་བ་ཡོད།
13. # 13 ལུང་རྟོགས།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 10:56 PM
འུར་བཤ་མ་མང་དྲ་འབུ་ཚོ། ཆབ་སྲིད་ཀྱི་ཚོགས་སྡེ་སུ་ཡིན་ཡང་ལངས་ཕྱོགས་ལ་འགྱུར་བ་འགྲོ་ཆོག་གི་རེད། དར་ལ་ཧང་སང་ཡ་ག་རེ་འདུག
14. # 14 ལུང་རྟོགས།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 9th, 2013 at 10:57 PM
འུར་བཤད་་་་དེ་ལ།
15. # 15 རིག་རྡོ་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 10th, 2013 at 9:33 AM
ཡང་ལུང་རྟོགས་ཀླད་པ་རྡོ་འདི་སླེབས་འདུག ད་ཡིན་ན་ཁྱོད་སོང་ནས་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་གྱི་ལས་ཁུང་ཐོག་ལ་སྐར་ལྔའི་དར་དམར་སྒྲེངས་ཞོགས། ད་རྒྱ་གཞུང་གིས་གཞོན་ནུ་དང་དགུ་བཅུ་གསུམ་གཉིས་ཀྱི་རང་བཙན་དོར་ན་བོད་རྒྱ་གྲོས་མོལ་སང་ཉིན་བྱེད་ཀྱི་ཡིན་ཟེར་གི་འདུག་གམ།
16. # 16 ཆོས་འཕེལ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
October 10th, 2013 at 1:24 PM
བྱེས་འབྱོར་བོད་མིའི་ཚོགས་སྤྱི་ཡོངས་ཀྱི་ལྟ་བ་དང་ལོང་ཕྱོགས་ཚང་མ་དབུ་ལམ་ལ་སྒྱུར་བ་ཡིན་ན་རྒྱ་དམར་གྱིས་ད་ལྟ་ཉིད་དུ་༧གོང་ས་མཆོག་དང་བོད་མིའི་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་འཁོར་དང་བཅས་པ་རྒྱ་ལ་གདེན་འདྲེན་ཞུ་རྒྱུ་ཡིན་པས་ལྷ་བླའི་ལུང་གིས་ཟིན་པ་རེད། ཧཧཧཧཧཧཧ། བོད་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་སྒང་ཁའི་དར་ལྕོག་འདྲ།། རྒྱ་མིའི་ཆབ་སྲིད་རི་རབ་ལྷུན་པོ་འདྲ།། བལྟས་ཀྱིན་བལྟས་ཀྱིས་ལྟད་མོ་མཐོང་ཡོང་གིན།། བསམ་གྱིན་བསམ་གྱིས་སེམས་པ་སྐྱོ་ཡོང་གིན།།
Drugpa Kunleg la
You called “CCP brothers”? This says it all. It does not take law degree to call somebody moron. It does not 30 years of experience to insult somebody. All it takes is stupidity. I have been living in the West since 1989. Now you be the judge if your understanding of American society is better than that of mine. I respect JN as much as I disagree with JN. I don’t call him moron.
From Khabdha:
མི་རྗེ་སྲིད་སྐྱོང་བློ་བཟང་སེང་གེ་མཆོག་ལ་བསྟོད་པ།
# 2 རྒྱང་མིག་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
November 30th, 2013 at 9:19 AM
བསྔགས་པར་བྱ་བའི་གནས་ནི་ཅི་ཡང་མེད།།
མཛད་རྗེས་གླེང་ཡུལ་གཏམ་ནི་ཅི་ཡང་མེད།།
གྲུབ་འབྲས་ཡོད་པའི་ལས་ནི་ཅི་ཡང་མེད།།
དོན་དུ་ཝ་སྐྱེས་སེང་གེར་བསྒྲགས་པ་ཙམ།།
# 4 འདྲེ་རྐང་ཐོ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
November 30th, 2013 at 1:34 PM
ཁ་བཤད་ལག་ལེན་མེད་པའི་བོད་མིའི་སྲིད་སྐྱོངས།།
སློབ་ཆེན་འགྲིམས་ཀྱང་དེ་ཙམ་ཡིན་པའི་སྲིད་སྐྱོངས།།
དོན་ལ་རིགས་ཞེན་མེད་པའི་དེང་དུས་ཀྱི་སྲིད་སྐྱོངས།།
གང་ལ་བལྟས་ཀྱང་ལྟ་ས་མེད་པའི་རྡོ་ཡི་སེང་གེ།
# 5 སྙེ་ལྷའི་ཐུགས་སྲས།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
November 30th, 2013 at 11:06 PM
ནགས་ལ་གནས་པའི་སེ་གེ་མ་ཡིན་པར།།
སྒོ་ཐེམས་བསྲུང་བའི་ཁྱི་རྒན་སེང་བརྫུས་དེས།།
རང་ངོ་འཕྲོད་པ་ད་དུང་མི་འདུག་པས།།
མང་པོའི་རེ་བ་སྐོང་བར་མི་ནུས་སོ།།
# 6 བསོད་ནམས་དཔལ་ལྡན།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
December 1st, 2013 at 3:43 AM
ཆབ་སྲིད་མི་ཤེས་མུན་ནག་མདའ་འཕེན།།
གཏམ་བརྗོད་མི་ཤེས་རང་བསྟོད་ཞེ་ཚིག།
ཆོས་རིག་མི་ཤེས་ལྐུག་པའི་ངང་ཚུལ།།
སློབ་ཆེན་འགྲིམས་པའི་དན་རྟགས་་མེད་པ།།
སྲིད་སྐྱོང་ཁྱེད་ལ་བསྟོད་རིན་མི་འདུག།
# 8 བཙག་རོང་འཇོལ་མོ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
December 1st, 2013 at 7:45 AM
གང་ལ་མཁས་པ་གནས་པའི་སར།།
དེ་ན་བླུན་པོ་རང་མདངས་སྟོན།།
གང་ལ་འཇོན་སྟངས་ལྡན་པའི་སར།།
དེ་ན་ཇབ་རས་ལུང་པ་གང་།།
# 9 བར་ཕུ་ཕུན་ཚོགས།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
December 1st, 2013 at 8:41 AM
ཕྱི་རུ་དབྱིན་སྐད་ཀློག་དུས་བདེ་ཤིག་ཤིག།
ནང་དུ་བོད་ཡིག་སྒྲོག་སྐབས་ངག་དོག་དོག།
བོད་མིའི་རིག་གནས་ཤེས་བྱ་སྐྱོ་ལྷང་ལྷང་།
དགའ་སྤྲོའི་ཐལ་སྒྲ་ད་ལྟ་སྔ་དྲགས་དྲགས།།
# 10 འདྲེ་རྐང་ཐོ།་ལགས་ཀྱིས་མཆན་བཏབ་པ།:
December 1st, 2013 at 2:07 PM
དབྱིན་སྐད་བཤད་དུས་མཛའ་མོ་རང་མི་འདུག།
བྲིས་པའི་དབྱིན་ཡིག་ཚིག་སྦྱོར་ངོ་ཚ་བྱེད།།
དྷ་སའི་ལྡོམ་པོ་ཚོ་ཡི་ནང་ལ་ཡང་།།
དབྱིན་སྐད་གཉིས་ཀ་ཁོང་ལས་ཡག་སེ་མང་།།
Jamyang Norbu Rightly said, we engage in trivial arguements when JN writes about the exile politics. On the other hand his critics criticises him not writing so much about CHina- our real enemy. But, when JN writes about china’s destruction and ill treatments of Tibetan– People dont pay much attention.
@whiteiscolor– your response is typical of that. Yo have been living in the west for that long and still havn’t learnt the lessons of democracy, that speaks volume of your shallowness.
Peace out and chill out!
Tenpa la
It hurts more when one of your own harm you. You shouldn’t be surprised. You can criticize but do not use the same line our enemy have been using against us.
Whiteiscolour:
This is my last and final rejoinder to you. I was hoping someone will do it. From all your writings it is clear that you are here not because you ” respect JN as much as you disagree”.
You are also not here to learn about other persons point of view and appreciate where it is coming from: out of patriotism. Undying love for one own’s fatherland. Raped and assaulted by China, if you want an imagery.
I addressed you as sonny boy thinking that you are younger than me. From your writing it turns out, you are like my father’s age. When you are in the west, me and my friends were frequenting Chanakiyapuri police station protesting China. I counted 21 times. 1987 – 1989 was the period, when Tibetans rose in mass revolt and late Pachen Lama passed away in suspicious condition. This was during those days, when you were minting dollars preaching…
You stayed this long in west and even couldn’t figure out how the word color is spelled differently. ( What to expect about learning about other things ?)
You wrote:
” It hurts more when one of your own HARM ( emphasis mine ) you.”
Who is harming our cause? What makes you think, your point of view is right? Divine visitation. This illogical emotional blackmail is going on for too long and is the basis for THAMZING for anyone who believes in Independence for Tibet. Harming you?
” You can criticize but do not use the same line OUR ENEMY have been using against us.”
There is two things wrong with this statement. First, your kinds are talking of “Embracing the Enemy .” So where is the enemy for you ? Unless, of course, you mean to imply your Comrades in Beijing ?
Then from other side of your mouth, you act as guardian and upholder of TRUTH. So, the “truth” supposed if even told by your sworn enemy, where is the ” harm ” ?
Goodbye old man. You are beyond redemption. Good luck with your ” my way is the highway and the right way type of argument.”
J.N. -la. Thanks for great work. I salute your answering to the call of the duty for Tibet. The least I can do is say Thank You. Tashi Deleg.
Kunleg la
You can express your opinion any way you want with your psychic and English degree, it will not change the fact. The fact who I am, the fact middle way approach is supported by vast majority of Tibetan people, the fact JN’s ideology is supported by only handful of people. If you want to debate Rangzen vs Middle Way, I will debate with you any time. My heart is open to learn anything that make sense and Rangzen doesn’t not make sense based on our situation. Right now we need unity and whoever disrupts the unity they are doing harm to our society. As I said ultimately people of Tibet will decide what they want not JN or not you or me. At this time people of Tibet want to stand behind Dalai Lama. If you don’t like this, it’s too bad.
enough & enough…Whiteiscolour,you have made your point & I respect your honesty but despise your attempt in draping yourself in the Red Flag….now allow me a few lines on the difference between Jamyang la & the three stooges sorry meant …your three heroes.
One of the fundamental differences between Jamyang Norbu and the three Sikyongs, Samdhong Rinpoche,Penpa Tsering,Lobsang Sangay is that when Jamyang la says something outrageous, it’s actually true. Jamyang la is many things, but stupid is not one of them. The Sikyongs, on the other hand, have an earnest naivete that sometimes manifests itself in misguided attempts at being profound..which sadly is quite frequent.
p.s although Penpa Tsering has never served as a Sikyong and planet Earth not having heard of him,I will give him his credit of an imaginary Sikyong for his zest & pompous attitude.
Whiteiscolour (sequel)
I cant help but reply to your last sentence of our ” people in Tibet want to stand behind Dalai Lama” from when did HH become your friend ! I thought it was His Holiness or HH or HH Dalai Lama,we Rangzen people can be forgiven if we occasionally forget to write HH as the Umey Lam people consider us to be the bad guys and the people who took our country the good guys..it’s simply shocking on your part & I hope it won’t happen again….I normally ask people to slap themselves three times for their misdeeds…you can slap yourself four times for your grave offense & I know you agree with me on this point.
Whitescolour, did you slap yourself four times? Really, only four times for you? Because that isn’t enough to wake you up. You need to slap yourself 126 times for those martyrs who burned themselves calling for Rangzen.
After that your hearing might improve on what the vast majority of Tibetans have been calling for in Tibet. Listen, we have two ears and a mouth, which means we need to listen twice as much than we speak. Listen.
As Jamyangla rightly pointed out, some people don’t read his articles, and then make assumptions about him. Any wonder why CTA has fallen on deaf ears when Tibetans are dying in Tibet calling for Rangzen? Or is it for MWA?
Topgyal La
I honestly thank you for pointing out my mistake. If there is one person I must respect and honor in this world is His Holiness Dalai lama. If there is one religion I must believe in this world is Buddhism. If there is one race I must fight for in this world is Tibetan.
You forgot one most important difference between Jamyang Norbu la and our Sikyongs whom you called stooges is that Jamyang Norbu la is not a elected person.
There is one common thing among our Sikyong and Jamyang Norbu la is that they all make mistakes.
@ 265
Please dont be stupid. dont compare Jamyang Norbu with Sikyong. What can you learn from Sikyong? nothing!atleast people are learning something everytime from Jamyang Norbu. Sikyong is first of all so boring and doesnt know much things except what he ratofied in Harvard.He is the politician type thats why he got elected obviously.
Whiteiscolour
I was willing to give Sikyong Lobsang Sangay a pass and actually voted for him on his campaign platform of U-Rang,but the Sikyong crossed the line(after being elected)when he said with a straight face that he ran his campaign on Umey Lam,he also crossed the line when he said “Tibet we never had a country” he again crossed the line when he said “we are not seeking democracy for our people in Tibet”…….and if not for decency…I could write much more.
This is why in my earlier post…I had written that ‘ The Sikyongs, on the other hand, have an earnest naivete that sometimes manifests itself in misguided attempts at being profound..which sadly is quite frequent.”
the comparison between Jamyang la and the Sikyong is akin to comparing an Aston Martin to a Lada,in intelligence,integrity and the passion for our people and country.
Topgyal La
There is no dispute about Jamyang Norbu La’s expertise and experiene but he is still not immune from mistakes. For such reasons, I am here to point out some of the mistakes he has been making.
Most of the time common people do not see what leaders see. Wise political decisions are made based on situations. You and I have no doubt on Tibet being independent country. Who else recognize Tibet as independent country in this world? I worked and met with so many Chinese people in my life, none of them believe Tibet is a independent country. Even situation changes in china, even leadership changes in China, their political stand on Tibet most liley remain unchanged. Independent Tibet is not a undisputed subject on international stage. As much as we have evidence and history to prove independent Tibet, China has no shortage to prove Tibet being part of China. Neither there is a way to win Rangzen with violent nor with peaceful measures. Unfortunately it seems everything is against us in terms of Rangzen. For such reasons, I assume His Holiness Dalai Lama envisioned Middle Way Approach and mojority of Tibetan people supporting it.
a friend of mine over the week-end threw this on me …”Imagine China allowing sweeping right’s as entailed in the Umey Lam to 1/2 % of the population living in a territory that is 25 % of the present Chinese map…and the MWA people believe it’s possible”!
Whiteiscolour
let’s be honest,you support the MWA because of your devotion towards Kundun,if tomorrow His Holiness embarks on Rangzen,I am certain you would change to Rangzen.
as for you acknowledgment there there is no dispute to Jamyang la’s experience and expertise,you could also have added that there is no dispute in his integrity and devotion towards our people and country.
@269: Its not just Jamyang Norbu but all of us are not immune to mistake. We are paying for the collective mistake made over 1000 or so years.
Topgyal La
Absolutely there are challenges even with Umey Lam. At the end we may have to come up with some kind of common ground that is agreeable by two parties. There is no other alternative. If you do not see MWA is possible than how do you see Rangzen possible?
For many Tibetans including myself, protecting and ensuring our Tibetaness such as our way of life, way of thinking, simply be Tibetan are more important than protecting and ensuring our independent territorial land.
Many Tibetans including some here who claim to have high patriotism on this blog already loosing their Tibetaness by fading their faith in Dalai Lama, looking down on monks and our Buddhist cultures. No need to mention growing distance between many Tibetans and Tibetan literature, profound Buddhist philosophy, language, arts and all other knowledge fields that defined us as Tibetan. Without all of this Tibetan would look like Tiger with no fangs and no claws and no stripes. My support for MWA is not based on devotion but based on logical reasons.
Things change according to situation. At this point of our history, Umey Lam suits the best to achieve our goal. Nobody can tell that we will never seek Rangzen in the future.
I salute all Jamyang Norbu la’s contribution, his dedication, his patriotic attitude, his enthusiasm, especially tapping on China’s nose by talking about Rangzen related issues. Jamyang Norbu la is not a bad person at all but he is surely wrong in many areas.
WHITEISCOLOUR you may not be a bad person either but you are surely wrong in many areas too. As the poets say, it’s human to err.
Protecting our Tibetaness? Like sticking out our tongue in greeting, or burning dung for fuel? To insure our Tibetanness, would you also agree that Tibetan women shouldn’t work, be educated, beaten once in a while, since that was okiedokie then.
Shouldn’t we demand world leaders like Obama to prostrate before His Holiness or demand that he should be enthroned since for us Tibetans, there is no greater truth than He? What about wearing chuba and not suit? Or, demand UN employ the Narchang Oracle to solve global warming and cancer?
Why not theocracy for exiles, since the very idea of democracy is corrosive to the idea of blind bias toward one individual, more importantly since theocracy will do quite nicely for the majority, as this is our tradition, to bow and scrape and live in spellbinding superstition?
There are those who think, Tibetans are blessed with the most sublime dharma, a veritable Lion’s Roar, the wisest beings in the Universe in Tulku forms, these celestial have chosen their happy abode in Tibet. And yet, ironically, with all that fortuitous karma, wisdom, power and bottomless arcane knowledge, we still find ourselves banished from Eden, home of the Gods, meanwhile, many a godless atheist nations are flourishing,advancing technologically and intellectually, evolving and adapting, which correlates with healthier, longer lived citizens. You may be living in such a society even if you don’t appreciate it. Stat poles have indicated that these Godless places are the happiest, safest places to live, to raise ones children. (Scandinavian countries)
How do you explain this…. Why can’t we go this route too? Who raped Kulu rinpoche?
Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face by her own people who justify their action as protecting a sacred traditional principle, that girls should not be educated. As a traditionalist, is there any place for the malala yousafzais in our society?
I have read that Tibetan buddhism is not to be blamed for our backwardness or lost of a country, nor is China to be blamed either; the blame lies, as His Holiness once insinuated, in our National Karma. Wouldn’t you agree that profundity sans utility equates non falsifiability, and, therefore, no Science?
Tibetan Buddhism has spoken its last intelligible sentence with nagarjuna, those blissfully gullible days of the masses, that sun is now fast setting,and Tibetan Buddhism will not find a firm niche in neuroscience as this fledgling field advances.
Tibetan Buddhist philosophy is so profound that these days, even His Holiness’ teachings in the West are bereft of Dharma, silent as a stillborn on deities and rebirth, now his talks are suffused with ideas in Science; the Environment and Ethics.
Whiteiscolor, you seem certain that majority of Tibetans in Tibet support MW doctrine. First, where is your evidence? Yes MW is supported by most Tibetans in exile but than, why has not one of the 123 to set themselves alight mentioned MW explicitly?
How certain can you be that most Tibetans in Tibet don’t support China? Again, any evidence to the contrary?
Woeser la wrote,”I believe that Tibetan exile society needs to raise the level of its own political modernization. This kind of modernisation is not just the appearance of democracy only on the surface but a real understanding of and compliance with the ideas and principles of democracy, especially to accommodate a variety of views, receive criticism, as well as to monitor those who are in control, these things are the true essence of democracy.”
Stange that here we have someone living inside occupied Tibet who sees the true value of democracy, who desire it keenly, while you, living in a free democratic society, talk as if you find secular values over rated, and at the same time, pining for some form of feudalism.
To continue
Lying is second nature to these righteous people.
Stealing in the form of applying for welfare pretending to be single parents or receiving under the table payment to avoid taxes. In my experience I have found godless people more honest. Sad thing that future of Tibet lies in the hands of such righteous people.
Whiteiscolor la are you currently in Tibet or Dharsa now or do you live in Arie and your children are born and raised in Arie? When are you sending them to live in India or Tibet so they can retain their tibetanness ? How can you and your children retain the Tibetan way of life, Tibetan way of thinking, simply being a Tibetan as you said by living all your life in a foreign country? How come you feel no shame pointing accusing finger at other Westernized Tibetans in foreign countries as not being enough Tibetan yet you and your whole family moved to USA when if you really desire to keep Tibetan tradition alive, you would have stayed put in India or moved to Tibet. Why do many Tibetans when they come to USA act as if they are the keepers of Tibetan Tradition, look down on the older community but few years later, they are just as absorbed in their own western lives as those who came before?
@273, ARe those the definition of being Tibetanness for YOU or YOUR understanding of our culture or tradition and Buddha dharma?
Tibetan collectively will choose the future not one or few no matter how important one may make of himself.we are not short of showpuppy!
WHAT DREAMS MAY COME
I understand your dispointment, but believe it or not, the Tibetans fails to resolve the Tibetan issue after five decades is not the blame to Dharma, it might have some blames to our culture of bowing to the nobles, but any way this is nothing to do with Dharma
Buddhism is perfect, Buddhist is not
Buddha never said don’t defend yourself, in fact, according to Mahaparinirvana sutra, Lord Buddha has killed Hindu Brahmin in his past life to defend himself!!!!
and Chinese Buddhist monks has been long time use this sutra to justify there violence against Japanese colonials!!!!!
so chinese Buddhist long time practice self defense, why we Tibetans not!!!
the irony, the Chinese now want to build a statue in praise to the Korean who killed Japanese prime minister during the Japanese occupation!!!!
so who is to blame now???
Dharma??? or we Tibetans???? or His Holiness????
I agree also with Whiteiscolour in this point, also I disagree with him in others points, that Tibetans without being Tibetaness is the first goal of China to end Tibet forever
There strategy is ending Tibetan culture, Buddhism, and then they can assimilate to Chinese culture
Never in my mind Tibet was some kind of Shangrila or land of utopia. Just like any other societies in this world, Tibet had its own problem. Having said that we shouldn’t be “throwing out the baby with the bath water”.
I am so pround of my Tibetaness and I do my best to past this precious tradition to my children and other youngsters. Our Tibetaness is the weopon to fight against China. We should never loose it either you support MWA or Rangzen. This is more important than creating American style democracy.
What Dreams May Come la
Didn’t you know 120 plus self immolators in Tibet called Dalai Lama’s name? Isn’t this enough evidence for Tibetan people inside Tibet believing in Dalai Lama’s leadership?
If there are any Tibetans inside Tibet against Dalai Lama’s effort, China will be the first one to take advantage. I don’t even know where you got this doubt.
whiteiscolour
Tibetans self immolaters shouted for His Holiness to return doesn’t mean they really support his political approach, they rather, devoted to His Holiness religiously, and think about him as an icon of Tibet, but there call for Rangzen are in contradict to His Holiness approach
so, that can be understood, that most Tibetan protester support independence, but use His Holiness as an icon to unified and represent Tibet
Just like TYC members, who put His Holiness images, and bow to him, but does not support him in his political attitude
280 HEAR HEAR
American democracy or society that is so admired by many Tibetans as if it is a flawless. On the other hand, China has distributed all kinds of propaganda materials around the wold about Tibetan society by focuing on nagativity of the society without mentioning a single positive thing about us. Now why we have to focus on nagativities of our society instead of positivity?
I don’t even know where to begin the flaws of the American society, slavery to oppression of woman in the past, gun related violence, drugs, greed, gap between rich and poor in modern time. Many Tibetans even think American constition is free from religious influence which is not the case. Many Tibetans who supposedly educated trend to over value American culture and undermine our own culture.
Jamyang Norbu La and many of his fans need to start saying some positive things as well about CTA and our elected leaders.
We are trying to work to free people in Tibet. It’s the duty of CTA to lead us there. We are not some new age mutual admiration society.
Why are we not showing half as much anger towards Chinese who massacred our people, stole our land, home and property and yet look so composed.
I have never seen that much anger as directed towards KC. Why are we not angry with Chinese.
KARZE
I guess, its due to HHDL tolerating chinese massacre but total intolerance toward Tibetans who trying to look beyond His Holiness!!!!!!
this is reflecting in the Tibetans attitude, who blindly support HHDL
They are willing to use violence against Rangzen supporter, but advocate total non-violence toward Chinese!!!!
The writing and talks of Jamyang la and the crass pompous retorts by Penpa Tsering has a chance to be a seminal moment for the exile Tibetan community, but it won’t be. Samdhong Rinpoche’s deep-sixing of the TYC barely moved a dial,the back-to-the past of 113 to 108,Karma Chophel’s moment of greatness and months of attacks later became the moment of darkness with his shriveling apology,this brand of thuggery will continue because His Holiness won’t do the right thing, which is send the message that attempts to silence the people’s voice is intolerable. That would mean kicking the Speaker and his alter ego Samdhong Rinpoche into the cave they belong or to Beijing where they could find wealthy Chinese businessmen to gift them mansions. If there’s ever going to be real change to our society, it’s going to have to come from outside – specifically, from elected lawmakers with the resolve to legislate changes to a system that’s lost the ability to govern itself.
for fear that Norbu Tsering the undistinguished North American Chitue member would feel left out…let’s also include him to that trip to Beijing.
Most Tibetans if not every Tibetans share the sentiment of respecting one of the core value of democracy that is freedom of expression. What is not realized by some Tibetans is that we have a political situation that demands united voice, united view, united fight against the mighty enemy (China. We are not talking about health care, we are not talking about education, we are not talking about economy, we are talking about very existence of ourselves.
For a moment lets imagine we have a exile government that is comprise of different political parties with different political ideology such as MWA, Rangzen, New Tibet and more. This will automatically create divisions among the population and possibly very ugly one. Our resources will be spend to over throw rival parties instead of fighting against China. Such division is China’s dream come true sort of speak.
WHITEISCOLOUR
First of all, what is your definition of “Unity”. And where is the “Fight” in “Middleway Approach” that you seem so determined to defend?
If Unity was the main concern of HHDL or the Exile Government then why did they abandoned the Rangzen as our goal and decided to surrender our sovereignty to China. Now let what ever happened happen. If some people want to pursue MWA then that is their right but to demand or expect that Rangzen believers also abandon their dream and aspirations and join the rest of flock is going a bit too far.
Lets leave politics aside and talk about basic truths. You see, we are not robots, we are human beings. And human beings are bound to have different opinions, dreams and sense of right and wrong based on their experience.
There will be Unity if there is a Goal that all Tibetans can unanimously agree on. And hopefully with the leadership of CTA – if not HHDL – work towards it.
And We have such a Goal – RANGZEN.
Deep in your heart, even YOU want Rangzen. How can you not? unless you are not a Tibetan.
I said hear hear to 281 which was 280 when I said hear hear unless I had too much angel cake laced.
Dr. X you said it. That’s exactly what people need to understand. We are not robots. And what is the point of Unity if the basic right of every Tibetan national is compromised. I am asking myself “Is it to create a personal legacy for those at the top?” Otherwise why away Tibet.
CTA should seriously stop using old tactics of mixing religion and polictics. The new generation will not believe in those crap. Samdhong Rinpoche even said these people wanting complete freedom are even worse than Shugden worshipers.
These people like Penpa Tsering and Samdhon lama should seriously be replaced.
I think everyone is sick of their tactics of mixing religion and politics.
With growing evidence of pridefulness and potentially unhygienic routine of our Speaker in his recent MWA tour( same shirt the whole tour),I’m starting to wonder whether there will come a time when the lie of a nostalgic whimsy of celebrating ‘democracy day’ will ever come into fruition.
As preposterous as it sounds today(if the MWA people get their way) that there might one day be no Syikong or Speaker or a Parliament, replaced by the National Peoples Congress and Tibetans holding nominal positions in the ‘motherland’.( I do see a number of people from the present crop of Chitues led by Norbu Tsering doing very well for themselves).
It’s worth noting that there was a time when kings and emperors couldn’t conceive of a society in which knights and gladiators didn’t duel to the death strictly for the amusement of others,we have come a long way from those times and it’s also worth noting that over time,progressive societies encouraged different opinions,our Tibetan version of free speech & democracy appears to be just lip service born on the feet of political correctness.
Or maybe debates in our Parliament in the 24th century will be played with lightsabers, death rays and atomic vaporizers. Tough to say.
I’ve gone ‘jumbled’ in my note for it’s Sunday today.
Jamyang Norbu la and his followers think Democracy must allow unlimited freedom of expression. You guys may be right but the question is where does such democracy exist? Usually when people talk about democracy they look the US as an example. Now do you guys seriously think in US people can express their views with no limit? People are scared to talk about race especially black and white, people are scared to talk about gays, people are scared to talk about religion and so on. How many people got into trouble or lost their job because their lip slipped into one of these subjects. Most recent example is Duck Dynasty for his anti gay comments. If you don’t believe me try to talk about these subjects openly with your earnest view and see if you can survive.
There are sensitive subjects in every society and people must show respect. Recently my mother was feeling some pain over her shoulder and she thinks that demon or spirit was harming her. Do I believe this? no, but out of respect for her feeling I did not mention anything against her believe. Disrespectful comments against Dalai Lama and CTA and Tibetan Buddhism are supper sensitive issue in Tibetan society and you guys must show some respect.
If you guys have a genius ideas to resolve Tibetan issue, there are no objections. On the contrary, people will listen and make their judgement. You guys don’t have to look down on CTA and its leaders. Rangzen is a goal not a solution. I can have a goal of making million dollar a year but no strategic plan to make it. This is called vision with no strategy. You guys may argue with me buying lottery everyday is a strategy.
whiteiscolour
unlike you,I believe that it is best to be honest with your mother,allowing her to believe in things that you consider not true is simply wrong.
as for your other comment “Disrespectful comments against Dalai Lama and CTA and Tibetan Buddhism are supper sensitive issue in Tibetan society and you guys must show some respect.”
my thoughts on your comment would be –your version of democracy is far different than mine,I do agree that civility is essential in a debate or dialogue but when elected officials of CTA like Penpa Tsering are practically calling for the beating of Jamyang la or the incompetent Chitue member Norbu Tsering calling for the Rangzen people to be ‘dealt with’ like a sore tooth….what say you?
I believe in Rangzen because my country has been occupied,I believe in Rangzen because my people in Tibet can live their lives with dignity…and I believe in Rangzen to protect it’s environment….for this I will spend my money and my time and for this noble cause I am willing to be labelled all kinds of names and for this belief of mine if His Holiness is insulted….so be it.
whiteiscolor,
It is good that you are more sensitised after come to USA and exposed to different ideas. But i think you are little confused. so called political correctness is what you refering to basically when you talk about not offending the minoriites etc. these are ideas and policies that are aimed at helping the disadvantaged groups who have suffered long from discrimination. so that is good thing.
now politics is totally different. its fair game for criticsm. in fact if people dont criticise then it will be the downfall of democracy.even religion is fair game if its at the root of some policymaking. of course one’s faith and relgion is private and to be respected but when large monasteries with a large and aggresive vote bank is involved in tilting policies then it is not just religon – it becomes part of politics. so this is my feeble attempt to differentiate and hope its little bit clear.
Whiteiscolor: you must have gone to varanasi or stuidied in a monastery because ur logic is very typical of that particular group, making excuses and drawing absolutes from generalities. What i mean to say, dear sir, is that your logic is antiquated and improperly used. People in the west might get in trouble for saying politically incorrect things but it is not sgainst the law and there is a general atmosphere of discussion and debate. Usually the minorities get away with renarks and comments that the dominant group might not get away with. I dont agree with that but that is trying to protect the disadvantaged group. Here you have the majority bullying the minority and singling out individuals to be blacklisted and prepared to be beaten up for hurting the feelings of His Holiness. His holiness is actually flaming it up even more by continuously repeating the same thing everywhere he goes. It is very dissappointing to see that. Penpa Tseri g, that new kudrak guy is doung the same thing during his travels. It is not called being insensitive, it is called bullying by those in power against a small minority. Please understand the difference, kushokla.
Ahhh, the good ole Respect defense, the last line of defense by those who can not defend their values. Like waving a white flag of surrender, and at the same time, sweeping everything under the carpet, bravely going on as if he had won the day.
Yet, what values? Here there are contradictions and paradoxes, because, you see, these are not his values which he defends with evangelistic zeal, but the values of another time, which he himself is out of step with, which he himself does not live by, or in….
He defends the values of his parents and our ancestors, certainly an ennobling motive, but at what cost?
Should the child, be forever condemned to live in a world of shadows and spooks which inhabit the world of our parents and ancestors? Is that fair, or realistic, or wise?
We should take pride in the fact that, even within our small exile community, we have two rhodes scholarship recipients, which just goes to show how smart Tibetans can become, how far they can achieve, at least academically.
These are our future leaders, and it seems there are more of them on the way, a small positive in a depressing landscape. We should nurture such as them, allow them to question everything without fear or censure, then, you have my respect.
what dreams may come/Tsering dolkar
Detestation is what I oppose not disagreement or questioning. Biggest portion of Buddha’s teaching is consisting of questions and answers and our culture is based on Buddhist teaching not based on my way or high way attitude. Expression of disagreement must come from feeling of caring and loyalty not from detestation.
Tsering dolkar, you concluded your post calling me kushokla. Am I supposed to feel insulted? If your intention is looking down on Kushoks, you do not deserve to make any comments about Tibetan issue. If you think you are superior to kushoklas than you are deadly wrong. As far as study of logic is concerned, we Tibetans could be ahead of much of the societies in this world. We must thank this for Koshoklas. Buddhists are minority in US that does not mean you are safe to say things against Christian faith.
What dreams may come said “Should the child, be forever condemned to live in a world of shadows and spooks which inhabit the world of our parents and ancestors? Is that fair, or realistic, or wise?” Not so fast. What you think you know may not be the truth. What it seems so promising may not be real. Aristotle said “The more you know, the more you know you don’t know.”
Been away for a while to Shichak where internet access=ZERO.
@287 Tsering Topgyal, every sentence = what I feel.
Or may be, I should not say that!
Norbu Tsering is rumoured to be the next Representative of Tibet House in Tokyo and I live in Tokyo. Boy, I am intimidated! 🙂
Norbu Tsering lost his chance thanks to Canadian Tibetan mass protest letters against his candidature. Some one called Lungtok is getting the post.
I just learnt that it is not only Chitue Karma Choephel who is/was a alcoholic. It has just surfaced that currently Chitue chair Penpa Tsering is equally know for his drinking habits. During is latest trip to American, he has reported missed two flight from New York to India. Rumors were afloat a year go that KC has to endure the recent purging (thabzing) in the partliament. May be next time, it will be PT. The man, I was told, is third rate class man. What can we expect from such low people, except hiding behind the cloak of Samdhong and gloating the Middle Path to appease His Holiness.
By the way, what is happening to RFA Tibetan Service. While all sees quiet and smooth under the a new leadership, Kalden Lodoe was sported in Bylakuppe during His Holiness’ teachings. American government is still under sequestration, and we know RFA, and VOA are affected. Ask their stingers whose work load has been shed half off. Travel is minimal. But it is known that the his Chinese boss Libby has sent him to India for what I don’t know. His Holiness is sated to visit sometime in March. It will be interesting to see if Libby has something secret deal for RFA. As I was writing this, I heard Kalden Lodoe got a promotion. RFA listeners should be able to see the changes to its programing since the ouster of the previous director. While it is clear that His Holinnes has chosen Libby over Ngabo Jigme, and Kalden Lodoe is regarded Gaden Phodrang’s unofficial man at RFA, it is also true that the American administration and concerned agencies including the State Department and BBB are fully aware of what is cooking screwing up at RFA. one sincerely hopes that justice will ultimately prevail.
Finaly, it seems Ngabo Jigme is back at the State Department. Good luck.
The above post reminded of what I heard about chairman Pempa Tsering address to the Tibetan community in Washington DC last November. While stressing the importance of the Middle Way, he mulled about the possibility of several, as opposed to one, autonomous regions of Tibet which is totally against the letter and spirit of the Dalai Lama’ snow infamous appeasement policy. Although it called his personal views, he was addressing the gathering as the chairperson of the Tibetan parliament. This poses the question: Is CTA distancing itself from the Dalai Lama? If it is true, it is worth talking about. After all, we need some practical ideas if we were to have any success with the Chinese. If the whole pie is beyond reach, fight for as many slices as possible instead of giving up any slice or nothing.
ཁྱེད་རང་གིས་ག་རེ་བྲིས་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པ་ཡིནནའི་སྔོན་ལ་དགོངས་པ་ཡག་པོ་ཞེས་རོགས་གནང། སྤྱི་ནང་གཞི་མེད་པའི་དགོས་མེད་ཀྱི་གནས་ཚུལ་མང་པོ་ཞིག་ཁྱེད་རང་གི་རྩོམ་ཡིག་གིས་བཟོས་ཡོང་གི་འདུག། བྱས་ཙང་བསམ་བློ་སྔོན་ལ་བཏང་ན་མཁས་པ་རེད་། ངའི་རེ་བ་ལ་ཁྱེད་ཀྱིས་ངས་བཤད་པའི་སྐད་ཆ་དེ་མགོ་ཚོད་པ་ཤོག།