Those of us who grew up in the world’s largest democracy – Jai Hind! – know a thing or two about electoral hijinks: poll rigging, vote buying, proxy voting, and such exotic regional variations as “ballot stuffing” and “booth capturing”. But however desperately Indian netas, their chamchas, chelas and goondas try – in their remorseless quest for power – to undermine the democratic process, the Election Commission (EC) of India is always there to to save the day.
The Indian EC is universally regarded as the effective and incorruptible guardian of free and fair elections throughout India. Even the occasional criticism it receives are minor – not responding to complaints quickly enough, and so on. Last year I came across an article by Tahir Mehdi in DAWN, Pakistan’s oldest and most widely-read English language newspaper, offering a detailed analysis and fulsome praise of India’s EC. This is a must read piece for Tibetans as it presents an interesting contrast to the failings of the Tibetan Election Commission in Dharamshala.
Our Tibetan EC has a checkered past, largely as it is not a true autonomous constitutional authority, like its Indian equivalent, but just a small department of the CTA, whose staff members (all good people, no doubt) do what they are told by their superiors. I remember when I was editor of Mangtso (in ’93 or thereabouts?) that an ill-advised EC decision caused violent inter-cholka fighting and the thrashing of a guest-house below the Gangkyi taxi stand – even the rough-handling of Mangtso photographer, Lobsang Wangyal. After we printed the story our office was invaded by a McLeod Ganj mob. In 1981, the Tibetan parliament and the EC equivalent then, suspended chitue elections altogether and had the Dalai Lama select Deputies to the Assembly through a kind of divinatory process called yeshe emche. It was, of course, a cringe-making disaster. I’ve written about these things before and it depresses me just to just recall them.
But the EC appears to have outdone itself in incompetence (or deviousness?) in the latest Tibetan Sikyong elections. These are two-stage elections, and the first polling was held on Sunday 18th October of this year. Rough preliminary results showed Lobsang Sangay with a tremendous lead, Penpa Tsering coming in second and Lukar Jam and Tashi Wangdi vying for third place.
On Tuesday, the 20th of October, two days after the polls had closed the EC announced on Tibet.net (the official CTA website) that a new rule had been enacted whereby the second and final stage ballot would be limited to just two candidates, unless the third candidate came within 20% of the vote total of the second candidate. This announcement was also carried on VOT and also on Phayul.com and other Tibetan media sources. The date of the announcement in all the reports was Tuesday 20, October.
An American lawyer friend noted “…this decision by the Tibetan EC — made two days after the vote — would make the election process so arbitrary as to be illegitimate.” Another observer, a first-time voter and political activist from Switzerland, Tashi Shitsetsang noted in an incisive article that “… it is not difficult to believe that the purpose of the 20% rule is to exclude Sikyong candidate Lukar Jam from the race.” She also describes her disillusionment with the whole process. “I felt very excited to make use of my rights as a Tibetan Green Book holder for the first time. I was ready to finally embrace our democracy, but what awaited me was truly shocking.” Both observers also made this comparison to the Sikyong elections of 2011 where fourth place candidate Tashi Wangdi was allowed on the final ballot with only 5% (2,101) of the votes of the second candidate Tenzin Tethong’s 12,319 votes in the primary election.
Phayul.com reported in 2011 that “… the Election Commission had shortlisted a total of top six candidates for the final round of its election.” … “Three candidates later withdrew their candidacy.” The withdrawals were entirely voluntary. No candidates were excluded by the EC from the final round. So when was this 20% cut-off rule created and established?
The latest, I repeat LATEST, changes to the bylaws regarding election rules, published by the Tibetan parliament and dated 25 September 2015, makes no reference to a 20% rule. Check out the full document on this link. It takes a while for the pdf file to download.
Arbitrary and undemocratic application of election regulations, are, of course, not unusual in Tibetan elections. One occurrence should be set out in some detail, especially as it concern Lukar Jam’s previous attempt at participating in CTA elections. In November 2013, when Kirti Dolkar Lhamo, the incumbent MP from Domey (Amdo) constituency resigned, her seat, according to a new amendment, was to automatically pass on to the candidate who was next in the vote count, in this case Lukar Jam. The Election Commission however argued that since this amendment had been decided after the 2011 elections it could only come into force after the next (2015?) elections. This might sound absolutely absurd and arbitrary, but the EC didn’t stop there. It switched this same absurd rule a couple of years later when it suited Dharamshala’s convenience. When Chungdak Koren, the European MP, resigned in March 2014 for health reasons, her seat was automatically passed on to Wangpo Tethong who had secured the third highest votes in Europe. No elections had taken place in the interim.
Getting back to the present, and the new EC 20% rule, the discrepancy and perhaps even the underhandedness of this decision appeared to have been noticed by a three-member independent team monitoring the preliminary elections. The monitors from Asia Democracy Network , the Asian Network for Free Elections and Forum-Asia, in association with the Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy presented their observation and findings at a press conference at Dharamshala. The delegation praised the EC’s overall efforts, given the problems of “the (Tibetan) stateless diaspora spread across the globe”.
But they took issue with the EC’s 20% decision and announcement of the new process of Sikyong candidates advancing to the final elections. “We are less concerned about which Sikyong candidates advance to the next round. But having the criteria clear before the elections, when the results are not known yet, is crucial, otherwise it opens the EC to criticisms.”. In a real democracy it opens the EC to a lot more. If the election commissioner in a real democracy and real elections had rewritten the rules after the polls had closed, he or she would, at a minimum, be liable to criminal prosecution.
What must be puzzling to many non-Tibetan observers of the Tibetan election is that Lukar Jam had not even come close to beating the front runner who was leading him by over ten times his (Lukar’s) votes. Even the second place Penpa Tsering (10,137) had over five times Lukar’s vote. So why bother trying to run him out of the final stage of the election? There’s not an snowball’s chance in hell that he would make up the votes in the final elections. So what’s going on?
Anyone who’s been paying even cursory attention to the Sikyong elections will have noticed the virulence with which the establishment has sought to discredit Lukar Jam Atsok. It started with the speaker of the Parliament, Penpa Tsering, going around to the major monasteries in the South where the largest bloc vote communities are, and making the announcement that he would not debate anyone who criticized the Dalai Lama. As the Tibetan Political Review noted it “… appeared to be a thinly-veiled reference to pro-independence candidate Lukar Jam”. Other monasteries and establishments jumped on the loyalty bandwagon, Gyutoe monastery even issuing a written statement declaring it would not allow any critic of the Dalai Lama to speak at their monastery. When Lukar Jam went to South India he was banned from speaking at the TCV hostel at Bangalore and also at the Dalai Lama College, both controlled by the Dalai Lama’s sister, Jetsun Pema. Some students met privately with Lukar Jam. Although the major monasteries were off-limits to him he managed to speak to the monks of a non-establishment (non-Gelukpa) monastery in the South.
Inside Tibet 149 people have immolated themselves for Tibetan freedom. In China we have have had a series of stock market crashes and clear indications of a possible economic catastrophe overwhelming that country. In the Pacific the possibility of a major conflict between China and the US and its regional allies, is growing. None of these issues have in, any way, been discussed or even touched upon by establishment candidates in the Sikyong elections. Even the public discussions and comments have focused almost entirely on Lukar Jam not being respectful to the Dalai Lama, and on Lukar’s criticism of the Dalai Lama for giving up Tibetan independence. For the record it should be made clear that Lukar Jam did not say that the Dalai Lama is a “Traitor” (gyaltsongpa) as his critics are all insisting, and using to instigate the Tibetan public to oppose and possibly even attack him.
Just last month, on the day of the elections a video was posted on YouTube of Jetsun Pema, the Dalai Lama’s sister, and former director of the Tibetan Children’s village, denouncing, in the strongest of terms, all those Tibetans not showing gratitude to the Dalai Lama and daring to criticize him.
Another Youtube video was posted on November 3rd of His Holiness at a special religious ceremony at the main Temple in Dharamshala. He gave a brief political address where he said he was very happy with those who had declared their undying faith in the Middle Way Approach policy. He also said he was very happy with those Tibetan committed to implementing this policy through “direct involvement” (shar-kyoe), and he thanked all of them. He also said that his feelings were hurt (lo-pham) by those who instead of saying that he had done a good job, said that his policies had failed.
From what I have heard from Dharamshala, Middle Way devotees are interpreting His Holiness’ words as encouraging some kind of “direct action” against Tibetans who disagree with the Dalai Lama’s Middle Way policy and call for Tibetan Independence. Lukar Jam Atsok and his supporters in McLeod Ganj are facing increasingly hostile opposition, possibly even a potential mob attack by yahoos of the religious-right, as has happened with depressing regularity too many times before.
I asked earlier “What’s going on? Why all this hysterical opposition to a candidate who hasn’t got “… a snowball’s chance in hell to win the elections?” I am convinced the reason is that even in a distant third place, Lukar Jam would, by the rules of the 2011 election, have to be recognized as a formal candidate for the final round of election. And the establishment does not want that. In the coming national debates, lectures, TV and radio discussions the establishment does not want a sincere, knowledgeable and articulate former political prisoner speaking convincingly about why Tibet must be independent and why the Middle Way Policy has failed. It would be too much like the child in the story calling out “… the Emperor has no clothes”.
So this 20% rule swindle and the endless vicious attacks on Lukar Jam are not mere incidents of election fraud of the kind that often happens, even in democratic countries. Dharamshala is now demanding that all opposition to its policies absolutely end, and that all Tibetans demonstrate eternal and undying faith in the Middle Way policy, or otherwise be prepared to face demonization, ostracizm and possibly even mob violence.
What can right thinking Tibetans, friends and supporters do to halt, or at least slow down, Dharamshala’s veering towards the ideological mind-space of the PRC (and perhaps even the PDRK), albeit without the missiles, military parades and goose-stepping, of course. I will try and discuss possible courses of action in a coming post. In the meantime I think Rangzen activists should in no way feel discouraged or unerved by recent turn of events.
I am taking heart from the solicitude and action of the 27 long-time Tibet Supporters who sent an open letter to the CTA detailing their concerns about the “undemocratic practices” of the present EC and warning that continuing support of Tibet supporters and Support Groups “… should not be wholly taken for granted”. Earlier, inji supporters tended to be as gullible as your mani-spinning amala, when it came to Tibetan politics. There is real hope that very soon such sincere Tibet supporters and genuine friends of the Dalai Lama as Professor Robert Thurman and Nancy Pelosi can be approached to join the “27”, and help strengthen Tibetan democracy.
I am also enormously encouraged by the fact that a very young Tibetan female activist, Tashi Shitsetsang, operating within the stifling confines of probably the most hide-bound and orthodox of exile communities, should openly publish (with full name and photograph) an incisive, articulate and courageous challenge to the wrongdoings of the EC. How gutsy can you get?
This fact makes me cringe. It makes me even doubt the validity of the entire process. Clearly, they(whoever that is) fear the rise of Lukar Jam. If he was in the third position in the elections, with such a hughmongously wide margin, what do they care; unless that was not true- maybe Lukar Jam was a fierce competitor for the others and we were misinformed of the results.
I am totally disheartened, this was not how my parents raised me as a Tibetan. Now I question the beneficence of the Tibetan culture. We are not good people as we always claimed.
Once again superb writing. You made my day.
Very well written JN la !
What a mess and what a disgrace !
Excellent thought provoking article. Even if it does nothing to change the status quo, it will be archived in the annals of history for future generations who will not have the same blinders on – hopefully. Cheers!!
Jamyang La, a minor typo on paragraph at end of paragraph 5. The date should be 20 October, not September.
Great article, as always.
May the force be with you.
Bhod Rangzen!
Thank you very much Jamyang Norbu la.
You have expressed the thing which I really wanted to express.
What are the steps in place for Commoners to take? The parts on this piece are parts that we know and are witnessing through media, websites, and our own common sense of how the rest of the democratic world works. We have seen, heard, and witnessed the malicious and hostile opposition to Lukar Jam throughout the elections. I am more keen on the next part of your piece where we can actually know what are our options? How do we stand together when the govt. fails? The fact that CTA is not a legalized govt. has been used time and time again to favor their own motives and outcast others. There has to be some checks and balances for CTA as well? How do we right this wrong? We know exactly why they don’t want Lukar Jam to share the podium with Lobsang Singey and Penpa Tsering. Because that would show the HUUUUUUUUGE difference in their oratorial and leadership qualities. We are waiting patiently.
Why are Tibetan girls scary smart? It says the swiss ms Tashi Shitsetsang la is only 19?? Kudos to her and a pride to me. The girl’s got PhD written all over her. We need good constitutional lawyers, with bone-deep integrity ala Archibald Cox. Her article reminded me of that great man and his non-profiteering, rock-solid principles.
“I am skeptical about EC’s use of ‘we are an exiled community’ as an excuse to justify every dubious incidents. Tibetans living in exile circumstances is no reason to accept arbitrary decisions and live with the belief that we cannot amend our system. Precisely because we are an exiled community, we have to strive for the best democracy possible and send a strong message to China that, unlike them, we have a functional democracy in exile.” – Tashi Shitsetsang
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?c=4&t=1&id=36712&article=%E2%80%98Arbitrary%E2%80%99+dance+of+Tibetan+democracy
Election by Divine Intervention is an underwhelming title IMO. Should have went Michael Moore and called this piece, STUPID TIBETAN MEN..and other excuses..lol
Let me try that again…. STUPID TIBETAN MEN and other SORRY excuses……
I left out the “SORRY” part. We’re all sorry now……
Election Commission says, we are sorry, you do not count. But please participate in exile democracy, please go out and vote, obey our laws, pay up your green book.
Just few clarifications. EC announcement made on morning of October 19 not October 20 as said in the article. If phayul.com published date as JN put than it is wrong also. They are not perfect all the time. It is discretion of EC how many candidates they will announced in the short list. EC has no knowledge of who will be top two and third and fourth candidates. When EC announce the decision counting of vote is yet to begin. I believe EC will announce six candidate in the result of preliminary election. The short list will only take place for final. JN la please go through whole text of Tibetan Election rule and make a conclusion. It is sad to say that we Tibetans never read or study the rules and laws of CTA but just listen to hearsay. That is very danger.
My personal opinion is that there is more to the issue of Middle way versus Rangzen than meets the eye. The Chinese are the ones pulling string here most certainly. When HH leaves us, they don’t want any strong group or individual to take over the Tibetan movement. They want us to be virtually battling each other than worry about China or our brothers and sisters in Tibet. They know that the middle way will fade away when HH leaves us. With the middle pathers eyes focused on destroying the Rangzen advocates they have killed two birds with one stone. Is there a way out of this Jam? I don’t think so the Damage has been done and the line in snow has been crossed only time will tell if we will survive to fight another day.
Very proud to read this article and very well written and proud to be call Tibetan. Please keep writing Good job
Thank you for informing and explaining what we all would prefer to not be tru or to hide because this truth is not compatible with our Buddhist values.
It is too frustrating and painful that such does happen …
I feel most important is now to insist that TNC be accepted as an official political party and that we organize seriously to make this party working.
An opposition Party is urgently needed.
Quite shocking to hear Ama Jetsunma talk like that. Are we going one step forward and 2 steps backward?
Not shocked at all. She’s a politician. The foundations of umay lam are shaking so now they are dealing their main cards. The jacks and queens. People are waking up and this is just the beginning. Legalized electoral corruption that you cannot even take to any court of law. Reminds me of the numerous narcissistic parents that emotionally blackmail their children into guilt submission. The road ahead is going to get worse before it gets better. more shocks are coming our way so wear your seatbelts and brace yourself. We are not going anywhere. We will bear the abuse patiently.
Not only that, it is extremely scary to feel this anonymous yet powerful simmering hatred against luker in and around Dharamsala. I have witnessed myself this whole work and working style of EC and i m not surprised to heard from one independent observer in dharamsala that he was told about 20% rule when he interviewed Mr penpa Tsering on 16th Oct 2015 and EC announcement was made on 20th of Oct. I was waiting for his comment or writing on Election but it has not come till now. I hope his recorded interview will come out to public soon.
Bravo Jamyang Norbu lhag! Even I saw this coming when I enquired before the election on various Facebook discussions, “what is the threshold for going to the second round?” or “what is the cut off point for candidates to proceed?”
I was told it was not decided yet, and that everything had been “very carefully thought through” by the respected Election Committee. I expressed my doubts that this left the process wide open to abuse. Now I see yes, it had indeed been “very carefully thought through”. I could see it coming – that after they had seen the results, they would declare a rule, any rule, by which the Rangzen candidate would be excluded, if at all possible. “No, no,” they cried, “it is not so, how could you think such a thing!”
Well, your article totally vindicates that my suspicions were well founded. I am glad to see that your research of the last election rules shows they have been deliberatly bent to eliminate the non-establishment candidate.
I agree “if the election commissioner in a real democracy and real elections had rewritten the rules after the polls had closed, he or she would, at a minimum, be liable to criminal prosecution.”
I also agree that former naive inji supporters like me are wising up fast to this nonsense.
I was happy to hear that, despite the MWA party line that we might disagree with being bulldozed through by all and any means, injis can still continue to support our Tibetan friends’ and patriots’ opposition to the CCP occupation of Tibet by joining the Tibet National Congress, and raising funds to support its campaigns and its candidates, and helping them to raise awareness and work towards the Free Tibet that we have sincerely supported for the last so many decades.
And there are many others like me who are also learning more thanks to writers like yourself and candidates like Lukar jam whose policies we study and compare with those of teh MWA and PMW. It’s what we call a “no-brainer”!
Amen to (?)
No:15 if you think you are shocked. Then you should listen to the speech of her and her husband that they gave in Switzerland. The husband goes to the extend to convey the sense that even many westerners believe His Holiness is the incarnation of Chenrizig. Really, Westerners?
As White says, something desperate is happening. I think Lukar Jam really shook the very foundation of Umay Lam.
The Dhogyal monk turned His Holiness the Dalai Lama faithful, in a teary interview said one think that struck in my head. He said, Shugden leaders went to China and told Chinese authorities that they are 20,000 strong Shugden faithfuls who all wanted to return to China (Tibet) but the Chinese authorities turned down their request and said PRC finds them more useful outside than inside,but will be funded well.
I am thinking if this is true,then what is true for Shugden followers could be true for Umaelam people. Sikyong Lobsang Sangay went to the extend say in U.S. at the Council on Foreign Relations that CTA does n’t challenge even China’s communist party rule and just want to give up everything and come home. China might have told the same thing, we want you stay in India for a while. First get rid of all the traces from very the foundation of exile struggle and then return back. Just guessing. What is good for goose is good for gander?
JN, the monastery is not Gyotoe,branch of which is in Bomdila (?) and another branch near Norbulingka, Dharamsala where Karmapa is staying. The monastery that closed the door for Lukar Jam is Gyumey , one that is based in Hunsur Tibetan Settlement.
With monasteries like this, I was told there is one connection; many of the monastic leaders are “phayul Chekpa” of the abbot of Namgyal monastery (Thromtok Rinpoche?). This lama seems to be on overdrive. But this could be hearsay, which needs further verification.
As it goes, I wholeheartedly watched the videos on Youtube and find no reason to panic as Jetsun Pema was invited to give a talk and she shared her side of the opinions just like Jamyang lak too do every now and then. so in my opinion, our democracy is vibrant and growing.
Now many here indulge in personal attacks and that will gladden the heart of Shugden fan and CCP.
Your Excellency Samten-la:@ 21
There is H U U U G E problem with this speech. It is being disrespectful to people and the law that binds us all as a citizen of Tibetan nation.
There is one word for which she can be persecuted under Election law, if it has some teeth or unless Tibetan democracy is ” unique” where Yabshis are above the law.
She utters one word: ” Sang-ney ” meaning tomorrow , when you go to vote, and if you cast your vote for someone criticize His Holiness …blah blah” sort of meaning then you will burn in hell or sky will fall or earth will crack open or whatever.
Under the law, there is a ban on public campaign like one she is doing twenty four hours (?) right before the election. She has every right to say whatever she was saying anytime but not day before election. There is a rule. Any citizen who does not follow the rule will be prosecuted by taking away their right to vote etc.
She claims 42 years of sacrifice and service for Tibetan community and held the post of Education Minister. She didn’t the rules? Or is it that she didn’t care? She thinks that being His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s sister entitles her to be above the law. Oh, yeah. I forgot, our democracy is ” divine bestowed” and there are always special privileges for some. Yes, there is problem. It is called not practicing what you preach; the importance of being honest, truthful and all the crap. The solution is : enough of lectures and follow the law.
Just overheard a Greek saying, “someday I might enter religion instead of politics, with the Gods behind you, you can be far more IRRESPONSIBLE!”. So was said by the Greek politician.
Amen to White’s post 22. Strange metamorphosis of the bipolar character.
As mentioned earlier I don’t have any problems. If you have then do something. It’s your fight man. I am not a part of you.
I was very disappointed when His Holiness did not give a unifying speech for both rangzen & umaylam supporters, because he is the only unifying force in our Tibetan Community. But rather chose to speak one sided. We already have division due to the Shungden scandal, and now there is going to be further division among rangzen and umaylam supporters. This is not going to benefit anybody, but China. It will make the Tibetan struggle weaker. So now it is up to each and every Tibetan to think carefully and decide whether to stand in unity and accept our differences in the fight against China, or start witch hunting each other and destroy ourselves.
Jamyang Norbu la, I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and well written articles.
There should be a lobby group to initiate boycott of voting for sykyong in protest unless mean-spirited 20% rule is squashed into pieces, tossed into rusty musty dustbin of the EC office.
Let’s fight for justice and lukar Jam!
And bravely savor coffee, bacon and ham!
Hurray Rangzen walas
Hurray dhasa tamashas
Jamyang la,
Post# 22
Using my account name “white” deliberately to undermine my comments. I requested you few days back to delete this account. I hope you did not ignore my request because you don’t like where I stand and indirectly supporting this culprit. I will wait for few more days to see if the action has taken place.
Otherwise you compelled me to do something I don’t want to do. I am sure you care your blog. You are smart enough to understand.
You can delete my account but I can open another one. I don’t think you want to do this. I tell you what I could do, copy and paste all the junk on your blog. People won’t even know where their comments are posted.
It’s all in your hand or the guy who has my name “white”.
Haha there is just nothing sadder than someone who enjoys Majority status playing the victim. And that’s you white, to a T. Your sense of entitlement and demands are outrageous when in a 300 comments posted, you are the author of half that, beating few dead horses over and over til blood starts seeping out of my every orifice. I even asked you few times to spare me but you don’t like to listen, and why should you? You are the bully Majority.
White, why dont you go to Tibetsun and comment there? I’m sure the anal retentive admin there will love you.
Anyway, fuck you white, whinny little bitch. You and that other idiot deserve each other. I am usually tolerant person but fuck it, just this time, let me act like the Umaylam Majority and happily help get white banned. (Prayer services after)
Jamyang-la,
You don’t understand what fundamentalist like I can do. We are the chip from the same block who wanted to skin you when you were TIPA director. We are also the same people who wrote to Japanese University to fire Khangar Tsultrim Kalsang for his (un) scholarly writing criticizing “our” core belief. We are also the same people who got you out of RFA talk shows. We want to shut down your blog but this American govt and it’s so call freedom is not helping us.
Are you not scare of me? Do you also want Samten to join me? Don’t you know that White is my legal name and I have both divine right and legal patent? Don’t you see the symbol (C) ? Don’t you know what it means?
The replies by EC to the Tibet-express interview made me think of the dialectical method popular with the ancient Greeks, Hegel and Tibetan Buddhism, and such… I was just reading Marx again few days back, and in his correspondence to Engels, wrote, “It’s possible that I shall make an ass of myself. But in that case one can always get out of it with a little dialectic. I have, of course, so worded my proposition as to be right either way.”
FF 2015 Tibetan Buddhist slash Political dialectics ala Skillful Means.
“AEC (Assistant Election Commissioner, Geshe Tenpa Tashi): If describing such acts as violation in the electoral rules and regulations of the Tibetan charter is democratic, then the nullification of such votes is also in accordance with democracy.” And, “Since the candidate is exercising his right to freedom of expression, it is hard for us to recognize it as an outright violation of electoral rules. Therefore, we are unable to point it out as a violation of electoral rules.”
Not finally, its all like this, but do read the full text, i’ve only quote mined …….finally, this, this ahem, ‘synthesis’ takes the proverbial cake..
“EC : If a person specifically mentions an individual’s name and states that the Tibetan people should not vote for that candidate, it is another issue altogether. But if a person does not take a specific candidate’s name and makes general statements such as ‘do not vote for those who defame or vilify His Holiness’ and labels such acts as meaning something, it should be treated as a general opinion. Further, it cannot be said with certainty such incidents will happen in the future.”
Worth repeating for its sheer shameless absurdity. “Further, it cannot be said with certainty such incidents will happen in the future.” Ofcourse, there is no certainty, that in the future, someone standing for these elections will be labelled anti-Dalai Lama.
Yet, maybe premature sarcasm on my part. I must doubt. If the world was honest, the logic would be that the guy who was picked by our honest Buddhist leaders in Dharsa to an Election Commissioner’s post, you could think that man must be, above all, honest, that that person comes equipped with a above average degree of integrity, and maybe as a bonus, he is an expert in the workings of genuine democracy?
The other side of the equation is cynical akin to the irascible Diogenes carrying a lighted lamp in the middle of the day, walking the length and breath of Holy Dharamsala looking for an honest man.
http://tibetexpress.net/news/cannot-implement-all-recommendations-tibetan-election-commissiontibetan-election-commission-says-cannot-implement-all-recommendations-2/
@ 21 Samten
I appreciate what you said about democracy being vibrant and Ama Jetsun la sharing her side of the story and all that. But she being a Yabshi family, one who all her life enjoyed power and prestige and commanded respect from all.
Does she really need to stoop to that level? Why can’t she be more accommodating and inclusive of all Tibetan as her children no matter what their political inclinations and beliefs? Why get so petty and take it so personally? Thats what i don’t understand. Maybe i overestimate people. I don’t know.
I would like to offer my condolences to the government and people of France. I offer my prayers. Coward terrorists will never be able to weaken this great nation that believes in ” equality, fraternity and freedom” of all its citizen.
I condemn all the fundamentalists in every religion.
More than ten years back, TCV ‘s text book research committee were trying to reproduce ” The History Of Tibet” a hard cover school student level book that was published earlier.
The committee was told to submit the final proof to Jetsun Pema and get it approved. The committee faithfully copied everything as in the original book and keep submitting to Jetsun Pema for approval and every time she kept rejecting it. Not able to figure, what is wrong with the draft, finally one staff mustered enough courage to ask her about what is wrong with the draft. He was told to find it himself. They left no stone unturned to find for any mistake but we’re still not able to figure it.
Finally some one close to her, helped out and sought of whispered to the committee to take out the tribute paid in the preface to Taring Amala. This done, the draft was presented to Ama Jetsun Pema and she had no issue for approving it for publication. The fact was Ama Jetsun Pema could not stomach anyone praising Ama Taring la, who was her senior in age and wisdom.
This is also a part of our exile history. Many people on the committee know about this fact and then there are plenty of other interesting thing like this. Jai Ho, Amala.
Jamyang la
When are you going to complain against people of Tibet for not voting for Lukar Jam? It is Election Commissioner Job to make rules. People just did not vote for Lukar Jam to meet 20% rule. You can’t blame the rules. In fact 20% rule was announced before they even know the result. You guys have been claiming that majority of Tibetan people support Rangzen so what happened? Even 25% of population would be enough for Lukar Jam to go to the next around. This article won’t be necessary.
You are right Lukar Jam has been target of many people including myself. Only reason I attacked Lukar Jam is because of his attitude towards our beloved leader, His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Okay, Lukar Jam could have talked about Rangzen day and night and dismissed Umai Lam day and night; I wouldn’t have had slightest problem. Of course I have to ask him about his agenda and vision and tactical plan to achieve Rangzen.
Some Shugden obsessed person calling himself While posted a long and irrelevant comment having nothing to do with the topic on hand and all about Shugden. This has been removed. Please try and stick to the general topic being discussed.
amen to#33. Prayers for Paris!
Btw I can guarantee that there will be no changes to the EC stand based on their comments and actions. jamyang norbu, I want to thank you for deleting the unnecessary comments of people with certain agendas to divert us from the topic concerned. But I would like to see and hear from these discussions about steps for today and tomorrow instead of talking and reminiscing yesterday only. What are our options? How can EC be held accountable to maintain a higher standard. What are the steps to stop this mob mentality? in a free democratic govt. the judicial system would be utilized for civil and criminal actions against schools and religious institutions if their treatment is not equal as was the case with Lukar jam in south India and other parts. Due to this his message could not be reached to many of the voting citizens of the exile govt. but CTA always has the same gessa peeeta answer that they have no jurisdiction when it suits them. Now if Lukar shared the podium then there is the danger of showing the wide seperation between dependent and handicapped individuals and a strong willed freedom fighter. EC will never change their stand. How can we change this unequal temperament of CTA?
#angrytibguy#
I never said Jetsun Pema is/was perfect in every way she do. And all of us are not. And there is not much use digging the old story to accommodate one’s personal agenda, if you don’t possess the necessary truth and equipment to fight for it.
And this Wh1te (who use number 1 as his nomenclature), stop dragging my name as I am not the one to easily get fooled by your empty pride and words.
Original White,don’t spread lies. If it is EC’s job to make rules, then why does it feels the need to consult Kashag to decide which is a “recognized organization”/and which is not. Where is the 20% rule in printed and published on any official publication. Just announcing on the day the votes are being counted doesnt make it right.These rules should have been announced clearly right from the start. As for how many votes Lukar received, why should we believe in EC’s count, given the way it has behaved so far. EC has lost its credibility and it is none other than EC’s fault.
White 30
Hey you don’t have to delete his blog even if you can. Create your own blog and try to enlighten others with what better you have. That is what people need. Can you do it?
Sick grudges, filthy comments…..all are sick of it.
White is a special appointee here of GP or self appointed envoy. I have a feeling that he is showing of his “White” posts to his “bosses” as a proof for how much, he is fighting for ” this important cause” on that “trouble maker” JN ‘s blog against increasing number of ” misguided youths” like Shakespearan Fan, led astray by JN.
He may not be getting monetary benefits, but law of increasing return in the form of some benefit is working for him; which is an ample proof of his mindless posting on Shugden and Lukar Jam. He is so consumed in this jihad that he started believing that he has the copy right over the word White – which is in fact, a convenient mask that he is wearing.
Who is his boss? Samdhong Rinpoche? Ngari Rinpoche?
JN :
I will give you a scenario of how scary this scenario of having only two candidates is.In India, during the height of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi ‘s power, whenever there was election, they were plenty of Ram and Shyam standing as Independent candidates against her. They know, they have zero chance of ever getting elected. But they know that under the election law, if something happens to them the election gets nullified and Indira Gandhi can’t get elected. It is same with other candidates. But who cares, what happens with other minor candidates. Here they were talking about THE Indira Gandhi. Even if her party wins but, if her election gets nullified, then how can she become the Prime Minister? So the election commissioner has to provide high level security to every day Ram and Shyam, who were nobody before he stood as Independent and will be nobody once the election is over, but during the election period, he becomes very important person( in order to ensure that Indira Gandhi gets elected). So, many people just for the taste of that VVIP culture or self importance would stand against her.
Now long story short, what happens if something happen to one of the two Sikyong candidates right before elections like heart attack or car accident etc. Is there a provision in the EC rules? Won’t it be better to have a third candidate? Last time they allowed Kasur Tashi Wangdi. Why not this time? Because they read, Semo Kunshok is not happy?
I know people many will jump in to say US often has only two candidates. But they have well established rules. Do we have? Won’t we need one? Sorry for too much Shugden. Let us stay on the topic.
Sorry I meant Original White for my name
i did not post comments #42 and 43
This culprit won’t live me alone. Apparently he is scared of me. I am no match for this culprit.
it is only his holiness who can, and should reign in this elections fiasco for the tibetan diaspora is in no position to accept the responsibility of respecting the basics of democracy that was bestowed by himself.
jamyang la has exposed not only the election commission, the cta and jestun pema and, and even his holiness’ direct pressure on the common tibetan.
Jamyang la
What is going on? I just posted a comment and it says waiting for moderation and than disappeared. Again this culprit is keep using my name intead of his own. I changed my name White to Original White just to avoid confusion but than again this culprit come up with my new name, Original White.
This culprit thinks he is doing something genius. Anybody is capable of doing such stupidity.
I don’t want to make your blog victim of this culprit ‘s stupidity. One thing for sure I won’t let this culprit win.
My names do not really matter. The thing that really matter is my messages. This culprit can not imitate my message, can you?
Jamyang la,
You should know that my message is, Lukar Jam is a traitor. A person without any ‘achievement’ as Semo Kusho says. His political imprisonment means nothing because his demand is FREE Tibet. I refuse to accept anyone who demand anything more than Umae Lam.
Also, you should know that as a true follower of His Holiness I respect the followers of all the religion and religion is a individual choice and freedom. But to me, Shiugden followers are not entitled to this freedom. Can other Original White imitate this crazy, shameless message. I am also here to create diversionary tactic so the real people do not get to talk real stuff.
#48 “Original White. You are free to comment and argue on this post but if you post entire CTA Middle Way statements here I will immediately remove it. If you feel so strongly about it then write an article under your own name and submit it to any journal. This comment section is for discussion not for propagandizing.
Jamyang la
Until you stop this culprit, your blog will have a lots junk to remove. Anyway who is discussing here? Nobody. I don’t call this discussion. People here talk like bunch of thugs on the street. It is a disgrace to the term Rangzen come out of these people’s mouth.
I posted Umai lam article just to push this culprits post away. Umai Lam does require propaganda. Unless you fixed this culprit, you have lots of extra work to do. Don’t blame me, I tried my best to hold my composure.
I meant does not require
This culprit is using my name deliberately to instigate among the people. If he is a Chinese agent, he accomplished his mission. This culprit is disrupting your blog.
I did not post comment #48. The culprit posted this one.
Whether we like it not, whether it is right or wrong, vast majority of Tibetan population take religion (Buddhism) and His Holiness the Dalai Lama very seriously in their life. People like Lukar Jam must and need to understand what citizen’s value. Lukar Jam failed to understand what Tibetan people value.
@ 54 White
His Holiness always says that mere reciting some mantra and doing some ritual stuff while better than nothing its hardly the essence of Buddhism. Lukar Jam is someone who is following that example by being authentic and following his heart and aligning himself with his higher Self. Not doing the external ritual stuff but being guided by his inner calling for a higher purpose of service to the tibetan people and nation. Its your so called majority of tiibetan people who failed to understand his heartfelt motivation.
Original white, it’s ur opinion that matters, from now on dont use the name white/ originalwhite/mynameiswhite/iamwhite just use some other name and dont disclose ur identity ( nga white nguney di yin labgo mare ). Goodluck. Imposter white la you are lemey no.1
Just read “Opening of the Political Eye” written back in 1990 by JN, and what a depressing read. A hard pill to swallow with the state of affairs. Which, no doubt, goes doubly for the author.
Don’t get me wrong, there were some good parts, suggestions, recommendations. But, for the most, i felt the material was suicide inducing. And we all know how much famous writers in history love to feel depressed and suicidal. Which, I guess, goes to show, truth don’t always set you free, sometimes truth can actually make you kill yourself.
Looks as if nothing had changed over the years ‘cept the make-up. If the government and the majority, while even in exile, both feel democracy is only a means, merely a tool, and not an end in itself; what makes anyone believe, in a FreeTibet setting, that we would want, or ever get, genuine Democracy? Anyone who fights for it would be seen as a traitor to our beloved feudal tradition.
It’s a scary thought that we may actually be genetically predisposed toward peasantry.
Good read thanks be to JN. I’ll post the link for anyone interested…
http://www.rangzen.net/1990/11/30/opening-of-the-political-eye/
We can talk about stuff endlessly, my stuff is better than yours and I am right you are wrong, and my favorite one is to blamie for somebody else when outcome is not desired one. End of the day, mass population has to decide what they want, otherwise we just spin around and never be able to move forward. In American politics, once the party is defeated, they talk about what went wrong from their side instead of blaming the other party.
Election Commission is a department not a person. This department is responsible for ensuring best possible outcome of the election process. They can make any rules and regulations anytime based on their outlined decipline. Voting result of Lukar Jam has nothing to do with EC. If Lukar Jam is disqualified to move to the next round because of the 20% rule that is because enough people did not vote for him. Now you should ask why enough people did not vote for Lukar Jam instead of complaining against the rule. I tell you what I think. Lukar Jam did not inspire enough people with his policies, vision and tactical plan to achieve his goal. People are disappointed because of Lukar Jams attitude towards our beloved leader and CTA. People do not want change for nothing. They want change that will move them forward not backward. People want to feel respected. People want to feel the candidates understand their values, priorities and what is important for them. Voting result for Lukar Jam is the reflection of what has failed from his side.
Deep down I believe Lukar Jam could have much better job with Rangzen agenda if he has shown little bit of respect to His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
I am a middle age person. I have previously voted for Lobsang San-GAY, thinking that he is a gay.Just kidding. Many of the disrobed monks like to think like this.
Joke aside, my vote is for Change – generational change.
When I cast my vote and when I told others to vote for LS, my agrument was that both Tethong and Tashi Wangdi la had their opportunities to make the best of their contributions. Both of them are exceptionally good human being and very dedicated officials, who always have best of Tibetan nation in their hearts. I can attest to this fact from my personal experience because I have served under both of them.
I thought LS will take the struggle forward with new drive and energy. It DID NOT occur even in my dreams that he will turn out to be MANCHURIAN candidate and nail our struggle with his “we do not challenge Chinese Communist and are willing to accept Communist party rule! ” I know that few votes of my family and mine will not change the result,but the regret I have over that vote is one of the greatest misjudgment I have ever made in my, otherwise fruitful and rather exciting life I had so far.
I am a person who is still for Change. I always believe Change is good. During the primary, I and my family, and many of our friends voted for Lukar Jam. I do not believe even a slightest bit that people like Lukar Jam, JN and other patriots are anti- Dalai Lama. People like them who love Tibetan nation this much,can never hate His Holiness the Dalai Lama. When I voted for Lukar Jam, I know in the depth of my heart he has a chance zero against establishment candidate like LS and Penpa Tsering. But it is important to vote for Lukar Jam. He brings lot to the table and I DREAMT of how he could become Vaclav Havel of Tibet.
But as we know, people who want to sleep with China ( but ironically accuses Rangzen advocate as suspected Chinese agents) with their barrage of mischaracterization were able to ‘write in ‘ the result the wanted.
Now in the finals, if we were left to choose between Penpa Tsering and LS, I and my family will vote for Penpa Tsering. My logic is same: LS has his chance. Now let us try Penpa Tsering. In the primaries Penpa won hands down in Gangchen Kyishong and Washington D.C. This result conveys a very important message. Gangchen Kyishong and Washington D.C , one can confidently say is the two places in Tibetan world where we have highest concentration of politically conscious Tibetans because of the nature of their work. Gangchen Kyishong is the nerve center of Exile government and Washington, D.C. Tibetans are mostly journos workings for two important Tibetan media.
The message of the politically conscious Tibetans are clear: SORRY, WE DO NOT TRUST Lobsang Sangay. Masses may not see the readings on the wall and that is the tragedy of Tibet and that is the singular reason, why people like my name sake “White” are here on blog like this to make sure majority do not see and hear the right stuff. Will they win? Might. Will it serve Tibet’s future? Not in million years!
“I and my family will vote for Penpa Tsering. My logic is same: LS has his chance. Now let us try Penpa Tsering.”
Of course you can vote for anyone you want but I am just curious how you suppose Penpa Tsering will bring “change”? Seems he is more conservative than Lobsang Sangay, and a creature of GP to boot.
Penpa Tsering has brought nothing to the table thus far in these elections other than spearheading the anti-Dalai Lama attack against Lukar Jam. Seems to me that Penpa Tsering is the lamest of the Umay lam. A crow who dressed up in peacock feathers. Even Umay lam candidates Tashi Wangdu la and Tashi Topgyal la both had some good talking points and had some substance.
Would a Sikyong Penpa Tsering have honored Prof. Dawa Norbu like Dr. Sangay did? Would a Sikyong Penpa Tsering respect democracy? Freedom of speech? Encourage children to love knowledge? None of these things Penpa Tsering la is liable to excel in if his past is any indication.
It could easily be argued that Lobsang Sangay brought little change, yet even a little change is better than same ole Penpa Tsering types, no?
@59
Dear my shadow
You could be a middle age men but your behavior indicate an immature 12 year boy.
Both of you act your age and not your dick size.
Yeah White @ 59 I still think you should vote for LS. As Dream says, he has brought little change. Do you want me to list some, I will do it when it comes closer to election. But you should know Lukar Jam is the worse and then Shugden. You are trying to undermine me by assuming my identity. I don’t care. I urge all others for at least few days assume my name and then write. You want to try? Come on, try me. Don’t you know I am bully. I will junk this blog some more, if I have not done enough. I do not know about you but for me this blog is my jihad and I am a holy warrior.
Dream: you are a well meaning person ( for Tibet, I mean) you should do at least three things:
1. Read Tendor’s description of Penpa Tsering in his article in support of Lukar Jam’s candidacy. It is rather more correct profile than one you describe.
2. Get little closer to LS and analyze him.
3. Talk to people who endorsed him previously about their feelings now. These are people “used” by him. One time his friend and advocates.
4. Ask for reasons from the people who say they support Tsoktso Penpa Tsering. Ask them what good they see in him?
BTW, I am third White here and am supporting Second White to tame the crazy original White.
“1. Read Tendor’s description of Penpa Tsering in his article in support of Lukar Jam’s candidacy. It is rather more correct profile than one you describe.”
You mean, when Tendor la wrote this about Penpa Tsering?
“At first this undemocratic statement shocked me, because the word on the street is that Penpa la is usually considered far more liberal than most of the Dharamsala politicians. But under closer analysis, I began to suspect that this was partly a calculated move by the Speaker to avoid having to engage with a formidable debater, and partly a premeditated soundbite aimed at appealing to the masses of faith-driven voters.”
https://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/articles/anexilewithinexilethespecteroflukarjam
“4. Ask for reasons from the people who say they support Tsoktso Penpa Tsering. Ask them what good they see in him?”
Excuse me but I am asking you since you brought up the topic of voting for Penpa Tsering la. I admit, I might be wrong about the man, so if you can, help me to understand. I think I have, with what limited knowledge I have, sincerely “analyzed” Dr. Sangay’s speech and actions. Which is why I never voted for him in the last election. So, if we can, for a time, spare the Lobsang Sangay is bad therefore Penpa Tsering is good, kind of childish rationality.
May it please you to speak only of his (Penpa Tsering’s) good now and not brush me off?
I haven’t heard of any incidence involving mob violence towards Lukar Jam or his supporters during the election process. The most I’ve seen is the defaced election posters of Lukar. Jamyang, why are you stirring the pot unnecessarily by alluding time and again on the “POSSIBILITY” of mob violence. What an a-hole you are!.
People of Tibet send strong message to man like Lukar Jam. THey put him in a place sort of speaking.
Enough please. Do not try to instigate quarrel in Tibetan community any more. All that you are writing is rubbishes and baseless. Indian election that you or we are acquainted with? Poll rigging, vote buying, proxy voting, ballot stuffing and booth capturing. I am afraid that’s what you see or fabricate how Indian election works but for us, it is an unprecedented, marvelous and out of this world ! Don’t you know whole world was praising Indian election the last time during which the BJP came out victorious? You need to be realistic and stop maneuvering things for your personal interest that you have been doing until now. Tibetan election commision is very much logical to limit final candidates to two if the third trailing candidate didn’t make certain percentage of votes. It was never to exclude anybody! whats the point to contest an election if one don’t even gets fair share of votes? It is going to be waste of time and energy to include the third candidate for the final round if one didn’t fulfill the criteria the EC established. That’s rule if truly viable and legitimate. Please I stress again, don’t instigate problems in Tibetan community for your own personal interest.
66 dithering fart. J did not say any mob violence to Lukar Jam during election process. He said only after Dala Lama speech that chamcha a hole lickers like you are trying to create possible mob vionce. Fart of.
Rangzen is already far beyond fetch. The man like Lukar Jam and few sociopath people here on this blog make image of Rangzen impure and confusing. It is unfortunate.
Tibetan Youth Congress have been known for their Rangzen Agenda for many decades. It has been very powerful organization even China had to notice every now and then. The organization is highly respected around the world by citizens of Tibet even though recently organization experienced little bit of dent for whatever reason. TYC always have focused on their agenda with unquestionable respect to His Holiness. The organization have bee promoting their agenda without attackng anybody within. China always have been their target. I always wish and support such an organization for their success because I believe such an organization strengthens our struggle against our enemy. No Tibetans have ill feeling towards this organization because they have Rangzen agenda even in the middle of full swing MWA.
So any claim that people like I have no respect to Rangzen advocates is not supported by good reason or any logic. Lukar Jam criticizing Dalai Lama and CTA is democracy and my criticism against Lukar Jam is some sort of unacceptable. How fair is that?
Many messages here, including the messages from the host of this blog indicate that I am unwelcome in this blog to dispute their view of Rangzen and their political candidate. On the other hand these same people talk about democracy, open minded, free thinker, educated and so on. Where is the logic?
Hurray! Rangzen is already far beyond fetch.!
1.2 millions Tibetans died. Who cares?
6000 historic monasteries built and patronized by our forefathers destroyed. Means nothing to traitors like me!
People like Lukar Jam, Tanak Jigme Sangpo, Lobsang Tenzin went to prison refusing to accept China’s rule. Too bad. They are real looser. We smart ones prefer to sleep with China! Call me political prostitute. Who cares! I hate my nation and my people. I love Chinese yuan and for silver dollars. my White asshole parents sold Tibet and I will do again. I am White. I am traitor. I will Divide Tibet again and again. Jai Ho.
Firstly, i do not agree with Norbu la’s accusations.
Secondly, whatever it be, the masses has spoken, loud and clear, in election fair and undisturbed that middle way is what they will choose and with it buried for once and all, the claims that the middle way policy is a CTA and Dalai lama’s invention not truely reflecting the peoples opinion. The popular mandat for the middleway policy is loud and unmistakebly clear, even for someone who would deliberaty not choose to see or hear it.
Thirdly, Jamyang la’s claim that the reason why the EC has done what they did is to prevent an open debate between the two ideological camps ( which he chooses to think will be won by Lukar la’s intellectual, oratory and personality superiority !!! ) is absurd given the fact the all the debating have been already done during the preliminary elections and on which the people have spoken loud and clear, or is it that Lukar la has been too busy communicating something else other than that.
Fourthly and mostly importantly, as someone above mentioned, as lukar has right to his opinion so does others have right to their opinions. Please do not confound and make differences of opinion into episodes of witch hunting. It sends out wrong and false messages.
I sincerely wish Jamyang la would write more to encourage and celebrate this democracy ( albeit in its infancy ) instead of always berating and discouraging. I was a fan but sincerely its getting tiresome, of all the articles you have written, almost 80 percent of them are targeted at His Holiness and the CTA. Helllllllooowww, there is someone bigger out there on whom you can focus your talent. Do not waste it. A sincere and heartfelt request.
I do believe Majority has spoken, but I don’t believe, that, therefore, minorities should keep silent, or else how is this different from the methods of CCP?
“I sincerely wish Jamyang la would write more to encourage and celebrate this democracy ( albeit in its infancy)”
We just celebrated 55th year of Tibetan Democracy, yet, its still at its infancy? Why is that?
The problem is not about majority and minority. the problem is about an equal footing to reach out to all the people through one common stage. If it’s based on majority then China has 1 Billion people so we’ll never achieve Tibetan freedom if we had to vote on that aspect. In democracy, people forget that minorities do have a say that’s why we have women’s rights, Schedule Tribe/Caste, etc. If it was completely based on Majority only, then it would basically be the law of the jungle.
The majority has spoken, so why the heck is EC and CTA so worried to have the third speaker join them on the podium based upon the creation of this new rule right after people had already voted. If the Middle way is so great and good, then there should be no reason to fear that an equal footing and debate between the three or four speakers should change the majority’s voting?
We, the people, minority and majority and in between, have the right to observe and witness the speakers present their case, discuss and debate on an equal platform? If EC and CTA wants to showcase to the world that they are a true democracy in the making, then such rules would not have been created hastily.
Jamyang Norbu, carry on with your skillful writing and creating somewhat of a check and balance in this so called pseudo democratic tyranny and reminding us of the bigger goal that is Rangzen.
Do not listen to this culprit who has been stealing people’s name to disrupt our debate.
We can get Rangzen without Dalai lama, without CTA, without monks and nuns, without Lamas, without Shichaa walas, all we need is few college passerby Tibetans.
Yes we can do it. We have to disregard our traditional believes and culture and adopt more like that of Chinese. Who cares if most young generations do not speak and write Tibetan. Believing in Buddhism and Dalai Lama holds us back from developing just like Mao said. So we must attack those people who support Dalai Lama.
Unlike Lukar Jam, many educated people serving Tibetans in CTA are building their own career and make money more than we could earn here in the West. Lobsang Sangye is better off working in CTA than working in Harvard.
Who cares if majority of Tibetan want something else. Who cares if nobody in this world support our Rangzen Agenda. Who cares if we have zero recourses to sustain our struggle for enerations to come.
One day we can reinstate our sovereign nation, Tibet without even talking to China. Take my word for it. One day United Nation will wake up and realize Tibet is not part of China and then say sorry our uncle Sam wants you.
Right now we need to build true democracy like that of India and US. Who cares if we are in exile and our citizens are all over the world. We should not be impressed by having enough drinking water in the middle of desert but swimming pool right next to the ocean. China will go away it self. What we need to worry about is our own leaders and constantly attack them. This should be our tactical plan for achieving Rangzen. Lukar Jam has done just that. Jamyang Norbu la has done just that.
Long live Tibet!
# 72
I wholeheartedly agree with you. “Aap ne mere moo kyi baat cheen lee”. Deep down I have huge disappointment that the man like Jamyang La, the man of his caliber is not serving in the CTA. Jamyang La could be paramount contributor to many aspects as he already did in the past. I really don’t understand why he is misusing his talent.
74
ཨ་མའི་བུ་ལ་ཡོན་ཏན་ཡོད་ན་
དགའ་ལྡན་ཁྲི་ལ་བདག་པོ་མེད་
This one explains equal footing.
77 Based on your saying, India and other developing countries should not be losing out on all the brains and great scientists to US?
Jamyang la:
As always, another great article on a very important issue for us. I occasionally come here to see whether you have new article. Your collection of writings here will serve generation of Tibetans and others to do research on Tibetan issue.
As regard to quality of debate on this site, occasionally there are some good postings but mostly it is hijacked by real fanatics.
My main purpose of writing here is I have request for you. Can you write an article on living family members of 13th Dalai Lama? When I listened to Semo Kushok Jetsun Pema, I see a fear in her eyes and voice that she is bothered by lost of power, position and prestige of current Yabshis. The best way to understand their future is to know what happened to previous Yabshis family. I refuse to join in this fratricidal discussion with fanatics on this discussion and hope to read an article on family members of previous Yabshis some day. Thank You. – Abu Tenpa Dorjee.
@77 Who gets more respect 5 yr old reincarnate lama or 50 yr old erudite Geshe. We all know that.
http://www.sikyong2016.com/paradox-of-10-accomplishments-of-sikyong-lobsang-sangay
No matter who is talking, as long as the person is in support of His Holiness the Dalai Lama is wrong and bad. Now people here started attacking Semo Kushoe as well due to her recent opposing speech against Lukar Jam cohorts. Ultimately the attack is against His Holiness.
Fortunately these handful of people have no room within our community. They have two options, join ISIS or join China. They will get full support in their quest.
Discussion on middle way approach versus independence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ymxX8Uh9U
ཨ་མའི་བུ་ལ་ཡོན་ཏན་ཡོད་ན་ if one has qualification/then anyone can ascend the throne of
དགའ་ལྡན་ཁྲི་ལ་བདག་པོ་མེད་. Gaden Tripa( the highest position in Gelug tradition)
བོད་ལ་བདེ་སྐྱིད་བྱུང་ན།. If Tibet enjoys happiness/ people would care less, even if nun is
རྒྱལ་པོ་ཨ་ནི་བྱས་ཀྱང་འགྲིག། enthroned as king( of Tibet)
But the question is: Who chooses Gaden Tripa? What politics is involved? Is there a case of superceding? I don’t know. But as any human institution, there certainly must be politics involved? At least, I know some lama who chose not to put forth their names in candidacy. But I really don’t know much to comment anything worthwhile.
With nun can be king, I think the nun has to be born into the “right” family. Not any nun. It is not to imply that Tibetan institutions are corrupt. It is a fact in any parts of the world that only well connected gets to position of power. But my message is picture of Tibetan society, where talent is recognized and has a place of honor is just not true.
Long before Lobsang Sangay became Sikyong, LS courted both His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Samdhong Rinpoche. They in turned “thought” found the composite of the young, modern, yet indebted, grateful, tradition bound leader that exile Tibetans need. So, each of us can theorized our own conclusion of who gained what in this who used who? game. My deduction is LS did not loose.
My question is, just imagine for a while, Semo Kusho is the same person with same contribution but she is not the sister of His Holiness the Dalai Lama but younger sister of late Kasur Juchen Thupten. Will she say the same thing that she said in the speech in YouTube right before election? What would be the contend of her speech, if ever she gets to give one? Thoughts like this make me wonder why there is desperation and where is it coming from. For the soul of Tibet? If it is for the soul of Tibet, then our leadership should think about Tibet beyond 113 years old of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s life. For that to happen, true rule based democracy has to take root. Taking root means not uprooting it!
@82 Last paragraph on your post 82 indicate that you have no idea about Middlepath and Rangzen.
As per my very limited knowledge that I have “Middleapath” entails living with or under Chinese and Rangzen means kicking the Chinese ass off Tibet.
82. Your mentality:
Rangzen= hate His Holiness? Family?
Rangzen=love China? ISIS? terrorist?
Umaylam???
I am not opinionating or assuming. I said what I see in this blog.
Few drift away people in this blog does not represent Rangzen.
Individual, who stands alone, is more often “right” than the mass of people, who are ignorant and sheeplike – Henrik Johan Ibsen.
Tibetan intellectuals: Please do not discourage. Keep contributing to awake the masses.
Kunchok la:
I think JN and others on this block should know that there is someone from Gaden Podrang on assignment. We all know who that poster is from the quality of his post. It is too bad that GP can’t find a better person.
One poster really exposed him that in desperation, he has to come and throw temper tantrum to the extend of trashing JN blog. Look at the quality of the people, does this bode well?
I have plenty to write but as true Rangzen advocate, I am withholding tons of stuff because, like we have envoy from GP ( for whom it is good to hear what many of us say) but there are also agents reading on this blog from several different countries.
བསྟོད་མི་བཤད་མཁན་ཞིག་གིས་བསྟོད་པ་ལས།
དམའ་མི་ཤེས་མཁན་ཞིག་གིས་དམའ་ན་དགའ།
It is better to be criticized by someone,who really do not how to criticize/ than to be praised by someone, who really do no know how to praise ( you) – in this context GP and Umae Lam. The poster we all know here is either a WELL TRAINED Chinese spy or foolish supporter. I keep thinking he is former than the latter. I may be totally wrong. But my logic is :
1) He is purposely INSTIGATING people to come out with more trash to attack His Holiness and his family. ( Who benefits ? Free research material for Chinese propaganda machine? )
2) He never ceases to ask Rangzen folks, what is your STRATEGY? Who ask this type of question?
JN should as a test should make a note of his IP address and screen it through his local FBI office in Tennessee. Then we will know his true colors.
Too bad if you don’t like your own smell. I simply introduced true identity of few people in this blog.
You said, “He is purposely INSTIGATING people to come out with more trash to attack His Holiness and his family” Can you read this again and think what you just wrote? If I am wrong, I make you defend His Holiness not attack. And does defending His Holiness the Dalai Lama make me Chinese agent? That’s utterly an awkward to say the least.
That said, you guys are not my enemy. China is my enemy. For whatever reason, you guys just end up at the wrong corner.
You can cook anything you like in your head but I do what I do because I am a simply responsible Tibetan. I can not stand by when once own people help Chinese to prove their propaganda towards Dalai Lama.
OK ultimatum, if you can come up with some genuine appreciation words toward His Holiness at least this will clear you from my list.
I need a help from you. Want to find out how an Identity Certificate can be surrendered for a tibetan with refugee status in India. He want to apply for an Indian passport, to be used for a well paying job abroad. Please mail me at vinner@live.com
We have been discussing on election and now we are derailing our topic.
As per my research on exile Tibetan population today, there are around 180,000 and only 30 % have voted so far . Many are below age 18, but many more are barred from voting right due to silly requirements set up by our EC in Dharamsala. Almost all Shugden followers have not voted, all Karmapa Thaye Rinpoche followers have abstained, Dromo Geshe(from NY) Rinpoche’s followers too have not voted and Trijang Rinpoche’s followers have not, Geshe Kalasang Gyatso’s followers followers have not voted. We are pretty much fragmented due to our leader.
1948, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights exhorted that “everyone has the right to take part in the government”, that “the will of the people is the basis of the authority of government” and that “this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections.”
I think EC should drop off our voting requirements at this critical juncture and unite our people to fight agsinst China.
Check out the artwork of comrades Ping and Pong. Penpa Tsering looks like Kim Jong-idiot.
Quite good really, whoever did it.. Picture worth 1000 words in praise of it, if I had the time.
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12193298_900756800014478_6648784275695489837_n.jpg?oh=63992a102fadd998774b30656564e427&oe=56F5223C
Sounds disgusting!
@93
In your opinion, what is the simplest way to prove somebody is a Tibetan at the polling station? Why do you think all the people you listed did not bother obtaining Green Book in the first place?
Didn’t Samdhong Rinpoche only came forward to pay this Rangzen Lhadeb dues in lump sum only when he saw a opening of him becoming the speaker of the parliament. It is a verifiable fact. I would like Samdhong Rinpoche’s supporters to come forward and challenge this fact. JN should make note of this fact. This information was highlighted by late Gen Go-ser.
Lesson of Time: KARMA
When a bird is alive, it eats ants.
When the bird is dead, ants eat the bird.
Time and circumstances can change at any time. Don’t devalue or hurt anyone in life. You may be powerful today. But remember, time is more powerful than you!
One tree makes a million match sticks. Only one match stick is needed to burn a million trees.
Copied from an image,I found on web.
96 FYI there is a difference between having a green book and not paying the yearly payments. I think most tibs do have a green book but payments might not have been made depending upon individual circumstances. votes are not taken from tax paying citizens only. it is based on whether you are a citizen or not?? this was an issue brought out to EC by the independent commission as well.
Then again Exile govt is not run like a govt but like a kyiduk or ngo…..
Every Tibetan should be able to vote but issue is ID card I believe. Any voter around the world must have government issued ID. Otherwise how would you identify somebody as Tibetan at the polling station?
Why CTA is not run like a government? Do you need to see a defense minister?
http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/11/22/trump-im-leading-because-politicians-are-incompetent/
How I wish for an app to block stupidoe and his mindless, pea-brain comments. You all know what I mean.
http://onpolitics.usatoday.com/2015/11/18/done-with-donald-enter-the-trump-free-zone/
Sorry I got the wrong link.
After months of dilly-dallying and last-minute back room negotiations the European Union declared that products from the Israeli settlements on the West bank need to be labeled as such the European Union. Products from the Israeli settlements should either read ‘made in Palestine (Israeli settlement)’ or ‘made in an Israeli settlement on the West bank’. Israel is understandably upset about the regulation and the bellicose Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, calls it ‘reminiscent of Europe’s shameful history’.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2015/11/23/made-in-tibet-for-the-european-union/
Exile CTA is a dysfunctional organization when it comes to maintaining records of only 150,000 Tibetans in exile. CTA is just a mirage. All the Gangkyi offices are registered in the name of HH Dalai Lama, like Home Affairs ( Nangsi Laykhung ) of HH Dalai, Education office ( Sherig Laykhung ) of HH Dalai Lama etc. Sooner or later these offices are going to disolve and vanish like rainbow. CTA is doing is nothing to keep our culture, language and religion free from Chinese influence but getting ready to emerge with Chinese autonomous region of Shizang.
“I just wanna watch the world burn!” was the answer given by an anarchist when asked why he supports Donald Trump for presidency.
Abraham Lincoln must be rolling in his grave at what the grand old party, and by extension, American democracy has become. A sideshow. This disturbing rise of the plutocrats and the dumbing down of America to Sarah Palin levels, makes the now deceased Conservative Senator Barry Goldwater looking like a bleeding heart liberal.
Donald Trump lambasted the White House for giving Xi and other CCP diplomats a state dinner, saying the Chinese leaders should be taken to McDonald’s instead. Hahahaha So, maybe, like Bush, whom His Holiness calls friend; Donald Trump might be a better choice, with regards the Tibetan cause than Obama and Hillary Clinton. (I liked Bill Clinton, got his book, well-read intellectual ala Sen. Goldwater)
So disappointed Elizabeth Warren isn’t seeking the Democratic Party nomination. I love this lady ever since she took on the big banks and smacked the smugness out of that degenerate Ben Bernanke. (Wonder if Dr. Sangay’s law class at Harvard had professor Elizabeth Warren in as a guest lecturer? Wonder if he was taught Philosophy by Prof. Hilary Putnam? Sociobiology by EO Wilson? haha, Ok maybe wrong decade. Psychology by Steven Pinker? How cool is that? Lucky privileged bastard!!!)
@105 This is done at Indian government pressure to look like an NGO. Long time ago Sherig Leykhung was called “Council for Tibetan education”. Later it became Deptt of Education of HHDL. Now I am not sure what is the official name being used as HHDL doesn’t hold the office.
བོད་རང་བཙན་རྒྱ་ནག་གིས་འཕྲོགས་ཡིན་པ་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མས་མ་གསུངས་རུང་བོད་མི་མང་གིས་སྔ་མོ་ནས་མཁྱེན་གྱི་ཡོད་པ་རེད། ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མས་བཙན་བྱོལ་སྤྱི་ཚོགས་སུ་རང་བཙན་དང་དབུ་མ་གཉིས་ཀྱི་དབར་འགལ་ཟླ་ཆེ་རུ་མ་བཏང་བར་ཁུ་སིམ་མེར་བསྡད་ན་བོད་མི་མང་གི་བེད་སྐྱིད་ཀྱང་དེ་ཡིན།
དཔེར་ན།
༡)
བོད་རང་བཙན་རྩོད་མཁན་རྒྱ་དམར་དང་དོལ་རྒྱལ་རྗེས་འབྲངས་བ་ལས་ཀྱང་སྡུག་ཟེར་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༢)
བོད་ཀྱི་ཆོས་དང་རིག་གཞུང་མ་བོར་ན་བོད་མི་རིགས་བརླགས་ན་བརླགས་ཟེར་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༣)
གསུམ་བཅུའི་དུས་དྲན་ཉིན་སྐད་འབོད་མ་གནང་ཟེར་ནས་འབོད་སྐུལ་ཞུ་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༤)
ལོ་རྒྱུས་ཐོག་བོད་རང་བཙན་གཙང་མ་ཡིན་པའི་ཁུངས་སྐྱེལ་ཁག་པོ་རེད་ཟེར་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༥་་་བཙན་རང་མ་དངུལ་ལག་དེབ་དང་བླང་དཔྱ་ཁྲལ་ལ་བསྒྱུར་ནས་དབུ་མའི་མ་དངུལ་བཟོ་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༦་་་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་གཞུང་སྒྲིག་འཛུགས་ལ་བསྒྱུར་ནས་ཚོགས་པ་ཆུང་ཆུང་ཞིག་བཟོ་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
༧་་་བཙན་བྱོལ་བོད་མིའི་བཅའ་ཁྲིམས་ནང་དུ་བོད་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་ཅེས་པའི་མིང་ཙམ་ཡང་མེད་པར་བཟོ་མཁན་ཟམ་གདོང་བླ་མ།
Our community, Tibetan diaspora around the world is the most successful exile community in the world. Under the circumstances, nothing could have been better. I am very certain that it will continuously thrive until a well being of people of Tibet is served.
Under similar circumstance, (if there is any) no other societies have accomplished even close what we have in this world. India has been our home country ever since Chinese occupation of Tibet. What kind of legal rights we Tibetans have in India? As an exile guest, we Tibetans are not allowed to own any properties in India. Even travel is restricted. Literally legally we are not allowed to do anything.
I know you guys have bunch of complain against Dalai Lama and CTA and its leaders. Why don’t you guys complain against US, India, Britain and all other countries who say Tibet is part of China?
Donuld Trump has build Trump dynasty. His accomplishment is astonishing and American people see it. What did Lukar Jam accomplished besides rhetoric talk? I know he spent time in Chinese prison but that is not an accomplishment. What make you think that Lukar Jam can do something about Rangzen?
Anybody who think they have better idea or different idea or new idea that will restore our freedom is welcome at CTA and lead us. Simply show us your idea and Tibetan people will choose diamond over rock anytime.
……AND WHITE, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE ROCKS….
@110 We have built swanky marbled monasteries and temple but our regular schools have broken windows.
@110 We have built swanky marbled monasteries and temple but our regular schools have broken windows.
The post I made is copied from discussion on Khabdha. There is a interesting discussion going on over Samdhong Rinpoche’s teaching. One post I pasted here is the opinion of a person by the pseudonym of མངོན་སུམ་སྨྲ་བ་ and the other post is by a very witty poster called ཅོ་རོ་ཉི་མ་
In my rush, I forgot to attribute the sources.
To me Lukar Jam is hero. JN is hero. I will stand behind them for those SINGULAR reason that I CAN NOT STAND people like Whites and Samtens on this blog and in real life.
And I am proud to state that I am more educated in real sense both in modern as well as in tradition sense and with educational opportunities that, now many of our youngsters are getting, I will bet that even the children of Whites and Samtens will find out that the parents like them are HYPOCRITE.
Otherwise, how do you justify one’s willingness to sleep with China and Chinese leaders, ( who called Dalai Lama monsters and what not) but will refuse to debate Lukar Jam for questioning the wisdom of Dalai Lama’s middle path?
When your own children will call you hypocrite, we should all know that we have lost the battle of our own principles. What are you going to do, call him or her Lukar Jam’s or JN’s fan?
ནོར་བུ་ | November
Only fools take pride in themselves knowing that they support Lukar Jam for his stand on Rangzen and his wishful strategy to force the Chinese to come to the negotiating table. Ha! ha! guys, why in the first place Dalai Lama proposed the Middle way policy instead of Rangzen as our exiled govt. stand on Tibet.
And since the majority of the Tibetans supported the middle way policy, it is your duty to give the support rather than pouring out your trash here without any substance in the real sense. And one day if the people of Tibet change their policy, then we will abide by the wishes of the majority. It is as simple as that.
And remember worry about your own children and their education and how they branded you with names.
Samten, you really don’t know that the decades old appeasement approach (Lam Uma)has to have a life span. For over 40 years it has been rotting.
And don’t dare to assume blindly that it was a wish of the Tibetan people. It was imposed in the name of His Holiness with some unsolicited help from outside.
There is no guarantee that Tibet will regain its independence, and the Rangzen advocates are no fools, they too understand it. But they are manning up to accept that every Tibetan has to umbilical link to Tibet right to fight to preserve the struggle for future generations. A historical gift that this generation as no right to give up.
And never ever trade a nation with a an personality of an ideology of sorts. Nothing is more dangerous.
ནོར་བུ་
Do you call your parents and grandparents hypocrites? I am sure their mentality is closer to mine than yours. If you have no respect to your parents, you are the lowest of lowest human being on this earth.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama, CTA and people like I hold no Rangzen. China has our Rangzen. Get it from China if you are a man of all knowing.
I am sure if there is enough division between Rangzen vs Umai Lam among our society we could have had some sort of referendum but Umai Lam is supported by overwhelming majority. Recent election result is the evidence.
It is true that with Umai Lam in the last 30 years had little impact on China in terms of realizing our objective but this can not be the reason why we should not hold Umai Lam as our policy. Remember before Umai Lam Rangzen was our policy for longest time with no fruition.
Umai Lam is chosen because of the dreadful circumstances surrounding our issues not because we Tibetans wish to sleep with China as you portrayed.
What is all this fuss about Rangzen supporters being anti HH and getting all foamy in the mouth? Have we really made any progress: have we not learned anything from our past tangles with the Chinese? If HH the 13th were alive would these same Rangzen detractors support Umay Lam? And what are these same critics doing about all the vile and degrading names that the same Chinese they are cozying up to, hurling at HH the 14th. I personally have not heard any Tibetan getting angry at the Chinese or heard anyone vowing to do something about it: more like a man getting angry at his boss but can’t do anything, except kick the dog in the doorway.
Our friend White passed away last night in his sleep. Cause of his death is not known. Sources quoting his close friend Samten said that his last words were “China is not the enemy, real enemy is Lukar Jam.”
The report says he plead his friends to carry forward his unfinish task of belittling and underming the patriots who went to prison for Tibet’s freedom, and dividing Tibet by creating sectarian strife within Tibetan community.
Los Angeles Times also reports that a consular from Chinese embassy was there to pay tribute for this true son of motherland. But there are also reports of some Tibetans while offering prayers, were privately saying what a wasted life.
What? This is how people will remember me? Come on, now.
ནོར་བུ་
Leave aside your trash talk. Come out with some logic. There are thousands of White and Samten out there for you to challenge. It’s not easy. Tell me what you have done so far for the Rangzen struggle apart from your own selfish ends.
“Thousands of White out there waiting in the wings.” Scary proposition. I imagine hordes of Uruk-hai at the gate.
Remember when Jesus asked the demon, “What is your name?” And old beelzebub said, “My name is Legion, for we are many? Who knew the Devil was belching out White and sulfur each time the fiend ate another innocent soul?
Jokes aside, in life, White did accomplished more than most. Seems he was a military man credited with 26 kills. (Unfortunately his own men; he was a cook who accidentally poisoned them.) After the dishonorable discharge, he went into business and became quite successful that at the time of his death, he had 400 people under him – he was cutting grass at the cemetery.
Thanks Dream. You made my day. Best post I have read in a long time.
It is sad that now it has become fashionable to adore Mao, Xi and love all things Chinese among Tibetans. But we are very critical of fellow Tibetans.
The first big mistake Tibetan made was the assassination of king Lang Dharma. Tibetan historians have wronged the last king of Tibet. The gullible we Tibetans believed that Lang Dharma was kinda devil and possessed horns, and black tongue which was witnessed by female court attendant while braiding king’s hair.
You guys have problems with Lukar Jam being criticized but you guys do not have slightest problem with His Holiness, CTA and our l adders being criticized and then you guys talk about democracy, freedom of speech and open minded. Isn’t it odd to say the least?
What would you do if you are robbed at gun point? Generally people are advised to do everything you are told and not to do anything to frighten the thief. Of course fighting with thief sounds more heroic but this decision is statically proven wrong with deadly consequences. Basic logic behind this is that money can be replaced but not life. Our Tibetan issue is similar to this. China is holding gun on people of Tibet. China can do anything at its will. If this culture assimilation in Tibet continues for another 50 years, you won’t have anybody to talk about even Umai Lam. Once China has complete control over Tibetan people inside Tibet, handful of Tibetans in exile can cry for another thousand years and nobody even notice it. Even after one generation we produced Tibetans like in this blog who want to distant themselves from traditional Tibetans and who want to think like Chinese. We Tibetans have been fighting for our identity that is different from Chinese and China has been making every effort to destroy our Tibetan identity. China is occupying our land but not our spirit. For people like me, Tibetan identity, Tibetan way of thinking, and simply protecting who we are and what we are is more important than having sovereign power over specific geological area. Otherwise what is the point of having a nation of Tibet filled with Chinese alike people.
Let’s go and get Rangzen. Start attacking His Holiness and all his supporters and CTA and it leaders. Let’s appoint Lukar Jam for our leader. He spent years in Chinese prison so that should be good enough to lead us to Rangzen. Who cares what other nations in this world think about Tibet. We don’t need any support. Democracy is a crab so just ignore what majority of people want. Until our demand is not fulfilled keep attacking our own people and that will lead us to Rangzen.
Miss World Canada blocked from contest due to China visa denial
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-3335054/Miss-World-Canada-prevented-reaching-China-pageant.html
Karze
May be Lukar Jam can do something about it.
@126 white
your last sentence
“Otherwise what is the point of having a nation of Tibet filled with chinese alike people”.
Who are the ones who want to be more Chinese-like is debatable. One thing for sure is that for most Rangzen advocates, one of the reason for their desire to have a sovereign nation stems from the fact that they do not want to be like Chinese.
@129 But the fact remains that you even don’t want to give a chance to Lukar. I am sure you believe that one can achieve Buddhahood but not Rangzen although Buddhahood is trillions of times harder than Rangzen.
@129 But the fact remains that you even don’t want to give a chance to Lukar. I am sure you believe that one can achieve Buddhahood but not Rangzen although Buddhahood is trillions of times harder than Rangzen.
Shakespearean fan is a hypocrite. If CTA people earn more than you in the west. Why don’t you come back to India and get a job in CTA? Why do you pretend to be so intellectual when you even don’t have the moral decency to accept the truth that you are in the west for greener grass. people like you damage the cause of Rangzen and the image of JN.
Over a thousand year, Tibetan people have been engraved by Buddhist teaching. The teaching that emphasizes others over self, the teaching that emphasizes logic over faith, the teaching that emphasizes the principles of causality, the teaching that emphasizes mental activity beyond materialism, the teaching that recognize ignorance being root cause of all evil and the teaching that reject divine creation of the universe and emphasizes on dependent origination. And of course Buddhist teaching covers extensively the subject of morality beyond conventional definition of compassion, love, kindness, patience, respect and so on. Tibetan way of thinking, Tibetan culture and Tibetan identity for over thousand year are shaped and defined by Buddhist teachings. This is who we are and what we are as Tibetan.
Man like Lukar Jam needs to understand this. Man like Jamyang la and Lukar Jam want to disconnect themselves from this reality of Tibetaness. How can you serve people of Tibet when you disconnect yourself from the Tibetan society? Man like Lukar Jam and Jamyang la and their advocates do not represent Tibetan society. Whoever want to lead people of Tibet must represent the population. This is the common sense.
Looks like someone started drinking early again.
Yes, I am drunk with Boeja
Let’s go and get Rangzen. Start attacking His Holiness and all his supporters and CTA and it leaders. Let’s appoint Lukar Jam for our leader. He spent years in Chinese prison so that should be good enough to lead us to Rangzen. Who cares what other nations in this world think about Tibet. We don’t need any support. Democracy is a crab so just ignore what majority of people want. Until our demand is not fulfilled keep attacking our own people and that will lead us to Rangzen. You are a hypocrite. If CTA people earn more than you in the west. Why don’t you come back to India and get a job in CTA? Why do you pretend to be so intellectual when you even don’t have the moral decency to accept the truth that you are in the west for greener grass. people like you damage the cause of Rangzen and the image of JN.
“A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.”
― Winston S. Churchill
“From the beginning men used God to justify the unjustifiable.”
― Salman Rushdie, The Satanic Verses
“There were a lot of gods. Gods always come in handy, they justify almost anything.”
― Margaret Atwood, The Blind Assassin
“People are never so completely and enthusiastically evil as when they act out of religious conviction.”
― Umberto Eco, The Prague Cemetery
“From fanaticism to barbarism is only one step.”
― Denis Diderot, Essai sur le mérite et la vertu
” Secrets of My Operation ” Autobiography of White who sometimes writes as Shakespearan fan or van but also calls self low life!
Born moron; indoctrinated into fanaticism; assigned on this blog to trash JN supporters. I also write in Tibetan on Khabdha Tibetan blog under the pseudonym of Lungtok. Modus Operandi is same: cajole the host and if it doesn’t work the. spasm their blog. Use threat which often works. Threats is sanctioned if the purpose serves higher beings, through whom one directly benefits.
Mission is simple, to make my pay masters happy. My talking points are same. Shugden and Lukar Jam. Since beginning of election cycle, my paymasters want me to focus on Lukar Jam. The difference is I get paid and Samten is just an intern.
For spring internship, please apply now at the address below:
White (Mr.)
Moron House, Fanatic Road, Divide and Rule Land, Beijing,China. Branch office in Dharamsala.
@134 Bombarding ritual cakes (Torgyak) against Chinese tank or officials partying when Chamdo is attacked by PLA despite telegraphic message or reading scriptures, seeking Mo and Lama instead of going to hospitals when one is sick. These aren’t logical but blind faith.
Democracy is not the dictatorship by the majority but how its minorities are treated.
All those who are infatuated with democracy, eat the pill of majority! Don’t the play with word, you faggots from the comfort of home! How can some crooks from exiles decide the wishes of 98% of Tibetans inside, be it middle pather or semi pseudo independent activist?
NG
@141
Did you get your paycheck? Can we Tibetans discuss our own issue? CCP propaganda time is over.
O shit, NG is back.
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/gtfafm1.gif
Supplementary appeals to the Tibetan Election Commission. Looks like many conscientious groups and individuals are finally starting to get fed up with our sham democracy and all the blatant and cynical manipulations executed by Dharsa elites – perpetrated against their own people.
https://sites.google.com/site/tibetanpoliticalreview/articles/anopenletterby52individualtibetanstotheelectioncommissionofthetibetangovernment-in-exile
134 Well said white. I agree. so hat off to the first para. Yes we as Tibetan are distinguished by certain unique qualities ingrained by Buddhist teaching. But second para ? How can u jump to a conclusion saying that JN and Lukar doesn’t shares these Tibetaness values – that they are discounted of these values. I don’t think so. None of their deeds and standings suggests your conclusion. How can someone stand for Tibet’s independent be discounted of Tibetan values. How can stand for independent be the determining factor for a one’s identity as a Tibetan. Sorry White.
So your talk of democracy is fake one? Isn’t it about majority through vote? 98% did not vote…..so are exile deciding your own fate? If so, be honest! Even in exile, middle way won, independence lost, now you accuse them as conservative and rigging votes? What is the hell going on? Are you ok? Need a mental psychiatrist for check up? So whatever Maura or JN or Jam or other growing chicken scholars said must be democratic and should be agreed and celebrated, otherwise it is a top down imposed lamaistic rule, worst funded by benevolent beijing agents? Are serious? Hope your mind is not lost…..stay true and honest and on principle. Don’t use few intellectual words you picked up in western media or late night comedy show! Waste of brain!
My suggestion, you don’t have to suck up to Indian gurus or sadhus, or you don’t have suck western asses or you don’t have suck up communist fat ass…..just be yourself and use your heads!
NG
145 I know I am wrong. But I am running out of argument to attack JN and Lukat Jam. What should I do? I too have to make a living. Don’t you?
145: I also know based on my arguments all the hreoes we sought of worshipped have to filed into the trash bin of history. To be honest, it is quite painful. Look at the roll call of the people Samdhing Rinpoche and I have to trash; of course,beginning with, who else, but, the great 13th Dalai Lama for re-claiming Tibet’s Independence. Then Ardruk Gonpo Tashi, Sikyong Lukhangpa and so on.
What choice do I have but to justify my deeds in the name of anything? Do you think it is easy for me? I have people breathing down my throat? On top of it my cousin NG, whose task I am performing, is MOCKING me, LAUGHING is butt off in his posh Embassy building.
Hi My shadow:
At least write grammatically correct English. It is not “sought of” but sort of and not “have to filed” but have to be filed, Moron.
146
You are attacking the wrong side. I told you we have to attack His Holiness, CTA and its leaders that is how we are going to get Rangzen
When I was in Gangkyi, I try to challenge Zamdhong Rinpoche but I was no matche for him. He is too great. I used to eat Tingmo and Dal in Tibetan School but now I am grown up and I can attack the hand that fed me. My English so great so I thought I can work in Times of India or New York Times but they didn’t even call me for interview.
Who is this culprit imitating White? He is getting some lession from his own deed.
Our democracy is a mirage in desert and our leaders are cactice grown with no other plants. What is Middleway Path, who follow our leaders blindly without any research and study. We are giving an opportunity to China to suppress Tibetans in Tibet and more time to exploit minnings and more Chinese migration in our land. Our exile leaders have luxurious life in India with no worry on Tibet. They are treaded as international celebrity figure and they are shrewd politicains. We need change in our CTA system or regret later.
WHITE | NOVEMBER 13TH, 2015 | 11:15 AM
148 is posted by Shakespearean Fan.
JN should do something if he want to keep his blog some sort of respectability. JN totally ignored my request to delate this account which is opened by Shakespearean Fan to confuse people with my name “White”.
I don’t want to be drawn to level where Shakepearean Fan belong.
Shakespearean Fan want to defend Shugden followers but attack Dalai Lama and CTA. Way to go man.
China brought in democratic reform by toppling Kudras and lamas, you complained of invasion. Now you consider the same thing, democracy must be synonymous to attack Dalai Lama or it must be religious right! Come on folks, world is not built on one system of running a community. Be careful in moderating talks and be thoughtful! Democracy itself a sort of philosophy amongst many, the practical democracy defers in every country the way it is run and the way power is distributed. Therefore, system needs to be adapted to people’s sensibilities and way of life, not that people conform to system. Otherwise, we will end up like conforming to communism or despotic aristocratic rules which wreaked havoc. Are still an useful idiot for liberal western propaganda which we heard too much in schools? This propaganda annihilated any sort of community in the middle east or Africa! Life is more than a simple propaganda or my political ideology is better than yours. We can have all at the same time provided you are intellectually grounded and without ulterior movies or not manipulated by some forces because you are intellectually inferior and can not detect the motive behind propaganda!
NG
http://www.tibetanpoliticalreview.org/_/rsrc/1449021060351/articles/willtibetansinexileacceptdemocracywithtibetanrefugeecharacteristics/12299251_10153703708988607_1861572293285570394_n.jpg
You be the judge if Jamyang La can represent Tibetan population. Following are excerpts from one of his interview that clearly reflects his attitude towards Tibetan society and it leaders.
“I think Dalai Lama has lost his dream for Tibetan independence. And, primarily because he lives, to some extent, high above the normal Tibetans. He lives, to some extent in the ivory tower.”
“It’s not even in our control, in some ways. These things are spontaneous; it happens because of people’s moral indignation and their suffering. When it happens, blood is shed. It’s not for me to approve or disapprove of this. This is the nature of life. I think His Holiness sometimes forgets this. Whatever it is, he is a spiritual leader. But, he is a Buddhist monk also. He’s cut off from the normal life of the Tibetans.”
“We are ordinary Tibetans. We drink; we eat; we feel passion; we love our wives and kids. If someone sort of messes around with them, even if they’re an army, you pick up your rifle. If you don’t defend your wife and your kid, you cannot survive. What will happen to you in the end. People do these things. This is something that I don’t think the Lamas and his Holiness understand in ordinary people.”
“We don’t all want enlightenment. We are quite happy, sometimes with our little field, and our horses and the guns and your wife and your kids. Some people don’t want to be enlightened, at least not immediately. They are really happy in their landscape and in Tibet. They have a kind of affinity to their place they live in. And, they don’t want the Chinese there. And, his Holiness cannot understand this.”
“The need of lay people–in Tibetan we are called the “Black Haired People.” People with long hair. People with long hair— really, Why do they need freedom? People in monasteries, to a certain extent, they live in their discipline. But we don’t want to live in discipline. We are like horseman– I put this in — Not me, I’m talking for the Tibetan people. I haven’t written or asked for the last 20 years– But, these are people who want space, who want their freedom, who don’t like to be ordered about.
Who is speaking for them? And, I don’t think His Holiness is speaking for them. Neither is Richard Gere nor his Holiness, his friends out in the West. They are talking about a very specific Tibet; they’re talking about the monks and the nuns. Yes, of course, we love the monks and nuns and we respect them. But, we are the ones who pay the taxes in the end. We are the ones who support the monasteries. You know, when the monasteries are attacked, we’re the ones who fight.Our children become monks and nuns. The monks and nuns don’t have children to continue their institutions. This is something that is done by the ordinary Tibetan who is neglected in this factor. That factor is not even accounted sometimes. Therefore, I think His Holiness in wrong.”
And, all he meets really are sort of leaders even from the West; and, I think, they give him really wrong advice. The kind of influence he gets from those people are absolutely wrong. “But, they (hippies) subscribed to the karma, to the Tibetan Buddhism, especially because Tibetan religion is very rich in color and in ritual and in ceremony. It’s not much fun for a Western hippie to be a kind of… (inaudible) Buddhist, which is very stark. It doesn’t have all that color and music and all the mysticism. So, Tibetan Buddhism was the in thing. And it became quite a small industry in India with a lot of Lamas.
“That’s very simple. You just have to look at lot of these people (Tibetan supporters), a lot of the New Age people. Look at the way they think. There’s tremendous inadequacy in their kind of spiritual lives. And, I’m not saying blaming society or anything for it, but this is the way a lot of these people feel. And a lot of the younger generation at that time picked up on it. A lot of the hippies now had become fairly affluent, maybe even powerful people out in the west. A lot these people are ones who are still pushing their kind of flower power type perception, and they’re pushing it on us Tibetans.
Like, I’m a Tibetan –when I talk about my politics, about my country, oftentimes the critics I get are not Chinese or other Tibetans, but Westerners. They say, “How dare you contradict the Dalai Lama? How dare you say Tibetans should take up arms against the Chinese?”
Following are the Lukar Jam’s views.
Non-violence and other’s before self are just mere words and have no meaning especially with regards to the Education Policy.
if you are attacked, you should attack back.
Although the Dalai Lama has failed to restore freedom in Tibet, he has worked tirelessly to make Dharamsala the Vatican of Tibetan Buddhism, at times even at the expense of Tibetan national interest.
If he becomes Sikyong, the Dialogue process with China will never happen.
One of the first thing Lukar Jam said he will do if he becomes Sikyong is that he will change the name of CTA to Tibetan Government in Exile no matter what. Lukar Jam think he do not need permission from Indian Government. Lukar Jam think He can swing his sword any direction he want.
The Patriotic Re-education policy by the Chinese Government is no different from how Dogyal Practitioners are being restricted to practice.
Lukar Jam have a problem with His Holiness but no problem with Shugden people who shake hands with China.
Can Lukar Jam represent Tibetan population?
May be few people in this blog but not the society.
@NG Chinese didn’t accept the democratic process and progress brought by Japanese. They called it a Rape of Nanking etc. Why should Tibetan accept the subjugation under Chinese occupation.
Don’t expect the Tibetans that Chinese themselves didn’t want to live under colonialism.
Shakespearean Fan!
You have created highly hyperbolized statement on Lukar Jam. I think you are simply trying to demonize a true patriotic Tibetan who wants to change our dormant struggle into an international hot topic. We must appreciate his initiative and pioneering a new wave of fight.
Lukar is no different fraom Amdo Gedun Chophel and Dawa Norbu to start a revolution in our community. I think we needed these kind of people who have wider horizon, not just Dharamasala and Tibetan settlements in India.
Jamyang-la:
As ironic as it might seem from all my moronic position and countless meaningless argument, I am with you 1000% . Yes, it is not a mistake with extra zeros. It is one thousand percent.
We are grateful to you and people like Lukar Jam for bringing forth what many of timid like us. After reading the Shakespearan fan impostor pasted to denounce you, I have one word for JN, THANK YOU. We are proud of you. I wrote even before that you are in league of Vaclav Havel and others.
“Life … is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
― William Shakespeare, Macbeth
@karze: Japan was one of members to the eight members of European power who carved up China for economic interest. Japan did not bring democracy nor Europeans, later by Americans. All those were for economic interest and projecting power. These colonial power took little interest in reforming government or social stagnation or classification. Whether China brought democracy or is unimportant, I simply argued for your naivety about democracy and chattering with no reason. At least, China brought down the old guards and deposits rulers who denied education to you, while their sons and daughters sent for education in India and further their interest. Of course, sons and daughters in Kham and Amdo sent their kids to study in China simply because it was the trend in China, definitely not for further political rule. If you are aristocratic or lama descent, without Communist forces, you could not have this opportunity to be empowered. Of course, communist used excessive force, but the same tactics used even to Han Chinese. Regarding to history and idea if political Tibet, khampas did not want to stay under the colonial and despotic rule of Tibetan government and fought wars to maintain their independence, Lhasa government did not consider Amdo as part of their territory either when Amdowas were fighting Mapu Fang and so as the history goes, present Dalai Lama waited for approval from Ma to enter into Tibet, and so even the territory between China and Tibet bordered at source of drichu or Yangtze River. So, for which Tibetans are you speaking and intend to represent?
The Last Dalai Lama?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/magazine/the-last-dalai-lama.html
” I used to eat Tingmo and Dal in Tibetan School but now I am grown up and I can attack the hand that fed me.” Really ? Do you think Syrian refugees will die of starvation and refugee children will grow up dumb?
People who quote Buddhism right and left forget that life is all about luck and chance?
When Tibetans have ceased to choose next Dalai Lama, Panchen Lama would automatically head of Tibetans. This means our wishfull dream ( MWP ) will come true.
@164 You mean the fake one.
Luck is everything. We don’t have to do anything. It was a big deal to settle one thousand Tibetans in US but US can settle ten thousand Syrians no problem. You see its luck. Many civilizations thrived and extinct in human history purely with luck.
America and China are worlds richest two countries purely with luck. They didn’t do anything.
One day we get Rangzen with luck as well so don’t worry be happy. Just keep attacking CTA.
Enough said about our democratic society or democratic government as inadequate, unfair, fake or sham and so on. Many countries around the world emerged in the last few decades from legacies of military rule, colonial control, apartheid, authoritarianism and statism to democratic societies. Each made distinct choices to transition towards greater openness and freedom to reform their society. Each has their own unique cultures and values and traditions, circumstances which had to be threaded into the new government they were about to venture. All these democratic governments share some commonality but far from identical. This is the reason two democratic governments cannot be the same and cannot be compared. Exact definition of the democracy today varies because it has evolved so much from the original. Famous quote from President Lincoln “of the people, by the people, for the people” is the one I like as a definition of democracy. Irrespective of its structure and name, fundamentally the political system must support the values and interest of the population. Democracy does not mean throwing out everything “old”. Democracy does not mean forgetting religion, culture, tradition and values we hold dearly.
@162
I want to see people in this blog response to your comments. Your English is pretty good so they will like you for that.
Normally I have been exchanging talks between people like NG on other social media. All these people have memorized CCP propaganda or their brain is programed with CCP propaganda so they can’t think beyond that. USSR is China’s God despite of fractious relationship and US is the enemy to kill despite its survival depended on US. Dalai Lama is a devil in Monks rob despite of reverence by whole world and Mao is their savior despite of killing half the population. Old culture is bad and must be burned despite of all China’s pride belong to old culture and old inventions and new culture is problem free despite of modern day slavery labour and turned whole nation as a world factory. Japans invasion of China is territorial encroachment but Chinese invasion of Tibet is liberation.
Definitely, I am not attacking CTA but trying to share my idea how to bring Tibetans together, including Shugden followers, Karmapa Thayey Rinpoche’s followers, Dromo Geshe’s followers…..etc. As saying goes “united we stand and divided we fall” and to put this proverb into practice we must have standard democractic system of administration. We make government and government has to
have a leader who understands the principle responsibilities and duties of Tibet and its people. We do not want a leader who is ambitious in his fame and split his people.
As you all know that democracy is for the peopl, by the people and of the people. Leader has to involve in every movement of our cause marching or protesting in the street with rest of Tibetans. Leaders can not sit and watch what the people are doing in the street. Almost all Tulkus are never take part in our protest for our cause. They enjoy in their cozy chamber and taking the best meal when everybody is protesting in the street.
@NG: I can say nothing more or less. But I must say that you are like a little kid fooled by chocolate while your patrimony is stolen behind your back.
Of course, I do not support the old feudal theocratic society. But almost all society were of similar nature throughout the world except few exceptions like European during the same period.
Your views are similar to those of Beijing and China apologists. Apologist like Bill Clinton will say Genocide in Kosowo, Palestine etc but when it come to Tibet then narrative changes to oh its internal affairs of China.
@White: You are making a lot of assumptions. Well, China don’t consider U.S.S.R as God, however, Chinese communist got their first wave of European ideology of socialism and communist through Soviet Union who was the actual practioner of Marx’s idea for ills of then European exploitation of their own people. At the same period in 1920s, China just able to shake off “considered foreign domination” which was Manchu rule, many even justifies toppling the emperor was due to its ineffective governance of internal extortion and corruption, weak response to external encroachment since the defeat of opium war and lose of territory to English and Portugal. In this vacuum of power, ideologies were blossoming and Republic of China ruled by regional warlords. In this contest of ideologies, militaristic versus communist, each side supported by their foreign crooks, Soviet and America. Well, the choice of ideologies is not a matter of tricks or cleverness, it was by accident of which new information consumed and used as a weapon to respond to social ills and rejuvenation of Chinese nation. Communist leaders studied communism and nationalist leaders studied in Japan and America. That’s how fractions gave to open internal fight which degenerated into petty politics, it is a similar case that Tibetans in exile heading on, while rangzen folks claimed more modern and educated, consider self as harbinger of democracy and protector of this ideology, despite their ideology too came from west as same as communist or Chinese nationalist ideologies. Another reason why China distrust America is, it’s support to South Korea and advancing to Chunese door, China had to intervene with manpower and stop it which was successful, then America’s continued support to Taiwan as legitimate government of China than Communist government and of course it’s half hearted support to China guerrilla which was originally founded as defender of Buddhism until Nixon pulled the rug off their feet and left rotten into the remote mustang, of course, JN’s consipracy and personal grudge misdirected to people who bridged chia and guerrillas mainly Gyalo. That is one of the reason he has been harbor in an anti establishment sentiment who always bend to dig mistakes even if it did not exist. Of course, it was also source of tension in exile later when many of the members of guerrilla contacted Tibetan Mongolian affairs desk independently and even moved or fled there for whatever reasons. Of course, in modern day Chinese mistrust of America is all well known unless you are living in a cave, clash over archepeles in south China sea and America’s continued support for Senkaku island or Diaoyu Island. China’s encroachment into Tibet is as real as Japan’s military misadventure in China. The difference is Tibet was not the Tibet exiles consider as the entire plateau, it was TAR which was virtually independent between 1913-1959. When Manchus exercised rule, their version of Tibet was and Tibet government’s version of Tibet was the same, Tibet autonomous region was Tibet. In modern times, exiles claim a non existed country on the basis of civilization. That is where exiles getting things wrong. I am fully in support of fact. If two of cholkas, namely Khampa and Amdo, exiles will be in trouble yet their claim do not hold water anymore. Even definition of democracy is symbolic, because if Tibetans do not participate in the votes only 2.5% of exiles vote for themselves. Even within themselves, majority or democratic voice is disrespected and condemned as a trick played by gangden podrang. As far as JN is considered, middle way itself is a trick played by Dalai Lama if you read his article on middle way which was intended to de legitimize it to a group of brainless folks. I have many reasons to admire and respect Dalai Lama, but one of them, exiles are spokesperson for Tibetan, but not a decision maker for them. He truly says and symbolize true democracy. By saying this, I am 100% against sadhu idea as core Tibetan national identity and civilization!
Tenzin Rangdol the NA chitue candidate who I voted for only because he made it public that he was running on a Rangzen platform; and indeed, in the prelims, ended up in 2nd place. Now, his name is not even listed. The 2nd place is given to the 3rd place Umay lame candidate.
Again, I am sure its not deliberate but an honest mistake; although its uncanny how “mistakes” seem only to occur to non umay lame individuals and groups.
http://www.tibetsun.com/elections/preliminary-18-october-2015-official-results
If Hell is paved with good intentions, how far can Heaven be what with the Tibetan Election Commission (mis)leading us?
Phayul reports: Lukar Jam is officially out.
I give him credit for testing the water that is the Tibetan democracy. I am sorry, that in the testing; he ended up swallowing urine. Not that people like Lukar Jam and JN types were ignorant the hoi polloi are peeing in the water, nor not so simple as to actually believe the fully-retired moon ceases to reflect on all waters.
It’s certain now, we Tibetans will never enjoy honest democracy; the ground is frozen over by the Umay Lame establishment where nothing grows now ‘cept perfidy and cold-comfort.
The question is, what to do? How can we outgrow, spoiled, on mother’s milk? The contemptuous tit is cold, and I am sick at heart.
@NG According to your logic Mongols can claim to China and vast part of Asia as Ghengis, Kublai Khan and their descendant ruled much of Asia fr hundreds of years.
Tibetans should merge with India since so many Tibetans have studied and graduated from India.
Before logic, facts, real time histories, we need to test the credibility and integrity of China. Before we talk about the events that took place a hundred years ago or a thousand years ago, we need to talk about the events of our time or something happening right now. If the China can lie straight outright with bold face about present time events and ignore the facts we can see with our own eyes and we can hear with our own ears, how can we Tibetans possibly not expect full fledge lie about the past. CCP’s propaganda videos make me laugh the most. Black and white and all miserable past, and colourful, singing, dancing and partying present day is the most obvious fictions drama even the fool cannot deny.
It is not up to Dalai Lama or China to decide who is Tibetan and who is not Tibetan. If people of Amdo or Kham decide to be Chinese or believe themselves they are Chinese people, nobody can undo that. As a matter of fact, if people of Tibet decide to be Chinese or believe themselves they are Chinese people or Tibetan are Chinese than what other say is not important at all. But the fact is that all Tibetans; people of Utsang, Amdo and Kham believe they are only Tibetan, not Chinese and nobody can change that. Even Chinese mighty army is no match for spirit of Tibetan people.
White!
The decision has already been by the HH Dalai Lama to be adjusted with China as Middleway Path and 90% Tibetans follow him. As a result, Dr. Lobsang Sangay and Penpa Tsering are leading in election.
What happened to the candidate tenzin rangdol folks from NA ? Maybe another victim of EC legerdamian after lukar jam ?
http://tibettimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/13.jpg
Hand behind knocking Tenzin Rangdol is the master stroke of Sikyong Lobsang
Sangay’s henchman Dhonchoe Kaydor. Lobsang Samgay is betting on two horses in North American Chithue and they are lady candidate and guy named Kalsang Phuntsok Jungney ( who even do not want to stand for Chithue).
By knocking out Tenzin Rangdol, Lobsang Sangay got his madam into second place and Ngari Association of America backed Kalsang Phuntsok Jungney into the list of official candidate at no: 8
Chithue Tsokstoe has one horse in the race and it is the infamous Thinley Kalsang of New York.
Lobsang Sangay’s people will make sure to knock Tashi Namgyal out. Tashi Namgyal is considered too close to people in Gaden Prodrang and is instrumental in raising the issue of disbanding His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s portrait from Office of Tibet, and replacing it with almost a life-size portrait of Sikyong himself, North Korean Kim Jong Un style. Lobsang Sangay hates Tashi Namgyal for raising this issue in the parliament, and thereby having to reverse back taking down Kim himself’s portrait.
I think Tashi Namgyal will lose because of concreted effort of Sikyong Sangay’s campaign push.
http://tibettimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/13.jpg
http://tibettimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/01.jpg
http://tibettimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2.jpg
http://tibettimes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/07.jpg
You make it seem like Dr. Sangay is running Dharsa uncontested, yet that’s clearly not true when we gauge the prelim results which show the Dharsa elite votes mostly aligned behind Penpa Tsering la.
It’s debatable who weld more power, Lobsang Sangay or Penpa Tsering under GP coalition?
If you have real evidence of Dr. Sangay’s political hanky-panky, please feel free to share it with the Tibetan people.
If the EC made a mistake they should correct it immediately; imagine how Tenzin Rangdol la must be feeling? The whole candidate list is less than 200 names, so fixable it wouldn’t take more than few minutes, if that. Maybe they are “busy”. EC mouthpiece keeps making the “we are busy” excuse, especially with regards to the Open Letters and the delays in replying. Just what are they busy with? No way to know: no checks and balances, no transparency, no independent observers.
Three bosses and who knows how many underlings to count few thousand votes; which seem to spare no time, but must take weeks and weeks, forgoing food and sleep?
Some say, they dont even have internet, so must print by hand all 6 million names. But even before that, they need paper, but no paper on hand. Now they must cut down 10.000 trees, but no tools!! Each tree must be dug out from the roots; each individual worm found in the soil has first to be moved by gentle hands to safer local……You see the problem? lol
To speculate, Tenzin Rangdol la may have violated some kind of EC rule, above and beyond Penpa Tsering’s hate speech. Can’t wait to hear what it is; if indeed, its anything at all but an oversight.
The reason for my suspicion that it may not be an oversight — Tibetsun publicized the list with the missing name and when some in the comment section was requested explanation, TS admin stayed hush-hush. Fast-forward to when the prelim results came out, Tibetsun exhibited vigorous enthusiasm whereby questions were answered immediately and decisively.
Of-course, as I have stated, this is pure speculation on my part; and in the end, Tenzin Rangdol la might have nothing to worry about.
@karze+@white: Instead of arguing over topic in an abstract way and self made believes. How about this statistics, the ground realities always shifted by majority of population. Some people talk and day dream or being in illusion is great to escape realities, others work! Chinese certainly work on the ground while you talk of your pseudo democracy and might to the west the first opportunity available. Anyway, here you go!
Qinghai Province
Han Chinese:54.5%, Tibetan:20.7%
Gan Nan Tibetan Aunomous Precture
Han Chinese:41.75%, Tibetan:51.44%
Tianzhu Tibetan Autonomous County:
Han Chinese:62.88%, Tibetan: 29.87%
Ngawa Tibetan and Qiang Autonomous Prefecture
Han Chinese:20.6%, Tibetan:57.3%, Qiang:18.6%
DechenTibetan Autonomous Prefecture
Han Chines 16.39, Tibetan:33.12%, Lisu:27.28%
Muli Tibetan Autonomous County
Han Chinese:21.85%, Tibetan:32.39%, Yi:27.71%
Tibet Autonomous Region or Independent Tibet
Han Chinese:8.17%, Tibetan:90.48% (This is
assumed as political correct data as it allays
international concern while buy time to overpopulate
through economic model of human migration)
Inner or Southern Mongolia
Han Chinese:79%, Mongolian:17%
Xinjiang Urgyur Autonomous Province
Han Chinese:40.48%, Urgyur:45.84
If TAR’s population is really like the statistis given by CCP, then you still have time to fight for independence of old Tibet. Otherwise, someone is in deep trouble!
NG
If Kukar Jam truly believes in democracy, he should accept election defeat and move on instead of constantly whining about EC. Lukar Jam’s election defeat is a decision made by people of Tibet not by EC.
I have to be intoxicated to believe in CCP’s data. Chinese military presence in every corner of Tibetan street is the ground reality in Tibet.
@NG If 99 people bully and torture one person that doesn’t mean that 99 are right.
@NG So you believe in Rape of Nanjing but not Rape of Tibet. Yours is copycat narrative of CCP.
I simply gathered publically available data. I trust data and personal experience more than some theorizing context and creating stories that are inconsistent with historical realities. Good Luck!
NG
Jamyang la
Can you write something about if there are any similarities between Chinese entry to Tibet 50 plus years ago and Chinas involvement in Africa at present day? You know all Tibetans heard China was saying “they come to Tibet to help”. of course it wasn’t the intention. Why China is so much interested in Africa? I am 100% sure there is no humanitarian interest. World’s second largest economy, China pledged less than $2m to help relief effort in Philippines during Typhoon Haiyan. Even Ikea donated $2.7m at that time.
@NG I guess you also believe that China peacefully liberated Tibet without shedding a drop of blood as claimed by Beijing.
Now Beijing is saying that it will crack down on so-called fake Buddhas while the # 1 fake Buddha was installed by Beijing in Tibet (Panchen Lama) son of party official / cadre.
@Karze: there was no case of bloodshed before 1959 in Tibet, the political Tibet. In fact, common folks welcomed Chinese PLA and more importantly Kudras sold their extra grains for PLA and rented their estate to Chinese army camping! While common men suffered like serfs on estate. This is a different story which is either willingly censured from our collective memory or outright condemned as Chinese propaganda.
Regarding Penchen Lama, as far as Penchen Lama is concerned, his recognition was fake as far as Tibetan government was concerned. Tibetan government plan of protesting against him when he visited Nepal is a point in case. He became valid reincarnation of 9th Penchn Lama because of his dedication to Tibetan people and his work.
So. Regarding the so called Chinese Penchn Lama, it depends on his work and dedication.
In general, all these reincarnations are in fact a fraud. Even 14th Dalai Lama had an alternative candidate even after his declaration as real reincarnation.
NG
Lol…..taking so long to publish? This is WordPress, not a complicated to web!
NG
There is not a shred of doubt that either you are Chinese or Dolgyal group or an apologist.
No one is saying that Tibet was utopia before the Chinese invasion. More Tibetans have died unnaturally since 1950 under Chinese than in the entire recorded history of Tibet. Why would a farmer and nomads risk their lives in tens of thousands just escaped in sicne 1959.
Do you mean to say that China was Utopia before 1950 and after 1949? Needless to say, average Tibetan people lived far better than the Chinese counter-part before 1949 as Tibetan women’s foot were not bound to disability or Tibetans died because of starvation.
I do not support Trulku system as it made Tibetan lay people second class.
Can you debate without resorting to characterization? Goodness!
It will be an interesting to compare social condition of two countries. Let me cite one example, owing to famine in China proper, a Chinese family came to His Holiness home for alms to stop their babies been eaten, his family even employed Chinese workers or servants, all done as legally without any visas because His Holiness was in fact a Chinese citizen but of Tibetan nationality. By saying this, the capture of Chamdo was the starting point of invasion of Tibet. Just to put stuff into perfect ice, so you would not have an illusion of kham and Amdo as part of political Tibet because you resort to emotion rather than facts. When Ngabo who sent telegram to Lhasa when his border was encroached by the Chinese armies soon, he realized Tibet was in danger, but not before Chamdo about to fall. After he was captured, PLA walked into Lhasa with great socialist slogans and public welcomed them with applause and wonder. High elite class were well paid with silver coin called Dayang for grains and place for PLA. Kudras were happy win lots of money in hands! This went on until 1956, when so called democratic reform did not work out in KHam and Amdo, the trouble started and people escaped into political Tibet for refuge. Many upper elites disgusted with refugees and tried to return them, anyway they were not citizen of political Tibet, who cares? The reform carried out in Tibet, Kudras robbed of their Dayang in the Maoist class struggle or clever ones quickly transported to India on the back of mules. Finally, so called Tibetan national uprising in Lhasa in 1959 is tiny iceberg and it is a politicized version of events. Kham and Amdo’s climax of rebellion was in 1958, so keep this fact in mind.
NG
I couldn’t contribute anything so far (not even a participation in a rally) just because I couldn’t choose a path – whether Rangzan or Umaylam. It’s a difficult choice. Opting for Rangzan risks of getting an anti-Dalai Lama tag; and to Middle Way may charge as “Traitor”. I don’t want both. Because I am neither anti-Dalai Lama nor traitor. So the best option is to remain neutral. What to do..! But the prevailing scenario is so entertaining, even more than a Richard Gere’s movie, as two wings of same root clashes each other, plotting to isolate the other from public support. Great.!! I wishes this go on and, on and never be settled into a mutual unified wheel.
Again, is it hard use a wordpress? If need help, let me know I will run this blog!
NG
What’s going on? Enjoy your life ..dont be so depressed for your grandparents legacy. World give a shit to Tibetan cause. The supporter for tibet are toothless useless……merry Christmas! There r far more human in worst situation than us..help them out…enjoy ur life! Chinese are not happy and will never be happy…help those poor Chinese.
http://www.vox.com/2015/12/11/9894248/canada-syrian-refugees-welcome
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/12/world/americas/syria-refugees-arrive-in-canada.html
Can someone ask the whole Kha Dring Jedren Enslavement political moblization group, who should these Syrian refugees thank for?
Will these refugee kids not get proper education? I bet even one of these kids will one day rise to high political office in Canada.
“a Chinese family came to His Holiness home for alms to stop their babies been eaten.” Hahaha..
I thought we decided to keep this a secret NG?
Wait til the world finds out kudaks in old Tibet ate Chinese babies.
We better lay our before someone find out and lash at your ass!
NG
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=33609&t=1
Is there any JN’s response for this.? If any provide the link, please. Curious to look at.!!
You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance – Ray Bradbury
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/13/opinion/the-words-that-killed-medieval-jews.html
When I read this great article, somehow my mind keep racing back to the things we are witnessing in our own community, against Rangzen advocates and others.
The success of Chinese invasion of Tibet was largely contributed by political vacuum occurred during 13th Dalai Lamas death and 14 Dalai Lamas maturity. The Chinese money, Dhayang had intoxicated corrupted officials. Civilians were cheated by Chinese diabolical cunning political strategy, “we come here to help Tibet” Just like China is doing in Africa in these days but in a different fashion. What happened in Tibet during this political turmoil does not represent the fundamental reality of Tibet as a nation and society. The fundamental fact is that Tibetans from three provinces on this earth including those corrupted Tibetan officials do not recognize or consider or feel Tibet as part of China and Tibetans as Chinese. For thousands of years Tibetans recognize themselves as Tibetan and not Chinese. Piece of treaty, piece of events or piece of history do not change this fundamental facts. Any claim, events, definition and history about Tibet asserted by outsiders or foreigners especially by China is inapplicable to this fundamental fact. China’s full military force has no power to destroy this fundamental fact. Tibets past, present and future is defined and determined by people of Tibet only nobody else.
” Tibets past, present and future is defined and determined by PEOPLE of Tibet only nobody else.”
And who are PEOPLE of Tibet?
Not Lukar Jam, JN and other Rangzen Advocate.
Not TYC members.
Not Chusi Gandruk Members
Not certain section of Buddhist followers.
Then Who?
Oh yeah – I forgot Umae Lam PEOPLE!
And what do they want?
What else but to live under China as second class Chinese citizen!
If so, why this moronic muttering against your Faustian cousin NG? Just smothered him with bearhug with love as Ted Cruz says.
Several months ago I was thinking to vote for Lukar Jam. But right now I am in a completely different place. I am relieved that PRC has taken over the governance of Tibet. The more and more I observe Tibetans carefully, from the leadership to the ordinary folks to the ones who are supposed to have renounced the material world, I see a bunch of insincere, self centered, bigoted, and illiterate humanoids who are not ready to be part of a civilized society let alone democratic one.
Buddhist Ayatollahs like Samdog Rinpoche and the mindless lackeys of the leadership continue to use their bully pulpit to excite the minds of a savage race against a handful of brave and honest people among them.
If these power drunk people in the leadership have the authority it is certain that the pitiful number of brave intellectuals in the society would have received the death penalty for blasphemy for criticizing their inane arbitrary actions.
Lol….too emotional. There is no such thing as fact never changing especially true for sociological change. The fact about Tibet changed two major times, proud warrior of Bon era to self defeating period of sadhu followers. Even in this sequence of change, the violence of Buddhist against Bonpos in order to gain foothold is absolutely astounding, especially coming from enlightened Buddhist Tibetans. The honest narrative of history is hugely condemned political correctness of major power holders. So what fundamental fact did not change? Mon Tawang was especially piece of land more part of Tibetan government than Kham and Amdo if look at any sane history, so what is the fact today? It is a fundamental fact that it is part of India and legitimately endorsed by corrupt and powerless exile establishment! Even large portion of people from Toepa decided to be part of Nepal and still are effectively part of Nepal than Tibet, regardless Tibet is ruled by China or not. Tibetan exile folks amusingly like to raise the fact of Manchuria and Inner Mongolia as being independent countries! Well, I am not sure they countries in modern sense but their history say that they had to be recognized with due respect in the past in terms of empires. But modern day fact is different, they are part of China and can’t really do much because of the fact nobody can change the fact once they ruled China or even raided across the globe and established four grand khanate! Still they feel they feel their ethnic identities, yet they have no choice to embrace modern Chinese identity in the context of geopolitics because their population is so insignificant! Yes, nobody dispute the fundamental fact of their past glorious history nor denies it, in fact loudly taught in schools all over the world, the ongoing and Manchu empires! Do these fact help them much? Of course not, societies are gone once you reach certain critical criteria like population depletion, civilization degeneration, cultural stagnancy, and being stuck in a shit hole of economy and finance, I call this as “point of no return”. These fact do not help save your sentimental fundamental fact! Even native Americans or Red Indians have to live with immigrants and share their land and resources with immigrants! Acknowledging this fact of powerless to defend their tribal lands does not mean the fundamental fact of their stewardship of land as native is a mistaken fact. They just need to live with modern realities! Nobody can neither deny their fundamental fact of their native civilization and steward of the land, nor can they expel all immigrants including Tibetan immigrants to the land where they come from. This is a fundamental fact too!
NG
http://time.com/4148911/thailand-bhumibol-tongdaeng-lese-majeste/
Are you getting the picture of importance of TRUE democracy?
Conservatives /Umae Lam may be thinking, only IF we a country then …
@ 209
Our Kashaak or Sikyong and Members of Parliament represent people of Tibet. All the people you listed have every right to vote or choose their own representatives to serve in CTA. I hope know meaning of democracy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-pushes-construction-project-to-liberate-a-cradle-of-tibetan-culture/2015/12/12/58c80b7c-9c74-11e5-9ad2-568d814bbf3b_story.html
Umae Lam crap: Don’t forget to read this.
@!: do you want to live in a shitty hole because of culture? Those Tibetans deserve better living standard including housing. Therefore, don’t politicize it. Rangzen or Umaylam, essentially a same shithole! Of course, any western media has certain agenda to reinterpret into their theories. You know why! Hell ya, we have been funding RFA and VOA for decades, and Tibetan exile were fed with little piece of fund pie!
NG
” Our Kashaak or Sikyong and Members of Parliament represent people of Tibet. All the people you listed have every right to vote or choose their own representatives to serve in CTA. I hope know meaning of democracy. ”
1. What type of democracy is it?
Oh I forgot. Is is UNQIUE – it is God bestowed, divine democracy with divine right to rule; with divine intervention.
2. What do our Sikyong and Chithue Tsoktso want?
Do I need to even mention it?
So, conclusion is same. Embrace NG with bear hug of love. He is your cousin. Between crazy White and Faustian NG, their argument is all SIBLING rivarlary.
Their enemy and target is same: it is not China, it is Rangzen Advocate.
So I started laughing from my butt of, when White pleaded with JN to defend him against NG’s argument. A guy who would go to any extend to trash Lukar Jam and fellow Tibetan Buddhists with a different set of view, couldn’t fight NG, the China’s envoy on the blog? This shows how weak is the argument of Umae Lam crap and GP camp is, despite all the financial investment of endless ” Sab-Jong” a convenient word for brain washing.
Rebut my point. Don’t interprets through your utopian view? Since Chinese are majority in Tibetan populated areas outside of TAR, even with democracy, Tibetan independence dreamers will loose the fight at the ballot box. What method you have? Even by the time get to the ballot box, your kids will be assimilated so deeply down the hole. Therefore, your dream will be gone with you! Can you prove otherwise?
NG
We the exile Tibetans lost our morality since insane chickens have started Oomaylam. We are giving more power to China to decide our future. This path (MWP) will only lead to win win situation to China.
Karmapa and other head of a sects could not maintain the equal religious status of his own lineage. Whereas privious Karmapa was very strong and maintained his own position. Now, today head of all sects are henpecked by one leader which endangers other lineages.
We do not have government in exile. It is CTA, just a small organization which is not rcognized by outsiders. All Gangkyi offices will be closed as soon as HH Dalai Lama takes off. Because these offices are functioning in the name of HH Dalai Lama.
His Holiness is a true friend, teacher and guide to Tibet and the Tibetan people.
Middle way is a democraticaly mandated solution to the Tibetan problem.
Rangzen ideological camp is not our enemy as certain would mislead us to believe. The CCP through its unjust policies is the real enemy.
Although not all, many here are to disrupt unity by deliberatly creating false targets and mislead the discussion into an internal squabble.
Some are here to demoralise the tibetan spirit and the tibetan movement.
But what they dont understand is that Tibetans are not that easy to break.
We have His Holiness as our guide and commonsense as the antidote to your venomous idiocracies.
Good luck.
@!:what is so difficult to address the issues I raised? You are just dancing with your own imaginative propaganda than factual statistics.
NG
People do not argue with the teaching of H.H Dalia Lama; they simply do not know it. And it is impossible to do otherwise with his teaching, for he who becomes acquainted with it cannot but agree.
བཤད ཡག་བླ་མས་བཤད།
གནང་ཡག་བླ་མས་གནང།
བླ་མ་ཐམས་ཅད་མི་རེད།
གཏོར་མ་ཐམས་ཅད་རྩམ་པ་རེད།
@222
འདྲེ་ཤར་ལ་གཞག་
བསླུས་ནུབ་ལ་གཡུག་
Most people in this blog:
Most people in this blog know only to attack CTA in name of Rangzen. Good thing their numbers can be counted on my finger. You might get some trash talks for your argument. Most people here do not even know how to debate properly but claim to hold higher ground in education field. They have no problem insulting people with any term but claim to hold higher moral ground. They think criticizing His Holiness and CTA is democratic right but criticizing Lukar Jam is attack against Rangzen wala. They talk about democracy but do not want accept the election result. They act like they have to get Rangzen from CTA not from China. I am defending His Holiness and CTA but I Belong to NG cohorts who have been attacking Tibet as whole. The list of their oxymoron behavior goes on and on.
I raised some real issues! If dynamics of population is changed, you lost the war. It is a fact in Erswhile independent Kham Amdo whether like it or not. If you don’t like it, fact does not change ground realities. It only proves you are building castle in air based on realities of 17th century realities and bygone politics. Raising issues, real issues do not equate to attack. Attack means deny realities. Human realities are not like debate about metaphysics! I stand with my solemn declaration, “Tibet as known as three provinces, we’re not unitary independent country.They never had single government since 9th century”!
China is holding back a lot of datas on population in TAR, publishing that 92% Tibetan and 8% Tibet is designed to mislead critics. The fact is, real statistics will be very amusing!
NG
WHITE @ 223 wrote:
འདྲེ་ཤར་ལ་གཞག་
བསླུས་ནུབ་ལ་གཡུག་
Your honor, you should be ashamed of yourself for accusing Kundun and whole Umae Lam group for witch hunt against Rangzen Advocate and other section of Tibetan community while leaving the “ghosts” as you say untouched in ” the other direction”
You ungrateful sons of B, did you forget who feed you ” tingmo and dal” and gave you education to write and speak English?
How convenient? Preach what you practice. I told thousand times that people like you are so twisted that you do not know whether you are defending yourself or dragging yourself. BTW your twin brother NG is waiting for you to rebutt. He really not only shut your mouth but also seal your other open space at the bottom too, right?
NG :
It is quite clear that either you are Han Chinese officials or Tibetan turncoat working for China from some consulate with special assignment.
Similarly, my observation is White is either Gaden Prodang paid employee or CTA rep here on this blog.
NG: if you are following Sikyong Lobsang Sangay, in his most recent speech, he said clearly even Lhasa is outnumbered by Chinese against Tibetan population. The image I get is that somehow, these facts make you regale – brimming from ear to ear like some mad comic characters. This definitely makes be believe that no sane Tibetan – even one of Chinese payroll will definitely will not enjoy.
I was hoping for a cage-match between two sibling -one the card carrying Chinese agent and other Itching to become Chinese citizen. Since White is not even able to say ABC, let me ask you NG few questions:
China has ruled Tibet for more than 60+ years, bifurcated the whole of Tibet and incorporated it into various Chinese provinces and rule it with iron fist? Yes, it is reality as you say.
But why China is still NERVOUS about Tibet?
His Holiness the Dalai Lama has no army. You call him all types of names, why are you so scared of this simple monk?
It is legitimacy.
For more than 50 years, the western nations led by U.S think that Exile Tibetans are crazy when they talk of ‘greater Tibet’ – region outside Tibet Autonomous Region, but 2008 Tibetan Uprising put the Tibetan areas outside Tibet back on the map and on the negotiating table.
China’s population for Tibetans ( and for many parts of world is a curse) As much as Tibet is sinocize, whole of South East Asian countries are witnessing the same although in a more subtle way. Although I do not believe in Umae Lam crap at all, as a true Buddhist I do believe in Karma. China will disintegrate itself sooner than you think and I say this not just as a Buddhist but as a student of International Relations. China is not what it is trying to project.
Yes, right now it looks ferocious with Chinese navy giving commands to others to back off from South Asia Sea( listen to NPR report yesterday on China navy warning others and how Australian challenging China on NPR website ) But we are talking of human history and race here. Tibet will not only survive but also thrive. I say this not to irritate you.
What I am really afraid is that guile with which China is influencing Lobsang Sangay and Dharamsala behind the scene. For JN and other scholars on Tibet, look out for reports about China using its ‘soft power’ in what they call “deodorizing” Dalai Lama. This new word is cropping up quite often in Chinese media snow. My interpretation : tricking Dalai Lama and His group in changing their positions on everything that is not acceptable to China, that is virtually everything the Tibetan exiles stand for in last 60 plus years. Mind you, the new word is “Deodorizing” Dalai Lama!
To White and other Umae Lam craps:
If you forget your history, it will repeat itself.
@!: I am expecting you to address serious issues raised like an international relation’s student. You are just trying to figure out other’s motivation which of course nobody knows exactly, including you. And I do know your assumptions are false. Unfortunately you take your assumption is fact!. So this makes little creepy and lead others to question your credentials. This is a piece of advice!
Whether Lhasa is outnumbered by Chinese population or not, read a scholarly work by Taming Tibet by Emily Yeh and talk to any local people who came from there. Your assumption is based on news about security presence in Lhasa must be meaning it otherwise. Your are over interpreting a real said situation through your political lens. Lhasan people are not just outnumbered numerically but in every walks of business and governing lives. Native Lhasan people are paid well, so they are bought. So it is bit much nuanced yet a sad situation in the long run as well as in the short term than you seem to project based on fanciful stretch of imagination.
You are making the mistake of equation Tibet to static physical and civilization all Tibet since 7th century through a political propaganda of Chinese intentional dismemberment of an unitary state and absorbing into Chinese provinces. It is a political correct tone tone in exile, but not fact. This view hides the fact of real history. Even Dalai Lama acknowledged this fact and openly stated middle way is grounded in realities and this historical blunder is one amongst many others! By your argument, Dalai Lama must be afraid of independence for all Tibetan civilizational land where he was the supreme temporal and religious leader? This sounds ridiculous, right? Nobody argues China ruled Tibet with iron fist, but that Tibet was Tibet Autonomous Region! That is why, If you travel to TAR, you need special permit, but you can travel free in Kham and Amdo, just like any other Chinese provinces. This fact alone do not add to your argument!
The concept United Independent Tibet as was created in exile. It surely had some influences in cultural Tibet. It was largely exported into China. Of course, UTsang was independent and had right to claim independent in every sense of history and legal dispute if you can when. Independence including regions outside TAR is inconsistent with historical and legal realities, it can be achieved if you have the ability to achieve, I highly doubt there is such an ability existed either in exile or in Tibet proper or in those areas. The 2008 protest occurred widely, but slogans are differing in different regions if study them closely. Participation by people is 1% or even less as compared to total numbers of Tibetans in outside TAR areas. I assume these grievances as struggling for an equal rights as black Americans struggled in 1960 and 70s. Of course, you have freedom to interprete in your own ways.
I am bit surprised to see you placed JN as fortune teller for Tibetan independence but Dalai Lama as naive and can be bought and tricked easily……hahahahahaha………….
JN is in the category of China critics who see nothing but negativity in China. More than than JN, Gordon Chang even wrote a book called Coming Collapse of China! Amey Machen institute where JN worked wrote a Tibet version of it but in a milder tone called Democritization of China and Independence of Tibet in the Post Deng Era. If JN is one of the pundits, then it seems he seemed moved away. Whatever the fact is, instead of collapse, China surged! It is not a bad thing, lives of Tibetans are lifted up enormously like rest of China although there was a roller coaster for politics! Wonder if China neither progressed nor changed, but secluded like reclusive Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, what will be the lives of Tibetan! Everyone knows what is like in North Korea at least according to western media who always little extra biases against so called dictators!
In short, independence of Tibet supported by its small pool of activist is based on collapse of China, better known as implosion of China and then seize the moment! Well, I hope will happen sooner, but after 200 years because by that time, I doubt exiles will be existed as today and by historical land lesson, Tibet will be just another Manchuria or inner or southern Mongolia!
Let me tell you this, China don’t spend money to fighting a toothless establishment in exile whose existence depend on political mood of Indian politicians! Clearly Indians were not happy with its name of government in exile, thus forced to change to CTA. But they spend billions to contain Dalai Lama everywhere. It seemed working, as past few years pattern, Dalai Lama is met with fewer world leaders, invitation to him to attend non political institutions are drastically reduced. Now he is more confined to India. Who can predict what will happen in India too? What sort of conspiracy is being hatched behind geopolitical games? It is an alarming trend indeed! Because of his containment, there is less report on Tibet which was the main goal of exiles whether independence activist or Umaylam activist! In the meantime, independence activists could not get any attention from media, forget about outperforming Dalai Lama. Unfortunately, rang zen folks turned the gun at credibility of Dalai Lama and the slow dying CTA! This is such an entertaining movie!
Let me conclude by saying: rangzen folks waiting for two things happen to achieve their goal of independence by not actually doing it except low level PR work.
1. Waiting for China implosion
2. Tibetans inside Tibet take the fight with China!
Well, I only wish good luck!
NG
Once upon a time at the foot of a great mountain, there was a town where the people known as Happyfolk lived, their very existence a mystery to the rest of the world, obscured as it was by great clouds.
Here they played out their peaceful lives, innocent of the litany of excess and violence that was growing in the world below. To live in harmony with the spirit of the mountain called Monkey was enough.
Then one day Strangefolk arrived in the town. They came in camouflage, hidden behind dark glasses, but no one noticed them: they only saw shadows. You see, without the Truth of the Eyes, the Happyfolk were blind.
Now everybody is dancing, the dance of the dead.
Good debate. Thank you for the great articles Jamyanng Norbu la. I admire your perseverance and your courage and your generosity. If I were you I would have left this willfully ignorant society long ago and used that gift some place else where it will be appreciated
@226
People like you here does not represent Rangzen advocates. TYC and SFT are prime example of Rangzen advocates.
@white: SFT and TYC are unfortunately composed by such people. You can’t separate members of organization from organization itself! They might have good folks amongst them, but strategy is same, waiting for China descend into Chaos, therefore waiting is the only strategy available! It is like someone’s house on fire and the strategic guy doesn’t want to sacrifice his live to save his dear bed ridden parents, he loves them so much, but his love don’t surpass his self security, he is shouting at the fire and waiting the fire dies out on itself by stroke of luck, then storm into the house and save his dear parents. Well, by the time fire dies out, he will only find out ashes!
NG
NG
Bravo! White ( Umae Lam) and NG ( Chinese agent) finally coming out of the closet to talk about their common enemy – Rangzen Advocates – as ” such people.
Arsonist talking of fire. Go to hell.
!@ so this the way you fight for your cause? I wonder how do you do in your international studies? No wonder, your attitude, at least is a throw back to 18th century Tibetans! Since you can not intelligently defend your rangzen project at least intellectually here, I am sure you will never have buyers for that except few of your types, empty heads!
NG
Many people here are failed and rebellious ex-CTA employees. They certainly do not represent Rangzen advocates. These people are trying find their own identity and security by contrasting themselves from the rest.
All walks of Tibetans, Umai Lam, Rangzen wala, people from Kham, Amdho and Utsang are united and determined to fight for their survival. Our current policy is Umai Lam and in the future people of Tibet might change for Rangzen. We live in a democratic society so whatever or wherever majority stand that is the way to go. People here want the democracy defined by their own term and that is not how the democracy works.
I believe JN is a true patriot Tibetan. His continuous care to Tibetan society despite having numerous charges and backlashing against him from right groups proves he is a true patriot. There are some CTA officials who says they don’t care reading JN’s writings. I just couldn’t help laughing at them. I bet those who says so don’t have level even to understand JN’s writings (if they read them), especially those of his commentaries on international politics. Forget about they writing such pieces at par with JN’s. I am proud that we have at least one intellectual who can give teeth-for-teeth answers to propagandist like Goldstein and N. Ram. Has any CTA official (especially those who don’t read JN’s writings) moved forward to tackle those works which can damage our cause severely if leaves unanswered? None..! Sometimes Tibetan seems so stupid and boneless. We rejoices exceedingly to Wang Lixong, forgetting that no matter how good he may sounds, at the end he is a Chinese who definitely care to China, not Tibet. Jamyang Norbu is a Tibetan, our own blood. No matter how bad he may be, but at the end he will care to Tibet and Tibetan, not China. But it’s seems that coming generation is waking up to this anti-intellectual mind sets of some CTA officials.
NG
All Tibetans see nothing good in China. It is not just JN. China brought nothing but misery to people of Tibet. The argument that Tibetans have better livelihood now then before 1959 so China must have done good for Tibet is simply silly. In general of course Tibetan livelihood has improved so do everywhere else around the world. China can not take credit for improvement of human society around the world. If Chana wants to stand shoulder to shoulder with other developed society in the world stage, Chana has to take Tibet with rest of China to some extend to save China’s good image. There is no alternative for China.
Your claim, the reflection of CCPs propaganda, that all Tibetans are happy in Tibet under the Chinese rule. All the trouble are caused by Dalai clique. In a sense whole Tibetan issue is created by Tibetans in exile. All Tibetans outside Tibet are elite Tibetans who were escaped in 1959.
Do you really think all the Tibetans outside Tibet got mad or lost lost sense of reality? Exile Tibetans are comprised of people from Utsang, Dhotoe and Dhomey, rich and poor, intellectuals and farmers, monks and lay people and from all walks of Tibetan life. Do you think exile Tibetans created this historical piece: སྟོད་མངའ་རིས་སྐོར་གསུམ་ བར་དབུས་གཙང་རུ་བཞི་ སྨད་མདོ་ཁམས་སྒང་དྲུག་ which explains Tibet with three provinces? China can change maps and rename all the places in Tibets but China can not change the historical facts. Moving forward, if all Tibetans are happy in Tibet, why handful of exile Tibetans even bother making noises against China? What is the point of complaining when 95% of the people are satisfied? Since 2009, 143 Tibetans self immolated in Tibet to protest against China. Does this sound like happy life in Tibet? Do you think exile Tibetans have anything to do with these protests? Almost all of the self immolation were taken place either Amdhoe or Kham. So your sinister explanation that Tibetan issue only covering China created TAR region is irrelevant.
” All Tibetans see nothing good in China? ” Are you sure ?
You mean to say NG is not a Tibetan – but a Chinese troll here, seeking to know Rangzen strategy. ལྟོ གང་བཟའ་ལྐུགས་པའི་ཁ་ལ་ཡོད།་ – You can tell what the dumb fool had for his meal from the traces of food left on side of his mouth.
Or should you be checking with GP or Sikyong Sanjay? – there answers will depend not on historical fact or ground reality – but law of increasing return.
I know what your reply will be? – people like me does not represent TYC or SFT or not even Tibetan. Your vision is Tibet without people like Lukar, JN or people like me. I am here in Kunchok’s camp.
But like the Jews during their long exiles, I like many like-minded Tibetans strive everyday, every week, every month to preserve and promote Tibetan religion and culture. Jewish people around the world during their exile turned every family in their schools and temple. We should do it too. My families’ resolution is work harder towards it.
I inculcate an all inclusive, tolerant , modern outlook oriented education to the future generation of Tibetans. We should go direct to source – quoting BUDDHA himself – leaving Shugden crap or intolerant Shugden crap too.
I think believe more in Appo Deva Bava རང་ཉིད་རང་གི་མགོན་ཡིན།་then བླ་མ་མེད་པའི་སྔ་རོལ་ན་སངས་རྒྱས་ཟེར་བའི་མིང་ཙམ་མེད། – I think this too much lama indebtedness is creating divisiveness, which is not helpful for our nation building.
Why I am talking to you?
To me you are an insignificant piece of s…But my anger towards your narrow mindedness, stupidity and arrogance motivates me to write, so those well-intentioned like Kunchoks will feel that there are lot many Tibetans – the silent majorities are not giving up on Tibet. I CAN NOT and WILL NOT give up on my vision of optimistic, open, tolerant, Independent Tibet. Between me and my children and students, we will live to fight another good 80 to 90 years for our Tibet.
JN is doing it, Lukar Jam is doing. Many others are doing it. I think all others should do it. Stay positive, don’t let turncoat, black sheep,50-cents army who come here to depress others to influence you. The value of the opinion of people like NG and White is equivalent to the toilet that I use to wipe my ass. Others should treat them the same. Happy Holidays, JN la and all others. Bod Gyalo.
@White: I think you are over playing the significance of yourself and entire exile community. Tibetans inside Tibet might not share your negativity towards China. Having said that, your assessment is right on spot regarding “exiles sees nothing but negativity to China”. I can attest the fact from social media post and inter-personal as well as group settings casual or serious talk. However, the fact is they cannot change the situation because it reveals their own type of brainwashing and close-mindedness. I am not blaming you for this, having not being born there, having fairy tale like stories from your parents, and drawing mountains and yaks when you were in your childhood. I think you are victim of that type of propaganda and sadly no one can help.
It is a fact, development in China proper lifted up millions of people including Tibetans. It did not happen on its own, it happened and still growing on a humongous tidal wave due to the skill and foresight of its leaders. If China is in bad shape, of course Tibetans will be in bad state too. Of course, you will accuse China for purposely not developing Tibet too. There are so many failed countries in the world, for goodness sake, China is not a failure despite its despotic and autocratic one party rule. Therefore, your argument is more emotional than rational. All this development is done in 35 years which nobody achieved so far! India became a democratic country on August 15, 1947, still lagging behind abysmally! Until recently, they cannot even built proper infrastructure in Montawang, the contested area! Tibet autonomous region was independent from 1913-1949, look at the poverty! That is not something proud of or proud of showing around to prove your point of independence! During the same period, there were no literary activities!
I did not claim entire Tibetans are happy, because for that we need a research. I can confidently say, many of them just satisfied with the level of progress and convenience in life. I did not say all troubles in Tibet caused by Dalai clique! I have said the notion of Tibetan independence for all provinces of Tibet was actually created in exile and exported into Tibet! The project started with creation of government whose members selected from all regions equally regardless of numbers of population from each specific region of cultural Tibet. Of course, UTsang were people in majority especially Toepas! Also selected two members from each religious sect including Bonpos to do away with erstwhile religious wars and feuds! Especially Bonpos were considered devils and ghost by Buddhist since Pakistani Padma Sambava in 8th century, with such a luck even Bonpos got official recognition. This was brilliantly done. Then created a unifying date to celebrate by mourning, it is March 10th, 1959! Hello, Kham and Amdo had the climax of rebellion in 1958, not 1959! The rebellion was neither for political reasons of independence, but more response so CCP’s so called democratic reforms which they already carried out in Han Chinese societies! By the way, all Amdos neither governed by Tibetan government nor entire amdo had a single government to rally around. It was true for Khampas as well. Exiles used common religious, linguistic, and ethnic sentiments to galvanize and provoke sentiments of unitary independent state before 1949! That what I meant!
The piece of Tibetan phrase you cited is way to phrase how vast the ethnic groups spread and expanse of its culture. It never had any political connotation as exiles use. It is a cultural one. You missed all my statistics and actual demographic of Tibetan cultural world. So, I have nothing to say and you can keep arguing! However, I suggest you to read a book titled as “We Tibetans” by Rinchen Lhamo and her English husband (wrote in 1905) published in 1985 by Tibetan women married to English spy, Dartsedo had 50% Tibetan and 50% Chinese population! Can you imagine by now?
There were protests in Tibet, so was in China. There were a lot of problems. Of course, it should and normal for a country with 1.3 billion people with different ethnic cultures! If in exile there exist troubles within a homogenous society, what can you expect there? Even in most free country like America, there are tons of problems. The self immolation started from monastery called Kirti and majority is from that area or that monastery whose sister monastery is Dharamsala based kirti monastery on the Mcloed Ganj hillside! It is where CCP seriously used misguided policy! I don’t think they will change policy anytime soon either. It is a sad situation, but exiles with all the noises cannot change the situation either! 100% of slogans were calling for return of Dalai Lama! Some voiced for equality of language! Few voiced for freedom, and even less voiced for independence! So what can we do? Can we change the situation? Of course not, that is why you have internal bickering! In the name of democracy, you attack Dalai Lama as religious right and of course provoking an answer from Dalai Lama as he being hurt for dedicating more 70 years of sincere service for Tibet and Tibetan, and raising bunch of ungrateful folks! JN famously wrote “under the banyan tree, nothing grows”! Now under “JN’s enlightened tree, grows naive activist from the armchair, but no substance”! You attack CTA for changing their name despite they were pressured by Indian host! Now TYC is going down the shit hole and shutting down couple of chapters few years back and now the victim is RTYCNYNJ! Of course, JN’s TNC will get more members! Haha….That’s it! I don’t even see JN or his boys even doing anything substantial that China will take you seriously! This is the perfect time when the Banyan tree is falling; you should come out and make yourself noticed and relevant. Otherwise, his declaration is misplaced and deceitful! As I declared earlier, TYC or TNC, the brilliant strategy is “waiting for implosion of China”! Let me wish you good luck again!
Let me inform you a new development, this will seriously undermine you project! Owing to development of China as whole and Tibetan regions in particular, there are less people coming to Dharamsala! So schools are getting empty and monasteries are getting empty too! Now the strategy of organizations (I don’t know if this is CTA or Gangden Podrang’s strategy or Dalai Lama’s advice), they are getting a lot of non Tibetans but designated in a dignified way as “Himalayan people who share the same culture and religion with Tibetan” in our schools! Monasteries rushing to remote part of Nepal where there hardly exists basic necessity for life and scavenging for children to be taught religion and culture by bringing into monasteries and schools in India! I hope this will help out some times during the war of words between Beinjing and Dharamsala! As far as I know, Tibetans in exile produced no scholar in Tibetan language or literature! These people can hardly speak in a pure Tibetan without aid from foreign language! They are best half boiled either in Tibetan or English! Majority cannot even write a proper letter in Tibetan because they parrot the answers to questions and if possible even cheat in Tibetan exam! What can I say for such freedom activist! The reality is really sad one! Most of them are proud to declare that they don’t know Tibetan properly, but became shy to declare poor in English! Hilarious, dudes!
Worst of all, you guys still believe Buddhism is the bedrock of Tibetan civilization, despite the contrary! The bloody wars of Buddhist against Bonpos were erased and destroyed! You still believe in an India Sadhu who preached a reformed version of Hinduism! By the way, Sadhu himself was reincarnation of lord Vishnu! You believe Tibetan scripts came from India despite Tibetan civilization stretch back to 5000 years! What a sick people! I never met an individual claiming their entire civilization and language came from a foreign land! This is your feat! Self glorifying in illusion and delusion!
Let me summarize gist of my postings:
1. Height of foreign support for Tibetan cause is gone for various reasons.
2. Tibetans are outnumbered by mainly Han Chinese and other ethnic groups too.
3. Due to the rise of China, His Holiness has no access to platform, even to apolitical one such as religious or educational.
4. With this shrinkage of space, coverage about Tibet is getting less and less.
5. Meanwhile, proponents of rangzen led by JN could not come with an alternative plan to grab the attention!
6. There is a brewing internal fight in exile over difference of ideologies in face of China’s intransigence.
7. Exiles eagerly and anxiously waiting something dramatic will unfold in Tibet, but such thing on a vast scale to happen is remote.
8. Even China became democratic, Tibetan independence will be beaten at the ballot box!
My solution for current situation:
Tibetans inside should understand that exile Tibetans are toothless. They might accuse China of cultural and linguistic genocide, surprisingly they themselves indulges in the same genocide but employ dignified accuse of “Tibetan is difficult or we live in different countries or we don’t give a shit attitude!”! Any friction in Tibet is a sacred cow for exiles to milk cash or status! Some ask for donation and make rich, some willfully lie to get refugee or asylum status! This is a sad fact! Then how to solve this problem! Placing hope in exiles is the greatest misplaced hope. They cannot do anything, in fact they place hope in you to take the fight so they can inform the world! So, you have to learn how to work within the system and get some adjustment from sillies to most serious one! It all depends on how China is changing and how you use the system for your advantage!
NG
238
You might have thought you made some valid points to authenticate Rangzen struggle and people like JN and his followers but in fact you disgraced them further with your senseless argument and foul language.
NG may be a Tibetan or Chinese agent but he is doing his job, to promote CCP propaganda. If he is a Tibetan I am sure he don’t feel himself as Chinese irrespective of what he is saying.
Why my long post not published? Reasonably argued!
NG
And you are moralizing? Are you the one who threaten JN of spasming his blog and did resort to it when you don’t get your way?
Is it it ironic in our community, people tend to moralize the most tend to be the more corrupt – both morally and otherwise?
Whether you guys agree or not, religion is a personal matter of perception and it is not going to help to free Tibet or help for longevity of HH Dalai Lama. Tenshug offering to any Lama is a clear waste of Tibetan resources and our precious time. I am not sure, how long we have to live in a world where blind faith is our only solution for any Tibetan cause.
In the spirit of Christmas, I will say that NG is more logically coherent in his argumentation than some on this board. It wasn’t always so. There was a time when he was so reactive, he’d say things like, “go stuff(not just a single statue, but the whole) alter in your mom’s pussy.” Not sure if the change is a sign of further education and maturity, or the fear of getting banned from JN’s blog. Haha.
Happy Holidays everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN5x6gwXKrA
243
I will tell you this you have more commonality with Chinese than Tibetans. You are half way there already, why not go all the way?
Not believing in religion is your personal right and nobody is complaining about it. Believing in religion is also personal right so you should not complain.
I always strongly feel that Tibetan need to be freed from two clutches – PRC and fraud lamas; later being more urgent than the former. Tibetan Buddhism is the most profound and glorious, but it’s not completely uncontaminated also. To some, great or least, extant, it is contaminated with quite a lot of fraud self-serving Rinpoches and Lamas. Exposing fraud lamas to their dirty self-serving color is a sacred purification service to Buddha Dharma from this contamination – greatest service to preserve Buddhism in its pure crystal form. Buddhism is undoubtedly a must needed gem for upcoming Tibetan generation; but let’s hand over a purified version to them.
244
Based on my experience in this blog, may be NG was singing a song based on music played by people on this blog.
244
Based on my experience in this blog, may be NG was singing a song based on the music played by people on this blog.
You mean your brother NG ? How did you become so tongue-tied against NG? Where is your ferocity that you unleashed on poor Dogyal posters? And, still you call others – sell out to China, while you are the one KNOCKING on the gate to let you in!
To borrow from Ted Cruz’s remark, it is exactly like Arsonists ( white and NG) – the twin lost at birth and reunited through JN blog – standing besides the firefighters.
Read Dr. Faustus and you the Umae Lam crap will know what your getting into? Did you know a thing called Faustian deal? F you.
I am not trying to criticize HH Dalai Lama but this is a factual statement made by our leader. On one hand, he says, I am not reicarnation of Buddha or any other higher beings, I am just a human being said in a CNN interview with Christine Amanpour. On the other hand, he says his next reincarnation could be a female successor in Phayul news. Not only this, he has recognized many reincarnated Lamas such as Panchen Lama, Karmapa, Dromo Geshe etc.etc. This kind of statements make confusion in Lamaism world. In real Buddhist world, reincarnation is not exist. Read heart suttra and analyze yourself.
I think we don’t have any debate on this very subject becuase everything we do is blind faith and superstition and this stigma will remain with us for many years. We have been brought up and taught us this way in our schools and communities.
@250 You are against the Dalai Lama and Karmapa. But you haven’t spoken about Trijang rinpoche who has given up his monastic vows?
Jamphel la: You keep bringing Drmo Geshe Rinpoche. While other names are quite prominent, can you tell us something about the prominence of this particular lama who I have never heard before ?
Also, what is the meaning of Gurestang? The name sound ver familiar, but more I reflect on it, it is taking me to the pranks we as kids play on people who are bald headed by calling them Gure. Just curious.
Regarding the issues you raised, I concur with many of the points you raised. I think more and more our people get educated, this issue will resolve itself. Some very prominent lama like Drayab Rinpoche has spoken about the need for disbanding this lama reincarnation business.
@jamphel: Buddhist sutras don’t talk about reincarnation? Are you kidding? If you are from Nepal, you probably embarrassed yourself by prostrated to a place called སྟག་མོ་ལུས་སྦྱིང་ (The Liones fed her body to the hungry Cubs). If not from Nepal, you propabaly studied in school! There are other numerous stories like Lord Buddha born as rabbit or a dude who decimated a killed intended to kill 500 folks out of great compassion. These are required reading of Buddhist worldwide which is called Jakarta tales! Whether true or not is different case, it is supposed to convey some basic Buddhist concept about morality or more profound concept like compassion. It is true Tibetans developed a tradition of recognizing incarnations and it got institutionalized. It does not mean Buddhist don’t believe in incarnations, all Buddhist do believe incarnation, even Hindus believe in incrNation, for them lord Buddha is the incarnation of lord Vishnu. The question is, you don’t make a stupid statement because you don’t know.!by saying this,!i do neither support charlatan lamas and messy historical baggage it carries, especially womanizer Pakistani Padma Sambava and his cohorts onslaught of native believes and important figures. By the way, all the so called great masters of Nalanda from AryanDeva to Vasubandu, performed miracles to combat wrong believers in great debate and they took birth or rebirth in different forms. These are you taught and accepted true in Buddhist cannons.!so don’t tell me it is not existed as a religious literature if you don’t know!
NG
252.
Though I don not believe in reincarnation at all but I know that Dromo Geshe Rinpoche is highly respected Lama in our blind faith based community. He is a Gelugpa and head of Dungkar Gonpa at Dromo in Tibet and one in Darjeeling and one in Kalimpong. HH Dalai Lama has good relation with this previous Lama and recognized this present Lama.
Guretsang means waiting hope nest. This is a family name I am not proud of keeping but our culture is more important.
But one thing I don’t understand is about Trijang Rinpoche. There are many many Tibetan hate him as being a Shugden worshiper but we keep singing his gift to the Tibetan which is our “National Anthem”. He wrote and composed in 1950s. I have high respect to the previous one. He educated HH Dalai Lama for many years and today HH is investing all to the world and made him famous.
Thanks, Jampal la.
@253 Previous Trijang rinpoche was the most reputed scholar (Buddhism “Geluk school” and Tibetan literature) of his generation but also the most controversial figure of the time as he started this whole deity messy controversies through his inflammatory teachings and publication.
Jampal Guretsang’s concerns are something I’ve also raised, or more like, railed against, on few occasions. However in the heat of my self-righteous atheist admonitions and invidious distinctions, some salient points of ‘superstition’ may have been over looked.
I’ve heard from a friend that the Karmapa, every now and then, would gave free medical checkups to hundreds of poor people in India, and my parents told me that in some of those Dalai Lama monasteries, the donated money is charitably distributed to the needy on a daily basis. No more Tibetan Buddhism in some sense could also mean no more money. You think the struggle is hard now, try struggling without money.
Odds are good charlatans abound in Tibetan Buddhism, still, for every 20 Sakyong Miphams, you are liable to find one Tenzin Delek Rinpoche; by all accounts, a good and decent human being who genuinely served others without expectations of returns; a most unnatural instinct incompatible with the greater number of self-serving human animal.
By the law of Evolution via natural selection, a trait which no longer serve an organism is lost over time. If we were to extrapolate such an axiom onto the current Tibetan social evolution there is no way Tibetan Buddhism can be seen as a useless trait; infact, the opposite hypothesis might be truer — that it’s essential in our current predicament. To give up a perfectly serviceable trait, such as an eye (or Buddhism in exile) without a comparable trade-off is surely not species sustaining; rather, it has the finality of lemmings jumping off cliffs. lol For now, we may have to swallow the good with the bad.
Contrary opinions are always welcome.
JAMPAL GURETSANG 250 –
Jampal, let me clear your confusion in your comment 250. There are two things in an erudite man’s words – literal/plain (Dang dhon) meaning and interpretative meaning (Ngai dhon. When a learned like His Holiness says something, first we need to determine under which it falls – whether literal or interpretative. Literal are intended for some kinds of targets, while interpretative are aimed for some other objectives. That’s why Buddha words in Sutra are filled with many contradictions here and there. H.H’s statements like; “he is not a reincarnation of higher beings; he is just a simple ordinary beings” are not meant to be taken literally in its plain meaning. This is aimed to a specific audience with a specific objective. I believe, if I am not wrong, this sorts of statement are meant for non-Buddhist audience in west and elsewhere. Because he know that this works well to transform them for betterment. Now, his statement like “he may reincarnated as a female, and having recognized many lamas including Karmapa” is more related to China, Tibet issue and Tibetan culture. These contradicting statements are originated from a same person but directed to different directions for different purposes. And this very skill is unique and place him at rare among rarest – an extraordinary skill which only Buddha and highly realized beings can possessed. You should learn to distinguish between lateral and interpretative meanings. Buddha once even said Mom and Dad are mean to be killed. Does this means – are we supposed to take it literally, and go and kill parents..????
Presence of contradictions in words is a unique characteristic of Buddha and realized beings which we don’t find in just scholars and learned person’s words. Scholars are primarily focused on propounding principles and ideologies, and exposing realities and truth, whereas Buddha and realized beings are much above these ideologies business. Primarily they are focused on how, what way and method is the best to serve beings for immediate and ultimate benefits. So situations may demand him to say contrary, depending on kinds of subjects he encounter under different circumstances. No wonder if we find His Holiness’s words contradicting here and there. Don’t get shocked..!!
So,Jampal, no wonder that you are confused..!
Kunchok la:
Thanks for the explanation of the concepts of Dang Dhon and Ngai Dhon.
Now help us explanation His Holiness outburst against a parliamentarian ( Karma Choephell ) for speaking his mind in the parliament. How should we perceive it – as Dang or Ngai Dong ? Will be very helpful.
253
You wrote,
“There are many many Tibetan hate him as being a Shugden worshiper but we keep singing his gift to the Tibetan which is our “National Anthem”.”
You should think twice before you make such a baseless comment. No Tibetans hate Kabje Trijang Rinpoche. I am talking about His Holiness’s junior tutor. All the Tibetans have deepest respect for him as one of the most prominent scholars of our time and his contribution to Tibetan society both secularly and spiritually. I have never seen and heard any Tibetan saying negative about Kabje Trijang Rinpoche. Most Tibetans disagree with Trijang Rinpoches worshiping of Shugden which is literally inherited to him by his root guru Kabje Phabongka Rinpoche. This disagreement does not define Tibetans attitude towards Trijang Rinpoche and certainly does not equate to “hate”.
Buddhism in general is very profound teaching and especially Tibetan Buddhism so called complete package. To maintain this profound teaching, it requires people, who dedicated their life to study, practice and promote. Tibetan Lamas and monks have done just that for over a thousand years. People tend to take for granted when things are available readily in their hand. It is laughable to think I know Buddhism just by reading some English translated Buddhist books. How many people here read Sakya Legshey By Sakya Pandita Kunga Gyaltsen one of the forefathers of Sakya Tradition? This book was composed by one of greatest Lamas of Tibetan Buddhism almost a thousand years ago. This book gives me pride and inspiration as a Tibetan, the fact that this book is written a thousand year ago.
Many Tibetans have problem with Lamas and monks in our society which symbolizes Tibetan Buddhism. I have good news for you guys. Lamas and Monks in our society are declining right before our own eyes. Most likely the monks and Lamas we see today could be the last badge. Once Bhutanese, Ladakhis, and all Himalayans region people stop sending their kids to monasteries, that will be the end of monks and Lamas in our society. This will be the case at least in our exile life.
Let me quote Kunchok,before adding my concern:
“I believe JN is a true patriot Tibetan. His continuous care to Tibetan society despite having numerous charges and backlashing against him from right groups proves he is a true patriot. There are some CTA officials who says they don’t care reading JN’s writings. I just couldn’t help laughing at them. I bet those who says so don’t have level even to understand JN’s writings (if they read them), especially those of his commentaries on international politics. Forget about they writing such pieces at par with JN’s. I am proud that we have at least one intellectual who can give teeth-for-teeth answers to propagandist like Goldstein and N. Ram. Has any CTA official (especially those who don’t read JN’s writings) moved forward to tackle those works which can damage our cause severely if leaves unanswered? None..! Sometimes Tibetan seems so stupid and boneless. We rejoices exceedingly to Wang Lixong, forgetting that no matter how good he may sounds, at the end he is a Chinese who definitely care to China, not Tibet. Jamyang Norbu is a Tibetan, our own blood. No matter how bad he may be, but at the end he will care to Tibet and Tibetan, not China. But it’s seems that coming generation is waking up to this anti-intellectual mind sets of some CTA officials.”
Here is my take:
Remember JN used to be regular guest on Radio Free Asia before the much lamented firing of its first director, Ngabo Jigme, who bore the brunt to censorship from the CTA, and perhaps from the office of the His Holiness. With him went JN too. No Tibetan media dare to solicit his views any more. My sources, tell me, Dharamsala is
directly censoring the content of the Tibetan service broadcasts (Let’s recall what they did to Lungshar and Gedun Choephel in free Tibet!)
There is growing suspicion that RFA management, not the Tibetan service director is in charge and control of it. No wonder the listeners are left with unusually long and live broadcasts of the Mind and Life teachings by His Holiness recently. On the other hands, RFA avoided covering the first North American Chitue debate in Minneapolis. Why? Because it was organized by the local TYC. Hence no wonder they are left with the scribes of Wang Lixong and his Tibetan wife, and Horstang Jigme’s endless compilation of His Holiness’s teaching, book readings of their choice. Is this really what the American government wants the Tibetans to behave with the tax payers money?
I learnt some TYC leaders, while in USA in connection with its New York branch imbroglio
were in DC.FRA management refused to met them, sources claim. Is it also true that VOA made them wait for several years for an interview?
“And this very skill is unique and place him at rare among rarest – an extraordinary skill which only Buddha and highly realized beings can possessed. ” – Kunchok
How extraordinary could such a skill be when you are employing it now without much effort? “Buddha once even said Mom and Dad are mean to be killed.”
I think everyone possesses this most god-like skill, its called bullshitting.
263
Is the material world all there is? Is there anything else exist beside bullshit? Is there anything else exist beside money and power? Is there anything else exist beside myself?
To 260
Your are different from other anti-Shugden advocate who has open minded and logical. But 95% of anti-Shugden followers have refused to accept Trijang Rinpoche as a scholar and a great teacher to many Tulkus and monks. These anti-Shugden have refused to have his picture in their prayer room and regarded as anti- HH Dalai Lama and CTA. Perhaps you remember how Dr. Lobsang and Mr. Penpa Tsering hate Shugden followers saying murderers and Chinese agents in their speech at gatherings of students and communities. These two leaders are highly educated and most experienced in administrating our people but they try to brain wash young Tibetan children. Shugden believers are nothing but blind faith and superstition and anti- Shugden followers are in the same boat. How they have alienated and ostracized our brothers and sisters from our society. This is sadest part of our history.
Do you have any evidence to substantiate your claim, “But 95% of anti-Shugden followers have refused to accept Trijang Rinpoche as a scholar and a great teacher to many Tulkus and monks. These anti-Shugden have refused to have his picture in their prayer room and regarded as anti- HH Dalai Lama and CTA”?
Niether I have Trijang Rinpoches picture in my house nor Ling Rinpoche. I also do not have pictures of many highly revered Lamas in our society. This does not main I have no respect for these great masters.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama himself has Trijang Ringpoche’s picture sitting right next to Ling Rinpoche’s picture in his residence based on his translator Mr. Thupten Jinpa. What does this say? Let me tell you something, if Trijang Rinpoche is alive today and witness all these demonizing protest agaisnt His Holiness by so called Shugden worshipers, Trijang Rinpoche will cry.
Another point to note, Shugden worship does not define Trijang Rinpoche’s greatness. Shugden worship does not define greatness of Lama Tsongkapas teaching either. Shugden worship is inherited to Trijang Rinpoche by his root Guru and Trijang Rinpoche inherited the Shugden worship to His Holiness.
You must admit Shugden followers connection with murder and our enemy China. Is there any Shugden followers who respect Dalai Lama? Why we don’t we see them? Why some of the Shugden followers not show up Dalai Lama’s defense and speak against those monster people who openly denounce Dalai Lama in the name of Shugden worship?
I used to tell Chinese counter parts if all Tibetans in Tibet are happy under Chinese rule and they don’t want to change, why we don’t see any Tibetan inside or outside Tibet protesting against Dalai lama for whatever Dalai lama is doing or saying to regain Tibet from China? This is the evidence whole Tibetans are behind the Dalai Lama. When all shugden worshiper remain silent and say nothing against those corrupted protesters, they put themselve in the same boat. This could be a sadest part of our history not because of His Holiness but because of Shugden worshippers behaviour.
#265#
The current Trijang Rinpoche due to certain ill circumstances was not able to practice under the guidance of H.H. The Dalai Lama. If we look back and think carefully, it is not hard to point our accusation finger towards some of the corrupted Shugden followers and their unthinkable behavior under the influence of their master CCP.
And there are people like you, who go on to extend to tell lies without any evidence to back up the claim. The fact is that the majority of the Tibetans respect Trijang Rinpoche as he was a highly realized spiritual master of H.H. the Dalai lama, and left a deep legacy in the Tibetan people’s mind.
As for me I hate those Shugden followers who committed treacherous crime in Dharamsala, shake hands with the CCP regime and protest against the H.H. the Dalai Lama without any shame. Otherwise for materialistic needs even if they worship evil spirit, it’s fine with me. But it is important to leave the evil spirit in its own place and not to place him above lord Buddha and other great masters.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/todays-winners-may-be-tomorrows-losers/2015/12/25/b4bdfd64-a9a9-11e5-9b92-dea7cd4b1a4d_story.html
To 266 and 267,
I appreciated your discussion on Shugden. I think you both are lacking in epistemology which investigates the origin and nature of Shugden controversy. These Shugden followers were normal and regular Tibetans living in Tibetan settlements without any argument, dispute and disagreement. They were simply following their religious beliefs which practice from generation to generations, although it is blind faith and Lamaism, but suddenly a cyclone of ban swift through our communities and monasteries that changed our Tibetan communities forever.
Anyway, I do not agree with your selective perception or individualistic favouritism which you categorized Trijang Rinpoche as an exceptional. He is not only a teacher to HH Dalai Lama but also a teacher of Geshe Kalsang Gyatso, Lama Thupten Yeshe and many other Lama scholars. Same as Trijang Rinpoche, Geshe Kalsang Gyatso is a teacher of many Tibetan Lamas and Western Lamaism followers. But today, Geshe Kalsang Gystso is a most controversial figure in Shugen, who is anti- HH Dalai Lama, and CTA. He has no intention of alienating himself from our exile Tibetan community. But our leaders have demonized him and created this fragmentation in our exile community.
Your discriminatory and selective idea will create more fragmentation instead of healing. Shugden followers are all same because they worship to the same spirit. All meat eaters are same because they are non-vegetarian. You can’t say he is a vegetarian because he eats only yak meat.
There is a ridiculous article on Tibettimes.net which claims that “There is more demand to learn Tibetan than English among the foreigners”.
“ད་ལྟ་སྐད་ཡིག་གི་ཁྲོམ་རྭ་ཆེ་ཤོས་དབྱིན་ཡིག་དབྱིན་སྐད་མ་རེད་བོད་ཡིག་བོད་སྐད་རེད།”
This is happening only in Tibetan Library at Gangchen Kyishong in Dharamsala. In other parts of the world, interest in Tibetan learning is declining every year, even in Tibetan communities but Amdo in Tibet is a special case.
Just when the fake EC is taking a break or shit or whatever, the fake NyNjTYC UmayLame crazies are back!! (With shame following hot upon their heels.) Why, we must be getting close to March 10th, the hillbillies are starting to descend towards the lowlands.
Why does CTA continually over look the conduct of these lawless, morally depraved sheja brutes with their fake rogue orgs? Or, are they part of some cta Unity Building Program?
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=36935&article=NY%2fNJ+TYC+members+vote+against+TYC+Centrex%27s+decision
Those CTA officials who always paint/caps Tibetan intellectuals (like JN and other independent advocates) as anti- Dalia Lama just to save their own post (bread) knows nothing much about background insight and significant of Middle Way. In Contrast and surprisingly, many independent advocates, though fundamentally they are grounded in RangZen stand, turned out having more knowledge and better understanding of Middle Way than those above mentioned kinds of CTA officials. This is a truth – a strange truth. They (CTA officials) don’t have any their own independent thought other than duplicating of His Holiness’s and Samdong Rinpoche’s quotes. It’s so distressing to see this sad scenario.
I must admit I didn’t see this coming from Samdhong Renpoche. Now would be a good time for our Sikyong “the buck stops here” Sangay to sort this out once and for all and start earning his legacy based on Unity.
https://www.facebook.com/100010798146019/videos/140430906326847/
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=36948&article=RTYC+NY%2fNJ+controversy+a+concern+for+many
261,
That His Holiness’s outburst on Karma Choephel is purely Ngai Dhon – to be taken as said. There, he (K. Choephel) said H.H though speaks of genuine autonomy, but has a hidden agenda of Independent behind- which is too ridiculous. At first, it’s not at all a speaking of his mind at all; it’s rather a speaking of H.H’s mind, that too in an otherwise tune. It’s not an exercise of freedom of speech; rather it’s an attempt to misrepresent H.H’s thoughts to the public. Would you be okay if someone misinterpret your thoughts in otherwise? Not observing CTA’s mandate despite being as a MP is not acceptable. China always accuses Middle way is a disguise of independent. He (K. C) by saying so is validating China’s accusation. Hope I answered you. Tashi Deleck.
Attacking His Holiness and CTA in the name of Independent and Democracy is as bad as attacking independent advocates intellectuals in the name of His Holiness. Such kinds of people belongs to same category – vested interested groups, cancer of society, worse than anything else. We, each one us need to check constantly if there isn’t any danger of falling under this category.
Some detail background information on this suspect called Ngawang Palden of now disbanded RTYC of any/NJ. Very suspicious character. Need to keep an eye on these. Said to be very close to people in Tibet Fund.
Can anyone provide a detail background information on this suspect called Ngawang Palden of now disbanded RTYC of any/NJ?
Very suspicious character. Need to keep an eye on these. Said to be very close to people in Tibet Fund. The second guy Jamphel is suspected to close to Thupten Lungrig? Need more information.
Student for Free Tibet has been made to shutdown by our leaders and CTA and Tibetan Youth has been made to shutdown by CTA. Now, where is our tools to fight our cause, where is our mirage democracy. What is wrong with CTA and our leaders.
@280 It is like a “Mission Creep”.
I must admit I didn’t see this coming from Samdhong Renpoche. Now would be a good time for our Sikyong “the buck stops here” Sangay to sort this out once and for all and start earning his legacy based on Unity.
https://www.facebook.com/100010798146019/videos/140430906326847
My comment from yesterday seems to be awaiting “The Mod!”. lol For some reason, I am not able to send two links together..
Here is another one – about thieves in a daring home invasion who kicked the owners out and refuses to leave, all the while attempting to convince the police that the home owners are the real criminals.
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=36948&article=RTYC+NY%2fNJ+controversy+a+concern+for+many
And another……..
https://www.facebook.com/pema.choegyal/videos/10153837534428914/?theater
Who is that smug, preening peacock Lhasam? Smells like a Shit-disturber.
People,
Beware of this snake,Ngawang Palden, a running dog of CTA,with a huge vested interest for the reward CTA has promised for shutting down TYC. Directly serving China’s interest of TYC closure. We all true patriot Tibetan, whether be it middle wayers or Rangzeners need to unite and trash this man in the strongest means to foil his divisive plan.
@first clean up the theoretical error and structural weakness of TYC. Then talk, being emotional will not help!
NG
Dear Jamyang Norbu,
My name is Pastor Jean Ai and I’m a student of H.E. Tsem Rinpoche. I thought it may interest you to know that Rinpoche recently posted a comment on Facebook and linked back to your article.
Thank you,
Pastor Jean Ai
http://www.tsemrinpoche.com
—–
Mr. Jamyang Norbu is a powerful Tibetan writer and blogger. He is one of the few people who tell the truth about the Tibetan Leadership and what happens within the Tibetan communities. It is a fact that if you disagree with Tibetan Leadership in Dharamsala on any issue, they get you ostracized and then perhaps the crowd against you. That could be dangerous. This is not pleasant but true. Recently with the Tibetan in exiled ‘election’ of the new Prime Minister, they did everything they can to get rid of Lukar Jam who wants corruption to end in Tibetan leadership and unite Tibetans regardless of their spiritual orientation. Indeed a rare breed. This is an excellent article to read. Again I am not interested in politics but this shows clearly how the CTA or Tibetan leadership accepts no opposition in their secular and religious decisons right or wrong, and how my choice of spirituality has brought me problems which should not happen in a real democracy. Since it’s related I post here. So by all means take a look at how unethical Tibetan Leadership is through the eyes of a well known Tibetan writer.
Tsem Rinpoche
(Source: http://on.fb.me/1kNcc5o)
Some cult leader’s praise of Jamyang Norbu la will surely put him in good stead with the Tibetan community. ツ