PHUNTSOK WANGYAL & HIS ADMIRATION SOCIETY-IN-EXILE
The Buddha and Christ both spoke of the virtue of turning the other cheek when wronged, but no one has suggested, to date, that if violently sodomized it would be the correct thing (excuse me) to turn the other cheek, and furthermore, shower the sodomizer with affection and praise.
So why the outpouring of grief from the CTA and other exiles for the death of Baba Phuntsok Wangyal? No matter how “charming” a person, a “good Communist”, or a friend of the Dalai Lama, Tibetans must remember that Wangyal was the principal front-line guide to the Chinese army when it invaded Tibet. He was not just a “guide” in the neutral or passive sense of the word but someone deeply involved in the planning and organization of the invasion force, as his own autobiography testifies. In fact he had the crucial task of organizing the transportation by mule and yak of PLA supplies through Kham, without which there would have been no invasion. The motor road had not yet been built.
I don’t want to write anything more about this self-important, self-deluded, and simpleminded wretch whose actions contributed in full measure to the destruction of our civilization and the death of well over a million of our people. It is just too depressing. Anyway veteran Indian journalist and friend of Tibet, Vijay Kranti, has come out with an outstanding “alternate tribute” in Phayul.com to counter the “slave mind-set” of Dharamshala on this issue. It is must reading.
I will just offer an excerpt from a (four part) essay on the modernization of Tibetan language that I wrote eight years ago, which I think might provide a psycho-political analysis (of sorts) for Phuntsok Wangyal’s treason, and the risible pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-revolutionary apologia offered by his present day admirers.
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“The recently published biography of Phuntsok Wangyal, Tibetan Revolutionary, written (principally) by Melvyn Goldstein is essentially a leftist hagiographical tract, albeit of a low-key kind. No serious attempt is made at dissecting Phuntsok Wangyal’s character or analysing his motives for betraying his country and people. In fact there is a chummy feel throughout the book with Goldstein constantly referring to Phuntsok Wangyal as “Phunwang”, the pet name used by his family and friends. The reader is presented with a great revolutionary, nationalist, poet, scientist, friend of the Dalai Lama (who deems him a “sincere and dedicated Marxist”) and ultimately a martyr figure who, through the machinations of false Marxists, suffers eighteen years of terrible imprisonment — essentially for the redemption of the Tibetan people. This is not a book of great subtlety. At the conclusion of a fairly generous review in the New York Review of Books, Jonathan Mirsky points out that Goldstein and his co-writers, … “fail to see the irony in Phunwang’s faithful Leninist support for Chinese authority over Tibet, just when Marxism and Leninism have become increasingly obsolescent in China…” and “… what neither Phunwang nor the authors are willing to say in so many words is that Chinese chauvinism backed by violence, dominates Tibet.”
“An examination of Phuntsok Wangyal’s life and mindset is rewarding in understanding how in the name of “progress” and “reform” someone could bring himself to so casually inflict such tremendous damage, not just on a language but on an entire culture and society as well. Wangyal is the kind of model cadre, who having studied and embraced Communist ideology feels absolutely confident to pronounce (and act) on matters he has little knowledge about.
“A bizarre but revealing example of this characteristic is provided by Phuntsok Wangyal’s magnum opus, New Investigations into Celestial Bodies — Liquid Water Does Exist on the Moon. (Foreign Language Press Beijing, 2002, available in the USA, free of charge, at the International Campaign for Tibet). Wangyal wrote it after his release from prison, and it is fairly substantial at about 500 pages of closely-spaced small print. He claims it is a scientific treatise on cosmology, and though there are references to Copernicus, NASA, and some contemporary Western scientists, the intellectual “big guns” brought into play to “prove” that the moon holds deposits of liquid water are Hegel, Marx and Engels — or more properly their “dialectical methods”. The emphasis on “liquid” in the title is interestingly emblematic. It might be easier to prove that there are deposits of frozen water on the moon, but such reservations or compromises are unnecessary. Dialectics of this kind has the power to prove anything you want it to.
“In conversations and interviews Phuntsok Wangyal consistently maintains that Marxist dialectics is the “mother of all sciences” and “the ultimate science of all sciences”. No matter how bizarre such thinking may seem to us now, it is in the grand tradition of Marxist scientific absolutism employed by Trofim Denisovich Lysenko, a semi-literate peasant from Azerbaijan and Stalin’s master agricultural expert. Lysenko was the author of “The Great Stalin Plain for the Transformation of Nature”, which in effect produced Russia’s “Great Famine”. In China, Mao’s “Red specialists” and “barefoot scientists” led by China’s own chief Lysenkoist, Luo Tianyu, ordered peasants to plough deep (sometimes down to ten feet), and to plants seed closely like “the scales of a dragon”, besides many other lunacies, causing history’s greatest famine and the death of 30 to 60 million people.
“Phuntsok Wangyal’s cosmological treatise is filled with strange, undecipherable charts and tables, like illustrations in a mediaeval alchemical tract, which seems to be more revealing of certain psychological truths about the author than scientific information about his theories. And one could perhaps make the case that there is need for some sort of psychiatric analysis and exposure of this man. Even after the official persecution and suicide of his wife, his own torture and imprisonment for eighteen years, Phuntsok Wangyal’s devotion to Marx, Mao and Chou Enlai remains unshaken. This is how he affirms his faith. “No matter what happened, I had clung stubbornly to the belief that someday that details of my case would reach people at the highest levels. I knew Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai personally, and I believed that Wang Feng and others had lied to them about what I had done and what was happening to me. I hoped against hope that one day Mao and Zhou would realize that I was innocent and order my release.”
I must admit that I was only able to come to some sort of understanding of Wangyal’s extraordinary dedication to Mao and Maoism, by recalling an earlier reading of a comparable account in political fiction. Arthur Koestler’s masterpiece, Darkness at Noon, is based almost directly on Stalin’s show trials of the 1930s, and describes the imprisonment, trial and execution of the old Bolshevik, V.S. Rubashov. The striking thing about the two reminiscences, despite the fact that one is fictional the other real life, is how Rubashov and Wangyal’s loyalty to the party and leadership remain unshaken in spite of the fact that both are old party-men who have been cruelly betrayed by their leader, party and faith. In Rubashov’s case he even ultimately confesses to crimes which he is well aware he has not committed. Wangyal does not confess but performs a more convenient sort of self-deception by blaming his incarceration on petty functionaries and not the Great Helmsman himself, whom “he idolized”, as the Dalai Lama mentions, approvingly, in Freedom in Exile. George Orwell, reviewing Koestler’s novel, writes that he was convinced that Rubashov and those like him “had been rotted by the revolution which they served” and had become morally and mentally bankrupt by the “habit of loyalty to the party”.
“Koestler also implies in his novel that Rubashov in power would be no better than those persecuting him now — and I think one could safely extend the observation to Wangyal. Milan Kundera, writing of his childhood, observed “When I was a boy I used to idealize the people who returned from political imprisonment. Then I discovered that most of the victims were former oppressors. The dialectics of the executioners and his victim are very complicated.” Wangyal’s fanatical self-righteousness remains intact after eighteen years of torture and solitary confinement. It is untouched by any regret, or clouded by the least of doubts that by guiding a hostile foreign invasion force into his own country he bears considerable responsibility for the genocidal devastation of Tibet and its culture, and the ongoing oppression and exploitation of his people.
“Getting back to the issue of language “reforms”, it might be noted that from the conservative Lhasa-centric point of view, Phuntsok Wangyal, Jampel Gyatso, Sherap Gyatso, and others were essentially provincial intellectuals, with big chips (social, economic, linguistic) on their shoulders against the ruling Lhasa elite. And in spite of the lofty claims of “reform and progress” by these Tibetan Communists, there clearly was a substantial element of payback in their agendas. The only incongruity being that since Batang and especially Amdo had for long been under Chinese administration, whatever injustice or suffering our revolutionaries and their kith and kin might have experienced earlier in their lives were almost certainly inflicted on them by Chinese regimes and definitely not by the Lhasa government.
“One might also sense in Wangyal’s academic posturing, a faint echo of the lifelong resentment that Mao, the country scholar, had of established Chinese writers and intellectuals in Beijing and Shanghai. It is a passing reflection, but the mantle of the provincial academic, the sophomore poet or the failed intellectual, is one that Maoists, especially Maoist leaders, seem to assume uncomfortably well, from Pol Pot in Cambodia and Abemal Guzman in Peru, to Comrade Prachandra in Nepal.”
Newspeak & New Tibet: Part IV: The Myth of China’s Modernization of Tibet and the Tibetan Language, July 2005
Phuntsok Wangyal is traitor worst than Ngabo, Tashi Tsering.
He is a traitor and if anyone one of you think otherwise, then you are a traitor in waiting. Any country that gave you citizenship should take it back because you could potentially the host country too if you think traitors are patriots.
to his holiness the dalai lama, the late phunwang is/was a national hero (pawo). ngabo went mum while phunwang last wish was the dalai lama’s return home. who is/was a bigger traitor?
Only because the Dalai Lama said so doesen’t make Phunwang a hero. He’s not a hero and, I have respect for him butm, I will never consider him as a national hero.
Return home as a strategic way to control the Tibetan people, not as a rular of Tibet as he had every right to be…
They are both Traitors. If we agree on tat,,,then we can argue who is bigger or smaller…it is correct assessment.
How did such a blot on humanity become a friend of the Dalai Lama?
“In fact he had the crucial task of organizing the transportation by mule and yak of PLA supplies through Kham, without which there would have been no invasion”. Jamyang norbula, being an ardent reader of your writings and perspectives on Tibet related issues, i was quite shocked by the above excerpt. do you seriously believe that the Chinese invasion wouldn’t have happened without Phuntsok wangyal’s “crucial task of organizing…” i mean this must be the most ridiculous thing that i have ever heard. basically, you are implying that the PLA numbering in the tens of thousands, with the rest of the china already conquered, and determined to annex Tibet, would have just stopped and returned back, had it not been for the “transportation by mule and yak” organized by Phuntsok wangyal. Jamyangla, come on now, i know you are way better than this..
In Jamyang Norbu’s articles, I can see that he would have become another “Phuntsog Wangyal” or “Ngapoe Nagwang Jigme” if you were born bit earlier!
So, there is no charming to read Jamyang Norbu’s article criticising the two traitors. It is very clear that Jamyang Norbu is simply jealous of the two traitors’ fame and name cozied by Beijing’s honey-money things.
Could we not just let the past stay there rest in peace and assess current ongoings.
Who are associated with MFker Chinese currently?These are TRAITOR in progress one should not neglect.
The building ofrecognition,identity and saving the precious culture by HHDL should be successively shouldered by us all breathing Tibetan.
Karma; read the sentence carefully. He is talking about the supply line without which the invasion of Tibet would not be possible. Our traitor helped in that effort but that doesnt mean without him, they couldn’t done it. PLA would have done it regardless of his help..maybe a little slower but they would accomplished it. The most important part is that he was involved in that effort and thereby he cannot be excused as an irrelevant figure.
Btw: is baba a traitor to you, aside from the misreading above?
JAMYANG thank you for this very important posting. I agree that Vijay Kranti, long a faithful friend of Tibet and of democracy and freedom for the people of Tibet, has written a brilliant must-read essay on this matter.
It is very sad to know that u (tsedol)subjectively said that phunwang was a traitor, how has he become a traitor? Don’t blindly follow jamyang Norbu, for him everyone is traitor other than him. Truly speaking, it is easy to criticize others and pointout others’ mistakes, if u have done nothing, done nothing means you have no mistake. His suffering in prison for such a long years for the sake of these Tibetan people suffered under old system was not worthwhile to u? Touch your conscience and speak out ur true words.
Every little contribution counts. So he may have realised his wrongdoing , but the fact is damage was already done. Phunwang must be trying to earn sympathy from us, so called sympathetic nationals. But we should be his reminder that we are living in 21st century where another act of sympathetic foolishness can lengthen our freedom issues to a longer extent. No room for traitors…
Jamyang Norbu la, once again you have hit the bull’s eye!
Even though I did not have adequate information about life and work of Baba Phuntsok Wangyal la ( Actually there wasn’t barring scanty mention of him in’ My Land My People’ there was any major material available on him until recent times), this one single fact was more than sufficient reason and logic for me to regard him as worst traitor and enemy of Tibetan nation next only Mao and his army. This remained my opinion about him in the past. However, during last few years, one after another several new news and facts emerged from Tibet which were further officially glorified and amplified in the exile community thereby exonerating him of the blot of being a traitor and baptizing him as a great patriot overnight utterly forgetting and ignoring what he did to our nation by physically leading our enemy right up to our doorstep and actively collaborating with our enemy in plotting, scouting, attacking, invading, plundering, massacring, occupying and colonizing our sovereign independent Tibetan nation!
That at the fag end of his life, he had showed some measure of mental alertness and wisdom by favoring a more sensible approach and policy from his Beijing bosses regarding the issue of Tibet plus his symptomatic display of reverence to His Holiness the Dalai Lama – all this and whatever change of mind he might have underwent during his later years by allowing ghost of Tibetan-spirit inside to revive and effect a shift in his loyalty towards Tibetan nationalism – did not and do not wash away the cardinal treason he had committed in early fifties, first embracing communism when entire nation swore against it as the enemy of faith and then enticing, encouraging and plotting with enemy in the final invasion, occupation and destruction of Tibetan national identity with only goal to convert Tibet into China and Tibetans into communist Chinese, and that too in full consciousness and on his own volition and without any iota of compulsion or force from any quarter.
The term treason and traitor will have to be completely removed from English Dictionaries and English vocabulary, if these two did and do not succinctly apply and fit perfectly what he did and what he was then.
If only a portion of deed is good enough to build an image of a personality, as today, our exile society is wont of doing in his case, by honoring and declaring him to be a nationalist and national hero based on facts and information supplied by himself in his autobiography and media channel, than they are simply negating the very existence and relevance of upper part of his life and all those treacherous plotting and betrayal, deception and treason as something un-related and untouched by his life! One cannot find even a poorest logic and filthiest sense rationality to enthuse credibility and wisdom in such a vicious stand and concept!
The truth is that after years of living a life grandiose by umpteen illusions and myriads we have, in fact, blurred our mental vision to be extreme point to visualizing things in accordance with one’s own mental projection and preconceived notions and rather than seeing things as it!
Shocking News: Interestingly, on 31st March 2014, the world greeted with shock and horror the news about Pakistan’s military ruler and former President General Pervez Musharraf who was indicted on five counts of TREASON by a special court in Islamabad . He now faces death penalty if convicted of the charges of subverting Pakistan’s Constitution in 2007, when he imposed emergency rule and removed high ranking justice officials in order protect his power. He had fought two wars for his nation and served 44 years in Pakistan’s army including nine years as Army Chief.
As for me, though I would earnestly listen to whatever good work Phunwang La said he had done for Tibet and also I would have a measure of goodwill towards that particular phase of his matured thinking, yet, in no way, I would allow this change and development to override and overshadow the mountainous treason and treachery he had committed against our nation and people in early part of his part when Tibet was at her weakest and the most vulnerable state!
Let his own deed both positive and negative define history of his life and let history find its own voice from truths and legacy bequeathed by hard events that defined it.
It is time we restrain from manipulating with history by trying to give personal interpretation and credence to a person’s blunders committed in history motivated by sheer personal reasons and prejudices. Who are we to re-write past history? Let history speaks for itself; that would be the most right thing to do to do justice to the history and our nation which embody it for posterity! There would be no greater tribute paid to our history than keeping truth uncluttered, clear and simple in its naked truth!
JN-la,
Thanks for a great write up. Irrespective of what HHDL says, ( for momentary political gains and all ), Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal was nothing but a traitor.
I read Bapa Phunstok Wangyal’s book and scanned his crazy musing of galaxy book too. I know, I feel bad to say something negative about a guy, who is dead, but I have said all long that he was one of the traitors.
To legions of students I taught, I have said Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal is/was nothing about Tibetan version of Mir Jafar. That way they get a better understanding of who is/was Bapa Phunstok as well as who Mir Jaffar was.
To the student of Indian freedom struggle, Mir Jafar is a must know person.
To those who don’t know. Here is a description from Wikipedia:
Mir Muhammed Jafar Ali Khan Bahadur, commonly known as Mir Jafar, second son of Sayyid Ahmad Najafi, (1691–February 5, 1765) was the Nawab of Bengal (Bengal, Bihar and Orissa). He was the first Nawab of the Najafi dynasty after deceiving Nawab Siraj-Ud-Daulah. His rule is widely considered the start of British rule in India and was a key step in eventual British domination of the country.
His lust to become Nawab of Bengal led him to make a secret pact with Robert Clive and surrender to slaughter the Army of Bengal in the Battle of Plassey, withholding his division from the fighting. Thus the British won the battle and established their rule in India. For this act the word “Mir Jafar” is now synonymous with “traitor” and he has been infamously called Gaddar-e-Abrar (“Betrayer of the true Faith”) in Hindi and Urdu.
Read Tsering Shakya’s book and you will amazed to find that there were lots of Mir Jaffars. Shakya’s book describe Tibetan aristocrats and businessmen, planning not to import guns and weapons to fight China, but were trying to make quick profit by importing feeds from India for the horses of Chinese soldiers etc., when Chinese troops started amassing in Lhasa.
I believe modern education is the best way to change our society. If HHDL thought through this, He should not have praised some one like Bapa Phunwang, irrespective of Phuwang’s attempt at redemption in the end. Phuwang’s attempt at redemption was only after he lost all the tapering of his post.
It means nothing. Even Victor Vyunochovich of Ukraine is now saying that he regrets inviting Russia. It means nothing.
If the man was guilty, then he was a traitor, we tibetans are so gullible, i think the cta is praising him just win the heart of the chinese since we are clearly sympathising with a communist who was the reason for the death of our and hisown people, him having served a few years in jail wont gain my sympathy, whether his intentions were righht or wrong, in the end we suffered the most,my dear tibetans if your grandfather, mother or anyone of your older generations were killed by the chiness or suffered in their hands, you will have him to blam one way or another. Please realise this and think wisely before shedding a tear for a traitor, a murderer. As a buddhist i cannot help but feel sorry for a humans death.
Such nice article and thank for it. Phong wang is not national hore, he is Tibetan national enemy, against Tibetan people and convince Lalai Lama be communist. He said Nyapo and many Tibetans how good communist for developing and helping Tibet when first Red Chinese invaded Tibet. He is really traitor even though he didn’t know how bad invasion and communist.
I think he has some mentail sick after long time in the jail, other he shouldn’t believe Mao and communist after getting all the punishment as his confirmation of innocent. If he is not mental stat is ok, then he is not innocent and Mao has reason to do send him to jail.
No doubt Bapa Phuntsog Wangyal is a Traitor. To call him a patriot is an insult to the hundreds of thousands of our Tibetan brothers and sisters who died as a result of the Chinese invasion which this piece of shit brought.
Let there be no confusion that when a Tibetan brother or a sister self-immolates or is thrown in jail and tortured, when you find that you can’t go to your own Phayul without fear of being arrested or killed, when you wander around in exile frustrated and without any future, when you feel helpless in face of the relentless assault on your land and your people, that Bapa Phuntsog Wangyal and traitors like him are responsible for it.
Just because some one was in PRC prison doesn’t mean he was put there because he fought for Tibet. It is due to power struggle among the leaders that landed one faction or the other in jail. For example Mao’s wife and a bunch of other former party leaders were put in jail. It doesn’t mean they were there for Tibet or the Koumintang.
Thank you Jamyang la for a brilliant analysis of the “PHUNWANG” episode. Also for adding reference and link to my writeup on the same subject in PHAYUL.COM
Friends of Tibet like me are bewildered by the mindset of a dominant section of Dharamsala elite. Earlier they paid undue tributes to Tibet’s most celebrated traitor late Ngapo Ngawang Jigme. Now some of the top political and diplomatic exile leaders are falling over each other to pay a similar tribute to yet another shameless traitor of their motherland. I hope they are not in a desperate competition for winning some petty browny points from the colonial masters of Phunwang and Tibet. I am sure that they could have achieved this in many alternate ways other than by insulting their own motherland and Tibetan people through this unfortunate tribute.
I am forwarding an interesting reaction from a Tibetan gentleman Mr. Paljor Thondup of Mexico to my writeup.It might interest your readers:
“Paljor Thondup paljorthondup@aol.com
Apr 3 (1 day ago)
to me
Dear Kranti,
Your defamation of character of Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal is unacceptable but inviting lawsuit and I take your statement about Phunwang being traitor as insult to injury losing my very close friend. Shame on you claiming to be a friend of Tibet and Tibetologist, you attack highest officials in Dharamsala including Dalai Lama who has always referred Phunwang as a trusted friend. Who do you work the Chinese or Shoden Devil worshipers. If you keep firing from your loose cannon irresponsibly, I will take you down personally. I have 5000 members from my own district in Kham who will be willing to pay a nice visit to you and They all are in India and some live close to your residence. Before this happen, I want you to publicly apologize. My name Paljor Thondup, President of Project Tibet, Founder of Friends of Tibet New Mexico and The founding member of the 25 United Districts of Nangchen. Do me favor to save this email because we both will need it for the actions and consequences. Sincerely, Paljor Thondup”
Thank you once again
Vijay Kranti
HHDL has said he considers himself a communist. He expressed grief over the death of Baba phunstok. When asked, he said, “no comment” regarding the self-immolations of our compatriots in tibet. How much more of this must we take before we realise HHDL is not speaking for us anymore? He has given up on Tibet. He just wants to be a world religious leader like the pope that doesn’t want to be nationalist. We need a nationalistic hero, not a world preacher.
Traitor is praised as patriot while ashamed to honour the patriots (self immolators.
People like the guy up there who wrote that threat letter to Vijay Kranti are blot on our society. That is the real case of a neanderthal. When they run out argument they either use the “some higher power that we humans cannot fathom” or downright threat like that. It would not fly. If he got asylum it should be revoked since he is comfortable with communist China and its brown nosers.
Thank you vijay kranti for your article. You have my back.
Disgrace to read the letter send it by a guy name Paljor dhondup. Said he is a leader, Is that what leadership shows, threatening other people when one does not agree their views.
It is just sad that residing in US and still do not understand the freedom of speech and information. Grow up guy! At least the environment should help you.
Speaking of baba phuntsok wangyal, In dhasa, since HHDL spoke nice things about him, there is no door opening for his criticism.I argued with one of the high official of CTA about Phunwang and he quoted HHDL, so his reason was so blindfaith. I have no choice, but to back it since all the officials attacked me. This is a sad situation here in Dhasa, can not speak up. Have to be on the same page. That is middle way approach is the best policy and follow what HHDL says, no matter whether it is right or wrong.
Thank you Jamyang Norbu la and Vijay Kranti la for your wonderful and timely pieces on this traitor. True and honest analysis are rare these days from the people that pride itself on being true and gentle and kind and all that yarn. Look at that stupid arrogant letter addressed to Mr.Vijay, as if threat of violence is going to hide the truth and show of silly tribal loyalty is somehow going to avenge some imaginary lies. There is no loyalty to Tibet and its people but he is ready to hurt/kill a poor journalist for a man that led Chinese inside Tibet, who helped kill other fellow Tibetans patriots and occupy his own country.
Do we really deserve a country when we cannot distinguish between a traitor or a patriot? When even ‘intellectuals’ suckle on the tits of cowardice (overflowing with self-importance and arrogance) and stay silent, quietly letting others take it in the butt, while quoting glorious words of brave men and women, do we deserve to be labelled a person of integrity? If our culture is now reduced to painting black on white and churning out lies, how do we sing the same song that was wrought of the pristine mountains and pure water and how do we wear the same clothes that our ancestors dorned with the impeccable purity of thought and speech? Culture is just not food you eat, the clothes you wear, or the songs you sing; these are just the by product of who we are essentially at the core of the being: free unyielding mountain spirits who treasure freedom, rugged honesty, and unparalleled passion for life, liberty, and truth. If the very foundation is now being corroded at the core, then all the songs, dance, history,and language will lose its very essence and we are just mere pretenders; and mere husks, shadow puppets of a distant past; something that belongs in a museum or a Karoake bar. What is the point then?
Maybe the countries that give us refugee status and give us citizenship might want to review their Tibetan files because if we do not think Baba Phunstok Wangyal is a traitor, then we might pose a threat to their security too. I think they can tell the difference between a traitor and a patriot. That is probably why they still have a country and we don’t.
And don’t bring His Holiness into this. He is a Bodhisatva and he sees everybody through his compassionate eyes. Some of us should stop pretending we are bodhisatvas too. We are mere mortals who have to live in this world and abide by the rules of engagement as it is present.
Below is some background that came in a recent blog news about this thug named Paljor Thondup, who threatens to kill Mr Vijay Kranti. I saw couple of these folks on internet blatantly praising the death of the traitor as if a loss of patriot. Most of them have same tribal affiliation, which suggest the Tibetan Tribal mentalism is still very much intact. These people are threat to the very existence of Tibet as a nation in future and unity in exile.
“The founder of the Tibetan community was a man named Paljor Thondup. Thondup had escaped the Chinese invasion of Tibet as a kid, crossing the Himalayas with his family in an epic, multiyear journey by yak and horseback. Thondup made it to Nepal and from there to India, where he enrolled in a school in the southeastern city of Pondicherry with other Tibetan refugees.” (From http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/02/dalai_lama_at_a_santa_fe_ski_resort_tells_waitress_the_meaning_of_life.html)
What a shameless bully that Paljor Thondup is, threatening Vijay Kranti. Looks like he has lived too long in Narcoland.
Thanks vijay for a wonderful piece. The letter he wrote to you cross the boundary of legality. Just forward the letter to the local branch of new mexico law enforcement. They will be interested this threat against journalist in a free country.
Thank you Jamyang Norbu la. Thank you traitor Baba la. Thank you the new mcleod ganj kudaks. Thank you mother China. Most of all, thank you bonehead “Paljor Thondup la.
Paljor Dhondup la, you need to learn how to welcome critics and this is one of best leadership qualities you must possess after you being claiming your self as a leader of blah blah. Even though i dont agree with Vijay Kranti to some extend but we have to respect his view and ideas and get to a consensus by harmoniously debating. Paljor la you must have learnt this type of gondanism (Dacoity)from typical Uttar Pradesh Politician which is totally unwelcome in our harmonious Tibetan Society. So Paljor la stop behaving like an idiots though you seems to be bit educated.
Mr kranti, i am one like Mr Paljor la who viewed Bhawang as not traitor at all instead i regard him as genuine Communist cadre gearing to abolish the Tibetan Aristocracy one which Jamyang Norbu la’s family hold. Mr Kranti, you must be knowing about KHAP Panchayat in Harayana and its neighboring states and do you want this to exist in todays India and i hope you will say NO, so in similar manner Bhawang want to abolish Khap kind of panchayat system from then Tibet and this is just a one example.
Though mr kranti has different view on this but i will always respect for him as a true supporter of Tibet and your name will be in our guest list for Tibet Republic day in year 2020. Thank you.
Acknowledging traitorous Bapa Phunstok Wangyal as patriot is height of hypocrisy and slavish mental kowtow to brutal Chinese regime.
http://www.savetibet.org/phuntsog-wangyal-goranangpa-a-formidable-figure-in-modern-tibetan-history/
International campaign for Tibet on Phunwang traitor.
He was very devoted to His Holiness the Dalai Lama who regarded him as a personal friend. In a condolence message, the Dalai Lama said, “He was a true Communist, genuinely motivated to fulfill the interests of the Tibetan people. In his death we have lost a trusted friend.” “Through his own example Phunwang showed that you could be a true Communist while at the same time proud of your Tibetan heritage,” the Dalai Lama added.
International Campaign for Tibet Board’s Executive Chairman, Kasur Lodi Gyari, whose father was a personal friend of Phunwang and who himself has known him, said, “Phunwang is no more with us, but his thought and words will continue to inspire and guide us. Even at this late stage there is still time for the Chinese leadership to pay serious attention to what he has sought to convey over many decades. Phunwang was a genuine Marxist but at the same time he has always been proud of being a Tibetan. In my view he is one of the greatest thinkers of our time, not only on the Tibet-China issue, but on other serious matters too. He has a deep integrity and has never been afraid to suffer for his beliefs.”
In a statement, Sikyong Dr. Lobsang Sangay said, “The Central Tibetan Administration in Dharamshala extends its profound condolences to his family. We hope the Chinese leadership will take heed of the veteran Communist leader’s wisdom and far-sighted vision to resolve the issue of Tibet.”
I hope they are sending such heart warming condolences to the Tibetans who are burning themselves for freedom as well.
Gyari must be out of his stupid mind to think this idiot is the greatest thinker of our time. With people like gyari leading the negotiations, you can now understand why it never bore fruit…he was too busy on his knees ..
Dalai lama’s terrorist paljor thupten will show us all how peaceful and friiendly Tibetans really are to the world. Good job dumbass.
This is how people who believe in Rangzen and DEMOCRACY (the real thing) respond to death threats and mob violence:
TIBET SUPPORTER VIJAY KRANTI’S RESPONSE TO Mr. PALJOR THONDUP IN PHAYUL.COM
Dear Mr. Pajor Thondup,
As my immediate reaction to your mail I want to point out following points for your reference:
On the onset I must say that I respect your right to hold and freely express your opinion, even if I find it difficult to agree with some of your points. I’ve read your opinion with due respect and seriousness. I am impressed with your frankness in expressing your feelings. Also, I would like to humbly inform you that I am a sincere friend of Tibet and Tibetan people and that I feel proud in working with and for Tibetan people.
1. In my article, there is no attack, not even a remote mention of HH the Dalai Lama. I sincerely believe that HH the Dalai Lama has every right to hold and express his homage to any Tibetan, including a prominent Tibetan like comrade Phuntsog Wangyal. Having known His Holiness the Dalai Lama for over 40 years from a very close distance, I cannot even imagine that he will ever be unkind in his obituary to any individual, especially a person like comrade Phunwang whom His Holiness knew personally.
2.If you read my article again you will discover that my review is focused ‘ONLY’ on some ‘Political’ leaders of exile Tibetans who publicly issued their ‘official’ comments on the death of comrade Phunwang. If you have been following developments around Phunwang since his death, you will easily understand which political Tibetan exile leaders I’ve referred to. Since His Holiness does not hold any political office, He or His statement is no where a focus of my comments.
3. If Bapa Phuntsog Wangyal was your “Very Close Friend”, I can understand your pain. I send my condolence to you for this personal pain.
4. You have referred to “5000 Khampas” who in your (threatening) words “…will be willing to pay a nice visit to you (i.e. ME) and They all are in India and some live close to your residence….”. As much as I understand my Khampa brothers and sisters from Tibet, I consider them as among the most PATRIOTIC and respectable Tibetans who have — unlike late comrade Phunwang — made innumerable sacrifices to defend the freedom and honour of Tibet and Tibetan people. I hope you are not trying to equate late comrade Phunwang with great Tibetan KHAMPA patriots like ANDRUG GOMPO TASHI. Nor, I hope, any other self-respecting and patriotic KHAMPA will ever do. I therefore, humbly appeal to you to please not (repeat NOT) equate patriotic Khampa people with a person like comrade Phunwang.
5. However, if you disagree with any of my opinion or analysis in my article, I respectfully invite your comments and counter opinion on those issues. I promise you that I will read and consider it with all sincerity. As an old friend of Tibet, I’ve developed at least that much strength of conviction and morality that I will not be ashamed of changing my opinion about late comrade Phunwang if I am convinced by your arguments. Rather, I will be thankful to you for correcting my information, opinion and analysis.
With best wishes and prayers
Vijay Kranti
Note : I am forwarding a copy of this email to the Editor of PHAYUL.COM for his record and consideration about including your reaction and my initial response in Phayul’s COMMENTS column. VK
Dharamsala is place where scheming, manipulating and communist chinese a— kissing is the order of the day. It divides and rules the exile tibetan populace and its uses ‘gyawa rinpoche la kha dhanki’ to silence any exercise of democratic right knowing little the educated larrgely sees throuh the lies. It won’t be known for standing up to china. It will be infamous for grovelling shamelessly before china in an idiotic stupor to please china.
Can you kindly publish my intial posting for the sake of general debate instead of kne side shoooos on yiur block. As of now, it seems great firewall of China censored my postings.
Even the blind must see the parallels ! In Tibet those that speak their minds and stand up for the truth are IN FOR IT ! In Exile, those that speak their minds and stand up for the truth are IN FOR IT !
It is inspiring to see that there is still people that are willing to speak their minds and stand up for the truth no matter what.
And it is equally embarrassing that there is a growing number of people that will buy and sell FREE TIBET like a cheap slogan printed on an even cheaper TSHIRT but remain silent at a time when Tibetans in Tibet need them most.
Intimidation,slander, terror and death threats are chicom tactics.
Even the blind must see the parallels !
“Other exiles” sounds jamyang la is in Tibet or got american citizen.. cool..
As we live in a civilised world, i think everyone is entitled to speak their mind regarding the current issue- phuwang being traitor or not. Some people are taking this opportunity to vent their anger at Tibetan Govt in exile for ones vested motive instead of genuine interest. I request those who ve used his holiness in their arguments not to play with his holiness in the name of fulfiling your ulterior motive. It is demeaning and shameful to call yourself a Tibetan. First you should learn to respect others only then you ll have real debate rather than deviating from the main issue. Any civilized society ll not tolerate abuses of any kind. How can you call yourself educated when you are the one responsible for creating social unrest. Wake up, its never too late!!
To Paljor Dhondup,
You are a traitor when you support a traitor like Baba Phuntsok who first brought CCP to Tibet! I spit on his grave!
My fellow khampa brothers and sisters didn’t shed blood for traitors like yourselves, or just one person, they fought first and foremost for our homeland.
Although its widely claimed and publicised that Buddhism is path that demands critical thinking but people who think critically are attacked by religious right.
Taking Emotions Out of Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal:
After listening to what HH has to say about BPW on khabdha–it is clear that HH is recounting two anecdotes with BPW: 1) when they met each other in Beijing and how BPW broke down in tears 2)his reaction to the recent photo of BPW holding a khatag in his hand that BPW had sent to HH. There is no doubt that BPW had this strong emotional connection with HH (as do 99% of the Tibetans); but it is frustrating to see how these emotions completely masked the larger controversial roles that BPW played in the modern history of Tibet. When HH, Sikyong and all the members of CTA chanted mani in unison for BPW and praising how nationalist and great BPW was; it leaves out room for any kind of self-reflection and free speech. We must not let emotions color our thinking.
view from outsider, who is not Tibetan, but familiar with Tibet’s problem
I really so surprise that it seems OK for tibetans to praise a traitor, who is clear, according to the article, and his biography
any country in the world, even Buddhist, wouldn’t accept traitor, being buddhist, doesn’t mean you have to accept traitor, remember Buddha words(Pali Tripitaka), the one who participate in occupying another country, is listed among the worse people, will reside in Naraka world for years, where Dalai Lama from this??? I even suspect if he ever read it
I even read here that many tibetans disagree with dalai lama praising traitor, however, I can understand why dalai lama behaviour continue with this, even disregard tibetans opinion about it
it is because, tibetans don;t take any action against such behaviour, only talks in blogs..why don’t you do protest against such shamful prayer???? if no action taken, don’t complaint about HHDL have bad behaviour!!! you have to show some action object this in order to stop!!!!
@40. Back in the day, there used to be a song in Darjeeling about how some Khampas fought and others guided the enemy in for a price: the PLA did not know the country and had no reliable maps.
The mythic one-sided narrative of the heroic Khampa has another face that may have been forgotten by some.
Phunwang does not make my list of top ten Tib. traitors
N.G. I am sure my web chowkidar and myself made it clear that among other things we would not allow enormously lengthy comments, especially when they are longer than the actual blog post itself. Just cut it to about a quarter of its present length and we will allow it. We welcome your input.
Thx for the clarification. I will try to make it short, but some of the comments are longer than my comments.
NG
Traitor Baba phuntsok wangyal is responsible for the suffering , hunger , beaten , torture , imprision and death of my uncle , anutie, grandmother and grandfather personally in our familys ,,, and also for the death of 1.2 million tibetans in tibet ,,, SO TRAITOR BABA DO NOT DESERVE MY PRAYERS AND RESPECT …
I think there is not much that this guy must be denounced as “treason” or “traitor”. Indeed, these two words must not be used, at least, among Tibetans themselves; removing them from the Oxford Dictionary is far from realistic.
The Tibetan communist party took birth in Kalimpong and among the founder members were several “kudra” youths (see “Angry Monk”). They were all reformists. They wanted change. This guy also wanted change.
You also don’t want the old regime to come back, do you?
The regime could not be toppled without a powerful backing. There was no hope in India. So they turned to China.
What has happened is happened. It has become a history. The purpose of a history is that the people must learn a lesson from it.
Their purpose was right but their method was wrong. They could have brought the revolution without China.
But, as now, the cat has arrived and has split the milk. Or in other words: the great fall of humpty dumpty has already taken place. Now, the Tibetans must put the whole thing together and raise it again.
Tibetans must recharge themselves and rise with absolute solidarity. Don’t kill yourself, but kill the enemy. Don’t fight among yourselves, but fight the enemy. Unity is strength. Unite and advance. Attack the enemy not your own people.
i LOVE BABA PHUNTSOK WANGYAL
BABA PHUNTSOK WANGYAL is/was a TRAITOR PERIOD!
And so is stupid/idiot Paljor Thondup.
Phuntsok Wangyal was no doubt a traitor who had given a helping hand in the facilitation of the Chinese incursion into Tibet which subsequently turned out to be a full blown invasion of the nation, but the buck does not stop here if we are to make a genuine and objective reasoning and analysis as to factors contributing to the vulnerability of the nation to external aggression and occupation. To start with, it would be worthwhile to study to find out if there was any credible defence preparedness on the part of the then Tibetan Government,the answer obviously is a big no. An ad hoc military organization known as Chushe Gandruk was formed under the leadership of late Adruk Gonpo Tshi, but it was no match to the superior invading force. The fact of the matter is the then government of Tibet directly or indirectly was responsible along with Phuntsok Wangyal for the ease with which the Chinese just walked in and made themselves the master of Tibet.
Well written, but couldn’t analyze the possibility. Read Phuntsok Wangyal’s book again
No matter how much you try to hide, you can feel the heat.
I see Baba Phuntsok Wangyal as a genuine Communist failed to understand his leaders who were staunch Communist, and in no way have the eyes to see Tibetan as a genuine communist, completely fooled him of his endeavor, and throw him into the prison when they have completely used him. Unlike Ngabo, they still saw in him the sense of Tibetaness and its progress.
In the prison, he realized that he was completely fooled for what he has been doing, and all the effort and dream he had. Then there was nothing than to mend up his effort, and the stand, which by the time the world has forgotten.
In his book, time and again he was trying to explain his genuine stand, by not saying he was fooled. ITS MORE LIKE A SHEEP TRYING TO BE A WOLF,
AND NEVER BECAME WOLF REMAINED DISHEARTENED OLD SHEEP.
“Basically, he was completely fooled.”
AND SILON LUKHANGPA IS RIGHT AND BABA PHUNTSOK WANGYAL “IS” WRONG!
@Hotmail: I have no problem if Tibetans become communist as my main concern is not communism but invasion and occupation of Tibet by Chinese.
Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal and Ngabo aided in the Chinese invasion and occupation of Tibet.
We must not forget the invasion and occupation is main problem not communism.
Is living in Tibet part of “The Chinese Dream” ?
“The Chinese Dream Must First Start With The Freedom To Dream”
“The Tibetan Dream Must First Start With The Willingness And Fortitude To Help Others Achieve Their Dream”
In other words, “No Chinese Freedom…No Tibetan Freedom”
Two dogs tied to one rope pulling in opposite directions trying to get free, when all they have to do is turn and chew the rope together.
Hate the Chinese, Hate the Tibetan, Hate the Dark Skin
Hate Hate Hate, so sick of it…
North Korea ? South Korea ? NOOO Only Korean people. Dirt same on this side of line as that side of line.
Love and Compassion for EVERYONE, especially your so called “enemy”.
For they know not.
Ngabo probably could have done something if he had more to work with: to blame are the conservative monastic clique who opposed the 13th DL’s modernization of the Tibetan Army (based on what he saw in India.) I was trying to find the citation for Tibetan businessman who provided a car for a Chinese general traveling to Lhasa, before the PLA constructed roads. I guess he figure he would be in good favour when the Chinese took over if he facilitated this imperialist with a comfortable ride. I thought it was in Robert Ford’s book ‘Wind Between the Worlds’, but there is no index and a pdf search didn’t turn up the reference. It may be in Mel Goldstein’s history, I don’t remember.
Anyway the important thing is who living is betraying Tibet now? I vote for Gangchen Lama as a top contender.
Traitors are traitors
patriots are patriots
if you don’t know which is which
then it is probably you
look in the mirror
you stinking blood sucking piece of human waste
What about Sikyong Lobsang Sangay ?
Where did his money for mortgage came from?
He even refuse to answer the question when the issue came in parliament.
Doesn’t it say something? Not even answers to the parliament ?
People are now saying he has received more than mortgage money.
When an elected leader refuses to disclose source of his money to the parliament, it is time, Indian and U.S. government, who funds CTA to keep an eye on him. It will serve us all.
Some people think that Bawa Phuntsok is/was a hero and some see him as traitor and some love him and some hate him.The guy is no more and i dont think he deserves this much hate and attack. But same time i dont think he is deserving of all this praise and admiration.
what kind of message are we getting? especially the impressionable ones out there.
If Mr. Kranti wants to press charges against Paljor Thondup for making criminal threats, here is his information:
http://www.411.com/name/Paljor-Thondup/Santa-Fe-NM/7h3e6r1
complaining here, won’t give you anything
saying arrogance, treason, traitor etc…won’t stop HHDL from doing this again!!! I think all of you agree!!!
instead of complaining here, why don’t you send messgae to HHDL, inform him how many tibetans disagree with his decision?? aren’t its better?? I think so
Mr. Vijay Kranti:
You certainly WON’T have our backs.
That was a nasty piece of writing – actually just too foolish. I am talking about the threatening letter that you received from a “certain gentleman”.
Please know that WE have your back.
Thanks for being a friend of Tibet.
Mr. Lobsang Wangyal of tibetsun opines that Doctor Lobsang Sangay is the savior of Tibet, the bringer of rain, the champion of the commonweal, etc. He has convinced me, really, the Man can do no wrong. Any accusation of corruption of the Silkyong must be motivated out of sheer spite or jealousy, no other conclusion can be imagined. I am confident Doctor Lobsang Sangay is ethical as Mr Lobsang Wangyal, look how ethical LW runs Miss Tibet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A28y7YvOYEY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxnqxSbejJc
Although a rariety in our politics, we still have one or two troublemakers actually soliciting accountability from our illusterious Silkyong. There is no primer business then to immediately and hashly put an end to the hassessment of exile politicans with questions of liability before Unity suffer fatal damage, ending with someone getting “hurt.”
Buddhist outsider we thank you for your advice but first, where in the Pali Canon did Gotama say, “ (Pali Tripitaka), the one who participate in occupying another country, is listed among the worse people, will reside in Naraka world for years”?
Which Pitaka was that from? Which discourse? I ask it because I have the Pali Canon and would like to look up that passage.
Kalimpong, late June, 1951
“An escort of Indian police on mud-bespattered motorcycles and jeeps roar past, then a convoy of cars appears on the road leading into the town from the Teesta Valley. The first cars in the column are decorated with Chinese flags; they are brand new American vehicles, bought for the occasion by a wealthy Tibetan merchant. He is manifestly hoping to find grace in the eyes of Tibet’s new masters by a display of loyalty. A dozen Chinese officials and army officers alight from the cars…”
page 110,
Where the Gods are Mountains
René de Nebesky-Wojkowitz
Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1956
I wonder who gave a convoy of new cars to the Reds? I suppose Bapu Tharchin would have known. I wonder if this was reported in the Tibet Mirror?
Journeyman Pictures:
Tibet’s Self-Immolation Protests Reach Shocking New Levels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzBYtQjLmg&list=PLlGSlkijht5gyYNkhTOmpP-3AKawhjkdv
Journeyman Pictures: Self Immolation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzBYtQjLmg
First thing first.
Thank you Vijay Kranti for your wonderful article.
Now a story and moral:
I have a Tibet support group friend. She was a strong activist for Tibet living in Dharamsala. Like the letter Vijay Kranti received from Paljor Thondup. She received a letter from XYZ, his name clearly spelled out as Paljor Thondup has done. He, in fact, made several claims, including that he was an agent for security services and accused that what she was doing undermines Sino-Indian relations. She should fear for life, if she refuse to stop doing what she was doing. She was scared to death. Long story short, almost a year into this, the guy who sent the letter was found meeting Chinese embassy officials somewhere between Delhi and Dharamsala and receiving checks from Chinese Consulate in outside India.
The reason I tell you this story vaguely is that it should be on the top of our head that people like Paljor Thondup may claim many things, but could be working for someone that we all fear. This will be my first suspicion. I think this should be the first thing in everyone mind.
That said, Vijay shouldn’t take this threat lightly.
He should do the following:
1. Go to American Embassy and meet an official and provide them with a copy of letter and seek an inquiry. US officials are very good at listening to your cause for concern and will get back to you in due course of time.
2. Meet a Indian foreign ministry official in charge of Indian Embassy in U.S and seek to put this person to be put on notice for visa ban from traveling to India. This will stop him from traveling to India for sometime. India to many of us is our home. To many of us, who still refuse to accept Chinese rule, India is where our heart and soul is.
I know people who have visa ban for 20 years. This will teach people like him from threatening someone’s life.
From his letter, it is clear that he is living in New Mexico and not Mexico. New Mexico is a state in U.S. U.S is a country with laws. Seek legal action. If you need to raise fund, I will find a way to contribute my share for you or any other Tibetan friends.
I always believe friends like you and Maura and others who stick with us through thick and thin have souls of Tibetan patriot in you. JN-la, forward a copy of this post to Vijay, in case he miss this.
Thanks for all you support.
Whiteiscolor is right. These threats needs to be taken seriously and reported to the proper authorities. This will teach these scumbags of society how a civilized society behaves and there are consequences.
I totally agree everything JN wrote on this Traitor CCP’s Dog.
One thing I don’t understand whole entire Tibetan communities around the world blindly gathered praying for his death and including Dharamsala. I had to shake my head and touch my face just feel I am not in delusion if these are really people talking and consider this man as a national Hero. What about millions of Tibetan lives directly dead and killed because of his voluntary invitation of evil Red Military to our peace nation once.
# 69 is – whiteisnotacolor and not whiteiscolor.
What Dream May Come
you welcome
The Pali Tripitaka passage, is part of Majjihima Nikaya, this one”What kind of person, bhikkhus, torments himself and pur-sues the practice of torturing others? Here some person is a butcher of sheep, a butcher of pigs, a fowler, a trapper of wild beasts, a hunter, a fisherman, a thief, an executioner,a prison warden, or one who follows any other such bloody occupation. This is called the kind of person who torments others and pursues the practice of torturing others. (MN 51.9 447) all these listed, will born in Naraka world according to Him
there is also another passage more explicit, but I forget which chapter now, which speak about how occupying another country create great suffering
between, I don’t expect Tibetans to take Pali Tripitaka seriously, because you follow Tantric path, which have its own tantras books!!! I expect also Dalai lama too..thats what I know
Dear Paljor Dhondup la,
You seemed more Goonda than someone leading multiple organizations. How can you threaten someone like this from the United States? Do you know the charge of an aggravated assault in the United States? Probably, you don’t know. Explain, why you think VK is wrong. Before you come up with your sense of patriotism, you must have the responsibility of taking care of the Tibetan people around you. Maybe “reasoning” is not your way otherwise you must have long time back explained how much you have contributed and helped the Tibetan community of New Mexico when
YOU GOT THAT PROPERTY FOR TIBET PROJECT FOR JUST ONE CENT, AND YOU MADE THAT PERSONAL? (I heard it, so please if this is wrong. You must explain it on Phayul so that people will know the truth)
In that case, I don’t think VK has at least not eaten up something that was actually meant for the Tibetan…
OR Do you want Tibetan supporters who just flow with us no matter whether we do right or wrong. We need Tibetan supporters from outside to give us there perspective, intellectual perspective of how thing should be, and sometimes it will not be in the best taste. There is nothing wrong in us, we have mind sets that’s nothing to do with “REASONING” which irrespective of race, color, creed, makes it what we call “RATIONALE”…
Tsedoj
Ok, whiteisNOTacolor then.
Because of this very brave stand of the moron from New Mexico, he will be rewarded soon enough with a cushy post in Europe somewhere, milking down some easy money in the name of Tibet, like the rest of them.
i hope Mr Vijay ji has done enough research before framing his title on Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal’s lifelong work. You don’t have to rush here giving your comments and follow somebody’s judgement (Jamyang Norbu La). Since you have mention’ you wont hesitate to change your view” . i felt you didn’t follow the steps of your writing .Its not a joke ! You are writing on a Man with History’. please be serious on writing. Jamyang la has stated his points, make sure if they are true.
74 you are right. Now a days many in gankyi make their living by not advancing the tibetan struggle but by selling it. It is now accepted joke. Even the monkeys in ganchen kishong trees are more rational. It is basically acdefacto chinese embassy.
#s 74 and 75 reminded me of something that had been at the back of my mind for a long time. Most of the Tibetans who work for the CTA or its sattelites are loyal to His Holiness which is great. I too am a Tibetan who believes His Holiness to be the spiritual head of Tibetans and more. But their loyalty to His Holiness exceeds their loyalty to the nation of Tibet. Its a fact. Ever since His Holiness gave up on Tibetan Independence His Holiness and Tibet are no longer analogous. These same parasite (who benefits from Tibetanness) quote His Holiness to justify their inactions. In giving up Nation of Tibet they behave like the most enlightened and generous Buddha willing to give up everything. But regarding their own personal property I wonder how generous these Boddhistvas would behave.
If you want observe cult behaviour, take a look at the Tibetan drama. Those who are calling Shudgen followers are equally fanatic and cultish themselves. LOL. They call the CHinese liars and accuse them of rewriting history but they do the EXACT SAME THING IN EXILE. SAME TO SAME!! Patriots are made into taitors. Traitors are made into Patriots. and all the bald heads build palaces next to poor farmers. Buddha will be so proud.
“I don’t expect Tibetans to take Pali Tripitaka seriously, because you follow Tantric path, which have its own tantras books!!!”
Buddhist Outsider, there is no hint of Gotama saying anything about a traitor to one’s nation in any of his parables in the Kandaraka sutta. Once again, the sutra was about Meditation, specifically, Right Practice, and also something about, “the king lives on the milk in the first teat of a cow with the calf of the same color.”
Its strange how you are attempting to quote Pali to us Tibetans in the first place, but, yes, you are right, we Tibetans don’t take the Pali Canon all that seriously and that’s why I am so ready to believe your own personal interpretation of what Gotama never said.
I don’t consider any communist or democratic minded Tibetan who brought Chinese into Tibet on whatever pretext worthy of admiration. I did not know Phuntsok Wangyal Bawa personally and he might have been a wonderful person with lofty ideals. But I don’t need Jamyang Norbu or Vijay Kranti or any other writer to tell me that what this man did was wrong. The fact that he comrpomised the national integrity of Tibet is worthy of condemnation.
WHAT DREAMS MAY COME
I don’t understand why you take it in agressive way, and accuse me “lying”!!!
why I will lie???
Tibet is not my country, so I don’t have any reason to “lie”
I already post the passage, Lord Buddha speak about prisoner, torturer, bloody occupation etc..so its obvious!!!! its very wierd that you don’t get the message, unless you don’t understand english..which seems so
its doesn’t have to be traitor, read my message carefully, I didn’t mention traitor, Lord Buddha doesn’t want to speak about nations to avoid racism issues, he speak generally for the one who participate in invading other country(which include, jailer, toturer,,killer etc) all bloody occupation
any way, I doubt even if you troll, not really seeking to Understand Buddhism
Hey Kudha,,, I’m gonna send you a hitman… bastard..
Jamyang la,,,
We Tibetans believe and consider you as a very unique man.. But your criticism is more disruptive and self judgment beyond the society.. I believe a man like Che Guevera is not just the hero of the Latin America, He’s the role model of revolutionary and pure ideologistic man.. You say something but true ideological and action is nothing… I can’t resist and follow an article of a man like yours… I really wanna send a hit man to a batman of society like you…. Too much is dangerous… Be careful….
If you consider Bawa as a traitor of Tibet, then we need to bring all the Tibetan Royal family members besides Dailai Lama before 1959 who fled to Colorado and other parts of the world to bring to a trail.. You need to be careful what you have published or say… You are one of the damn spoil apple in our society.. Be ware of you, self acclaimed scholar… wanna send you hitman and get rid of you……………….
Here is the latest response from Mr.Tribal leader Paljor Dhondup to Vijay Kranti:
Mr.Vijay Kranti,
I am glad that you posted my statement and yours on phayul. I respect people who are frank, straightforward and self-confident. I will not waste my time arguing with you nor I will hold any grudges against you. As you seem to know about Khampas. They are known to be best of friends or worst enemies. Case settled!
All the best,
Paljor Thondup
So,brave words before and now tail between his legs, he runs away. Hah…He was not arguing but threatening to do Vijay Kranti physical harm. Now he pretends like he is a frank, straight forward and self confident himself as he admires it from others , insteaid of a stupid idioit bully who is used to getting his way by threatening voilence. Why is he bring the name of all Khampas down to his level? Surely he is not saying they are all dumb and stupid and narrow-minded fools like him.
http://www.tibettimes.net/news.php?id=8754
I think JN did not get enough time to do a thorough research on Baba Phunwang’s strategy. He a was pure Marxist, who admires Mao greatly.He liked Mao’s ideology and one can see China today. His goal was to revolutionize social,political and economic structure of Tibetan’s Feudalistic System too. Most of Tibet’s land and live-stock own by a few aristocrats ( Kudaks ) and monasteries and, rest are slaves of these landlords. Phunwang saw that the only tool to change this system is to introduce Marxism in Tibet,the doctrine that the state throughout history has been a device for the exploitation of the masses by a dominant class. He also sought help from Tibetan Government to push back the advancing Chinese military in Tibet and but our Kashak had turned back on him. He spent 18 years in Chinese jail because of his anti-Chinese occupation in Tibet.
I am a khampa but paljor dhondup now has an appearance of a stray dog with his tail between his legs, revealing he is a lot of gas and ignorence.
@85: Tibetans including Dalai Lama fled to India, Nepal and Bhutan not Colorado.
Only hundred or so went to Colorado to get trained in warfare and not single one of them stayed backed in Colorado but came back to fight Chinese by joining the Chushi Gangdruk.
I have no problem with any Tibetan for bringing communism to Tibet but definitely have hell lot of problem when they aid Chinese occupation forces – PLA in Tibet.
Moreover, communism is now lost and busted of its past so called principle for liberation of masses but its uses far more repressive force on masses to promote communism.
No wonder all former communist Eastern European countries including Russia have buried the communism in graveyard because its based on myth but not on reality.
Only handful remain like pathetic North Korea, Cuba and China.
Another point is that Tibetans have instinct to follower the leader than take risk and bell the cat like JN.
Communism is another kind of feudalism.
Yes, he was a true communist. He went to school of communism and totally taken in by Communism and not having one iota of faith in Buddhism. Yes, He wanted change the system just like many others. So now he is become our national hero. i am wondering if it means that only by being a Communist and wanting deliverance from the fanaticism you are a national hero. What if you had full faith and confidence in your spirituality and wanted change but not like a revolution but evolution? that dont count? because we have slavish mentality. So anyway, who are those culprits from who all the people’s want the change? All the people (in hindsight) and including Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal wanted deliverance from what and who?
Denzel dorjee, if you are a supporter of Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal then what a disgrace you are to him. You have HHDL, Samdong Lama, Lobsang Sangay and the hole of CTA praising him to the sky. A few differing opinions offered here and you go crazy like a mad man.If you truly beleive that Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal was/ is a national hero then nothing should shake you up that much.Just rest in the knowledge and the knowing that He is/was a great being- like they say in Buddhism. If your faith in that knowledge is shaky then do the shakin’ stevens.
Feudalism is evil where ever it is practised. But the communism practised by China where mass incaceration,tortue and execution are rampant should not be equated with Tibetan feudalism. And then, compared to European feudal lords who quartered their victims and Chinese war lords who practised death by thousand cuts (read an earlier piece by JN on that),and other evils such as footbinding of women, the Tibetan aristocrats were benign.
#92 – Pasangla I agree with you.
If he’s not content with all that praise from renknowned quarters for his hero
Then its shaky Steven time for Denzel dorjela.
Be ready to hail Hu Jintao as a sincere friend of Tibet in the near future. After all, he had served Chair in Tibet Autonomous Region in the past. I’m sure he must have benefitted at least 0.0001% to the Tibetans.
Now I am concerned that some on cta in powerful places are wallowing in cinese money and some are trapped by chinese blackmail. There is no other explanation for their craziness.
I personally don’t think that they are paid by Chinese. But one thing I am sure is that they care more about their “karma” than Tibet. They think if they disagree with His Holiness the slightest bit they will accumulate black karma and go to hell. So tomorrow if His Holiness were to think that may be it is best to just give up everything and be part of China those people will be hunky dory. And if His Holiness were to joke that Xi Jinping is reincarnation of some Bodhisatva half of those people will take it for real and will be falling at Xi’s feet and erecting statues of him and putting them high up on their altars.
Time to clean up the parliament during the near future elections. Any pompous ass who talks more than five minutes is full of himself and should be booted out and start electing the younger generation.
Nobody in the parliament has the balls to ask Sikyong where he got the money for his house, almost quarter of a million dollars. Such BacWAS! bunch of idiots! Pompous useless bunch of spineless morons. What the point of people Parliamentarian if you can not ask the hard questions? Seat warmers.
I agree with Tenzin Bhutia taht the HH Dalai Lama had given up on Tibet since he quit Tibet in 1959. Sikyon, Lobsang Sangya acts as a Secretary and bodyguard to His Holiness and rest are taking the opportunity and exploiting innocent Tibetans by being a sycophant. Tibetan language and culture is disappearing everywhere. Dharamsala pays little or no attention to this culturally self immolation. Many Central Schools for Tibetans have been disappeared within two years in many locations.
What is going on in Dharamasa ?
Dhundup dorjee
I agree with you very much
I believe my self, that HHDL is only care about his karma, his famousness, wealthy, admiration by people in the world etc..not Tibet, in fact, Tibet issue is not one of his priorities..he doesn’t care whatever happen
if any one has take careful analysis to Dalai lama speech on Tibet issue, and his speech on dorjee shugden for example..you will find he focus more on showing too much compassion to chinese, while dorjee shugend, you will realise much less compassion, more anger, fanaticism etc..this is because he doesn’t care about tibet, he want to take advantage to tibet issue to take personal famousness, and amdiration by west..while for dorjee shugden he is more extreme, because he think it will harm him personaly, also he doesn’t bear the fact that some tibetan don’t obey him
as I post before, to stop this behaviour, is by showing dissatisfying, doing something like protest..it will put more pressure, then just sitting silent..which won’t do anything
Buddhist Outsider
I understand your pain and frustration but when you talk so disparagingly of some one who is the emobdiment of Chenresig to millions of Tibetans and other Buddhists it will not help your cause. Say your piece in a civil manner so that your reader can keep an open mind about what you have to say.
Regarding the online participation, there is a well research formula called 90-9-1
It is explained that 90 percent of people will just read without writing anything and while 9 percent will occasionally write and 1 percent will be most active in writing.
This formula holds very much true on this blog. I used to 90 percent who just come on this blog just to read. Then came intolerant people with pseudonym like white is color and bully like Paljor Thondup whom I couldn’t stand.
I urge all the active participant to write their heart out and know that 90 percent are there reading your views and making people think and thereby affecting change either way.
JN and VK: Thank you for bringing some sanity to the Tibetan World. Are we that dumb to distinguish between a traitor and a patriot? Have we become such a spineless creature unable to call spade a spade or have we all become Buddha who is in a state of equanimity?
I wish we are more generous and compassionate towards Rangzen Advocate and Shugdhen practitioner at least in their earlier stages (of course, now Shugdhen people are like Phunwang who is colliding with the chinese to disrupt tibetan community).
The Bottome line: If Phunwang is a hero or revolutionary because he brought or help chinese “liberate” Tibet, then intentionally you are referring and condemning those brave Tibetans who resisted Chinese, such as brave chushi gangdruk and others as “counter-revolutionary. Now tell me who is doing the China’s real dirty Work?
Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal- Please rest in hell- My prayers for you.
Paljor Thundup: Forget about leader, you are not even Khampa. Khampas are known for getting tougher when going gets tough. You sucked! Case settled? by who? We are the judge. You either apologize and take that tribal mentality out or forever treat you like a bitch–excuse my french.
I can’t believe White Is Not A Colour– Your are very colorful and i agree with you 100%.
SAD EYES:: Younger chitus are not necessarily better at all. They all act cool talking about Tibet and international conferences they attend and unity and blah blah… but not so much on substance.
They are many young chithus these days and they never raise critical question to Kashag. The worst is Choekyong, Youdon, and their team- they never question Kashag. They act like they are part of the executive. Choekyong is expecting to one of the Dhonchoe and Youdon is a good friend of sikyong and since her brother got good post she keeps queit. Dhardon seems to be influenced heavily by Youdon looking at her voting record.
I am NOT IMPRESSED WITH YOUNGER CHITHUS AT ALL. Many are looking for a better post for themselves– and in hope of landing such post they agree with kashag more than they should be.
The Older Chithus are the one who grilled the Kashag. If you watch the recently concluded Drotsok- you can see Older chithus have make Sikyong and Kalon very embarassing.
Dawa Phunkyi asked about Sikyong’s mortgage fund– the voice was somehow turned off. They said that Sikyong didn’t respond to his question. However Sikyong responded at the last speech of the session where there are no rebuttal and he gave a half answer to this effect:
“Many tibetan bought house in 5-6years. I have been in US for 15 years and why can’t i buy a house.”
Obviously, many Chithus felt cheated as he didn’t give answer to the main question which is How he could acquire $200.000 plus to paid off the mortgage just before his Inauguration?
Sikyong had open up a cab a worm now. Now, the chithus should be asking lots of questions next time… Obiviously, he is trying to hide something and trying to divert the attention.
Take care.
with or without baba phuntsok or ngabo, tibet couldn’t have resisted invasion. they are astute, pragmatic fellows, rather than sticklers for provincial moral questions. i believe it is better to have a tibetan or two in higher echelons of ccp than none. the influence of 11 panchen lama in ccp help retain tibetan language in schools-and other quoters- without which it would have near totally dissapeared now. those fellows with real, concrete powers contributed more to the tibetan happiness than the shrill so-called thinkers,writers,poets,critics who can’t get a thing done, but only complain, compare and criticise.
I view the self immolators in Tibet as the true heros , real lightworkers of this time with a higher consciousness. I would count some of the writers,poets and thinkers in Tibet and exile in the same category-and more close to our true primodial nature than your pragmatic, selfie culture aligned at the gross level types.
to # 106 old monk
I just wonder what would have happened if we ALL had been ‘astute & pragmatic’ and never made our escape to exile in India?
Have readers any inputs about such a scenario?
Just read Chang’s latest article in Phayul for what’s in store in motherland
106, your argument in essence, unless it escapsed through the holes in your contorted logic, is that bawa phuntsok is not a traitor as, in his abscence, china would have occupied tibet anyway and writers are irrelevant.
Old man: just because somebody would have raped you regardless doesn’t make it ok for you to tear my clothes off and hold me down for the rapists. Stupid old monk used to raping little boys think it is ok to do the same.
OLD MONK re #106
NO Tibetan under the chinese rule enjoyed “real concrete power.”
And the “so-called thinkers, writers, poets, critics” atleast get to complain, compare and criticise. That in itself is too important and difficult a job to be done. Not to mention that it enlightens the public and keep the politicians on their toes.
Long Live the writers, thinkers, poets, and critics…
Take care
a loaner like BPWangyal couldn’t possibly be solely held responsible for the invasion. There are too many factors most being the elite faction dancing to the chang and ara that they couldn’t recognize the enemy with blurry vision but then they could carry with ser and mutik across himalaya.
@ 109, it takes all sorts to complete a mission. We need phunwang, we need jn, we need tsundue.
@ 111. your issue involves questions of ethical philosophy rather than political legacy of a man. in fact, phunwang’s role in Invasion is minuscule, and could be argued, was a small price to pay for Tibetan’s inclusion in ccp.
112, agree in part to your thesis. But the question is- whether or not presence of Tibetan cadres in ccp leadership is a positive force for Tibetans?
Well, phunwang and previous panchen lama were essentially in the same position as regards to conciliation towards Beijing, operating within its strictures. It appears tibetan bias towards clerics is proven here, or commenters are intellectually dishonest to avoid uncomfortable truth. Think, think my bethrens!
@ old monk
“In fact, phunwang’s role in invasion is miniscule, and could be argued, was a small price to pay for Tibetan’s inclusion in ccp’
I never knew that we tibetans were so hard up and eager to get into CCP cadre leadership.I was always under the impression that CCP was dying to get Tibetans into CCP and when nobody of any standing wanted nothing to do with them, they resorted to recruiting the so called disenfranchised and now they are the ones in the ccp leadership like Ragdi and Jampa phuntsok etc.we should hail them also as our national heroes coz they too i’m sure have good intentions for tibet and Tibetans in their own way.
“in fact, phunwangs role in invasion was minuscule” i agree that with or without Phunwang chinese were never far behind. remember the chinese came into eastern Tibet in 1949 and there was plenty time until 59 for tibetan govt to do something but never bothered.
He is one of the drops against Tibetan sovereignity that collected to become sea. sea of short sighted self-aggrandazing pus.
It is scary how our tibetan society is heading for. You never know who is traitor or hero. Only it is matter of time.? Oops is it? No, no nnnnnnooo!
It is totally depends on one person’s voice that is when hhdl says he is a not a hero, then he is not a hero. Period.
So no matter what she/ he had done so much to tibet cause, if it does not go well with hhdl and exile govt. then you r finished.
Expert writer like jamyang norbu, lhasang tsering are hardly seen during the conference in Dhasa. So called experts, same face with same stories r always there and it is always boring to hear that same view again again and again and again. I think that is one of the main root evil cause why we can not produce a professional( what hhdl has been lecturing and focusing). Just one view, listen wholeheartedly and follow it. No matter what u believe it or not!
@114 Old Monk-
I’m glad to you agree part of my thesis.
The real question is if Phunwang a traitor or a Hero. And the real answer, if you ask me, is that he is a traitor. Because accepting Phunwang as a hero negates the contribution of Chushi-Gangdruk and other brave Tibetan who fought the invading Chinese aarmy whom Phunwang helped.
Phunwang is guilty of killing tibetan resistence force by colliding with the enemy combatant. PERIOD.
You can’t fool us (the english news reader); you can only fool those Tibetan news reader: The most consistently misled audience. SAD!
Therefore, Its imperative that someone translate this and Vijay’s article in Tibetan. Thanks
I think phungwang la is a tragic hero, because he has ambitions to reform in Tibet, but there is no power, therefore, rely on external forces, who would not have thought that the Chinese Communists would be so，but no choice.
Phungwang la also left the political testament: 1. Tibet was an independent country; 2. tibet did not receive the power of statutory autonomy from PRC; 3. Allow the Dalai Lama back to tibet.
Old monk:
Whatever Bawa Phuntsokla stood for: socialist ideology & all that he studied like religion on Marxism – his MAIN Boss was the CCP. He was such a genuine Marxist of great integrity that his number ONE loyalty would be to the party – CCP. EVERYTHING ELSE would be secondary: his family and of course Tibet. You will only be accepted as a top CCP member if you are atheist and your TOP priority is the party and motherland – china. We hung on to him as old monk suggests as we need a CCP memeber connection (for reconciliation – please take me back)but he made and got much more mileage out of that connection than CTA. Seems Panchen Lama was able to do more ‘concrete’ stuffs than any other leader in Tibet. As (pragmatic) Bawa P found out the path to Marxism isn’t all that romantic & idealistic but is brutal and violent.
Back to pragmatism: Now we have to look out for other CCP cadres – some are shugden communists
Centuries later, people will speak of the race that killed itself and its history. The Tibetans who diluted so much that they were worth less than pee.
Bawa Phuntsok Wanggyal is a one of a kind Tibetan who believed in specific political ideology and dedicated his entire life towards that believe. He is affliated with Chinese Communist Party well before Chinese occupation of Tibet. Obviously this man wanted change in Tibetan society. His true personalities only be discribed by people who workd with him closely and people who knows him closely. People like me and others in this blog have no ability to describe this unique Tibetan.
First thing first:
I am not a shugden/dogyal follower. I get this out, before my views are conveniently trash as coming form dhogyal group. I do not believe in any of that stuff.
Now to talk about traitors; traitors were traitors. Period.
Webster dictionary defines traitors as :
” a person who is not loyal to his or her own country, friends, etc. : a person who betrays a country or group of people by helping or supporting an enemy.”
If we, Tibetans are live and breathe like all others in this universe, and think sanely, outside His Holiness the Dalai Lama created spin city, we will be all wake up and know that we are the worst desperate wretch; worst than Bhutanese, whom many on the blog consider as our country cousin.
The fact is, we have lost our country and now, the masters of spin city and their lord chamberlains, like OLD MAN and WHITE IS COLOR want us to workshop traitors. Forget it.
I am student of history and I think things like this happens only in Tibetan world. I feel like puking.
May be ‘White is color’ and ‘old monk’ should make thangka of Bawa Phunwang and hang it their chapel and gift it to other turncoats.
I think it is not only against human decency and goes against my education. Buddhist in me tells me that even accepting Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal, who had bloods on his hand, including of his own first wife ( who died like countless of Tibetans in prison) is to say that there is no law of Karma.
I can’t believe how crazies these monks can become.
As far as I am concern, I honor only real patriot and JN is a solid one and all those who gave their lives for Tibet were one. I don’t want any more to die in self-immolation. I want them living than dead.
I salute only real heroes and I prefer to live in real world.
The controversial views against any issue including Phunwang is that individual Tibetans are not able to make their own rational judgement based upon facts and analysis.
Unless each Tibetan think and act, Tibet as nation will remain weak and feeble subject to foreign domination.
Guys, tell me what’s your take on last panchen lama? He was even more involved with ccp than phunwang. Again turncoat?
@ 123 Old Monk,
Why the question? Are you complaining that the late Panchen Lama did not pay enough obeisance to Dharamsala?
Watch Dharamshala, Bawa folks are displaying their tribal affiliation at best by organizing panel on Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal. The Bawa associations only goal seems to insulate “Bawa” name from being connected to traitor, betrayer and informer.
People on this blog tend to react opposite to any decision coming from His Holiness and CTA. Imagine if His Holiness and CTA declares that Bawa Thupten Wangyal being Chinese stooge, traitor and disloyal to his country. People on this blog will have a opposite to say most likely declaring that Bawa Thupten Wangyal being one of their kind, who had mind of social reform by oppossing policies of once own government and leaders.
When Bawa Thupten Wangyal found Tibetan Communist Party and started working with CCP, Tibet did not suffer from Chinese brutality yet. It was such a volatile political time Bawa himself may not have expected the future of Tibet. I personally believe whatever he did, it was simply driven by his believe in social reform. In another words Bawa was unhappy about status quo situation of Tibetan society and he wanted to change. There is no evidence that Bawa’s behaviour was driven by any personal interest. On the contary, Bawa’s 18 years of imprisonment is the clear evidence that he was the man of Tibet, not man of China.
@125 If traitor Phunstok Wangyal become patriot then we have to rewrite history especially in relation to China.
All songs such as Longsho etc need to be banned.
It is an exaggeration to say people on this blog react against everthing Dharamsala has to say. May be a few percentage points of the things that comes from Dharamsala but not “all.” Our society will be stronger if there are more bloggers like JN who can keep the leaders on their toes otherwise as they say “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
It is for sicko like White is Color that I am on this blog.
Look at his twisted logic, when he writes:
” On the contary, Bawa’s 18 years of imprisonment is the clear evidence that he was the man of Tibet, not man of China.”
By that logic all those Chinese leaders who Mao imprisoned had to be what he called ” the man of Tibet, not of China.”
It is, in fact crazies like him, who have singular agenda and that is to attack Rangzen advocate. You guys will rot in hell. That is what I wish for you.
As wisdom from Sakya Lekshe says,
” The dark charcoal even when washed with holy waters of river ganges and wrapped in silky white scarves will not turn white. ” I know people like White is Color are beyond redemption, I still think there are many on the blog who are willing to learn and improve their mind set.
For them, I have two quote, which will help them understand what is the meaning of real patriot means.
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it.” Mark Twain
“The greatest patriotism is to tell your country when it is behaving dishonorably, foolishly, viciously.” Julian Barnes,
@128 In totalitarian system its allegiance to leader not country that count. So many Chinese leaders like Deng and even Chinese president were in prison. Tens of thousand of Tibetans from innocent farmer to monks were imprisoned not just Phungwang alone.
Tens of thousand of Tibetans from innocent farmer to monks were imprisoned not just Phungwang alone. Chinese president died in prison.
China wasn’t an enemy of Tibet until late 1950s. Many Tibetans that included our leaders of that time thought China was going to help Tibet to modernize as they promised. Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal might have been the victim of Chinese betrayal just like rest of Tibetan population. Only difference is that he had his own agenda that is to reform Tibetan society from some sort of fuedalism and theocracy to socialism. We do not know for sure if he beleived in Rangzen but he obviously cared for the well being of Tibetan people.
Since he holds no significant position in CCP, power struggle can not be the reason for his imprisonment. Only reason for his imprisonment is his affliation with well being of Tibetan people.
I do not understand people like WHITEISNOTACOLOR who is filled with hate for no significant reasons. Its totally up to you what you want to believe but hate is unneccessary, uncivil and inhuman.
Whiteiscolor,
I have problems with people like you who wants us to re-write our history . I am parent and I don’t want my children to be led by the nose to read the history way, twisted people like you want to them to understand.
Traitor is traitor. To honor the traitor on the same pedestal as patriot is to say that, people we consider heroes who died in resistance against what we have been calling Ten-Da ( enemy of dharma ) as mis-guided!
According to your new world view, may be there are enemy of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Samthong Lama and Sikyong Sangay, if they were living.
If they were to go by your newer re-written version, they must be rotting in hell for going against the holiness of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Their crime for giving their precious lives in defense of one’s own country and honor of one’s own race and religion. How convenient things are, for you!
That is the reason I said, I feel like puking.
Your new found social engineer hero, Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal was one of Ten-da.
I know, he said something against China’s policies in Tibet, especially in the wake of self-immolations. He did this in light of things after he lost all the power and position.
Shrewd as he was, despite his being communist and all that crap, his buddhist heritage caught up with him, creating a confusion and I think, again he tried to play it safe. This time, he was thinking, what if, there really is a thing called KARMA!
My anger against you may not justified as such. But I live among lot of crazies like you, who refuse to think by themselves but are ready to paint all anyone who think otherwise as enemy of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and CTA.
You are nothing but a red guard. All the craps you wrote for over a year on this blog bears testimony to your narrow mindedness. People like you will one day have your version of Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal’s moment and will feel ashamed of your children.
Both you and I are fighting for the heart and soul of Tibet and it is for our children. I hope, I will win the battle because the truth and history is on my side and not on your and communist crap.
I mean feel ashamed FOR your children, not of. My mistake. Sorry.
113 you are right. In the final anaysis why is happening what is happening in dharamsala. Now people are realizing what is going on. It is my way or highwaycof hhdl.
Whitecolour @ 125
Do not cheapen your debate by using HHDL’s name in vain to snuff out other view points.
This is a symptom from OLD SOCIETAL thinking that you talk of.
Give your own view points.
(HHDL finds compassion & goodness even with murderous CCP). For a new society – HH encourages us to think and reason things out for ourselves – so don’t insult HH and all of us) .
WHITEISNOTACOLOR
You presented yourself as a very patriotic Tibetan who believes nothing but the Rangzen. I truly hope this is not a pretentious act because even though I choose to follow MWA policy based on countless reasons, I have high respect for Rangzen advocates for their determination and patriotic attitude. I said numerous times in this blog that Rangzen policy do not counter act to MW Policy, in fact it strengthens the His Holiness effort towards MWA. I hope CTA find some political room for Rangzen advocate people. After all people of Tibet will decide which direction they want to go.
Bawa Phuntsok may have erred in his effort to achieve his political goal one of them being trusting China too much. As far as I am concerned everything he did was to achieve his political goal that is to bring social reform in Tibetan society and of course I do not agree with his approach. Generally traitors do things for money, power and any other personal interest. Does anyone has evidence that Bawa was involved with things I just mentioned? As a Buddhist motivation counts for everything.
This blog should be dedicated for the people who want to exchange their views based on their understanding with logical reasons and commons sense. People should not abuse this blog to show their arrogant and to curse people.
Bawa Phuntsogla – brought the nation down – ‘the offense of acting to overthrow one’s government’ that’s a traitor.
Then he rode with CCP generals and army into Lhasa with CCP flag. Phunwang himself proudly lays it out openly like a true CCP cadre.
“Nothing limits intelligence more than ignorance; nothing fosters ignorance more than one’s own opinions; nothing strengthens opinions more than refusing to look at reality.” ― Sheri S. Tepper
The great preacher White is color on his posting @ 137 wrote:
This blog should be dedicated for the people who want to EXCHANGE their views based on their understanding with LOGICAL REASONS and COMMON SENSE . People should not abuse this blog to show their ARROGANT and to CURSE people.
I plead guilty that I did curse ( I curse traitors and their stooges and bullies) and when you challenge them, one might sound bit arrogant too.
I won’t say sorry for cursing the traitors and their kind but will say sorry for unwitting sounding arrogant.
But, the disrobed ” whiteiscolor” , a person of LOGICAL REASONS and COMMON SENSE seeking EXCHANGE of ideas. You all be the judge.
There are lots of his posting to quote him back. Without having to quote all his posting, just take a look at the following quote from his earlier posting @ 125
Here you go:
” People on this blog tend to REACT OPPOSITE to ANY DECISION coming from His Holiness and CTA. Imagine if His Holiness and CTA declares that Bawa Thupten Wangyal being Chinese stooge, traitor and disloyal to his country.
” People on this blog will have a OPPOSITE TO SAY most likely declaring that Bawa Thupten Wangyal being one of their kind, who had mind of social reform by oppossing policies of once own government and leaders.”
Does this sound like a logical reasoning and common sense argument, wanting a discussion or exchange of ideas?
The tragedy of our community is that many of our well intention people is that they did not get well enough modern education and half-baked with their pseudo-religious training, this includes many westerners now in Shugden camps. (I plead to everyone open your mind, give best of education to all our children, real modern education, while seeking to preserve best of our own culture and religion.)
I made two allegations that he is ” twisted” and ” crazy” and possibly a turncoat. If he is not, he is confused, may be not beyond redemption, but full of false pride.
If a sketch artist working for, let say police, wants me to provide a profile of whiteiscolor, I think I can do a provide one. I am living with so many of close minded people like him.
@137 If aiding and bringing in enemy solider in occupation, oppression and destruction of ones own country but also Tibetan civilization itself is isn’t traitorous than what else could be traitorous.
1.2 million Tibetans died in process in addition to destruction of 99% of monasteries in Tibet and nationwide systemic looting of Tibetan homes and resources.
True communist do not believe in Buddhism so call Bapa a Buddhist.
WHITEISNOTACOLOR
It takes nothing but ignorant to belittle somebody. It takes nothing but ignorant to label somebody “twisted” and “crazy”. It does not take “real modern education” to curse somebody “rot in hell”. No qualifications are required to behave in such a manner. I can do it and anybody can do it.
I have not seen single post in this blog that applauds Dalai Lama and CTAs decision. May be slightly exaggerating if I say all are completely against Dalai Lama, Zhamdhong Rinpoche and now Lobsang Sangye and Members of Parliament. This is the fact seating in front of our eyes.
I asked evidence if Bawa Phuntsok Wangyal have done anything for his personal gain that might define him as a traitor but all I get is personal attack.
You said “The tragedy of our community is that many of our well intention people is that they did not get well enough modern education and half-baked with their pseudo-religious training”. If you have a problem with large majority of Tibetans being deeply religious and our political directions are strongly influenced by their faith than that’s your personal problem. Otherwise Lobsang Sangye can be one of the best example of person who received “well enough modern education”.
After all if your fight is against China for People of Tibet than you still have my respect irrespective of your political attitude. Have a good day!
Must watch video
Slavery: A 21st Century Evil – Prison slaves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqXAkE-54NU
If you need applauding for the job you chose to do this is the wrong place. You got to join the theater.
Whiteiscolor:
You wrote the following in your post @141:
” I have not seen single post in this blog that APPLAUDS Dalai Lama and CTAs decision .”
Let me offer you a praise:
White is color: ” you are the lama, your are the Yidam,you are the Khado, and since you are the Choe-kyon” ;
Now please list us, just five praise-worthy things that His Holiness the Dalai Lama and more importantly of Sikyong Lobsang Sangay has done for TIBET within the last TWO Years.
It will be very good education for many of us and I am ready to offer a standing ovation.
But the key word is for TIBET and it should not be things in pursuit of ” individual name and fame. “, where I haven’t seen any dividend for Tibet. ( After all, as you keep insisting that even Bapa Phunstok Wangyal didn’t chase those glories, right ?)
It will be a great service on your part and I whole-heartedly offer my appreciation as a tuition fee here, well in advance. Thank you. Take your time.
Anyog Tenpa la: Thanks for your 105 post. You like me is an insider, and shared a very important information about a person that Tibetan community will soon see as a new face of Tibetan diplomacy/Dhonchoe. But I see disaster written all over again.
WHITEISNOTACOLOR
Your insult or your praise make no difference to me personally. Actually I do not know exactly the person like you really want.
Let me ask you some questions, what Dalai Lama and CTA have not done for Tibet that in your opinion they should have done in the last two years? As a responsible individual Tibetan, what have you done for Tibet and specifically towards Rangzen in the last two years?
Almost all our top officials are well educated in some of the most recognized schools around the country, you are still bothered by their political view and their leadership. The door is open for every Tibetan at CTA, if anybody has contribution to make for people of Tibet. Otherwise, just complaining and complaining and complaining gain nothing.
Lastly you must know and remember because of His holiness Dalai Lama, you have something to complain about.
Whiteiscolor;
You are highly educated and good with English. Take this opportunity to give people like whiteisnotacolor a lesson.
You said: Actually I do not know exactly the person like you really want?
I think he pleaded with you to educate him and others with your wide knowledge.
I hope you will take this opportunity to write something useful, instead of repeating the same thing again and again against everyone who challenge your view point.
I think there are lot of people looking forward to learn something positive from you.
@ 128 Thuchen
You are quite right. That seems to be their agenda and in a way I do understand why they doing it. But very wily how they went about it and the CTA and Dharamsala fell hook, line and sinker. Well, actually Dharamsala is not that naive. They do like the adulation and attention from anybody from China especially the CCP cadres.
The five praise-worthy achievements of Sikyong Kewang Lobsang Sangay are as follows:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
O.K. I waiting for Whiteiscolour to do the job as he is far better than I in intellectual discussion.
Shenphen asks Sikyong the Six Million Dollar queston:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbqLLnG2r0g
Come to think of it, Harvard is known for its Business studies not for Political Science.
@154 There is Kennedy School of Government at Harvard.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chUX_eRRNOs
It is with heavy heart, I announce here the passing away of Whiteiscolour for all his fan on this blog.
He was doing research to challenge some nasty questions posed to him. He really wanted to give them a detail defense, but became harder and harder to find real good substantive argument to make.
He couldn’t sleep for several nights, struck on the issue of having to find something about our leaders, that ” should not be ” what his opponents call ” anything in pursuit of personal name and fame.”
He died as a sad man. But he sure was a well intention man, although some of his opponents do suspected that he was intentionally provoking others, so they will do the dirty work for him by spilling more beans. I admit that was not his real intention.
Please pray for his soul and consider his case as close. ( Unless, of course, his spirit appears.)
Dedicated to Jamyang Norbu la and Rangzen Walas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJk2YwXBbSA&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnn9mSGBmso&sns=em
HEY LOB KIBUM,
WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA ? YOU TRYING TO HACK ALL PEOPLE COMPUTER BY PUTTING ALL THIS LINK AGAIN AND AGAIN? BETTER WATCH OUT. MIND IT I’M SERIOUS.
J.N. la,
I have a special request for you and your group of fans.
I told my children that this summer is going to be a ” summer of Tibet “, meaning, we are going to dedicate this summer for Tibet by reading books on Tibet, watch movies on Tibet, including on youtube, listen to Tibetan songs and understand their meaning etc, visiting near by museum where there is Tibet exhibits, listening to scholar talk.”
I strongly believe that every Tibetan parents need to do this, specially those to us who are in west, during any summer vacation.
CTA recently started indoctrinating even school children on U-may -lam.
Recently a group of school Gen-dhas are sermoned in Dharamsala for what is billed as ” leadership training”, where the main focus is listening to Sikyong Sangay and Chithue Tsok -tso on middle path crap.
Where is critical learning?
I am requesting J.N -la to design an article / or create a recommended reading list of books, movies etc to learn about Tibet and Tibetan culture or for that matter any books that will give them courage in the face of despair and build their character to become an open minded citizen of Tibet,
Please think about doing one.
It will be a great service for many parents hoping to raise a patriotic Tibetan, one who is proud of one’s race and culture, and one who is willing to say, Tibet was an independent and will be an independent country.
Thanks.
@Lodroe: What was the entire content of so called “Leadership Training”? Hope LS did not declare “Tibet was inalienable part of China since ancient times”!
What age group of children to read you are talking about during summer?
The first question is, do you want your Children read in Tibetan or Chinese or English or Hindi or Nepalese or Spanish or French or any other unmentioned languages?
What is your ideal definition of “patriotic” citizen of so called Tibet? Is it merely a sentimental notion to prove yourself by throwing some facts which could be of any kinds depending on writers agenda and perspective or is it something to do in real? Where patriotism start and stays? Where patriotism rise and end in ashes over course of human evolution?
NG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnn9mSGBmso
thank you CHOEKYI LODROE
#161
O my Shugden!
I didn’t expect this. What a mess?
Doyal follower @ 161:
I detest all your posting.
The fact that Dogyal followers welcomed Norwegian government not meeting His Holiness the Dalai Lama , you have clearly shown where your loyalty is: with CHINA.
I believe in Rangzen. But, despite political difference in my opinion with His Holiness, His Holiness the Dalai Lama represents Tibetan nation. He is my leader.
I consider myself an open minded person and have never used the word Dogyal, ( Shugden is the word Dogyal followers desired), but I have started using it now, when I saw that you folks are clearly with PRC.
I have one word for all of you: Shame on you.
Despite all your allegations, you guys know that there is no religious persecution in exile community.
Recall how Doygal followers and suspected Chinese agent murdered our beloved teacher and two of his student at the Buddhist Dialectics in Dharamsala.
I am a Rangzen advocate and I will never ally with anyone that is out to undermine my nation. You guys are crazier than U-may-lam people.
This will be my last post.
I was seriously hoping Whiteiscolour would write something positive, thinking that there must somethings that people like me don’t know.
I
Due to last year firing of NGABO jigme la from RFA, congress has recently passed a resolution to change the dysfunctional Broadcasting board of governors.
They r changing a lot administration and good things are coming on the way.
Justice and truth always prevail!
shuggies- Losers pathetically looking for sympathy and support and same time deviously hacking people’s computers. energy suckers and vampires.
why you looking for acceptance and approval? you already doing your own thing by sticking to your relative truth of so called “purity of teachings” . how can people show acceptance for a group that doesn’t believe in the universal truth of one source and one energy?
Hoping great,doing nothing, get nothing result. you will not able to win Rangzen by writing some essay to create a controversy among Tibetan peoples
Jamyangla,
Keep writing. Your one is not a voice in the wilderness. Many educated tibetans find your pieces relevant and honest. If your writing makes some people uncomfortable, it is because they find their hypocrisy and self interest driven agenda exposed. Truth is power.
No Tibetans shun ambition of Rangzen. Every Tibetans feel the same that they are not Chinese and Tibet is not part of China. If it is an option undoubtedly Rangzen would be number one choice of every Tibetan people.
Middle way approach is some sort of last-ditch effort by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to save Tibetan culture and Tibetan identity.
I have asked repeatedly to the die-hard Rangzen supporters, how can we achieve Rangzen? what is the possibilities? What are the strategic plans of Rangzen? So far I heard nothing but the criticism of MWA. China’s claim of Tibet is not just governmental level. Almost every individual Chinese think that Tibet is part of China and Tibetan are Chinese. China will not listen about Rangzen and we have no ability to fight for it.
Some people here want to know what is Lobsang Sangye and CTA have done in the last few years. Let me sum it up. These folks are doing their best whatever they can and I have faith in them.
Most of our current top officials did not come from some sort of monastic educational background. They are educated in some of the well respected schools in the various countries that includes recently acquired MP, Wangpo Tethong from Swiss. If any one of you here think can do better job than CTA door is open and I am willing to vote for you.
Phuntsok Wangyal la was a true hero of Tibet. I just love him.
Choekyi Lodroe
Lobsang Sangye dedicated himself to work for people of Tibet instead of making his own living just like you and I and that is more than praise worthy for all the numbers you mentioned.
No. he is getting paid. It’s a job like any other. Only he wants the Tibetan communities to spend money on motorcades when he arrives.
Lobsang sangey gave up nothing. His reserach tenure has to be renewed every year and that too by a chinese org. He paid off his loan just before he took office, almost a quarter of a million. And one wonders how much more that people are not aware of at the moment. He is the Manchurian Candidate. If you don’t know what that means, look it up.
hahaha the Manchurian Candidate. Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. I am partial to conspiracy theories revolving around Fu Manchu mustache. I know, its so hairy.
Doctor Lobsang Sangay la really need to go back to Harvard and enroll in an English major course there because I don’t know how much I can take of him butcher the English language with atrocious grammatical constructions and a habitual tendency toward superfluous verbiage.
Its weird, at times, even His Holiness speaks better English than our Harvard educated PM.
Exhibit A.
To the question of “Is it possible to have a two party system in exile government?
Lobsang Sangay Answer:
“Democracy produce speech, I said it, I don’t remember decision yet on that back on a Tibetan administration we are called. Now, to say that, we have democracy, we have to have political parties, yes, some political scientists say that, others might disagree.”
“Now I really don’t want do do do, classic definition but DEMO-INCRUSTY means, people’s power! People were given right to vote, and they vote. Other than that, whether you have to have party or not.”
“Again, you know, its a, a, its a, its been debated, and most important, its up to the people , to have parties or not. Because a, one definition of Tibetan community in exile is our democracy is a Party-less Democracy.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbqLLnG2r0g
Whiteiscolour,
Thanks for initiating debate on achievements of Sikyong Lobsang Sangay.
“Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people”
Eleanor Roosevelt
What is the Sikyong doing towards education in exile – now that he is armed with a high degree from a prestigious university? I hope it includes ALL aspects of a student’s education. That brings to mind a much used terminology from Dhasa exile – HOLISTIC. Is he willing enough to clean up some of the unhealthy aspects? I will consider it an important achievement if he takes firm & strong actions and not cave into being a people pleaser for popular ratings.
He must know that this is one of the MOST important departments to take ownership of this portfolio.
hole-i-stick
Lobsang Sangay: The Hanchurian Candidate.
@ Whiteiscolour
“Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a close resemblance to the first”
Whiteiscolour:
You took my bait @ 177 and crowed on the top of your voice the following in your post above:
“Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people” Eleanor Roosevelt
Now that you claimed to be ” Great Minds” interested only in discussing ideas, against us ” average and small minded folks “, let us all see how your
” great mind “‘s ” big ideas” measure up to your tall claim!
Dharamsala is filled with talks about how Sikyong Lobsang Sangay’s cupboard is over following with skeletons that he has been desperating calling his girl friend in N.Y. to rent an industrial style storage to hold his skeletons.
We won’t be able to bring out everything at this point to protect our colleagues in Dharamsala. But we will bring at once scandal a day for the next one week. Stay tune and lets have some discussion specially with ” the great minds”aka whiteiscolour(s) of the blog. You are welcome!
Correction: I meant overflowing. I also meant one scandal/story a day for next one week.
George W Bush is known for saying lot of stupid things. All his mis-quotes are called Bushism. To be begin with here is first stupid quote from our idiotic Sikyong.
He has said not once but several times to several people the following:
” Tibetan girls all over are so enamored with me that if they were to choose to get a ” Chak-wang ” ( blessing with hands) from a high lama or to shake my hand, most of them will choose to shake my hand. I am that popular now.”
It is not made up. It came straight from horse’s mouth himself. So you be the judge. Where is the humility ? Where is the trace of even basic Tibetan quality ? This is our Dear Leader!
Do I see any discussions about ideas? Not yet!
Do i see any reason to continue with any meaningful discussion on the most important topic of Tibet Rangzen /middleway without first tackling the untrustworthiness and ineffectiveness of our leader? No!
#186 Pasangla
Our leader Sikyong is very much worthy. The decade or so spent @ harvard – is a huge investment – ‘worth’ lots & lots. I hope one day he will lead a fact finding delegation to our HOMELAND; in the meantime he has been on many fact finding visits to settlements – many in remote unchartered areas – & this has been a huge source of good pride among the peoples.
People who do not see the immeasurable contribution of His Holiness Dalai Lama to Tibet as a society will never see any positive contribution by other fellow Tibetan leaders. Attacking CTA and its leaders is Not a idea, is Not a strategic plan and is Not a mind of great person. Its rather throwing dust on your own face. Where is the great idea for achieving Rangzen? Where is the strategic plan for Rangzen?
WHAT DREAMS MAY COME is worried about Lobsang Sangye’s English rather than his Tibetan. His English is more than good enough to do his job. That’s all it matters.
OPEN YOUR EYES Takes Lobsang Sangye’s joke to define his personality. At the same time he brings George W Bush’s story to insult our leader Lobsang Sangye. This is like cutting the hand that feeds you. George W Bush won two term US presidency, met with His Holiness numerous times, offered Congressional Gold Medal to His Holiness during his presidency, his father Bush helped Tibetan society by bringing one thousand Tibetans to US which may have entailed benefits to many of you and your family members. We all owe Bush family personally.
What did your role model Obama did to Tibetan people or to Tibetan cause? None. I don’t even remember last time Obama talked about human rights issue in Tibet. He even refused to meet His holiness until he was pressured.
So, since Lobsang Sangey wants to be the Obama of China, we can expect the same performance from him, whiteiscolor.
presentation of the Congressional Gold medal was pushed forward by people like Nancy Pelosi and late Tom Lantos. It was in the works before GWB was in power. What president wouldn’t sign that when it was put under his nose to sign. As for seeing His HOliness at the white house by presidents: What came of it? We need support for Tibetans in Tibet. Not for magnification of those of is in exile and our social and economic agenda.
SAD EYES
Do you think China is protesting for nothing against any world leaders whenever His Holiness the Dalai Lama is scheduled to meet them?
Did you see Mr. Bush during the medal ceremony and his speech? That is significant support from the president. Ceremony could have taken place without president? I am sure Mr. Obama would have missed the ceremony if he were the president.
The importance of an occassion does not rest on whether or not China protests. It should be based on what was accomplished. China is easily offended and will protest even if an ant burps in their direction. That does not mean the ant-burp is significant.
As for the second part of the question: Only Obama will know the answer. Otherwise it is mere conjecture.
Since coming to exile, I think For HHDL personally it was the best. He was such a known leader in the world regardless of people taking serious him or not. But for the cause of Tibet, it failed immensely.
In order for us have to have serious dialogue, we have to face china but on that note it is disaster.The purpose of coming out reincarnation is to further take the task from the thirteen, but it is still fill in the blanks.
Remember all these medals and honor are not bestowed by President voluntarily. It is from the Joint Tibetans like Gyari Rinpoche who lobby tirelessly for HHDL with staff of congress and other officials.
People need to know the importance of grass root level task takers. Now adays This is hard. When it is of no use they kick whatever they want and I personally think that that is not fair. Law of Karma??? as we believe as always there. One needs to appreciate.
Somebody asked me if dalai Lama is a god who is all knowing. I didn’t how to answer that question.
How would you answer that question?
President George Bush & his sort consider communism & it’s dictatorship as ‘evil’. They see HHDL and Tibet as being persecuted by CCP; so the empathy and warmth extended to HHDL is not in question. Mr. Bush as a person is a straight shooter and a bit of a ‘bring it on’ kind of a guy. He won’t worry too much about hurting ‘people’s feelings’; especially the wrong people’s feelings. Same goes for the Congress representative vs. Libby Lu in the rfa scandal –- remember? it shows what they stand for.
President Obama I guess is just too cautious – worried about sending wrong signals?
Any way I guess Tibet Lobby in Washington is doing their best?
Tenzin-la,
I can agree with the gist of your arguement. But invoking ” law of karma” with regard to Lodi Gyari is bit ironic.
When you talk about Lodi Gyari, I think law of karma is very much at work!!!
No question about it.
Many of us vividly remember, whenever it was convenient, Lodi Gyari and his sycophants, including those like media, Tseten Wangchuk, Gen. Namgyal Shastri-la and all, would go to any extend to beat JN and others using Dalai Lama as a big stick, all the while, all they think is 2 for me, one for Tibet.
The sad part of story is that, earlier, it was Gyari and his courtiers who manipulated Gaden Podrang, now it is Lobsang Sangay and Kalden Lodroe, again all for personal gain, in the name of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
The stakes have also gone up, with the two above, it is all for us and Tibetan cause can go to dog. Keep watching. I and my family combined have in total served Tibetan government in exile for more than 50 years. All with full dedication. No regrets for doing one’s own part and will do it again, calls become urgent.
I have got to watch all the big players in Tibetan government very closely. In all my years, I have never seen a big liar than Lodi Gyari. I think with him law of karma has finally worked its way.
But what do we have ? A bigger liar in Lobsang Sangay. It is not out of jealously or hatred, I make this allegation. I interact with these liars all the time.
They don’t care what certain number of people like me think of them. They are very comfortable in their skin as long as they are able to fool the Tibetan public at large. It is all that matters. It can really make a plot of a good movie, when all told.
Lobsang Sangay is here to out do Lodi Gyari and I pray that law of karma should not delay before this “han-churian” as someone rightly called him above, destroy our cause completely.
I have never seen a guy who is so crazy about money, power and women like him. I wish I am wrong, but I am not.
Lobsang Sangye went to Dharamsala to make money, power and woman. That is ironic to say the least. Right now I make more money than Lobsang Sangye in North America.
Jamyang Norbu la himself choose to seat on the other-side of the aisle. When you touch water you get wet. You can’t blame the water.
whiteiscolour: Did a mysterious someone give you a quarter-million dollars to pay off your mortgage, like Sikyong la got?
Talk about corrupt, it’s there in black and white in the documents posted online, and Sikyong la is too afraid to give an explanation of where he got the money.
Whiteiscolor is someone whom we call the ‘company man’ and he will protect LS or Zabdhong Rinpoche or Gyari or whatever. Even if he saw them raping someone, he will find a way to justify it or make excuses for it. The same way we do with Rinpches. They can’t do nothing wrong and if they did, it is on purpose. With that kind of system, the state is bound to fail because the one in power is incapable of doing anything wrong and therefore has no repercussions or no feedback on their performance. That is the reason why we are in exile to begin with.
MANY many ‘idealize’; IDENTIFY or empathize with Lobsang Sangay’s narrative. Some Rangzenwallas & many Umelamwallahs have this commonality.
Many will choose to just ignore the unfavorable stories – this is what I believe.
I think the Sikyong fancies himself as some kind of next Bill Clinton with a Monica Lewinsky scandal. But sorry to say I heard many girls go ” ewwwwwwww.” when i joke that tSikyong likes young gals. They say that he is more suited for tacky behenjis.
Hi
Thanks Jamyang, for the wonderful article I just read, on how tibetans really missing the important trick in their fight with China!!
I really didn’t understand why the Tibetans seems so unintrested in the southeast asian fight with china..why didn’t they use it as part of their struggle with China??
when I just go around tibetans blogs, I never see any one writing about the recent war between China and Vietnam, which makes headline every where in the world, even countries very far from China, report this news!!! why tibetans not!!
even countries have less problems with China, than Tibet, such as Japan, Taiwan, Philippines
all have express support for Vietnam!!! either by people or government
filipino support Vietnam
http://www.voanews.com/content/filipinos-join-vietnamese-anti-china-protests/1915785.html
Taiwanese support Vietnam
http://unified-front-against-china.blogspot.tw/2014/05/taiwanese-people-support-vietnam.html
Japan has release statment condemned Chinese government recent move against Vietnam..even ASEAN has condemned China, who many governments among them, have very good relations with China
while neither tibetan government in exile,, nor tibetans NGO or orgnization, or protest, has release any statement showing support to vietnam, or condemen China as nothing happen!!!
its not hard, if you just carry some support stetements, and send it to Vietnamese embassy in india, to show support and solidarity, you will gain the sympathy of both vietnamese people and government!!!
if you don’t exploit the incidents, then you won’t win!!! I didn’t mean to offend tibetans here..I just speak from the reality, and the law of success for issues!!! thats all
Thanks
The condemnation of Phunwang may bring some pacification to the turbulent mind of those who hate him due to known as well as unknown reasons. However, except for whatever the psychedelic pacification, no productive outcome is going to manifest, because the condemnation is postmortem. It is like drumming without a dancer, or dancing on the corpse. One could have condemned him and stormed him with words of denunciation when he was living his heydays. His books have appeared in the global market long before his death. The reviews could have been written already then, challenging (or hatefully rebuking) his understandings of Science and Geology. As much as the critics have the right to criticise, so do the thinkers to counter debate. He might have reacted and located the area where the root of disagreement is laying.
Sadly, this interaction can no longer happen, because he has entered the state of absolute “equanimity” (as a Buddhist might call it), the state where one is beyond the effect of sensational as well as non sensational frictions. He is not only “gone”, but is “gone beyond”. Mind you, he is “non returner”. No tulku is coming. So he is gone for ever. Om mani padme hum!
Hotmail. Nobody wanted to bother about Phuwang until CTA decided to grovel and lick his boots. Know the difference. Otherwise, who in their right mind would consider him a national hero?
http://bit.ly/1h0J1JP
http://internationalshugdencommunity.com/dalai-lama-wanted-list/
Now even the Tibetans are joining the rank and file of China apologist and tries to whitewash the Chinese crimes in Tibet. In the past Apologist included only countries who share similar political philosophy and greedy Western corporation.
The new list even includes Western universities, media.
Karze la: the ‘China apologists’ you speak of now maybe includes our very own CTA leadership. This TPR article shows that even the Middle Way has been so watered down that it is now pretty much meaningless
http://www.tibetanpoliticalreview.org/editorials/apartial-middlewaycampaignislaunchedindharamsala
If this is all true, then what are we even fighting for? Why don’t we just go back to Tibet and join the Communists party or else give up?
We are waiting for the Jamyang la’s comments more on this.
Now dharamsala is the biggest practical joke. Every dicerning tibetan knows about its various manipulation and scheming but that laughter is for now confined within the four walls.
I remember that one day, when they let me out for exercise, I found a small, shiny black pea on the ground. It has probably been carried into the prison yard by the wind. Because it was beautiful, I picked it up and secretly kept it.
It became a precious personal possession for me, a victory over the system, and I made every effort to hide it from the guards. Sometimes I hid it in my palm and sometimes under my tongue if I had to go out of the cell.
Amazingly, I succeeded in keeping it for three or four years, and was happy and even proud that I had been able to hide something from their constant searching. Eventually, however, they found the pea and took it away. I was heartbroken and blamed myself.
In retrospect I know it was foolish to blame myself, but at the time I wasn’t really in my right mind.
Bapa Phuntsog (9y into 18y CCP solitary imprisonment)
A Tibetan Revolutionary- Goldstein.
who decides whose a traitor and whose not? you are possibly erecting another hegemonic discursive mosntrosity by using such labels, Baba was a man who thought differently, and had a perspective which was different based on a certain praxis of ideas. Its an intellectual othering which is taking place here and that is sad!
@NG From your post I can discern that you either a cadre or Chinese posing as Tibetan.
If you are Tibetan how could to say that Tibetans and Chinese occupation forces have been coexisting peacefully.
Even the Chinese tourists have documented with photos with armed Chinese soldier on every rooftops or any vantage point. How could you be so ignorant to lie deliberately.
For your info I am posting the link to the documented hundreds of photos posted by Chinese on micorblogs.
http://www.savetibet.org/newsroom/has-life-here-always-been-like-this/