Someone I know who has just returned from Lhasa sent this to me. It is deeply troubling.
Report from Lhasa: February 18, 2012
I have just returned from Lhasa. Tibetans are disappearing; everyone is terrified about the bloodshed which seems inevitable.
Lhasa consists of approximately 1.2 million Chinese and approximately 200,000 Tibetans. The majority of these Tibetans live in an area which is now almost entirely enclosed by military compounds with walls between 10-16 feet; some with barbed wire. This isolation gives the impression of what the Warsaw Ghetto was like. Inside the “enclosed” area groups of armed soldiers, S.W.A.T. teams, and police patrol the streets 24 hours a day. Military drill songs can be heard throughout the day. S.W.A.T trucks and rows of 6 to 15 armored vehicles and tanks come through the area on a daily basis. Each vehicle has 3 to 4 soldiers at the opening turret, armed with assault rifles or machine guns aimed at the Tibetans.
All Tibetans must carry identification at all times. Tibetans residing in Lhasa are required to register with the police. There are approximately 134 new Police station checkpoints in Lhasa for random searches of pedestrians and vehicles. In addition to the military compounds in and around Lhasa, permanent military posts holding 1-10 armed soldiers have been established throughout the city.
The Kala Chakra Ceremony in November 2011, held in Bodh Gaya, India by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, was attended by approximately 10,000 Tibetans from China. Among these were reportedly 3000 Government informants. The remaining 7000 Tibetans from China, on returning to Tibet via India, Nepal, Hong Kong, etc. were ALL brought to reeducation camps for a minimum of three months. Elderly people begged to go home in the evenings due to the cold, but they were not allowed. In many instances when family members brought blankets for their elderly family, they were told they were no longer there and the authorities didn’t know where they were. Among the 7000 Tibetans in reeducation camps, interrogation from the Chinese police was common practice. Tibetans are made to disclose their jobs (from which they are fired), loose pensions or other such benefits, disclose names of relatives and their contact information, including addresses and professions. Random identification checks and House searches are done; family members are brought in for “questioning”.
Approximately 50 nuns going to a retreat on a bus, were detained and held for questioning after an informant accused them of speaking against the government. Their whereabouts are presently unknown.
A Tibetan artist who painted a Tibetan looking upwards towards a clock above their head, titled “Waiting” was arrested for the symbolism used in the painting.
I was told that many people were taken away by the State Security and don’t come back. They just disappear.
Roadside checkpoints in the Tibetan Autonomous Region are used to keep Tibetans that are not residents of Lhasa, away from the city. In addition, if a monk or nun is in a vehicle the police/soldiers will make them return to their monasteries on foot. All Tibetans riding in such vehicles will have their full identification listed. The Potala Palace is a place of pilgrimage for Tibetans, especially during Losar (Tibetan New Year) but the roadside checkpoints prevent this and limit the number of Tibetans in Lhasa.
Approximately 300-400 monks previously resided at the Potala Palace; today the number is around 36. Soldiers and other military personnel now live in the rooms where the monks used to reside. Although it is listed as a World Heritage site, the Chinese government now uses the Potala as a military post. A large Military complex is situated within several blocks. The nunnery, located across from grounds before the Potala Palace, now has Military bunkers.
Jokhang Monastery has such a large military presence in and around the area that you have to be careful not to bump into soldiers and police as they crowd the streets of the surrounding market when they go on patrol.
Drepung Monastery was home to 7 to 10,000 monks now has only between 500-700. A hunger strike of 100 monks is said to be underway.
Sera Monastery once had approximately 6,000 monks now has 200-300 monks. Sera Monastery is surrounded by police stations and military compounds. Soldiers and police constantly patrol the grounds of the monastery, including where the monks debate.
Norbulingka Palace has between 6-10 monks from almost 300 in the past. The Dalai Lama’s small personal menagerie has been sold to a Chinese businessman and a separate admission is charged to see the animals, although the entire Norbulingka park is listed as a World Heritage site.
Please send this report to anyone who can help, especially US government officials, newspapers, humanitarian organizations, etc.
Thank you for your help!
117 Replies to “Report From Lhasa”
Thanks for posting, this is saddening and terrifying.
I have never felt this helpless in my life,the last few years have been very difficult and I cannot even imagine how difficult it is for our people in Tibet.
These are difficult times for our people in Tibet,crucial times for us to take a stand and uncomfortable days in Dharamsala.
I have shed enough useless tears and the same goes for the prayers,petitions and demonstrations work with willing partners…so what do we do now?
I can not understand the policy of China. If they really want control Tibet they should try to make Tibetan happy and Tibetan people may think that they are happy under Chines administaion. But if they treat like this with Tibetans, it may be impossible for Tibetan to stay with Chinese. I hope this political leader of Chines may gain more wisdom and treat well with Tibetans. The history of world say by force nothing can be control longer.
May these political leader gain more wisdom and treat better with Tibetan and Leave peaceful with all different communities .
I am devasted, sitting here peacefully, in my hut near the Gompa at Chenrezig Institute in QLD….I feel so helpless, at a loss as to what to do next to help…Free Tibet…I want to be there I’m a photographer and my mission, other than helping Tibetans where I can would be to document this unbelievable wrongdoings…China please WHY??
This is sickening and terrifying ! We must know that this is the direct result of the appeasement policy towards china and actually OUR appeasement stance when dealing with our democratically elected polticians and governments.
In 2008 when Tibetans in Tibet sacrificed themselves, were raped, tortured and killed, we hit the streets, we shook the chinese and their friends in high places.
The appeasers got the upper hand on us and we STOPPED !
Since then Tibetans in Tibet KNOW that they are alone. They know that NO ONE is coming to help them. This has led to the self immolations.
We all failed them in 2008 !
This is the time to do something for them. Not just talk and spread the bad news.
Tibetans in Tibet don´t need our sympathy, tears or prayers.
Tibetans need us to ACT ! NOW !
Tibetan culture is the greatest culture on earth. The world needs the Tibetans. Please, I hope and pray that this tragedy takes a positive turn soon.
China please WHY??
They’re their own worst enemies with their comparisons of Tibetans with Native Americans. (Can’t they even see how badly this analogy backfires on them?) And their actions prove that they are ultimately in favor of Tibetan independence. They make it inevitable.
”Norbulingka Palace has between 6-10 monks from almost 300 in the past. The Dalai Lama’s small personal menagerie has been sold to a Chinese businessman and a separate admission is charged to see the animals, although the entire Norbulingka park is listed as a World Heritage site.”
This is so tragically sad. I had the good fortune to visit Norbulingkha privately often in 1993 when it was in the care of late Geshe Yeshe Wangchuk. His Holiness 13th Dalai Lama’s retreat house is in there, where he had done 3 year Yamantaka retreat-there is/was an apple tree outside which reportedly he was able to pick the fruit from the 2nd floor retreat room window. The out-buildings on the park grounds also have many mural paintings. And of course the main Norbulingkha estate house is of profound religious and cultural historical significance.
Thanks for this timely first hand report!
thanks jamyang lak !!!
My aunt and some cousins came back from the Kalachakra and were neither harassed nor put in any re-education camps. Please, no need to incite panic! While this can be true for some areas, it is not the rule.
Kalsang, are your few relatives a better illustration of the rule? And isnt the described situation in Lhasa and its evolution reminding you of dreadful past scenarios elsewhere? Panic is not good, but your comment is to the benefit of chinese allegations of “it s really not bad”
Kalsang when you say “your aunt came back” are you talking from Lhasa? Maybe she was among govment infomants. Please ask her.
Kalsang could be Xiang liu chang! in action.
What can we do now?
Lets call our leaders in Dharamsala – Kalon Tripa, Chitue Tsokcho, the kalons including Samdhong Rinpoche, to be out on the streets to lead mass protest rallies in the world capital cities and denounce on the top of their voice whats happening in Tibet, and dont give a shitt about what Obama or Hu Jintao think might think of our actions, and start developing ‘pressure’ from ground up.
Ask ourselves when was the last time our Kalons, Chitue, or a dept secretary joined protest rally against China? It’s time for them to get out of their offices and stop acting like leaders of a free country, voicing guarded opinions so as to not anger China even when Tibetans are being slaughtered like animals, many taking shocking steps like self-immolations due to grave urgency.
It’s elementary that in condemning the life and death situation in Tibet, TGIE should carry the flag and lead the protest, not SFT or TYC or any individual. And for the protest rallies to have even a small teeth, it should be carried out on the street, connecting with common people,galvanizing their support and sympathy and thus expanding the support base. Not by pleading to world leaders or capitulating to Hu Jintao’s demands or worry what Obama or China might think of our actions – this has never workd nor it will ever. This is what we could do and what we must do and what have left to do. We need to radically change our game plan.
Dont believe on what kalsang has written as she could be chinese Or chinese informant in tibetan disguised name.But its really saddening situation…may peace prevail on tibet real soon….
No government is Looking after our Tibetan people. They belonh to humanity like our head belongs to our body. If we, the people of the world won’t look after them, we may fail our biggest test, the ultimate test of our age. Will we choose money and comfort, will we look on to a kind of crucifixion in slow motion or will we do what it takes to protect our head from the claws of a power-driven raptor. With this I don’t even mean the Chinese, ay least not exclusively. For where would be their influence were it not for the globally prevailing dominance of profit. Also, I believe violent actions are the problem and can never be a solution. Dedicated work to raise mass awareness IN THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY and all tools of civil actions like consumer boycotts, pressure on politicians, strikes, rallies, but most importantly: Getting more and more numbers of people. That brought the Berlin Wall down and that can help the Tibetans.
Jamyang Norbu la, Thank you so much for retrieving this information. I am sure it is the need of an hour for the the world to hear the inhuman treatment meted out for Tibetans under Chinese occupation.
I have no doubt Kalsang being an informant of Chinese for posting what China exactly want to hear. Fuck you whoever is this Kalsang.
Now what we can do? We did ceaseless fasting under the empty sky, we did vigils across the world but to no avail, we shouted and raised slogans until the cloud burst for many years. We shed tears until our eyes are bruised and almost to the blindness, we dreamed about Free Tibet in broad day light and in night’s deep sleep for generations. Now what we can do?
Tell me is it the Faith in ourselves that keeps us moving ahead for a free tibet or is the beginning or the end of our Dream for a free tibet? We are feeling desperate at this moment, so is it the only thing we are left to be with ourselves? Now what we can do?
If the truth and god are the one and the only inseparable thing? Then where is the god for us? Where is the answer for the question of our Truth? What is happening to the countless prayers we offered for God to free our country? I hope we don’t become atheist anytime soon! Now what we can do?
I agree with your view. How about March to TIBET from Dharamsala?. I think tibetan inside Tibet calling for much much stronger action than just protest in Dharamsala or any other place, I think THE TIBETAN GOVERNMENT IN EXILE can lead the protest more effective.
Violence = madness
It is so shocking that such thing is happening in 21st century and going literally unnoticed throughout the world (I guess the world knows it yet looking at the other side!) Somehow the world history is repeating…when I read the article it seemed to me that I am reading something about Jews under the Nazis during Second World War.
Now coming to the point I do share the feelings of other Tibetan right now ….frustration, urgency, anger, relentless, and mostly helplessness. But to all my Tibetan brothers and sisters, this is not the time to be carried away by our emotional impulse. We cannot afford ourselves to such a luxury when our brothers and sisters in Tibet are really undergoing the real crucifix. This is the time to be fortified in whatever field one is involved, this is the time to be reconfirmed in our tibetaness, this is the time to be cool headed and concentrated, this is the time to be courageous enough to bear fire inside and not letting even puff of smoke outside, this is the time to show Chinese government that we (Tibetan) are still alive and flourishing, this is the time to bear the dawn with full dignity and preparation for the sun to rise. And Yes! our brothers and sisters in Tibet are pushed to limit yet they are arising with assertiveness and courage. Chinese government are losing hope to govern Tibet so it explains all their arms and force against empty yet raising hands of Tibetan. Bod Gyalo.
NO ACTION= DEATH
for too long its been madness. maybe, its time to open eyes and say this madness has to stop!
IF freedom and independence is the goal, there is nothing more important than achieving that goal. Lets cut the BS on ‘yarap sangchoe’ then.
CCP goal is to keep Tibet under its arm, Some are here to push their national interest,For Tibetan,the goal set should be achieved however.
Dear Jamyang-la, as this post is very disturbing, I wonder if you could please offer any further information regarding the credibility of the source or attempts to verify some of these claims?
Thank you, and joining millions in prayers for peace.
As a Tibetan-American,and a citizen of the United States of America,I am devastated and absolutely ashamed of my weak-kneed government for not being able to stand up for Tibet and the Tibetans where the very same principles of equality,human rights,freedom that the United States of America so firmly and proudly believes and shows off is being crushed under the hatefully marching boots of the communist Chinese brainless,senseless soldiers in the heart land of Tibet. I am equally ashamed of the rest of the world leaders,especially ashamed of the world’s leading nations for not doing enough for Tibet. I am also ashamed of the governor of Iowa,as well as state police of Iowa who kept us hidden away from Xi Jinping at the state capital during his recent visit to Iowa.The governor of Iowa deprived us of our freedom of speech,and freedom of expression.He made state of Iowa look like a city in China where its citizens are forever deprived of any freedom at all.
Today is supposed to be a joyous day for the Tibetans.Look;what we are left up against?
If China thinks their evil destruction will weaken our struggle for Tibetan Independence,I think, they are sadly mistaken.
My Tibetan brothers and sisters,let us not be hateful.But built your inner strength for we are going to need it ever more from now on for we have Tibetan independence to win back from the thieves in Beijing.
Save your tears my dear brothers and sisters,for we are going to need it when we reunite with our brothers and sisters in Tibet in an “Independent-Tibet”.
Remember ! :)”SEE YOU NEXT IN TIBET”.
Dear Tenor la,believe me,it is the beginning of the beginning of our dreams to come true.”TIBET WILL BE FREE”.Tibet’s dreams will only be lost on the day we give it up.Not until then.So keep up the spirit.BODH-ANGZEN!!!
(Thank you Jamyang la for your tireless work Tibet will remember you)
I cannot reveal the name of the person who sent this report to me. But I am absolutely convinced of the overall truthfulness of the report. The person is not a journalist or expert and much of the report is based on personal impressions and what the person heard from others.
I posted the report as sent to me and did not make changes to the figures provided, and readers should recheck them. For instance, although it does seem to the Tibetans in Lhasa that they are surrounded by more than a million Chinese in the city, the actual figures are less.
Nonetheless, no other than the poet and blogger Woeser-la posted this report on her blog, after adjusting some of the figures. Since she was personally in the Holy City just few months ago, that should validate the authenticity of the overall account. Woeser-la has even included some photographs of the security seige of Lhasa. Check it out JN
Small amounts of admirable assistance notwithstanding, in 1949 America and India, in order to further their own ambitions, sold Tibet into slavery. After six decades of letting Tibet suffer, it’s high time we both repaid our debt.
Wikipedia gives Lhasa population 2009 as 1,100,123. PRC scholar Bao Dong wrote in 2007 that the Lhasa population was increasing dramatically each year and that at the time of his writing, the floating population alone was over 200,000–that was 5 years ago. None of these figures account for the military.
In 2005, the TAR Statistical Bureau estimated that the portion of the floating population from outside the TAR that had resided in the TAR for six months or more came to 7% of the officially registered population, double the number from five years before. If the floating population doubles in 5 years, it could be 400,000 or more now even by PRC math.
Wikileaks cable CHENGDU 00000298 gives:
“Congenoffs riding the Qinghai-to-Tibet train in March 2007 were told that 80% of passengers on their packed train going into Tibet were laborers going to work in the TAR, another 10 to 15 percent were military
or police, and the remainder were Chinese and foreign tourists.”
Chinese state sources give Lhasa population as anywhere from “257400” to “500,000” and many other figures–none of this counting migrant workers, government workers from outside Tibet, or military. Safe to say if the government itself has no clue, and with no clear definition of what even counts as “Lhasa” anymore, the rest of us can be forgive for not having an exact figure.
This article is also up at the Rangzen Alliance website where I posted the following comment:
Please note that a Chinese translation of this article is available at the 说, 还是不说? website as well as at Woeser’s blog. Woeser has added a note at the beginning of the essay which readers should take into consideration. I translate it here:
In order to understand the actual state of affairs in Lhasa we should state that this report on recent conditions in Lhasa is basically true. However, two points need explanation:
1. “Lhasa consists of approximately 1.2 million Chinese and approximately 200,000 Tibetans.” This sentence is pretty close to reality with regard to the number of Tibetans, but “1.2 million Chinese” is obviously too many. Even if this number includes the number of military troops in Lhasa, it still seems to be too many.
2. “Among these were reportedly 3000 Government informants. The remaining 7000 Tibetans from China… were ALL brought to reeducation camps for a minimum of three months.” In this sentence the statement that 3,000 people were informants is really an exaggeration. And the Tibetans brought for reeducation were all Lhasa Tibetans. At present we have no information regarding whether Tibetans from Kham and Amdo who were returning from the Kalacakra were sent for reeducation or not. So there cannot have been 7,000 Tibetans sent for reeducation. The figures that I heard were upwards of 1,000. As for whether or not the period of their subjection to reeducation is to be as long as three months, I’ve had no such information. But according to what is known, it’s to last until the end of this March.
First of all, thank you Jamyang la for posting this plea.
Ideally speaking, when writing an article it would be important to have the correct facts and figures and sources indexed, but the grave situation that exists in Tibet and especially with hordes of Chinese and treacherous Tibetan lackeys combing through every nook and cranny for “splitist”, some unintentional overemphasis may creep into the plea. And mind you this piece was not an article for publication but a sincere plea by a concerned native to exiled Tibetans. Therefore, at this point in time it is irrelevant to argue about how many Chinese are in Tibet and how many Tibetans are sent for political re-education. Taking the perspective of Greater Tibet, We know for a fact there are millions of Chinese in Tibet and that Tibetans from every strata of life are under duress and threat directly or indirectly from the Chinese. So for just this once please stop playing the numbers game! It is bad enough, that we are being torn apart by traitors and Chinese hoodlums, that we have to dissect every morsel of information for accuracy, facts and figures.
THE GHOST OF “DALAI CLIQUE”
China’s ghost the “Dalai clique” is in action again
Echoing through the crowds and stirring up fire
And the Chinaman is at a loss how to fight a spirit
Rising like smoke from an unkempt chimney stack
The only time you can fight a “demon” to win
Is when you realize they emanate out of self;
From the wicked plots and devilish justifications:
Falsely claiming, “Tibet always belonged to China”.
No nation lives long enough to reign over another
Specially employing the worst hurt on Tibet
Your once calm, peaceful friendly neighbor;
A dagger in the back is not “Peaceful Liberation”.
Take heed for evil empires have come and gone,
Gang raping, sodomizing and looting the land
And shattering the natural harmony that was
Will destroy your core lowlands none too soon.
And all we have to do really is to wait calmly
For you to implode and shatter your dogma;
Your guilt, cluelessness and super-arrogance
The fuse that you lit unconsciously in March
Really just can not understand the stupid policy of Chinese Communist Party.
If they really want control Tibet they should try to make Tibetan people happy.
Make friends with HH the 14th Dalai Lama, release the captured Panchen Lama and they’d have no problems; why are the Han CCP so stupid?!
Obviously they want to continue the genocide and wipe Tibetans away from Tibet and permananetly occupy.
But luckily more normal Chinese are converting to Tibetan Buddhism, so in time CCP will die and live in the 18 Hell realms themselves for a few aeons!
Reading through this article was arduous, not because of the seemingly Sad situations mentioned in the article, but it’s really hard to digest some of the factual errors and the blatantly exaggerated numbers. Pretending to be an academia and writing a comprehensive report like this based completely on rumors is a very dangerous work and also highly discouraging sometimes. Since when Sera monastery had 6000 monks? Maybe few hundreds years ago, but Sera monastery’s actual monk population had been on a rapid declining rail since Chinese occupation.
There is also one part where the author talked about having police check points everywhere, which to some extend is true but I can definitively tell you it’s not set there to stop or harass Law Abiding Tibetans. If you have ever been to Lhasa or any other heavily Tibetan populated regions, you will find an answer for why there are more polices everywhere. It’s because we Tibetans tend to use our Yak-meat feed brawny more than our intellectual brainy. I am not saying we Tibetans are uncivilized or ruthless as Chinese portrays, all I am trying to say here is we tend to act before we think of the consequences. It’s a common place in Lhasa where young and sometimes even old Tibetans get extremely intoxicated and get into often fatal brawls. It’s commonly known that Khampa are people not to be messed with, because people had seen from time to time that Khampa people stroll around Bharkor brandishing sharp swords looking for problems. There is legendary stories like people running for help with their intestines in their hands. Old Achalas circumambulating Jokhang had notoriously became easy targets for petty thieves and people to bully around. If these kinds of disgusting occurrences can be stopped, I don’t mind having police forces bugging around.
P.S: I know lot of people will find this offensive and indigestible, but sometimes facts are facts, you need to face it at some point. Please Let me help you with my identity, I am 100% tibetan, you don’t have to worry about me being a chinese spy or an informant. I love Tibet and concern about Tibetan as much as any of you do.
Jamyang, isnt criminality and some hooligans present in every country? there s a stretch between regular police and tanks/swat…but we all know the impulsiveness of some tibs.Btw, in kham there are wise ppl too no?
I don’t think “Khampas with daggers” are the issue except maybe in the next Shaw Brothers Studio movie, no offense.
According, again, to Chinese scholar Bao Dong, 2007:
“The crime rate has risen steadily along with the increase in the floating population. According to the Lhasa Public Security Bureau, the number of crimes and the cleverness of the criminals have increased considerably since Lhasa’s link to the Qinghai-Tibet railway opened on July 1, 2006…Most of [the floating population] fall in the category of drifters who “have no legal documentation, no legitimate job, and no legitimate residence,” criminals, pimps and prostitutes, drug dealers and thieves…”
From UNPO: Ma Rong from Beijing University pointed out as early as 2003 that the trend of using migrant labor within centrally managed development strategies in the western regions of the PRC including Tibet, coupled with neglecting to provide adequate education and training opportunities for local people created the risk of serious ethnic tensions.
“Ethnic tension” does not refer to Tibetans from different regions fighting each other; it refers to tension between Tibetans and Chinese. The “floating population” is Chinese and regardless of any existing Tibetan crime, the drastic increase in crime is Chinese in origin, even by Chinese researchers’ own admission.
Dorji la, I think this Jamyang guy is another Chinese fenqing, trying to pass himself of as a concerned Tibetan. He can easily prove that he is not. He should just post his telephone number and I will call him to see if he can speak Tibetan.
“The Nazi justification for the ghettos in the first place, and then the ensuing brutality against the already impoverished ghetto inhabitants, was the idea of Jews as a dangerous and polluting people who were locked up in ghettos for the good of Germans and indeed the good of the world.” (Adam Beach, Yallah Handala)
Just change the names, and you have what’s happening in Lhasa at this very second.
Would a Tibetan call Lhasa a “heavily Tibetan populated region?”
Losar Tashi Delek Jamyangla! collaborators have been found in every occupied country..
I’m sorry to disappoint you who think that I am a Cinese spy. I am not. Nga bod ba yin!!! I was simply trying to say that exaggeration does not help our cause, and as an example gave facts, that my relatives who are from Lhasa and who are definitely no Chinese friends have come back safely and are continuing their normal life in Lhasa.
I am sorry that some of you, brothers and sisters, so easily fall into the trap of blind doubt. My uncle, who is a nobleman and went through pretty tough times in the past, and whose son is a political prisoner from 1989, cannot be called a Chinese! My family had in their way contributed to the Tibetan cause through the years, and this what I have to read from you who sit behind your computer and point fingers so readily and in haste?
For the Tibetan cause to be strong, we need to be united, trusting of each other, and most importantly, be educated and stick to facts because only then can we be indisputable.
Tashi delek to you All.
But Kalsang are you seriously suggesting the incredible massing of armed security forces in Lhasa is just the normal level, for normal everyday petty crime?
There are just too many reports of massive security pouring into Lhasa in the last few weeks. Today is Feb 22 and soon it will be March 10. Forgive me but there’s no logical way to believe that Lhasa could possibly be normal right now, with tensions the highest they have been since 2008. Even in a “normal” year, without self-immolations, there would be crazy military presence in Lhasa right now simply because of the dates, let alone on this particular year. Maybe I misunderstood, but are you really saying everything in Lhasa is simply normal at the moment?
u are right Kalsang. Situation is not that bad!
Ha ha, Jamyang.
you may can change your name but not how you write and the way you express. its like your finger print. you cant fool us.
“I am 100% tibetan??” why you say that?
other indication that you are not Tibetan,
“Old Acha la?” umm, where did you learn that?
I will get back to you for #34
For example, this is from a completely different report, dated 22 Feb; it also mentions checkpoints, and doesn’t sound at all like “everyday” police checkpoints. These are just law-abiding Tibetans, like you say, doing nothing wrong, but they were stopped, searched and turned away, not by police, but military:
“A week before the festivities would begin for the celebration of Losar, the Tibetan New Year which fell on Wednesday, Drolma’s family drove into Lhasa from their small hometown for last-minute shopping and to meet with relatives.
As they approached the city, their car was stopped at a checkpoint manned by paramilitary troops. The passengers, all Tibetans, were made to alight. After checks of their identification cards and a thorough screening of their car, they were turned away. The regional capital, they were told, was “out of bounds”, and they’d have to wait until the new year was over to see their family.
“This was the first time that we have seen such security,” said Drolma, whose name has been changed to protect her identity, in an interview. “Every hundred metres, there is a checkpoint, and there are police everywhere. Even visiting temples, we now have to go through ID checks. The tension is very high.”
Jamyang Norbu Lak,
Sorry to disappoint you but I am more of a Tibetan than you are. Can’t believe that you don’t even have a broad enough heart to take a sincere criticism from a 22 year Tibetan college student. I think you are setting a bad example for a lot of young Tibetans who look up to you for inspiration and encouragement. Like I said in my previous comment facts are facts, I have lived there and seen it with my naked eyes, so I have the right to lash it out. Is it too much to say that we Tibetans are not perfect and sometimes we need a leash to get disciplined? I don’t have a phone, can’t afford one since I am few thousands miles away from my home and I am not even allowed to work more than 20 hours per week. We need to be ethical, showing only our bright side and hiding the dark side is against our fundamental principals. We have to accord that we have shortcomings as well and please please don’t say that all China did to Tibet is Torture and killings.
I am actually offended by Jamyang Norbu lak calling me a Chinese Fenqing. If my truth based criticism makes me a Chinese fenqing, yourself must be some kind of devil or even Lang Tharma’s incarnation or Shugden follower for lashing out against Dalai Lama and completely disavowing Samdong Rinpoche despite the fact that erudite personal like Samdong Rinpoche is as hard to find in our community as a needle in the hay. You might be able to assemble few words better than I do, but you definitely do not deserve the reverence a lot of Tibetans give to you. A pathological liar is who you are for claiming that you have been through the thick and thin part of Tibetan history is complete white lie.
Just send a link of your report to Avaaz. They have permanent campain for Tibet. Hoping it’ll be of some help. I feel deeply, deeply sorry for this destruction of Tibetan people and Tibet by the chineese oppressor. Would like to help more, but don’t know how to, really…
But Jamyang you’re saying the “checkpoints” in Lhasa are simply to guard against Lhasa Tibetans having fistfights or Khampas with daggers. What am I supposed to think after a statement like that??
Where we begun and whete we ended up!
My post didn’t even begin to address all that is happening and that is wrong inside Tibet. But ok, since some of you consider everything in the bulk – i will tell you that the situation in Tibet is BAD, Dorji la, yes! And that ain’t no exaggeration. Having myself crossed the border into Nepal in late 2008, I can tell you that army presence had been on permanent standby since 3.14. That’s a fact. That people had been systematically arrested and disappearing since then is also a fact. That in some parts of Tibet such, mostly the Eastern parts, people never got a break since 1950. That’s a fact. That monks have been sent back home from Sera snd Drepung and Ganden since 2008, reducing the total population in these monasteries to just several hundred is a damn fact, too!
But all of the above, coupled with the immedurable suffering Tibetans INSIDE Tibet have to go through every day, does not give us the space to so off handedly ostricize and humiliate each other, for that is empowering the Chinese. Now more than ever we need to be strict in what we say and how we say it for it is my belief that truth in the end wins. Sometimes facts are not as sensational as somewhere in us we’d like them to be, but they are still facts.
Also, to keep writing how powerless Tibetans inside Tibet are just through word of mouth is not rendering justice to the power of Tibetan endurance.
In any case, going back to where I had started, my point was that we need be weary of hearsay “facts” before we decide to report them to the world and incite panic.
I respect being wary of hearsay, I really truly do.
But you know, if you add up all the reports coming out right now, it’s kind of like worrying about whether the entire house is on fire or just the roof, you know?
Tibet needs immediate help, right now, without question. The best thing that could happen right now is for the world to panic and help Tibet.
No need to panic. BUT to take a clear stand for human, religious, economic and political rights – for Tibet! would be a great start.
Jamyang, you 22 year old college idiot, the report was written by an eye witness, not Janyang Norbu. If there is exaggeration in the report, it does not compare to what China is doing in Tibet. And speaking of comparing, 22 of your type don’t come near what JN has accomplished and sacrificed for the cause. At most, you’ve gone on a few rallies.
China has robbed my home, taken over it, killed my family members and FUCK I want them out!!! If your family is fine than good for you but don’t tell me to calm down.
Kalsang, you are unbelievable! My house is on fire and you are telling me not to panic! You say “No need to panic. BUT to take a clear stand for human, religious, economic and political rights – for Tibet! would be a great start.” what the fuck do you think we’ve been doing for the past 53 years! Tibetans in Tibet has already started it and least we in exile can do is support them!
Kalsang, I have to say, crossing the border into Nepal in late 2008 is pretty amazing. No offense, again, but how on earth were you able to do that?
Also, usually Chinese call it 3.14, very few others.
I’m fully prepared to be completely wrong, and discover you are completely 100% Tibetan, but you can’t be surprised if someone asks you, give the above facts.
If I myself said those things, using very good English, that I crossed the border from Tibet to Nepal in late 2008, as well as referring to what happened in Tibet as “3.14,” I would expect people to ask me flat out if I were Chinese. It doesn’t mean you’re Chinese, but it does mean you shouldn’t be offended if people ask you that.
Also, your spelling is not from India.
@ Jamyang rinpoche, CE’s yangsi
Chankhi lugPha khonpa proof #1 you are saying you are more concerned about the number of Sera monks population mention in the article then what is really happening inside Tibet. (right from the beginning, carefully twisting)
Proof # 2 “Since when Sera monastery had 6000 monks?” This question by 22 years old Tibetan college student? (you got caught red handed right here) don’t tell me you are Dralog.
Proof # 3 “Tibetans tend to use our Yak-meat feed brawny more than our intellectual brainy.”
In another word, you Tibetan are Stupid, dumb, low IQ. (Sounds very familiar. Can’t hold your tongue there, do you? Remember, you are jamyang Now)
Proof # 4 “It’s a common place in Lhasa where young and sometimes even old Tibetans get extremely intoxicated and get into often fatal brawls.”.
Are you saying that that’s why in lhasa Tibetans live in area which is now almost entirely enclosed by military compounds with walls between 10-16 feet; some with barbed wire. Which is now looks like Warsaw Ghetto. Armed soldier, SWAT, military drill.
( Do you digest this ?)
Again in your post # 46 “Lang Tharma “??sounds very Chinese. We don’t write like this and I am not going to tell you just for the sake of fun. I told you, you have funny accent.
Give us one or two example of Jamyang norbu la’s (not laK’s) lashing against HHDL and S lama.
I want to know how much you 22yrs old young Tibetan knows about him.
Sheila ji, whats “3.14” kelsang talking about?
I am lost some were there.
3.14 is how Chinese (government officials or hirelings especially) refer to the uprisings in 2008.
It was an attempt by the Party to make what happened sound like “9/11,” as if it were some national tragedy against Chinese people.
“Kalsang” and “Jamyang”,
it is very simple. Create an anonymous skype account, post it in the mail field or as comment. And propose to Jamyang Norbu a time you will be available for a call in comment text field or website text field. As pointed by others here, there are way too suspicious things in your comments both in the form and the content. The blog is on watch by prolly dozens of chinks on ccp intelligence payroll, so prove you are not 2 of them. Saying like you that “yes it is bad tibetans are disappearing and being killed, but please don t be drama queens” is qualifying you as chinese until contrary is proven.
I cannot believe the extent of paranoia you are suffering from.
Sheila, for you to imply that it was impossible to cross in 2008 clearly means that you are quite ignorant of reality in the Tibetan world. Please, I invite you to pau a visit to Dharamsala and ask around who came and when… Gosh! You’ll be surprised how many “Chinese” crossed the border in 2008!!!
Secondly, Sheila, “3.14” is how March 14 was known. I didnt know of this interpretation you gave of what it means. We used it to find information about the uprising back.
If you think my words not strong enough or not nationalistic enough, then so be it. My point failed to reach your minds and I can understand that. And i would like to ask Dorji, are you the censorship authority on what is and what isn’t Tibetan and what is and what is not allowed to be said? Are you actually an advocator of freedom of speech?
do you know sportswear brand “Nike”‘s motto? Just do it 🙂
If you come from Tibet, you are accustomed to spies and would fully understand the concern.
speaking of Dhasa, when u come up to McLeod Ganj and after you go through the main street, what particular interesting places can u find when u take half an hour walk to the right, and half an hour walk to the left? It s not about freedom of speech! it s about being sure who s talking.
when the house is on fire, precisely then, you must keep control so that you can act effectively. Panic is what makes one lose control and do irrational things. Instead of attacking people with a different angle on cyber, come out and show your courage in real life!
And one last thing: i don’t know about you but to me occupation of Tibet by PLA started in 1949, and so i would count 63 years, not 53. And NO, we have not been campaigning for Tibet since then in the same way. Unitedness is what we needed then and what is starting to happen now. Open mindedness is yet to follow and i hope it does.
“half an hour to the right and half an hour to the left”??? Are you talking about Jogiwara Road, Tipa road, Baksu Road or Zuklakhang road? There is no simple left and right in Dhasa.
But honestly i dont see where u have seen panic here..we are just talking and reflecting about how to assist and support ppl inside. This article is not sensationalist in my opinion and in the expressed comments of TE, Jamyangla, Sheila and other posters beside you. The concerns and threats remain the same whether a part of Kalachakra attendees could go home without harassment from chinese as opposed to none.
I think we are all in good composure and none of us seem ready to break down. On the contrary, for every immolation, i think most of us get stronger in our determination, focus, and will. Which is why the immolations were not in vain. They have spread a huge energy in the community and in exile too.
Dorji, i believe it was not me who got hung up on the word “panic” if you just look back at the comments made, and it was not me who started a whole rant about “chinese spy” presence here…
In any case, yours and my comments here are useless. We don’t make people’s lives inside Tibet any better.
Last, i want to say a funny thing about history and repetition, you fill in the rest: once, Gedun Chophel’s difference was also seen as treason, spying, subversion and what not paranoid else. And only recently was he venerated as a hero. Think about that. (this is a poing about our community, not a personal one, please)
if we are commenting only, then agree it is useless. If we exchange ideas AND acting on the side, it is not useless in my opinion. first, exchanging ideas can be enlightning. None of us is omniscient and finding solutions to climb a huge slippery wall is not easy.
Second, it entertains our focus just by staying “connected”. I can tell you in europe there are some tibs that are totally disconnected to the cause except for vague folkloric filiation. So if the mind is not even to it, don t expect actions to pop up. Every action comes up first from a mind ignition no?
Third, we do need information to assess the situation and know where to put our thoughts and problem solving.
Because of the current situation and chinese increasing repression, i m thinking that we will probably see a very significant increase in refugees in the coming year/months. TGIE will need our resources, physical, financial and intellectual to take care of all children that will come to India. My actions are and will be dedicated to that.
About Gedun Chophel. It is funny/ironic you talk about him. I think Jamyang Norbu la is a very personification of Gedun Chophel’s free thinking and intellectual productivity.
Anyway, we fundamentally agree so no need to go on with rants about panic inciting. Have a good day
have a good day too 🙂
In the harsh times of Nazi Occupied France, the very real danger of traitors was also present. People accepted this reality even though it was very offensive. But they knew that for the survival of their nation, precautions had to be taken. Offending someone by making them prove their identity was not only expected, it was seen as vital. An unfortunate but life-saving ritual that everyone agreed was necessary.
Some treachery came from Germans posing as French, and some came from young French people turning on their own people in exchange for money or protection or due to their family being threatened or just because they were too young and had no moral compass.
Suspicion sucks but we can’t get hung up on the fact that sadly it is necessary. Their is no shame in it, on either side; if someone suspects me then I will willingly and eagerly try to prove where I stand. There’s no time to worry about ruffled feathers in times like these. We should accept suspicion as a badge of pride, knowing we’re doing what it takes to protect our friends and families by being thorough and careful.
@69 Absolutely…..especially when Phayul forum has been down for a while.
kalsang, are you worried for lobsang sangay’s administration? seems like that otherwise makes no sense to me waht you ranting about. Please, you calm down.
Why is every body clinging to the number crunch so much missing the focal points.The fact is,that Hans in number are acceding Tibetan ethnic in most part of where majority should have been Tibetan population.
The point here is that China allowed all those Tibetan brothers and sisters to attend the Kalachakra only sieve out those who they think are threat to Hu/Xi clique.Except to the numbers all the rest of the story is not far from the truth.
Our conversations should be that of constructive and uniting one,rather than dividing.Let us put our energy where it’s needed.
Ours is a very trying period.Let us be with each other,and not at each other.I think Jamyang Norbu la was crystal clear about the story that he wrote it as it came to him,and it needs to be tested and researched for authenticity,for he said,he has written it as it came to him.What more can he do?From what I know of Jamyang Norbu la,he is not just sitting there after putting this story out there for us.Nor should we.So let us all try to get along in-spite of our differences.Can we?
But I have huge respect to each and every one who spent time to write a comment or TWO.You and I did our bits.We all can try,but can not be on the same page all the time,all day,all week,and all year.My yes is your no.But at the end of the day;we are all Tibetans/Tibetan supporters who care for that kingdom and its people in the Himalayas.”OUR GOAL IS BODH RANG-ZEN!!!”ALL THE WAY !!!
Well said Tibet for Tibetans. It’ OK to disagree even if we all fight for the same cause. Most important is to stay on track in our struggle and be united.
Tibet for Tibetans and all Tsampa Eaters,
“Ours is a very trying period. Let us be with each other,and not at each other.”
Never have truer words been spoken!!!
Now is the time!
yes, united we should stand. but please no preaching of the same old mainstream tib politcal rhetoric. for now at least. show some respect.
Jamyang la, we need yours moderation now and then. otherwise this blog is becoming weird place to spitt around undigested stuff. Freedom of expression should go hand in hand with the content and responsability it carries. Freedom is not a boat drifting without any direction in an ocean rather it is taking your rudder firmly and sailing toward where you want to reach.
I was surprised when Thubten Samdup in a speech in London said ” our struggle will never be violent “.
Regardless of our views on violence and its ugly effect, it is inevitable,we would be foolish to think otherwise.
Dharamsala and China have become too predictable.
No offence to all of the above who have posted their own views and comments but i think the point of this article is to create awareness of what is actually going on in Tibet and i think the writer has managed to do it so stop arguing and quarreling and finding faults with each others comments. While we sit comfortably in our homes and use the net and argue about all petty things you are forgetting that those Tibetans left behind to face the horrible music are going through the worst of all situations. If you guys could only show a little more concern over those matters and share this article so as to let more and more people know about the horror those left behind are facing rather than sit on your butts comfortably and argue like little kids.
Work together not against each other!
Please stop being a ‘Ghendak lak’ and stop discussing on ‘yarap sharap’ shit.
JN must have thought by sharing this information may lead to new strategic movement against the CCP or create whatever that might help those inside Tibet. lets focus on what should be done from outside Tibet that can hit the stomach of CCP.
I heartily agree with some of the current discussions on international tribunals for Chinese criminals.
As far as I know there has never been a Chinese prosecuted for any crime against a Tibetan since 1949 (I could be wrong, but I’ve never heard of one). How many Chinese citizens are guilty of murdering a Tibetan? It’s true what’s being said–we often talk about how many Tibetans have been killed, but how many Chinese citizens have been, and are, murderers? Not in some overwrought emotional sense, but simple legal definition?
I agree with those invoking the Nuremberg Trials, that an international tribunal could be set up to prosecute these murders. There is simply no reason accountability cannot be at least attempted. Even if it’s just a few, some times a few means a lot. The reality though is that there are likely thousands of murderers, all of whom have gone completely free, without trial and without consequence of any kind.
The Jewish people did (and are still doing) an incredible job of tracking down wartime murderers, no matter how old the crime.
It seems like there’s no hope of international intervention in any physical sense, for Tibet. But maybe there could be in a legal sense, in an individual sense. Not, “You, China, will be held responsible,” but, “You, a world citizen who happens to be Chinese will be held responsible.”
I notice in the Phayul reports people doing a very clear job of getting names, dates, exact details; couldn’t we strive for names also of the perpetrators? What if an atmosphere of personal accountability started to be created–even just the fear that your personal name might get out on the internet as being a murderer? Maybe it’s naive, but why should someone be allowed to murder anonymously?
Ironically, the CCP is the one pushing for “Real Name” identification. Maybe they should get their wish.
I shouldn’t have said there’s no hope for physical intervention–I meant it more like, while waiting endlessly for this, other things could be tried.
Also, what about prosecuting theft?
Found the following from Michael J. Bazyler and William Elperin:
“The Holocaust was not only the greatest murder, but also the greatest theft in the history of mankind. It is estimated that Jewish losses (in present value) exceeded $230 billion dollars. Now that the Swiss banks have agreed to pay $1.25 billion to Holocaust victims, the largest settlement of a human rights case in the United States, attention has turned to obtaining restitution for other atrocities and economic crimes committed during World War II.”
What would the Tibetan losses for the past 60 years be, from simple personal theft to theft of religious artifacts and land?
Even if China claims ownership of Tibet, it has to account for personal and institutional thefts–in fact, all the more so if it claims ownership.
@ wellwisher, your username says it all.
Please, please, please, don’t say such a thing like “sitting comfortably on your butt and argue about all patty things.”
Let me remind you this, sitting comfortably and doing this, is the one among many threats which our enemy takes very serious. Does ‘golden shield project ’, rings any bell? Also referred to as Great firewall of china.
Quite often I had notice similar comment as yours (don’t sit, do something. Be each-other, not at each-other, and so on) which is very old fashion mentality. I understand you guys meant well, but your ideas were very wrong. These little advices (Lab-cha) were the great fire wall, used by our old feudal society, now that our parents and grandparents are completely illiteracy. You have to know that in our society there are many wrong Ideas perceived as lab-cha which we inherited from old society. Let me give you an one good example, in Tibetan( Joen-ya may-pay, Kha gyak pa) just big mouth but incapable. The word which still torment me some time since I was little kid. Which makes me hesitate to do or say anything? I hate this word,(kah gyak-pa) it completely shut you off from speaking. He or she regardless of experiences, age gender and capability, is ( kha gyak-pa) because there is something going on inside his/her head dispite size of it. And society needs that to come out of that head for greater progress. That’s why freedom of express is important. There are many lap-cha like this that stops our society from moving forward.
Please don’t discourage us from having different ideas expressing here. This doesn’t mean we are not united. Our goal is the same which united us and having good debate with civility is healthy and progress toward our goal.
We have to have ‘clean and open free space’ in our society to speak up or out, lOUDLY. Without judging, regardless of what he/her is saying. Comparatively we had made much progress but still we have long way to go.
And everything starts from inside our head and has to come out from the hole that is below our nose. Once it is out on a table you can chose pick which you like but don’t destroy which you don’t like. Other whys, good things will stop coming out of that hole below the nose.
I’m sorry if that offended you by sitting comfortably i meant that we’re living comfortably in our homes and have the luxury to express our sentiments over the net – arguing accusing mostly – (if u’ve read the above comments), while those people who actually stayed behind in tibet are facing an ordeal -blog-. i only just wanted to remind those above that while Jamyangla has tried to create awareness of the situation in tibet we should help spread this article to as much people as we can. Yes freedom of expression is mandatory but we shouldn’t forget that it all starts with creating awareness. so all im saying is that instead of accusing each other and trying to prove facts wrong why not work together. I’m not inciting you or anybody for that matter to take immediate action please understand that the more people know about these recent events the more people will unite to help see through that tibet will be a free country.
Have a good day!:)
Ghang-tug la,I am rather confused with what you have said.On the one hand you spoke highly of freedom of expression/speech,within the same breath you have strongly objected to what some of us had to say.Don’t you sound little like “my way,or the high way”.But thank you 4 being an active participant in the discussion.
One thing is of vital importance here.That is,in Tibet,our brothers and sisters are being squashed between military and Han civilians without any decent humanly respect of any degree.That’s the theme of this article Jamyang la has put before us.I think on average that is pretty much what exactly is going on in Tibet regardless.Our brothers and sisters in Tibet are being driven to the wall by the Beijing dictators.
So how are we going to take this story forward so the world notices and Chinese leaders acknowledge that the problem in Tibet is real,and needs to be addressed by the Chinese government with honesty and sincerity.For example,very recently,Tibetan protesters have done an amazing protest in Muscatine Iowa when Xi Jinping revisited the family he stayed with the first time he visited U.S as junior official to study about pigs’ farming.
The group of about 16 Tibetan protesters led by Jigme Ugyen la from Minnesota, did an absolutely an amazing job of addressing Tibetan case in that village.They were vocal,they were intelligent and to the point,they were creative and spontaneous over flowing all at the same time.That group was simply a poetry.
So how are we going to improve our way of reaching to the world with the story Jamyang la has given us.That as the subject of our focal point,we need to be creative to take this story forward to the world.Just like the one they did in Muscatine Iowa.Or even better.
I can confirm that after my daughter’s fiance’s father and uncle attended the Kalachakra and returned to Lhasa they had their passorts inspected and have now been in jail, not knowing where, for the past two weeks.
i think Gang-Tuk made very good points..diversity of opinions within same goal can only enrich. there are many angles from.which to fight..
Our stands should be against Chinese be it communist or otherwise. They are there to grab our land and butcher our people be it RED or Republican.
The goal should be Rangzen as it can only bring respect for Tibet and Tibetans.
The middle-way is nothing but ploy used by Deng and his gang to fool us by making us believing that something is going to come out of lobsided talk.
Its high time that TGIE should failure of past 3 decades fruitless talk. In the mean time Chinese keep on flocking to Tibet like a LOCUST.
Wellwisher la T&T la,
Argument, quarrelling?? I prefer the word, commenting, discussing or debating but even so, if it is a quarreling, so be it. I strongly believe and wish we should have this kind of “argument” or debate, not just from behind computer but in public, town hall meeting style, every week, in every Tibetan community. Right now we are in lacking of these kinds of events. Even if there are one or two in a year, most of people don’t have confident to speak, and even if they do, they lack the erudition or sophistication because the trend or craze for hot debate in daily basis has never been encourage enough. Honestly, I yearn for these topics to discus instead of gossiping around the coffee house or at friend’s house party. For some reason people don’t want to talk and instead they label you as, Mr politic or ( kha chik po re) Just lip service.
That’s why I am bit offended when you said “sitting comfortably and typing keyboard”(not aim at me particularly) but it is very discouraging comment. We should restrain comment like this, not just from saying but even from our thought processes. I believe these views are heedless influence from the old feudalist Tibet to our today’s minds of society.
I believe every Tibetan are doing something in the best of their ability and plus, sitting in front of computer, EVERY DAY. Thank kunchok for the technology and thank JN la for this blog.
T&T la, all I am saying is, it is ok to have different ideas or opinion. That does not mean we are not united. We can be at each-other by being each-other. Don’t you agree??
I was never high way or my ways. I don’t know how you got this from my comment but if you are talking about my objection on, Wellwisher’s Labcha. Then yes, I am very much against of these naïve views. It’s a huge drawback in our society. I believe JN la is a living witness.
That’s the only reason I commented here, other whys I hardly do write a comment here. Unless, if I smell some unwelcome visitor whose intention is somewhat questionable. But, I do read most of the comments and I enjoy it very much. it is very interesting to see the verity of thoughts and expression, style of writing, temperament and freedom. As Kalsang’s fuming respond kept my amaze when she or he was accused of spy, but Shila’s sophistication and eloquent answer, and Dorji’s sarcastic wit had settle matter in peace. Some even types in Tibetan ( bhoe yig), some ask for apology for their poor English but enthuse over expressing their thoughts. These are progress in our society and we should embrace and encourage rather than judging.
kha gyakpa has been indeed a great hinderance in conservative tib societety. 30 years ago ppl.like JN got shit. from conservative.ppl. now we need be effective.
Understandably, Elliot Sperling (#31) and Jamyang’s (#34) comment will not go down well here, but truth is what matters most, because Tibetans have chosen the path to fight for “truth” (and not to play a political game)to Free Tibet. The government logo with “bod gshung gaden potrang chogley namgyal” was repalced by the one with “Denpa nyid gyal gyur chig”. “Only the truth triumps” is what it says.
If #31 and #34 has a slightest of truth in what they are trying to say, then author of this letter must revise his/her letter once again and see if “truth” and nothing else than “truth” prevails in his/her letter.
To Ghang-Tuk la,points well noted.I think basically you and i are more or less touching the same topic,how to get along in spite of the differences of our opinions and I totally can agree with you there.I take interest in critical thinkers.And you do a good job of it.Please continue writing.Don’t let any body discourage us.
To those who say sitting by the computer from a comfort zone and writing is easy,I encourage you’ll do the same.It won’t hurt.
We’ll sit by the computer and challenge our enemy,we’ll scream in the streets of the planet earth,we’ll write letters,we’ll make small,small donations,or beg for donations…at the end of it all “OUR GOAL IS ONE AND ONLY ONE!!!TIBETAN INDEPENDENCE!!! Power of running Tibet from cleaning streets to ruling by holding the highest presidential post of the nation…all have to be us and not the yellow people from the East.
Thank you Ghang-Tug la for your kind comments.I can take good heat from concerned fellow Tibetans without adding a pinch of salt so to say.After all our one of the common heroes is non other than Jamyang Norbu-la.Follow the best there is and you can’t go too wrong.”BODH RANG ZEN “!!!
To those who are worried about people calling them Kha Gakpa and thereby feel ostracized, please know that one Kha Gakpa is the Kalon Tripa of Tibet right now. So, apparently, Kha Gakpa is considered a virtue in Tibetan society and need not feel so traumatized by the experience. One day, you too can become Kalon Tripa if more experience in this field is galvanized and nurtured with an academic degree.
Sheila, i think you raised interesting point about the (apparently) not so exploited lawsuit angle. The thing in law is that you have to have tangible proofs. Witnessing only is difficult to use for judges, for obvious reasons.
We could exploit that and gather all material proofs in that perspective. For example the video footages AND witnessing (danish/hungarians alpinists if i m correct) of that 17 y old nun shot in nangpa pass. And see if we can build crime against humanity cases out of all strong material proofs.
I went through all the comments all over again.Call me crazy if you want. It’s amazing.I saw nothing that was not worth spending time for and follow the entire discussion on this webpage.
With the starting of Kalsang’s opinions, causing some doubts amongst us to eventually turning and boiling it all down to understanding (not necessarily agreeing every thing with each other) but respecting each others’ thoughts,opinions,and ideas about serving our country and its beloved brothers and sisters…was like we all coming from different directions of the world entering the same gate way to receive His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s blessings in Dharamsala.Our land mark was one and the same.”TIBET”.
One thing we all need to keep in mind is..try not to make some one look less.It only reflects ones own (how much…?)you know?There are many well informed educated who can’t do too well in English.We are discouraging them.It becomes our loss as well.We would be depriving ourselves of that learning opportunity.Take this as an advise if you will.Let us all have the chance to express for we all matter in this battle for “TIBETAN INDEPENDENCE”. BODH GYALLO !!!
As some one rightly pointed out Jamyang Norbu la as today’s Amdo Gaydun Chophel.This couldn’t be further from the truth.I totally agree.
Thus my hats off to Jamyang Norbu la with a thank you,as always !
I question myself on why i keep doing things that does not provide me the result i wanted out of the time,energy and sacrifices invested. My grandparents i call them leypa-janku,but then i am also leypa-janku by definition repeting the same things that gets me nowhere. Why couldn’t i diversify my energy,time and resources between alternate methods, not just the feel-good well intended non-violence method. There could be a Semi-non-violence as an althernate method to atleast breakeven. We are afterall human dealing with human.
I like to share few thoughts of mine that keeps pounding inside my head for several days: At work, at lunch, in bed and everywhere. I hope some NGO leaders and organizer are reading this blog and comments.
Now March tenth is near and hopefully I am not too late to share this, it is rather of an opinion. I think we should change the way we protest. I am bit tired of doing the same things, every year for almost half of my life. Same route to Chinese embassy and then city hall, same slogan as, “what do we want? Free Tibet. UNO we want justice”. My mother, in her 80’s does now almost speak English. Lol
Keep in mind, why we do protest? Is to get people’s attention, or to listen our call. Now by doing same thing as we do every year, long line with lots of flag and banner is not interesting and not worth a minute for those pedestrian, not even to an ambler. We get few honks here and there from the car passing by with “free Tibet” bumper sticker on it. That’s it.
We have to come up with new creative ideas, more dramatic, attractive that gets attention from pedestrian. Tenzing Tsundu la’s laughing protest in Australia is a good start and I have seen fire dance protest which is also very moving.
I was thinking about of huge line in full stretch prostration (kyang tsa) on street. If not the whole line then at least 22 people doing Kyang tsa, which represent 22 self immolation and rest has to be in line and take turn and off course with banner and flags too.
Now, one very crucial and very essential character has to be present, person with loud speaker, his or her job is not to lead and shout slogan. His/ her job is the announcement or revelation or exposing what is happening in Tibet and convince what they (pedestrian) can do to help. This can be done while the line is moving and doing kyang tsa. The protester would be chanting OM ne ped me hung with melody instead of regular slogan.
If the line is very long then there should be two or three person with the mic. The mic has to be good quality one(not the screecher) and the announcer should be fluent with the language, eloquent with sense of rage within the sprit is must and has to show it.
The whole Idea is, Chanting Om ma ne, with melody and Kyang tsa will bring the attention and curiosity while we have their attention we have their ear too. “Announcement “. It has to be perfectly choreograph.
The announcement is vital part of this rally. “The Word” is very powerful tool as you all know. Kings and general had use words to convinced army to fight to the death. Mao and Hitler had used the words. Buddha and Jesus had used it. So think of it, how powerful it is. The trick is how to use it. When you explain the situation of Tibet. Don’t leave it there, as you are telling a story. you have to tell why it is happening and what they can do and why they should do it.
I can think of few things to say, particularly on boycotting china made. I know we have tried for many years but still not very convincing. We can do more rigorously and passionately.
We can say like, “We know you want to help and do something but don’t know what to do. Here is the thing you can do. It I very simple . you don’t have to go to china or fight or hate them. JUST DO NOT BUY CHINA MADE. It is cheap shitty product any way. Buy your own home made products. It may cost you bit more but it is worth it. keep your money at home. On the other hand, BUYING CHINA MADE IS SAME AS BUYING A ROPE TO HANG YOURSELF” then listener will be curious about the meaning behind, then you explain, “That’s how they grow the power of economy, with power of money, they buy the best weapon. With these weapons they want to become world super power. “ Now question them. “ do you want China to became world super power?? Who has worst human right record in the world. Who is communist dictator and rule their nation with guns and thugs.” Give an example of what’s happening in china and Tibet, there are many as you know.
These are some of my thoughts as an example, I am not sure how persuasive it is, but I believe simple English with strong apprehensive message will do the trick. Now it all has to be well choreograph.
Folks here, and the web master, please forgive me if it is bit long. It’s just that I feel like to share this.
And also, if I confuse you with my poor English. Please feel free to ask, I will try my best to rectify.
Ghang-Tuk la:First of all your comment on your 80 old mother almost learned to speak English is cute and funny at the same time.I can’t stop giggling even as I write this comment.So thank you for that happy dose of laughter you so funnily pushed in the comment.
I think your English is very clear.No one should have any problem understanding it.Your suggestions are great.I do hope some one would use some of the tools you’ve provided.Keep up the good work.
Why not spending a little energy in writing on chinese blogs or chinese-read blogs?
in 2008 during olympics i spent my free time debating with mainland chinks and trying to show them what they did not see or yet understand.
I can tell you that at first they were in mental self defense, but once you bring facts and make them turn the tables, and address their own intelligence, many of them actually put their first assumptions in questions. Most of them know their government is lying to them on many subjects.
Viral spreading of conscience through internet is not useless. How did Facebook spread so fast? Viral. And so it goes for many buzz stuffs, information, jokes, marketing, etc. It s called viral networking/marketing/spreading, because it spreads like a virus, that is, very fast.
If we are 10 000 thousands informing mainland chinks of the tragedy their country is doing to TIbet on such medias, then we can have a viral effect, which wont resolve the pb alone of course, but which will Help reaching possibly millions and millions of chinks. That can help accelerate public opinion shift. Can help bettter the perceptions of chinks of tibetans in PRC controlled zones. It must be constructive info and debate (not insults like we/i exchanged with this provocative dickhead coming here regularly). On way to do it by staying protected is going trhough internet proxys to protect ur location and private infos. (www.proxy.org)
The “Chinese dissidents” seem to support Tibetan hunger strikers at the UN complex in New York. This is a positive sign.
Those Chinese seem to demand “democracy” to replace the existing “communism”, expressing their choice of system that would rule China. Tibetans demand “genuine autonomy” to replace the existing “autonomy”. And the Uighurs in the North (at least quite many of them) also appear to be unhappy and are demanding something.
All in all, these people are not happy with the existing system that concerns the nation as a whole as well as region wise.
These “unhappy” people may very well form into a strong unified entity, and start working together as the “representative” of all the “unhappy” people of the PRC.
Since “union is strength”, this kind of joint effort may bring better and faster result either to topple the existing regime or to bring about some positive change that could bring “happiness” back on their faces.
Of course, there is a group of Tibetans who demand nothing less than An Independent Nation State of Tibet. And that is altogether a different movement, and the members must continue to fight the way they have been doing. For them the question is not “happy” or “unhappy”, but that of “a sovereign state”, for as long as Tibet is not a sovereign state, the fight must continue.
And now, as to a different mode of this year’s 10/3 protest (#97), all those three groups of “unhappy” ones may get together and display a massive protest the world has ever witnessed, sending a clear message to whomsoever is concerned that We Can.
Dorji la, Thank you!
Your approach is noble and compassionate.The result is what i believe will determine if any of the approach is effective or worth the effort.
Now we are talking meaningful stuff.Those who are in the position of making decision of NGO or any Org can take things or two to the drawing board.
thank you, but it s not about noble and compassionate so much. do you think we will get improvements without changing the mind of mainland chinese? and their public opinion? (which all governement are wary about). i think that will be difficult.
Dorji, yes, I think it would be really difficult; in the German case, Germany was basically paralyzed and controlled by the winners, so they had control I think over things like keeping the witnesses safe, the witnesses family safe, etc.
But maybe, at least, if some structure starts to be put into place, we can start generating the idea that people are going to start to be looked at for personal responsibility. I think every Chinese knows in their heart that things can change overnight; the government could fall or change at any time. Maybe even the new government itself would hold past people responsible for crimes. Until now, no one would think that would ever apply to Tibetan victims, but you never know.
The Jewish model is a very strong one. It would be really good to get some advice from people who have experience with their system, how they applied it, how they made the trials stick, etc.
From the Jewish Virtual Library, “Prosecuting Nazi War Criminals:”
“First of all, we would not have the kind of evidence that prosecutors the world over are accustomed to have. We wouldn’t have a murder weapon. We wouldn’t have a fingerprint. We wouldn’t even have the corpus delecti, the body. And we were reminded that our best evidence, therefore, was likely to be documents. But do you know what? The typical Nazi crime was not reduced to writing; they did not record the name of each killer of each victim. And in the closing months of the war when the Germans and their acolytes realized that all was lost, they built huge bonfires to destroy the documentation.”
That might be an interesting question – of the mainlanders living in the US and other countries abroad, how many were employed in prison/detention centers where Tibetans were systematically killed or worked to death? They may be right – deportation may be all we could hope for, but it’s better than nothing. At least it’s a consequence, and a message.
Just one more thing and then I’ll stop before I clog this thread too much; but there is a section of US government, formerly called OSI (Office of Special Investigations), now called Human Rights and Special Prosecutions Section. This is the office which assists with finding and deporting Nazi war criminals within the US.
“Where U.S. federal jurisdiction exists, HRSP seeks to prosecute human rights violators under the federal criminal statutes proscribing torture, war crimes, genocide, and recruitment or use of child soldiers. HRSP also utilizes other criminal statutes against human rights violators, such as the laws pertaining to visa fraud and unlawful procurement of naturalization. The Section also prosecutes human rights violators under U.S. civil immigration and naturalization laws in order to revoke U.S. citizenship or other legal status.”
Dorji la, I dont know.If there is a measurable result for the efforts, i certainly will pursue more on that front.
Often i make mistake in my approach to bring about a solution to a problem.Mostly its lack of research on my part on the whole process to resolution.I often design approaches based on my PERCEPTION of what would work rather than investigating the reality of all factors involve during the process to resolution.
In our case,the various approaches we employ, will those really bring results given the ground reality of CCP goals,perception and its strategy.And also of atleast 30% of the billion chinese daily political,social reality.
A Dhokdhok result oriented approach is what i am trying to find.
thank you so much Sheila for that. I ll be looking at requirements for building cases of crime against humanity. I mean, there is so much of that in the 60 last years in Tibet. few countries are as “eligible” for this as Tibet and tibetans.
Daveno la. I m like you and many other thinking that protesting is necessary, and bringing some results, since it embarasses china and bring some spotlight on their actions. But it is clear it is not enough after so many years. I m thinking like you of tangible, visible results. And for that we can look at successes of other oppressed nations, nations that were colonized: India, north Africa, Africa, the jewish people. IN many cases, not all, success came also from the changing of mentality of colonialists(england and India, North Africa and French..).
The aggressivity of some mainland brainwashed chinese is so high, their paranoia regarding tibetan issue is so high… They are in colonialist mindset plus paranoid mindset (some chinks are so feverish, one chink girl from shanghai recently insulted me and all tibetans for 10 minutes although i didnt know her, in europe..and i m pretty sure she never met one tib before). And i see that as the root of the problem. Mass media and information can help us change that, thats what i mean. If Ghandi had Internet and mass media, i think INdia would have got rid of colonialism quicker. We do have those tools. Anyway, that are my conclusions only..
Generally,normal human have the tendency to be on a reactionary mode than proactive.They react specially well when the events had impact on them personally.Given such a behavioural pattern, how would we be able to get that reaction from the billionth.What methods would be practically doable and will be mutually beneficial as a result in the end.
ok, i ll have my last comment for a while as response to yours Daveno la, because as Sheila put it, i am among those who have been clogging on the blog a lot, which is not fair.
We obviously have no magical solution, a button to push that can touch and transform mainland chinese perspective overnight. But that s not why we should disregard this method. And it is not like we have the luxury to bypass this task. Influencing mentality is a process no?, and i m saying only that we can accelerate the change, not change it overnight. As said earlier, i have been trying to find answers to this question you rightly formulate: “how to be effective”?
So far, i have come to the conclusion that reaching mass trough a movie can be something potentially powerful. It s not impossible to do. After all, we do have already 2 blockbusters (but focused on us) and support from influential persons in that industry. Given the concerns about china becoming the first economical power and military big player in the world, it s not that impossible to pitch/argument for such a project. People and supporters with right connections in the US for example could help.
And my second idea has been viral spreading of information as mentionned.
I could do a program that spams hundreds of millions of emails ending in @…cn. I wont do it obviously because i am not entitled to talk in the name of the community, but there are definitely ways to touch the eyes of millions.
Then again, i thought about using proxies: people that the chinese mass see as role models to propagate messages.
This is just an exerpt of possibilities, there are probably many more ways i haven t come up to myself. And it is not excluding all other fighting tools of protests, government lobbying, boycotting, negotiations, lawsuits, etc.
Let s fight from all angles.
and with this i shut my mouth 🙂
Don’t ! I felt good about your work and only good feelings.Exchange of ideas however subtle is always good. You guys are not clogging or overdoing by commenting meaningful stuff.
First of all, thanks Jamyang Norbu lak for the latest updates inside Tibet & keep the flame of freedom in us alive. It’s hard to digest the fact that after 50 years or more of struggle under the CCP rule, we are still biting our teeth not knowing how to confront them either through violence or non violence because we don’t have the necessary man power & resources to topple the evil regime. It’s like Tibet is dying a slow death without a major nation coming forward to help us & we are ever as helpless as before. Now you see, so far 22 people inside Tibet had self immolated for the sake of Tibet and I believe many more will follow, if the current trend inside Tibet continues. And you know so called UNO is keeping mum all the time, while the cunning China is busy broadening it’s shoulders over the territory of India. Now Jamyang lak, what we’re waiting for when Tibetans in Tibet are already reduced to minority in their own backyard & our own government is very cautious and still waiting for the Beijing signal. How many years we have to wait for the land of snow to be free from the iron grip of the barbaric hardliners?
It is a slow suffocating death, aptly called the python in the chandelier (probably meant something else but appropriate here. That is the part middlepather dont’ get. Tibetans in Tibet are forcing the hands of everybody, Beijing, CTA, international communitiy, and individuals to do something about Tibet and Tibetans before it is too late. CTA cannot just hide behind the facade of ‘dialogue’ when it never was a dialogue but more like a berating session. Many people before the Strasborg proposal was implemented had warned Kundun and exile community regarding the duplicity of Chinese policies, quite vehemently even, quoting some of our history with them including the 17 point agreement but to no avail. No heed was paid to these people who actually had lived under CHinese policies and knew the system inside out and instead Kundun decided to adopt the Middleway policy under advicement from foreign advisors, whose allegiance is questionable, and if not the allegiance then perhaps their wisdom. nearly 3 decades into this and numerous facetious overtures, which are mainly show for the international community, we have no progress whatsoever on this front with the so called negotiations. Everybody but the insulated people in Gangkyi can see we have been completely duped and we had given up something for which we got nothing in return. Such a huge mistake of Gargantun proportion.
Why are we still persisting in this? It is time we go back to our original and legitimate claims to independence. At least we will be united with one goal and we will have dignity on our side. We should do everything we can to hurt CHina in anyway we can even if it involves violence. They might have taken our country but they are not going to enjoy it too much.
Ours is a very moving story.Something that went terribly wrong for some of the most wonderful people of this world.I mean,us,Tibetans.Ours is a case of kindness got repaid with blood shed.
I am sure some if not by many have read the book called The Long March by Sun Shuyun.Mao’s idea was never Tibet until by sheer misfortune of the Tibetans that they accidentally landed in Tibet as the long marchers were being chased by the Nationalists at the time.The long marchers stunt to find themselves in a totally different and foreign land in the beginning.
I am copying something straight from the book:The propaganda teams made up songs quickly.Sangluo (a Han Chinese soldier left behind)could still sing one:
Tibetan brothers,arm yourselves quickly and come to your senses.
We (meaning Han Chinese)seek our liberation,and you (Tibetans) fight for your independence.
Life for life,blood for blood.
To safeguard you (Tibet) and the Red Army, let’s wipe out the Nationalists.
The author confirms the truth and authenticity about the above lyrics of the song by later checking its historical document,and she says it was there.
But,unfortunately things changed 360 degree turn,and in 1959,His Holiness accompanied by his well wishers, patriot Tibetan officials and faithful security personals fled to India for the future well being of Tibetan nation and its people.
Once in India,His Holiness,as young as He was,He took care of us all.You young and modern educated,beautiful and handsome smart looking Tibetans born in exile are results of His fatherly care.We can never be ungrateful to Him;not that I am saying any one is.But preventing ahead of possibilities.
The middle-way-path.I too do not agree with.Like many of you,I too believe that,we should have stayed with the way we were meant to.The middle way path offer should have come from Beijing officially on an official paper in an official envelop with full regard and respect;and not by word of mouth.Therefore we can even throw away our proposal tomorrow if we decide.Because Beijing is the one who lied to His Holiness through His Holiness’ brother.It’s gracious of His Holiness that He respected the Chinese officials’ words.Thus His Holiness’ suggestion for the “Middle Way Path”.
Therefore,I think there is no such thing as middle way pathers nor independers.We are all using various methods and ways to get where we need to succeed at the end of it all.I think we should continue to discuss to sharpen our wits and wisdom.
Lhasa is the city where I was born. As a child, it was a city full of lights and prayers, which brings joy and profound spiritual memory. I wonder why the Chinese Leaders still do not recognize Tibetan Culture and way of Life as something Precious and holy,
What is Stopping the Chinese Policies in Tibet from changing to Support the growth of Tibetan Culture, Religion and Language..?????
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What may you suggest about your put up that you made a few days
ago? Any positive?