DISCUSSING SCENARIOS, STRATEGIES & STRUCTURES FOR TIBET’S INDEPENDENCE STRUGGLE
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On March 11 & 12 in New York City, the Rangzen Alliance convened a Roundtable to initiate a discussion on the possible scenarios the Tibetan issue might encounter in the near future; and also the structures that must be created and the strategies that must be formulated to advance and ultimately achieve the goal of Tibetan Independence.
Sixty-two participants from India, Japan, Switzerland, Germany, Italy and from such cities and states in North America as Toronto, Montreal, Amherst, Boston, Los Angeles, Colorado, Vermont, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Connecticut, Indiana, New York, New Jersey, Virginia, Washington DC, Michigan and Tennessee, gathered for the discussions.
Attendance at the conference was by invitation only. The delegates were not only the familiar Tibet activists and university students, but doctors, lawyers, designers, writers, journalists, university professors, poets, professional musicians, filmmakers, artists, industrialists, former government officials, former members of the resistance and others who, despite their different backgrounds, shared a common and overriding concern for the future of the Tibetan freedom struggle. All participants paid their own travel expenses and made their own living arrangements in New York.
In his introductory talk the Spokesman for the Rangzen Alliance, Jamyang Norbu stated, “This conference is being held amid the escalating crisis in Tibet and the recent spate of self-immolations, which appears to be just the visible tip of a far greater unrest spreading across the plateau.” Norbu further added, “In such a volatile situation, it is conceivable that a window of opportunity might present itself for the advancement of the Tibetan struggle.” Norbu made a reference to Tibetan history when exactly a hundred years on the 26th of March 1912 the Tibetans formally declared war and after nearly a year of hard and brutal fighting, the Chinese surrendered, and Tibet became an independent nation.
The first presentation was made by the President of the Tibetan Youth Congress, Tsewang Rigzin, who talked in detail about the crisis inside Tibet, and the efforts by the TYC to bring world attention to the tragedy. He mentioned the hunger strike taking place before the United Nation by three brave Tibetans. One of the hunger-strikers, Shingsa Rimpoche, sent the conference a symbolic khatag, and his regret that he could not attend personally. He expressed his full support for the event.
The vice-president of the Gu-Chu-Sum Movement of Political prisoners, Mr. Lukar Jam made a presentation by video on China’s policy twists and turn on Tibet. Another presentation by video skype was made by attorney, Nyima la, from Washington DC, on the need for Tibetans to create a national political organization for the freedom struggle. A presentation was also made by the well-known freedom activist Tenzin Tsundue la.
After two days of discussions, moderated by Tenzin Dorjee of Students for a Free Tibet, Lhadon Tethong of Tibet Action Institute, and Tenzin Tsundue, the conference resolved to create a new movement for the Rangzen Struggle, and also set up three special committees to work on the implementation of the resolutions that had been arrived at after two days of deliberations.
What does ‘a new movement’ mean? Isn’t it a no brainer that we need a Rangzen political party -like yesterday?
This is long overdue. Hope something will come out of it.
I want to see and hear more about…
(1) how we (exiles) are going to connect Tibetans inside Tibet? through internet, need detailed and actionable plans. perhaps, build a massive, knowledgeable, easy-use, internet portals in Tibetan and then we can have control information and knowledge. If we do have such website outside, I am sure all Tibetans inside will jump from the great firewall of china to access the information because people are hungry for information.
(2) how are we going to campaign effectively?, I would suggest we collect email address, telephone numbers and fax numbers of chinese government offices, military and officials in Tibet . Specially, we should collect chinese official and business people’s personal contact information and call them directly.
More ideas are coming…
Some incredible groundwork has been laid by our Jewish colleagues.
1. The US Dept. of Justice’s Human Rights & Special Prosecutions Section (http://www.justice.gov/criminal/hrsp/) tracks down war criminals and other human rights violators and prosecutes them or deports them. There’s no reason this can’t apply to violators operating for the People’s Republic of China.
2. In October the US Department of Justice arrested a Syrian-American for collecting information on Syrians protesting *in the United States* against the Syrian government’s crackdown on the pro-democracy movement. How many PRC citizens have photographed a Tibetan protest? Saoueid was charged with six offenses, including “serving as a foreign agent without registering.”
It all began in July with numerous Syrian-Americans bringing detailed complaints to the Justice Department’s head of diplomatic security. That complaints stated that Syrians, overseen by the Syrian ambassador to the US, “have been conducting video and photographic surveillance of people participating in peaceful demonstrations in the United States.”
Replace “Syrian ambassador” with “PRC ambassador” or “Consulate General” or “Chinese Student Association” and you could, with evidence, apply this exact serious of steps to legally resist what China is doing against Tibetans in the US. To be honest, it’s fair to say China is likely doing it on a massive scale, compared to Syria.
We need names, names, names. I know we have to keep working from a national angle–nation to nation, government to government–but individuals can also be held accountable, not just governments.
Whether in Tibet, or abroad, it is high time individual PRC citizens stopped being “nameless” criminals with zero chance of facing accountability for their actions. The Chinese government is so keen to implement its “Real Name” system; I think it should work both ways.
Looking at the Syrian case, it’s extremely heartening to see that regular citizens of free countries can start the ball rolling. Carry a camera with you when you go to protests. Photograph anyone photographing you. It took the Syrians only three months to go from reporting a problem, to getting a prosecution; I know that will be hard to reproduce, but we can start down the path by getting names and evidence.
3. Declassify US documents relating to Tibet and China. The Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Interagency Working Group “locates, identifies, inventories, and recommends for declassification, currently classified U.S. records relating to Nazi and Japanese Imperial Government war crimes.” One of the main problems with trying to prosecute crimes against Tibetans, is lack of evidence. US government documents would count as strong evidence.
The Tibetan holocaust has lasted something like six times longer than the Jewish holocaust. In the Jewish case, IWG has declassified and opened to the public an estimated 8 million pages of documents, including 1.2 million pages of OSS records; 74,000 pages of CIA name and subject files; more than 350,000 pages of FBI subject files; and nearly 300,000 pages of Army intelligence files.
Certainly after six decades of crimes against Tibetans, we can declassify millions of documents, also, which might bring prosecutions or at least deportations. I think there’s so much we can do, in following our Jewish colleague’s example in some of these matters.
And Syrian!
Sheila…Your so-called Jewish colleagues are only and have only been concerned with Israel. Tibet and Israel are two different worlds. I hope that when the Tibetans are governing themselves in their Tibet that they are not as self-concerned as Israel. Israel reaches out only to those who support Israel…all others are none of their concern.
Regardless of why they did it, our Jewish colleagues have laid 60+ years of legal and procedural groundwork which Tibetans and others can take advantage of. 60+ years of trial and error–not to mention the successful establishment of offices specifically for prosecuting individual war crimes across international borders.
While I have no doubt many Jewish people have helped the Tibetan cause directly, this is not about relying on Jewish individuals to help, but rather relying on the very fine tools which, through their decades of labor, are now in place for all to use.
I do strongly disagree that Jewish people have only been concerned with Jewish rights, though. Simon Wiesenthal was the driving force in getting the first Romani (Gypsy) representative appointed to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council.
The Tibetan case is not going to match up point for point with the Jewish case, but overall, the strategies can absolutely be repeated with regard to Chinese Communist Party criminals who have violated human rights in Tibet and continue to do so, many right at this very moment on US, Canadian, Australian and Indian soil.
Deportation of a PRC official, professor or student may not feel like strong justice, but it is a far cry from letting them continue to commit crimes against Tibetans with zero consequence. As importantly, it might prevent the next Tibetan family from being threatened or having relatives in Tibet threatened by these photographs and documents.
Since the Tibetan holocaust is ongoing, there are both past and current crimes to deal with. This is a huge job, and sadly there may not be enough time or manpower to work on the far past crimes; however, I am always impressed by the fact the Jewish community continues to do so. There is probably no major Nazi killer in the world who does not live looking over his shoulder for someone to arrest him, and that’s the way it should be, imho.
Mark,
Sheila was saying we can learn from jew and syrian,on how they fight crime against them. doesnt mean we have to be like them in every way. you sounds like Jewmophobic.
Ghang-Tuk and Sheila…No…I am talking about Israel as a nation. Israel as a nation is only concerned about Israel. Saying Jews do this and jews do that is like saying Buddhist instead of Tibetan
Mark, the organizations I mentioned are in the US. I’m not talking about asking Israel for help (though that’s not a bad idea either). I’m talking about the fact that Jewish initiatives have collared hundreds of war criminals and by following their strategies, we can, too.
Will the results of the Rangzen Roundtable be published at some point? It sounds like a historic event. I hope we can seize the window of opportunity, and the timing is absolutely amazing. Maybe it’s meant to be that way.
This is the call of duty which rests on every tsampa eating tibetans living in the free world to do something big and result oriented as a part of solidarity movement for our brothers and sisters in occupied tibet who gave up their precious lives for the cause of tibet.So I would like to thank all the think tank members involved in rountable rangtsen alliance.Hope this movement brings about revolution ……Free tibet and bring democracy to china.
I like Sheila’s ideas and I feel like some of it, at least, can be easily accomplished by anybody (taking pictures of the photographers themselves) and others that needs serious thoughts. I have always been amazed and astounded by the deliberateness of their pursuit of Justice – the Jews, I mean. It might seem kind of revenge to our folks but I think it is far more than that. When evil men are persued to the ends of the earth, no matter where they hide, it bears a warning to anybody in the future that there is reprecussions for crimes committed and it shall not be forgotten by them. I believe sometimes we are too eager to forgive and forget when we don’t have the right to do so. Justice must be served, irregardless of time and even if it is cold.
Also, if there are any classified information on Tibet and the atrocities committed there in the archives, it will be worthwhile to pursue that angle too. CIA has files on every nation and with the history it had with Tibet and China, it is highly likely they have huge material on it.
Probably the only advantage a regime like china will offer in the aftermath of this genocide will be the records they have kept on EVERYONE ! To save their killing asses, some of them will definitely deliver the goods needed to nail those that committed the atrocities !
I can imagine that the mainstream will go for a forgive and forget policy but I am sure that those inside Tibet that will have survived and the warriors that had to bear a life in exile will serve justice on these bastards !
The rapists, torturers, killers and those that gave the orders will have to run and hide deep inside china ( if that place still exists ) or in some other rogue state !
If I am still around, I will support those that take on this job !
It’s been interesting going through the Wikileaks cables on Tibet, and that’s just diplomatic cables. Surely there is a wealth of information in the agencies’ documents themselves.
Aside from the individual prosecutions that might become possible with such evidence, there is also the real possibility of increasing the focus on Tibet by highlighting the many atrocities that are still unknown to the general public. Imagine finding detailed discussion of Tsala Kha mine (I think of it as Tsala Kha Death Camp). To me that one always stands out as one of Tibet’s Auschwitzes.
I think if the public and various administrations get an even bigger and more detailed picture of the incredible brutality inflicted by the PRC, it could effect the current relationship. Even though people have a vague idea that “China oppresses Tibetans,” I think it isn’t as clear to them as the Jewish holocaust has become. New documents and stories from declassified documents could bring some painful clarity. Also, there will be a certain amount of pressure when people start to realize, through the documents, how much America and other nations were aware of the Tibetan holocaust, but continued to trade with China as if nothing was wrong. Hopefully this pressure could translate into stronger stances now, to make up for the past, but also out of a new realization of what China is really about.
Attention Tibetan American voters:
—–Republican Presidential Candidate Rommy and PRC regime’s Survellance Video Cameras—–
Firm Romney Founded Is Tied to Chinese Surveillance
(As the Chinese government forges ahead on a multibillion-dollar effort to blanket the country with surveillance cameras, one American company stands to profit: Bain Capital, the private equity firm founded by Mitt Romney.)
“But human rights advocates say in China they are also used to intimidate and monitor political and religious dissidents. “There are video cameras all over our monastery, and their only purpose is to make us feel fear,” said Loksag, a Tibetan Buddhist monk in Gansu Province. He said the cameras helped the authorities identify and detain nearly 200 monks who participated in a protest at his monastery in 2008. ”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/world/asia/bain-capital-tied-to-surveillance-push-in-china.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
At long last. I suppose the details (sensitive issues) of the conference will not be released into the ethers of cyber space & only privy to members of the alliance for now? ‘Round Table’ has a good ring to it.
I like some of SHEILA’s ideas and we should learn from Jewish colleagues, specially their networks and their intelligence gathering capability. However, having said that, we should not compare ourself to Jews. Our big mouths (specially rengzen crowds) don’t have even rudimentary knowledge about china and Tibetans inside Tibet. So, how are we going to do that?
Of course, as usual, talking is easy and cheap.
(1)let’s build a powerful database on these officials, military and police
(2) build a powerful knowledge databank(portals, history and news)
(3)then transmit all these knowledges and news to inside Tibet.
VOA and RFA have had powerful effects on Tibetans who live in rural areas. but Tibetans in cities such as Lhasa and zilang are not accessible to these radios but the most of people do have access to internet. How are we going to connect these people? As a tibetan who was born and grew up in Tibet, this is very important issue for us.
Ugen La,
You have very good suggestions and some very valid questions. However, may I suggest that you go and ask the Tibetan Organization, formerly known as the Tibetan Government in Exile. I mean these things make sense even if we are only seeking to live under the Chinese Communist constitution, otherwise known as the middle-way solution. I am sure you will find some answer from them.
Perfect timing – this just in: Nazi Looted Art Must Be Returned
A Jewish man has won his fight against a German museum for the return of thousands of rare posters stolen from his father by the Nazis in 1938.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17399133
Why not CCP looted art? Why cannot Tibetan art, including religious art, where sometimes it is known which monastery it was looted from, also be on the “illegal to sell” list? I think it can.
Certainly in Beijing there are repositories of now-rare art which is sought by world collectors paying thousands to millions of dollars; speaking of Ugen’s databases, there could be one for monastery relics.
We could have a website dedicated to missing relics; everyone should ask their relatives, elderly neighbors, sangha, what they know about particular monasteries, the pieces of art that used to be there. Those younger people asking them can then post the info on a central website. Even if that’s all that’s done for now, just let the info build up while we figure out how to legally track it down and hopefully reacquire it.
I feel good as some thing positive is in process as titled “DISCUSSING SCENARIOS, STRATEGIES & STRUCTURES FOR TIBET’S INDEPENDENCE STRUGGLE” Jamyang la put it sounds very moving and rock solid. Having said that I see few issues with the meeting and attendees:
1: SFT logo is on the meeting and both the directors are attended the meeting (I think, SFT should make very clear in its stand to all the members because currently there are huge number of Tibetan students from high schools to Universities from all over the world).
2: Some attendees are incumbent board of directors of Tibetan Associations (directly comes under OTNY jurisdiction).
3: I think, “Tibetan National Congress” is goodwill property of six million Tibetans.
KALSANG PHUNTSOK,
you see, this is my problem. I don’t see Tibet issue as in term of binary oppositions. Even if you are rengzen believer , you still need ideological and real politics to achieve the objective . Otherwise, all talks are likes the ccp’s big talks.
Where are they? How?
SHEILA,
it is very good idea indeed, we should build a centralized database on each village, monasteries (the names of people were killed,missing, dates, bio, events)all over Tibet. this should be in three languages (Tibetan/chinese/English) now is time, many witness are still alive.
Puron Dorjee: I don’t think I understand your concern regarding SFT members being there. SFT is for Independence as I am sure you are quite aware, although looking at the description (not totally binding since I don’t know exactly how the meeting was conducted) it would seem like it is another SFT meeting rather than a meeting of Rangzen folks, without preconditions and without the burden of names. Am I understanding you correctly?
And ditto for the other two concerns. I can see where you are going with the Tibetan association members but I don’t quite understand what you mean by Tibetan National Congress?
Ugen la: It would be quite beneficial if you would stop with the finger wagging. Say what you have to say regarding ideas, strategies and what not, but I would refrain from entitling yourself to special status of ‘born in Tibet’ and then engaging in derogatory statements against the Rangzen folks. Frankly, it makes your otherwise lucid statements and ideas tiring and unremarkable when it is dressed in a tutu.
Your idea about having a dedicated portal for Tibetan audience is interesting, although not the first, but how do you propose to get around the Chinese firewall? I believe that is the main problem.
@Tsering Dorjee,
u cannot discuss about your last question publicly..
TSERING DORJEE ,
I see finger pointing is not good thing! but I thought this site was created for precisely doing that. Am I wrong? come on, the ccp can lie to us but we don’t have to lie to ourself.
As I have said may times before, the fighting over for rengzen vs the middle way approach is nothing but is an exile petty politic, it won’t do anything to advance to our cause.
yes, even if we build a massive portal, the ccp is still going to block it. however, we give reasons young people and Tibetans inside Tibet to circumvent the Chinese firewall. believe me, this is much more powerful and practical than anything we hope for. similarly, why we can not have databas? this can be done.
of course, i know my views won’t be popular among rengzen crowds and officials in Dasa. Frankly, they won’t take any suggestions from anyone, specially people from Tibet but they like to give advises and views on everything.
Of course, some of you don’t mind to spend lots of money on advertise on Times Square and to hold these useless rengzen mantra meetings.
Ok, Ugen, be like that then. Noone can say I didn’t try.
So call Chinese “Government” does not seem to be real government in conventional sense that I think of, either it be communist or democratic, kingdom what so ever, at-least to me. It is more like group of legalise mafias who runs the country. Maybe I am wrong, since my knowledge of Chinese government doesn’t go beyond, “they are evil who took and rob my motherland and so on”. But I don’t think I need to dig deeper to understand their nature, the incident of Wang lijun and Bo Xilai’s shows the real face. I am sure everybody here is familiar with this not too old news. I don’t even have to read the whole story. Few pages will unfold true face of their government. The corruptions and power struggle between china youth league and princelings, that drags to the top, including Hu and zang.
Wang lijun and Bo Xilai are known for and build up their carrier to the top by, literally killing falundafa followers. Evil act of organ harvesting on live human, and getting away with these gruesome crime is mind boggling. So far no rightful power in this planet had manage touch them.
My point here is that there is no doubt in my mind that we are dealing with very clever “Gunda”, instead of one’s nation’s “Government”. So I doubt that Dharamsala is a right tool for this particular matter. How can you talk Peace, nonviolence, compassion and rational with Gunda? Doesn’t seem to have much impact on our struggle, other than winning some medals and words of comfort from sympathiser. I could be absolutely wrong and I hope I am wrong. But this is how I perceive with my little head.
We have to come up with new Ideas and strategies. Doesn’t have to be violent, not meant in saintly but I don’t think it will work. I am sure there are many weak points where we can hit hard. Remember year 2008 campaign lead by SFT, was impressive and satisfying. Very well preplan and coordinated, hit hard. Bravo to all the SFTs lead by Lhadon and Tendor. It was completely new way of fighting with no bombs and bullets. Humiliating them is one way and there must be many other.
**Money is their source of power and they are very good at making it on a neck of their own people’s misery. Even greatest country like US, sometimes compromise their core principal and had to shake the devils hand.
My request here is, please think of ideas and strategically implement, discuss privately with known friends and organization. Beware of sharing here and even emailing. Hi-tech can be encounter with old fashion low tech
Dear JN,
Brilliant effort, I could not come for the meeting but I share your ideas.
I strongly believe, we need to work on the grassroot. We need people’s participation. What we do we have in our control. This should be a goal to be achieved at each and every Tibetan organisation scattered around the world.
Working world leaders, UN is fine. But we should not be kidding, they will only respond based on their self interest. Nobody is willing to risk anything for us. We had enough experience with that.
We must value each and every Tibetans as potential freedom fighter. Even a uninspired Tibetan is more valueable than any Ingi because in his veins run Tibetan blood.
Lets leave the “Lhas” alone, they had enough time to prove themselves. Lets focus on our attention to people power. We must believe in our people. Yes, our people are reluctant. But there is a good historical reason. We will discuss that at another time.
People power.
Dokpa
I couldnt make it either this time. but i will come for upcoming occurences Jamyangla. Dokpa-la: Injis are very valuable, please dont undermine their help. Some of them help thousand times more than some brainswashed collaborating tibetans, or even more than some that don t care at all. which shocks and angers me sometimes.
Could someone witty and Tibetan or non-Tibetan but still kind of witty and caring please contact me via my here deposited e-mail adress? Cheers!
Dear Phunta Dorjee lak,
I understand your concern and point of view. I also agree with you.
After all, Tibetan blood runs in veins of all Tibetans. Some have made poor choices and has gone astray. Just like in some families. I believe they will eventually come around.
We have to create the situations, apply the necessary pressure to turn them around. We can achieve it my being active in local Tibetan communities and speaking out for “Solidarity”.
There are 30 local communities in North America and more in Europe and other areas. Solidarity must be the theme of each an every community. Those who feel for Tibet must work towards making their community a success.
Be vocal, Be strong and Be visible in upholding the goals of your local community. Don’t let local community go into lethargy. Don’t let local community be hijacked by individuals and groups with narrow ambitions and sometimes with ulterior motives.
Support Local Tibetan Community, support to achieve its goals. BE VIGILANT AT ALL TIMES.
Be vocal, Be strong, Be visible and Never be Silent.
BHO GYALO
Dokpa
Just heard fascinating NPR interview with George Lois, leader in the “Creative Revolution” in advertising during the 1950s.
http://www.npr.org/2012/03/19/148764719/damn-good-advice-from-one-of-the-real-mad-men
Lois believes that creativity, the “defeat of habit by originality,” can overcome almost any problem.
“I really believe that. What I try to teach young people, or anybody in any creative field, is that every idea should seemingly be outrageous.” ~George Lois
Dokpa la,
Thank you for saying you agrees with me like some Injies who say “you did terrific job” with big smile, and in deep down the heart he/she really meant 180 degree. Anyway I’m bit accustomed to these fake demeanors.
I truly think, RANGZEN groups are still thinking like a pond frog with following reasons:
1 – Ideology that if they can change the minds of more and more Tibetans to RANGZEN from MWA (Middle-Way Approach), then one day they will attainted the goal “RANGZEN”.
Few years ago HH Dalai Lama during his visit to US states CA, NY, DC and MN for many times said “For last 30 some years RANGZEN groups has been strongly holding the RANGZEN principle, but now they have to rethink on their Principle or they should go out to the nations to find support and find at least two nations who fully supports their principle, and then I with all Tibetans will follow”.
I think, this is absolutely inconvenience truth to stay sustain for next 100 years if worse come to worse. If I give you one small example: current CTA budget of about Rupees 1015 millions was presented at the TPiE session. Money does not grow on trees or falls from the sky.
2 – Finger Pointing / watchdog beyond the reasonable to CTA.
My rear mirror anthology of past 45 years by RANGZEN groups, principally Jamyang Norbu la finger pointing to CTA is sometime stronger then China, I’m not making mountain out of ant hill. The reality is on the record and no one can get rid off or one does not have to prove it, it is universal to any observant Tibetan.
Recent TYC demanding CTA to change Tibet policy without any proper research and strategy, last two years articles after article written by RANGZEN group/leaders pointing unnecessary faults in former Kalon Tripa Rinpoche and few times to HH Dalia Lama by some Injies who call themselves leaders of RANGZEN group.
This month, one Injie cracked such an obnoxious joke on current Kalon Tripa Dr Lobsang Sangay la “His parents should have sold him and sent the cow to school !” and so call many Tibetan Rangzen follower laugh their ass off . When I read/heard the Joke, my heart almost stopped beating and tear filled my eyes.
3 – Present fool strategy of grass root campaigns within Tibetan communities.
As you have clearly mentioned grass root level campaigns to infiltrate into Tibetan communities / associations in North America and Europe, and becoming board members of these communities. Recent Rangzen meeting in NY City was attended by some board members from Tibetan associations from North America.
I think, this fool strategy is like building a speed breaker on national highways so many traffics gets into unnecessary / deliberate accidents and pull down the speed of moving traffics, so people will reach home and offices very late.
I think JN and Rangzen proponents can establish a “Rangzen Party” with a chairman and fight for seats in Tibetan Parliament and even Katri 2016. This is a way around the charter. This can give birth to a de facto opposition party, the cherished dream of JN,and bring check and balance in exile polity. This can keep the political scene bustling with activism,debate, and patriotism, and constant improvement.
Old Monk,
My respect. I will vote for your suggestion. JN should come out with a clear plan of action, give his party a name and go on campaign. UTube campaign will be a cost effective method. The current kalon tripa used the media with success. KTripa never came to our area, but I know exactly what he stood for, I observed all his speeches in all parts of the world. For that matter JN has made some utube videos on Tibetan History which are very good. I have great respect for him.
Puron Dorjee lak, don’t you think you are a little paranoid ? Is’t it Chinese like reaction ?
I need to make few clarifications:
1. When I emphasized the importance of Tibetan mass movement, I did not belittle their contributions of “Ingis”. Infact, the more effective we become, the more support we will receive. Its also a fact of global politics for rich nations to invest in other nations who need help, US invest a lot in many nations including rough nations. China invest a lot in Nepal, Pakistan, Iran etc.
2. You brought in a code from HH. The Dalai Lama. I hope you did not bring it in as limiting factor. Anyway, he also said, ” Finally, 6 million Tibetans will decide the future fate of Tibet”. From my experience as Tibetan, our struggle has been very “External oriented”. Either we pray a lot or plead other nations. My question is “What about us, the Tibetans ?”
The Lioness goes to hunt for the cubs, I am saying please take us on the hunt. Please don’t shelter us, we are not cubs anymore. We want to come on the hunt with you.
2. Rangzen round table, it will remain an enigma if its not followed up with action. ANY ACTION WILL DO. IN ORDER TO CREATE ANY RIPPLE, THE SURFACE OF THE WATER MUST BE DISTURBED. At this stage of Tibetan history. ANY ACTION IS BETTER THAN NO ACTION. I mean action based on strategy. Don’t call it a speed bump yet.
3. Whats your call ??
Dokpa
#38
Indeed. But it can also become the ruling party, by winning the 75% of the seats. There is no need of multiparty system as such, for the house has power to amend the constitution. It is done, if the majority of the members favour Rangzen.
Most probably, the transformation of CTA’s policy perhaps is not what Rangzen Alliance is for. It has a clear cut goal, and that goal is Rangzen.
Indeed, it must not care whether or not the CTA or any other organisation shares the same goal. Rangzen is the goal, and it must be achieved. It must be achieved by any means. Possibility of resorting to violence (wherever and whenever the situation demands so) must not be ruled out. Tibetans are not born global peace and nonviolence contractors. It is not in the nature of their remote ancestors.
It is not that the “nonviolence” is weak and passive. The Nonviolence is extremely powerful and active, but sometimes the two must apply alternatively, so as to bring better and faster result.
Take heart in the fact that individual efforts also have an effect. We musn’t just wait around for big plans–when they come, great, but in the meantime keep the pressure on, keep new and energetic ideas flowing, more than ever. Positive efforts, but also also gnawing away at the foundations of the sham of a Chinese “government.”
Remember Shapale…such a singular, humorous idea, but it swept all of Tibet like fire and even Chinese kids were found singing Shapale. Revolution comes in a thousand shapes. The only shape it doesn’t come in is inaction.
It may feel hopeless but look at the news in the past days…little by little the spotlight is inching toward Tibet, and at the same time rumblings are starting to be heard from India, Taiwan and others that China is really starting (starting?!) to cross lines.
But never forget the individual actions, and this means individual accountability, too. Chinese officials and military are very bold when they are anonymous, but expose someone’s real name for discussion, and they wilt like a flower. There is no reason any Chinese person who harms a Tibetan, either in Tibet or abroad, should remain anonymous.
The article below paints a rather accurate picture of our current Kalon Tripa. It is pretty damning, basically calling Mr. Lobsang Sangay-la an insincere politician who is willing to exploit Tibetan society’s internal divisions to win an election.
The people get what they vote for. They wanted “change” and they got it, just not the change they were hoping for.
AP: “Tibet exiles see rise of American-style politician”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jgPFHKgUa0-TLk6JXqLdTWA1ln0Q?docId=8e778b397ac8474892c406b4f4fd2233
I agree that we really need to work on identifying individual Chinese soldiers, secret police, and what not and charge them with specific crimes; put them on youtube or facebook and shame them. I have a feeling their ‘losing face’ factor might play very well.
(1)build powerful detailed and truthful, verifiable database on chinese crime from 1949-now in three languages(Tibetan-Chinese-English) .
This should be one the most important STRATEGY of our times. But i know these rengzen crowds will be interested in only their narrow minded ideological agenda.
why can’t we build this? this is the question every Tibetan should ask when they see all these big talkers, specially to these rengzen crowds.
A good strategy that will work.It really does not matter what one wants to fight for so long as the energy is directed towards a good one.
Rangzenwala or uma wala or shangtsongwala….who the fck cares so long as everyone works towards to same end result.
@42 Kucho lo-trep, we really have no time to indulge in petty politics.
In a number of protest photos from Tibet (Runggye Adak’s arrest, for example) the faces of Chinese police are shown very clearly. Ironically, China’s massive face-recognition database and software, which it uses to identify protestors, could swiftly ID these Chinese police, too.
But don’t forget human flesh search…chances are if we took, say, that chubby police man from Runggye Adak’s arrest and released it to Chinese netizens, we could have a chance of getting his name. Netizens are young and energetic and undisciplined and love good challenge…despite the fact it’s a Tibetan issue, I bet someone would offer up the name if they know it. With Real Name starting to go into effect now, though, lot of this type of thing will be in danger. We should really scramble to get as much info out as possible in the next few months.
I suggests JN La start this project from this website. this website should be converted into searchable database bank. he can start a funding raising now!
wow, lot of suggestions for the rangzen people. lot of work to do. i wonder what will be left for LS and his administration people to do. its like we have no expectations from them at all.that says a lot!
Well…the cell philosophy is powerful, too. Central organized government projects are great, but individual “cells” of effort are flexible and harder to destroy.
The good thing about individual projects is that they can always become centralized later, but at least a lot of groundwork is already done. For example if several people start collecting and posting pictures of Chinese military criminals, the government can always use the info later; a lot of the work is done ahead of time. So it’s not counterproductive imho.
Also, individuals are have more freedom; we have no one to answer to, no public office, no compromising to worry about. We don’t have to hold any conferences with multiple parties. If we want to post pictures of Chinese criminals, we just post them, period. We don’t have to negotiate with anybody. The more centralized a project gets, the more political it gets, and the more decisions are taken out of our own hands.
Quick note: did anyone notice the face-coverings worn by some of the military/police in some of the protest pictures? For example, in the “new protest photos from 2008” series, it’s obvious the officials know their picture is being taken–they are holding a Tibetan deliberately in front of the camera (maybe the photographer is Chinese?) and each of them is wearing a black knit face covering.
In the recent pictures from Serthar (I think?) I notice some police are wearing those same masks, and some Chinese man is standing and filming as the horde of 30 police descend on that one Tibetan and beat him up.
So it seems as if the Chinese government crooks, like the Nazis, are documenting some of their own crimes; I wonder if, whenever the black masks are on, it’s safe to assume a Chinese official is filming. That would mean that somewhere there are probably very clear, extensive photos and footage of many of these attacks against Tibetans–much like the Nazi archives. Just something to keep an eye out for. It could serve as evidence later, if (against the odds) we can track the footage down.
WANGCHUK.
Until now, JN and other gave suggestions to us. Now is our term is to give suggestions to them. Don’t you think so? As we are on same boat, we should share some of blames.
I really want to see this things started and specially from rengzen big months.
I know they won’t do it because it does not concern with their ideological framework.
Be real, do you think Tibet fund and SFT and other rengzen orgs are going to start this project? Of course, not, never will.
actually,in times like this its the activists and freedom fighters who will do something. politicians are just for show up.
Ugen – what’s your suggestion for the small mouth “middle-wayers”, sit on their arse and pray? LOL!
Is there a term preferable to གསར་བརྗེ་ ? Like, does that one have too many Communist overtones, or is it generally accepted for any use? ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ་ !
Remember the Joseph Kony youtube video that was made very popular, before the main guy decided to run naked and masturbate in public; that video might be the blueprint for what we are talking about here. Put that video on youtube and ask people to identify him for the sake of justice and humanity. I am sure there are many conscientiousness people out there or they may have enemies who wouldn’t mind exposing them on the net; then we gather the name and the picture for future references or take it to international court and try to persecute them, not necessarily in the hope of apprehending them but to start a process that might bring doubts and hesitance and probably even embarrassment due to what it might mean to their children and their scions.
While we are on the topic, do we have any video on the Nangpa la shooting? That was another incident that has international recognition and easily identifiable as to the proper context in history. Any videos of police brutality with the self-immolators would be especially important; similar to the beatings that were recorded in 2008, I believe.
SHEILA La,
It has the communist overtone and should not be used. In Tibetan language, it is not neutral term. For the most tibetans, it symbolizes destructions, death and the dark side of history, not same as revolution.
TSERING DORJEE La,
in order to successfully identify these people, first we need to do some ground works. For example, we need to identity which military district these people belong to, in which units and where they based on and how long . etc. It also goes to polices and all other government’s units. So , first we need to build a portal and database for this. Then I am sure people will provide these information to us. We even post their individual information on chinese online. The CCP is in deep shiiit now because of the power of internet.
I can not imagine if we have the detail information of the local police chief in each counties and the head of each units of PLA , we can call them and google map their house and send their pictures all over internet for jokes and whatever we wants. Believe me, this is much more powerful than anything we have ever seen.
Moreover, I am sure Tibetans are so happy to provide these information to us. It won’t cost much to us. Someone or org needs to take initiatives. Some of you were so crazily about t LS’s english and now it is your term to show up your english skill, at least, start to write a proposal. come on, don’t kidding ourself here and just do something.
ཨོ་རྒྱན་ལགས་ཐུགས་རྗེ་ཆེ་།
In the nick of time, too, lol. So “Tsampa Revolution” has to find a different word than sarje, maybe. I was worried because the only things that གསར་བརྗེ་ turned up were Communist docs and/Melvyn Goldstein (well, one and the same).
Does anyone know of a better word for revolution?
The branch of justice we can work on in Tibet will be a long and arduous path. But anything is possible. In the free world, however, we can probably make much swifter progress–identifying PRC citizens who are spying on Tibetans. This act is completely illegal, as proven by the Syrian case.
The photos of Tibetan protests are often extremely high resolution, and many are very recent. This means that we have a much better chance of identifying the PRC citizens who are breaking the laws of the free world.
Tibet3 on Flickr has posted some very clear pictures from Calgary, Canada, of a man who is clearly doing just this.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14182106@N03/with/1444272308/
* I meant to say the photos of Tibetan protests in the free world are often very high resolution
I like this term ལམ་གསར། and it means the new path, is deeply rooted in Buddhist terminology and can be explained in the revolutionary term as well.
Wow, beautiful word. It’s satisfying to get rid of the “language of oppression” whenever possible. Really appreciate your thoughts on this.
WHOA – something’s up in Beijing – tanks reported:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/21/inside-the-ring-436080940/
@Daveno #46,
It’s funny that you accuse me of “petty politics”. You are one of LS’s most hyper partisan supporters. That’s fine, that’s your right to free speech. But last I checked, this is a democracy and we have the right to critique our elected leaders.
I’m sorry you don’t like to see “Khewang-la” criticised since he is so fragile. But that is decratic accountability, not “petty politics.
I see that you not deny the substance of my message, which is that the article shows “Khewang-la” to be an insincere politician, willing to exploit Tibetan society’s internal divisions to win an election.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jgPFHKgUa0-TLk6JXqLdTWA1ln0Q?docId=8e778b397ac8474892c406b4f4fd2233
@64, something is on the way…
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/zhou-yongkang-lost-power-struggle-say-chinese-netizens-209107.html
Will there be a legal avenue to sue the parties involved in this Ad.
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/canada/ad-touting-freedom-in-tibet-outrages-rights-advocates-209039.html
we should try to put ads in chinese news media in America and canada or elsewhere. why not? some our orgs seems to have lots of money put ads on time square billboard. the most of our so called leaders are so unimaginative and stubborns.
Hello Ugen and others,
check this out;
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/world/asia/in-self-immolations-signs-of-new-turmoil-in-tibet.html?hpw
Hello Ugen, what do you say to the follwoing comment posted on New York Time’s article gave link above:
donriverTorontoReport Inappropriate Comment.
..While I sympathize with Tibetans’ desire for the preservation of their own culture, I think self-immolation as an act of protest against learning chemistry using a Chinese text book is ridiculously extreme. I grew up in Hong Kong, under British colonial rule. Most of us study chemistry, physics, math, or what-have-you, using English texts. Nobody protested, nobody self-immolated. We were grateful that we learned the sciences using the international language of science. Are there good Tibetan chemistry and physics text books? I very much doubt it! If Tibetans want to advance their lot, they need to get beyond ethnic resentment. We ethnic Chinese living under British colonial rule did harbour a little resentment, but that never derailed us from building a world-class financial centre by leveraging the benefit of colonialism as a bridge to the developed world. I think Tibetans should do the same.
oh, i would say that o.k so NOW its time to leave. you(china) came with the propaganda that you’re coming to build roads and hospitals and that chinese wouldnt take away even a single needle. well, they’ve taken a lot lot more and destroyed a lot of things but now its time to leave. we have nothing against learing science and math along with our scriputires because there is not any contradiciton. so the monks are saying NOW is time to leave. enough is enough! dont blame on math and science. you have overstayed our hospitality. china dosesnt leave any other option for tibetans but to take this drastic step.
The British colonials taught HongKong EVERYTHING they are today. They also stuck to their word and left.
After the devastation of WWII; the US helped rebuild Japan – taught them almost everything (modern) that they are today and LEFT.
We all know that anything modern that is being done in Tibet is mainly to serve their Goal. The Chinese want to stay PUT in Tibet.
@ Tashi2, # 70
The question is, what did you (Tashi2)has to say to that comment. Did you respond to that comment, as a Bhoerig? If you are one.
I am bit skeptical about your motive.
Dear Tibetans,
Don’t get distracted by foreign posting, the have intentions of diluting our struggle.
Logic of “development” is an irrelevant question. Tibet’s culture never cared about “development” as defined by the English dictionary.
Tibet’s culture is a great culture, just because people these days are not able to benefit from it is not the fault of the culture but mere weakness of people in these time.
Dokpa
Chinese are the cheapest people in the world, copying anything and everything; even white people’s names. When you go to europe and north americas, most of these Chinese have English names even though they are not christians. They have no problem giving up their identity and to listen to them lecture us like listening to a blind person critizing someone with sight on the way they walk.
All Tibetans must join Ranzen Alliance. And show the enemy the door to exit Tibet. Still not gone, then it is the time to kick their butts. It is where the violence is the only opption. No compassion. Just kick them out.
Protest should not be in the form of group more than 20,nor should it last a day or months.
The protest should be continuous in the face of the world and the oppressor and those ignorant(Chinese inside Tibet). The method of protest should be peace for the world,semi non violence for the oppressor and ignorant lot.
Depending solely on the united nation is pretty stupid, its an organization formed for those in power to be used by those in power in the direction of their own interest.
ཀློག་འདོད་ཀྱི་འདུན་པ་ཤུགས་ཆེར་ཡོད་ཀྱང་བོད་ཡིག་ཚིག་རྐང་གཅིག་མེད་དུས་དབྱིན་ཡིག་ཐོག་ནས་ནང་དོན་ཇི་བཞིན་གོ་ཐབས་བྲལ་སོང་བས་རྗེས་སུ་བོད་ཡིག་ཐོག་ལྟ་ཀློག་ཐུབས་ཐབས་བཟོ་གནང་ཡོང་བར་མཁྱེན།
ཚེ་རིང་ལགས།
འཇམ་དབྱངས་ནོར་བུ་སོགས་ཀྱིས་དུས་རྒྱུན་མང་པོ་ཞིག་ལབ་བསྡད་ཡོད་མོད།ཁ་ནས་རང་གི་ཁོག་གི་ཞེན་ཁོག་དང་ལ་རྒྱ་ཙམ་ཞིག་་སེམས་སུ་་འཆང་ནས་འདུག་པ་ལས་གཞན་ལས་ཀ་ཅི་ཡང་བྱེད་ཀིན་མ་རེད།ངས་ཁོ་ཚོ་ལ་རྒྱ་ནག་གིས་༡༩༤༩ལོ་ནས་ད་ལྟ་བར་ཏུ་བཟོས་བའི་ནག་ཉེས་སྟོན་པའི་དྲ་རྒྱ་བོད་རྒྱ་དབྱིན་གསུམ་གྱི་ཐོག་ནས་བཟོས་ན།ཡག་པོ་ཡོད་པའི་་རེ་བ་འདོན་བཞིན་ཡོད་མོད།ཁོ་ཚོས་ད་དུང་མ་གོ་ཁུལ་དང་མ་ཤེས་ཁུལ་བྱེད་ནས་སྡོད་བཞིན་པ་རེད།
@Ugen,
you are one of those pin-head in our community. Do you know that? It is embarrassing
Who the hell are you telling other people to do this and do that? If you think your Idea is sooooo great then why don’t you do it yourself? Why your finger always point to the other?
JN la is in his sixties and he has devoted his whole life for our struggle. Do you know that? You may not agree with lot of things he says, so as well me and many other which is the beauty of democracy that he champion from his heart, but at least have some decency and respect.
As a Tibetan, it is embarrassing when you open your mouth. So shut up
Hi every one, I just want to share with you all my genuine thoughts and experiences about our various NGOs. I wanna begin my writing by saying that we as Tibetans have been doing wonderful in highlighting the issues of Tibet to the entire world and have garnered significant amount of supporters all over the world. I don’t wanna write about the achievements in past 53 years, but more importantly I do wanna mention about this very sad and serious issue that is within our own control. We all know that chinese govt is trying to destroy our rich culture, language, tradition and religion inside Tibet. But I don’t know who is really forcing these tibetans not to speak in Tibetan with their fellow Tibetan brothers and sisters. Your answer may be they don’t know Tibetan language. If so, what made them not learn our own language ? You might say they live in foreign country and our language is not much used. If so who should we blame for this excuse. I would say parents and elders living in the same community for not guiding the younger generation with a far sighted strategies. As we all know that family is the first school and parents are the first teachers to their child/ children. So I really think that we should initiate some programs to illuminate the parents about the importance of keeping our language and culture alive for our nation. Then only I think we can expect our younger generation speak in our mother tongue when conversing with fellow brothers and sisters. In brief, I want to add this by saying that Our NGOs should also think about the silent internal destruction that has been taking place ever since tibetans started migrating to different parts of the world. This my biggest concern living in the west. I know we can check this problem if we all act together before it is too late. Thanks for reading my thoughts and advice me with your brilliant ideas. Finally, I very much appreciate you all out there working so hard for the common goal that is to free Tibet now.
GANG-TUK,
I see , only JN and others can tell others what to do? why is that? Last several years, what I see from JN and the most of these rengzenpas is nothing but finger always point to others. Am I wrong? Don’t embarrass yourself to me, like JN, I just just express my views, that’s all.
This seems to be our way of life to blame each others. JN blames Dasa for political failures and unimaginative. some of us are blaming JN and rengzen pepople for his petty politics and unimaginative. some of you should blame us for to be pin-head and embarrassment. is this fair?
Perfect example of ‘whining and complaining’ himself. LOL! I’m so glad I gave up on this retard.
It’s good if the resolutions arrived at can be disclosed.
@ Ugen
I have just one question. hypothetical one.
If there is chance for total independent (Rangzen). Again, I am saying “IF” we have chance.
Would you not prefer that???
Please answer it in simple.
YES I prefer or NO I don’t prefer.
Yes, I prefer to have rengzen. but what is your point? how to get there? what are your solutions beside complaining and criticizing Dasa. i have not seen anything from your guys, and the most of you don’t have rudimentary knowledge about Tibet, may have never talked to someone from Tibet let along to listen to them.
let’s forget about all these petty politics and let’s do something, first step might be to create a powerful china’s crime database.
JY la, what should we do now?
Ugen la
I’m not Jamyang la,but kindly allow me to offer you a suggestion on what you could do.
I would first get a good nights sleep,rest is very important.
I would then get my chequebook and write a decent check to a Tibet support group.
@ Ugen,
What is my point here?
My point here is to pin point exactly where you are wrong.
See, you prefer Ranzen but you seem to hate people who stand for ranzen. Don’t you think you are bit contradicting yourself?
That’s why you are a pin head. You get that?
Maybe you should ask the prime minister of Tibet
how he could so shamelessly pretend that the UN
promise to sent a special group to Tibet is anything
of his own accomplishment, especially when he
avoided visiting the hunger strikers who were just few
blocks away from him? UN representative were pushed
to the promise due to the sacrifices of these brave
individuals, and due to some slick politician.
It was supposed to be “NOT” due to some slick
politician.
GANG-TU,
you guys could not move beyond your little ideological framework. From beginning, my position is clear. our goal is to get freedom from the ccp, like we all want a cat, as Deng famously said “it doesn’t matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice” but you guys are insisting on getting black cat before anything else.
Don’t you get it?
One may believe or even say that the Westerners went to foreign countries ruled them for a while and then left, leaving behind all the developments they had brought in as free gifts to the natives they ruled; and this deal must be looked upon as a fair one, compared to what the Chinese are doing in Tibet and Xinjiang.
This issue is not as simple as it sounds. Nor is it as simple as one would have people to believe. It is absolutely not. In some cases, they did leave, but in several cases they did not. In the latter cases, they have not, and they never will. Even if they did, it would be meaningless, because there are not many natives left for whom they could leave behind their development-gifts.
In the former case, they did leave, but not on their sweet will. They were kicked out by the natives, following prolonged protests. For example, Indian Independence did not come as a gift from the then Brits. Indians fought for it, and it left no choice for the Brits but to leave; so is Hong Kong and others.
So, it is not likely that the Chinese will voluntarily withdraw from Tibet, and leave Tibetans in peace on their own. Also, it is not logical to dream so. The Chinese will leave, only when Tibetans begin to kick them out one by one. Chinese will leave, only when they see no choice but to leave. Tibetans must become ferocious (like Herukas) and deadly in their action. Only then the Chinese will begin to look for the direction where “Exit” is located.
The utopia of Tibet as a non-violence paradise on the roof of the world under the Chinese umbrella is just an utopia never to become realistic. If Tibetans want to win, they must revive their ancient might in the modern from. When Tibet could become regional superpower in the ancient time, then why it cannot today. Tibetans must wake up, and must wake up their true might that is layingdeep in the subconscious level. Dzogchen may help Tibetans to wake up. It may help them wake up not their “bodhi-seed”, but the true warrior’s spirit, which they have inherited from their ancestors.
… Tibetans need people like Dhob-dhob Yeshi Sangpo (20th cent.) Gargya Dam-ngag (20th cent.), and Adrug Gonpo Tashi (20th cent.) to lead them and teach them how to raise high up their faces and shoulders when they are face to face with their enemies and defeat them. Those were the people, who had seen the realisation as to who they were and what they had inherited from their ancestors.
“The enemy must be defeated”. That is the religion of their ancestors. Their ancestors were far more powerful than the powerful legend Alexander, the great, and Genghiz Khan (not to mention of Ching-hsi Wang-ti or the warriors of Ming and Tang). Tibetans must work hard to revive that innate might, which is their national heritage.
Rewalsar…If the above quotes make you feel better and help you through each day then by all means think about them. But this era of warfare is vastly different than the past. Alexander or Ghengis Khan would not have allowed the Chinese to step one foot in their lands, if only to slit their throats
Dear all,
I have been writing on this blog for sometime. Reading many blogs.
Each time a topic is over, we go to the next one. I see very well educated, good intentions and rich in patriotism.
But where are we going ?? what do we want to achieve ?? Does it lead to any mobilization ??
We must think how to use this avenue to achieve better results.
Intellectualization is handicap if not followed by action.
I think all of you are only big talker.
TAshi2, what are you yourself? a silent god?
Big Talkers,
Can you tell us one viable strategy for achiving rangzen at least?
Tashi 2,
we have to talk but with an open mind. Silence at the right time is golden.
Silence in times of tragedy is same as taking part in crime. China use of veto in UN on Syria is a method to silence the rest of the world. A tragic silence.
We can never be silent on Tibet. One of our strategy is to keep the issue alive until one day….
Dokpa
Mr.Tashi, maybe you need to ask Jamphel Yeshi
if he was just big talker. We all know who the real
talkers are; the ones who talked away not only
country but even our dignity.
@ Tashi 2
When you question us about our viable strategy to achieve our goal (Ranzen) it is rather disheartening if you are one of us (bhoe-rig), because It tells me that you have never involved or took part in any free Tibet movement.
There are many NGO and individual initiatives, we bring a war. A different kind of war, with no bullets and grenades.
We have many different types Regiments; Writer, Poets, Musician, Artist, Monks and Nuns, Rinpoches, students and parents. All of us has been strategically moving forward toward our goal for over 50yrs and we can do it for thousands yrs again and again, now people are burning themselves. And You are questioning us?
My question to you is, Are you Bhoerig or not?
@ Ugen la,
your doggerel does not really comprehend in regards what you are trying to say. Anyway, as a Tibetan we don’t catch mice, we don’t need to. Only Deng and his follower do, because they eat mice, that’s why phrase like this is profound and powerful for them(communist Chinese).
Don’t get carried away naively. Think differently, if you are Tibetan
#95
…Not their “warfare”, but their might and spirit.
GANG-TUK ,
think naively? are you kidding? the most rengzenwas have never even spoken to a single chinese before(real enemy) let along understanding them. In order to defeat enemy, you have to understand your enemy first. it is number one in the game of warfare. our goal is to defeat chinese and kick out them from Tibet.
but what’s your solutions? where are they? beside complaining and criticising Dasa. I have not seen anything, really nothing, from you guys. have you guys ever talked someone from Tibet recently? i have my doubts, even a simple intell such as the name of protest were gathered by some monks, not big talkers people like JN and any rengzen orgs. why?
We need physical,financial,emotive,talker and intelligent resources.These combined resources will lead to a better result , not by one of them.
However, if you are mother fker chinese pretending to be Bhoerig…fck you! PHaRO!!
Friends, Pawo Jamphel Yeshi breathed his last today after battling for life in hospital for almost two days. Lobsang Sangay’s sickening leadership has come to the fore again: he didn’t pay even courtesy visit to Jamphel la, the brave freedom fighter whose ultimate act of bravery not only captured worlds attention but helped ‘raise’ Lobsang Sangay’s profile as well because of the association in the struggle. Let’s talk about this with JN permission here. Talking about anything else is a waste of time with this self proclaimed China experts, he will only bring you down to his level of stupidity and beat you.
dear moon-walkers,
did you ever have a rangzen?
if not, will china ever agree to have 56 patches of tiny independent states on their soil?
I hope, you have strategies this time.
tashi2, do you need a shaphale to come out of your stupor?
Tashi2 talks like some chinese “u guys have achieve nothing”
and “..will china agree to give independence (sarcastic tone)”.
she she!
TASHI2,
What a defeatist attitude. I don’t know for sure if we will ever get Rangzen. But I am absolutely sure if every body thinks like you do, we will Never get Rangzen.
I don’t see a reason why our kalon tripa or speaker of the house or any of our that many great lamas and tulkus could pay a visit to the ultimate sacrifice of our brother and Pawo Jamphel yeshi. The great lamas and tulkus of Tibet can also play a major role in our freedom struggle if they really want to. It is very sickening to see and hear things so divided amongst Tibetans especially when it comes to our freedom and nation. Please help us do better than this for sake our future generations of tibet.
(1)stop to blame each others, this must start from JN la and his rengzen crowds.
(2) let’s build something together.
(3) gathering intells on our enemy.
(4)develop strategies.
(5)let’s defeat the enemy first, then discuss the status of nation.
can we?
If I may:
It takes MANY a lifetime to become the Buddha that is in you. This goal seems so unattainable; so unrealistic…. But that has never been a deterrent. The journey itself keeps you going.
Correction to my writing. I mean to say “why not”our kalon tripa and so on …… Sorry about my typo. Thanks.
Over about 550 comments so far, have anything to say?
http://news.yahoo.com/tibetan-dies-self-immolation-india-hu-visit-095311215.html
message from my Phala who knew free Tibet:
One more self immolation – 30 in tibet and 3 in India against the illegal occupation of Tibet and the Chinese brutal suppression of our culture and language. Today we are fighting against the Chinese occupation. And the weakness is on our side, by number, no economic power and intellectualy we doesn’t count in this world of money and power. We should make plans to our coming generations another method to fight with china. Education, unity, keep alive our language and keep on telling the Chinese “the mutual respect” under one constitution or else…
i disagree with last sentence, because i m less tired than him, but the rest is so true. they have to get out. they have to get OUT.
To webmaster, who is this Tashi2? Is he a same guy who used to call Chinese engineer?
… Their ancient ancestors were known by two ferocious names “Sinpo” and “Dongmar”. The military power that they built was called “Bod kyi magpung”. When it swept past, across the nations that surrounded Tibet, it was nothing less than a wave of devastating tsunami. Their rule extended over two third of the geographical entity that included Central, East and South Asia.
It may not be misleading to imagine that far off from Tibet in some lone villages, when kids cry, mothers would say, “huuuushhhh , lest Sinpo Dongmars will come”.
Those three names (Sinpo, Dongmar, & Bod kyi magpung), which have orally come down to certain period of time and then entered into written records, are utterly significant ones. For centuries, the heroic stories of Sinpo, Dongmar, and Bod kyi magpung were told and retold, in prose as well as in poetries. But now, it is the time to revive the spirit and the might of Sinpo and Dongmar, and to form a modern Bod kyi magpung, so that it could once again swept past, and clean up the invaders.
Here is very interesting article to read …
http://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/articles/arethevoicesoftibet%E2%80%99sself-immolatorsderailedinexile
Voicing your opinion here is good but it will also be good if you could voice your opinion on the internet at the same time. CNN came up with at least two opinion pieces and there are many articles out there in India and other countries. Of course, the 50 cents army is in full force and we could use our own little voluntary army to join forces and post their opinion on the articles too. If nothing else, a simple ‘Free Tibet’ will suffice. Stick to the point and don’t get them to sidetrack you. That is their own purpose on the board. They will always try to bring up similar incidents like the Native Americans and what not, quite irrelevant to the present topic, but it diffuses the focus of the conversation into meaningless arguments. Thank you and may the force be with you.
purondorjee,
whether rangzen or middle way, the sacrifices sent us a strong message that something needs to be done and not continue with this business as usual attitude. that much is very clear. and i think the rangzen activists and the people who are passionate about the issue want to do something . now is time to build momentum for some kind of action.so many lives sacrificed. ITS NOT THE TIME TO PLAY IT DOWN. The whole world may play it down but the doesnt mean that its not real.
whether rangzen supporters or middle way adherent, all love our HHDL. dont make it more difficult for HHDL by making up such notions.
Anyone living near around Newark Museum may find this forthcoming lecture interesting:
http://www.newarkmuseum.org/tibetlecture.html
It is pretty interesting idea to target Chinese constructions( Railroads, Mineral factory sites,official buildings , military camps etc)Purposely and very systematically ,,,,,,
For that, there two very important things that we have to be pre-planed think before things implemented in action:
1) We have to be ready, how we do justify our action to the world.
2) How, we do supply proper weapon to those who are committed to do.
Only then, our violent struggle will be last till our freedom be restored ,,,,
Anyone interested in the name “Dongmar” may find these sites interesting (although later historians belittled them by calling “barbarians”):
http://earlytibet.com/2007/09/18/red-faced-men/
http://earlytibet.com/2007/09/26/red-faced-men-ii/
http://earlytibet.com/2007/10/05/red-faced-men-iii/
@124
Home made explosives. receipts are on internet..
disrupting/destroying the train tracks and provoking also by explosions landslides on roads between china and Tibet
Dorji are serious?
“Many people mistake non-violence as compromise or avoidance of conflict. It is not. On the other hand, it is standing up for what is right (truth) and justice. Fighting a violent war is better than accepting injustice. So, really there is no contradiction in fighting a just war, and believing in non-violence. Both are duties to be carried out to preserve justice and truth.”–Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
I’m in mood for a quote too. ‘sometime you need to engage the evil to do good to the society’ – Sangay 😉
The war must be fought for truth and justice, with due respect to public properties and innocent lives.
It appears little likely that the modern Bod kyi magpung of the sort would ever come into being. However, if or when it did, it would have to be an appropriate defence organisation, build on the moral law that respects humanism and protects humanity. It must not be an armed militant organisation that has no respect to public properties and innocent lives.
Its war must be against the injustice. Its target must be the enemy who commits crime against Tibetan people and escapes from being brought to justice. Bod kyi magpung must bring them to justice, for it has the moral right to do so.
Some later historians had chosen to depict the ancient Bod kyi magpung as a band of “barbarians”. This is not true. The ancient Bod kyi magpusng was an appropriate national defence body built on the then universally accepted law, the law that governed the wars of those days.
@128
why would that not be serious??
i responded to @124
I dont see how we can smuggle weapons/explosives into Tibet. Buying them is easy. 100 grams of plastic explosives cost 50 euros in europe. Supplied from ex-east european networks. Kids get them here to blow ATMs for that price.
But i dont see how you transport them and smuggle them. Home made can work pretty well from what i know. I m talking about infrastructure sabotage. If locals want to blow the veins/supply/oxygen of colons in Tibet, before immolating (or not), i dont see what is wrong.
To all the tibetan activist:
How much have you sacrificed for your country?
How much can you sacrifice for your country??
How much will you sacrifice for your country???
I think tibetans every where should be asking these questions to oneself. No matter what China does, we as a nation can’t die if our spirit remains as it has ever been. ONLY tibetans COUNT!
I agree 100% with the 133 but our spirit must undergo a sea change.
Big mind change in Tibet happening
http://www.rfa.org/english/news/tibet/dege-04182012171217.html