JN at March 10 Rally in San Francisco (2009)

 

Comments

  1. Phuntsok Jordhen | March 24th, 2009 | 10:34 pm

    JN la, awesome speech. fired me right up.
    Wow this blog is getting all fancy. It’s like a Rangzen TV station too.

  2. Barkor Bomo | March 24th, 2009 | 11:44 pm

    Thank you for this most inspiring, hopeful, eloquent and yet heartbreaking speech. Another great 50th Anniversary gift! I am sure this will be an awakening call for many youngsters. Thank you for always being true to Tibet, to your beliefs and to truth itself. I add my prayers along with many others to yours that we will see His Holiness beaming from his olden throne in the Potala in our lifetime, and in the Barkor, we will embrace our brave brothers and sisters and toast them with a nice pitcher of chang! In the meanwhile may all the guardian deities of Tibet bless you and keep you well and safe!
    Bod Rangzen!

  3. newgenerationtb | March 25th, 2009 | 2:14 pm

    Very inspiring as always. I am very thankful for the fact that JN pointed out few very practical actions each one of us can do.

    Please do it, I will do it…..

    Print out the rangzen leaflets and carry with you all times.
    Spread to people who are interested or have questions about Tibet and Tibetan
    We have the urgent responsibility to stand in front of the world to say that Tibet is occupied. Tibeatns inside never bought with money thus far, and nor can be purchased in the future.

    The political momentum of freedom and momentum for a free and independent Tibet is building, so free Tibet is round the corner, we only need to be persistent, and vigorously confront and carry the rangzen flag.

    I also recommend people read blog post, http://www.highpeakspureearth.com. You will get constantly inspired, maybe your eyes will be misty every time you read it as it always happen to me.

    bog gya lo!

    NG

  4. Dawa | March 25th, 2009 | 2:27 pm

    Wow that was good, Jamyang la. I try to resist from using superlatives but it must be the advancement of middle age. But this is the most inspiring speech in the most natural flowing Tibetan I have ever heard.

  5. NP Karze | March 25th, 2009 | 2:52 pm

    Jamyang la I always enjoy your writngs and talks. Can you shed more like on the recent videos smuggled from Tibet on Chinese atrocities against Tibetans.

    I believe that this is just a tip of iceberg as Chinese have been mercelessly killing Tibetans since 1950 and even before specially in Kham and Amdo.

  6. Sandup | March 25th, 2009 | 10:06 pm

    Jamyang la, thank you for your Losar gift which I have printed to distribute at our March 28th Protest against the Chinese Surf Emancipation Day.Thank you also for continously writing on issues concerning past, present and future of our NATION. I have found your writing always on the spot and am sure it shakes the Chinese propaganda machine. I beleive to a large extent we have lost our country by the power of the Chinese propaganda. Since the last year uprising in Tibet the Chinese have never stopped launching new website, dispatching delegates far & wide, organising photo & film exhibition, endorsing new legislation like Surf Emancipation Day etc, to ensure that the world at large believe in what they say and we are just a bunch of disgruntled or displaced race. So, please keep writing, leading and enlightening us.

  7. Tashi Samdup | March 26th, 2009 | 1:32 am

    Jamyang la, you’re indeed the spark of rangzen’s tenpa Chidar.

  8. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | March 26th, 2009 | 4:01 am

    Yes…shining star of the Rangzen Tenpa Chidar (Rangzen Renaissance)
    What an apt description!

  9. Dawa | March 26th, 2009 | 12:11 pm

    In New York about 3000 of us marched across the Brooklyn Bridge and some more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUNuasm0pVM

    BTY I am the one in authentic gucci shoes and ysl bag. Teeheee.

  10. i_believe | March 26th, 2009 | 6:18 pm

    if tibetans practice 100% pure loving compassion toward chinese people for just 5 more decades(10 decades is nothing in the life of a nation),the chinese will willingly and lovingly give us genuine autonomy because by then their trust toward us knows no limits.

    after all, chinese jampelyang(boddhisatva of wisdom) and tibetan cheresi(boddhisatva of compassion) are blood brothers.
    and you know many tibetan lamas are reborn in bejing as influential chinese leaders. they will soon replace hu jintao and wen jiabo and give us autonomy for all the 3 tibetan traditional states.
    so we can happily wait.

    khampa spiritual warrior

  11. Billk | March 26th, 2009 | 7:52 pm

    I_believe writes better English than Umeylam but just has to be another Chinese netizen who feels the need to pose as a Chinese loving Tibetan.

    As a result of living within a totalitarian propaganda state since 1949, that peddles constant untruths about Tibet and Tibetans, very few Chinese have either love for or trust towards Tibetans. Why should more time living under the same system make them any more loving or trusting than they are right now?

    I certainly hope that the CCP regime will collapse in much less than 50 years. In the meantime Tibetans should continue to resist Chinese imperialism in whatever ways they see fit.

    In any case, what people in the world could practice “100% pure loving compassion” when they have had to endure the suffering that has been meted out to the Tibetan people and continues to be meted out every day?

  12. Billk | March 26th, 2009 | 7:57 pm

    Dawa wrote:

    “BTY I am the one in authentic gucci shoes and ysl bag. Teeheee.”

    Dawa-la, those look like cheap Chinese knock-offs to me.

  13. i_believe | March 26th, 2009 | 8:15 pm

    i am a lama in india but i wont tell you who i am. tha’t not important. also it’s the beauty of public internet behind which you hide—you could be a school kid or samdong lama..and no one knows! and there is no need to.
    its the “point” that we care about helping each other open the eyes wide shut!

    enemy is the greatest teacher.
    rangzen is impossible.

    dalai lama gave up independence in 1987
    and today his son samdong lama has said tibet is a part of china.
    tomorrow he will say tibet was also a part of china and it will forever remain a part of china.

    i hope you guys respect differing views.

    enjoying the anonimity!

  14. Phuntsok Jordhen | March 26th, 2009 | 10:21 pm

    hey I-BELIEVE, I-don’t-believe-you.

  15. Billk | March 26th, 2009 | 10:34 pm

    I will tell you who I am, because I am willing to take responsibility for what I say and write.

    My name is Bill King. I live in Australia. I have been actively involved in the Free Tibet movement since March 14 last year, when I decided taking a back seat on this issue was no longer tenable. I have been working hard to educate myself on the issues and I have also been learning Tibetan language for a few months. I also speak Thai and some Japanese so you might call me an Asia-phile.

    I respect differing views, if they are offered sincerely. I am happy to have dialogue with Chinese people any time, including CCP loyalists. However, I don’t respect fenqing who feel free to pour forth torrents of abuse on the internet, with no attempt at rational argument, and felt free* to punch and spit on Tibetans, Uigurs and Burmese and their supporters at last year’s torch relays. I also don’t respect Chinese people who pretend to be Tibetans for the sake of muddying the waters in public discussions about Tibet and its future. If, I’m right and you are one of these people, then, as we say in Australia, you should have a bloody good look in the mirror mate. : )

    With metta
    Bill

    *BTW: Given the evidence that the Chinese embassies in the countries visited by the torch relay were organizing these Red Guard nostalgia displays, perhaps “felt free” isn’t the right way of phrasing it. ; )

  16. Sangay | March 27th, 2009 | 6:56 am

    China has been in the land of Tibetans 60 years, I Believe it’s time they leave and go back to where they belong – China. If they don’t want to leave, I Believe they must be kicked out. Families host guest(s) for 2, 3 days or a week. If the guest(s)try to form root and doesn’t leave, they are thrown out. It’s a standard practice everywhere.

    In the last 60 years of illegally self-granted residency in Tibet, China plundered Tibet’s wealth, disrespected Tibetans culture, religion, rewrote Tibet’s history, and tried to sinicize Tibetans every step of the way. I Believe there’s no word to describe the magnitude of crime China has committed against Tibetan people.

    I read history of Tibet-China relationship, there’s no wrong Tibetans have done to China to deserve this unprovoke merciless attack. I Believe China’s attack against Tibetans is unjust, and despicable, heinous

  17. Sangay | March 27th, 2009 | 6:57 am

    oppps…thats was an incomplete draft

  18. Sangay | March 27th, 2009 | 8:07 am

    …I Believe China has destroyed everything for Tibetans to have trust in them. Tibetans are right when they demand Independence, not Autonomy. Samdhong Rinpoche is utter wrong to still have faith in China. He is absolutely misguided and delusional, I Believe.

    China claims over 95% of Tibetans were “serf” and His Holiness the Dalai lama was ‘slave master’, and they ‘liberated’ Tibet in 1959. Looking at what happened in Tibet since 1959 it clearly shows Tibetans have actually become serfs and Chinese their slave masters. I Believe the world is asking question now “If China says they ‘liberated’ Tibet and His Holiness was ‘slave master’, why Tibetans have protested violently against Chinese rule since they ‘liberated’ and demand Free Tibet?; if His Holiness the Dalai lama was ‘slave master’, why Tibetans from all the three provinces still worship him and ask him to return to rule Tibet??

    I Believe the World now believes that “liberation” was just concocted story by China to fool people, because no thief in right mind admits to stealing, he has to give it a fancy name.

    With increased security, ban on media, arbitrary imprisonment of Tibetans across the three provinces as ‘serf emancipation day’ approaches, it’s amply proved by Chinese that it was not the day ‘serfs’ were emancipated by Chinese, but the day they actually created.

    I Believe there’s no doubt the World now believes China invaded an independent country Tibet.

    I also Believe this “I Believe” is the same Umaylam. His earlier strategy didnt work, he’s now trying to wear different hat under different name.

    Oh, I can’t go on and on…I stop now. I_Believe, take mike away.

  19. cheme dorjee | March 27th, 2009 | 9:21 am

    About the serf thing. Again the chinese forget to mention that the majority of the Tibetans were nomads which have a typical tribal system similar to many nomads everywhere in the world.
    Another mistake they make is comparing the riots to riots that might take place in other cities. How would they react?? Well they are not occupied territories like lhasa. The only guarantee for no riots is that chinese people should remain in the great land of China and Tibetans in the great land of Tibet.Obviously this treaty made 1150 years were violated in 1949 by the chinese!!!If chinese adhere by this treaty we will be willing to adhere to later treaties. Otherwise riots are justified against an occupying force. Lets get real. Chinese are only there thanks to their military superiority. They love and covet Tibet. Its the pesky tibetans that live there that is a proble`!!!

  20. Dawa | March 27th, 2009 | 9:39 am

    Bill la, You took the bait. I don’t buy made in china and I don’t buy stuff from chinatowns or the streets of chinatowns. 😉

    To I-Believe — You must be one of those who believe Shoo Jintao is a manifestation of Jampelyang. Looks like even the gods become spoiled (as in rotting) when they get into Chinese skins.

  21. strange | March 27th, 2009 | 9:47 am

    the chinese(1959 to 1979) with all their resouces
    failed to conceive the idea of applying the final solution that i would have done if i were a mao or deng.
    that is to force chinese/tibetan marriage with every tibetan individual above 18 and provide them with all the govt help. today after 50 years of occupation by china, tibetan nationalism would be completely dead and tibetan a dead culture/race/nation.

    how stupid!

    now here on our side the dalai lama with all the so called ocean of wisdom literally believes that some chinese intelectuals and the chinese masses will willingly and lovingly give us autonomy if we practice 100% pure loving compassion toward the ultra nationalistic han chinese mass murderers/rapists.

    its like expecting freedom and mercy from the jaws of maneating lions.

    how misguided and delusional and politically naive!

    anyone have the answer? no? in which case what’s the question?

  22. Sangay | March 27th, 2009 | 10:33 am

    I_Believe, can I have the mike back for a second? Thanks!
    I forgot to mention one important point.

    You said ‘we’ need to build ‘trust’ with China. For what?????????? Don’t be fooled by His Holiness the Dalai lama or Samdhong Rincpoche trying to do whatever they could to appease China. They are not our representative sample. Tibet belongs to Tibetans, us. and we want our Tibet back. Simple. We aren’t saying Beijing is part of Tibet or Shanghai is, and demanding them back. We dont need to/have to build trust or prove anything to anyone, including China to demand what’s rightfully ours. We dont care what Hu Jintao or Wen Jaibo does in China, or Chinese do. This is their business. Give our Tibet back, and all the money you have invested in Tibet, we will shove it back to you.

    You enjoy the anonymity the internet provides, but I hate it. Wish i could sit next to you and have this discussion.

    Free Tibet!

  23. sonam | March 27th, 2009 | 11:35 am

    An Interview with Jamyang Norbu:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3c9_1206492907

  24. sonam | March 27th, 2009 | 11:49 am

    Jamyang Norbu speaks:

    http://blip.tv/file/1144794/

  25. sonam | March 27th, 2009 | 11:54 am

    A Commentary by Jamyang Norbu:

    http://www.vimeo.com/1523649

  26. sonam | March 27th, 2009 | 11:56 am

    Jamyang Norbu blasts China:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXrY_FVToUA

  27. Religion is Poison | March 27th, 2009 | 9:36 pm

    Dawa says “I don’t buy made in china and I don’t buy stuff from chinatowns or the streets of chinatowns”

    I admire your determination not to buy made-in-China, to help you and inji supporters to live a Chinese product-free life I think you have the right to know what products to avoid.

    1. Don’t do email, more than 85% of desktops and laptops produced today are either made or assembled in China, the rest 15% all have more or less some components from China.
    2. Don’t use cell phone for the same reason.
    3. Don’t get sick, most first-line generic drugs to treat infectious diseases contain Chinese-made active ingredients like amoxicillin, vancomycin, amphotericin B, and the list goes on. China even becomes the only producing country for some life saving drugs.
    4. Don’t take vitamins, more than 90% of worldwide supply of vitamin C come from China as an example. For that matter you may want to give up process food all together that uses vitamin C as a preservative.
    5. Don’t buy solar energy products, China supply 90% of solar panels worldwide. It’s green but not China-free, damn.
    6. Don’t waive Tibetan flags when you do protest next time, last year a factory in Guangdong was raided by Chinese police for making Tibetan flags for an overseas buyer (possibly protest organizers).

  28. Dawa | March 27th, 2009 | 10:37 pm

    Religion is Poisin
    My Laptop is Made in USA. My cellphone is made in Malaysia. My Sony Walkman is made in Malaysia. My clothes are from US, India, Vietnam, Honduras, Mexico, Bangladesh etc. I don’t know about the medicine since I am not sick but thanks for warning me.
    By the way my handbags are from Colombia, India, Nepal and Italy. Most of my shoes are from Brazil and Italy. My sneakers are from Malaysia. I will wave the Tibetan National flag; you don’t need to tell me that.
    I don’t feel the need to take vitamins. The food we get in this country is nutritious enough. By the way I grow some of my food like tomatoes, okra, beans, etc. Don’t feel too confident ahout your sweatshop goods. I have plenty of friends who have no stomach for such things.

  29. Dawa | March 27th, 2009 | 10:38 pm

    Yes, I am leaving yahoo because it’s owned by Chinese and I will be using google.

  30. Dawa | March 27th, 2009 | 10:38 pm

    Google sounds cool. It must be Indian.

  31. Dawa | March 27th, 2009 | 10:40 pm

    Sorry but I forgot my camera. It’s made in Japan.

  32. Religion is Poison | March 28th, 2009 | 12:08 am

    Dawa,

    I don’t want to get too technical but computers made in the US (Dell, HP, Apple) or electronic products made in Malaysia (Sony, Samsung) are using lots of imported components from elsewhere, Pearl River delta area in China is a major source of electronic parts and many of my friends make a living in this industry. Even medicines (final dosage form) made in India, a major source of US generic drugs, is using imported Chinese active ingredient and that’s a fact. Your Japanese-made camera, if equipped with low ambient light capability, they probably import parts with rare earth element from China. Your LCD monitor will not have red color if without europium as red phosphor, another rare earth element from China.

    Your choice to avoid Chinese products is understandable but you and your friends might use Chinese products everyday unknowingly.

  33. Jamyang Norbu | March 28th, 2009 | 5:13 pm

    Religion is Poison and Kirby Tang,
    All these Made In China products were invented in the Free world and all the technologies and scientitic knowledge involved in their manufacture also. You Chinese had nothing to do in their creation. You’re just doing the coolie work. Why foreign investors and companies set up factories in China is because labour is dirt cheap in China and can be officially exploited. Most of the polluting industries in the West have also moved to China since since these countries have laws to prevent degradation of the environement or citizens health. Of course the chinese don’t give a damn as long as they make a quick buck and hence we have entire industrial towns and cities so polluted that every family in some these places have members suffering from cancer, respiratory diseases and other unimaginably dreadful diseases.

    and Chinese like RIP and Kirby are so proud of manufacturing poisoned medicine, milk, candy and toys, and exploiting your own people with the help of the Communist Party and Western Capitalists. Pathetic.

    I started a Boycott Made in China Campaign not only

  34. Religion is Poison | March 29th, 2009 | 12:20 pm

    Jamyang Norbu,

    Be a little rational if you don’t mind, I never said I am proud of poison products from China, don’t put those words in my mouth. Selling toxic toys and poison medicine are nothing less than disgusting and shameful.

    You are right, most of the technologies we enjoyed everyday are invented in the west but developing countries including China are catching up fast. Last year Huawei, a Chinese telecommunications company ranks number one with a total of 1737 patent filings in the world among all the company and individual applicants for the Patent Cooperation Treaty. Another example is Trisenox, a drug to treat a particular type of leukemia was invented in China and approved by FDA a few years ago. You don’t know this because western media never report this kind of news. I hope that is not so “coolie work” to you.

    Do whatever you like to boycott made-in-China that is your right no one can dispute that, I just want to point out trashing made-in-China in a wholesale fashion can not deny the fact that you are using products made-in-China everyday.

  35. Jamyang Norbu | March 29th, 2009 | 1:05 pm

    Trisenox has not been “invented”. It has been taken from traditional Chinese medicine, where it is known as Pi Shuang and is still used to treat cancer and other conditions.Pharmaceuticl companies world wide have “invented” cures from the medical traditions of India, Tibet, Australian aborigines, Amazon Indians and others. In many cases just ripping of these peoples.

    Speaking of ripping off, China is number in the world for manufacturing knock-off luxery products, pirating the creative products of other countries eg movies, music etc and also for stealing the technology and research of other people.

  36. Religion is Poison | March 29th, 2009 | 1:49 pm

    Jamyang Norbu,

    Pharmaceutical invention in this case means identify a safe use of a known substance for new indications, leukemia was not a known disease in ancient time; Pi Shuang was used in traditional Chinese medicines and it probably killed more people than it would cured because of overdose. Chinese doctors identified a safe dose (hign enough to treat a disease but low enough not to kill patient) and conducted many clinical trials to make it work before licensed to a western company. It is a true invention and many more drugs are in development now.

    Pirating is a problem in China although not unique in the developing world but certainly is under the spotlight because of its size. It took Hong Kong and Taiwan nearly two decades to educate people to respect IP and not to buy knock-off products; it’s not totally eradicated but much better now. Law enforcement and long term education campaign are the solutions.

  37. Dawa | March 29th, 2009 | 2:57 pm

    Religion is Poison

    Although ethical issues of piracy, stolen intellectual property etc are matters of concern, the most important reason a Tibetan should not buy made in ch ina is not to give business to China. In the Tibetan settlements in India we had bonfire of Chi nese made products in the 1980’s and people vowed never to buy such goods again. I kept my word and my purse and my conscience both are better off. I will do my part not to enrich your land. But I
    will not stop myself from becoming better equiped to fight for the rights of my people. I am an activist, not a blind activist.

  38. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | March 29th, 2009 | 10:46 pm

    Religion is Poision,

    I bet many, if not all, of the 1737 patent filed were other people’s research stolen by China by hacking into overseas researcher’s computers.
    And it appears that hacking from China is backed and organized by the Chinese government.
    Hacking for security information, hacking for industrial espionage, hacking for stealing other people intellectual properties, …and what not.

    “……Pi Shuang was used in traditional Chinese medicines and it probably killed more people than it would cured because of overdose. Chinese doctors identified a safe dose (hign enough to treat a disease but low enough not to kill patient) and conducted many clinical trials to make it work before licensed to a western company. It is a true invention and many more drugs are in development now……”

    Your comment above makes me laugh.
    In countries with proper rule of law and respect for human rights, a series of in-vitro experiments are done followed by experiments on animal models to test the efficacy and safety, and to establish Proof of Concept.
    Only then are clinical trials done in humans.
    Of the fours phases of clinical trials in humans, Phase 1 is done by administering the drug to healthy young human adults to establish its toxicity and safety limits.
    Once phase 1 proves its minimal safety, then only do you use it in patients to ascertain the efficacy and safety in actual patients. Even then, there are many ethical issues and legal matters that need to be considered to subject a patient to a new experimental drug.

    But I bet, China skipped all the in-vitro part as well as the animal model tests. It is sure to have even skipped the young adult clinical trial phase.
    The most likely scenario is that the Chinese are likely to have used actual patients as guinea pigs even before establishing proof of concept. The launch of this drug is sure to have been achieved over deaths of hundreds, if not thousands, of patients.
    If the government can very publicly bull-doze hundreds of demonstrators in the streets of Beijing and then claim that only a few were killed, what can stop them from conducting experiments on living humans in the name of development and to demonstrate “China’s superiority in technology”

    TCL

  39. the LIZARD KING | March 30th, 2009 | 6:46 am

    i think I-BELIEVE told us what we need to hear..you know what.. our ears were always meant for diamonds and eyes for gold. we never accept critics, sour talks..its like leprocy..one day whole of our body will be eaten up.. the tibetans left in tibet are living through the bloody hell of chinese brutality..no freedom at all but the chinese couldn’t take over the love song sung for our tibet by the roaring hearts of our brothers and sisters over there..don’t break their hearts at the least..be rational,.go for the truth. TIBET HAS NEVER BEEN A PART OF CHINA SO WHY? WHY THE HELL DO WE NEED TO APPEASE THEM??
    A CHANGE is needed in our society..A change for our Tibet…A change to keep the flame burning in the coming storm…or else i fear soon we’LL be no more tibetans..merely a keep-smiling-chinks

    YOU DO OR YOU DIE…but DON’T SPREAD THE PLAGUE

  40. Pasang | March 30th, 2009 | 10:29 am

    JN la,
    One request. Please keep out these Chinks out of this blog: Kirby Tang, I Beleve, umeylam, Religion is poison and others. I think they are just playing games with us. They are a total distraction to the main discussion about Tibetan independence. They are just wasting our time in futile arguments. Please think about it. what do you other guys think?

  41. Religion is Poison | March 30th, 2009 | 11:36 am

    TCL,

    Thank you for the background introduction of the pre-clinical testing requirement before clinical phase posting, I am aware of this but don’t want to bore everyone so I skipped the detail. I don’t know about earlier clinical testing cases but this one I know for sure was done by the book, later presented in an international conference then caught the attention by an American company.

    Pasang,

    If your community decided to kick us out so be it. To indulge in an echo chamber to reinforce your belief and sorrow is comforting but unable to reach out non-fenqing Chinese is a shame.

  42. Sangay | March 30th, 2009 | 12:07 pm

    Religion Is Poison is fairly rational when compared with other hardcore CCP zombies who will take truth to their graves but you will never acknowledge China invaded Tibet. Having said this I’m not saying RIP is problem-free. He may live in one of the world’s freest nations -USA (i think he mentioned that once) on earth, but like every Chinese he unfailingly carries that unique Chinese Egoistic Bone that prods themselves of knowing more and us so little and displays the pan-chinse sense of victimhood of west’s media bias, both of which are actually well-orchestrated CCPs ploy to create the sensibilities among chinese masses. For example he brags about Chinese medical inventions which is actually achieved through plagiarism and goes on to say “you don’t know about this because western media dont report on this kind of news”. English is not my first language, so let me use this word – pathetic.

  43. umeylam | March 30th, 2009 | 8:03 pm

    sangay,
    why are the middle way voices not allowed to be heard here? i havent threatened anyone here nor did i use profanity. i was simply sticking to my beliefs regarding our common situation. as is the case here i am not the only one who believes in the effacy of the middle way herbal medication for the homelessness disease that we all are suffering for 6 decades now.
    if sticking to one’s beliefs is a crime then what is the suppression of democratic rights–like freedom of speech/writing/expression being commited here repeatedly by jamyang norbu?

    how different is he from mao-the dictator?

    i think listening to both sides of the arguement on any tibet related issues is very helpful, however sour and bitter it may be, to all the parties concerned in opening their eyes to the ground realities and its possibilities and limitations.

    but just ignoring those questions you do not want to hear will only add darkness all around your mental vision if you have one, and will also give you embarassing/dummy time when you are on radio or tv or video interviews.

    people want to know how you support your ideas
    and refute others with reasoning power, not with that dumb angry look.

    agree?

  44. Billk | March 30th, 2009 | 10:55 pm

    Umeylam,

    Middle way voices do not get silenced here. Chinese people do not get silenced here, even when they get abusive or when they pose as Tibetans or Injis.

    BTW: Tibetans are not homeless. They have a home – Tibet. Unfortunately, those who are living in their homeland have had to endure constant brutality from the occupiers, who have made their homeland a living hell. Those who have escaped and are using their precious freedom to support their sisters and brothers still in Tibet are constantly derided by Chinese ultra-nationalists and their tiny but unfortunately influential coterie of Western supporters.

    BTW: Every word you use reveals you as Chinese not Tibetan. If you really support the middle way, why don’t you come out as a Chinese person who can longer back the CCP’s policy of cultural genocide in Tibet and really does want to make things better? Why don’t you start arguing for how real autonomy can be made to work?

    Tell your fellow Chinese they must allow Tibetans to practice their religions (Buddhist, Pon and Islam) freely, without CCP thugs breathing down their necks all day long and ordering them to attend “study” sessions and prove that they follow the CCP line on acceptable religious practice.
    Tell them that, in Tibet, the first language should be Tibetan, all the way through school, in universities and in all public institutions – and that Chinese people who want to work in Tibet should learn Tibetan.
    Tell them that Tibetans should be able to make a decent living, rather than being pushed to the back of every single job queue.
    Tell them that nomadic peoples should be able to continue their traditional ways of life and not be subject to forced relocation in villages that resemble prison camps and where they are guaranteed to fall into despair.
    I could go on.

    If you say no to any of those things then you do not support any “middle way” that amounts to more than capitulation to Chinese imperialism and acquiescence to the slow death of the Tibetan nation.

  45. Pasang | March 31st, 2009 | 10:58 am

    JN la, ambum golok,
    I strongly feel these Chinese are wasting our time. this is same thing as Chinese government wasting TGIE time by their negotiations. All these Chinese and pseudo-Tibetans are wasting our time. We should be talking about what to do for Rangzen or for our suffering brothers and sisters in Tibet. all these guys Kirby zang RIp etc are chinese agents who are involving us in endless useless discussions. One sounds little more reasoanble than the other, but that is typical trick. JNla do not reply to these agents of Beijing. You are wasting time that you could be using to write more important articles.

  46. Religion is Poison | March 31st, 2009 | 2:17 pm

    This is for my own education, any honest response welcomed and no profanity if possible.

    1.It seems to me the only chance to get complete full independence of Tibet is after a Soviet Union type collapse in China, do you think that would happen? if so when?

    2.How would you deal with the insurmountable strong suspicion of foreign interference behind Tibet issue among the majority of Chinese?

  47. jigme | March 31st, 2009 | 4:06 pm

    Religion is poison,
    I will give my humble opinion to the questions aired by you.

    1. Your question regarding whether aRangzen would be only possible after a soviet type collapse?
    Not necesarly but naturally that would be the best thing that could happen to us. I do hope that it would be otherwise however. You and I and all of us know that authoritarian power, no matter how strong it may appear-can collapse like a pack of cards. China is not the USA. It may be the fastest developing country, the most populated and made seemingly huge progress in all fields but it is not a democratic state. If china cannot raise the living standards of its 300 million or so below the poverty living people within the naext few years its going to have serious problems.Eventually something has got to give.You cannot compare it to India-which as Margaret Thatcher put it is a functioning anarchy! Things are bad but at the end of the day its a democratic state. Mind you there are many areas which are asking for independence-Nagaland, Kashmir etc. Theses are dealt within the framework of the constitution . Elections are held in Kashmir! Anyone is allowed to stand.The most popular leader at the momemt in Kashmir Omar Abdullah openly who is a member of Parliament openly advocates a genuine form of autonomy for Kashmir.Is he called a splittist? A wolf in sheeps clothing? No he is regarded in the whole of India as one of its most dynamic and promising leaders.In the state of Nagaland, there is a parallel virtually independent administration run by the secessionists and they call it Nagalim.The Indian army doesnt go in and exterminate them.In fact reporters openly report about all this in the rest of the nation. The Indian government also holds elections there and everyone can stand for elections.They try through dialogue to solve the situation.With all its flaws you canot compare it to China. China is a colonising power in Tibet and it is this very arrogant, ignorant and brutal occupation that will make the tibetans rise against them . I dont think they would even care how and if they achieved rangzen.

    2.this is a very good question because all chinese from the mainland have been brought up with this idea that the western powers are behind the problems in Tibet. But i would argue that it is exactly the chinese government which labels the tibetan leadre a wolf….sheeps clothing, liar, and all the other choicest expletives that is causing this deep resentmen among Tibetans among other reasons. The western leadrs merely do what politically correct is. When they guage that the popularity of the Dalai Lama is extremely high in their countries they are naturally going to respond to that accordingly.
    One example of how ignorant and arrogant many chinese are. I met a chinese couple operating a travel agency in Switzerland. I spoke in my limited Mandarin and they were pleasantly surprsed when I said I came from India. The man however expressed his surprise at the fact that so many tibetan from the countryside (now living in Switzerland) that he had met who apparently spoke hardly a word of chinese! Here I was someone from India, living in Switzerland having to learn 5 languages yet took the pain to learn some Mandarin- and there a few million chinese sttlers in Tibet almost all of whom do not speak a word of Tibetan. In fact they assume every tibetan has to know chinese although the tibetans were living there for over 2 millenia(using Tibetan!!).
    The misguided Chinese are not in a position to hold others accountable for something they themselves do not understand.
    So I dont think your question merits a worthy answer!!

  48. Golok Ambum | March 31st, 2009 | 4:13 pm

    Ustang and inside_politics,

    Your comments won’t be published. They are irrelevant ad hominem attacks on Khampas and are out of the scope of JN’s post.

    Golok Ambum
    Webmaster

  49. Dawa | March 31st, 2009 | 5:18 pm

    I agree with Jigme’s post especially in believing that history of China and India are incomparable. One is a functioning demorcracy and the other is repressive regime fearful of dissent.
    To the 2nd part also I will stress the point that’s already made that the change will have to come from the Chinese people themselves. They will have to open their ears and eyes to the facts and stop just swallowing lies their government spew. The Chinese people will have to accept the fact that their country invaded another nation.
    Just imagine how you chinese would react if I call the Nanking incident as liberation of the chinese from their foot-binding fetishists. To call invasion of Tibet as serf liberation day and forcing our suffering people to celebrate it grates deeply.

  50. PRIME MINISTER | March 31st, 2009 | 8:22 pm

    jamyang norbu and lhasang tsering,
    you two are the only people in the whole exile tibetan community who have been so vocal about the need to fight for independence for the last almost 4 decades now. the rest just continue to fail to speak up for the beliefs–be it in the streets or govt offices or special meetings.
    on this i salute you!

    many people like me had a great difficulty in choosing the prime minister on two different elections. in both the elections there were only two candidates–and the old same candidates. samdong rinpoche and juchen thupten namgyal. both the candidates were not upto my expectations. both lacked political skills and education. one is a sort of philosopher and the other a controversial figure. and both are old timers.

    so to say i did not vote.

    how sad it was that exile tibetan community of nearly 200 hundred thousand could produce no more than just 2 “green brain” candidates and we cried, drank and mourned for weeks.

    it is my request to jamyang norbu(more factual, diplomatic yet will not let the goal of independence go away at any cost) to stand up for the kalon tripa election in 2011. lhasang tsering is braver patriotically but more rhetoric, angry and dictatorial which many can’t stand and therefore the danger of inviting unpopularity esp among the elders).

    i like many other youth will be so happy to see a positive change.

    and i am only too happy to sponsor the election campaign in atleast 100 different tibetan localities/settlements in india, nepal and bhutan.
    let us know your thoughts on this.

  51. Tenpa | March 31st, 2009 | 9:23 pm

    Why do we have to care what the Chinese people feel about Tibetans? Since when did the oppressed have to have the added burdan of making sure the oppressors are happy and guiltfree as they are busy annihilating our people in our own land? This is the stupid logic I don’t get in the whole middlepath process. And I don’t mean I don’t understand why they are doing it (I get that part) but the degree of appeasement seem so pathetic it is bordering on insanity these days. We are almost willing to say anything and accept anything for something that is not even promised or even hinted at. What exactly are we trying to save here again? Recently, here in Toronto, we are not allowed to say ‘China out of Tibet now!’ and instead we have to say ‘CCP out of Tibet now!’ because some Chinese found the previous slogan offensive. Why do we have to bend over backwards to oblige any request from Chinese counterparts when it doesn’t make sense and further confuses people. It is not only the CCP we want out of Tibet, we want most of the chinese settlers out of Tibet because we don’t want to a minority in our own country. We understand if we hurt their feelings but they got to understand they are doing worst things in Tibet and just let it go.

  52. Tibet in Australia | March 31st, 2009 | 10:18 pm

    Jamyang la,

    Your words from within reaches other shores of continent. Thuk-je-che!

  53. Billk | March 31st, 2009 | 11:01 pm

    Tenpa-la

    I’ve heard about the difficulties in Toronto and Vancouver, where people from mainland China are flexing their demographic muscle.

    You might find the main cartoon from today’s Melbourne Age (April 1st, 2009) amusing

    http://www.theage.com.au/cartoons/

  54. kalon tripa | March 31st, 2009 | 11:23 pm

    jamyang norbu,
    will you not please stand up for 2011 prime ministral election and lead our crippled race to freedom and independence?
    miwang phola did not sit back. he gathered forces from west tibet and headed to lhasa and ruled tibet for 18 years with peace and harmony.
    you too could gather forces in exile and lead us to tibet and drive the chinks from the land of snows for good.

  55. Dawa | March 31st, 2009 | 11:56 pm

    Hi, BillK, That cartoon is the wittiest comment on our present situation. It is funny as hell.
    Thanks for bringing some (dark) humor in here. (By the way, that gucci and ysl of many posts ago was my attempt at humor.)

  56. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | April 1st, 2009 | 12:12 am

    Religion is Poison,

    “…..I don’t know about earlier clinical testing cases but this one I know for sure was done by the book, later presented in an international conference then caught the attention by an American company…..”

    How did the Chinese developer of the drug gathered the information necessary to prove its efficacy and safety? That is what I am contesting, and not whether any American company showed interest in it or not.

    Your scientists will surely have killed countless patients titrating and re-titrating the dose to find the ideal efficacy and safety balance. After doing all the “coolie work”, you then out-licensed the product to the American company. What a bright idea! Buddy, you do the dirty work and the American company is the one who will reap the real profit.

    So China is not only a place that accomodates all the toxic factories of the world, it now have become a place to conduct all harardous scientific experiments on human beings!!
    That is possible only in a totalitarian regime without proper check mechanisms.
    TCL

  57. Another Aussie Speaks | April 1st, 2009 | 7:51 am

    Many overseas Chinese (particularly in Southeast Asia), and I believe some mainland Chinese also, have taken refuge in Tibetan Buddhism. These people are basically well-disposed toward Tibetans and their culture, and hold the lamas in high regard like Tibetans do. However, in speaking to them, I realise that their level of understanding of the Tibetan freedom struggle requires a major improvement. It falls short of complete attunement to the message of Free Tibet.

    Just having more and more Chinese people become coverted to Tibetan Buddhism itself will not liberate Tibet – from the Chinese. They have to learn to understand the pain of the Tibetan people in a self-reflective manner and start initiating withdrawl from Tibet.

    The Tibetan Buddhist practice of Chod involves a graphic visualisation of complete self-overcoming. Let us start with the Chinese people who have come to Tibetan Buddhism for refuge. (On the tactical level, this is an antidote to the Tibetan religion becoming gradually appropriated by the Chinese.) If you are Chinese, meditate on selflessness by visualising all the violence committed against Tibetan men, women and children being done against you. Visualise in detail the methods used and imagine feeling the tremendous mental and physical pain that they cause. Can you then extend, like the Tibetan monks and nuns who are political prisoners, bodhicitta to your oppressors?

    Nevertheless, such visualisation is done in a meditative context and pales in comparison to the day-to-day reality of the Tibetan freedom struggle. However, if the visualisasion exercise can spread among the mainland Chinese as a spiritual exercise, then there is a possibility of a more meaningful dialogue between Tibetans and Chinese.

  58. Another Aussie Speaks | April 1st, 2009 | 8:22 am

    In this visualisation recommended firstly for Chinese followers of Tibetan Buddhism, which is aimed at raising their political awareness, by “bodhicitta” I certainly do not mean forgiveness of China. Far from it. No Chinese should make any kind of excuse for Chinese occupation of Tibet. Bodhicitta, in this instance, is “politicised” so that maximum empathy goes to the Tibetan people – and zero tolerance for Chinese colonialism. This does not have to mean violence. Instead, a very positive thing that the Chinese in Tibetan Buddhism can do is to create a momentum among their own people for withdrawl of Chinese state apparatus and its agents, which include not only the army and the police but also the settlers, from Tibet. A comparable example in Australia is a grass roots movement supporting withdrawal of Australian troops from Iraq.

  59. Tsering Choedon Lejotsang | April 1st, 2009 | 10:10 am

    I second Prime Minister’s suggestion about JN running for Prime Ministership.

    May be we should start a campaign group?

    TCL

  60. jigme | April 1st, 2009 | 11:02 am

    Not a bad idea. I could live with that. But is he willing to stand? It might just jeopardise what hes trying to do. I somehow see him as a guy who can fire up people give them guidance and thereby create change. The hot seat might not be the best thing. On second thoughts, after being visisted by visual flashes of corrupt,nepotistic and incompetent people who might otherwise try to wrest this gaddi -why not?

  61. Religion is Poison | April 1st, 2009 | 11:27 am

    JIGME,

    Thank you for the insight of Indian democracy, the dragon/elephant comparison and the debate about which model is better is quite popular among Chinese, I think the jury is still out. I read an interesting book review of “Smoke and Mirrors-An Experience of China” authored by Pallavi Aiyar, an Indian journalist for The Hindus based in Beijing. This is how she answers the question of if you were born today, would you rather be Chinese or Indian? (The best option, she contends, is to be a high-caste Indian man. His political freedom would certainly outweigh the economic opportunities of any Chinese citizen, she argues. But if that weren’t possible, she’d choose to be a wealthy Chinese woman, because she wouldn’t be as constrained as her Indian counterparts by low literacy rates and limits on female participation in the public sphere. If she had to be poor, she’d go with China. An Indian latrine cleaner may get to vote, she says, but a Chinese one is far less likely to be viewed as completely subhuman). If you ask me a question if I were born today in China who would I rather be, I must admit I would rather be a Han Chinese live in coastal cities with all the opportunities than be a Tibetan or other minorities.

    Although I would not say the suspicion of the west by Chinese is entirely groundless, I do think the sense of victimhood is unhealthy.

  62. jigme | April 1st, 2009 | 11:58 am

    Religion is poison.

    This book review you read was about churned out by Pallavi Aiyar who works for Mr. N Ram the owner and editor of the Hindu. Mr. N Ram also happens to be a very vocal supporter of everything that CCP does including justifying all its policies in Tibet and also undermining the Indian Governments stand on border Issues. He however is not harassed unlike if he were in China. He is also feted in Beijing by the CCP officials. I think his is a case of biting the hand that feeds him. He uses the freedom of the press in his own country to write one-sided reports about a Government which barely has freedom of the press.truly ironical!!
    And by the way I think that the chinese model is spectacular but I wonder when the pack of cards is going to fall ? Lets just push Gordon Changs (The coming fall of China)prophesy by another 3 or 4 years. Otherwise youve got only 2 more years.

  63. Tenzing | April 1st, 2009 | 9:44 pm

    Jamyang la,

    You are awesome. Being in US and having surrounded by all the luxury that you couldn’t afford before, you tend to forget what you stand for. Your eye opening statement here makes my heart cry out to my country. I promise myself that I will not forget my origin and work on my accord to make aware of what China has done to our country and that our hope lives on even in tyranny.

    I need to read up on our history and if you could suggest some starter books. Do you have a chat site where I can ask questions and get live answers. My views are quite the opposite while back on Tibet but I am coming around and understand in better light. You are truly amazing and your speech can lift up a dying soul like mine. I thank you for this wonderful inspiring and committed wholesome voice.

  64. lodoe | April 2nd, 2009 | 8:57 am

    I like the idea to put forward Jamyang norbu la name for 2011 Kalon tripa election, It shall be much better to start campaign right NOW.

  65. Dawa | April 2nd, 2009 | 10:14 am

    Jamyang la, Do you think it’s possible to have a corner on your site where we can post links to articles and essays that are of interest to us and our cause; so that our people can participate in discussions on these sites. Here is one such.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/01/AR2009040103039.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

  66. Tenpa | April 2nd, 2009 | 9:52 pm

    Tenzing la, I really appreciate your heartfelt renewed vigor for our country and your honesty which is a rare treat. I also need to read up on a lot of books that has been stacking up on the shelf with all the usual good intentions. I am encouraged by you to start my own read ups. Together, we shall fight with everything we got and win or lose, we will not retreat.

  67. Prescott | April 4th, 2009 | 2:08 am

    On a few topics above:

    1) I have no problem with Chinese recreating or manufacturing toxic medicines. I only wish they would administer them to their own leaders, instead of exporting them to the free world!

    2) Jamyang Norbu is a great scholar, but Lhasang Tsering would have a better chance at getting some kind of position in the government…at least if the youth can vote in droves. With no disrespect to JN who is a great writer and Rangzen activist, I think Lhasang Tsering has more credentials and inspirational power. I realize the two are friends. I mean, the way Lhasang can express his point is TOTALLY brilliant, effective, articulate, convincing and just all around splendid. Not to kiss anyone’s a**; I just say what I feel straight up.

    I’d like to see Lhasang in the government, preferably in a position with access to lots of funds and money to start GETTING THE JOB DONE. JN could be his advisor.

    3) on some thread someone was complaining of a lack of genuine discussion. That’s a good point. I attribute that deficit, in turn, to a lack of independently thinking, creative, and diversely educated Chinese. All we ever get are the government drones trying to teach and preach about how much they helped Tibet, and how deluded we are. A bunch of good-for-nothing brainwashed Chinamen. When an entire argument is built on lies, its hard to have a healthy or decent debate. Since our enemy lies, we can’t talk well with him. Anyway, the time for talking is over. It’s time to drive the Chinese out for good.

    On the other side, the more conventional and narrow minded Tibetans probably fear this site like the plague. I mean, Mr. Jamyang Norbu, isn’t he some kind of irreligious extremist? Ha ha ha ha ha! They just won’t come here to talk, I guess. Frankly, I think our time is better spent nurturing the free-thinkers who are interested in genuine solutions, than entertaining the appeasers who remain convinced that for some inexplicable reason, China is going to drop a treat into their autonomous begging bowl.
    Regards,

    Prescott

  68. Billk | April 5th, 2009 | 8:38 pm

    Jamyang-la and Golok-la

    Is it possible to have Tibetan text on this site? We could ask Umeylam etc to write us a little something in Tibetan to prove they really are Tibetan and I couold get some reading practice.

  69. Hugh | April 6th, 2009 | 6:34 pm

    I_Believe,

    On March 26th (sorry, i’ve been away for some days), you wrote about Chenresig and Jampelyang being blood brothers. Doubtful, but I get your point as far as Buddhist traditional belief is concerned. You however conflate some history and much Buddhist development in equating Jampelyang (Manjushri) with China, as a parallel to Chenresig (Avalokiteshvara) with Tibet. Jampelyang or Manjushri was the “patron” of the people once known as the Jurchen, who became known as the Manchu just about when they conquered China. As much as the Manchurian rulers became sinified, the people were not Chinese, and the Buddhism practiced was lost along with Manchurian culture and language.

    Equating Manjushri as patron of China, with Chenresig as patron of Tibet is silly and ignores the history, as well as Buddhist teachings.

    Just thought to point this out.

  70. Hugh | April 6th, 2009 | 6:45 pm

    Another Aussie Speaks,

    You may perhaps know that one of the root downfalls of one who has taken bodhisattva vows is to allow dharma and its followers be destroyed. It is explicit in its implications that defense, even if violence is used, is correct – while lamentable – still correct. It is in fact in alignment with the idea that freedom to live in peace sometimes means defending oneself and one’s community (or nation) from aggression. Non-violence should never be imagined as more than a tactic in resistance. It is an outlook and way of life, but in resistance contexts, should be seen as a means to an end. To be cynical, it can be biding one’s time and wearing down the oppressor, to where a revolution against them is nearly bloodless (as has happened in some post-communist European nations). Or it can be something else entirely – but greater men and women ponder this and i admit my inexperience in much of it.

  71. Prescott | April 8th, 2009 | 3:29 pm

    Hugh, let’s go a step further than the bodhisattva vows. Almost without exception, Tibetans are Vajrayana Buddhists, even if nominally. In this tradition, there are 14 root vows to be upheld. The 10th downfall, which you can find published in various places on the web and therefore is not so secret, is:

    “Being unwilling to save sentient beings although one has the ability to do so – to refrain from forceful activity when needed so as to overcome destructive influences due to negative energies.”

    So a Vajrayana practitioner is actually oathbound to engage in forceful activity like violence if he/she has the ability to do so and clearly ascertains that it is necessary to overcome demonic forces. This could reasonably involve everything from ritually exorcising a demon, to beating up a rapist before he gets to his prey, to joining the army to fight World War II Nazis, to resisting the Communist Chinese occupation.

    Surely the Chinese military apparatus and government count as demonic forces, which may explain why various monks and incarnations left the robes to take up arms against them.

    The myth of the “peaceful” Tibetan people is a New Age fantasy that actually flies in the face of Buddhist tradition, which allows for forceful action on both the sutric and tantric levels, when there will be benefit from it. It’s a pretty tricky point, but there are lots of examples from Tibetan history, including the previous lives of the Buddha himself, not to mention the assassin Lhalung Pelgyi Dorje, or more recently, some of the lamas who fought the Chinese in the 50’s.

    -Prescott

  72. Pema T. | April 15th, 2009 | 12:43 pm

    Billk,

    For you information, this forum is made available for all and sundry, and everyone has the right to express their opinion. Your job is to comment; be it in English or in Tibetan and you don’t need to bother whether someone is Tibetan or others.

    Anywhere you have a good friend in Tsering Choedon Lejotsang.

  73. Hugh | April 16th, 2009 | 8:53 pm

    Prescott,

    Yes the 10th downfall. This caused much argument between me and other American Vajrayana practitioners, when i was very vocal last year about what was happening in Tibet. One person had the audacity to tell me that i was getting mixed up in worldly troubles. So I told him to wake up, since the world is where we live. And Buddhism is no excuse for avoiding the world (though many imagine it can be just that). In fact if one practices Buddhism sincerely, there is no escape from this world. This is where we are and who we are. And if some people want to imagine that they can escape this and chant away the badness, then they are what the old Greeks called “lotus eaters” and cannot be taken seriously.

    LOL

    I hope this drivel of mine made some sense.

  74. Sangay | April 17th, 2009 | 9:00 am

    Hugh,

    You are right. It stuns me beyond my belief when i see some Tibetan Buddhism followers say they dont care about the political matters of Tibet, but only its religion. It’s like saying I love orange, but I don’t care to put water to its tree.

    Tibet’s battle against China is not only a battle for independence of a nation, but also for the survival and preservation of the very religion they are fond of and practising. Saying “Free Tibet” is not akin to saying “yes, we can” during president Obama’s presidential campaign. It’s much more than that. These dharma practitioners have no clue what they are saying. Pathetic.

  75. tundup | November 8th, 2009 | 5:43 pm

    Hello Jamyangla,

    If you want to know what some young overseas Chinese was reading on Tibet in 2008, check out this “history lesson”.

    http://www.chinesewithoutborders.org/downloads/Seminars/01/Seminar01_TangTuboHistory_English.pdf

  76. Mipham | November 8th, 2009 | 9:37 pm

    I want ask the webmaster Golok la regarding the authencity of the comment # 54. Is it really our Prime Minister who has posted the comment? If so, then it’s really a good beginning of Tibetan Democracy in exile.

  77. Golok Ambum | November 9th, 2009 | 3:43 am

    Mipham.

    Of course it is not the Prime Minister, but someone using his name and posting from Brooklyn.

    Golok Ambum, Webmaster

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