Some exile Tibetans are angry with Sikyong candidate Lukar Jam Atsok for criticizing HH’s policies. He has not only been attacked in speech and writing but also on video, in one of which the accuser bursts into tears and dramatically sobs out his condemnation.
A specific accusation against Lukar is that he once talked about His Holiness as “la-gyen” or the “old lama”. Of course, this is not the usual way to refer to the Dalai Lama, and it is not exactly respectful, but on the other hand it is also definitely not hostile. One might even say Lukar’s la-gyen reference is affectionate, in an informal sort of way. Like Englishmen (of yesteryear) calling each other “old boy” or “old chap”. Of course older Tibetans would say that Lukar Jam was being too forward, in a socially inappropriate way (nangtsa tsa drapa), and perhaps they have a point.
But we should bear in mind that Lukar Jam does not come from the honorific filled world of old Lhasa, or the “culturally subservient” world of exile Tibetans where children are trained from infancy to sing nursery rhymes in praise of His Holiness. Lukar Jam was a nomad boy from Chabcha, playing with sheep, and probably singing paeans to Chairman Mao in his local elementary school.
We should also never lose sight of the fact that after his first escape to India in 1991, Lukar Jam returned home to Amdo with as many copies of the Dalai Lama’s My Land and My People as he could carry, a videotape of a speech the Dalai Lama made when he accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 and human rights documents including some sixty copies of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
It was very dangerous thing to do but Lukar explains: “I carried the books and videotape home because people, especially older people, wanted to see the Dalai Lama. They often prayed they would see him in Tibet. I knew the books and tape would bring happiness to them. Tibetans don’t know about the Universal Declaration, and I thought that if I distributed copies it might help them to understand.” Perhaps Lukar’s critics should ask themselves if they had ever taken such a risk on the Dalai Lama’s behalf?
Lukar Jam was arrested a year later, for this and for other crimes against the state. The Haixi Intermediate People’s Court sentenced Lukhar Jam to an eight-year term for “espionage” and ten more years for “organizing and leading a counterrevolutionary clique.” The full account of Lukar’s and his friends Tsegon Gyal and Namlo Yak dangerous undertakings for the cause of Tibetan freedom is in the detailed Human Rights Watch report I have linked here. For those few exiles spreading the rumor that Lukar was arrested for stealing a yak, it should be pointed out that CTA-backed Tibetan Center for Human Rights & Democracy at Gangchen Kyisong (TCHRD) in their publication of November 1997 caries a Profile Article “Sentenced to 17 Years for Espionage” which makes it clear that Lukar Jam was charged with “endangering national security”, and being a spy for an “external espionage organization” (almost certainly the Tibetan government in exile).
In prison he underwent unceasing and relentless interrogation, sleep deprivation, starvation rations, painfully tight handcuffs and leg shackles, and endless beatings “I was beaten and tortured with every kind of technique. They used cattle prods. My body swelled so much that my pants tore when I tried to put them on, but they didn’t give me new ones.” Lukar was soon seriously ill and rapidly lost weight. His abdomen became painfully distended and he developed a serious lung disorder. After four years in prison he was clearly dying. The prefectural hospital told the high court that Lukhar Jam was beyond their help, and there was no hope of him recovering. The chief of the detention center refused to take responsibility if Lukar Jam died in prison. After much nightmarish bureaucratic wrangling he was granted medical parole, if his family paid all his medical expenses. Lukar was in prison for fours years. When he was finally released, he could not stand, much less walk, unaided. He weighed 37 kgs (81 lbs). This is somewhat better than Holocaust survivors, whose average weight was around 60 lbs. The Americans who survived the Bataan “Death March” and Japanese POW camps, the “walking skeletons”, were said on average to weigh about 90 lbs.
The above photograph was taken a few months after he had put on a little weight. When someone posted it on Facebook one idiot commented that the photograph was faked because the face and neck looked darker than the body. I posted a reply where I noted that in such photographs the face and neck are usually darker as they are more exposed to the sun than the torso which is usually covered with a shirt or jacket. Someone else remarked that Lukar Jam’s imprisonment had happened a long time ago and that he and his supporters should get over it. Lukar himself does not talk much about his prison experience. If you’ve listened to his campaign speeches you’ll note that he practically makes no reference to it at all. I think I know why.
These days when trendy liberal types in the West talk about overcoming tragedy and loss, they insist on using the facile word “closure.” Whether it’s the death of a loved one, a national catastrophe, or more often than not, a divorce, closure is supposed to be what we need to heal and get on with our lives. But if you survive something truly horrendous, the reality is that there is no such thing as closure. Nightmares never end in the real world.
Some years ago (2010, I think it was) I was at a talk given by two of (the fourteen) “singing nuns of Drapchi ” who in prison secretly recorded songs that described their suffering in prison, demanded freedom for Tibet and praised the Dalai Lama. Ngawang Sangdrol and Choeying Kunsang, told their harrowing story to a young audience of largely SFT members, and quietly described the horrendous price they paid for their defiance of Chinese authority. At the conclusion of the talk someone asked this question. “Have you managed to get over it all? Do you sometimes remember your terrible experience in prison?”
I think it was Choeying la who replied, in a voice so soft that it was barely audible: “Every night when I fall asleep I dream of being back in prison.” My blood ran cold.
This is why I feel Lukar Jam would make a good leader. There is no “closure” for him on this most vital of issues. He will never forget what the Chinese did to him, and by extension what they did to Tibet.
Samdhong Rinpoche may complain to the Indian press about new-arrivals from Tibet being violent, but I think that new arrivals, especially political prisoners, could make an invaluable contribution to exile politics with their hard-earned experience of suffering under the Chinese. Hence I have no hesitation in saying that it is criminal, I repeat, criminal of CTA officials to try and reeducate (sometimes even pressure) arriving political prisoners in Dharamshala, to give up their commitment to the cause for which they were tortured and incarcerated, and instead adopt and advocate the official policy that Tibet should be part of the PRC.
I also believe that Tibetan political prisoners do not merely exist to be trotted around the corridors of the US Congress or the European Union to drum-up more funding for the CTA or ICT; and that our duty to them does not somehow become fulfilled when we sing their praises as “heroes” and arrange an audience or two for them with the Dalai Lama. It is vital for us to recognize that these are individuals, unique individuals with a political vision that most of us in exile have lost a long time ago. It is that political vision and experience, and their courage and commitment to stand up and speak out for it which now makes the likes of Lukar Jam, and also Ngawang Sangdrol, Golok Jigme, Phuntsok Wangchuk, Choeying Kunsang and many other prisoners of conscience the ideal leaders for the Tibetan struggle in this darkest moment in our long history.
As always Jamyang Norbu la writes with no mincing of words and not being afraid of what others may think because of his conviction and patriotism for his homeland.
Hello Jamyang, to make it more clear, it is not only he said La Gyen but in the more recent days, he began to say H.H the Dala Lama is Gyal Tsong Pa, traitor publicly. How can we bear nd digest all these basless criticism to His Holiness and Exile government or administration.
I can gaurantee that the Shugten party and the Chinese government will soon use him and his followers to instigate disunity among Tibetans.
Please show him some right path instead of leading to a wrong path. There is no problem of having a Rangzen view. I personally respect to all the Rangzenpas ans specially to the TYC.
Pema la can you show me the link to the accusation by Lukar Jam? BTW, if you watch the clip below and go to 31.18 minutes, you won’t be surprised to see that His Holiness calls himself a some kind of Gyal Tsong Pa although in a light way.
So don’t panic when HH has no qualms over it.
http://youtu.be/ulGMS0HN1L4
Thank you very much Jamyang Norbu La.
I immediately remember of one thing. When we were secret detention in Qinghai in Amdo. The Chinese Communist spy officers in order to concealed our politic identities, they are spread “we are stealing yaks” to other inmates.
I think this voice from Chinese spy and they don’t want to Lukar Jam become Sykong and they are fear of Rangzan will be lead Tibet issue.
Lukar Jam scored political points by using Dalai Lama! Did he really want few old men and women in his village to see Dalai Lama or he had ulterior motives? Every coin has two faces, Lukar’s action should not be different either! Since Lukar talked about our much self created about independence, Lukar had an easy pass with claps and the guy’s statement was never scrutinized according historical fact!
NG
Hey Pema la,
I find your criticisms baseless, and weak in understanding. A dedicated, and able man like Lukar Jam loves and cares for his country and the Dalai Lama more than you can ever imagine. I hope you understand that Mr Lukar Jam is not a cheap person, and he will NOT be used by the Chinese Communist Party, or the Shugden dogs. Mr Lukar Jam is an asset to us Tibetans. Hence, we must treat a person like him with utmost respect and support.
This is very disappointing in our exile society of minimising a person who suffered & suffering for our nation. It looks like there are so many who prefer to those who suffered & suffering for enlightenment instead of nation. We are long time considered the cannibalise by sanctuary refugee in our kingdom. There are many who loves to eat meat but do not wants to kill the animal which is hypocrisy. My prostration only to those who are in pure engagement in the trace Buddha & as well as to the nation…
Lukar Jam becoming Sikyong is a shameful and bashful to all the Tibetans. He doesn’t have any quality to be a Sikyong, political leader of Central Tibetans Administration. He have a quality to create disunity and dividing Tibetab people. He have a qulity to make the Chinese leaders happy.
hi,
may b I’m immature to comment on this matter. but I feel Lukar Jam should first start up as a minister in the tib. parliament. not all triumphant political prisoner should be valued to be a good PM candidate. I think he should get some western education too. His chosen path resonates a good hope and strong patriotism… Rangzen, so much a word which has lived our hopes from thousand deaths and We salute his vigor and path. but we recommend him to prescribe us some proofs. Some reality drama to live our hopes and will in him.
that’s all. I am reading ur article for the first time and really appreciate the way you have the ability to portray what you want to. great…
བླ་རྒན་ LA-RGAN should not be translated as ‘old Lama’. It’s a misinterpretation and is misunderstanding the context and real meaning of the reference Lukar Jam made. The proper translation and the meaning I think conveyed by the user is ‘Senior Lama’. More appropriately, when referring to the Dalai Lama, it means ‘Most senior Lama’ which is a very appropriate term. The only criticism if it warrants one is that it is a term used by a non-religious person and is not reverential. We Tibetans call the Pope ‘Yishu Largan’ in the same way.
Also, the Tibetan word ‘rgan’ carries another meaning which is ‘teacher’.
Perhaps the best context of what he meant can be described by the person himself. However, I feel, the way he narrated, the tone, of his reference to HHDL makes a lot of difference. ofcourse, all the world revers our one and only Lama, then why Lukar la has so much tib word shortage, that he sent half of our population into dilemma about his actual reference.
ofcourse, his exercise of free speech and free candidacy in this proper democracy is HHDL’s vision and gift to us. and we are all sensitive people in most sensitive situation. Kindly, he should take the honour to elaborate and define his proper reverence to HHDL.
The worst thing in our society is that peopl can not get the real meaning of democracy. In a democracy, any one can point out the mistake and any one could be make mistake so why astonish even luka jam point out some mistake. We should thank him for being a brave enough to point out and share his view instead hitting hammer on his head.
Tenzin @ 9
In comparsion to our present Sikyong Lobsang Sangay Lukar Jam is much more qualified and competent to become the Sikyong. Both in terms of character and competency and yes, even education Lukar Jam is more deserving to be our Sikyong. One can acquire the art and skill of politicking but one cannot learn certain inherent leadership qualities. Lukar Jam possess both the leadership qualities as well as he seems a very hands on kind of person.
btw, some people refer to their wife lovingly as ngen ma rgyen. so LAr gyen is like a term of endearment.
@passang
in talking about reference, I could also refer Lukar as phar-gyen. but in, formal talks and speeches, this would be considered coarse. why he should be called largyen, why not la chen… kudhun???
why v should play the emperor with the clothes over here.? It’s clear, he has poor language reference. and such political sickness will not be tolerated. HHDL is our only saviour, he should start his speech with a prayer for HHDL.
In the West if you refer somebody knowingly with Mr. instead of Dr. is considered disrespectful or inappropriate. There has to be a reason why the individual is referred by Mr. instead of Dr. So there has to be reason why Lukar Jam called Dalai Lama Largen.
From the perspective of non-religious sense nobody is immune from error. Many of Albert Einstein’s theory are proven wrong. But no scientist communities around the world are bashing Albert Einstein because he made errors. Albert Einstein is honored as one of the greatest scientist ever lived around the world. To be the greatest you don’t have to be a perfect human being. This is in response to Lukar Jams question “can Dalai Lama make mistake?”
Now if anybody has a good reason why Dalai Lama should be criticized based on rationale ground. Give me one piece at a time and I will let you know where you stand.
One of the saddest thing I am experiencing these days in social media is that if somebody criticizes Dalai Lama irrespective of legitimacy the person is considered some sort of brave, advocacy of democracy and free speech. Is our society becoming insane? This is a huge victory for China. Thanks for so called Rangzen Walas and atheist Tibetans. Soon China doesn’t need to print White Paper Book any more.
Clarification on Jam’s controversial བླ་རྒན་ , As an ethnic Tibetan who does not fall under the political establishment at Lhasa, we do, have a sort of religious connection to the person under the name title Dalai Lama, so we usually call him རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་། we don’t use other lhasan centric elitist honorific terms and title. Having said this, we never use བླ་རྒན་ for an incarnate lama, we call it ཨ་ལཊ་ This title is reserved for any considered incarnate lamas, but རྒྱལ་བ་རིན་པོ is reserved only for the person of the Dalai Lama. Maybe Jam’s part of Amdo is different as its gene pool much complexity due to trans ethnic marriages between Chinese, Mongols, Hui, Salar and so for. Hopefully, this will be a small education to much ignorant diaspora generation. Finally, why didnt you guys survey amdo people around your vicinity to dispel the myth created by Jam and his supporters regarding the derogatory terminology used by Jam even if its significance is so small. Or refer to a standard book where the term is used! It is this simple!
NG
Pema, what is your definition of unity? Are you talking about such unity where a group of leaders or a leader frame an ideology and then order subjects to follow pretty much like North Korea and China does? This is not going to work, my friend. Unity should be guided by respect for the diversity at the core and then work together for a larger cause. If we want to sustain movement in exile, we shouldn’t suffocate ourselves with a particular ideology or dogma. Only unity in diversity will survive our movement for long.
Lukar Can call anyone anything..but when one cannot think before flapping his lips it shows the quality of the Person he Is..the guy has nothing but semshug and tbats Just not enough.every tenzin and tsering carries the dame semshug.
White, What are you talking about? “Many of Albert Einstein’s theories are proven wrong?” Rubbish. 100 years on Albert Einstein has been proven absolutely right. Einstein’s theory of general relativity is one of the most beautiful pieces of scientific work in history. Even though he wasn’t completely convinced by the theory of quantum mechanics, his work also laid down the foundation for modern quantum mechanics.
@White: Which theory of Einstein was proven wrong – be specific. Who proved his theory wrong. You always have an incoherent arguments just for the sake of argument.
Einstein is the greatest scientist of the 20th century. I am not aware of such a thing on Einstein.
i am just looking forward to the results of the elctions next year and see what kind of response the people in exile give and what will be the message sent to those tibetans still living under chinese rule. nice to see some debate every now and then.
White is the type of person who thinks he/she is pretty intelligent and feels that gives him the license to make shit up. Next he will say Darwinian theory of evolution has been proven wrong like that pompous stuttering fool Dr.zakir Naik. Tibetans need to stop fitting facts to butter one’s position instead of looking at facts and drawing conclusions from that.
Who gives a flying baby bottom what Lukar called his holiness? He is not fighting the election with his holiness. Chinese calls him much much worse and you middlepathers are dying to be part of the great motherland, some even going as far to carry Chinese flag or questioning the validity of Tibet nation. So don’t be a hypocrite please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgpqspy0gLI
Excerpt of Lukar comment on Gyalwang Rinpoche, Dolgyal, Rangzen, Democr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgpqspy0gLI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YuGAkyBjn0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-bRpM2MgrI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzliZlx_Tg
According to Darwinian Theory, Tibetan diaspora be gone in a matter of less than a century through cultural and genetic assimilation and producing hybrids can no longer be called a full Tibetan and who don’t share anything in common with Tibetans in Tibet apart from “once upon a time, my half grandparent…,,,” story!
NG
Every Tibetan must ask him or herself these questions:
Do you want Tibet to be part of China?
Do want Tibet to be governed by the Chinese Communist Party?
Do you want the PLA in Tibet?
If your answer is no to all or any of the questions then you don’t believe in the current MWA policy. If you answered yes to all questions then by all means support MWA. Bur remember in 2010 the CTA said Tibetans must not use His Holiness’ name to justify, support or defend MWA. So make your arguments for MWA without mentioning His Holiness if you can.
And if you answered no to all questions then please vote for Lukar Jam in the primaries & final elections. He is the only Sikyong candidate who wants to restore Tibet’s independence and return Tibet to the Tibetans.
Some people in this day and age, in spite of education and much exposure still seems to be stuck in the primitive mode of thinking. Saying things like China must be laughing at us for this display of differing (not disunity) political opinion amongst exiled Tibetans. Who cares what China thinks ? Actually China will feel more threatened if they see a robust political engagement amongst exile Tibetans and no, its not our differences of political views that will embolden China. If anything, if we are like Sheep that need to be herded, China will stake all the more claim to control us Sheep who don’t know any better.
And please do we really need to perpetuate this myth of us Tibetans being calm and peaceful always. We just have to be ourselves and if that happens to be truly calm and peaceful than thats wonderful. But dont put everyone in the same box.
This is to my surprise. Do modern scientists agree with everything Einstein said or thought? This is one example during his time, after Hubble discovered that the universe was expanding, Einstein called the cosmological constant his “greatest blunder.” Einstein was also attributed for being wrong side of the quantum mechanics theory when he was debating with Bohr. There are books talking about Einstein’s Mistakes. I hope you guys are not saying Einstein is a perfect human being or he is always right. If this is your position I have nothing to debate.
I was waiting at the main gate of our monastery , Trangu Vajra Vidya Institute Sarnath Varanasi in 1999. When His Holiness the Dalai Lama steped out of his car to the opening ceremony of our monastery, our Rinpoche ( Very Venerable Khenchen Trangu Rinpoche) greeted HH with Khatak in hands and the first words His Holiness said to our Rinpoche was ( jokingly) ” རླ་རྒན་གྱིས་དགོན་པ་འཛིགས་པོ་བཞེང་འདུག་ཏ་་་་་གྲྭ་པ་ཚོ་ལ་ཁ་ལག་ཡག་པོ་སྤྲོད་ཀྱི་ཡོད་པས་?
So I don’t think it’s a bad word to use..
U hurt 6million tibetan people like shugden group so… if someone ask me, would u like to vote lukar jam or u want to die.. i will choose .. i will die… but m not going to vote for this man…
Even if Lukar had used the word Gyaltsongpa, technically he is correct in the sense that MWA is a form of surrender and acceptance of the occupier’s rule,Which pretty much elminates the possibility of ever reviving Tibet as a nation. And use of such labelling is not uncommon when writing political polemics. It may sound a bit harsh but it is not far from the truth, I am sorry.
The real worry for us is that prominent flag bearers of MWA like Samdong and Penpa Tsering and their supporters have lately started insisting that a clear line should be drawn between those who support MWA and those who support Rangzen. They are forcing the majority of Tibetans to make the choice of either supporting MWA or Rangzen, thereby, creating divisions where none need to exist. And what is so enraging is that they are the same people who accuse Rangzen proponents of causing disunity. It is time to push back and let them know that we will not tolerate their bullying tactics.
Lukar Jam Gyallo!
Bhod Gyallo!
White wrote @ post no: 15 at line no: 6, the following:
” But no scientist communities around the world are bashing Albert Einstein because he made errors. Albert Einstein is honored as one of the greatest scientist ever lived around the world. ”
And in his crazy musing at post no: 28, this mental patient ask himself the following:
” Do modern scientists agree with everything Einstein said or thought? …Einstein WAS also attributed for being on the wrong side of the quantum mechanics theory…”
I think he should seriously take his meds.
People like him are almost certain to be holding some sort of position as board members of Tibetan Association by trying to be either close to His Holiness the Dalai Lama or always bringing His Holiness the Dalai Lama even in dispute over gambling losses to beat his opponent. People like him ‘ win ‘ not because they are RIGHT , but by bashing everyone as, enemy of religion and dharma.
It is always a good business for them. People like him does more disservice than help the reputation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
Since, he likes to quote out of context proverbs, the one quote that is most appropriate for the action of people like him goes something like:
” Thoe Ma-shey Kyen Shekyi Thoe Pa Lay/
Maw Ma-shey Kyen Shekyi Maw Na Ga”
The English translation is as follows:
” It is better to be criticized by someone, who really do not how to criticize/ Than to be praised by someone ,who do not know how to offer praise.”
In short, such is the uselessness of people like him. They undermine the stature of His Holiness the Dalai Lama by their portral of which makes His Holiness looks a narrow minded , intolerant leader, which He is not. The curse of our community is that we have plenty of people like him.
Lukar Jam and Sikyong? He is a CLOWN likewise Trump. Please Lukar Jam’s supporters, save your energy for your own good. GOD Bless Jamyang la and Lukar.
White. This is exactly what you wrote “Many of Albert Einstein’s theory are proven wrong.”Not that there are disagrements or differences as there will always be in such matters you wrote” MANY OF ALBERT EINSTEIN’S THEORY (SIC) ARE PROVEN WRONG”. Please tell us just three 3! of Einstein’s theories that have been proven wrong.
I am sure the Next comment Will be Einstein reincarnation is lukar jam..lol as if That has anythibg to do with sikyong.the Guy Is a Morón..dont know how to talk.
I’m ashamed at how we are so disorganised and the candidates propaganda are unclear to us.people need to do more research and vote for the best. We had HHDL as our political head, and we could trust him blindly. but not now. When all the wolves are playing the dirty politics and usually who have money and power wins. sikyong should be some one to whom we can look upto. someone who speaks our mind and work on tibet issue. He should work on our minds to support him fully in a path, he visions. He should learn to speak well of what he will do. avoid abuses. respect people’s religion and believe.
anormous semshug is most welcome. We lack it in our community. lukar has a bold voice. Rangzen is always Mesmerising, soothing. and truly only it can calm balm our thousand ridden, deep wounds. free tibet. hence.
CTA should engage White to write its white papers, I am sure it will be fictitious as the Chinese white paper on Tibet. White is like the muslim fundamentalist who can’t tolerate anything said of Alla. Attitude of white and ppl like him/her is no better talaban, ISIS etc. Think about that! His Holiness The Dalia Lama does not need to be defended by fanatics like you.
Bhod Rangzen and long live His Holiness!
Jamyang La’s preentation of Jukar Jam in the brightest possible light might do a world of good for his political campaingn to become the next Sikyong on his brave and timely Rangzzen stand. That said, it wouldn’t hurt anyone including Lukar Jam himself if he can see the wisdom and appropriateness of addressing the Dalai Lama with his age old legitimte title.
Lukar Jam is ir dire need of a helping hand if ever he became the Sikyong, and i can see no better person better placed than Jamyang La to help and guide him on the international platform. The duo would make a formidable team, a team that is capable of bringing back life and vigour to the dying ambers of Tibetan nationalism.
Dear Lukar Jam, this is not a line to say, “I told you so”,
But your long road was barricaded before you were born;
The honey trap was laid with Mao’s, “religion is poison”;
For our God, hears, sees, and speaks no evil of the empire.
Peace was offered, a treaty to live in harmony proposed,
Nine rounds of talk’s culminating in gross abuse and blame
And yet in collusion with super-powers, our offer too little.
So, Lukar Jam there’s only a handful rooting for your bid.
I warn you Lukar Jam we are in the internal rot phase
Eating up selves from within with accusations and allusions
The “MWP against Rangzen, Rangzen against His Holiness”
Honesty is not for Tibet or Tibetans, only show for injees.
Therefore, Lukar Jam do not be fooled by majority claims,
Tibet, Buddhism and “Doktsa Chicdee” are play of words;
A nasty board game of Chinese checkers: Mao’s legacy.
There’s no hope till someone shatters our glass ceiling.
And I give you A+ for audacity, bravery and courage;
A big thank you from me before they come to stone me.
Lukar Jam you, prophecy of great Gesar many dreamed of,
Live long, fight smart and vanquish the evil within our souls.
Very beautiful poem that took us to the core of the matter. Breathe of fresh air .
I can absolutely understand the emotion of the 3rd line of the last stanza:
” A big thank you from me before they come to stone me.”
I work with bunch of holy warrior – who seems to live in a dream -like state and think they are in pursuit of something higher than just a geographic area called Tibet!
Your line: ” I warn you Lukar Jam we are in the internal rot phase”
The rot started at the top around Samdhong Lama’ stewardship. The same arguement , we are not just fighting for geagraphic area but for the soul !
It is said when fish starts to rot, it smells worse at the top.
Still I believe in the Buddhist percept , which says, ” I fell seven times and stood up eight times.”
JN , thanks for providing a platform for democratic discussion. I compare your blog to the democracy wall of Dharamsala.
Lukar jam candidacy for sikyong Is more of a mockery to all highly qualified tibetan leader trained & educated in current environmennt..if not an insult.
Tall, I have a question for you.
1. Lobsang Sangay said, we are not fighting for independence nor do Tibetans demand any genuine autonomy, but are asking to live under China and are willing to accept Communist party rule. You do not have problem with that?
(China democracy activists are saying, what is this guy saying? Hong Kong activists are equally surprised and you do not have problem with this so -called educated and trained leader?)
In fact, if you listen to His Holiness the Dalai Lama, even His Holiness the Dalai Lama Himself seems to have lost faith and trust in Lobsang Sangay. During a teaching in Dharamsala few months back, His Holiness warned people from “smooth talkers with degrees from big university”.
He said: “when uneducated people lie to you, it gets exposed easily, but when these people with big degrees fool you, they fool you in a very sophiscated way ” and then laughed his usual full throated laugh. I kept thinking when His Holiness gave that advice to the people, He had none other than Lobsang Sangay in His mind. He is trying to warn people, but will our people understand Him?
The advice came amidst His teaching to group of Southeast Asian crowd at the end of teaching or one day before that. Just fact-check yourself by going to the source.
I will choose Lukar Jam any number of times over that what you called “highly qualified leader” ?. My … ( you know what I intend to say)
I am not interested in responding to White’s stupid comments, but I would like to share that ever since the discovery in the late 90s that the space is not only expanding but that the expansion rate is accelearsting, there is a consensus building among scientists that even Einstein’s so-called blunder, i.e. his “cosmological constant” may after all be right.
Jamyang la
This Einstein argument can go on with no end in sight and we have more important things to talk about that are relevant to the matter in hand right now. My message was no human is immune from error from the non-religious perspective that includes Einstein. People come up with their own experiments and stories to disprove even theory of relativity irrespective of legitimacy. One person here said even Dalai Lama’s 1989 Noble Peace Prize was politicized. There are many people claiming Einstein’s popularity was politicized rather than his actual achievement. Jamyang la I know who you are and I respect you as Rangzen activists and appreciate many things you have done for Tibet but I strongly disagree with your attitude towards Dalai Lama and CTA. Trust me I am not a serious religious person. Whatever I said here in this blog has nothing to do our traditional believe that His Holiness the Dalai Lama being emanation of Buddha Avalokiteshvara. I respect Dalai Lama as an extra ordinarily intelligent, rational, realistic human being and a leader who dedicated his entire life to the Tibetan cause.
Lukar Jam’s illegitimate criticism against Dalai Lama has a serous damaging effect without gaining anything in return. It disheartens Tibetan people inside and outside Tibet. It endorses enemy’s propaganda. It breaks out our unity. Lukar Jam can talk about Rangzen and how he is going to get it as much as he want to convince voters without insulting Dalai Lama but he has not much to talk about Rangzen and especially how he is going to get it, tactical plan.
White: you seems to be knowledgable at times but then swirl around the same line about criticism. How do you know it disheartened tibetan people from inside. Remember , as Mr.Jamyang la has written in the article, lukar jam went back to tibet and came back to India. He surely knows who is disheartening TIBETANS. I grew up in Tibet under chinese rule and latter part of your writing is not something new. I heard it from chinese official over and over again, breaks unity, endorse enemy’s propaganda. I am really sic to hear this over and over again in exile too. It just brings back my childhood memories and it is dispicable!
Please, I have only one request for you. Just accept the criticism. There is nothing to lose in accepting. Criticism construct and develops society.
WHITE wrote:
” Lukar Jam’s ILLEGITIMATE criticism against Dalai Lama has a serous damaging effect without gaining anything in return.”
How is it ” illegitimate”?
” It disheartens Tibetan people inside and outside Tibet. It endorses enemy’s propaganda. ”
Really? How so?
In fact, people inside Tibet are celebrating Lukar Jam’s candidacy. They believe that it is the culmination of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s making years of taking Tibetan people on the path to democracy. Mark my words, this democratic system will be the glue that will hold us together in the post-Dalai Lama world. It is this democratic process that will be His Holiness’ most important legacy.
” It breaks out our unity. ” Wiseman, define “unity”?
What you say is right! What others say is wrong! What you say is ” legitimate”! What others like Lukar Jam say is ” illegitimate ” ! How wonderful? Please, clap here. May a standing ovation for this Idiota.
It is for a reason that Democracy is rule based and source of that rule book is called Constitution. It is for a reason, His Holiness the Dalai Lama calls it ” Tsa -Trim RINPOCHE .” Tell us who gave extra constitutional authority?
I think ,you are one of the most shallow and narrow -minded people I know of. I quote Sakya Lekshey:
” Kha Dhey Me Tsang Sey-pey Chue/
Sa Tsang Shen-la Bae Nhe Che.”
” Crow that feasts on s**t , flies to a clean spot and then secretly wipes its dirty beak.” I will be back to stop you from wiping your filthy beak on good people.
White: it is significant that you provide us with a few examples of Einstein’s theories being wrong because it goes to the root of the cause for your present delusion. It tells us you are making up stuff and passing it off as facts much like other idiot who said shri Jamyang Norbu said something but couldn’t provide proof of it and being silent onthat issue like a little rat that he/she is. Either you are arrogant enough to think you are too awsome that even facts must bend itself to fit your narrative or that you are just a run of the mill apologists who simply cannot see straight and once again go out their way to make things for fit your point of view. Neither is good.
Criticism of someone’s stance is not tantamount to criticism of the person itself. It is simply silly to argue about what one called another especially when it is not even clear whether it is even disrespectful to start with. His Holiness is NOT running for Sikyong post. When he separated Gaden Podrang from shung, that criticism or even the term both became obsolete. To continue to harp on it shows a serious myopic understanding of the world and the vision of his holiness. Tibet is our nation and His Holiness is an individual, although a very important and beloved one. One must never confuse the two. Tibet has long existed way before gaden podrang or even Buddhism in Tibet and must always be put first. A lot of people confuse the two and spineless politicians like Penpa Tsering make use of it to avoid debating Lukar. If you want to know who actually denigrate and insult His Holiness, maybe you can ask Penpa Tsering about how he abused his speaker position to keep Lukar out of MP post when he was ckearly the next in line and the law was in the books. Maybe one could speculate on his own character and His conduct with the late rinpoche and rinpoche’s wife and spidery web dealings in New York. He is not a type of person you want near your family, much less elect to the highest post.
Waiting for you to kick Einstein’s ass soon.
Sorry most importantly,WHITE wrote:
” It endorses enemy’s propaganda. ”
ENEMY? Define enemy? Which enemy ?
Lukar Jam, JN, Karma Choephell, TYC, Chusi-Gandruk, Free Independent Press , Editroial Board of Political Review, Student for Free Tibet?
Can’t be China? After all, the great mother land can’t be an enemy!
@42..thats my point an insult to someone like You who coule tell whats in HH mind.lol.Nice try.
Please leave HH Dalai Lama alone. HH is a full fledged politician and is a celebrity figure. He has revealed in CNN interview by Christiane Amanpour that he is not an reincarnation of Buddha or some higher being, but is just a 100% human being. So, Why we fight on HH Dalai Lama. We have been discussing on future Sikyong candidates.
Dr.Lobsang Sangay has been in power and he is politically handicapped for Tibet. He is a yo-yo of his boss.
Penpa Tsering is CTA speaker for sometime and he can not manage his own discipline in drinking.
We have one hope and that hope is Lukar Jam, who respects issue of Tibet, not leaders. We can not negotiate WMA with China because the ball is on their side. Why do we want to negotiate when Tibet belongs to Tibetan people. Leaders criticize each others and it is way of politics but they can not criticize on Tibet. Tibet is for our people from generation to generations and leaders may change many times in a generation. Politically speaking, we must maximize our horizon by looking at advanced countries. Separation of religion and state is important. Religion is a personalize matter and should not bring ones own superstition and blind faith in politics.
I am not against criticism or questioning in general. This is something Buddha himself taught to his followers to investigate and question and accept. We will all agree that the water is the most essential element to sustain life but when you are drowning water is the last thing you wanted. I said many times before, we must act according to the situation. Criticism is good that does not mean it is always good. We are in exile. Do I need to remind? His Holiness the Dalai Lama and CTA is already pounded with Chinese propaganda and man like Lukar Jams baseless criticism against Dalai Lama becomes reinforcement or endorsement for Chinese propaganda.
Let’s start with shugden issue covered by Lukar Jam against Dalai Lama. Lukar jam professed himself that he does not believe in religion. How can he say that the way Dalai Lama handled the issue of shugden is equal to that of Chinese mistreatment of Tibetan people during culture revolution? Another one Lukar jam said, Dalai Lama is a traitor “gyaltsongpa”? Do you really believe Dalai Lama betrayed his country? As we know one of the last slogans of self immolators in Tibet is return of the Dalai Lama. Some time ago Lukar jam said in one of his interview if self immolators are burning themselves just for the sake of Dalai Lama’s return, Dalai Lama should start talking to his people to encourage not to do it. If he doesn’t understand such a simple symbolic message, how can he become Sikyong? Where is the validity of all his criticism?
I have no time to write about Einstein. Following information may do the job. In the scientific community there are always disagreements no matter what especially when it comes to theory. But most scientific community think Einstein got wrong in the following matter.
1 “spooky action at a distance,”
2 “God does not play dice with the universe”.
3 Herbert Salzer
4 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-29904682
White wrote:
” I SAID many times before, we MUST act according to the situation. .. We are IN EXILE .”
Your are absolutely delusional. Who gave some of you the extra constitutional power to decide what warrants special “situation”?
News flash: we are in exile since 1959.
Thank you Jamyang La for this timely article!
White: More than Fifty years in exile, there is noboby like Lukar Jam who stands to his principle and ran for the public office. He is not using HHDL names (like you and others ). CHANGE is so hard to accept in our society. I did not understand why HHDL names should be used in the ring. Can’t you just rest HHoliness a little bit.
To tell you the truth, CTA/Gadhen Phodrang specially during the reign of Kalon Tripa Samdhong Rinpoche, it did not handle well.It was sought of like a segragation happened in the US. We created our own pots and once it is under the radar now we are saying something else. I have seen with my own eyes in Sera when that happened and now what is the results. Trouble in our own backyard.I remember one of the monks talking with his another monk friend( It is so hard to choose, felt like force to choose father or mother). They are both parents to us. It was such an emotional years for all those monks and in a way I felt so much pain even though I did not agree with them.
Lukar Jam has done what nobody in the exile can speak or act. This is a HISTORIC CHANGE, A HEALTHY CHANGE FOR OUR COMMUNITY.FINALLY A MAN, NO LONGER USING HHDL’S NAME AND FAME. SO HAPPY TO BE PART OF THIS HISTORIC ELECTION.FOR ME WINNING THE SIKYONG SEAT IS NOT IMPORTANT,THE CHANGE THAT BRINGS BY LUKAR JAM FOR OUR SOCIETY IS GOOD ENOUGH.
White: I will bite. I don’t know about cultural revolution per se but there were many instances where common people have created such an envirnment in different settlements. But the handling of shugden issue was a colossal fukup job from start to finish and ended up creating such a divisive community totally unnecessary politically or culturally. What was gained from that? The only thing that it achieved was division within our people where none existed and have China a pawn to play with. And we are not supposed to noticed that or even criticize that? The problem is not with logic or the understanding of dynamics in an evolving world, the problem is that you think His Holiness is beyond criticism and he can do nothing wrong. Not just you buy most people. That cannot coexist in a democracy. That is probably why His Holiness relinquished his political reins, but unfortunately to a playboy who will sell anything and everything if somehow he benefits from it.
In your second issue about selling your country, lukar is right. What else do you call someone who does not want to seek the sovereign right of a nation? I am not talking about intentions or justifications but the simple act of abandoning independence. That is the technical term. I don’t see how you want to argue on that.
Unless we separate religion and politics there isn’t going to be a real democracy. Politics is always going to be subservient to religion.
Unless we separate religion and politics there isn’t going to be a real democracy. Politics is always going to be subservient to religion.
When tibetan people voted for MWP…its a collective act givingup rangzen…so why HH was being held responsable..pretty tough to digest such statement from lukar peanut butter jam.
#tenpa dhargye#
As you’re an avid Rangzen Adocate, I have one question for you & others including Jamyang Norbu.
a) To be able to free Tibet, you need to do something urgently without wasting much time, otherwise you’re worse than people having middle way as their ideology. Because you talk big and remain passive. Please mention your way of throwing the Chinese out of Tibet. I don’t need your big talk rather a practical approach to free the land of snow from the iron fist rule of CCP.
b) Since you’all are against the policy of H.H. the Dalai Lama and the majority of the Tibetan people’s wishes, what are your plans and strategy to overthrow the current Chinese hardliners? If you don’t have any, then it’s not worthwhile having Rangzen as your ideology because even parrot knows how to talk when taught.
c) And why you people are so optimistic to support Lukar Jam, when you clearly knows there are others who are more educated and experienced than him. Why?
Tall:there have been no referendum to poll the public via votes. Something as important as giving up independence hasn’t been put to the public vote. Why wasn’t it done? Were they afraid of how people might actually vote? Instead a kangaroo meeting was called and after much manipulation send over to His Holiness as the public stamp. This should smell to high heavens.
Ling, Who are THEY? why should THEY be afraid of…loosing what?
“They” are the Tibetan public. On the matter of the very survival of the nation, you cannot decide it by few selected representatives. It must be put to vote just like Scotland referendum because each individual has the right to decide that without coercion or emotional blackmail. This is exactly why it wasn’t done that way and people like samdhong rinpoche manipulated to their desired ends.
Lobsang Sangay Moron wants 5 more years for continuity, stability and prosperity!
Some of his Kalons are probing western pasture, particularly one who is doing rounds in U.S. now.
most of the people in tibet call his holiness with many name like lar gen. rinpoche. or nyima. or daka because there are nyatokpa known as undercover police are listening, like my own experience my wife’s father always say how’s largen doing on the phone. so it must’ve been lukar jam’s old habit that kicks in sometime.
58 Samten la, First of all thank you for asking the questions.
Rangzen is our birthright.It is a long term endeavour and we might not lose hope. In order to overthrow the Chinese officials we have to campaign, organize movements and so others. It is not that we do not have plan and strategies. The problem we have is in our own backyard we are not allowed to do anything. Now a days Rangzen are the black criminals in our society.We are ashamed, consider worse than Shugdhen and Communist China( Samdhong Rinpoche).
When Obama ran for office, so called educated and learned experience people ignore him. Politician and so called educated ones said he has no experience. Later what happen is US History. So SAMTEN LA, Think twice before you note it down. Do not be a parrot yourself.
Lukar Jam is our new OBAMA! He is different, no dynasty. He represents inside and outside Tibetans. Tibetan in Tibet are following sikyong elections because of people like him. So you go and figure it out.
Samten la: Tell me about your strategies and Plan. It is a total disaster and a failure. China only wants to talk about Dalai Lama but not Tibet. That being said they want to negotiate HHDL personal. Tibet exist way before any Dalai Lama. Tibet is for Tibetans, for generations to come and it should not be lost for one’s own benefit.
This is for those Tibetan people here who complain that Tibetan public policy has too much religious influence. Let’s see if our society is any different from other countries around the world. Following are the part of lyrics from national anthem.
US——————In God is our trust
Canada———God keep our land glorious and free
Great Britain———-God save our gracious Queen
Swiss—————pray to God, to Him surrender
Russian—————Native land protected by God
India——–The pray for the blessings,and sing by the praise
Bhutanese——————-As the doctrine of the Lord Buddha flourishes
Swedish——-With God I shall fight for home and for hearth
Italy——-The union and the love reveal to the people God’s ways.
Japan——-May the reign of the Emperor continue
In Chinese national anthem I do not see any affiliation to God.
Some times I feel man like Lukar Jam only want Geographical area of Tibet otherwise willing to merge with Chinese everything else. Tibetaness is not important at all for man like Lukar Jam. Religion is dismissed, Dalai Lama is dismissed, probably compassion and kindness is also dismissed, our way of thinking is dismissed, our identity is dismissed.
Can we ask Samdhong largen to retire and find a hermitage close to Triund? Had enough of him already. When is RFA Tibetan section going to interview Lukar Jam? Any news???Rangzen.
White: yes, they do and it is just a continuation of an era past. Even Einstein has reportedly said that God does not play dice with the Universe but he doesn’t really believe in such an entity. The question isn’t whether they have such proclamations in their oath or money but if they are separate or not. They don’t elect clergy to the parliament not do they have 25 percent of the seats like we do. And definitely NOT hungerstrike to be included in the parliament. Ridiculous!! Monks should follow Buddha’s example and not be like Samdhong Rinpiche who is in the midst of all the deep filth in dhasa. He dares to be is a follower of Gandhi without leading any matches, protests, imprisonment, hunger strikes or even lathe charges. This guy is a fake Gandhian or fair weather Gandhi.
There should not be any baseless allegation against anybody. If there are baseless criticism, people will eventually know. This is what Mr. Lukar Jam actually said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNLkJC9oB7c
I believe in Tibetan democracy and it will withstand this small tide of Sikyong election. What more important is to listen all opinion and not shun each other.
Beware of Lobsang Sangay’s bait: Five & fifty and 4S (survive, strengthen,sustain and succeed. Ensure not to get trapped this time.
@61, revisit 59 and look for tour Word ‘they’.
Great Britain and Japan honors their queen and emperor respectively at highest level by including in their national anthem to this very day. Man like Lukar Jam is ready to dismiss Dalai Lama.
Why people keep bringing our past Sikyong, Zamdhong Rinpoche’s name? It seems many people here are carrying grudge against Rinpoche. They must have had rough time during his tenure. Carrying grudge is a heavy burden. If you cannot challenge by talking to the person face to face, I guess the next option is backbiting.
“They don’t elect clergy to the parliament not do they have 25 percent of the seats like we do”. We have popularly elected members making decision like this. People in the coffee house cannot make decision what kind of representatives we should have in the parliament.
Man like Lukar is definitely not fit to decide this kind of issue because he does not represent mainstream Tibetan population. His mentality is too close to China, materialism.
@66 White:
Let me begin by saying that your comments are stupid.
Who gave you the right to say that to be a Tibetan you have to be Buddhist? And tell me what type of Buddhist he or she has to be? Geluk, Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Jonang, Karma Kagyu, Drukpa Kagyu?
What about Bon? Are they not Tibetans?
What about the vast number of our youths who are not “religious”? Are they not Tibetans?
How dare you suggest that having our land is less important than preserving the “religion”! If preservation of religion is their only interest, then why are religious groups insisting on poking their heads in politics.
I can also make allegation and say that it is the conspiracy of the religious establishment to give up on Independence because the pressure of dealing with China was too much and besides, since they came into exile they were having the best of time in their history with exposure to the entire world. Do you think their predecessors would have even dreamed of having their Gompas all over the world? Not to mention the wealth and celebrity they are generating these days.
I can also allege that if MWA were to become successful, the party that benefits most would be the religious establishment. I don’t think it would make much difference to the common people.
But I know that this sort of allegation neither helps our struggle nor in preserving our unity.
So know this, if you invoke “religion” when you don’t have any other points to make, you have already lost the debate. And its time to shut up and save yourself from further embarrassment.
everyone, kindly don’t mix religion and politics. I can see some handicapped politicians preying on the it. If u have the zing to become the next PM… speak of your vision. why waste a thousand mouth on our beloved land and BUDHIST religion and acknowledged lamas.
don’t test our tolerance. next time even if you become the PM and another one bad mouth about HHDL and I will be the first person to stone you. then I too will forget my religion.
let leave religion aside, ? people.
Tenzin #74 – HHDL says MWA and if we say Rangzen, you will stone us? If so then I’ll happily let you and your likes stone me and you can also invite your women folks to do “pang-den dap” at me, if only to expose the evil behind the Buddhist facade some carry. No better than those shuden people who committed murder in Dhasa.
@yp
firstly how easily u divided our community into the mSw kudhun and rangzen. then u abuse me about stoning rangzen people.
This is the problem about our community. We lack so much knowledge and research.let alone stone ourselves and die. what’s the difference? isn’t it happening already?
Our religion is our ancestors gift to us. How you are influenced by it is not our choice but we have no right to talk bad about it as a whole.
do you think you would be so safe today where ever you are if kudhun were not there.?
I talked of stoning some half baked people who in the name of rangzen injure our sentiments to the highest lama. HHDL with whose constant effort, work,hope, vision thrives this present 6 million.
do you think China will listen to your rangzen jibe?
do you really think you can be realistic like bhagat sigh? (Although I’m dying hear some say yes…)
some evil bad budhist? where are they? Let’s stone them together.
The highest of educated and mistakenly well behaved person, if he bad mouths about kudhun, then I stone him.
read this line repeatedly. Rangzen pawos are most welcome. mahatma gandhi takes all the credit for indian independence but some very huge share of credit goes to some indian pawos.
so working with full zeal in both ways but parallel can make a difference.
I personally believe, the youth should always be saying and struggling for rangzen. The hot blood swearing. They are the fearless… They want freedom and they are bold. always…
leave HHDL alone. He is merciful for the likes of us, so much he worked and so much stones. don’t you think these verbals and literal attacks to him is equal to stoning him?
ENOUGH”
If you are a pawo, come forth and lead us
so much blood running within,
so much thirst for freedom
we are ready
we are strong
The reds have said enough
and they killed our fathers
our religion softens us so much
our prayers take away pain
but our blood boils within
we say it’s enough
our fathers are dead
our land is snatched
our religion is killed
our people are dead
we are the future
and we had enough
give us our freedom
pack your bags
leave our country
lest you see bloodshed
we are the youths
we are ready
we are strong
your suppression bled us a voice
now our religion is forgotten
our hope is shattered
we are the future
give us our rights
free our chained minds
free our brothers
free our land
hey communist chinese
we stone you.
A 6 million stone
save your nose,your soul
we have rose
we have a voice
freedom freedom…
your torture is enough.
enough is enough
#67 Bhula, RFA did interview Lukar Jam. Actually, it may be the first major interview on radio by Karma Zurkang I believe. It was not TV, and hence buried. RFA’s website might still have it. RFA’s limited TV section has not interviewed any sikyong candidate. By the way, who cares to listen RFA these days ; it is not better than VOA an VOT thanks for the influence of CTA/Gaden Phodang over the Chinese director and cohort Kalden Lodo. It is amazing Tethong director has no control over the service, people tell.
Back to Lukar Jam. The Tibetan community has nothing to loose, but everything to gain by voting for Lukar Jam. Patriotic Tibetans worldwide should go for change, and vote of Tibet’s future which is preservation of the struggle to regain independence.
There is danger of turning the institution of the Dalai Lama into a cult by Gaden Phodang’s close associates like Samdhong Rinpoche and his allies.
And this time round, Chitue and Sikyong candidates using His Holiness name to advance their candidature might backfire. Blind faith has no or little place and chance to fool a vastly educated voters.
If current social media buzz is any indication, and I like many think so, Lukar Jam might sweep the elections and so too with the parliament seats.All of which is good for Tibet’s future.
Angry Old Tibetan
How much education and training do you need to call somebody “Let me begin by saying that your comments are stupid”?
Who are you arguing with? Did I say anything even close to what you are arguing about? “Who gave you the right to say that to be a Tibetan you have to be Buddhist?” “How dare you suggest that having our land is less important than preserving the “religion”!” If you don’t have anything to say don’t say anything.
My comments could be applicable if you think Dalai Lama has been only spiritual leader of Tibetan people and not a political leader. If so you are not worth of calling Rangzen advocate. May be not even Tibetan. Shame on you.
Quite the sight to come back and see ex-monk White spouting Einstein. Did the world turn upside down just now? I quickly look outside, but, what’s this? I see no pigs flying.
Bit disconcerting when a fanatic defends his intolerance by invoking T-Rex iconoclasts, the likes of, Einstein, Darwin, Galileo, etc….who’ve all felt the wrath of religious fanaticism in their lives.
What dreams may come
You wrote five lines of comment but have no message. If you don’t have anything to say don’t say anything. “Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.”-Plato
@66 White: List of countries you sited from US, Canada, UK, Bhutan, Swiss, India, Sweden …… Japan etc doesn’t sent a single MP from monasteries or Church. Where as we have 10 out of 40 MPs from monasteries. In recent weeks even religious groups want to add more MPs aka Jonang.
Moreover, our constitution is based on Religion cum politics (Choesid Sungdrel).
So your statement is factually wrong misrepresentation.
Karze
Read my comments carefully before you spill out that is already boiling in your head. I said following:
This is for those Tibetan people here who complain that Tibetan public policy has too much religious influence.
Now where does your response fit?
White, no Quotable Quotes this time?
White:i hope you are just trolling. The present structure has been passed down from the Gaden Podrang administration when it was choe-si Nye. When it was declared fully democratic the monastic seats should also have been eradicated because that is not part of a secular democracy, more like Iranian democracy.
That doesn’t religion is being outlasted but everone is free to practice whatever religion they like, just not in the parliament.
@54 King Gesar
In the West, government imposed very strict law against tobacco companies. There are signs everywhere saying smoking is prohibited. None smokers doesn’t like smokers. They don’t want to share room with smokers. Smokers have to go outside to smoke. Actually at most places smoking is banned where violation could lead to penalties.
Smokers claim this is violation of civil liberties, individual rights, discrimination, and segregation and so on. Smokers argue that they can do whatever they want with their body. They claim that there are many smokers who live long without any health issues, many intelligent and educated people smoked to justify their behavior and of course they play as a victim.
Shugden issue is no different from smoking issue in the west. Government sees a problem in the smoking behavior mostly with deadly health related issues based on research and scientific finding and government has responsibility to protect public interest. His Holiness the Dalai Lama sees problem with worshipping shugden mostly with its authenticity to be part of Buddhist practice based on years of research and experience. As a religious teacher, His Holiness the Dalia Lama has huge responsibility to guide his followers in the right path.
Man like you and Lukar jam has no idea what you guys talking about. Everybody is free to worship anything they like, tree, rock, mountain and so on as long as they keep it for themselves. If you claim worshiping cow is a Jesus Christ’s teaching, Christians won’t stay quite.
WHITE: @ 66
Have you ever heard of ” little knowledge is dangerous” proverb?
Everyone knows that :
“US—In God is our trust;Canada-God keep our land glorious and free;
Great Britain-God save our gracious Queen ;Swiss—pray to God, to Him surrender”
First KNOW and OWN that this God and Religious is brought here by you. None of us raise it, but you. I also want to state here that I am a very religious man, but more importantly , I am very open minded. Now that said , here is my question:
Although U.S., U.K , Canada , Swiss etc calls on God , pray to God, but all the countries you listed above , in total amazement as if ( to quote your own proverb – now it is appropriate here ” the Bong-Ku Lok Thong Nyiapa ” – the proverbial donkey finds a cabbage buried underneath the ground) but what you, the WISEMAN forgot is that , in NONE of the countries, you listed, God and Religion supersedes CONSTITUTION.
In those countries, there are dhogyal followers too. They can practice their devil worship as much as they want . There are no calls for cutting socio-economic ties. I have purposely used word like Dogyal and devil worship to show you that I am no shugden followers. But, like Lukar Jam, I detest sanctions in any form against any individual right to worship anything or nothing at all.
Then you wrote:
” TIBETANESS is not important at all for man like Lukar Jam”
Define ” Tibetaness” ?
What you seems to be suggesting is that we are going to accept China’s overlordship, if you come with us, you are our pal, loyal followers , true(blind folded) Tibetans, otherwise you are traitor, and This is your MEASURE of Tibetaness.
My question is , who gave YOU the extra constitutional authority? Who made you , judge, jury and executioner ?
I think, in reality, what you have in mind is not “Tibetaness” but ” Chinese-ness” which even China democracy activists are not willing to accept.
And you have the guts to say ” Shame on you ” to others while you are the most shameless , immoral , self-centered guy here.
@white. ???? You are like a twelve year teenager who keeps jumping from one topic to the next without thoroughly discussing the previous one.
Like many have pointed out, These countries do not have allotted seats for Religious people. You can believe whatever you like but you don’t get a seat. I can’t understand how this very simple and basic point escapes you.
Ok. Now you have jumped on to be Shugden topic for some reason. If you are a democracy people can believe whatever the bell they like. I grant you that His Holiness has the riht to request folks to stop receiving teachings from him but it is at the same time not very reasonable. What have they exactly suppose to have some to warrant such a ban? If His Holiness is seeking religious harmony with all religions, including the judea-Christian traditions and Islam, all of whom have the most intolerable and barbaric teachings and have millions of people’s blood on them, then why pick on poor old Shugden people who are just a tiny minority and hardly have such a horrible legacy behind them. Why this double standard? Why now? Needless to say it is one of the worst political move aside from ceding independence. It gains nothing but created such a horrible tension and division within the community. Monasteries were separated. Teachers and students got separated. Parents and children got separated. Neighbors are now enemies. Now some of the Shudgen followers are constantly haranguing His Holiness wherever he goes. Some of them probably are now coddled by the Chinese to play to their time. Religion is one thing but when it affects the nation of Tibet that is whole another thing.
Tell me what good did it do our society?
absolutely NOTHING AT ALL!!!
just to let you know. I am not particularly religious and couldn’t care less about any of them.
Things I wrote came straight from the source. Things you wrote are cooked in your head. That is the difference.
Tibetaness is more than Tibetan DNA and Tibetans don’t behave like Chinese for sure. Lukar Jam behaves more like a Chinese.
People who do not believe in religion has no right to talk about shugden. First of all they know nothing about Buddhism and secondly they don’t care. The question goes to you why Dalai Lama is against shugden practice while tolerating everything else? At least you have to wonder.
Smokers want to smoke inside your house or seat next to you while they are smoking. I don’t think you will stay quiet unless you are smoker. I will not let anybody smoke in my house. They can smoke in their car, home, bed and who cares. Same rule applys to shugden worshippers.
This shugden subject is started by Lukar Jam not by me. Subject of politics and religion is brought up by you guys not me.
My knowledge could be little but I don’t follow man like Lukar Jam. His question: can Dalai Lama make mistakes? Am I allowed to criticize Dalai Lama? If he ask same questions against Einstein, can Einstein make mistakes? Am I allowed to criticize Einstein? People gonna just laugh. First of all, to criticize the person of this dynamic you need to be either insane or very very intelligent.
I can’t believe you are making one ignorant comment after another. People have every right to speak about any topic especially when it effects them and their community. The reason i dont have much faith in the practice of Buddhism in our community is because I studied it and realized it is not the same as Buddha’s teachings. Buddha left the palace, we are busy building palaces. Buddha left the throne. We are on the throne. People like Samdhong Rinpoche instead of meditating on emptiness instead empties the spirit and heart of a nation. You want to know about Buddha’s teaching, go to Thailand or Vietnam where the monks labor in the fields, walk barefoot and survive on the alms given on that day. Tell me which version mirrors Buddha’a life story?
And why are asking me the question you should be asking yourself? Tell me all the horrible atrocities that were committed by Shugden people before the ban. Is it comparable to the ills of some of the religions I listed? Shouldn’t religious harmony start from home?
So, can His Holiness make mistakes or not? You should ask that question to yourself and answer first. Either you are thick or simply oblivious because on one hand you are saying Eistein can make mistakes and now you are saying you need special qualifications to even suggest that. Is that a contradiction or did you just prop yourself on Eisteins level?
Again Mr. I aka white wrote :
” Things I wrote came straight from the source. Things you wrote are cooked in your head. ”
In other words, what he wrote is the whole truth, and what others wrote is “cooked” up. Note the characteristics of this psycho so far:
What he said is “right.” What others said is “wrong.” What he said is ” legitimate”. What Lukar Jam and others said is ” illegitimate “.
Aspiration to accept China’s overlordship is ” Tibetanness”; refusing to join the bandwagon of Chinese flag raising , Xi Jinping’s kiss ass is not having a true Tibetan ” DNA”
Now he is an expert on ” DNA” and, soon he will say the DNA of Lungpo Gar and that of king Tsongsten Gampo and those of the self-immolators who call for Rangzen are not Tibetan.
For this guy, may be even White is not White. May be black. May be, first he has to ask Lobsang Sangay or people in the United Front Office and then only will he let us know.
His singular contribution here is that, if JN or for that matter any Tibetan or Inji friends plan to write a historical fiction about the state of manupilated Tibetans, he has provided us with excellent material for a true portrait of real one.
To me, this the true portrait of China’s useful idiot, who will go to no ends to brand a freedom fighters, as traitors and try to question their ” Tibetan-ness” and even the authencity of our ” DNA” .
My children thinks that he is sick and needs his medicine.
This reminded me of a story, I read in Bapa Phuntsok Wangyal’s book. He wrote that when he was sick with T.B., Gyalo Thondup la helped him by sending him medicine from HK and India which helped cure him. If, such is the case, and if you give your address to JN , someone of us will send you fund for your medicine.
At least, my Tibetan-ness won’t stop me from doing this much favor, for in this life, I accept you as full Tibetan, even though you are totally misguided.
White – “Things I wrote came straight from the source.” What source? John Adams’ manure pile? Haha
Quirky fact. The 2nd president and a Founding Father of America had a strange obsession with compost heaps.
white , have you ever been to jail in exile or tibet under political charges ????
lukar has been in jail for 4 years with torture , beating and many else , its a great achievements for our political mileage, more than MEDAL and DEGREE of university,,,, you should be ashamed by your comments on lukar jam , besides do you have any credible evidence to support your allegations against lukar jam ??? so far lukar jam has denied the alllegations made towards HHDL ,,,,
Dear gen Jamyang Norbu La
You wrote that “some exile Tibetans are angry with Sikyong candidate Lukar Jam Atsok for criticizing His Holiness’s policies. He has not only been attacked in speech and writing”. How come when some people criticized Lukar Jam it is “attacking”. And when people criticize His Holiness then it’s only called “criticizing” and exercising people’s right of speech.
Those national anthems are not my creation. I wrote as is. Great Britain and Japan honor their Queen and Emperor to this very day. This is from the source. National Anthems sung in the public not in the Church. Now if you have problem with these facts don’t blame me.
Ling Gesar, It’s up to you what version of Buddhism you want to believe. As a Tibetan we have a Buddhism many considered complete package introduced by our King Songtsen Gampo. I have no evidence but I heard Zangdong Rinpoche never accepted salaries from CTA during his tenure.
Doctors used to smoke right beside patients many times even oxygen running. No problem in the past. After the smoke restriction, such behavior is no longer tolerated. Yes smokers suffer a lot and this is not because of government’s restriction but because of they smoke.
Making mistake is not the problem but not willing to correct is the problem.
#94, Tenzin Tsekyi la, Lukar Jam and also myself have “criticized” his Holiness about His policies. That’s all. We have not said he is a Chinese spy or that he should not be allowed to speak in this or that monastery or that he should be banned from Tibetan society.
Of course there are Tibetans who criticize Lukar Jam for his opinions and for calling the Dalai Lama a La-rgyan. They certainly have a right to say what they are saying and it is perfectly fine. It is “attacking” and undemocratic when you spread malicious and untrue stories about your opponent, and also demand that Lukar Jam not be allowed a forum to express his views. That is wrong and undemocratic.
There is no use in repeatedly stressing on the supposed mistakes that some people accuse His holiness of making. Everyone of us( Tibetan) knows that His Holiness did his best. People should focus on solutions for the future instead of blaming someone for this and that. There is no use of this blame game. It serves no purpose but to create disharmony among the already fragile state of the Tibetan diaspora.
@White: You are making a bizarre argument. You need to read your own post carefully and before responding.
Do you still feel that the country listed by you have same influence by religion as much as Tibetans.
Sweden for instance is the most Atheistic country on this globe barring 3 Communist countries for which we can’t judge as there is hardly any freedom.
As for popularity of British Royal it is self evident. It has a proud history of empire that never seen sunset for over a 2 centuries. English is the most sought after, read, written and Lingua Franca of the modern world. The British Royal played are great part by colonising and spreading the English beyond its shore through trade, colonising and education. Even the Dalits in India see English language as liberator.
Many of Tibetans exile are also compelled to use English as we do not have good enough command of Tibetan or Tibetan Language as a whole has not established enough except for Buddhist philosophy or etc. Google for instance do not call it Tibetan but Dzonga (Bhutanese).
There are many countries in Middleast, Asia, Africa and Latin America who are as religious as Tibetans but certainly not the Western countries listed by you.
@White: You are making a bizarre argument. You need to read your own post carefully and before responding.
Do you still feel that the country listed by you have same influence by religion as much as Tibetans.
Sweden for instance is the most Atheistic country on this globe barring 3 Communist countries for which we can’t judge as there is hardly any freedom.
As for popularity of British Royal it is self evident. It has a proud history of empire that never seen sunset for over a 2 centuries. English is the most sought after, read, written and Lingua Franca of the modern world. The British Royal played are great part by colonising and spreading the English beyond its shore through trade, colonising and education. Even the Dalits in India see English language as liberator.
Many of Tibetans exile are also compelled to use English as we do not have good enough command of Tibetan or Tibetan Language as a whole has not established enough except for Buddhist philosophy or etc. Google for instance do not call it Tibetan but Dzonga (Bhutanese).
There are many countries in Middleast, Asia, Africa and Latin America who are as religious as Tibetans but certainly not the Western countries listed by you.
A goodly little article by Tendor la. If I had to quibble, I’d pick this line. “Tragically, Tibetan society today has lost its ability to embrace intellectual differences and accommodate ideological disagreements.”
I was under the assumption we never really had it. (Not without getting beaten up.) Maybe Tendor la knows more than i, unlikely as that sounds, it’s not impossible. Ok, jokes aside. I thought Tendor la was running for NA chidue position? I’m still hoping that he does run eventually. I think he can do some good for Tibet.
https://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/articles/anexilewithinexilethespecteroflukarjam
Karze la
When did I make such a claim? “Do you still feel that the country listed by you have same influence by religion as much as Tibetans.” Remember this sentence I wrote couple of times here. REALITY IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. WHAT IS DONE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IS SAID.
Many of you here come to the West and are fooled by appearance and what is said. Religious people dominate in the countries I listed. Do you think any atheist can win presidency in the US? This is next to impossible.
You surprised me by listing British brutality as accomplishment. Aggression, killing, invasion, colonization, slavery, stealing, marginalization are never considered an accomplishment in my definition. Otherwise Chinese invasion of Tibet is accomplishment for China.
I recommend you using Apple product. Tibetan is listed in the language and you don’t have to download key board. It works as good as English. Many Tibetan buy Apple for this reason. Shortage is coming from people not from Tibetan writing.
Now the spilt-personality White comes out in his Asahara form and says his mantra is:
” REALITY IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. ”
Is he trying to enlighten us and the outside observers of Tibetan democracy that what is promoted for the past 50 years as Tibetan democracy is just an
” APPEARANCE ” and, the ” REALITY IS DIFFERENT ” . And Tibetan people should forget about the democratic rights like free speech, opinion, believes etc.
( because of special ” situation.” as he put it one of his earlier post.)
Now look at our Asahara his second magic mantra below:
“WHAT IS DONE IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IS SAID.”
Now, here the meaning seems to be s**t pit deep. He could be conveying a layers of meaning that I as mortal can not easily interpret. So, others help me here.
My interpretation is that: he may be saying them Umae -lam people, although are saying Umae-lam, but are in fact, working hard to get Rangzen?
But then, this can not be true, because the way they made every effort to destroy and undermine Tibetan Youth Congress, does not support this line of interpretation.
So, help me out here. Because,like an abstract painting, this mantra may be trying to convey a beautiful hidden meaning. Or , is it just another crazy rant of a crazy man. A comedian friend of mine says, may be our friend here is taking Vigara, mistaking it as an energy tonic and hence can not stop writing.
I can easily dissect all of his oxymoron comment line by line . But let us go little easy on him because he also has some entertainment value here. But , if he tries to insult our intelligence, I think we need to educate how shallow their side of the story is, both politically and spiritually.
@ 101 White: Each and every nation was built on colonization and invasion and even Tibet too. Invaders acknowledge the invasion as nation building despite the fact that it involves mass killing and land grab and stealing resources of the occupied people. Although the degree of brutality may vary.
Can you list single nation that was built without invasion, killing & land grab.
No need to beat White black and blue. I am scared for him. There is some risk to White, that he may end up swallowing his own tongue, in one of his apoplectic seizures over the intolerable fact of Lukar Jam, who, on top of being a Rangzen reprobate, is also an avowed atheist.
103
So what China did to Tibet is normal?
102
You have nothing to say straight so you just fool around create some sort of fictional story.
I hope you didn’t learn these sort of things from Chinese agent. They are pretty good at it.
Nobody is saying Dalai Lama is more important than Tibet as a nation. Nobody is saying Dalai Lama is above our constitution. Nobody is saying Dalai Lama is a supper human and cannot make mistakes at least at the round table discussion. Assumptions of such are baseless.
What we are saying I am included is that Holiness the Dalai Lama is simply the best and nobody could have done anything better than him for Tibet. Best means best.
Lukar Jam’s problem started with disrespect and dislike against Dalai Lama not disagreement.
White :
Your 107 post is the best one ever. All of us have to uphold Constitution as the ultimate authority.
But you are still BLINDED by misconception. Bear in mind that Lukar Jam is not contesting to become next Dalai Lama or plan to dethrone His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
Institution of the Dalai Lama is unique and irreplaceable. But, you have to respect that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has told the WORLD that He has completely retired from political leadership.
Lukar Jam is a patriot. We don’t trash our patriots. If it gives you joy or some kick, I do plead guilty that my way of thinking do have lot of China influence.
Though not a Chinese reader, I read lot of China material and so far my best is Chinese military strategist Sun Tzu’s ” Art of War” . You should read it too. One thing, it will teach you is NEVER to trust China and to hit them, when your foe is weak.
China’s moment will come or some may argue has already started. But the question is : When the opportunity presents itself, will we be able to strike? Yes, if Sikyong is Lukar Jam. If Lukar Jam is Sikyong then, he will make the right call for people inside Tibet.
If it is Lobsang Sangay, the Torjan horse that he is, he will either call on people to conduct prayers for China’s recovery or create a diversion for which he excels. I say this in all seriousness, based on his conduct so far.
@White: There is always two side oppressor and oppressed. Don’t you know typical Chinese response be it official whitepaper or average Chinese on Tibet – they paint it as liberation and progress.
Of course China violently occupied, oppressed, massacred tens of thousand of Tibetan. Chinese never see their evil deed in Tibet but they cry, moan and groan over the Japanese occupation of China almost 80 years ago. Although what Japanese did too China is small crime compared to huge crime what Chinese did in Tibet.
You have to speak in perspective and must be relevant to topics on discussion not beat around the bushes.
Thanks Jamyang Norbu Lha…you did great jobs…
@107, your first sentence must Be the spit of budweiser You had. For me Tibet Is HHDL and vice versa for now.
But who the cat he thinks he is calling “traitor” to anyone who doesn’t agree with him.i know he got imprisoned..tortured ..so did my Grand Apa.
101
May be I took too much water from the West just like many people here, “Crazy Water story”. Just kidding. I respect your faith in Dalai Lama. In a political scene, no individual can be above the law no matter who he or she is. This is the standard in democratic society. Only people as collective are above the constitution. If people of Tibet decide to hold Dalai Lama more important than nation and constitution then it can be in my opinion but I don’t think our constitution indicates anything like that.
Having said that we all should pay the deepest respect to Holiness the Dalai Lama above criticism, symbol of nation and unparalleled leader. This is more than what he deserves. Man like Lukar Jams attitude towards his holiness the Dalai Lama is never acceptable.
Remember Chinese occupation has affected to all of us one way or the other. My grandpa was died in Chinese prison. Lukar Jams imprisonment is nothing out of ordinary that gives him special ticket to become our Sikyong.
White, It’s a sin to call Lukar’s imprisonment ordinary. More striking thing is that he never touches it in his campaign briefing anywhere. Tibet and Tibetan (of past, present and future generations) owes a lots to anyone who has spent even a day in Chinese prison for our cause.
113
So you are telling me Chinese imprisonment is special ticket to become Sikyong, I know he is not bragging about but from your point of view? To become Sikyong you need more than semshug, more than patriotic, more than mouthing, more than prison experience. You need a vision that is realistic, approachable and achievable. We can’t wait for odds. We need the policy that compliments whatever we have built so far under the leadership of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. What we don’t want is the policy that is detrimental to whatever we have achieved so far.
No one has the right to abuse HHDL. gyal tsong pa is the one who, in the game of politics sells our forefathers, our beliefs, our tsawe lama. why he has to bad mouth all this. I’m deeply hurt. HHDL, until 14th and so on, been working for Tibetans. Some young blood cannot mud and foul smell all his work in this wrong way.
They are not allowed to hurt us with their premature new Ness and so called long for change. ofcourse change is a change, bring it on as you wish. but leave alone HHDL’s name.
hypocrites saying HHDL is the highest of highest and such abuses are minimal and nothing and unaffected is just rubbish.
Rangzen people are unrealistic as always.
few throbs of hot blood in your veins doesn’t give you any right to hurt our feelings. be it the fact that you had been behind the Chinese bars. when you come back, we agree you nearly died there, but please don’t come back and bad mouth the past and present rulings. Instead, why didn’t you fight back them then and there. why do you need to fight within. why didn’t you fight them. form a youth coalition, plan, startegise, bomb the very heart of the communist. or work within them, just like they cheated us, cheat them.
All the rangzen pawos, if your patriotism is unflinchingly true, work forward, be grateful you have an open choice… platform is yours. play it your way, as you seem to die for it. Please leave HHDL and our beliefs aside.
Although I believe Lukar Jam has every right to speak out his opinion but we will be the judge when it comes to decision making. As an ordinary person, I think he lacks the power to judge the exile society without knowing the immense contribution of H.H. the Dalai Lama.
As evident from some of his public talk, he has the guts to touch on the sensitive topic of Dogyal, without taking into consideration the years of investigation, consultation and finally the decision of H.H. the Dalai lama. His insight into the exile society is overshadowed by the conflict in ideology with some personnel working in the CTA.
I have doubt when it comes to give him vote because of his handling of the Dogyal issue and others. As a man profess of having no religion, it is illogical for him to talk about this evil spirit. But in the meantime many worshipers having contact with the CCP, are in some sort of good mood because of his soft stand on this issue. Many even came to give him grand reception when he landed on the western soil. What a contradiction?
On the whole, he wants to restructure the exile govt. and the schools under it leaving aside the moral principle associated with it. I can smell something wrong here…
@114: Nobody gets special ticket. If you wish you too can fight for the post of Sidkyong. Anybody who meets the prescribed requirement set by “the Election Commission” can stand for Sidkyong, or Chitue. It is up to the each Tibetan to choose which candidate they see fit for the post.
Tenzin @ 115
“Please leave HHDL and our beliefs aside”
Exactly! You guys are the one’s constantly bringing up HHDL’s name and using it to detract from Lukar Jam’s Sikyong candidacy. There is a big difference between being against HHDL and simply venting once in a while. HHDL is not the leader of just the Middle way followers or supporters of say Speaker Penpa Tsering or Sikyong Lobsang Sangay. He is the leader of all Tibetan people. So please think with a clear head. And if you still insist that one is not even allowed to vent or express any kind of difference of opinion than you are better of under CCP.
Samten @ 116
On the Dolgyal issue, Lukar Jam has said that he would make sure he took care of the problem. Is that a bad thing? Do you want the screaming and shouting shugdenpas to go on everywhere HHDL goes? Does it not bother you that there are these people (shugdenpas) who may be suffering inside despite their show of bravado? I know there are some who have gone too far. that is different.
Also i dont think think he’s one to get swayed by what you call grand reception by some Shugdenpas. I’m sure he knows better.
Our disrespect to Lukar Jam is earned by himself by disrespecting our beloved leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I won’t say he is ati-Dalai Lama but he is very disrespectful to His Holiness by calling “traitor” “Lhargen” and so on. Until he sincerely apologize to His Holiness and to people of Tibet attack against him will never stop.
(Dolgyal) Yes smokers can complain and protest whatever they want but non-smokers are never going to accept their smoking behavior into their life.
There you go..one candidate promoting rangzen could not even go pass prelim..have a better candidate next time…i will be sleeping through this coming election.hehe
Who is Dogyal and what is Dogyal? (This question is your home work ) Whether he/she is pro-Dogyal or anti-Dogyal both are in the same boat of blind faith and superstition. First of all,who has identified that Dogyal is an evil spirit or a good spirit.HH Dalai lama says he is just a human being. If Dogyal is an evil spirit, why all successive good spirit of HH Dalai Lamas, successive spirit of Karmapas, Sakya Lamas and Nyingmapa Lamas can not subdue and defeat this single evil Dogyal spirit. This is all dogmatism we have from generation to generations. Tibetan Buddhism is called Lamaism mixed with Buddhism, Hinduism,Bon and politics. In Thailand, Burma, Combodia, Sri Lanka, Japan etc., reincarnation is not exist. Reincarnation is started from Vishnu, a Hindu god. Hindu say that Buddha is one the reincarnations of Vishnu but Buddhist people do not abide this notion. In refuge prayer, Buddhist people say take refuge in Buddha, Dharma and Sangha, but Tibetan Buddhist say take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha and Lama.
My point is Tibetan are intertwined with superstition and blind faith even in this scientific and tech world. Younger generations are brain washed by their parents and elders.
@118
firstly, I am not a supporter of LS or TT OR ANYONE else. I am yet to research. I plan to refuse my voting right and gift to HHDL. For how dirty politics has come up and I don’t want to mingle into this. I don’t want to vote to any of the people.
But anyways.
venting once in a while?
I swear of my dead mom, what is that?
Is it the way to vent?
If your life is going hapazard. do you blame and abuse your parents?
is this the kind of freedom of expression we expect from the people and esply from a PM candidate?
And rangzen people don’t tell me there is a nonviolent way of fighting for rangzen. China is not even giving ears to mid way approach and you are speaking of rangzen.
I really feel China wants us to fight within, loose our vision, stagger on our main path to retore tibet and tibetanness, and dirty HHDL’s name.
seems that’s y recent release of Kyab.
I rejoice at his release. but why at this point.
tibetans are boiling in its tiny premature politics… thus burning each other.
China doesn’t need weapon to kill us.
rangzen and nonviolence, gandhian way?
tibetans so less informed. sad…
Anyone can be criticized in the free world. Only place where one can not criticize is in Communist, Totalitarian and autocratic gov’t.
We are embracing democracy and therefore it is nothing new if people criticize our leaders including HH the Dalai lama. But the irony is that some folks love to bring up HH the Dalai lamas name everywhere. Guys wake up..HH complexly given up his political role. If you guys still says HH is involved with Tibetan Politics then you are all saying the same as CCP as they still don’t believe that HH the Dalai Lama has devolved his role of logical leadership.
Please don’t give weapon to CCP.
RANGZEN and don’t forget to vote for our one and only deserving sikyong candidate Lukar Jam.
RANGZEN KYI HI HI
Yes, we are aiming for an independent nation and for a democratic exile. But it scares me, when I think about the route we are taking. I know I am not being rational, practical, or whatever word the educated ones will tie me to. The thing that has tied our community together is a human being with a life, that will cease some day. We are taking roads that please us but can you promise that the candidate will be able to keep us united?
white , its disgrace to your grandpa and to every political prisoners in tibet calling lukar jam imprisonment an “”” ordinary “””” , shame on you
White,I welcome your disagreement with Lukar. But calling Lukar’s imprisonment “ordinary” not acceptable whatsoever explanation you gives to justify. There may be hundreds wrongs in Lukar. But he is a brave martyr like your grandpa who has endured Chinese’s atrocities in prison for stateless people like you and me.
Glad to see there is at least one lama who is courageous enough to admit that our Tulku system is not a feature of Buddhism as it was taught by Gautama Buddha.
https://youtu.be/lougVag8EYw
After following Tibetan politics for so long, and reading so much here and else where, I observe one think : people who bring His Holiness the Dalai Lama in their arguement are : 1) Less educated both in Tibetan and English and may be Chinese too. 2) They are also morally weak in their character. Just observe them, you will find gamblers, drunks, womanizers, corrupts, meat sellers and worst.
The sincere, pious and devoted and pure ones, unfortunately lack education.
The second group who see His Holiness the Dalai Lama as ” brand ” or ” franchise” of International standard are so morally corrupt, one way or the other. (Take Lobsang Sangay as an example.)
I challenge you to think and reflect on.
When you do further analysis, you will come to conclusion, that it seems like this second group of people,who are extremely influential in one way or other, are purposely undermining Tibetan education system to keep the larger Tibetan population as much ignorant and uneducated as possible.
Just think about it.
For example, what type of modern day Institute of Higher Learning / colleges would ban college students from taking part in election debate ? Why is Semu-Kusho letting this?
It is very important to reflect on it. This one of the primary reason for our backwardness. His Holiness the Dalai Lama sincerely wants us all to do well.
So who is stopping us?
Just reflect on this.
I think, the best example of the proxies or spokesmen or spokeswomen of this second group is, this person with a pseudonym of WHITE. I sincerely urge people like him to seek real education because it will serve his family better, and our community and our phayul better.
Think differently.Think critically. Keep your faith in religion and His Holiness the Dalai Lama but not in the way the second group of people want us.
There are not many people here who LIKE Samdhong Rinpoche. I don’t grade Samdhong Rinpoche, the politician very highly. But the intellectual Samdhong Rinpoche, or when the real professor in him speaks, he is a fountain of wisdom. I am a fan of this Samdhong Rinpiche, not the politician.
The intellectual Samdhong Rinpiche when he first started the speakership of Tibetan parliament said and I quote:
” Tibetan people have this mistaken notion of mixing up Government for Nation . They should have absolute loyalty towards our nation but not necessarily towards government. Government is run by a group people. If they are not doing good work. People should criticize the government. The government can be changed. Loving one’s nation is not same as having to love the government .”
This is the rough translation of his Tibetan speech which got imprinted in my young mind then. Researchers can easily fact-check with archived material, so that people don’t think I am putting words into his mouth. Besides, he is very much alive and anyone can ask him directly.
But, sadly that is the last time, the intellectual Samdhong Rinpoche spoke and what we are seeing now is C grade politician. Sorry, Rinpoche. I have learned to speak truth to power. I conveyed the same feeling to Rinpoche himself, couched in the politest word I could find.
The basic unasked or unprovoked questions for all the Tibetans should be:
What comes first: Your nation or leader?
What you should care most: Your nation or leader?
What would you choose: Your nation or a leader.
What is the most sacred duty of a citizen: Protect and save-guard the constitution (Charter in Tibetan case) or the Buddhist cannons?
What should a Chitue or a Sikyong candidate care first: The people of the leader?
Al these questions boils to the hardest questions: What is more important, Tibet or the Dalai Lama? And what would you give up first?
These are hard questions with no easy answers for most of the Tibetans. They want both ways. And they can have if they treat both equally important, like the Sun and the Moon. If you take sides they might end up having noon.
If Lukar Jam can His Holiness the Dalai Lama traitor, I can call him with any name. If Lukar Jam can discredit everything Dalai Lama has done for Tibet, I can easily discredit everything he has done in his life. It’s funny when Lukar Jam criticize Dalai Lama is a freedom of speech but when I criticize Lukar Jam, it’s a sin, shame and so on.
Bunch of discombobulated people talking about shugden and Buddhism. Somebody who doesn’t believe in Buddhism should not talk about shugden because it does not fit well. Lukar Jam do not care about Buddhism.
I don’t believe myself everything we do or believe as a Buddhist practice but I have studied extensively mostly as a academic value and I am glad I did it. Buddha himself is considered Tulku, one of the three bodies of Buddha. Tibetan reincarnation system is also Tulku system so nobody can really say Tulku system is Not part BuddBuddhism. I am still curious about what does it mean when somebody say I don’t believe in Buddhism.
Lukar Jam is also free to belittle his own father so why he is not doing it? You have the right to do it, you are allowed to do, you can do it, doesn’t mean you have to do it. There has to be a good reason to do anything for intelligent people. Lukar jam has no good reason whatsoever to criticize our beloved leader. Only reason he has is he is allowed to do it because of democracy.
You know what? Tibet is important. We all here for Tibet. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the greatest and most important part of Tibet. People who care for Tibet must care for Dalai Lama. His Holiness is like eyes of Tibet and whoever try to poke our eyes, they will receive instrintive response.
@White: Even a day in best of prison (prison in Western Europe) is not a pleasant experience. Lukar has spent several years in the notorious Chinese prison as a prisoner of conscience.
If you spend one day in prison than you will understand and realise it.
In a democratic country, every citizen has right to speak not some.
Jampal Guretsang @ 120
No need for any home-work. Here, I have to validate white. Some people may not wish to inhale second hand smoke and so they may want to protect themselves. You may not believe in such things but the reality is these things do exist. About why no one is able to subdue shugden only some higher power would know. It is not for mortal beings to dabble in such things.
Reincarnation is a reality and not a prerogative of Buddhism and Hinduism. Despite their belief system , the concept of reincarnation transcends all religions or philosophy.
128 KHA-WA KHAWA
Just respect His Holiness the Dalai Lama and stay away from slandering His Holiness. Don’t be like Lukar Jam.
What makes you think you are educated and better than officials in CTA and people who are staunch supporters of Dalai Lama? You must have done something special in your life that we could not do it. May I know?
GREAT RESPECT FOR LUKAR JAM..
@133: Reincarnation is not universal even among Buddhist let alone Non Buddhist religions. Only the Tibetan Buddhism or Vajrayana believe in Reincarnation. No wonder you won’t see Trulku – incarnate Lama’s in Burma, Vietnam, Thailand, Sri Lanka etc.
It is only in Tibet, Mongolia, Nepal and Himalayan region of India where they practice Tibetan Buddhism.
Karze la,
I think he means to say that we all re-incarnate again and again until such time that we attain Nirvana. There are many cases of people all over the world remembering their past life irrespective of what their family’s belief system may have been.
Yes, the system of recognizing tulkus is practised only by Tibetans. The tulkus’s are supposed to be the reincarnations of their predecessors but who knows how many are actual reincarnations of the previous incarnate. it served its purpose in the past but in recent times, its become a joke when people started recognizing left and right their family, kith and kin.
All of a sudden, Lukar Jam’s imprisonment became extra-ordinary, why? Because he is advocating Rangzen and rejecting MWA? I don’t undermine our political heroes but we have to be unbiased. Tenzin Delek Rinpoche spent 12 years in Chinese prison and died in prison. No single person here wrote anything about it. I was expecting something from Jamyang la but nothing came up. Why? Because he is a monk? Few people are said monks should not get involved in politics and just focus on meditation referring to Zamdhong Rinpoche. How many monks and nuns self immolated in Tibet? How many monks and nuns are in Chinese prison? Are you guys going to telling them you just do your Buddhist practice and don’t get involved in political struggle? Think before you talk.
Monks and lay people, educated and uneducated, young or old, men and women we all have responsibility for Tibet.
White. I think you have a seriously myopic point of view. Lukar Jam imprisonment is not extraordinary because he was imprisoned but because they couldn’t break him in so many years. He showed he was willing to die for his country. This kind of person is defined by incorruptible principles and are steadfast in their endeavors. This struggle is not just to get a cozy st seat in dhasa and do the bare minimum. Work few hours, disappear for hours and play marriage all night. Or in Penis Tsering’s case, get thoroughly drunk and roll down Gankyi hill. He has a vision for Tibet that doesn’t involved bending over and negotiating the fewest number of rapage. He wants is to wake up from horrible dream where easy is easy and traitors like Ngabo are patriots. I highly suspect people in exile even understand the raw experience of someone from Tibet who have suffered under the Chinese.
We have instead people like you who probably couldn’t handle one day in prison with cattle prod down your throat. It wouldn’t be far fetched to see you would actually be one of those Tibetans jailers who gleefully perform the torture.
Samdhong Rinpoche is just using the robes to get to the juiciest position. Even now, at this age, he can’t let it go. Monks and nuns self immolation inside are not dying so that they can be reborn as Samdhong Rinpoche and be the next PM. They are fighting for basic human rights and human dignity. Don’t confuse the two.
All these accusation heaped on Lukar Jam – calling him out on calling HHDL”Largen” or that he is a detracter (Sursa chegen) HHDL are nothing more them attemps to sidestep the real issue, that is Lam Uma or Rangzen.
Lukar Jam has posed a serious and credible question on the viability of Lam Uma. People seem to have a hard time accepting that given that Lam Uma originated from HHDL.
As people living under democratic system in our hearts and minds, there must be space in our society to discuss rangzen and lam uma honestly.
Lukar Jam is practicing democracy as HHDL has envisioned it.
Ling Gesar
You said: “He has a vision for Tibet that doesn’t involved bending over and negotiating the fewest number of rapage”
Can you declassify his vision for Tibet? Is it some sort of Mission: Impossible-Rogue Nation?
So you meant to say monks and nuns can get involved in political struggle but can’t hold political position? Zamdhong Rinpoche was voted by people for two full term Sikyong position. Do you have problem with that?
After reading all bs of disrobed monk with pseudonym of White ,I have decided to vote for Lukkar Jam. I was a former official of CTA and three generation of my family served Tibetan government. Lukar Jam Gyal Gyur Chek.
#Ling Gesar#
The below lines are just fake and doesn’t convey the truthful nature of Samdhong Rinpoche.
“Samdhong Rinpoche is just using the robes to get to the juiciest position. Even now, at this age, he can’t let it go. Monks and nuns self immolation inside are not dying so that they can be reborn as Samdhong Rinpoche and be the next PM. They are fighting for basic human rights and human dignity. Don’t confuse the two.”
The above lines it seems is written by a person having limited knowledge.
#white. His vision if you are not aware is indpendence for Tibet, not negotiating with those who does not care to negotiate and repeatedly told us that. It is time to accept China will not accept a separate Tibetan area within China. It has failed. His Holiness even said it twice. Each time he took it back but he said it. The only way to actually survive is to maintain a clear vision and stance which will unite all Tibetans. This constant cowering and appeasement will only end up confusing ourselves and actually believing we are better as Chinese. In Lobsang Sanfay case overseas Chinese. It has come to a point where Tibetans in exile carry Chinese flags. If they dared they will ban Tibetan flags. Tell me White why do carry Tibetan flag of you are for middle way? The completion of the muddleway destroys the nation and thereby the flag.
Why is Samdhong Rinpoche running in the first place? Is he following buddha’s path or not? You can be fighting for truth without seeking political office. Look at Gandhi. Look at Martin Luther king. I dont remember Samdhong ji on a hungrstrije or leading a march to Tibet or risking jailtime. But you know very well how our monasteries have been intoxicated with power for so long in the glory says, that it is difficult to give it up. Poor Jonangpas had to go in hingerstrike to share in that Apple pie. And comparing the sacrifices made by Tibetan monks and nuns cannot be constituted as just because they were monks but because they were Tibetans inside Tibet under tremendous strain. And it is not just monks and nuns but Tibetans from across the board. Get it?
Loong gaesar@
mind you dare talk like that of samdong rinpoche. do you mean to say all the tibetans are so blind and foolish, and you are so wise.
Please speak what you have to. don’t abuse rinpoche!
140
KHA-WA KHAWA aka Psychic, my cynicism aroused by your comments turn out to be true. You are somebody who has droega-nga or carrying grudge towards CTA because your wish may not have come true during your tenure. Please do not put your ancestors to shame who may have dedicated too much for Tibetan cause.
Isn’t the definition of INSANITY doing the same thing OVER and OVER and expecting different results?
Please leave what is left of exile struggle with us and beat the path laid out by Alak Amachok (Rinpoche).
Or is it Xi Jinping’s precondition to burn to ashes what we built for past 50 + years, before your path to Chinese citizenship?
You are nothing but a sad, pathetic character.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is more than capable of defending himself. Of course!
Especially when the human side of the Dalai Lama gets angry. Recall how he went after deputies like Karma Chhomphel an the like.
We shouldn’t be surprised if the Dalai Lama himself goes after Lukar Jam. That would be the waterloo of sorts.
Lam Uma followers (following blindly like owls), are desperate about Lukar Jam’s rising star, and Tibet’s star for that matter.
There are enough silent Tibetans who can’t declare their devotional admiration for Lukar, except on so social media. It is for Lukar himself to prove that Tibet is rocking for him.
I bet there is nothing stopping the netizens from voting for Lukar – in drove the voters will overwhelm the system that refuses to respect the core wish for the Tibetan people, both in sie and out of Tibet.
When the voting is counted sometime in 2016, I bet no one will be happier than the Dalai Lama himself. He might then declare, finally the Tibetan people of spoken their mind, and taken the responsibility on their own shoulder.
His Holiness can then actually relax, if he wishes!
#KHA-WA KHAWA #
There is no separate path for you & White. If you are telling White to follow Alak Amachok Rinpoche, then you also have to do the same thing. You are talking as if those upholding middle policy are wrong and pathetic. Ha! Ha! man, what have you contributed so far for the Rangzen struggle apart from staying safe & comfortable?
144 Ling Gesar
My vision is sovereign Tibet with no single Chinese inside Tibet. I will kick every Chinese out of Tibet just like Bhutanese kicked out all the Nepalese residing in Bhutan. I will also build great wall of Tibet at Tibet China border.
The statement that is not aligned with strategic plan is not a vision, is a dream.
You have to get Rangzen from China. China is not going to give Rangzen willingly. Lukar Jam is not going to negotiate with China. Lukar Jam wants to do something with non-violently, I am not sure what that is. Every one of them in the United Nations doesn’t want to upset China, India doesn’t want to upset China and recognized Tibet as part of China. Best scenario is some sort of resolution on Tibet in the United Nations for wherever reason still it has to go through China who holds veto power. So now, what Lukar Jam is going to do? Wait for the odds? People of Tibet are not prepared to Waite for odds.
RADIO FREE ASIA ELECTION POLL IS BIASED AND BORING.IT FAVOURS SPEAKER PENPA TSERING ONLY. WHO EVER HAS CREATED THE POLL IS ALL AGAINST LUKAR JAM.
WHAT KIND OF RADIO IS RFA NOW? BORING! NOW IT HAS BEGUN LIKE A RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS.
148 Sar Lang
Your parents going to cry to know your attitude towards His Holiness Dalai Lama. If you can not appreciate His Holiness, you can not appreciate anybody. Its sad situation my friend. His Holiness never claimed to be super human being and never act like one. According to you His Holiness has no right to defend himself or reject any accusation? What kind of justification is this?
Lukar Jam is not a star. He is notorious for attacking His Holiness and CTA. Lukar Jam have been poking on eyes of Tibet and Tibetans are very agitated.
147 Khawa khawa
I said it before to your other partners in crime, if you don’t have anything to say, you don’t have to say anything.
You can write 100 pages with no subject but for what? express your anger?
Devil preaching scripture !
140 Namgyal
Most Tibetans including myself have no problem what so ever disagreeing with MWA or CTA or even Dalai Lama himself. The problem here is disrespect, dislike and attitude that aligns with Chinese propaganda towards His Holiness and CTA in the name of Rangzen and democracy.
True advocates of Rangzen is a sign of pure patriotism irrespective of its practicality. No Tibetan can dislike such an attitude.
154
Here comes angel!
@White. When did I ever make that statement? Please stop putting words in people’s mouth like you are constantly doing to Lukar. Your statement just shows your myopic understanding of history and you are looking at Tibet as a human entity. The struggle for a nation can go on for centuries. And the only way to win to be resolute and United in the vision of a free nation, not by negotiating how many time you would like to be raped. Look at our exile community, it is besieged by pure nonsense and internal strife when it didn’t exist when Rangzen was the main goal. When you create this monster called Umaylam , it has become this self perpetuating entity where it now sees everything and everyone it fights in contradiction with its goal as it’s enemy. Kind of like HAL in 2000 movie. Now previous traitors are national heros, previous heros are quietly being relegated to the trashcan. Lukar is right. History will judge it correctly.
#155 white…don’t you even feel a little bit of shame for speaking such nonsense. It is of course because Lukar is disagreeing with middle way that he is being vilified. If you actually had taken time to listen to his explanations you would see it clearly. Even a kid would. Ok maybe not ex monks. He is getting very popular with a lot of people and that is frightening to people like you. You only want Rangzen people to do the side shows whenever it is convenient for you but you forget Rangzen people are principally driven by truth and as such will not bend like you. We don’t like taking it in the bum. Now there is finally a rangzen candidate who talks well, is well educated, got moral strength, and will not back down from a challenge, now suddenly you are finding fault with his candidacy. And you dwell on idiotic comments or word he used instead of asking real substantive political questions. It shows your lack of intelligence and poltical acumen. People like you have managed to put the black hat on Jamyang norbu, lasang Tsrring, dhondup lhadar, Dawa Norbu, etc. Every one who is a rangzenpa and who is popular, you label them the same way. This is the oldest trick in your arsenal. Penis Tsering started this current Thamzing session and now all his little minions are following thru.
Mentally WHITE(ed) -out wrote:
“The problem here is disrespect, dislike and attitude that ALIGNS with Chinese propaganda towards His Holiness and CTA …)”
Could he be a 50 cent Chinese warrior? Or this guy a true specimen of what happens when you don’t get sound education either in Dharma or modern education?
Every time he writes, he comes out with I -am-holier-than-thou attitudes. In reality, his tone betrays thuggish behavior. ( Rangzen followers needs to be stoned to death attitude)
Now when do we need thugs to protect the reputation of His Holiness the Dalai Lama? Will it help or hurt?
He claimed in his earlier post that he had mastery in religious text. The ills of pride, ego,anger,hatred didn’t figure anywhere in his version of Tibetan Buddhism.
He claims, people of his level are fighting not for JUST geographic area called Tibet but for the soul of Tibet? The level of blind faith and his type of crazy wisdom mixed with Islamic holy warrior type of intolerance is what he talking about what is more important than just “Geographic Area” ?
The core message of his ceaseless, meaningless post is this: Do-what-We -say because what we (umaelam crap) believe is Right and thinking anything otherwise is like “disrespect and aligns with China? ”
Does this crazy know that we are living in 21 century democracy, not in a middle age theocracy?
Now come to lack of modern education.
He thinks that knowing how to write or say, my name is Tenzin and I used be a monk in Tibetan monastery makes him the authority on Tibetan politics and political struggle or that of modern politics.
Does he even know the meaning or the import of the word ” ALIGNS WITH”?
Empty vessels sounds much. Babbling brooks makes much noises.
Let us ask primary students in TCV the following questions.
Q. I. What aligns more with regard to China? (Mark the CORRECT answer with X)
1. Fighting for Tibet’s independence.
2. Refusing to accept Tibet is part of China.
3 . Accepting China’s rule ( middle way or umae lam)
Q.2: What do you call people who give up freedom struggle and surrenders to one’s enemy and accept their rule?
1. Patriots
2. Traitors
I can go on and on. And before they ask me their most convenient question that what is my contribution, I will quote a very popular Tibetan proverbs: ” you will more of my butts prints than your finger prints.”
Who is this enigmatic Thupten Thogmey? He looms everywhere in youtube and facebook. To me he seems a discredited and shameless monk who can not keep up his monastic vows for sake of women, fame and materialistic greed. How we can trust this big mouth who indirectly intending to split our community by using HH Dalai Lama’s name in every statement he made. When you listen his petty talk carefully, he misuses religion for his selfish, secular and ideological ends to undermind our individual rights. His views are psychological manipulation and trying to harm our society. Please aware this kind of Chinese agents in our community.
@160 There is also Artha and his folks trash talking. Both sides are attacking each other (Tibetan) than China.
Chinese see both as useful idiots – like Brit China is using divide and rule Tibet.
155 (white)
You do have a problem when people disagree with Middle Way and HHDL. Stop deluding yourself.
“True advocates of Rangzen…” this is a total bromide that you profess only to seem reasonable.
You appreciate Ranzen advocates only in abstract, not in reality.
# 160 Jampel Guretsang. Thupten Thokmey is ex Namgyal monastery monk, whose father was a petty Amdo political in Dasa. After becoming dralok he went to USA. He also had a sanjor girlfriend from Amdo. He promised to marry. She flew to Washington where he met her at hotel. He told her he could not marry her. He met an foreign girl. He dumped Amdo girl and left. The Amdo girl could not speak any word of English. She had no money and no contact. She got desperate and could not pay hotel. She took a rope and hanged herself. Rinchen Dharlo was dhonchoe and travel to Washington to help police about this suicide. Very tragic and sad. Thogmey is shit KYAKPA.
Karze @161
Exactly! Stupid, ignorant people people on both sides.
Just the most hilarious (tragic) thing Tibetans calling each other ‘Chinese agent’, in their bid to seem more pure and patriotic. Top-down, bottom-up, everyone’s doing it. I’ve been called that a few times, I’ve no doubt accused others of that myself. Half-ass thing to say really, logic-wise. For, If any Tibetan we disagree with is a chinese spy, pretty soon, there would be nil patriots left to spy on. Such name calling will not stop since its so easy to say. Plus, we think accusing someone of being a chinese agent will inflict the most damage to his already low self – esteem. Of course, there must be some Chinese agents in our midst. Which would mean the ass could be half way right.
Thokmey, White writ large? Say it isnt so. Although they both exaggerate with profound buddhist honesty, the two are not one. I actually think White is the Special Representative of H. H. the Dalai Lama to JamyangNorbu.com. He’s annoying because he’s pissed-off he wasn’t selected as the special rep to Japan.
I’d pay to see a sumo-wrestler sit on him.
I salute to Thupten Thokmey’s courageous stand on Shugden issue. However, his subsequent comment on lukar Jam and attack on RTYC are not at all agreeable. It’s all his stupidity. Acting as a moral police; a volunteer; some sort of a self-appointed monitor. Who is he to decide what is right and wrong. He better shut his mouth off now onwards.
Explosive Breaking News Video – Lukar Jam, Sikyong candidate speaks his mind. Jamyang Norbu la, what do you think about this. I do not find it democratic to kill all who do not conform to someone’s view. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3H54JJTZ4
157
You said, “The struggle for a nation can go on for centuries”. Do you really think our situation inside Tibet and outside Tibet permit to continue our struggle for centuries? Do your kids speak Tibetan properly? I doubt. There is a trend now that young Tibetans inside Tibet prefer to speak Chinese than Tibetan. What we have today, hope inside Tibet and platform outside Tibet where man like Lukar Jam can complain is the result of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s tireless work in the last 60 years. Literally His Holiness brought us back life from dead. For whatever reason, His Holiness managed to hold us together until now. Just like you guys distrust Zamdhong Rinpoche and Lobsang Sangye, no matter who becomes our head there will be lots of distrust among our society. Most Tibetan communities in the West, only less than 25% of the population contribute Green Book.
158-Ling Gesar
Lhargen and traitor are not disagreement.
159-Mr educated
So far I have written many comments in this blog. Show me one sentence that indicates your accusation. “I -am-holier-than-thou attitudes. In reality, his tone betrays thuggish behavior. ( Rangzen followers needs to be stoned to death attitude)”?
“Modern education”?
“1. Fighting for Tibet’s independence.”
Are you fighting? Give me examples? Please fight against China not people like me. What have you done so far? You need to get Rangzen from China Not Dalai Lama.
“2. Refusing to accept Tibet is part of China.”
You can refuse anything you like but whole world accept Tibet being part of China. Are you going to fight against the whole world?
“3 . Accepting China’s rule ( middle way or umae lam)”
If China gives me option Rangzen vs MWA, for sure I will go for Rangzen just like any Tibetans would but such option does not exist.
The question is not about what we like vs what we don’t like as you portrayed. The question is about what we can get and cannot get based on our circumstances.
“Q.2: What do you call people who give up freedom struggle and surrenders to one’s enemy and accept their rule? 1. Patriots: 2. Traitors”
Traitor is characterized by some sort of self-interest. What are the interests here? Did Dalai Lama say Tibet is part of China? If what you have said is true, why China is not celebrating? Why China is still keep printing White Paper Book on Tibet?
Province of Quebec in Canada had two independence referendums to be independent nation but majority of people decided to stay with Canada. Is this an act of traitor? How about Scottish independence referendum? Is this act of traitor? Many independent referendums are voted NO by majority? Is this act of traitor?
Everything does not fit in a same container.
Kunchok :
People like Thokmey and his type of many manifestations are doing this because they are encouraged to do it. When they speak it is couched as straight forward talk, exercise of democratic rights. But they are doing this in return for high praise or some gain, which could include even guarantee of faster entry to heaven.
It is same with Shugden followers, they are doing what they are doing, either because they are paid by their Chinese masters or they believe, they can win a lotto jackpot and become rich overnight or couldn’t stomach because some idiots belittle their beliefs as equivalent to smoking or they like the fanatics above think they could gain a speedier entry to heaven.
Only wisdom I see in His Holiness preaching against Shugden is His Hoiliness’ voice of opposition or stand against their religious intolerance against other sect of Tibetan Buddhism or othe form of Buddhism. But, the way it is being opposed, it is like walking on a slippery slope. But then, what can many of the mortal like us who are holding what they believe , a one-way ticket to hell,would know?
So now, the wise men who have command over “not just over some goegraphic area ” but beyond the realm of our grasp (as some of the fanatics here put it) resolve this problem. The Smartest politician here is Sikyong Lobsang Sangay. Pema Chhonjor and him stayed as far away from this issue fearing a law suit against them when they return to enjoy their U.S. Citizenship.
Jamyang la please post my comment
White :
You should re-read what Mr.eductated as you put it wrote. Before you react and thereby expose yourself as swallow and nut-case that would need not a single pyscotherapist but whole institute to study your thought processes, you should understand the meaning of important words like ” attitudes” and ” tones”.
You are not even worthy of a rejoinder. Instead of wasting the proverbial paper, we better use it to wipe our ass.
Sadly we are few participants fighting with ourselves for how this should be that. future tibetan govt in exile, hence so small world, smaller people and smalleSt our being.
tibetans are endangered species… or about to become.
like the crabs in a vessel, and tomrw is only one left. rest all put to re
st… perhaps that crab is one of us or the sickest sikyong…although cobwebbed by Chinese, nicely.
@White: Comparing Quebec with that of Tibet is the gross mistake because of so many reasons. I will cite few of them.
1: China is not a democratic country while Canada is.
2: Quebec referendum was defeated through popular vote while in Tibet, Tibetans never had or will have right to vote for the referendum even the basic rights of Tibetans are denied or at least curtailed.
3: French is the official language of not only Quebec province but also whole of Canada – while Chinese is imposed on Tibetans in Tibet and Chinese officials posted in Tibet do no learn Tibetan rather they force the Tibetans to learn Chinese and use it. Only Tibetan Chinese know is Kill (SOD).
4: People in Quebec decide the laws, education, business and even the immigration policies while for the people living in Quebec province while in Tibet it is decided by Beijing and Chinese in Tibet.
5: Quebecker decide who their premier, MP and all elected public officials while in Tibet it is decided by Beijing or Chinese living in Tibet.
6: While Tibetans have been living in Tibet since the civilization began in Tibet, most of the people living in Canada are immigrant from Europe who came to Canada after the Christopher Columbus discovered Americas. Only about 4% of Canada is Native People or First Nation while in Tibet it was 99.999% Tibetan before 1950.
To sum up using Quebec as the analogy to Tibet is the height of ignorance. Quebec situation is often used by Chinese officials to silence Western world whenever human rights or Tibet issue is talked about.
Personal attacks and accusing people without any bases, senseless assumptions are signs of weakness. For example, these are not rational argument to make such statements “People like Thokmey and his type of many manifestations are doing this because they are encouraged to do it” and “But they are doing this in return for high praise or some gain, which could include even guarantee of faster entry to heaven”. Does this sound like reasoned argument?
Let’s check this one, “stand against their religious intolerance against other sect of Tibetan Buddhism or othe form of Buddhism” Is Shugden worshiping “other sect of Tibetan Buddhism or other form of Buddhism”? They are not. Let me lay down my rational grounds. In short, small fraction of Gelugpas practice Shugden but it does not belong to Gelug School. All these Major Gelug monasteries, Drepung, Ghaden, Sera, Gyutoe, Guemey, Tashi Lhunpo have their own protector deities but it is not Shugden. Shugden is never practiced by whole assembly of any of these monasteries. Shugden came into existence after 200 years of Lama Tsongkapa and his main disciples and never mentioned anywhere in their text book. Moreover, vast majority of Gelugpa masters either rejected critically or avoided the subject. In such a situation how can anybody claim it is part of Gelugpa practice?
Shugden practice is popularized by Phaphongkha Rinpoche and many of his well-known students that includes Trijang Rinpoche. This is justification and validation by Shugden worshippers. There are overwhelming reasons why Shugden practice is not an authentic Buddhist practice for such reasons His Holiness refused to ride bandwagons.
Smoker’s justification and validation: many great human beings have smoked, many smokers had longevity without any health issues, its personal choice, it’s my body, smoking is same as drinking liquor and list goes on.
Buddha and his followers have taught so many profound teachings. In relation to this, worshiping any protector deities is not even essential. So you have to wonder why these people are so attached to worshiping such a controversial deity right from its existence.
Lukar Jam does not care what happens to Buddhism so for him this is matter of a conflict between two parties. People, who do not care about environment, naturally are not going to see environment issues we face.
Did I hear right that Lukar Jam is going to kill “traitors” which he defined as people who do not seek independent Tibet? If he doesn’t stop this kind of stupidity, he can see the jail house instead of Sikyong. I heard Canada refused to issue visa for him. You have to wonder why?
There he goes again. White gets another chance to talk Shugden, one of his much loved musings. I notice he has three or four themes he repeatedly discharges as if they are a part of his daily bowel movement. He’s got the Dalai Lama card, then there is the anti Atheist rants.. and this new thing — those lame smoker analogies.
White must think if someone don’t contest his idiocy then he is stating hardcore facts.
While I am no expert, I think the smoking debate has more to to do with the air rather than one’s individual health/body. For instance, one has a right to smoke but not to pollute our shared air, which 2nd hand smoking is said to violate.
Ofcourse in your own place, you can make it a smoke free zone, but not in someone else’s house. If they wish to smoke, comandante White can’t stop them.
I don’t know where White lives, but in Canada, the government do not create anti-smoking laws out of the blue or out of some religious excuse. The smoking debate took place over many years, on media, in colleges; locally, regionally and nationally.
In a benign democracy there’s always a tension between what’s good for the group/society and what’s good for the individual who is part of that social fabric.
Based on your idol, Lukar Jam’s defination “People who ever rejects independence or not seek for independence is a traitor. One of your fellow here elaborated further “people who give up freedom struggle and surrenders to one’s enemy and accept their rule” is a traitor.
Does these definition apply to people of Quebec?
White :
You don’t need to lecture us and insult our intelligence. Just ask Google Rinpoche. Punch in the word traitor and ask for the definition of the word. If you feel ashamed,take your computer to bathroom, lock the door, switch off the light and then read. Bear in mind, when future historians have to write Tibet’s history, there won’t be able to sugar-coat it in any other way.
Before you really get mad with me for calling the spade, the spade, I assure you that if you are able to change the definition of this important word by bullying Google, like you are doing here, I will build a statue in your honor and worship you as real hero. Can you do that?
Tenzin La
I did exactly what you asked me to do (typed in google) and I get following.
traitor= a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
betray= expose (one’s country, a group, or a person) to danger by treacherously giving information to an enemy.
Which means word traitor stands for: a person who expose one’s country to danger by treacherously giving information to an enemy.
Does it talk about not seeking independence as Lukar Jam indicated? NO
Even in Tibetan Gyal-tsongpa which mean a person who sale one’s own country. Did Dalai Lama sale Tibet? What did he get? When you sale something you supposed to get something back otherwise it is not a sale.
Lukar Jam and his supporters can cook up lots of stuff to slander His Holiness and say it is freedom of speech.
Choephel Thupten, a tainted official who have a record of fund embezzlement charges at Kugyar Office, was arbitrarily appointed by Lobsang Sangay to the post of Chief Representative, Bangalore. Youngdrung Tenzin, a student at Bangalore, complained of this unlawful appointment in writing to various authorizes at Dharamsala. On knowing this, Choephel Thupten summoned Youngdrung in office and warned to withdraw the complaint, and threaten with dry consequences if not obeyed. And a pre-drafted apology letter was forced to sign. And the very next day, the same signed apology letter was found posted in Lobsang Sangay’s facebook.
This is Goondaraj, what exactly happen in India’s local dirty power struggle politics, hiring Goons to remain in power. Choephel Thupten’s appointment is arbitrary, an abuse of his office, misuse and exploitation of power; It’s a rape of our democracy and an insult to Tibetan people.
This is just one instances of Lobsang Sangay’s dark deeds. But the the list is endless.
White – read this http://www.tibet.org/openletter/
CTA shamday shu-shou ge dho go!
Jamyang Norbu – la,
Please put up the link posted by YOUNG PUNK as full -fledge article on your blog. It is extremely important. I am grateful to all of them. Thank You. Thanks young punk for keeping us posted.
White :
I offer you a deal. Stop dragging His Holiness the Dalai Lama in every discussion and I won’t challenge you in any of your meaningless comment. Both you and I know that we are writing here not to change each other’s opinion but not let each other’s opinion. Influence other readers. You know, you are not wnning, instead exposing yourself and your fellow travelers as intolerant Idiota. I know there are far better arguement for middle-pathers to put up, which you are not able to.
I am a proud follower of His Holiness the Dalai Lama who can defend Him at any length, but you are a blind follower who, while trying to defend His Holiness the Dalai Lama, is making Him look very intolerant and undemocract figure. So, don’t do this, which is not helpful. Instead, go back and read some good book.
Read Aung San Suu Kyi’s book : ” Freedom from Fear” I am planning to read the same for longtime.
150.Tenzin la I have put up the Protest letter by Tibet Supporters. JN
I support Lukar Jam. He is a true son of Tibet. Dalai Lama is my root guru. He has done a great deal for Tibetan cause. Lately, he is our spiritual leader and has retired from political life. I think he deserves a rest. Thats why I am against incumbent Sikyong’s continued reliance on His Holiness. It only shows his incompetence, insecurity and lack of leadership. Lukas Jam did not say His Holiness is a traitor. He did not say his father was a traitor. He only meant to say they had no blame whatever path they pursued. It was all for Tibet in the end. So what Lukar Jam called His Holiness Largen. His Holiness probably won’t mind it. He is very humble. I don’t think His Holiness wants to be looked upon as a totalitarian leader. That is not his style. So those Tibetans who criticize new thinking in our society in the name of His Holiness is doing a disservice to His Holiness. Blind faith and ignorance is not the legacy of His Holiness. Lukas Jam is a true follower of His Holiness. Thank you.
Unfortunately, my experience on this blog has not been positive one for many reasons. I felt people here don’t even know what debate stands for. They are more focused on personal attack, aggression, using some fancy English words and making statements without any rational grounds. They are not even aware that when you call to someone “idiot” you put yourself at the bottom of the human species. Anybody can get nasty including myself. In fact, that’s the easiest thing to do. Surprisingly, these people claim for being educated, patriotic, open minded, liberal, democratic, free from religious defects, free thinker and all the other nice words you can come up with.
You guys can label me with any name you like; I will not back down from defending His Holiness the Dalai Lama, our beloved leader, national identity and symbol of nation. My defense won’t be the same as that of (181-TENZIN) which is invisible something like Star War Rader defense. This person would like to compare struggle for democracy in country of Myanmar with our freedom struggle against China. Isn’t it like comparing sun and the soccer ball in your hand? Both has sphere shape does not mean they can be compared.
What we need in our society today is a nobility, civility and respect despite of all the differences in political view. Man like Lukar Jam lack all these characters.
The main conspirator of this scheme is Jamyang Norbu and his a handful of malcontents and rabble-rousers who always take habitual tactics of standing facts on their heads and of a thief crying “stop thief” and conventionally play the game of “The devil rebukes sin.”
“If you can, help others; if you canot do it, at least don’t harm them.”
What have those so called “Supporters” done for the cause of Tibet? Not really much. They might have claimed to have done something for it, but the reality tells something else: Tibet is still under China’s control and Tibetans are being locked inside Tibet; and having been in exile for more than 6 decades, the only thing the Tibetans outside can do is to helplessly shout some rhetorical slogans to vent some sort of anger and frustration on the occasions of March 10th rally or such resembling rallies.
Perhaps the following piece by Mr. Gyalo Thondup will be the best answer to this so-called Open Letter:
[All my life, I have only one regret: my involvement with the CIA. Initially, I genuinely believed that the Americans wanted to help us fight for our independence. Eventually, I realized that was not true. It was misguided and wishful thinking on my part. The CIA’s goal was never independence for Tibet. In fact, I do not think that the Americans ever really even wanted to help. They just wanted to stir up trouble, using the Tibetans create misunderstandings and discord between China and India. Eventually, they were successful in that. The 1962 Sino-Indian bordern
war was one tragic result.
What good was that support from the CIA? Not much. In reality, all the CIA did was to train a few people and drop them and a few arms into Tibet. The arms they sent were never even nearly enough. If the United States had really wanted to help, the least they could have done would have been to supply enough arms and equipment for the Tibetans to put up a good fight. But the resistance fighters did not even have enough weapons to do that. For this, I still resent the United States.
Our Cooperation with the CIA provoked the Chinese, providing them the excuse they needed for launching massive reprisals against both the resistance fighters and the Tibetan people. Tens of thousands of Tibetans were killed as a result. My role with the CIA still weighs heavily on my conscience. I have remained silent about this for decades, too. But now I have to tell the truth. Our cooperation with the CIA was wrong. We should not have taken even the paltry support the CIA offered. If we had not collaborated with the CIA, if we had not taken the little bit of assistance with CIA was willing to give, the Chinese would not have had an excuse to kill so many Tibetans. Our collaboration led to the deaths of many, many innocent people. It was not only our people the Chinese killed. They tried to kill our culture, too. What I did by working with the CIA contributed to the complete destruction of the Tibetan culture. This reality causes me terrible pain. This is what has haunted me for so many years. This is what is on my conscience. I cannot get those events out of my mind. I feel guilty. This is my great regret.]
The above has been extracted from the book called “The Noodle Maker of Kalimpong” by Gyalo Thondup, the brother of HH the Dalai Lama. (Page 296 and 297)
Wisdom from Idiota called WHITE :
” So you have to wonder why these people are so attached to worshiping such a controversial deity (shugden) right from its existence.? ”
Does he know a there is a thing called ” individual rights” ” religious freedom” enshrined in constitution and universal declaration of human rights?
” They are more focused on personal attack, aggression, using some fancy English words and making statements without any rational grounds. They are not even aware that when you call to someone “idiot” you put yourself at the bottom of the human species. Anybody can get nasty including myself.”
Aggression? Idiota is a Spanish word for person behaving in a stupid way. What else should I call you. If you think I will compose songs in your name and order thangkas for you, you are truly hallucinating.
” What we need in our society today is a NOBILITY, CIVILITY and RESPECT despite of all the differences in political view. Man like Lukar Jam lack all these characters.”
Go back read all your post. Do any of those sounds like a specimens of “nobility”? What Is he saying? His attacks and accusations are all holy blessings and Lukar Jam’s argument are not “civilized”. And he is the embodiment of ” nobility civility and respect”?
There is a Tibetan proverb taught very early in kindergarten students which goes something like this :
” Shen la Thawe Mig Yoe Nga, Rang la Thawe Melong Ghoe.”
Which can be translated thus: ” If you have eyes to find fault in others,/ You must look into mirror to see your own defects.”
Tibetan communities are never able to mature to its full potential just because of these Taliban like him. And he thinks he is riding on white horse and taking the moral high ground? Ha Ha Ha! What a topsy-turvy world we are living in.
White says he is no idiot. And the multi-verse spontaneously bursted into fits of uncontrollable laughter.
Obviously you guys enjoy somebody calling idiot. Lets be it. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”-Edmund Burke
184-Tenzin
“Does he know a there is a thing called ” individual rights” ” religious freedom” enshrined in constitution and universal declaration of human rights?”
Lets see who has rights?
Go to the Church and try to perform Buddhist rituals.
If shugden followers have right to practice, we have a right to refuse. So what are you talking about?
For example, followers of Mormonism claim and believe they are Christian but main stream Christians does not accept that so the Mormons had to go with their own way, without mixing with mainstream Christianity. Now imagine if Mormons insist they want to mingle with rest of the Christian people just like everybody else and they don’t want to go separate way? What do you is going to happen?
If Shugden followers have the right to believe in Shugden than we have the right not to believe in Shugden. It is religious freedom vs religious freedom so what are you going to do?
Nobody goes to Shugden home and tell them not to practice.
WHITE wrote :
“Lets see who has rights?
Go to the Church and try to perform Buddhist rituals.”
Why should Buddhist go to church to perform Buddhist rituals? I thought church is where Christians pray. What is the relevance here? And yet, he blames us for rightfully, bestowing him the title of chief of Idiota.
Let us dissect yet another of his wisdom:
” If Shugden followers have the right to believe in Shugden than we have the right not to believe in Shugden. It is religious freedom vs religious freedom so what are you going to do?”
Are you sure, Shugden followers are forcing YOU to practice Dogyal worship? If they are doing this to YOU , then I am with you. Yes, you have every ” right not to believe in shugden.”
I am extremely sorry that I didn’t know shugden group has forced YOU to practice shugden. But are you sure, they have done this to YOU. Pinch yourself , and first make sure that you are not hallucinating.
It is completely new to me. I didn’t know and I think it is news for others too. But, don’t change your story and say that YOU didn’t say any of this. I have always quoted you correctly and challenged your logic. You have accused me of making up the things. But I believe, you are the one who is telling fairy tales.
If you are doing this as a part of your English writing assignment,I give you C-. You are all over. Your arguement has to be logical.
White quotes Edmund Burke :
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”
By quoting that, he is trying to claim that he is a “good man”! From all his writing, does he look like a “good man”? How can such an intolerant, narrow minded man like him claim that he is “good man”?
Shugden worshipers may be misguided, but evil? Yet, people like him call China is different! OMG!
White wrote:
“My defense won’t be the same as that of (181-TENZIN) which is invisible something like Star War Rader defense.”
Defending His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a joy. I have done in multiple times both in writing,speech and yes, by standing up for Him against China sponsored anti-Dalai Lama shugden protest.
But unlike you, I have defended His Holiness the Dalai Lama against China. Actually, that is where your, mine and others energy should be . But morons ( just an another ” fancy word ” for idiot) like you have totally can the meaning of word ” ENEMY” !
Tenzin
May I see your defense of His Holiness? Don’t tell me google it. I am simply asking you the evidence. Does that make me idiot?
I may not be the best person in the world but I am confident to say that I am better than many of you here who do not hesitate to call somebody idiot. If you still think I am a bad person with the wrong view, show me one evidence that justify your claim.
Your comment in 187 has some points and let me rebuttal your argument. Absolutely argument has to be logical otherwise it is empty. At least we agree on something. If you want to show off your English, I admit I am not your opponent but I am confident to say that my English is good enough to express my views and concerns without any confusion.
I am sure you don’t believe in consumption of illegal drugs. Would you have problem with hanging out with drug addict? would you have problem with drug addicts hanging around your Children? Would you have problem with marrying with drug addict? Now if I ask you why do you have a problem because they are not forcing you to consume drugs?
Practicing Shugden is something I don’t believe right thing to do, in fact it is wrong based on countless reasons. Neither it is authentic Buddhist teaching nor Lama Tsongkapa’s teaching and it has been proven. It is my right to defend teachings of Buddha as pure as it could and if I believe anybody trying to pollute his teachings at lease I want to keep them out of my life.
May be Buddhist teaching means nothing to you but it means a life to vast majority of Tibetan people.
Having said that it is not my business what people do with their life. They can worship Shugden and claim it is Jesus Christ teaching as long as they keep it for themselves. It is up to the individual. This is called freedom of religion. We agree on this don’t we?
Now you wrote to answer my question, “Why should Buddhist go to church to perform Buddhist rituals?” May be they don’t have a temple around them, may be they don’t have any other place where they can perform rituals. For whatever reason the question is why not? What happen to the freedom of religion? Exactly, freedom of religion does not mean you can worship anything you want and anywhere you want. Why Shugden followers complain for not allowing to come to receive teachings of Dalai Lama while they don’t want to follow his guidance? Why are they seeking non-shugden follower endorsement? If you want to live with us, participate with us, practice with us you must follow the rules. If anybody want to become members of any organization in this world, must follow the rules and regulations of the organizations. If you don’t want to follow the rules only option is to leave. It has nothing to do with freedom of any kind.
I am sure you will do the same with drug addict scenario I created. The person must not be a bad one but you have a problem with what he or she does in their life. Now if drug addict person insist to come around your life, what would you do?
“It is my right to defend teachings of Buddha as pure as it could and if I believe anybody trying to pollute his teachings at lease I want to keep them out of my life.” – White.
White, I hope you are doing your best to speak against Tulku system, which is not part of “pure” teachings of Buddha.
@ 191 Tibetans have added Spirit worship aka Lha Sung propitiation and Trulku system as an amendment to the original teaching of Buddha.
Doctor Jamnor La.
i wanna translate this article into Tibetan. So here i am asking you the permission
ist Okey?
from Jamzang
Dear Jamzang la, Sure go ahead and translate it. Good Luck. Jamyang
@ 186 Sharpyakhorn
Besides HHDL, the only other group of people i see that do anything of substance for Tibet are the activists who are mostly Rangzen advocates. The rest all function ditto Sikyong Lobsang Sangay’s platform of Survival. Survive? really? how basic can you get after all these years of HHDL’s tireless work.
And what was your point in writing that whole thing about Gyalo Thondup and CIA? Is that an appeasement policy to the CCP?
Thanks Jamyang Norbu La.
You will see the translation on Khabddha or times of Tibet(web) very soon.
Thanks
As we head for primary elections Sunday, October 18, 2015, let’s us consider the following before the final voting March 20, 2015:
Incumbent Sikyong LS and incumbent Tsogtso PT are at each other’s throat as supposedly for runners.
In the latest interviews, Pempa Tsering has accused Lobsang Sangay of violating rules and regulations of CTA, reminding himself about Zamdhong Rinpoche’s respect for the Tibetan charter, and rule of law. He took issues with Sikyong’s lack of trust among the bureaucrats and promised to restore respect and confidence of the CTA staff. These veiled accusations must be scrutinized and laid out, and sooner the better.
Meanwhile, the Sikyong, fearing stiff challenge from the chairman, didn’t want to miss the opportunity to reconnect with TYC. He, therefore, made sure he visited the hunger strikers an tried to win their hearts on his way to the United States.
Immediately, after landing in New York, his associates leaked what is being described as a conclusive report on Tibetan human trafficking scam being run by one Thinly Kalsang, as the front man, and Lhaka Tsering, as the mastermind, and linking them to the grand ring leader Amdo Lobsang Phuntok.
The damaging link is chairman Pempa Tsering’s alleged involvement in the this illegal ring.
If this sordid affairs turn out to be true, Pempa Tsering is done and gone. He is sure to face investigation come next round of parliament.
Remember him boycotting the last parliament session on alleged charges of murder long time ago. He recently promised that we would never boycott the parliament. Let’s wait to see what happens in three months. My gut feeling is that he might withdraw from the race altogether!
Sikyong himself is broiled with a host of hostile issues he has either refused or not sufficiently answered them or ignore them
His mortage issue remains to be fully answered.
His China trip continues to bother voters even now. His gumption to declare that Tibetans never head a nation country cries to response. His past efforts in and outside the parliament have not satisfied the public.
When asked again about it, he claims he has cleared the case with the people. Not true. This has become a sticking issue that his opponents are using to exploit. Few or no one is buying his China stance although he is looking more like a Chinese every day (it is because he was born so close of mainland China, like His Holiness). My take: He should have the gut to say sorry to the people before it is too late.
There is nothing like humility against arrogance.
As for Lukar Jam, he too needs to show his humility by respecting voter’s anger about his style of addressing His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Right or wrong, good or bad, people are very forgiving by nature. Apologize where it is due before it becomes too late.
The man has struck am umbilical cord with the populace, and earned respect his bravery to come forward where lesser souls dare not tread.
His appeal is universal both in and outside Tibet. Those in his home town and the rest of Tibet have no voting rights, but they are sending a soul searching appeal to those in exile to support Lukar in his quest for Rangzen.
He has managed by his sophistication to reignite a fire brand of nationalism amongst the youth who are the majority now. But even amongst his sworn supporters, they are those who fear his misguided onslaught of the CTA might backfire.
As I said in others’case, Lukar needs to realize the mental acumen of his followers and learn to say sorry if his diction is hurting them.
Remember, it is dangerous to be right when the system is wrong and beyond redemption. Words have meaning and matter, and they are consequences.
Tashi Wangu is quietly campaigning. Tashi Topyal is getting his due share of media attention. Things will shakeup after the primary.
Tashi Topgyal was asked whom he would vote if he fails to get to the final. Tashi Wangdu, he answered with hesitation.
Pempa Tsering has declared not to share a debate with Lukar Jam, leave alone voting for him.
Losang Sangay, choosing to reserve the secrecy of the ballot, cautioned other candidates to restrain from criticizing His Holiness the Dalai Lama, a sure short at Lukar Jam.
Lukar Jam remain the favorite dark horse by miles.
The new candidate aren’t impressive at all.p.tsering with his love for alcohol..lukar the no brainer whom people have difficulty to process what he is saying..and t.wang with his village boy approach.and the unknown guy who still is unknown. Where are those under 40 young guns qualified to lead us? May be in the next election!!
Tall, vote for Lukar so that we can process his message together. Will you?
Precisely, we easily have concluded how many Tibetans are ani-Tibet and how many are pro-HH Dalai Lama in exile.
But one, if Tibetan, should not forget that Lukar Jam is asking your democratic vote for six million Tibetans in Tibet, not for his own fame and benefit. Whereas Dr. Lobsang Sangay and Penpa Tsering are requesting your undemocratic vote for protection of HH Dalai Lama and 110,000 Tibetans in exile. Now, it is your own analytical decision who you elect next Sikyong. But do not regret your action for Tibet, our only motherland.
Sarlang…I will pass…no vote this time which means whoever wins got my vote.lukar is alien
Mr. Jamyang Norbu.
Don’t try to be a man of hero. You cannot hide all the shadows! Sun will remain shine and HHDL would please for what he had done. So far, you are dancing so much….now it’s too much. You are enough for us. Enough is enough. Samsara is waiting for your visit with lugar Jam and some of your brainless friends!
Mr. Jamyang Norbu.
Don’t try to be a man of hero. You cannot hide all the shadows! Sun will remain shine and HHDL would please for what he had done. So far, you are dancing so much….now it’s too much. You are enough for us. Enough is enough. Samsara is waiting for your visit with lugar Jam and some of your brainless friends!
I suspect Smile is a fifth grade parasite of the yore. Show your true colors if you are a man. Your name should not not Smile an Cry.
Well, with the election results filtering in,
we can definitively say that Jamyang Norbu, Lukar Jam and their loud, brash cohorts are simply a small minority of Tibetans. Don’t get me started on the loudmouthed white Rangzen supporters telling us how to act and do things. The squeaky wheel gets the grease is very apt for this lot of disrespectful types. They are so loud and well organized on the internet, that they give the impression that they speak for 50% of Tibetans at least. Hogwash! Given the election results were seeing, I’m betting they finish no higher than 15%, and that’s stretching it. I hope you use the election results as a barometer of your persistent and illogical demands Jamyang and friends.
…additionally, Jamyang la, why don’t you employ a new tactic other than blaming the old for supporting the middle way and being closed minded, while framing Rangzen advocates as being liberal minded and young. ALWAYS! There’s obviously tons of youth that support the middle way. And guess what? Were just as Tibetan as you. Your so overtly disrespectful and annoying. Always prodding, prodding, prodding. Get a new attitude bro. Write with some awareness of how your affecting others, or maybe that’s what you want.
Son of Tibet, you sounds more like the Death of Tibet, the significance of which I doubt is beyond you, at least for life time.
Your no-brain-blind freaking faith prompts to you to attach people like JM and Lukar Jam although you have no idea of what tomorrow will bring.
Like you, let me go crazy here for a moment for your. May be Lukar Jam and Jamyang Norbu modern day reincarnation of Lungshar and Gedun Choephel!!!
Remember Lang Darma is no long Lang Darma now.
India’s Buddhas had just five disciple when the enlightelnd began his universal teachings.
although ukase is out of election still I will admire the man who has tried doing so much for his countrymen inside Tibet.
“These days when trendy liberal types in the West talk about overcoming tragedy and loss, they insist on using the facile word “closure.” Whether it’s the death of a loved one, a national catastrophe, or more often than not, a divorce, closure is supposed to be what we need to heal and get on with our lives. But if you survive something truly horrendous, the reality is that there is no such thing as closure. Nightmares never end in the real world.
Some years ago (2010, I think it was) I was at a talk given by two of (the fourteen) “singing nuns of Drapchi ” who in prison secretly recorded songs that described their suffering in prison, demanded freedom for Tibet and praised the Dalai Lama. Ngawang Sangdrol and Choeying Kunsang, told their harrowing story to a young audience of largely SFT members, and quietly described the horrendous price they paid for their defiance of Chinese authority. At the conclusion of the talk someone asked this question. “Have you managed to get over it all? Do you sometimes remember your terrible experience in prison?”
I think it was Choeying la who replied, in a voice so soft that it was barely audible: “Every night when I fall asleep I dream of being back in prison.” My blood ran cold.”
These lines gave me chills
Lukar Jam ** Auto correct mistakes
” Every night i fall asleep i dream of being back in prison”
That is one of the symptoms of PTSD. I’m sure many of our brothers and sisters who’ve been tortured and imprisoned experience symptoms like this. Our religious ethos may be providing a buffer against severe PTSD and also the fact that it is for a cause, somehow lessens the trauma impact on one’s psyche. I’m hoping that most go on to function normally.